Wonder if he will be around next year?, Nice Rubs!

[Bugle M In]

So, came across these late in the season.
Unfortunately, I hadn't been able to hit the area when I was up there around Nov 10th this season.
I found them around Nov 25th, and obviously made weeks before.
I do believe they were made just leading up to the rut, not at velvet rub off time.
It's been years since I seen some like this of that caliber.
Sadly, wolf tracks, and some big ones in the area as well.
Also, I don't know if anyone managed to take him, or what will happen to him in the off season,
being poached or most likely taken by the FN Band in the area, as they can be very active.
Not sure how much they hunt outside of the season.
Anyways, hoping he comes back next season, as I think this will be a decent buck, as these type of rubs aren't very common anymore where I hunt (they used to be, and some nice 200+ bucks ended up falling).
There were 7 rubs in total, in a 30 yard area.
Wonder if I should have been in the area Nov 1st or if he made them around the 10th?
Any thoughts of when?
Pictures for those who have an interest
Enjoy.

https://i.imgur.com/6HBRNat.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1rj6zYP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MGO7Aav.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qT9Vyg0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dRioyeU.jpg

[4 point]

See the odd ones like that most every season, but nit so many so close together. My mind says he is hanging around that area for at least a while as the rubs would in most cases take several efforts to make the kind your pictures show. With a lot of them in relativley smaller area would indicate several buck at different times. But not saying 1 buck couldn’t have more than 1 rub. Be there a little earlier in November next year would be my advice. Nice pictures.

[Bugle M In]

See the odd ones like that most every season, but nit so many so close together. My mind says he is hanging around that area for at least a while as the rubs would in most cases take several efforts to make the kind your pictures show. With a lot of them in relativley smaller area would indicate several buck at different times. But not saying 1 buck couldn’t have more than 1 rub. Be there a little earlier in November next year would be my advice. Nice pictures.

Last time I seen a group like this (there were 4 of them in a perfect square configuration,10'x10'x10'x10', it seemed),
the fellow took a nice 200+ buck in the area.
I "used" to see rubs like this every other year at times (one here, one there, but not grouped), but over the last bunch
of years, which was also around the time that R5 shutdown for 10 days, these type of rubs have also disappeared.
So yes, was excited to finally see something decent again.
Amazing how they can go way past just taking the bark off, and start shredding away the actual green inside, like using a knife to widdle away wood (very last picture shows that).

The only reason why I think it is from 1 Buck only, is not only the close proximation, but they all seem to be the same length, but the fact that no where else on those 3 separate ridges, did I find more rubs like that anywhere.
1 maybe, that was decent, but not to these.

I know I just need to find time to get up there earlier like stated, beginning of November (as that's when I think he
was making these).
It's a nice little bench that just out, say 80 yards by 100 yards, on a fairly steep slope otherwise, but lots of does just above him and more so down below traditionally.

My only comment about the FN/Wolves was not to point fingers (and should mention poachers), but the truth is,
for us, the season is now over (today in the area).
I know wolves are around, and I know this buck will be worn out, so that is never a good thing, although snow so far is
virtually non existent right now up there, so that's good.
But, do they get him??, don't know, but, wolves now play into the equation there, where they never did in the past, so predation on bucks like this were low, thus a good chance seeing him again.
The FN is also another unknown, and that is frustrating to me, because we have no idea "how much they hunt it" post season???
And this band "does hunt", but no idea "how many hunt"? or "how long they?, year round??" and "how many do they take"??
I left Merrit years ago because of all the night time pit lamping around Peter Hope etc.
Some bands hunt very little, some a lot.
Sometimes there are only a couple members who do this, sometimes it's way more members.

It is what it is, but between the wolves, and the FN lack of reporting, and then the potential that there is possibly the odd poacher that might take advantage of a situation, we don't really know what happens to our "honey holes"
post season!?
I know there was a thread about a "good start to winter survival", which is always a big factor.
"But do we really know what happens now that the season is over"???
I am not optimistic I will find these rubs again next season.
I used to be, and did, but nowdays, this is a rare event, and never repeated the next year, and I hunt quite late into the
season.
So, where did they go, cause they don't seem to make repeat appearances the following year??
I guess this is just the way it is "now"?

