Sustenance hunt?????

[j270wsm]

Not sure how this will go over with the mods.....please don't turn this into the usual native bashing. I'm just trying to pass the info along. If you feel that this isn't sustenance then call and complain.

Aslo keep in mind that this guy drove 2hrs and then hiked another 2-3hrs to kill a 190ram for sustenance.


This message is for all sheep hunters or hunters in-general. XXXXXXXXXXXX from Cranbrook has killed a big horn in dry creek after the season claiming indian status. The ram is rumoured over 190. This is trophy hunting not sustenance. Here is a number to call to voice your concerns 250-489-8540 leave a message and mention his name and dry creek. With talking to the game wardens this is one of the best ways to voice your concerns. We have to get together and put a stop to this. THIS IS STRAIGHT OUT POACHING PERIOD. Forward this message to every hunter to take action against these poachers and if you are a wildlife club member voice your concerns to you club president. It takes 1 minute make the call.

[lorneparker1]

well calling someone by name out without any proof other then hearsay on the internet probably wont go over well..

[ACB]

Sure, O.K. it was a sustenance hunt, wink, wink, nod, nod, know what I mean? O.K. sustenance hunt, shouldn't get to keep cape or horns, pretty simple.

[Drillbit]

Food, Social, or Ceremonial purposes.

[MattB]

As far as sheep go, at least it was a mature ram and not a younger ram or ewe. If a first nations person wants to take a sheep why not shoot a mature ram?

[triggerhappy]

Where did you get this info from? Is there a news article or something? I need some sort of validation beyond what some random dude on the Internet tells me before taking any action.

[Blainer]

As far as sheep go, at least it was a mature ram and not a younger ram or ewe. If a first nations person wants to take a sheep why not shoot a mature ram?is that the same ram that we dream about?
knowing that the possibility in a lifetime for the draw is extremely unlikely.
These sheep are well funded, well managed with many volunteer hours being donated, not to mention the monies created for sheep conservation.
I believe we should all follow the same rules regarding the best interest of the sheep.
Certain species under conservation concerns, caribou, sheep and others should not be on a sustenance hunting program.
Just my opinion

[Ourea]

I am curious to see some actual facts on this.
Sure the response and condemnation will be fast and furious if this indeed the case.
There is little room for unregulated killing of funded and highly sensitive species.

[wideopenthrottle]

http://www.hastingstribune.com/sports/doug-leier-uncertainty-continues-to-surround-north-dakota-s-bighorn/article_fc59809c-2acd-54c7-9881-86b3cd67abaa.html

sorry for hijack but found this interesting article while searching for more about this story...mods can move it if they see fit..:oops:

Doug Leier: Uncertainty continues to surround North Dakota’s bighorn sheep population

By Doug Leier Grand Forks Herald (TNS)
Oct 24, 2018






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GRAND FORKS, N.D. — North Dakota doesn’t have many bighorn sheep, but vast appreciation and genuine curiosity from hunters and nonhunters alike more than compensates for lack of population.
As evidence of that, in March 2018, a record 14,617 prospective hunters submitted an application for a North Dakota bighorn sheep license. With two lottery licenses eventually made available, that equates to odds of more than 7,000 to 1 for drawing a license.
For those who may not realize, the bighorn sheep fills a niche as the only kind of wild sheep in the state. North Dakota had native bighorn sheep, but they were extirpated or gone from the state in the early 1900s. The state did not have any wild sheep from that time until the mid-1950s, when bighorns from British Columbia were transplanted here.
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/hastingstribune.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/bannerad/4/14/4147ddee-c62d-11e7-a146-3b73cffd6e1e/5a05c80ce089f.image.jpg (http://hastingstribune.com/tncms/tracking/bannerad/clicks/?rd=www.google.ca&i=ros/fixed-big-ad-top-asset1/4147ddee-c62d-11e7-a146-3b73cffd6e1e&r=http://www.hastingsfcu.org/ASP/home.asp)


Managing bighorn sheep in North Dakota has been a challenge, at times, particularly in recent years, when a disease called bacterial pneumonia began making its way through the state’s sheep population. While the sheep population was not necessarily decimated, it did experience losses since the disease first was discovered in 2014.
The latest numbers, compiled during the recent summer survey in July and August, are encouraging. While biologists counted 77 rams during the summer survey, 12 fewer than 2017 and 27 fewer than 2016, there was some better news in the ewe and lamb counts, according to North Dakota Game and Fish Department big game biologist Brett Wiedmann.
“The good news is we counted 47 lambs during the summer portion of the survey; that is a pretty high count,” Wiedmann said. “The caveat is that about more than half of them were coughing, showing signs of pneumonia. So what we do is we will go out in March and recount those lambs to determine how many will be recruited into the population and survive their first winter.”
Wiedmann is cautious, however, as 2017 had the second-lowest lamb recruitment on record, with only four yearling rams observed during the summer survey a year ago. “Encouragingly, no adult animals within the herds that were exposed to disease in 2014 showed clinical signs of pneumonia, and the summer lamb count in those herds improved,” Wiedmann said.
The next few years will be important in determining if the state’s sheep population continues to show signs of recovering from the disease outbreak, or if the disease is likely to persist and cause a long-term population decline.
For 2018, Game and Fish issued one lottery license each for sheep units B3 and B4.
In addition, one license, as authorized under North Dakota Century Code, was auctioned this past spring by the Midwest Chapter of the Wild Sheep Foundation, from which all proceeds are used to enhance bighorn sheep management in North Dakota.
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/hastingstribune.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/bannerad/8/fc/8fc8702e-a7bd-11e8-8ce0-271c73e9370f/5b8036ebbeca7.image.jpg (http://hastingstribune.com/tncms/tracking/bannerad/clicks/?rd=www.google.ca&i=ros/fixed-big-ad-middle-asset1/8fc8702e-a7bd-11e8-8ce0-271c73e9370f&r=http://www.regrouphastings.com)


Similar to last year, Game and Fish announced in February that the status of the bighorn sheep hunting season would be determined after completion of the summer population survey. Prospective hunters were required to apply for a bighorn license in March.
———
©2018 Grand Forks Herald (Grand Forks, N.D.)
Visit the Grand Forks Herald (Grand Forks, N.D.) at www.grandforksherald.com (http://www.grandforksherald.com/)
Distributed by Tribune Content Agency, LLC. (http://www.tribunecontentagency.com/)

[IronNoggin]

I can find no other references to this matter on the net despite some rather heavy searching...

If true, it constitutes just as much a sustenance hunt as did the Race Based Trophy Hunt in the National Park last year.

Disgusting.
Nog

[ramcam]

Pretty sure J270 has it right, just got off the phone with COs and their phone lines are lighting up. Hunters in the East Kootenays are not happy
with this bullshit happening, just remember the guy from Fernie years ago shooting a ram over the bait station on the Salmo Creston pass, he shot it with a
bow so he could get in the Pope and Young and the Boone and Crockett. He claimed sustenance as well. Back fired on him and the loser got what was coming to him, I hope
this guy if the rumors are true gets the same if not worse penalty.

