Priority Action Approach

[bownut]

With the 2018 Hunting Season winding down and so many Resident Hunters having another successful season, I thought it would be a great time to ask the question.

1:What are your concerns in this Province, and to list them in a prioritized order?

2:What action should be taken to address the problem?

3: To follow up and ask your Clubs, Organizations, and friends to share their views.

Let it roll people.....

[RobU]

With the 2018 Hunting Season winding down and so many Resident Hunters having another successful season, I thought it would be a great time to ask the question.

1:What are your concerns in this Province, and to list them in a prioritized order?

2:What action should be taken to address the problem?

3: To follow up and ask your Clubs, Organizations, and friends to share their views.

Let it roll people.....

Heres my list...Difficult to put in order of priority but have tried to short list my concerns.
1. Shorten seasons in high pressure low number areas - including some rut seasons.
2. Many more road closures and ATV restrictions province wide.
3. Put more animals and regions on LEH (spread out hunting pressure)
4. All sheep. 1 every 3 years.
5. High pressure sheep areas put on LEH (example: MUs along Alaska Hwy.)
6. Restructured LEH program borrowing successful formats from other provinces with a progressive draw
7. Province wide ban on baiting for hunting.(why are we habituating wild animals? Not fair chase)
8..province wide ban on selling animal parts (except for lisenced trappers)
9. Introduce educational programs to hunters and trappers for the purpose of a better wolf control program.

guess my list could go on. These concerns seem to be the hot topics among my circle of hunting friends. Difficult to align these concerns with a club or organization but I’m searching.

[monasheemountainman]

More leh for me

[warnniklz]

Get rid of the November doe draws in region 5 and open them to youth and senior in October

I also like the approach that Alaska takes on their goats with nanny harvest

[Rackmastr]

Get rid of the November doe draws in region 5 and open them to youth and senior in October

I also like the approach that Alaska takes on their goats with nanny harvest

I'll have to google it, but I'm assuming a wait period if you shoot a nanny?

[Island Idiots]

Nothing makes me want to vomit more than hunters asking for more restrictions instead of more habitat, and wolf, bear, yote control.
Shut this down, shorten this, close that, limit access, what a bunch of crap.

[okas]

Less total asses like road blockers camp wreakers drive by shooters as did not fall down why look and just stupid as a lot of that out there no mater how old .

[warnniklz]

I'll have to google it, but I'm assuming a wait period if you shoot a nanny?

correct-o GOOD SIR

[Wentrot]

Nothing makes me want to vomit more than hunters asking for more restrictions instead of more habitat, and wolf, bear, yote control.
Shut this down, shorten this, close that, limit access, what a bunch of crap.


X2, unfortunately we are our own worst enemy.

[dakoda62]

Cancel Cow/Calf moose Leh. Cancel Mule deer Doe Leh. Reinstate and increase Grizzly Leh.

[caddisguy]

Nothing makes me want to vomit more than hunters asking for more restrictions instead of more habitat, and wolf, bear, yote control.
Shut this down, shorten this, close that, limit access, what a bunch of crap.

X3 on that. We already have enough restrictions. We could ban all hunting completely, but without addressing other predation and habitat, it is not going to result in more animals.

Often hunters are their own worst enemies. Keep it up and what we will end up with is a one week hunting season in October where every hunter in BC has to drive 10 hours and cram themselves in the bush all at once

But sure, ban salt licks... it's totally habituating... maybe back trailcams too. I wonder how many people actually shoot deer off "bait" in BC each year. Maybe 10 ?

[.264winmag]

Poison wolves...

[RobU]

Nothing makes me want to vomit more than hunters asking for more restrictions instead of more habitat, and wolf, bear, yote control.
Shut this down, shorten this, close that, limit access, what a bunch of crap.

May u put your finger down your throat. Puke away. Preach habitat. We all get it...better habitat is welcome everywhere. In reality we have to work with what we have. Habitat is lost and not replaced every day in BC.... development and the non stop quest for natural resources. Constantly pointing the finger at habitat is an easy way out. Manage our wildlife for the habitat we have now and it’s a slow process to bring more and better habitat in the coming years. How we vote and more pressure on big industry to replenish habitat and deactivate roads will truly help.

