Mule deer doe draws

[Onesock]

Does anyone have any idea why there are approx 1200 doe draws in region 3?

[RackStar]

To help the declining mule deer pop...

DUH!!

[bownut]

Opportunity, isn't that what everyone wants?

Don't you get it?

[Onesock]

A realistic reason would be appreciated! Thanx very much.

[RackStar]

I would also like to know.
Wasnt being a smart ass to you.

Very good question onesock

[walks with deer]

if hunters can slow there trigger finger and watch the deer a dry doe can be selected.
my wife or i have been drawn 11times in the last 10years...most deer harvested where unable to reproduce but two...most where head or neck shots..half where shot in alfalfa feilds and were large fat unreproducing...one even had no teeth..hung that one longer than ever before lol.

if a hunter has a 338-327-or 326 draw i can help with the selected deer.

hunting for my family isnt typically wow a deer..
its more like we will take frank,jim,and sally this year...in the process we eye up daryl and jim..

[Onesock]

I just dont understand the leh doe when mule deer are in the trouble they are.

[walks with deer]

mule deer hit a all time low not last spring but the spring before when pred numbers hit there peak..
at least in 3 and 8 where i mostly play...lowest numbers i have ever seen in my life..they actually made it through the winter and most fatalitys occured in may and june.
pred numbers have dropped since...rabbits are gone they where at there height 2 summers ago you would see 120-150 a night.
theres alot of wildlife issues in bc but there is also cycles..i was raises not to kill predators...my mentality and my dads has shifted.
get the shot even marginal at a pred take it.

[walks with deer]

i also noticed fawns surviving better in areas where large male bears are not present...mostly where myself and freinds have harvested them beside fawning does.

[Islander30]

I just dont understand the leh doe when mule deer are in the trouble they are.

Isn't that why the provincial bag limit for mule deer was reduced to one ? So now anyone opting to take a leh doe won't be able to take a buck.....we need at least some bucks spared don't we, the does can't breed themselves ?

[Wild one]

Isn't that why the provincial bag limit for mule deer was reduced to one ? So now anyone opting to take a leh doe won't be able to take a buck.....we need at least some bucks spared don't we, the does can't breed themselves ?

The 1 MD buck provincial bag limit is because many MUs were falling shy of the minimum buck vs doe ratio of 20% for a number of years. Basically BC hunters were exceeding harvest goals for MD bucks

You can actually still take more the 1 MD a year if you have a doe draw. 3,4,7,8 all have a 1 MD regional limit but 5,6 have a 1 buck 1 doe MD limit. Yes they did not make it simple

[dana]

I would think that the 1 mule deer limit caused many to think twice about their LEH doe draws. Particularly because this change was unknown at the time people were sending their LEH applications in. I would imagine a lot of those LEHs have been unfilled this year. I would also imagine that the Regional Bios will be looking hard at the harvest numbers on the harvest questionnaires. If more does were harvested than was desired, they will probably cut LEH tag numbers again.

[Islander30]

The 1 MD buck provincial bag limit is because many MUs were falling shy of the minimum buck vs doe ratio of 20% for a number of years. Basically BC hunters were exceeding harvest goals for MD bucks

You can actually still take more the 1 MD a year if you have a doe draw. 3,4,7,8 all have a 1 MD regional limit but 5,6 have a 1 buck 1 doe MD limit. Yes they did not make it simple

Right, so as long as we still have a GOS for bucks don't we need to at least have some LEH for does ?

[Islander30]

I would think that the 1 mule deer limit caused many to think twice about their LEH doe draws. Particularly because this change was unknown at the time people were sending their LEH applications in. I would imagine a lot of those LEHs have been unfilled this year. I would also imagine that the Regional Bios will be looking hard at the harvest numbers on the harvest questionnaires. If more does were harvested than was desired, they will probably cut LEH tag numbers again.

Ya, that's exactly what I was thinking. In fact I just talked to a guy at work the other day that said "I guess now the doe draws are only good for the years you don't get your buck".

Also talked to another guy that cancelled his November hunting trip because he got a buck in October...he also had a doe draw.

[horshur]

I just dont understand the leh doe when mule deer are in the trouble they are.

Mule deer are not in trouble everywhere....some places there are too many. It is good practice to keep numbers well below carrying capacities since we live in a variable climate. It is basic management practices.

We have to be cognizant of the fact that the past..and what we grew to expect may not in most cases been optimal..you may have enjoyed and participated in a boom however booms lead to a collapse. Collapse is normal, spikes in populations are normal. Stable is the most unlikely...Bear in mind that our forefathers took up farming and animal husbandry for a reason.

