National park!

[Scotty76]

Just reminding people if they don’t already know,just found out about this, they are pushing the Okanagan national park through now. Apparently there is a consultation period starting in November to January... it hasn’t been posted yet of course. So much for all those consultations the last ten years or so saying NO! I guess they just don’t care about the locals. Just another nail in the coffin. I’ve seen some talk that they will still allow hunting. But who really knows.. maybe have to pay a fee?

Link to parks canada page page with Info , and a contact at bottom of page.

https://www.pc.gc.ca/en/pn-np/cnpn-cnnp/okanagan

it is led by Sarah Boyle federal bio. I’ve emailed parks Canada and some of the local MPs.

Feel like BC is going to lose its “public land” access soon. We need to vote out our current provincial and fed governments yesterday.

[604ksmith]

So ranchers will continue to graze, public will still allow access, but since it would become a national park hunting wouldn't be allowed?

Seems frustrating. Thanks for bringing this up!

[Bugle M In]

"The principal difference between a national park and a national park reserve is that the term “reserve” is used to recognize that there are unresolved claims of Aboriginal rights in the area. Indigenous peoples can continue to participate in traditional land uses and spiritual activities, and may be involved in cooperative management with Parks Canada."


So, what does that mean??
Am I to understand that if you are not FN/Status holder, this is actually a National Park, so if you don't fall into that category, you will no longer be able to hunt there!!??

And if you are, you have just been given another private hunting reserve!!??

Please tell me my understanding is all wrong here!?
If I am right, then holy hell, some folks are going to be upset on this forum.

[Golddust]

I understand protecting certain habitats, particularly in this case. Its important. There are land management aside from creating a national park that can effectively manage the land and take away no rights. This to me seems like another ndp/green/trudeau bullshit tactic at acquiring votes vs actually providing anything of substance. They've put some lady from Ontario who worked on an urban park at the head of this one.

As has been said on this forum a number of times already, if we continue to sit back quietly while these things happen... they will continue to occur more and more frequently and on larger and larger scales. In the past few years think about what we've already lost. Whats being proposed. The protecting public land and defending of our rights as outdoors enthusiasts and hunters is a becoming more and more of an issue. troubling to think about

[Bugle M In]

George Heyman, also in the forefront of those recent pics.

[Scotty76]

George Heyman is the worst thing that has happened to “public land” in this province in the last ten years ... or since 2013 when he was elected. Self proclaimed environmental activist, in a suite. Makes me sick and nervous what BC will be in ten years if we don’t vote accordingly and start being VOCAL. Does anyone else send letters and emails all the time? Where is our voice in all this..... I guess I’ll just go slave at work and keep my head In the sand and hope someone else takes care of it.

[JasonH]

"4(1) Except as otherwise provided in these Regulations, no person shall

(a) hunt, disturb, hold in captivity or destroy any wildlife within, or remove any wildlife from, a park;"

From: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-81-401/FullText.html

"Parks Canada defined National Park Reserves, lands administered by the agency intended to become National Parks pending settlement of indigenous land rights (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_title_in_Canada) and agreements for continued traditional use of the lands."
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Parks_of_Canada

View of Map: https://www.pc.gc.ca/en/pn-np/cnpn-cnnp/okanagan/sommaire-summary

From what it looks like, this will close off a large amount of land that was previously able to be hunted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a point that should also be known is the national park will be open to aboriginal hunting as well, and will just restrict residents, as it will be defined as a "National Parks Reserve". It's mentioned to be a "284-square-kilometre " piece of area, which is quite significant. If this is the case, it will result in protecting the area from some practices, but they claim it will be "providing opportunities for local residents and visitors to continue to experience and appreciate this environment"... Not sure how this is happening, since it is already open to the public and previously owned private lands and native lands won't be opening up, so it's not changing the accessible area at all.

[IronNoggin]

... Please tell me my understanding is all wrong here!?
If I am right, then holy hell, some folks are going to be upset on this forum.

You are correct.
Why do you think the FN's, who were originally against this development, are now onside?
The promise of another exclusive hunting area for them and them alone, coupled with the assurances they will realize the majority of jobs the park will create, was more than enough to sway them.

Certainly sucks to be a regular ol' taxpayer these days... :-(

Ticked,
Nog

[Bugle M In]

You are correct.
Why do you think the FN's, who were originally against this development, are now onside?
The promise of another exclusive hunting area for them and them alone, coupled with the assurances they will realize the majority of jobs the park will create, was more than enough to sway them.