[RobU]

��������������������

[Wentrot]

May u put your finger down your throat. Puke away. Preach habitat. We all get it...better habitat is welcome everywhere. In reality we have to work with what we have. Habitat is lost and not replaced every day in BC.... development and the non stop quest for natural resources. Constantly pointing the finger at habitat is an easy way out. Manage our wildlife for the habitat we have now and it’s a slow process to bring more and better habitat in the coming years. How we vote and more pressure on big industry to replenish habitat and deactivate roads will truly help.


Restricting hunters is not the way. Crack down on the rampant poaching by the keepers of the land, deactivate roads and everyone start doing their part in predator control and we will be on a good path.

[Darksith]

Nothing makes me want to vomit more than hunters asking for more restrictions instead of more habitat, and wolf, bear, yote control.
Shut this down, shorten this, close that, limit access, what a bunch of crap.
I totally agree with you. Its not because of us that numbers are down, it won't fix anything by taking away more opportunity. We need funding for management, PERIOD! This will improve habitat, allow for management of predator numbers, more surveys. Its not that there is too much hunting pressure, there is too much other pressures like industry and predators. We need action not restrictions

[RobU]

No arguements. However difficult beyond belief given our current political mess
and big resource companies not forced to reclaim their mess. Don’t get me wrong. I want things to be as good as 10, 20,30 years ago. I hate change. We’re screwed right now. Shitty govt and very poor hunter,trapper,fisherman representation.
I see so much habitat preaching on this site. It’s great and a key factor in the future of B.C. But if our current management model is failing with the habitat we have now, it will eventually fail with better habitat as well.
A failure is not something tried that doesn’t work. A failure is trying the exact same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[mpotzold]

Cancel Cow/Calf moose Leh. Cancel Mule deer Doe Leh. Reinstate and increase Grizzly Leh.

Agree 100%!
No cows=no moose procreation. 1/2 calf are female. Only would allow it on the rare occasion when it can be proven that there are simply too many for the area to sustain
Also by hook or by crook night hunting must be stopped ASAP. Also in the name of conservation & proper management indiscriminate year round slaughter should also be looked at carefully.

Yes bring back the grizz hunt. And forget about the meat retention of both grizz & black.
I'm sure both bears are a big factor in the dwindling moose numbers.
Read that some grizz have killed over 3 dozen newborns per year. Do the math.
Wolves also eat moose but at a much lesser scale.

Re does-Unless the numbers are considerably down I'm for LEH & in some cases open.

[bighornbob]

Heres my list...Difficult to put in order of priority but have tried to short list my concerns.
1. Shorten seasons in high pressure low number areas - including some rut seasons.
2. Many more road closures and ATV restrictions province wide.
3. Put more animals and regions on LEH (spread out hunting pressure)
4. All sheep. 1 every 3 years.
5. High pressure sheep areas put on LEH (example: MUs along Alaska Hwy.)
6. Restructured LEH program borrowing successful formats from other provinces with a progressive draw
7. Province wide ban on baiting for hunting.(why are we habituating wild animals? Not fair chase)
8..province wide ban on selling animal parts (except for lisenced trappers)
9. Introduce educational programs to hunters and trappers for the purpose of a better wolf control program.

guess my list could go on. These concerns seem to be the hot topics among my circle of hunting friends. Difficult to align these concerns with a club or organization but I’m searching.


Something to read:

https://www.wildsheepsociety.com/1689-2/?fbclid=IwAR11M53KuedUnqdlEsTtt2PaYEtlS-wmb8Hc9cCt0vFnFbbRGysvzceBSrc

BHB

[RobU]

Thanks. Good read. That would answer to the other sheep restrictions I’ve been hearing about.