[tomahawk]

I talked to 3 hunters recently during the 4 point season that had an antlerless mule in camp they tagged out on as the 4 points were very nocturnal.


I would think that the 1 mule deer limit caused many to think twice about their LEH doe draws. Particularly because this change was unknown at the time people were sending their LEH applications in. I would imagine a lot of those LEHs have been unfilled this year. I would also imagine that the Regional Bios will be looking hard at the harvest numbers on the harvest questionnaires. If more does were harvested than was desired, they will probably cut LEH tag numbers again.

[Wild one]

Right, so as long as we still have a GOS for bucks don't we need to at least have some LEH for does ?

Doe harvest really should depend on the population in the MU it’s not a matter of we still have a buck season. My opinion doe LEH at reasonable numbers is good but with MD numbers declining maybe rethink LEH numbers

Truth is there is not one answer that is correct for all MUs within a region let alone all of B.C. so really choices should be made at min on an MU to MU biases

[tooley]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Bugle M In]

Sounds to me it is dependent upon where you hunt and which areas seem to be fine with MD#'s and other areas seeing lower #'s.
Running at top carrying capacity never lasts long (remember the Kettle Valley winter kill back in the 90's).

On top of that, we just had a Bag limit change to 1 MD for most Regions.
Come on folks, it just happened, so how about give it some time to play out!!??

Like Dana said, the Bios will probably look at the questionaries' this coming year to see how the 1 MD limit played out, and get a better understanding of "how hunters changed their hunting sites" with all this to consider.
Do I harvest the spiker, fill my doe or chance the late season for the elusive 4pt???

Seems a little early to ask for more changes.
But yes, to the OP, it is to maintain a level of MD#'s so that they don't reach "full capacity".

[HappyJack]

Sounds to me it is dependent upon where you hunt and which areas seem to be fine with MD#'s and other areas seeing lower #'s.
Running at top carrying capacity never lasts long (remember the Kettle Valley winter kill back in the 90's).

On top of that, we just had a Bag limit change to 1 MD for most Regions.
Come on folks, it just happened, so how about give it some time to play out!!??

Like Dana said, the Bios will probably look at the questionaries' this coming year to see how the 1 MD limit played out, and get a better understanding of "how hunters changed their hunting sites" with all this to consider.
Do I harvest the spiker, fill my doe or chance the late season for the elusive 4pt???

Seems a little early to ask for more changes.
But yes, to the OP, it is to maintain a level of MD#'s so that they don't reach "full capacity".


Maybe they would be wiser to do actual field studies rather than relying on questionnaires? The information that should be used is ACTUAL game populations after-all the predators don't send in their questionnaires. [roll eyes].

I can tell you how I changed my patterns, this year we didn't hunt 5-14 for the 4 point season. The communities of Quesnel and Williams Lake lost a lot of tourist money coming into their community due to someone deciding to reduce the mule deer to 1 per year because 3% of people that cut a tag on a mule deer would cut a second tag on a 4 pt.

[Onesock]

The way I read the regs are you can shoot a mule deer buck in reg 3 and a leh mule deer doe in reg 8?

[.308SLAYER]

Not really to sure why anyone would even have to apply
For more a mule doe laziness in my opinion

[.308SLAYER]

If you cant find a legal buck during our long hunting season there is something wrong...last two times I've been out rattled in a 4 point whitey each time not very hard...

[pnbrock]

my wife had doe draw for reg 3 and was difficult to find does without fawns.i think in my area this looks to be an improvement over last season.

[Islander30]

The way I read the regs are you can shoot a mule deer buck in reg 3 and a leh mule deer doe in reg 8?

Ya I think your right, I didn't put in for a doe draw so I hadn't actually thought about how I could get both but your right it isn't actually a provincial limit of 1 mule deer it's just most regions are 1 mule deer. Regardless I still think as long as we have GOS for bucks there should still be at least some LEH for does....and I know I don't want to see mule bucks got to LEH, I think if we need to do that then we are in real trouble...and it won't be hunters who are at fault, same with salmon sport fishing.

[Jelvis]

Mule deer doe don't have antlers, there bald so it makes for a question? --- That's when the question shoody be answered ---

What am I hunting for ? And why? ---- going for the family thing as a group -- so go the LEH doe - go to the young hunters and new ones. Resident hunters of B.C.

