Cougars On Cam

[Ourea]

Quite the pack


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLDqpDarBSc&pbjreload=10

[Ourea]

If you look in the background you can pick out a 5th cat.
Pretty cool.

[LBM]

Yes very cool, nice to see.

[338win mag]

A pretty good group of hunters there!

[New Bow Hunter]

Them cats aren't looking for mice!!

[northof49]

Wow.....group of hunters is right. Deer, moose, whatever....its going down. Cool post.

[Jagermeister]

Thanks for sharing that with us. That is something that one does not usually see given that cougars are quite solitary animals. A family group, mom and her cubs could amount to four, five would be unlikely. Those all seem to be getting along with one and other, perhaps some juveniles that were pushed off from their moms and have taken up strength in numbers.
The only other time I recall a conglomeration like that was a group of six that were shot out of one old fir tree in the upper part of McLean Creek northeast of OK Falls. That was back in the early '50s. Adam Monk, a game warden at the time, was the shooter. Back then there was a $200 bounty on cougar and game wardens augmented their wages by bounty hunting. That was an exceptional payday for him.

[PYGuy]

Great video thanks for sharing. I personally have seen four in separate trees, Mom and three kittens. Five is like a pack of wolves. You’d think they would need to kill a deer every day or something bigger every couple of days. Any evidence of prior kills in the area?

[dougan]

Chooooot em!!!!

[Ourea]

Mom with three kits and a tom following are my thoughts

[horshur]

Cougar are not solitary by nature..gps collars have proved that.

The 5th cat could be a son of the female or those kits father...she will kill for him or at least he will share in the kill just as the kits do. It is possible she has 4 kits...I have never seen that many traveling like that but three and a Tom I have seen several times...they even scavenged road kill together.
Biggest cat I ever killed was feeding off road kill along with a she and her two kits..the road kill had been dumped by highways. The cats here frequent the dump location. It is the best place to find a track. Especially a transient.

[Ourea]

Thanks for your experienced input horshur

[todbartell]

very cool thanks for sharing

[horshur]

Anther possibility is a older daughter hanging around.

[Ourea]

Lengthy tail on this one


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x94fN69Pijs

[Ourea]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL-JyOJkCno

[Ourea]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXS_kEJkJo8

[Ourea]

Proguide had one of his guys edit up the first video.
Pretty cool.
Thanks Steve!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjgmQUtiqok

[LBM]

Maybe just my computer but the edited version is way to blurry to tell anything do you have a un edited version of the last ones in the open.

[Firstblood]

5 cats is crazy and Ive been wondering lately. A local near kamloops saw 5 grown cougars on the cross country ski trails, hes a life long hunter and outdoorsman and said none of them were little kittens. Is it possible to even have 4 kittens in a year?

[walks with deer]

yup.theres 6 in a pack as of q week ago

[walks with deer]

they are starting to get busted up nicely.

[Ourea]

Maybe just my computer but the edited version is way to blurry to tell anything do you have a un edited version of the last ones in the open.

I will dig up the original

[LBM]

Thanks So much for all you contribute to this site, all this great video that confirms that Bait Sites concentrate Wildlife and increase Predation.
This is some of the best proof that I have ever seen, and will be forwarding it to all the clubs and the head ministry Bio.
I also have video of a pack of wolves above Peachland roaming around another bait site.
Good Stuff.
Where does it show increased predation the only dead animals I have seen posted from his bait sites were human killed.
If any thing may show a healthy ungulate population if the cats are all healthy, kittens probable wont survive if no food.

[LBM]

I will dig up the original
Ya interested if can tell what the cats are, were you able to see any of the tracks that could help.

[rageous]

Thanks So much for all you contribute to this site, all this great video that confirms that Bait Sites concentrate Wildlife and increase Predation.
This is some of the best proof that I have ever seen, and will be forwarding it to all the clubs and the head ministry Bio.
I also have video of a pack of wolves above Peachland roaming around another bait site.
Good Stuff.

Really Al?

[caddisguy]

I'm still waiting for a deer to eat any of the 3 apples I set out by a cam. 3 weeks now and they only walked over them. Some would have you believe such things condense deer from all over the valley and mountains on either side into one spot where they are vulnerable to the packs of cougars and wolves that await the deer which will stand still while the preds munch on them.