[elknut]

Well first off if its region 5 its closed from the 11th to the 20th of Nov..I too found exact same size rubs ..Big bucks make these is my guess..I found a spot that last year he shit 30 times in a 30 x 30 area..Also rubs before and after ..This year he was back ..I sat on a chair and waited for him..4 hours later he came chasing a doe ..Both deer mouths wide open ...tongues hanging out ...Just about ran me over ..There was another buck behind the big guy..They came about 5-10 feet from me ..I threw up the gun and the big buck veered right and I missed him..the trailer buck was smaller..I found fresh rubs from Nov1 till the 25th ..They seem to rub brush when cleaning then fir when they are aggressive...Although they can rub brush out of frustration ...Jump the buck and does and separate them and that buck will rub and vent his anger later..Just my observations ..This buck I missed that was chasing a doe was on the 25th of Nov..I had wolves in my area also..Also a cougar in the area ..Never saw or heard the wolves in my honey hole but on the road ..Ive killed many many big bucks over 30 years of hunting this area and there is a big change in numbers and habits..It used to be colder and way more snowy than it is now ..Really changes their habits ..Way harder to hunt now ..Mostly nocturnal and heavy thick timber during the day in my area..Fir and pine ...This area used to produce about a dozen big bucks of 170 class and up ..We even had some 250 class non typicals ...Those big deer are different now ..Now only a very few around..I love the hunt for big muley bucks ..Its my passion..They are a real challenge..My only advice is ...Hunt it every year and maybe you will see him ...I'm retired now since 2011 and have all the time I want but its still a very hard game..Dennis

[Bugle M In]

Well first off if its region 5 its closed from the 11th to the 20th of Nov..I too found exact same size rubs ..Big bucks make these is my guess..I found a spot that last year he shit 30 times in a 30 x 30 area..Also rubs before and after ..This year he was back ..I sat on a chair and waited for him..4 hours later he came chasing a doe ..Both deer mouths wide open ...tongues hanging out ...Just about ran me over ..There was another buck behind the big guy..They came about 5-10 feet from me ..I threw up the gun and the big buck veered right and I missed him..the trailer buck was smaller..I found fresh rubs from Nov1 till the 25th ..They seem to rub brush when cleaning then fir when they are aggressive...Although they can rub brush out of frustration ...Jump the buck and does and separate them and that buck will rub and vent his anger later..Just my observations ..This buck I missed that was chasing a doe was on the 25th of Nov..I had wolves in my area also..Also a cougar in the area ..Never saw or heard the wolves in my honey hole but on the road ..Ive killed many many big bucks over 30 years of hunting this area and there is a big change in numbers and habits..It used to be colder and way more snowy than it is now ..Really changes their habits ..Way harder to hunt now ..Mostly nocturnal and heavy thick timber during the day in my area..Fir and pine ...This area used to produce about a dozen big bucks of 170 class and up ..We even had some 250 class non typicals ...Those big deer are different now ..Now only a very few around..I love the hunt for big muley bucks ..Its my passion..They are a real challenge..My only advice is ...Hunt it every year and maybe you will see him ...I'm retired now since 2011 and have all the time I want but its still a very hard game..Dennis

Sounds like exactly how I would describe things.
This is a R3 area, so it is open.
But, the amount of hunters ever since R5 did close for 10 days has gotten crazy.
I thought this year, with the ATV ban in those 3 MU's, and the 1 MD limit, would cut the numbers of the previous few years by at least half.
Nope!
Busiest I have ever seen the area, with probably a 50% increase again (WTF???, makes no sense).
Only concern about it is, when seasons between Regions don't align, this is what happens to some MU's in close proximity to the closed Region.
Just feel like we are all swimming in a smaller and smaller pond, year after year, the pond keeps shrinking.