Certainly sucks to be a regular ol' taxpayer these days... :-(

Ticked,
Nog

I tried talking with him and as soo as I brought up FN, you could see he was in full support og giving them whatever they asked.
Lied about GBear just being switched to meat hunt, but in the end banned it.

This is who George Heyman is.
He is actually the "The Main" NDP I want to see gone!, he is worse then Horgan by a long shot folks!.
Sadly, he wins by a large amount in my riding (yes, he is my mla).
Doubt the latte sippers and welfare recipients will vote him out next time.
So even if the NDP are kicked out next election, EXPECT HEYMAN to be the next NDP LEADER!!

Imagine the consequences then!!
Somehow we need a really good alternative for him in my riding so as to have him voted out next election!!
Any Liberals listening!????

[Cabled]

Losing opourtunuty, loss of wildlife, generally clueless/uninformed majority of BC residents , degraded habitat etc. This really sucks, wish there was somewhere I could put some money towards sticking up for the average resident hunter.......

[Scotty76]

Losing opourtunuty, loss of wildlife, generally clueless/uninformed majority of BC residents , degraded habitat etc. This really sucks, wish there was somewhere I could put some money towards sticking up for the average resident hunter.......

this.
I wish I was a better public speaker, and had more time in my hands and I would dive right into some sort of grassroots thing. But there are organizations that are out there but just don’t have a big following in BC. Safariclub I think does good work, and is more on the hunting side. And backcountry hunters and anglers does amazing work for access in BC.

We really need to get the public aware of what the NDP, especially George haymen is doing under people’s noses. The thread sirloin started has much info that needs the be compressed and written out in point forms with what is happening and then goes viral. I bet the majority of the public wouldnt be happy.

[Cabled]

I was kinda sorta meaning something like the WSSBC and their hunter heritage fundraiser. Any of the above groups are great as well, I’m a member of one of them, but it seems to me the Wild Sheep people are a bit ahead of the others when it comes to responding and taking actual action on BC specific issues.

[338win mag]

I heard Stewart Phillip say we needed this park because of global warming. He skimmed over the private hunting ground part.

[skibum]

The Province is able to protect land and still allow multiple stakeholders to continue using it.

I get the feeling that they will try and try until this stupid idea gets shoved down the throats of residents

[Stresd]

One of the best vids I've seen explaining the ramifications this park will have on people. And explaining difference between provincial park and this proposed travesty of a national park reserve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNSV8_Zjnh4

[Bugle M In]

here is the area in question

https://i.imgur.com/ataO9Oa.jpg

[quadrakid]

I know this won.t make me popular but there is another side to this that is not hunting related. Having some form of protection for a rare type of ecosytem . The south okanagan is a one of a kind area for this country. Saving some land from the developers does not seem so bad to the bird watching conservationist in me. The hunter in me does not like to see opportunity lost.It is a rare and important area.

[scoutlt1]

It's been painful watching the northeast side of Osoyoos Lake change from a rare ecosystem (desert) to green vineyards and "Lakeside Cottages" that serve as a backdrop for a commercial fishing boat...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvJTYWMHjOE

I'm sure there won't be anything similar going on in this "Park"... :mad:

[Bugle M In]

I know this won.t make me popular but there is another side to this that is not hunting related. Having some form of protection for a rare type of ecosytem . The south okanagan is a one of a kind area for this country. Saving some land from the developers does not seem so bad to the bird watching conservationist in me. The hunter in me does not like to see opportunity lost.It is a rare and important area.

Then make it a Provincial Park, imo.

[quadrakid]

Pacific Rim is a National Park Reserve. I am glad that there is some protection for such a special area. If the native people that have lived there for four or five thousands years have a say ,so be it. Better than hotels and golf courses from one end of the beach to another.

[boxhitch]

The Province is able to protect land and still allow multiple stakeholders to continue using it.

I get the feeling that they will try and try until this stupid idea gets shoved down the throats of residentsThere is full-time staff hired to shove this down our throats, the only reason it is still alive
They keep perpetuating the lie about how BC wants a national park, when the truth is the poll showed people are interested in protecting special areas.
I am for the protection of wild spaces in the region before it is all cemented but BC has tools to do the job.
A NP would be the extreme answer if the BC Gov can't be trusted to do the right thing

[Jelvis]

This area is right in the midst of thee best mule deer buck country in thee entire world folks! Kare ah Me House -- Keremeos nearby --

Jello Ban Nello -- > Monster muley bucks in all directions at one time --> Worth getting involved in if invited in ---to talk and reason for the hunter to be pleasin --
--Whitetail, black bears, grouse, rabbit, muley, preds, give me my meds Hahahahahaha -- someone?