Funny I have run 5-7 cameras on salt licks every year for at least 6 years. Amazing I have never come across a kill near the cams. You'd think I'd be knee deep in carcasses by now. I had a coyote sniffing a spot where a bunny was chilling out. I should probably inform the biologists of that too. Definitely some wild imaginations out there.

Maybe we could add an anti-hunting section so members (who are not biologists) could have their own place to converse and criticise lawful hunting activities :)

[bownut]

Really Al?

Oh Ya for real.

[Bugle M In]

OOPS...I think I accidently entered the RainCoast Anti Hunting Society....my bad!
https://i.imgur.com/FZSIp5a.jpg

[Ourea]

Re: Cougars On Cam

http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by bownut http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=2058877#post2058877)
Thanks So much for all you contribute to this site, all this great video that confirms that Bait Sites concentrate Wildlife and increase Predation.
This is some of the best proof that I have ever seen, and will be forwarding it to all the clubs and the head ministry Bio.
I also have video of a pack of wolves above Peachland roaming around another bait site.
Good Stuff.



Really Al?

I guess I should tell him this is the first or second video of cats we have got from this location in 5 years.
Obvious hot bed.

Once again, if stupid could fly some would be a jet.

[LBM]

I will dig up the original

Any luck on that yet, #1 looks young # 2 guessing the female, she leaves her mark, #3/4 both sniff/rub the tree not sure if its a deer rub or if you have put something
on it would be nice to see more of # 3,4 and 5
Would have been nice to see there tracks as well, all in all pretty cool to see.

[HighCountryBC]

Oh Ya for real.

You consider a one time pass-through over 5+ years as increasing predation? Al, you are looking really desperate and pathetic with your attempts to cut down Ourea and others on this site. I get that you're frustrated because some hunters have been killing decent bucks by a method you don't agree with while you struggle to adapt. If you don't like it, move on or start your own thread. You're not helping gain support for your side.

I have had a group of 6 cats frequent a camera in one of my mulie areas way more consistently than Ourea has at this particular whitetail spot. This is just on a well used game trail so your theory is out the window.

[Ourea]

Any luck on that yet, #1 looks young # 2 guessing the female, she leaves her mark, #3/4 both sniff/rub the tree not sure if its a deer rub or if you have put something
on it would be nice to see more of # 3,4 and 5
Would have been nice to see there tracks as well, all in all pretty cool to see.

Here is the first original video at 5:02 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLDqpDarBSc

[Ourea]

And the second at 5:03...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCZ3C0GiQpU

[Wild one]

First off cool clip thanks for posting it

Secondly WTF did this thread ever go sideways. This anti baiting crap is getting annoying and straight up foolish. I am just seeing some here targeting others grabbing at straws trying to pick their a$$ in any random thread.

Want to talk baiting go start your own thread and debate it there. As someone who is trying to enjoy checking out the threads here piss off it’s annoying

No I don’t bait and like I said before a big reason is I only see it valuable for trail cam pics.

so for the other members here knock off the BS and go start a thread and debate baiting there

[LBM]

And the second at 5:03...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCZ3C0GiQpU

Thanks ourea pretty cool interesting seeing some of them and how they step in the exact prints of the other,
#5 looks like may be slightly bigger but could just be a male sibling.

[Ourea]

^^^^^^^^^^

I can sum up the baiting thing. (even though I was just trying to share some cougar videos until the usual chicken littles chimed in)

If done effectively and in strategic positions it can give a good read on inventory.
Anyone that has an impression you simply dump some treats on the ground and you start shooting WT has never done it.
Folks can sit for days and days with no deer sightings.....ask Sitka Spruce.
It is nothing more than a tool that can be used in an overall strategy for WT.

As for the same little handful of antagonizers that snipe from the sidelines, it's just who they are.
They lack the skills to platform and engage any topic in a meaningful way, contribute nothing......complain and point fingers is the only card they know how to play. Pointless to get mad at a midget for being short.

Quite frankly this approach has chased so many people off of HBC.
Shame really.

[Ourea]

Also, take note of the date on the video.....it's Dec 31st.
That's one full month after rifle season.