[Islander30]

No arguements. However difficult beyond belief given our current political mess
and big resource companies not forced to reclaim their mess. Don’t get me wrong. I want things to be as good as 10, 20,30 years ago. I hate change. We’re screwed right now. Shitty govt and very poor hunter,trapper,fisherman representation.
I see so much habitat preaching on this site. It’s great and a key factor in the future of B.C. But if our current management model is failing with the habitat we have now, it will eventually fail with better habitat as well.
A failure is not something tried that doesn’t work. A failure is trying the exact same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I think whats failing with our current management model with the habitat we have now is it doesnt involve a massive province wide wolf cull. I think you can come up with more hunting restrictions till your blue in the face but if something isnt done about the infestations of predators (mostly wolves) all ungulate species are headed the way of the caribou. The way I understand it, increasing more hunting restrictions is like throwing cargo over the side of a sinking ship....just slows down the inevitable. Of course thats just my opionion based on what others with more knowledge have explained to me.

[RobU]

No arguement. They are a genuine problem. All Adds up to over pressured populations.

[Jelvis]

Can't poison animals with bait in BC it's a no no, always will be, when the wolf dies the ravens eat the dead meat and some other animals and they get poisoned too.

Jelly No Poison ---> it's an air e all attack -- from the skies --

[Bugle M In]

If we had a "great plan" then I would be willing to consider "restricted efforts in the hunting arena" to help kick
up the game populations for all species quicker.

That being said though, unless we establish "designated winter ranges" (like ALR, which is a bit of a joke in itself),
where no one can develop on, all over the province.
Also, take back land that is known to be historic winter range (good luck with that).
Introduce a Pred cull (especially wolves), which isn't going to happen with the present government.
Do prescribe burns where needed.
Come to some decision on "how much head of a certain species (ie. ek elk)in an Region, cause right now, it's seems everyone is trying to shoot for "low #'s" (ie. only 12,000 head of elk in ek rather then say 20,000).
Get Conservation Funding from every avenue possible, like any outdoor activity product, regardless if it is for hunting or not.
Have that Funding implemented, FULLY 100%.
Get FN to change their practices and also start reporting.
Maybe restrict ORV's to designated roads, and as well where and when they can operate (snowmobiles).
Putting fires where they need to happen, rather then just hoping they happen in the right area.
How do we deal with all the "over harvesting of timber" everywhere. (due to beetle).

Are you going to get ranchers to put 10' high fences around their property (as well as vineyards) so they stop screaming to "cull all the elk/deer" on their properties?? (part of why elk #'s are low in ek - zone x)
Get ICBC to fence every stretch of highway??

Good luck with that folks, but those are just some of the "real issues" that is causing game to decline.
But go ahead, restrict away, hope you get an leh tag, and if not, hey, just sit the season out!!!
It's worked so well so far hasn't it.
Compare the Regs from 1965 to the ones now, plus the leh paperwork, and some are still thinking that "taking away a few more hunter opportunities" is finally going to resolve it!!?????????
After all this time, and yet more and more declines.
MAkes sense to me.

Tell you what, fix some the stuff I just put up first, and if it all gets implemented, I doubt this thread would even be considered being posted in the 1st place.
But, lets just say all those fixes happened, then yes, I am willing to restrict some Cow/Doe seasons for a few years to help pump up the #'s quicker, for sure.
But on it's own, aint goin to do sweet F' all!

Now I understand my father better when he would tell me something but I just ignored it or thought I knew better.
Then he would just say "find out for yourself".
Everytime he finished with that line, he ended up being correct.
Because he had already been there!
He already knew what the outcome would be.
Sad part here is, your dealing with wildlife, not a repair to a truck etc.
The longer we waste time with futile restrictions, the longer and harder it will be to fix game populations, if ever.
I agree with some when they say "it will never be like before"!
IT won't, humans are chewing up everything around the planet, so where will the game live??
Time to put the pressure on the government and private enterprises to work together to really fix the root of the problem.
Done!