[HighCountryBC]

It is true.

Ram went 194..

[Mtn Wonderer]

When are we going to stop the kind of wildlife abuse!!!! If you want to shoot a Ram, do it as the regulations permit!!!
How long is this going to go one every year!!! and we are told to just lump it!!!!

[Bugle M In]

Heard someone just shot a "Lamb" (sheep) this past week right in the town of Spences Bridge.
This may not be an FN, but again, I just cant believe what extent someone will go to and more importantly
"WHY"???

All I know is, if it was "dealt with severe punishment", it would stop, or atleast be reduced immensely.
Pathetic if both cases are true.

[Jelvis]

Bugle Me Inn -- > :confused: no lamb it's too small, no ram, it's too big? Sounds like you want it closed down completely? No size for you is proper? :cry:
Jelvis the Pelly Vis --? :tongue: You have to make up your mind first then tell udders what to do! People need to realize the more you complain about no sheep,

[Weatherby Fan]

Heard someone just shot a "Lamb" (sheep) this past week right in the town of Spences Bridge.
This may not be an FN, but again, I just cant believe what extent someone will go to and more importantly
"WHY"???

All I know is, if it was "dealt with severe punishment", it would stop, or atleast be reduced immensely.

Pathetic if both cases are true.

Yeh it was two white males, just watched a short video clip of the asshats on FB

[LBM]

It is true.

Ram went 194..

You got some pictures

[Jelvis]

That is why it's good that you can apply to win a sheep raffle with an advertiser on here HBC, it gives you the chance to get out and get a sheep legally and with great success -- Wild Sheep Raffles on here -- sheep society is where you should be putting some money for a lucky chance and support together --
Jelvis -- try a sheep raffle on here and who knows you could be out there in the rocks looking ----> use this sites people for favor ----> help each other

[Weatherby Fan]

https://cfjctoday.com/…/raw-video-men-suspected-poaching-wi… (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcfjctoday.com%2Farticle%2F64 5194%2Fraw-video-men-suspected-poaching-wild-sheep-near-spences-bridge%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR3DIHP8Gy13_pfI9FWLnSeatvaJV7 Qk8FWgmqe4_KNJ7Sh__JrrlsGSdaw&h=AT3tA0EW1PdE55s9jNm1y1-vnll-vRmRSzQjxRKn68Tuy7DVnLcT4Ta8-Mv0mObKD7EkbThSQjld9NtnJwROcfQ3fmAXFe9bneQ7hty5mya Ax5w0kSuweq1MEyMJL5QtI6mmsj6F2C23Ns8bA8GGd9RdK2WNi 5D2OJbzIDEio2lEsoxjcjMHUDv9mROe0xS5GQISWdw7rCIXCMn jszPaUKVEsGGoIdElVONQlwev9-adQrr8UKen2uUu5Bwj2QtQE6XFFBPp_hdDd3Chzs-eURAdOeD2hMzQugCvqN_vTYRx28pY5wHKuykQSHDn3l3q0TFED z0tsLQYT1pE4OE4ccu5m4G2WfeC17U1sGUYTPjT0kVO05GcdZA S4Yyu_HYdHgg37ksFiFcjjrnepOcoBgdZ97zhH9sS3hVhgcl0B rzkF5pu1xWgsuCj3MuuxYyCcjrtrbHqdUItRCgwPPv2fPvg66g lhpagrynmGL2TnnIOg7aAjfFczPYRgKKUwbGiPuW5tWHlNVHW4 p2o7VlAR9zkoBMO4SR8ZF59VSau4-nMzVnpr-YUS-QLXu4zJh3a9Jg9n9zsRURHndhvZgsOkrfyI7dSVnRGNi8L2cKh iIZ6eTDGbN_pS7OonzxwoWJ9EpJwjuZ96cF-I2ZD)

Link to short video of poachers at Spences Bridge

[j270wsm]

My opinion is that shooting a 190" ram off the top of a mountain with no road access isn't a sustenance hunt. It's a trophy hunt!! And that is why I posted it here. Hopefully something comes from all of the complaints.

[VLD43]

My opinion is that shooting a 190" ram off the top of a mountain with no road access isn't a sustenance hunt. It's a trophy hunt!! And that is why I posted it here. Hopefully something comes from all of the complaints.

In my mind, the reality is, this is poaching, just like what happens in Africa, with elephants and rhinos. Pathetic to say the least. What some people will do for ego and money.

[180grainer]

How much you think that guy could sell that ram for? That's most likely why the guy shot it.

[eastkoot]

Google him, not his first rodeo..

[VLD43]

How much you think that guy could sell that ram for? That's most likely why the guy shot it.

If memory serves correctly, I believe there was a thread on this site a few years back about a couple of locals at Spences Bridge shooting a couple of good rams on the Murray Crk road near Arthurs Seat in Late November. The thread suggested they had shot the rams simply to sell as trophies. Shot under the same scenario--"Sustenance". I would imagine a 190 Ram may sell for 5 figures to the right person, but only guessing.

[.264winmag]

Although I do not agree with it, I could see the 'ceremonial' card being played. Perhaps this ceremony calls for a 180"+ ram HASad, but true.

[Islandeer]

Another reason why I have no respect for this culture.
I might if their grande chiefs came down hard on this type of abuse.
They won’t because they can spin it in a thousand ways.
Cultural and eco- terrorism.

[skibum]

You sheep hunters are nutzzzz.

God damn things are like rats on the golf course around here.

Don't get the status of those horns that causes dudes to drop 50 - 100 grand on one of those stupid things

[LBM]

You sheep hunters are nutzzzz.

God damn things are like rats on the golf course around here.

Don't get the status of those horns that causes dudes to drop 50 - 100 grand on one of those stupid things

This dosent just happen with sheep, pretty much all species.

[ACE]

Who has the head/meat now. F&W should plug that head, if they haven't already. This will knock the value way down.
Shame . . . I remember the Salmo/Creston ram. I believe the bronze? casting at Salmo is of the poached ram.

[Bugle M In]

Yeh it was two white males, just watched a short video clip of the asshats on FB


Bugle Me Inn -- > :confused: no lamb it's too small, no ram, it's too big? Sounds like you want it closed down completely? No size for you is proper? :cry:
Jelvis the Pelly Vis --? :tongue: You have to make up your mind first then tell udders what to do! People need to realize the more you complain about no sheep,

Uhmmm….medication time there again buddy!
I never said anything about "no sheep".
Even said it wasn't likely to be FN (this time)
Just that I was informed some peckerheads went and shot a young lamb, right in the town of SB!
Just cant understand the rationale on that.

But hey, since you want to "push buttons"
Remember the young rams all shot up in Lyton, and left for dead.
Need I remind all which group that was.!!??
And the lack of "prosecution".
Just another sweat lodge retreat and a pee pee slap.

[Jimbob]

FN have the right to hunt the way they want, we cannot really dictate what is right or wrong for them. Is it ok for them to shoot a 5 yr old ram? what about a ewe?