Sounds like your in R5, otherwise I could have sworn you and I are hunting the exact same hill and roads.

I do hope I see more sign of him once again next season, but I do wonder what happens till then?
Been a long time to see a repeat buck/rubs.
I do know they will, depending on the buck, come back to the same location (within reason), year after year.
Can't say that I see that happening anymore.
Here today, gone by next year.
Hunter success, yes.
FN success, yes.
But have either of those factors made for the change in not seeing repeating bucks??
And, now wolves, and some more cougars then before.
Hard to feel optimistic.
But hey, I am a gluten for punishment.
I'll be back, hope he will be as well!!

[wos]

Off topic but what's with the finish on your gun? Its hard to tell from the pictures. And the checkering seems to be missing?? Is it a customized stock? Just curious cause i like wood and bluing.

[horshur]

Sounds like exactly how I would describe things.
This is a R3 area, so it is open.
But, the amount of hunters ever since R5 did close for 10 days has gotten crazy.
I thought this year, with the ATV ban in those 3 MU's, and the 1 MD limit, would cut the numbers of the previous few years by at least half.
Nope!
Busiest I have ever seen the area, with probably a 50% increase again (WTF???, makes no sense).
Only concern about it is, when seasons between Regions don't align, this is what happens to some MU's in close proximity to the closed Region.
Just feel like we are all swimming in a smaller and smaller pond, year after year, the pond keeps shrinking.

Sounds like your in R5, otherwise I could have sworn you and I are hunting the exact same hill and roads.

I do hope I see more sign of him once again next season, but I do wonder what happens till then?
Been a long time to see a repeat buck/rubs.
I do know they will, depending on the buck, come back to the same location (within reason), year after year.
Can't say that I see that happening anymore.
Here today, gone by next year.
Hunter success, yes.
FN success, yes.
But have either of those factors made for the change in not seeing repeating bucks??
And, now wolves, and some more cougars then before.
Hard to feel optimistic.
But hey, I am a gluten for punishment.
I'll be back, hope he will be as well!!
He is older then two and half..so he must be doing somthing right. Way I see it you got any better place to be?

[horshur]

Oh, he could be a big three which is why he has got some age. Got one like that here figure he is maybe 6 1/2 or7. Thinking back first time I saw a big three in same place.

the predators are hard on the young..not usually mature deer. So you can have older class animals that persist for a fair while until old age and odds catch up... deal is with no recruitment numbers eventually collapse.

[Bugle M In]

Off topic but what's with the finish on your gun? Its hard to tell from the pictures. And the checkering seems to be missing?? Is it a customized stock? Just curious cause i like wood and bluing.

It's one of the last Husky models they ever made before they stopped selling production models to the public.
Carl Gustaff Nitro
It a 270 caliber, tack sharp with the right ammo combo (usually Winchester), and still reasonably light.
Scope sucks, as it is a Burris replacement that I think is junk, that replaced my old posi lock burris signature that
took a beating but always never left 0 (I miss that scope).
There is checkering, but it is "very fine" cut, so hard to see.
Originally the stock was bleached to be almost blonde with a high polish gloss coat (too reflective).
Was sanded down a few times now, and a green stain added on top, and then a satin verathane.
Holds of okay, but not perfect.
Need to get the trigger guard powder coated, not spray painted, or, electroplated possibly?
But the checkering is there, albeit fairly worn by now, just very fine. (very comfortable, imo)
Problem with this rifle is, I could never find aftermarket triggers, and would like to get a laminated thumbholed stock,
but again, it would require it to be custom fitted, cant find anything for it after market wise.
Great gun, and has never let me down.