Note there isn't a single deer track to be seen as most WT get blown out to lower elevations here after any decent amount of snow.
This is only the second time I have caught cats here in 5+ years of having cams hanging from April until Jan.

Also note that there is a razor back ridge off to the left.
I placed cams at the base of it on a bench as it is a natural flow point for game.
It stands to reason that you will capture animals simply travelling thru in such a location.

Assertions being made about these videos and what they represent are baseless and fly in the face of evidence and common sense.
Pure nonsense to be blunt.

[Wild one]

I don’t bait but have seen lots of cam pics from those who do. Including every single pic from my close friends sites that he has been running bait/minerals for years

Have seen no increase in predators from these sites. I have seen no increase with ungulates either with the exception of bucks keying in on minerals mid to late summer. I do see deer pause for nicer pictures and less unidentifiable butt pics then a pinch point cam

It may not be my style of hunting but I have no issue calling BS on false accusations about it

[Bugle M In]

I don't think theres a need to have to defend yourself here, although I get how some folks can get to others at times.
When certain individuals seek out others, thread after thread, it does get embarrising, and just plain ignorant.
This "shadow trolling" has got to stop.
I still think if some individuals repeatedly do this crap, they should be permanently kicked off of here.
IT is why some have left.
And when guys like H47 rarely come on here because of some of this past bs, you know its going the wrong way.

Ourea, carry on, I like what you present the forum, especially the pics from cams etc.
Sorry for going off topic, but needed to be said.
Carry on.

[Redthies]

As for the same little handful of antagonizers that snipe from the sidelines, it's just who they are.
They lack the skills to platform and engage any topic in a meaningful way, contribute nothing......complain and point fingers is the only card they know how to play. Pointless to get mad at a midget for being short.

Quite frankly this approach has chased so many people off of HBC.
Shame really.

Simple solution (I have used it for certain members here and on other forums). Click on morons user name. Click “add to ignore list”. Annnnd, done. You don’t have to read the mindless drivel anymore.

Great vids Ourea!

[bownut]

You consider a one time pass-through over 5+ years as increasing predation? Al, you are looking really desperate and pathetic with your attempts to cut down Ourea and others on this site. I get that you're frustrated because some hunters have been killing decent bucks by a method you don't agree with while you struggle to adapt. If you don't like it, move on or start your own thread. You're not helping gain support for your side.

I have had a group of 6 cats frequent a camera in one of my mulie areas way more consistently than Ourea has at this particular whitetail spot. This is just on a well used game trail so your theory is out the window.

Its not my theory people, as a mater of fact more States a Provinces are not allowing baiting. The BCWF has also said that feeding concentrates wildlife and promotes sickness and Predation.
But hey carry on with the tactics.
I'm not looking for any support from all you Master Baiters, don't be confused

[Bugle M In]

Its not my theory people, as a mater of fact more States a Provinces are not allowing baiting. The BCWF has also said that feeding concentrates wildlife and promotes sickness and Predation.
But hey carry on with the tactics.
I'm not looking for any support from all you Master Baiters, don't be confused

I don't have a problem with your opinion.
My issue (and also suggested by another member) is that your opinion "takes away" from this thread.
Why not "just ignore the thread" if you feel that differently.
And go and start "another thread" and state "your case" there.
Then people can go there to "have a debate".
This was a post started by a forum member for "interested members to see".
I am fine with your opinion, just not "how you went about it".
I am sure members like Ourea will entertain you with their thought/opinions on a "debatable thread" if you start one.
And, it's not just you that is guilty of doing this.
Hope you can take that for what its meant.
Not trying to slam you, as I know you care about the future of wildlife in BC.
I just not always agree with your opinion.
But I certainly don't agree with doing this stuff in a thread like this.
Cheers BMI

[Ohwildwon]

I'm still waiting for a deer to eat any of the 3 apples I set out by a cam. 3 weeks now and they only walked over them. Some would have you believe such things condense deer from all over the valley and mountains on either side into one spot where they are vulnerable to the packs of cougars and wolves that await the deer which will stand still while the preds munch on them.

Funny I have run 5-7 cameras on salt licks every year for at least 6 years. Amazing I have never come across a kill near the cams. You'd think I'd be knee deep in carcasses by now. I had a coyote sniffing a spot where a bunny was chilling out. I should probably inform the biologists of that too. Definitely some wild imaginations out there.