[Bugle M In]

Heres an article I came across of late as many LM'rs wont have seen this.
Folks asking for restrictions (which I can understand, as they are concerned, as I am myself), but then you read
his A-F points at the bottom, and you see that restrictions will in itself, just be a failure, cause no one can correct all
the changes that have happened to this province over the years.
Why he stop at F is beyond me ??, as he could have added points all the way to Z of which those also have nothing to do with hunting, but "everything to do with low game #'s"!!!

https://www.cranbrooktownsman.com/news/looking-back-on-hunting-season-2017/

[.264winmag]

Can't poison animals with bait in BC it's a no no, always will be, when the wolf dies the ravens eat the dead meat and some other animals and they get poisoned too.

Jelly No Poison ---> it's an air e all attack -- from the skies --

Well it's pitching in in Alberta, no? Kills a few ravens and other varmints, seems like a plausible trade-off.
If only there was a substance that only affected canines...

[LuckyIfYouGetOne]

Nothing makes me want to vomit more than hunters asking for more restrictions instead of more habitat, and wolf, bear, yote control.
Shut this down, shorten this, close that, limit access, what a bunch of crap.

100% agree

[RyoTHC]

With the 2018 Hunting Season winding down and so many Resident Hunters having another successful season, I thought it would be a great time to ask the question.

1:What are your concerns in this Province, and to list them in a prioritized order?

2:What action should be taken to address the problem?

3: To follow up and ask your Clubs, Organizations, and friends to share their views.

Let it roll people.....

What I wish for is alot less spineless folk who won't shoot predators. I don't care what your excuse is or how you justify it, if you actively hunt the ungulates every year you damn well better be spending some time with boots on the ground hunting bear, coyote, wolf or any of the big cats... Too many people want to take take take.

[limit time]

Heres my list...Difficult to put in order of priority but have tried to short list my concerns.
1. Shorten seasons in high pressure low number areas - including some rut seasons.
2. Many more road closures and ATV restrictions province wide.
3. Put more animals and regions on LEH (spread out hunting pressure)
4. All sheep. 1 every 3 years.
5. High pressure sheep areas put on LEH (example: MUs along Alaska Hwy.)
6. Restructured LEH program borrowing successful formats from other provinces with a progressive draw
7. Province wide ban on baiting for hunting.(why are we habituating wild animals? Not fair chase)
8..province wide ban on selling animal parts (except for lisenced trappers)
9. Introduce educational programs to hunters and trappers for the purpose of a better wolf control program.

guess my list could go on. These concerns seem to be the hot topics among my circle of hunting friends. Difficult to align these concerns with a club or organization but I’m searching.
Don’t be shy man! Tell us the truth !

[limit time]

Re open G bear
open wolf and yote year round
hold natives accountable
close all mule in every reg but 2 and only reg 2 residents can hunt it ;)

[RobU]

How many of the A to F points will realistically happen. Yes all good points.

[Bugle M In]

How many of the A to F points will realistically happen. Yes all good points.

Fixing the A-F, realistically, wont happen.
And I have no reason to believe there is any "real push" to make those changes happen.
Especially when we push for the same old same old like the past 40 years, and just tell the ministry to slap us with more regulations.
Like I said, the person was right with A-F, but there are even more issues that he could have filled in to Z.
So, lets just do what we always do, restrict hunters.
Lets not point fingers at the real culprits!??????

[two-feet]

Agree 100%!
No cows=no moose procreation. 1/2 calf are female. Only would allow it on the rare occasion when it can be proven that there are simply too many for the area to sustain
Also by hook or by crook night hunting must be stopped ASAP. Also in the name of conservation & proper management indiscriminate year round slaughter should also be looked at carefully.

Yes bring back the grizz hunt. And forget about the meat retention of both grizz & black.
I'm sure both bears are a big factor in the dwindling moose numbers.
Read that some grizz have killed over 3 dozen newborns per year. Do the math.
Wolves also eat moose but at a much lesser scale.