LEH mule deer antler less - should go to new hunters and the young hunters starting out etc. imo 0r family group type hunt --

Jel -- we got to think about it when we go hunting, after an experience and the meat for a treat. Then go LEH mule antlerless or do we want to try for a four point buck?
----------------a 4 point buck will be harder to get then filling an antlerless mule deer tag will be -------------------------so you have options in leh -- plan n choose
When your looking for a legal four point your going to see antlerless mule deer -- so figure out b4 if you can -- your plan of attack --

[geo guy]

Not really to sure why anyone would even have to apply
For more a mule doe laziness in my opinion

I like to apply for them every year. I had 4 days off this year to go hunting. I'm a meat hunter I shoot the first legal animal I see. I'd like to focus on harvesting larger animals but in my current situation it isnt possible. I didnt get anything this year as I didnt have doe tag, I had a little 2 point at 10 yards but 4pt season.

I am sure there are lots of guys like me who are either starting their careers or are in school and cannot take the time off to go hunting.

[Wentrot]

Sure let’s attack fellow hunters for legally taking a doe. Said it before and I’ll say it again, Hunter vs hunter BS needs to stop before anything improves

[pnbrock]

My wife was very proud to take a doe. We were selective on animal taken to ensure survival of fawns. Would estimate her animal to be last years fawn so not really impacting this years recruitment.

[Bugle M In]

Maybe they would be wiser to do actual field studies rather than relying on questionnaires? The information that should be used is ACTUAL game populations after-all the predators don't send in their questionnaires. [roll eyes].

I can tell you how I changed my patterns, this year we didn't hunt 5-14 for the 4 point season. The communities of Quesnel and Williams Lake lost a lot of tourist money coming into their community due to someone deciding to reduce the mule deer to 1 per year because 3% of people that cut a tag on a mule deer would cut a second tag on a 4 pt.
Yup, for some reason people think there are lots of folks who cut more than 1 MD tag in the past.
But they don't.
And then no one considers folks like me, who do generally have an opportunity at atleast taking 1 4pt Md each season,
but don't. (I like to pass it up hoping for something really decent)

The biggest detriment to MD historically have been severe winters.
If that happens, then okay, give them a break and leave does alone for a couple years.
But that hasn't been the case.

And yes, there is lots of speculation as to the declines of MD in some areas, whether its preds or is it something else or
a combination of things?

Hopefully that recent collaring MD project will give some answers.
But again, let the new regs play out before we start going off the deep end once again, only to bitch later that there still isn't MD in some areas.

[ghost]

talked to a rancher who is a hunter.he said the last two winters have been hard and on top of that the ticks have hit the deer hard as well.he stated he lost some cattle to them I would imagine the deer are affected greater than the cattle

[Bugle M In]

Usually, depending where you hunt (how close you are to their full time winter grounds) you will see the results yourself when you find the full skeletal carcasses.
Can't say I have seen many around where I hunt in quite a few years, but there was one season years ago where we did see quite a few (pre wolves).

[chris]

Personally I don't have a problem with people who shoot does even though I don't hunt them myself. What I don't understand is the idea of a "dry doe". Just because a doe doesn't have a fawn with it doesn't mean it can't have one. In fact it more than likely had a fawn that was lost to predation. Although yes if you are going to shoot one it is best to shoot a lone doe.

[Jelvis]

-- A dry doe -- " dry doe " means a virgin doe, never had a baby yet, no milk, it's dry. That's what that means.

A female mule deer is born in May or so and the firsst rut won't be bred, then the next year it will be ready to let a buck jump her.
then she get's pregnant and in spring has baby and then get's wet, produces milk for her first fawn.

Jel -- so if your good or lucky or both, you can pick out a dry one, butt it isn't always easy -- lots of variables to fool the assumptions -- Hahahahaha

[boxhitch]

Does anyone have any idea why there are approx 1200 doe draws in region 3?
De ja vu
Seems like your annual question

[Haydenmk]

I personally don't agree with it, at the very least they should really limit the amount of authorizations. Maybe I'll start putting in for mule doe Leh in the hopes of being successful, but saving a doe by not shooting one. Hold out for a decent buck instead. Each to their own I guess.

[boxhitch]

Sure let’s attack fellow hunters for legally taking a doe. Said it before and I’ll say it again, Hunter vs hunter BS needs to stop before anything improvesWoot! Here here

[Jelvis]

The mule deer buck has a handsome rack and with the generous Any Buck Yock Tober in 3 a person who likes getting out hunting in Kammy for instance in October can see a mule buck.

-- Hunters like antlers besides the venison and kinda compare the racks with delight --

Jello -- a lil machoism in all of us Hahahaha -- that's why LEH antlerless muley allows the meat to be number 1 and still had success and filled the tag --
------------------------------- No one is going to pass on a 4 point mule in season if they only get out hunting two or three times a season -----------------------