Anyways, the only issue/concern that can be addressed with FN hunting is to ensure the species can handle it. If a species is declining or not healthy enough to support hunting then FN or anyone else does not have the right to hunt them. I would be onboard criticizing a hunt that was threatening a species but I am not going to criticize an FN because he shot a big animal and put in the effort to do it, actually more power to him.

We get mad that FN's drive around in their trucks shooting immature animals and now we are getting mad that they are putting in the effort and hunting hard to take a mature specimen. Seems like a lot of hate no matter what the situation is.

[digger dogger]

FN have the right to hunt the way they want, we cannot really dictate what is right or wrong for them. Is it ok for them to shoot a 5 yr old ram? what about a ewe?

Anyways, the only issue/concern that can be addressed with FN hunting is to ensure the species can handle it. If a species is declining or not healthy enough to support hunting then FN or anyone else does not have the right to hunt them. I would be onboard criticizing a hunt that was threatening a species but I am not going to criticize an FN because he shot a big animal and put in the effort to do it, actually more power to him.

We get mad that FN's drive around in their trucks shooting immature animals and now we are getting mad that they are putting in the effort and hunting hard to take a mature specimen. Seems like a lot of hate no matter what the situation is.

We are all supposed to follow the seasons and adhere by the LEH REGULATIONS, Jimbob.

[Jelvis]

Jimbob I can hear your frustration, it's a no win situation, too small- too big, sounds like a couple of my X's Hahahahahaha
--you try your darndest to please and then they got yah on yer knees
some people hate and don;t relegate, don't care and give an evil stare

Jelly The De Looshinal Poet --> Yah got my jaw flappin I gotta start rappin gotta go Koko moe -- c you later aligator - after awhile crocodile --

[cpwrestler]

FN have the right to hunt the way they want, we cannot really dictate what is right or wrong for them. Is it ok for them to shoot a 5 yr old ram? what about a ewe?

Anyways, the only issue/concern that can be addressed with FN hunting is to ensure the species can handle it. If a species is declining or not healthy enough to support hunting then FN or anyone else does not have the right to hunt them. I would be onboard criticizing a hunt that was threatening a species but I am not going to criticize an FN because he shot a big animal and put in the effort to do it, actually more power to him.

We get mad that FN's drive around in their trucks shooting immature animals and now we are getting mad that they are putting in the effort and hunting hard to take a mature specimen. Seems like a lot of hate no matter what the situation is.

Have to [sadly] agree. It's very frustrating to hear of an apparently cranker of a ram being shot in a situation outside of the rules for most people, but the reality is the rules ARE different for FN and not just on average animals. We often talk as hunters about the importance of taking animals who are old and have had chance to pass on the genes, that's one of the reasons we take "trophy" class animals. While it's more frustrating because now the opportunity is lost for everyone else, at least it wasn't a ewe which would have impacted the reproductive capacity of the herd. All I can say is that it sucks, but as long he followed "their" rules, there's not much that can be done... I mean given the legally entrenched rights provided to FN to hunt and fish, what do you want things changed to? You can only hunt immature animals or ewes? I say that's worse.

[ACE]

'Sustenance' hunt . . . .
Sustenance is derived from the words 'to sustain' . . . .
Did the poacher fingered in this travesty need that ram to be able to sustain himself ?
He's a bad joke on hunters of any color/stripe . . .

[Jelvis]

Sustain the human ding dong holy, the sustenance is to feed the hungry and elderly the meat for protein -- it's sustain the human not the animal in this case!
Ace hasn't got a card uo his sleeve Hahahahahaha
Jel -- A human needs to eat -- to sustain him or herself Hahahahaha -- some people's hahahaha

[j270wsm]

FN have the right to hunt the way they want, we cannot really dictate what is right or wrong for them. Is it ok for them to shoot a 5 yr old ram? what about a ewe?

Anyways, the only issue/concern that can be addressed with FN hunting is to ensure the species can handle it. If a species is declining or not healthy enough to support hunting then FN or anyone else does not have the right to hunt them. I would be onboard criticizing a hunt that was threatening a species but I am not going to criticize an FN because he shot a big animal and put in the effort to do it, actually more power to him.

We get mad that FN's drive around in their trucks shooting immature animals and now we are getting mad that they are putting in the effort and hunting hard to take a mature specimen. Seems like a lot of hate no matter what the situation is.


Yes, FN's have the right to hunt for sustenance . Consider the fact that he lives in cranbrook and could have shot an elk or deer within minuets of his house....is driving 2hrs and hiking another 2-3hrs to shoot a 190" ram sustenance hunting?? It's funny how some FN will shoot the first animal they can and claim sustenance but others shoot trophy class animals for sustenance.

Though I have no issue with sustenance hunting I feel that when certain species are harvested as sustenance, the trophy portion should have to be turned over to the ministry!!

This area is not leh!! The big Rams don't move into this area until the last few days of October or early November.

[Wild one]

Do I agree with it nope but odds are he is within his rights as a FN. this has nothing to do with it being a big ram but instead think we should all be under the same regulations

[Bugle M In]

Funny argument with this whole sustenance hunt (part of it anyways) is this:

FN can not digest regular red meat, it has to be wild. (just like the alcohol argument).
Explain to me why every time I am either headed up thru Hope or back down thru Hope at stop at McD's that
the place is filled mostly with FN!!??
Thought they cant eat "regular meat".???

Yup, inside the rights been given to them, but the "divide" continuous to grow!

[bckoothunter]

This was not a sustenance hunt, period. This time of year large mature rams that typically reside on mine property leave for the rut and to winter. Access to them becomes much easier and also allows one to look over many more record book rams.This ram was targeted purely as a trophy, nothing more. It’s sad and frustrating that this is allowed to occur. Sitting back and keeping quiet will not bring change, this type of abuse needs to be ended.

[Jimbob]

????? Where in the laws does it say they can only hunt for sustenance? I am not aware of this.

Also, I know they have the right for commercial harvest. They are allowed to hunt/harvest animals to sustain themselves financially. That means if the gentleman sells the bighorn ram horns for money then he is certainly in his rights to do so.

[wideopenthrottle]

yes sustenance...as in sustaining a fat bank account...doh!

[VLD43]

FN have the right to hunt the way they want, we cannot really dictate what is right or wrong for them. Is it ok for them to shoot a 5 yr old ram? what about a ewe?

Anyways, the only issue/concern that can be addressed with FN hunting is to ensure the species can handle it. If a species is declining or not healthy enough to support hunting then FN or anyone else does not have the right to hunt them. I would be onboard criticizing a hunt that was threatening a species but I am not going to criticize an FN because he shot a big animal and put in the effort to do it, actually more power to him.

We get mad that FN's drive around in their trucks shooting immature animals and now we are getting mad that they are putting in the effort and hunting hard to take a mature specimen. Seems like a lot of hate no matter what the situation is.