Re does-Unless the numbers are considerably down I'm for LEH & in some cases open.
You think bears kill more moose than wolves? Every wolf shit is full of moose hair, every bear shit is full of berries. I agree they take some, and in some areas the grizz would take a serious toll, but a wolf pack kills a moose a week. I would guess wolves are the number one killer, more than all others combined

[Darksith]

Was watching a show where a farmer in the US was managing his deer. He made some great points about predator control. He said shooting predators is great, its lots of fun, but its not going to have an impact on the predator population. He gets a chance or shoots 5-6 coyote a year on his farm around his deers food plot. He sets traps, and he sets multiple traps because where one trap will work, so will 5 traps. In a square mile over a very short period of time he trapped 29 coyotes!

So while I plan on doing some predator hunting, we can't look at that as a solution to bring down the number of predators. It has to be trapping or other means, hunters simply can't do it

[CAC]

1. Resource road reclamation. Great article here on the topic: http://hunterconservationist.ca/the-impact-of-resource-roads-on-british-columbias-wildlife/
2. Implement laws such as "It's unlawful to carry a weapon on an OHV between 1 hour before sunrise and the following noon during an open season for big game on public land."
3. Open Archery seasons as done in Alberta not bookends on the regular season.

[New Bow Hunter]

Open it wide open any species you want to shoot, any time day or night, any day of the week, any month of the year whether it's for food or sport.
Now we have eliminated all species we used to enjoy hunting.
Take the family on a safari and reminisce how you and your father and grandfather used to hunt them.
If there is no wildlife to hunt, then there will be far less guns in the hands of us.
Is this not what governments want?
With the present Provincial / Federal government atmosphere on Wildlife Numbers/Habitat, your blowing smoke.
Think of Joni Mitchell's song, Big Yellow Taxi

[mpotzold]

You think bears kill more moose than wolves? Every wolf shit is full of moose hair, every bear shit is full of berries. I agree they take some, and in some areas the grizz would take a serious toll, but a wolf pack kills a moose a week. I would guess wolves are the number one killer, more than all others combined

I'm basing it on the thorough studies done in Alaska where killing wolves had little effect on moose numbers & killing bears made all the difference. One grizz killed almost 40 newborns & that's not counting the others he killed. There are similar studies elsewhere.

As I wrote many times we have been hunting 5-03 & surrounding areas for over 50 years & saw what happened to the moose numbers with the ever increasing bear numbers. We hardly saw bears back in the 60's, 70's & 80's & a few years ago I counted 14 in a couple days or so.
All the hunters we talked to agreed about the unprecedented bear numbers & the declining moose numbers.

The bear's sense of smell is 2100X better than ours & the dog's is 100X better. The vulnerable calf has little chance once located. They say that the bear is capable of smelling prey from miles away.

[Bugle M In]

Okay, I had a read, and warning! if you thought some of my posts can be long winded, you may not want to read this!
But you all should!
There are some really good points here in this article.
Example is of everybody in one of the States pointing fingers for the decline of elk at wolves, but, after the RMEF got involved, it wasn't wolves, but rather Cougars.
I am not saying some people are wrong here, but I think people don't understand how complex the situation/s are thru out the province, depending where, and depending upon which species is in trouble.
Take a few minutes to read, as I think it's time to it back and really re-evaluate where we go from here:
(it states EK, but there is a lot more in this article that applies to this thread,imo)
http://hunterconservationist.ca/are-hunters-undermining-wildlife-conservation-in-the-east-kootenay/

[Haydenmk]

BC mule deer population needs some help in the interior.
#1. 4 point bucks all year. No more any buck in October.. Should help the population grow, and allow for more big bucks.
#2. Predator control.
That's my opinion.

[warnniklz]

BC mule deer population needs some help in the interior.
#1. 4 point bucks all year. No more any buck in October.. Should help the population grow, and allow for more big bucks.
#2. Predator control.
That's my opinion.

I like the idea of it, but...

There's people out here, go shoot a little spiker, hunting season is done. Then there's reduced pressure on the big boys. If the little guys spend the first two years of their life not being shot at, then when they turn to a legal buck, they're less cagey.

Just my anecdotal opinion

[Haydenmk]

You do have a point there, but I think any mature buck has the instinct to survive and avoid any possible threat. Especially when they see their buddies get shot by humans. We could get rid of the LEH mule doe to help the population too.
I also agree with the grizzly hunt being open again.