Maybe we could add an anti-hunting section so members (who are not biologists) could have their own place to converse and criticise lawful hunting activities :)

Also try pumpkin...

[john-brennan]

5 cats crap I hope that's not where I hunt.

[LBM]

Ourea any other neat clips you get bobcat, or lynx coming through. The video quality on the cougars is pretty darn good.

[Ourea]

This was a thread that was sharing some pretty cool cougar videos wasn't it?

[Ourea]

Its not my theory people, as a mater of fact more States a Provinces are not allowing baiting. The BCWF has also said that feeding concentrates wildlife and promotes sickness and Predation.
But hey carry on with the tactics.
I'm not looking for any support from all you Master Baiters, don't be confused

Theory?
Wonderful.

Al, if you need a hand packing in treats to your winter feeding stations let me know.
I am pretty good at heavy loads.

I am sure these deer you feed, that are compressed down into winter range, are exempt from all the purported challenges you champion.
Make sense to me.
:confused: :roll:

[Ourea]

Ourea any other neat clips you get bobcat, or lynx coming through. The video quality on the cougars is pretty darn good.

I was getting quite a few bobbies and they were definitely at an elevation band they seemed to prefer.
I belief I have only got maybe 2 or 3 lynx over the years.
I admire their appearance and it is a treat to capture them on cam.

Photobucket hurt me.....lost thousands of very interesting pics and videos.

[HarryToolips]

Very cool vids there Ourea, thanks for all the great contributions....man it would be nice to harvest a few of those cats, that pack must eat a lot of venison lol...

[RobU]

Bownut actually posted a thread regarding baiting. You guys got it shut down. Ethics of baiting could be debated in a civil matter. Calling him a midget and anti hunter doesn’t really show respect or maturity in return. BC hunters have the right and obligation to question our regulations and ethics used in harvest methods. There are some long term and very invasive baiting sites out there and not pointing fingers here. If a hunter notices predators cruising their bait for the deer and elk it attracts should alarms be going off in your head? And yes Bownut is correct about a long term bait site drawing wolves into the city limits of an okanagan town. I’ve also heard some bait sites growing noxious weeds from the products bought and used for the bait. Love the pics OP... underlying issues around baiting will certainly continue and we should all recognize them.

[rageous]

Those cougars all appear healthy. Nice to see.

There’s far more important things to focus on nowadays in our hunting community Al.

I have 12 trail cameras now. I have been using trail cameras for about 8 years. I’ve got two cougars on my cams over that time period. I get lots of deer ranging from young to old. I’ve never found any predator kills in the areas I hunt. Any deer we’ve been lucky enough to get have never been on our cameras either.

[Ourea]

Bownut actually posted a thread regarding baiting. You guys got it shut down. Ethics of baiting could be debated in a civil matter. Calling him a midget and anti hunter doesn’t really show respect or maturity in return. BC hunters have the right and obligation to question our regulations and ethics used in harvest methods. There are some long term and very invasive baiting sites out there and not pointing fingers here. If a hunter notices predators cruising their bait for the deer and elk it attracts should alarms be going off in your head? And yes Bownut is correct about a long term bait site drawing wolves into the city limits of an okanagan town. I’ve also heard some bait sites growing noxious weeds from the products bought and used for the bait. Love the pics OP... underlying issues around baiting will certainly continue and we should all recognize them.

We didn't shut down his thread, the mods did to be clear....not members.
Bownut is his own worst enemy.
If he would learn a little diplomacy and tact he would probably get a little respect.
Turned another thread into a train wreck.

[Bugle M In]

So, got to ask.
Do you ever go out there to hunt Cats?

[horshur]

Every winter the paper prints a column about supplementary feeding Of deer...all bownuts points are stated by officials...
locals here almost had a lynching for neighbor who was feeding. Damn cougar we’re running the dogs the ladies were walking..good place to run a Tom.
Your camera only takes a pic of a small % of the area.
I learned years ago that the cats here were conditioned to highways dumping roadkill at a location..23 years never fails find a track there...still find a track there. Just like a street person on Hastings and main..they know the spots to look.