What you have stated here is at best a broad interpretation of FN rights. FN have said numerous time that they are the keepers of the land and respect all of nature. Fair enough. If you are going to talk the talk, then walk the walk. Also, they may have the right, they also have a responsibility in my mind to lead by example. Hunting seasons are set for a reason. Conservation and fair chase being two of the objectives. It is very easy to hunt outside a prescribed season and especially the rut, and be successful. But with species like sheep, which are a species of concern, biologists limit hunting activities during the rut, because these animals are so vulnerable.

As to the sustenance discussion, I have heard it interpreted that "Sustenance" does not necessarily mean hunting or fishing for food, it can also mean hunting to selling game to live off of. Sad but true. Either way the act of taking game out of season truly sheds light on the character of some people, in my opinion.

[.308SLAYER]

Jimmy Bob trying to get the boys going...looks like its already done like others have said people are butthurt when immature animals are shot and but hurt when crankers are shot...pretty safe to say no matter what fn harvest people are gonna b butthurt and rightfully so....

[Wild one]

????? Where in the laws does it say they can only hunt for sustenance? I am not aware of this.

Also, I know they have the right for commercial harvest. They are allowed to hunt/harvest animals to sustain themselves financially. That means if the gentleman sells the bighorn ram horns for money then he is certainly in his rights to do so.

I am no expert but I did not think FN have the right to sell game

[Jimbob]

What you have stated here is at best a broad interpretation of FN rights. FN have said numerous time that they are the keepers of the land and respect all of nature. Fair enough. If you are going to talk the talk, then walk the walk. Also, they may have the right, they also have a responsibility in my mind to lead by example. Hunting seasons are set for a reason. Conservation and fair chase being two of the objectives. It is very easy to hunt outside a prescribed season and especially the rut, and be successful. But with species like sheep, which are a species of concern, biologists limit hunting activities during the rut, because these animals are so vulnerable.

As to the sustenance discussion, I have heard it interpreted that "Sustenance" does not necessarily mean hunting or fishing for food, it can also mean hunting to selling game to live off of. Sad but true. Either way the act of taking game out of season truly sheds light on the character of some people, in my opinion.

If a herd cannot support any harvesting then I am 100% against ANYBODY that kills one. No one has a right to threaten the viability of a species, laws also back that up. If the argument against this ram hunt was that the population cannot support it that then I am fully onboard with that, BUT that was not the argument.

[Bugle M In]

I am no expert but I did not think FN have the right to sell game

Nope, as far as I know they cant sell things like antlers/horns.
The FN who took the world record Rosie a few years ago out of the Pitt tried to sell it.
Someone stopped him (not sure who?)
Now it just rots in the backyard I have been told.

[VLD43]

If a herd cannot support any harvesting then I am 100% against ANYBODY that kills one. No one has a right to threaten the viability of a species, laws also back that up. If the argument against this ram hunt was that the population cannot support it that then I am fully onboard with that, BUT that was not the argument.

I think your missing the point somewhat. Aside from any conservation concerns, it is a question of Ethics and responsible actions. I like yourself, have the ability to hunt anytime I like, but we both abide by the rules (laws), and only hunt at prescribed times of the year. As I stated in an earlier post, if your going to advertise yourself and your community as conservationists, you had better follow through, or you will be seen as the hypocrite you truly are, and suffer the condemnation of your peers. I believe this is exactly what you are seeing by many who are posting here. Further more using the excuse that it is a traditional right established over generations to hunt anytime you like, may have worked in the past. With habitat loss and diminishing wildlife populations as they presently are, hunting outside established seasons is unsustainable and will lead to loss of any hereditary right as game populations will not withstand the pressure.

[Jimbob]

Nope, as far as I know they cant sell things like antlers/horns.
The FN who took the world record Rosie a few years ago out of the Pitt tried to sell it.
Someone stopped him (not sure who?)
Now it just rots in the backyard I have been told.

They can sell, court cases have upheld this. Tricky to sell game meat though that has not been processed by a government inspected facility. Also, the government can restrict who possess wild game. So the FN can sell but you might not be able to own/possess it. However, some courts have said that even this can infringe on FN rights.

All of this is not black and white though. Some provinces are different, some FN have treaties signed, and some have no treaties at all so it makes things convoluted.

[REMINGTON JIM]

As far as sheep go, at least it was a mature ram and not a younger ram or ewe. If a first nations person wants to take a sheep why not shoot a mature ram?

WHY ?? should ANY first nations person get to harvest any animal then in a legal hunting season witha a legal hunting licence and tag ?? What makes First Nations better then any one else born and raised here ? Getting Pretty ***en Tired of this Bullsh*t ! :twisted: RJ

[Jimbob]

I think your missing the point somewhat. Aside from any conservation concerns, it is a question of Ethics and responsible actions. I like yourself, have the ability to hunt anytime I like, but we both abide by the rules (laws), and only hunt at prescribed times of the year. As I stated in an earlier post, if your going to advertise yourself and your community as conservationists, you had better follow through, or you will be seen as the hypocrite you truly are, and suffer the condemnation of your peers. I believe this is exactly what you are seeing by many who are posting here. Further more using the excuse that it is a traditional right established over generations to hunt anytime you like, may have worked in the past. With habitat loss and diminishing wildlife populations as they presently are, hunting outside established seasons is unsustainable and will lead to loss of any hereditary right as game populations will not withstand the pressure.

I'm pretty sure I follow your point. But your point is exactly what FN are fighting and basically what the courts have said is wrong. We cannot impose our ideas of ethics on FN. What is ethical for me and what is ethical for FN are two different things. In a very literal sense poaching does not exist for FN. They do not have a law so how can we accuse them of breaking a law? Yes, if I went and hunted that ram it would be wrong for a variety of reasons. I am bound by a certain set of laws and ethics that are tied to those laws.

I am not saying whether I agree with the above or not but just that it exists. Denying that it exists or not acknowledging that it exists just seems crazy to me. It is a reality upheld by our highest courts.

I think we have to work within this reality and figure the best possible outcomes. If you want to change the opinions/rulings of the supreme court then I think your dreaming. History of events and the way this country was founded has put us into these circumstances and there is no way to change history.

[Alpine85]

Yes, FN's have the right to hunt for sustenance . Consider the fact that he lives in cranbrook and could have shot an elk or deer within minuets of his house....is driving 2hrs and hiking another 2-3hrs to shoot a 190" ram sustenance hunting?? It's funny how some FN will shoot the first animal they can and claim sustenance but others shoot trophy class animals for sustenance.

Though I have no issue with sustenance hunting I feel that when certain species are harvested as sustenance, the trophy portion should have to be turned over to the ministry!!

This area is not leh!! The big Rams don't move into this area until the last few days of October or early November.

He already killed a elk and mule deer this year. Wonder what was wrong with the 4 herds of sheep between his house and the mine? Also curious if Abe’s first preference was the mine or if Kamloops and Salmo came up first?🙄

[Jimbob]

WHY ?? should ANY first nations person get to harvest any animal then in a legal hunting season witha a legal hunting licence and tag ?? What makes First Nations better then any one else born and raised here ? Getting Pretty ***en Tired of this Bullsh*t ! :twisted: RJ

History man. FN had title to the land before Britain arrived. This title was CONFIRMED by Britain. They said that no land could be taken from FN without a treaty or a deal being made. 1. No treaty was made in some places - that means title was never transferred 2. Treaties were made that GAVE FN right over and above the rights that the regular citizens had. Our country was founded on this two-tier system. This is why we are in this messed up situation now. FN were not conquered by Britain.