[Walksalot]

Was it last year or the year before that public forums were held though out the valley to gauge public opinion on a national park reserve. I attended the one in Penticton and to say it was a joke would be an understatement. They had a retired wildlife biologist give a power point presentation to try and add some credibility to the presentation. In my opinion it was nothing more than" present this to the public, kick it around a bit, but bring back a national park reserve. Mention national park and people will get in line to blindly check the "yes" box with no research or understanding of the basic fundamentals to a national park reserve or the impact to existing users withing the park boundaries.

[Ertner]

Email sent to parks and our MLA's, as has been said already we all need to get active in these fights. it not going to get better by sitting on the sidelines and complaining.

im sick of seeing our rights and access given away to special interest, at the rate our feds and the NDP are giving away our land my kids have no chance of living this lifestyle.

i would not have an issues if this was not a "reserve" that is the biggest load of s**t i have seen. or one of them anyways.

[Bugle M In]

Pacific Rim is a National Park Reserve. I am glad that there is some protection for such a special area. If the native people that have lived there for four or five thousands years have a say ,so be it. Better than hotels and golf courses from one end of the beach to another.

I absolutely agree with you when it comes to "development".
I think that is the #1 reason why we are seeing declines in game.
BUT, I have an issue with this park, as it will still allow FN to hunt yet restrict RH.
That's what I hate, a 2 tier system at work, and it's happening a lot now.
I don't blame the FN for this situation, I blame the damn government at work.

I also think part of this "Reserve", is to allow FN to hunt, but, I think they are also trying to stop some of those claims
right now to hunt in actual National Parks (Not Reserve in title), that we are also hearing about with the FN.
That, I do blame the FN for!

In other words, the government has lost it's balls to do the right thing for all residents in BC.
That's my issue.

[Jelvis]

Resident hunters is what you need to gather under as a group -- I don't come under resident hunter now but did for decades b4 --
-- I always back the resident hunter in BC -- stand with and help support -- If you want to stand under a title to fight for your right to par tayyyy it's Resident Hunter!

Jel -- my hunting bud is a resident hunter and we stand together -- Resident hunter is what all of us must support to gather together under one umbrella
---------------Then we will see Resident Hunter get the attention and favor it has earned over time by spending coin on LEH and GOS ----> Resident Hunter <----
---You are the one's who keep the Ministry alive, no one else and the Ministry knows that financially and has an awesome LEH fun type draw happening now!

[quadrakid]

I am playing devils advocate here. The National Park Service has a different mandate than our provinial park ministry. A major part of our national system is that Parks Canada protects a portion of each different habitat/ecosystem in our country.Some of those systems are large and some,such as the south okanagon are quite small.Their mandate is to protect these systems as they should be naturally,it is not a mandate to turn them into playgrounds .Of course that is difficult and parks like Banff do not exactly fit into that mold.
I guess my point is that protecting an area as different and diverse as the south Okanagan is most certainly going to have some adverse effects for some folks but in the long run may be for the greater good. The long run is after we are all gone. Once it is all vineyards and golf courses there is no turning back.

[Bugle M In]

I am playing devils advocate here. The National Park Service has a different mandate than our provinial park ministry. A major part of our national system is that Parks Canada protects a portion of each different habitat/ecosystem in our country.Some of those systems are large and some,such as the south okanagon are quite small.Their mandate is to protect these systems as they should be naturally,it is not a mandate to turn them into playgrounds .Of course that is difficult and parks like Banff do not exactly fit into that mold.
I guess my point is that protecting an area as different and diverse as the south Okanagan is most certainly going to have some adverse effects for some folks but in the long run may be for the greater good. The long run is after we are all gone. Once it is all vineyards and golf courses there is no turning back.

Absolutely.
But there are other things that can be implemented.
Be it ORV resrtricted etc etc.
The issue for me is not the "protect the area".
The issue is allowing one user group to do something no one else can.
IF I cant hunt it, they cant hunt.
But I see no reason why both us and FN can not hunt the area.
Protect it from development or resource extraction, I am 100% behind that....anywhere!!

[quadrakid]

I,m in agreement with you Bugle M In. Unfortunately the court system is not in agreement. Everyone likes to blame the government but it is the courts that interpret the laws that are on the books. Until the laws are changed this is how things shall be.