[horshur]

It’s a good spot to put up a cam.. never get a deer always get a cougar

[bownut]

We didn't shut down his thread, the mods did to be clear....not members.
Bownut is his own worst enemy.
If he would learn a little diplomacy and tact he would probably get a little respect.
Turned another thread into a train wreck.

Respect you say, you have called me every name under the sun, and you want my respect. Give your head a shake!
I bet you wouldn't say those things to my face.

I can post as much information on the changes we all have to face as Hunters it's all out there.
I have been attacked by many on this site for asking the questions that effect wildlife and may be a driver in the declines.
Go back and read my past post when Goatguy and fisherdude went at me. Their Data isn't so believable anymore is it?
All they could say was "Where's My Science"

Here's one for you to:

BC Outdoors Volume 72 Number 5 Sept Issue
2017 Hunting Forecast Pg. 25
Okanagan Ungulates
Elk are doing well in R8
Mule deer are doing really well in this region and hunter harvest continues to climb.
Recent wildfires on low elevation winter ranges will have a positive impact on deer habitat and hunting may even get better.
White tails are also doing well and spring surveys found their numbers to be stable even with the month long doe season.

How can we now be crying about all the declines and blame it on habitat two years later?
Where's the science? Ask your Bio friends whats up.

I know all to well about the study that is going on and I have looked at the outcome that some states are seeing as a result.
Nothing new here.

As far as me being my worst enemy, there are many frustrated hunter asking the same questions.

[Ourea]

Respect you say, you have called me every name under the sun, and you want my respect. Give your head a shake!
I bet you wouldn't say those things to my face.

I can post as much information on the changes we all have to face as Hunters it's all out there.
I have been attacked by many on this site for asking the questions that effect wildlife and may be a driver in the declines.
Go back and read my past post when Goatguy and fisherdude went at me. Their Data isn't so believable anymore is it?
All they could say was "Where's My Science"

Here's one for you to:

BC Outdoors Volume 72 Number 5 Sept Issue
2017 Hunting Forecast Pg. 25
Okanagan Ungulates
Elk are doing well in R8
Mule deer are doing really well in this region and hunter harvest continues to climb.
Recent wildfires on low elevation winter ranges will have a positive impact on deer habitat and hunting may even get better.
White tails are also doing well and spring surveys found their numbers to be stable even with the month long doe season.

How can we now be crying about all the declines and blame it on habitat two years later?
Where's the science? Ask your Bio friends whats up.

I know all to well about the study that is going on and I have looked at the outcome that some states are seeing as a result.
Nothing new here.

As far as me being my worst enemy, there are many frustrated hunter asking the same questions.

Best thread on sharing cougar videos ever.

[Ron.C]

Great videos Ourea. I can count the months I've had cameras out. Including cams of agriculture plots that local elk feed in and and mineral licks I've placed. I've have thousands of clips of deer, elk,and small game and the only predators I have ever captured was a pair of wolves and the odd hunter. Im beginning to think i have better chance of getting pics of bigfoot then a cougar, let alone 5 cougars. Amazing catch you have here. Love those big cats. Thanks for sharing

[horshur]

Great videos Ourea. I can count the months I've had cameras out. Including cams of agriculture plots that local elk feed in and and mineral licks I've placed. I've have thousands of clips of deer, elk,and small game and the only predators I have ever captured was a pair of wolves and the odd hunter. Im beginning to think i have better chance of getting pics of bigfoot then a cougar, let alone 5 cougars. Amazing catch you have here. Love those big cats. Thanks for sharing

cougar are easy to get trail cam pics. Easier then deer. They have a “beat” and religiously follow it. Take note of rd crossing, investigate the track from the crossing. Often the cat will step in its old tracks. Set on the track.
If you are between a day bed and it’s kill you should get a pic.
if you find a kill, and they are not so tough to find if you walk tracks. Especially if you have some braided sign. Set on kill.
As well you usually won’t spook a cat off it’s kill just cause you walked through it. I did have a Tom move his deer once after I found it however.

[horshur]

You could set on a scratch as well..if there is active scratching. And scratch lines are generational.
You might get a long wait, but if you pay attention to scratches it is predictable. Like one ridge line here. Tom will be scratching when he moves in. Late October early November. For the last 25 years some cat has scratched there.