[REMINGTON JIM]

My opinion is that shooting a 190" ram off the top of a mountain with no road access isn't a sustenance hunt. It's a trophy hunt!! And that is why I posted it here. Hopefully something comes from all of the complaints.

I AGREE for sure TROPHY hunt ! RJ

[ramcam]

WHY ?? should ANY first nations person get to harvest any animal then in a legal hunting season witha a legal hunting licence and tag ?? What makes First Nations better then any one else born and raised here ? Getting Pretty ***en Tired of this Bullsh*t ! :twisted: RJ
Amen Remington Jim, all Canadians but two sets of rules, pure bullshit !

[warnniklz]

I'll admit I haven't read everything on this thread or regarding the thread... but it seems like it's going sideways...

but I say we all push to get status cards...

[Kootenaykid85]

He already killed a elk and mule deer this year. Wonder what was wrong with the 4 herds of sheep between his house and the mine? Also curious if Abe’s first preference was the mine or if Kamloops and Salmo came up first?


please elaborate? Am I thinking the right abe? If so Maby they should
make sure this ram wasn’t shot 18km into Alberta

[Alpine85]

please elaborate? Am I thinking the right abe? If so Maby they should
make sure this ram wasn’t shot 18km into Alberta

Haha same guy.

[Jelvis]

The way we do it in the North Thompson and the area around for sheep, is we have an agreement among the Indians not to shoot those sheep everyone can see around the area.
No one can make an Indian not shoot them legally butt the bands agreed not to shoot or kill those particular sheep, Cali's. Brought in as a pilot project in the 60's
C.O. can't stop them, cop can't stop them , the chief can't stop a Status Indian from sustenance hunting -- so
-- Not to get everyone riled no one shoots those sheep as a gesture of support for community wellness -->
-- If a person has an actual Status Card registered in Ottawa he or she could shoot all of those sheep if he was feeding someone, but because of the community agreement with the Ministry and local sheep clubs, the bands had meetings addressing this issue and agreed to be a player with the Kamloops team. Shook hands with all players, and all work together still and more after decades of seeing these sheep flourish --
Jel --> Federal, Provincial two different things -- like the RCMP is Federal and the Vancouver Police are City -- two different levels of enforcement --
I'm just trying to explain how it works without getting anyone overly adversarial, this is the way it is so You or I ain't going to change it.
--> If you can get the government to make all people who ride pedal bikes or motor bikes to wear helmets then we can talk changes to these things ok-

[guest]

Dudes a POACHER.

Period.

One law for all.

[Jelvis]

All people with the same rules in BC? -----> I have to wear a safety helmet when I ride a bike or motor cycle butt I know a certain race that don't need too in BC
-- Ahhh -- same rules for everyone? ______ your full a sheep shit!
---I bet nun of you woody face this guy face to face and tell him what your saying here Hahahahaha, 3 hour hike into the area? You need to be in some kinda shape!
Give this guy a bit of room to wonder, the future we all must ponder, some think of sheep much fonder, he's in form, above the norm, hacked many a storm
---When you get all people or nun to have to wear safety helmets in BC --when riding bikes on the roads, then we tackle these big issues --

Jelly Van Stood Dah Baker -- On the road riding a bike and I have to wear a helmet or get a $ 1000,00 fine and ICBC cancels my claim to fame!
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Am I missing something about everyone the same? Hahahahaha

[canucks6]

Hey give the guy some credit. He played by the rules that our government says he has to go by. Congratulations on nice rice ram is what I would teĺl him. Hopefully his next few sustenance and ceremonial animals are all grizzly bears.

[Bugle M In]

I'll admit I haven't read everything on this thread or regarding the thread... but it seems like it's going sideways...

but I say we all push to get status cards...

Yup, like the movie Bullworth.
Either we have to get "bred in" to Status.
Or, breed it out!!???
Then you have everyone under same rules.

[LBM]

Hey give the guy some credit. He played by the rules that our government says he has to go by. Congratulations on nice rice ram is what I would teĺl him. Hopefully his next few sustenance and ceremonial animals are all grizzly bears.
Then why was the salmo/crestom ram taking away

[REMINGTON JIM]

'Sustenance' hunt . . . .
Sustenance is derived from the words 'to sustain' . . . .
Did the poacher fingered in this travesty need that ram to be able to sustain himself ?
He's a bad joke on hunters of any color/stripe . . .

YUP ! :mad: RJ

[REMINGTON JIM]

Hey give the guy some credit. He played by the rules that our government says he has to go by. Congratulations on nice rice ram is what I would teĺl him. Hopefully his next few sustenance and ceremonial animals are all grizzly bears.

I HOPE a G BEAR eats the BAST*ARD ! That would make my day ! :smile: RJ

[Jelvis]

RJ easy to say on here butt at your age I don't think it woody be a goody idea Hahahahaha

Jel -- ok over the internet butt don't try that with this guy holy face to face? How old are you? Someone said you were in your 70's?

[canucks6]

What's the difference between this ram taken or all the elk the colville band comes up in august to the west koots and kills. To me that sheep is a trophy but to my neighbour a calf elk is the best trophy meat there is. U get the point..... The system is flawed. It's only going to get worse so get used to it.

[Jelvis]

Anyone that hikes 3 hours into the rocky - steep - mountainous terrain and is able to hunt down a ram, and then pack it out for another five hours is a guy I respect, one way or other, this fella ain't going to be bad mouthed by me.

Jelly Thee Pelly Viss -- hold it noo nooo rawwww k nooo dis iz dah rocko and i ain't listenig to ba mouthi my bro in hod it noooo
Gotta go!

[Kootenaykid85]

^
Abe is that you?

[Islandeer]

What's the difference between this ram taken or all the elk the colville band comes up in august to the west koots and kills. To me that sheep is a trophy but to my neighbour a calf elk is the best trophy meat there is. U get the point..... The system is flawed. It's only going to get worse so get used to it.

So what if we didn’t get used to the idea of a certain ethnic group hiding behind an unjust Court ruling.
Canadians do not have to accept this travesty.
Oppose, there is nothing good to be gained by bowing to this ridiculous belief system.

So called First Nation people remember we all came from the same place,so get a job and look after your family, take responsibility for your future.

[40incher]

Don't go glamorizing a cull ... a cull is a cull.

This cull has been an embarrasment to real hunters for quite some time.

He and his like are poachers ... and won't change until they are shamed for what they really are.

[Jelvis]

Let's not forget hunters that these Cali sheep were brought into BC from California decades ago, just like the pheasant isn't from Canada.