[wos]

It's one of the last Husky models they ever made before they stopped selling production models to the public.
Carl Gustaff Nitro
It a 270 caliber, tack sharp with the right ammo combo (usually Winchester), and still reasonably light.
Scope sucks, as it is a Burris replacement that I think is junk, that replaced my old posi lock burris signature that
took a beating but always never left 0 (I miss that scope).
There is checkering, but it is "very fine" cut, so hard to see.
Originally the stock was bleached to be almost blonde with a high polish gloss coat (too reflective).
Was sanded down a few times now, and a green stain added on top, and then a satin verathane.
Holds of okay, but not perfect.
Need to get the trigger guard powder coated, not spray painted, or, electroplated possibly?
But the checkering is there, albeit fairly worn by now, just very fine. (very comfortable, imo)
Problem with this rifle is, I could never find aftermarket triggers, and would like to get a laminated thumbholed stock,
but again, it would require it to be custom fitted, cant find anything for it after market wise.
Great gun, and has never let me down.

Leave the gun the way it is! No thumb hole stock! I like it. Get a different scope if that one isn't doing the job.

[Bugle M In]

Oh, he could be a big three which is why he has got some age. Got one like that here figure he is maybe 6 1/2 or7. Thinking back first time I saw a big three in same place.

the predators are hard on the young..not usually mature deer. So you can have older class animals that persist for a fair while until old age and odds catch up... deal is with no recruitment numbers eventually collapse.


He is older then two and half..so he must be doing somthing right. Way I see it you got any better place to be?

Nope, not really any other place to be.
Did do some driving around, but wasn't impressed.
1 or 2 areas that I want to check out still, as well as some new areas to try, but I will be back for sure, and sooner.

As for if it is a 3 point, who knows??
But impressive rubs that I hadn't seen in a long time up there.
Thinking he is a mature buck, with at least some "weight" on him, not just antler.
Once, I did see a buck the ripped up a couple of trees that when he was done, looked more like bull moose was done with it.
A 6x6, that I watched, but he was several hours of hike time to get there.
Never found him, never found rubs like that again either??
These are about the best I can expect these days it seems.

[elknut]

Are you finding any hoof prints..That will usually tell the story..Big feet usually big buck..In my area I had two big guys..One really large and still pointed ...the other big and blunt...shorter...In the past have killed 246 lb hanging deer ..Head ...hide and guts gone ..Hanging like beef..a few others 226 and 231lbs ...As for your gun ...right on ...Its used and like your right arm ..might not be an expensive pretty one but it works..I've got a model 950 CIL 7mm mag I bought in 1965 at Woodwards for $125.00..Its never let me down ..My checkering from refinishing is just about all gone also..I look for large prints and then try to pattern where I find his tracks..This year was a real challenge as it was like summer ...Very little snow ..Found rubs with bark on top of snow so could age the timing of some rubs ..A very interesting phenomenon that I have found with lots of shits near timber..The big bucks are bedding close to entrance and exit spots from the timber by the does..He's Johnny on the spot when they come out..I really search for funnels as they are killing spots..Also found that using google earth and plotting spots really shows you patterns..Very repetitive year after year..As long as no new logging or intrusions every year they like the same areas..My area consists of a cross roads that divide the area in 4 quarters..With snow you know which quarter the deer are in ..No snow and its a big bush to try and find him in..Sounds like you are in sidehill country ...I'm in realatively flat area ..Old selective logging of pine and fir ..Lots of big mature fir 4-6 ft trees and regen..Also unlogged surrounding mature..Is your area hunted and pressured by lots of guys?..Thats my number 1 thing ..An area that no one goes in the bush ..I basically have it all to myself..A few guys drive the road but never venture in..If you have pressure that will really throw a curve ball ..Big bucks don't like lots of pressure..Good luck and hope you find a quiet spot..There always are big mature bucks around if there are lots of does.......Dennis

[Bugle M In]