[Ourea]

Nice to see this thread back on track (pun intended)

[Ron.C]

cougar are easy to get trail cam pics. Easier then deer. They have a “beat” and religiously follow it. Take note of rd crossing, investigate the track from the crossing. Often the cat will step in its old tracks. Set on the track.
If you are between a day bed and it’s kill you should get a pic.
if you find a kill, and they are not so tough to find if you walk tracks. Especially if you have some braided sign. Set on kill.
As well you usually won’t spook a cat off it’s kill just cause you walked through it. I did have a Tom move his deer once after I found it however.

thanks for the tips. I am always targeting deer or elk so my cams are set up for them. I would have expected to get a pic of a cat by accident. But it clearly shows to me that the cats aren't hunting the feeding areas or licks that I'm targeting that draw high numbers of deer/elk.

I have seen cats a few times up a local hiking trail. Very little hunting if any at all up there but lots of mtn bikers and hikers. I think I'll throw a couple cameras up there.

[Gateholio]

Bownut. Please stop highjacking this thread with your personal agenda on bait. Thank you

[RobU]

You could set on a scratch as well..if there is active scratching. And scratch lines are generational.
You might get a long wait, but if you pay attention to scratches it is predictable. Like one ridge line here. Tom will be scratching when he moves in. Late October early November. For the last 25 years some cat has scratched there.

Great point.
They will also use the same creek crossings time and time again. (Bridge, log, boulders)

[LBM]

There is a guy in the states that has some real good pics and videos off his trail cameras, he primarily trys for
cats i think but gets lots of bears wolves etc at the same sites he puts some thing on a stick and they all are
ether licking or sniffing it, ungulates as well pretty cool.

[Ourea]

There is a guy in the states that has some real good pics and videos off his trail cameras, he primarily trys for
cats i think but gets lots of bears wolves etc at the same sites he puts some thing on a stick and they all are
ether licking or sniffing it, ungulates as well pretty cool.

Is there a link?

[LBM]

Is there a link?
I will try to find were the last ones were.

[LBM]

Is there a link?
Ive been looking for the last ones were not that long ago either on a trapping or bow site
some of them were with a reconyx camera which had incredible clear video but when
researched were to much for me because of what goes on out there like you mentioned
at the end of your deer thread.

[REMINGTON JIM]

BC Outdoors Volume 72 Number 5 Sept Issue
2017 Hunting Forecast Pg. 25
Okanagan Ungulates
Elk are doing well in R8
Mule deer are doing really well in this region and hunter harvest continues to climb.
Recent wildfires on low elevation winter ranges will have a positive impact on deer habitat and hunting may even get better.
White tails are also doing well and spring surveys found their numbers to be stable even with the month long doe season.

Don't BELIEVE everything you Read because a LOT of it's NOT TRUE ! :frown: RJ

[Elkhound]

Bownut will chat with you all in 10 days

[.300WSMImpact!]

who lets the dogs out! time to kill some cats let me know when you want me to come!

[Ourea]

Very handsome bobby

https://i.imgur.com/zPKGQBN.jpg

[Ourea]

I ran into a cougar by a creek while checking cams.
I saw a little movement and could see fur thru the brush.

Wasn't sure what it was so moved a little closer and pulled the brush aside.
Oops......there 15 ft in front of me is a cat crouched staring at me.

Bit of a HF moment to say the least.
Long story short the cat stood and started to walk off so I fumbled for my ph and got a bit of video on him.
You have to look closely but should be able to make him out



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isEsh0zpEhM

[LBM]

Very handsome bobby

https://i.imgur.com/zPKGQBN.jpg

Yes they sure are some nice spots and markings on that one

[LBM]

I ran into a cougar by a creek while checking cams.
I saw a little movement and could see fur thru the brush.

Wasn't sure what it was so moved a little closer and pulled the brush aside.
Oops......there 15 ft in front of me is a cat crouched staring at me.

Bit of a HF moment to say the least.
Long story short the cat stood and started to walk off so I fumbled for my ph and got a bit of video on him.
You have to look closely but should be able to make him out



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isEsh0zpEhM

Been nose to nose with them quit a few times when looking in slash piles etc to see if there laying in there, soon as you pull your head out they
go running right by