Jel -- let's realize these sheep twist grass with the tung and rip it out, the mule deer nibble. Mule deer are native to BC - Pheasants, and Cali sheep are imported.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Don't go glamorizing a cull ... a cull is a cull.

This cull has been an embarrasment to real hunters for quite some time.

He and his like are poachers ... and won't change until they are shamed for what they really are.


Jelvis should read THIS . RJ

[Jelvis]

RJ ?

Jel ---> yah who knows he's gone out right now with one of his girl friends --

[REMINGTON JIM]

Jelvis.... Take your Meds and go to Bed ! RJ

[Jelvis]

Hey I see where your ah eh no noo rahhhh

-
hey gotta go
Jel --

[silvertipp]

Jelvis you continually call the racist card because you need to were a helmit

How do you think everyone else feels when the keepers of the land continue to show complete disrespect for the laws of our country
the for fathers of these people should be embarrassed it's about time they learn how to hunt instead of taking the easy way out all the time
we're is the Sense of accomplishment
shooting at night ,out of season ,parks exc
i would be embarrassed to shoot an animal that no one else could hunt and hang it on my wall

[.264winmag]

Let's not forget hunters that these Cali sheep were brought into BC from California decades ago, just like the pheasant isn't from Canada.

Jel -- let's realize these sheep twist grass with the tung and rip it out, the mule deer nibble. Mule deer are native to BC - Pheasants, and Cali sheep are imported.

I remember reading we shipped sheep down south to help their pops out, don't remember reading the opposite.

[.308SLAYER]

Jelvis you continually call the racist card because you need to were a helmit

How do you think everyone else feels when the keepers of the land continue to show complete disrespect for the laws of our country
the for fathers of these people should be embarrassed it's about time they learn how to hunt instead of taking the easy way out all the time
we're is the Sense of accomplishment
shooting at night ,out of season ,parks exc
i would be embarrassed to shoot an animal that no one else could hunt and hang it on my wall

Exact reasons why there is some who follow the rules for self pride and dignity conservation..one of my best friends is status from region 8 dudes a machine taught me most of my Bush skills and a very respectful hunter. I know of another guy who has 4 350 plus okanagon bull elk taken in season. one taken with a bow...some are very respectful and good outdoorsman dont paint all with the same brush

[dana]

Not taking sides here but lets bring in some perspective. Every year I see hunters oogle those with Governor Tags. Guys that have so much money they can buy their way into hunting when no one else can. Heck, we praise these guys. Did you know that every year a rich dude can hunt sheep in a Canadian National Park and you guys clap your hands every year when you see the cranker that was shot? Hmmm

[.264winmag]

Not taking sides here but lets bring in some perspective. Every year I see hunters oogle those with Governor Tags. Guys that have so much money they can buy their way into hunting when no one else can. Heck, we praise these guys. Did you know that every year a rich dude can hunt sheep in a Canadian National Park and you guys clap your hands every year when you see the cranker that was shot? Hmmm

Fair point. All in the name of 'conservation' apparently...

[boxhitch]

I remember reading we shipped sheep down south to help their pops out, don't remember reading the opposite.Cuz he is wrong
Cali's made their way to BC eons ago, round the time of the last ice age

[boxhitch]

Not taking sides here but lets bring in some perspective. Every year I see hunters oogle those with Governor Tags. Guys that have so much money they can buy their way into hunting when no one else can. Heck, we praise these guys. Did you know that every year a rich dude can hunt sheep in a Canadian National Park and you guys clap your hands every year when you see the cranker that was shot? Hmmmwhats that got to do with a ram that is taken outside the parameters of BC hunting regulations that all BC residents are asked to follow ?
I know its just mud slinging .... again..... so whats the point ?

[boxhitch]

Hey give the guy some credit. He played by the rules that our government says he has to go by. Congratulations on nice rice ram is what I would teĺl him. Hopefully his next few sustenance and ceremonial animals are all grizzly bears.No, actually all BC residents are asked to follow the BC hunting regs. No rule says he has to take any critter

[boxhitch]

Haha same guy.How did you make that connection ? A.D. lives in Kamloops, no?

[Jelvis]

It's like a street fight in the night, causes lots of fright, butt everyone likes a tussle, and show some solid muscle, we all can't sing like Jack Russell from Great White.
-- you or I hit the kereoke bar, and sing some tunes and then comes the baboons -- Making loud noises and waving hands around causing a disturbance on purpose
-- If they were fish they'ed be a porpose -- then the talks move to the street, with some really fast feet. Bingy bangy clip and stun hands and feet with power like a gun BOOM!
Your gone to Saigon!
Jelly in Kammy with Rocko dah Jocko the Wanna be socko -- docko -- your going to be in Lah Lah Land with the salmon -- socko salmon - Canned fish --

[browningboy]

Not taking sides here but lets bring in some perspective. Every year I see hunters oogle those with Governor Tags. Guys that have so much money they can buy their way into hunting when no one else can. Heck, we praise these guys. Did you know that every year a rich dude can hunt sheep in a Canadian National Park and you guys clap your hands every year when you see the cranker that was shot? Hmmm


I don’t think a persons net worth should be put against him, they’ve worked for it and they buy a hunt like you buy a tag?
In any case this topic has been echoed to death, the natives keep getting more from our government and honestly they can write their own ticket because all they do is whine...

[boxhitch]

I am no expert but I did not think FN have the right to sell gametraditionally indigens 'traded' meat and fish and other animal products. Now they can trade for cash.
warped, I know

[Jelvis]

Indigenos traded Scotch Whiskey for the first time for beaver, as the Scots hit the coast for the most part and now a go-cart!

Jelly thee Dee Looosh inn al Poet -- you know it! -- You can tip - you can tap -- your jaw can flip - and it can flap --

[northof49]

Exact reasons why there is some who follow the rules for self pride and dignity conservation..one of my best friends is status from region 8 dudes a machine taught me most of my Bush skills and a very respectful hunter. I know of another guy who has 4 350 plus okanagon bull elk taken in season. one taken with a bow...some are very respectful and good outdoorsman dont paint all with the same brush

What is needed is for those that follow the rules to stand up and call out those that don’t. FNs need to publicly call out those that abuse the rights. Good luck with that.

[Weatherby Fan]

Not taking sides here but lets bring in some perspective. Every year I see hunters oogle those with Governor Tags. Guys that have so much money they can buy their way into hunting when no one else can. Heck, we praise these guys. Did you know that every year a rich dude can hunt sheep in a Canadian National Park and you guys clap your hands every year when you see the cranker that was shot? Hmmm

Im pretty sure 100% of the funds collected go back into conservation, and that is something to clap for, with that being said I would rather see it be done by raffle so everyone has a chance.

[Jelvis]

-- I get up every morning - to thee Alarms clock warning -- take the eight fifteen into Mule Deer City -- people pushin people shovin and all dah girls are trying to look pretty --And if the trains on time -- I get to work at nine --
Yah see I like to work at nuttin all day - It's thee work that I avoid look at me I'm self employed.
--- I Love 2 werk at Nuttin all day -- If you ever get annoyed look at me I'm self employed -- Lyin in the sun - have'n so much fun - tell em that you like it that way!
-- It's the work that I avoid - look at me -- I'm Self Employed - and I'm taken care of bees wax every day --
Jelly B.T.O. --- Taken Care of Bees Wax every day -- we like it that way ---> Bachman Turner Over Drive -- be a learner open your mind and try to be kind.