Hard to know if it gets much pressure, although not like the "main areas" close by.
Some Roads leading to there are getting overgrown, but there is a "back route" many don't use, except for
some "local" I suspect.
Although ATV's are banned now, someone did roar around there with one and elsewhere thru the entire countryside
in the vicinity (maybe rancher?, maybe FN??)
But, looks to me like logging is "coming in".
Sad, because its one of the last areas to still hold mature growth, and in the prime winter range.
That area is getting kicked hard with logging, and has been for years.
So desperate to log everything it seems in the area, and I think is one of the main reasons that I don't see the sign of big boys like we used to, long before wolves came on the seen, fyi.
Again, biggest problem has been the lack of snow on the main plateau, another big difference from say 15 years ago,
if not more, so the deer are much more scattered, high and low, and not being "pushed down" into the groups they
once did, and less concentrated, imo. (sound familiar!!)
As for "Deep Prints", good point!, yes I noticed some prints that were deep, heavy looking prints.
On the Remembrance day long weekend, we had little snow, but did run into one decent track, but at the time, didn't get into this area where I found the rubs weeks later.
Decent tracks, but I have seen one once that was huge, wish I had pictures of that track, and the week later, my friends dad did take that buck, well into the 200's, and wide!
Let see if I can dig up those tracks from the other week?, deer and dog.

[Bugle M In]

This was one of the tracks I found, but could have been any buck, although we were only running into little 2 ptr's,
5 of them, all different, but not much in the way of decent buck tracks.
Hunting season is over, so what the hell, might as well just posts some pics, what else is there to do for now?
Dog below that:
https://i.imgur.com/LnzWDA2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZXN1fzi.jpg

[elknut]

I would post up some pictures but they are on my phone and HBC isn't picture friendly...Are you in a migration area or a resident area..With all the logging it has created many habitable areas that keep deer year round .The deer used to come from way back and migrate to the hwy and the river valleys..Now they stay where they are..Im in a resident area ..The deer live here all year ..We see the bucks in the summer ..All the logging has created many new resident areas that hold deer year round ..All the log blocks of the 80's and 90's are prime holding areas..I like swamps and meadows in the timber .You hit it on the nail when you said we don't have the number of deer like in the past..Also way milder conditions ..Years ago it got cold and snowy and they had to feed most of the day ...Now they still have green grass and easy pickings ..They seemed to be more nocturnal now also ...Very first light and last light ...then hit the timber..Good luck on your hunt next year ..Dennis....Oh one last observation ..Found large deer shit piles ..Only big animals make ..Its a good indicator of deer size I find..Also the bucks are feeding lots during the rut ..Years ago when we had a large concentration of deer we had lots and lots of rubs ..Now not so many as there is less competition...Less bucks ...As you say we could be almost in the same area..LOL..Try find an older area with selective logging but has old growth also and unlogged mature fir and pine ..Less traffic and you never know ..If you find it tell no one ...Dennis

[elknut]

The rubs I find start around the last week of Oct..Then up to the 10th of Nov..Then a closure till Nov 20th..Found fresh rubs after the 20th...How do I know....Because after a very light dusting of snow then finding the rubbed fir bark on top of the snow..Found random rubs after the reopening of Nov 21st ..Hunt those core areas but watch the wind...Also one thing I used to have lots off years ago was the tarsal glands of the last years buck...Don't have that now ..It really made a difference..So what my observation is is that they don't just rub at one time then forget it ...They rub as they are turned on or are frustrated by circumstances.....Best time In my area from the reopening Nov 21 st till Nov 30th...End Oct can also be a very good time if you can hunt it ...During the actual rut they can be with a doe in their deep dark hard to access bush..This is when you will see immature fawns running around and no mature doe with them..This is some of my observations hunting muley bucks...Dennis.

[Bugle M In]

Dennis, I will pm you later (when I have more time) on the area.
Cheers

[rageous]

Would you believe me if I said I know where those rubs are and my brother killed a monster buck there?

[Bugle M In]

Would you believe me if I said I know where those rubs are and my brother killed a monster buck there?

I'm sure I am not the only ever been there.
Matter of fact, the odd guy does hit the area, but more so in the past.
Not much these days from the both trips we made.
Some snow around, but no sign of others.
Do I believe, not sure, maybe just pulling my leg? maybe not.

[mod7rem]

Would you believe me if I said I know where those rubs are and my brother killed a monster buck there?

Rageous,
I tried to send you a PM but your inbox is full.