[Wild one]

Research into the effects of herbicide used in forestry

Grizz hunt reinstated

remove cow/doe leh in areas where the species is on the decline

This is just three options I see valid that most would not argue with. Truth is BC is a mess and needs change on many levels

As for more restrictions hunting regs wise it’s going to happen. BC has the some of the longest GOS and liberal opportunity in Canada. BC also has ungulate populations declining beyond anywhere else in Canada. BC is behind most of North America when it comes to management tools relying on basically point restrictions or LEH only. There are ways to limit impact well having hunting opportunities beyond these methods. BC hunters really need to look into the negatives of point restrictions and why this was abandoned in majority of North America.

BC needs way more then hunting reg changes to turn things around

[j270wsm]

BC mule deer population needs some help in the interior.
#1. 4 point bucks all year. No more any buck in October.. Should help the population grow, and allow for more big bucks.
#2. Predator control.
That's my opinion.


Most if not all of the east kootenays has been 4pt + for the better part of 20yrs......not seeing a huge increase of deer because of it. Need all the local houndsmen to actually shoot some cats that continually live in the wintering range.

[HappyJack]

Nothing makes me want to vomit more than hunters asking for more restrictions instead of more habitat, and wolf, bear, yote control.
Shut this down, shorten this, close that, limit access, what a bunch of crap.

Second that one.

[HappyJack]

Stop spraying herbicides [poison] all over BC.

Suspend outfitter allocations until the need for resident LEH is gone. [saving mature breeding animals until populations rebound]

Simplify hunting regulations so the average hunter can understand them and have MU lines follow major roads/rivers\pipelines\powerlines so people know exactly which MU they are hunting in.

[RobU]

I must say too. I’m not a fan of the accompany to hunt right now. Went to skooks landing boat launch.... it’s half Alberta plates. Thinking this could be suspended until our critically low populations rebound.

[Wild one]

I must say too. I’m not a fan of the accompany to hunt right now. Went to skooks landing boat launch.... it’s half Alberta plates. Thinking this could be suspended until our critically low populations rebound.

With the amount of B.C. hunters that hunt in Alberta and apply for draws in the same pool as the Alberta residents decreasing odds of the residents I think this one is a two way street

Little tip about Alberta plates as well lots of guys work in Alberta, use Alberta vehicle insurance and are B.C. residents

[.264winmag]

Stop spraying herbicides [poison] all over BC.

Suspend outfitter allocations until the need for resident LEH is gone. [saving mature breeding animals until populations rebound]

Simplify hunting regulations so the average hunter can understand them and have MU lines follow major roads/rivers\pipelines\powerlines so people know exactly which MU they are hunting in.

can get on board with the first two, but there's no excuse for not knowing the mu boundaries these days...

[HappyJack]

can get on board with the first two, but there's no excuse for not knowing the mu boundaries these days...

Sometimes the CO'S don't even know where the boundaries are. I'm saying they should follow clear lines that are easy to determine by the simplist means possible. We drove a FSR a couple weeks ago that starts in 7-10. A few miles down the road a sign said it was 7-12...then a little further 7-11 then further yet 7-12 again. Its all fine if you stay on the main road but start taking side roads and it would be easy to cross a boundary with no idea you had.

[Greenthumbed]

Sometimes the CO'S don't even know where the boundaries are. I'm saying they should follow clear lines that are easy to determine by the simplist means possible. We drove a FSR a couple weeks ago that starts in 7-10. A few miles down the road a sign said it was 7-12...then a little further 7-11 then further yet 7-12 again. Its all fine if you stay on the main road but start taking side roads and it would be easy to cross a boundary with no idea you had.
Hey Happy,
i don't know. Maybe you aren't the kinda guy that uses cell phone while hunting. I can respect that. I use my phone as a gps while in the backcountry and I use a couple of different apps. If ever I am wondering about what MU I'm in, or if I'm on private land, or if I have a question about the regulations I look to the Hunt Buddy app. It's a good one. Check it out if you haven't already.