[Wild one]

All people with the same rules in BC? -----> I have to wear a safety helmet when I ride a bike or motor cycle butt I know a certain race that don't need too in BC
-- Ahhh -- same rules for everyone? ______ your full a sheep shit!
---I bet nun of you woody face this guy face to face and tell him what your saying here Hahahahaha, 3 hour hike into the area? You need to be in some kinda shape!
Give this guy a bit of room to wonder, the future we all must ponder, some think of sheep much fonder, he's in form, above the norm, hacked many a storm
---When you get all people or nun to have to wear safety helmets in BC --when riding bikes on the roads, then we tackle these big issues --

Jelly Van Stood Dah Baker -- On the road riding a bike and I have to wear a helmet or get a $ 1000,00 fine and ICBC cancels my claim to fame!
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Am I missing something about everyone the same? Hahahahaha

Yes there is other stupid racist laws. Most don’t make as big of a deal about the helmet law because it just gives the right for those with religious head gear the right to bounce their head directly off the pavement instead of a helmet. No real benefit other than you don’t have to wear a piece of personal safety equipment. Not much of an impact on the general public really. But guess what there are bikers who have a problem with it too. The reasons you see the issue with FN rights brought up on a hunting forum is it impacts hunters

As for this sheep first off my issue is with the laws that allow him to do this not so much the man. Do I respect this hunt no. If he did it to sell the horns I think that’s pathetic but don’t know this for a fact. Personally seen way worst examples of FN abuse of their rights but this case has the whole SHEEP word involved

As for the 3hr hike you realize that is F all for a mountain hunt right?lol and well there is lots of hunters that can do 3hrs hike in the mountains that are not in the greatest shape.

As for people not willing to tell the guy face to face I know lots that would and think nothing of it.

You seem to try to make excuses and use misdirection any time there is FN issue. Let’s cut the crap and be honest there are good FN that use their hunting rights in a respectful nature and there is scum FN that abuse those rights. Odds are if the ones who abuse their rights were actually held responsible by law or publicly by their own band(I know some offences the band gets involved) opinions may change. At this time those who abuse their rights do so unopposed for the most part

No I am not picking on you either before you claim that. Anyone throwing out comments like you did above would get a response

[ACE]

Jelvis . . . .psuedo 'keeper of the land'
Defending a poacher.
On and on it goes . . .

[Jelvis]

ACE I dig your avatar, it's the coolest on HBC, I hope that's you hunter?

Jello Ban Deeto -- d loosh inn al Poet - My feet are Long fellows they show it -- Hahahaha -- I dig yer avatar -- anyway even if you hate me Hahahaha

[ramcam]

Anyone that hikes 3 hours into the rocky - steep - mountainous terrain and is able to hunt down a ram, and then pack it out for another five hours is a guy I respect, one way or other, this fella ain't going to be bad mouthed by me.

Jelly Thee Pelly Viss -- hold it noo nooo rawwww k nooo dis iz dah rocko and i ain't listenig to ba mouthi my bro in hod it noooo
Gotta go!My God Jelvis, he shot a ram on the winter range in the rut ! No skill involved, if you can make the walk you will kill a book ram. He will be bad mouthed by me.

[Jelvis]

If you people cood get together and hire a lawyer to get this guy in trouble with the law, otherwise just getting all emotional ain't doin nuttin honey
Jel -- Hire a lawyer if you got the bucks -- otherwise this ranting and raving is just jive talkin -- goin nowhere but division and separation with this hissy talk --
------Like a guy in a bar, yankin yer chain and it's time to go outside he changes his mind same thing or If you played hockey and who hasn't?
----------------------------When you drop the gloves you start throwin - same thing -- time to drop the gloves means it's now or never --

[Bugle M In]

Yes there is other stupid racist laws. Most don’t make as big of a deal about the helmet law because it just gives the right for those with religious head gear the right to bounce their head directly off the pavement instead of a helmet. No real benefit other than you don’t have to wear a piece of personal safety equipment. Not much of an impact on the general public really. But guess what there are bikers who have a problem with it too. The reasons you see the issue with FN rights brought up on a hunting forum is it impacts hunters

As for this sheep first off my issue is with the laws that allow him to do this not so much the man. Do I respect this hunt no. If he did it to sell the horns I think that’s pathetic but don’t know this for a fact. Personally seen way worst examples of FN abuse of their rights but this case has the whole SHEEP word involved

As for the 3hr hike you realize that is F all for a mountain hunt right?lol and well there is lots of hunters that can do 3hrs hike in the mountains that are not in the greatest shape.

As for people not willing to tell the guy face to face I know lots that would and think nothing of it.

You seem to try to make excuses and use misdirection any time there is FN issue. Let’s cut the crap and be honest there are good FN that use their hunting rights in a respectful nature and there is scum FN that abuse those rights. Odds are if the ones who abuse their rights were actually held responsible by law or publicly by their own band(I know some offences the band gets involved) opinions may change. At this time those who abuse their rights do so unopposed for the most part

No I am not picking on you either before you claim that. Anyone throwing out comments like you did above would get a response

Yup, a 3hr hike is sweet F'all!!
Fastest way for me was 10hrs, every step straight up (total body/leg burn), and NO TRAIL!
I know other who go harder then that.
3 hrs is dick.
Reason it was 3, probably cause it is "after the season", and sheep are lower down due to mating.
Want my respect, do it "in season".

[dana]

Im pretty sure 100% of the funds collected go back into conservation, and that is something to clap for, with that being said I would rather see it be done by raffle so everyone has a chance.

And that is where you are mistaken. A portion of the proceeds goes to sheep conservation, and then the rest goes to the local first nation. And because a white guy is doing the grip and grin with a cranker, the crowd applauds with a standing ovation.

I don't understand the constant bitching on this site regarding First Nation Hunting Rights. You do realize it has been this way since Confederation? But a bunch of white elites are going to change that by bitching on a hunting internet site? Hahaha!

[Weatherby Fan]

And that is where you are mistaken. A portion of the proceeds goes to sheep conservation, and then the rest goes to the local first nation. And because a white guy is doing the grip and grin with a cranker, the crowd applauds with a standing ovation.

I don't understand the constant bitching on this site regarding First Nation Hunting Rights. You do realize it has been this way since Confederation? But a bunch of white elites are going to change that by bitching on a hunting internet site? Hahaha!

I dont bitch about First Nations Hunting as I’ve thoroughly read about what there rights are so I know it’s wasted energy to bitch about that, and I want you to show me the break down of where the funds go from those tags ?

[dana]

I dont bitch about First Nations Hunting as I’ve thoroughly read about what there rights are so I know it’s wasted energy to bitch about that, and I want you to show me the break down of where the funds go from those tags ?

Weatherby, I wasn't saying you were bitching but rather pointing out the hypocrisy that numerous members of this site are guilty of. The tag I am refering to is Kluane. I also know when KIB had that auction tag in Kamloops, the proceeds went back to the Band. As for a break down, I'm sure a person could find it if you searched on the internet.

I have no idea of the area where the hunter shot the ram of the topic of this thread. But, the rules are if resident hunters have a season, then it is open to the First Nations. Where critters are not open to residents, then they are off limits to First Nations. For example, there are no seasons for Southern Mountain Caribou and therefor southern mountain caribou can not be legally hunted by First Nations. Since sheep are sensitive to harvest, the majority of bands restrict the overall harvest of sheep by their members. Some bands actually hold their own draws within the bands. The NDP just recently gave an exemption to First Nations regarding grizzly. Residents can not hunt grizzlies but First Nations can. The way the NDP and the Federal Liberals are handling First Nation Rights, you can bet that there will be more exemptions in the future. Hunters on this site might remember due to your Resident Rebellion and your hatred to Christy Clark, you had a hand in electing this Unholy Alliance between the NDP and Greens. If you don't like what they are doing, maybe you should look in the mirror as to why they are there in the first place.

[303savage]

If I was hunting a sheep for sustenance, it sure in the hell wouldn't be a big ram,

[dana]

If I was hunting a sheep for sustenance, it sure in the hell wouldn't be a big ram,

But resident hunters do. In fact we are told to harvest old rams because that is better for sheep conservation.

[boxhitch]

And that is where you are mistaken. A portion of the proceeds goes to sheep conservation, and then the rest goes to the local first nation. And because a white guy is doing the grip and grin with a cranker, the crowd applauds with a standing ovation. another Trump-ism. Where do you get this stuff? Care to show us where any band has benefited from the auction ?


HCTF receives 85% of the proceeds from the annual auction for a special permit to hunt a wild sheep in BC. HCTF invests ¾ of this amount into projects focussed on wild sheep conservation, and the remaining ¼ is reserved for projects benefitting other species that use the same habitats as mountain sheep. You can read more about our investment of special permits funds in this report. (https://hctf.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/htcf_special_permits_report.pdf)

[Weatherby Fan]

another Trump-ism. Where do you get this stuff? Care to show us where any band has benefited from the auction ?


Thanks Bill, I just checked and 10% goes to the WSF and 90% goes to projects.

[dana]

Boxhitch,I just gave 2 examples with the Kluane tag and the KIB tag. I am sure there are plenty more if a person were to look. Some Polar Bear Hunts another example. Nice that you say my posts are Trumpisms. I like that. And many of your Libtard posts are Fake News! Typical BCWF strategy. Find a weakness in Resident Hunters and exploit it. Worked well with their hatred to Guides, now lets do the same with First Nations eh? Stir up the pot, get everyone worked up and meanwhile the side deals with Tides and Raincoast go unnoticed.

[Jelvis]

LEH works good for sheep in Kamloops, that is why all of us here in Kammy support LEH sheep tags for this region.
-- We have faith in the Ministry to regulate the LEH Cali Kamloops Sheep Tags

Jelvis -- Down at thee end of Lonely Street at the Heart Break Hotel -- You'll be so lonely baby - you'll be so lonely you could die high ----

[.264winmag]

I remember talking to a reliable source few years back about the KIB auctioning off their BH tag(s). The concern at the time was not so much the couple sheep being sold off, but the flying around in a 500 very close to the sheep trying to get footage and pics of the big Rams in the cliffs. I guess it was spooking the piss out of them and even causing injury and likely death to a few sheep, just to get their advertising for selling off the tags...

[HappyJack]

Weatherby, I wasn't saying you were bitching but rather pointing out the hypocrisy that numerous members of this site are guilty of. The tag I am refering to is Kluane. I also know when KIB had that auction tag in Kamloops, the proceeds went back to the Band. As for a break down, I'm sure a person could find it if you searched on the internet.

I have no idea of the area where the hunter shot the ram of the topic of this thread. But, the rules are if resident hunters have a season, then it is open to the First Nations. Where critters are not open to residents, then they are off limits to First Nations. For example, there are no seasons for Southern Mountain Caribou and therefor southern mountain caribou can not be legally hunted by First Nations. Since sheep are sensitive to harvest, the majority of bands restrict the overall harvest of sheep by their members. Some bands actually hold their own draws within the bands. The NDP just recently gave an exemption to First Nations regarding grizzly. Residents can not hunt grizzlies but First Nations can. The way the NDP and the Federal Liberals are handling First Nation Rights, you can bet that there will be more exemptions in the future. Hunters on this site might remember due to your Resident Rebellion and your hatred to Christy Clark, you had a hand in electing this Unholy Alliance between the NDP and Greens. If you don't like what they are doing, maybe you should look in the mirror as to why they are there in the first place.

Like those crooks being led by a cow were any better? You have to have a nut loose to think they were. Giving away hunting allocations to outfitters isn't the only crap they were pulling on us. ONE thing you can be sure of, if the Lieberals had been re-elected EVERYTHING would be on LEH by now and the outfitters would have an even bigger allocation.

[HappyJack]

FN have the right to hunt the way they want, we cannot really dictate what is right or wrong for them. Is it ok for them to shoot a 5 yr old ram? what about a ewe?

Anyways, the only issue/concern that can be addressed with FN hunting is to ensure the species can handle it. If a species is declining or not healthy enough to support hunting then FN or anyone else does not have the right to hunt them. I would be onboard criticizing a hunt that was threatening a species but I am not going to criticize an FN because he shot a big animal and put in the effort to do it, actually more power to him.

We get mad that FN's drive around in their trucks shooting immature animals and now we are getting mad that they are putting in the effort and hunting hard to take a mature specimen. Seems like a lot of hate no matter what the situation is.

Bang on, hit the nail on the head, plain old jealousy in many cases?

[dana]

Like those crooks being led by a cow were any better? You have to have a nut loose to think they were. Giving away hunting allocations to outfitters isn't the only crap they were pulling on us. ONE thing you can be sure of, if the Lieberals had been re-elected EVERYTHING would be on LEH by now and the outfitters would have an even bigger allocation.

That is the lie that you swallowed so the Fed could get in bed with Weaver, Tides and Raincoast. Yup, we are so much better off now ain't we?

[Ourea]

And that is where you are mistaken. A portion of the proceeds goes to sheep conservation, and then the rest goes to the local first nation. And because a white guy is doing the grip and grin with a cranker, the crowd applauds with a standing ovation.

I don't understand the constant bitching on this site regarding First Nation Hunting Rights. You do realize it has been this way since Confederation? But a bunch of white elites are going to change that by bitching on a hunting internet site? Hahaha!


I reached out to my friends in wildlife and gov on ur above comment that "the rest of the proceeds go directly to First Nations". That is not factual....not even close. Quite frankly it is a personal and fabricated statement on ur behalf. Why would you even say that. Why would you make statements about FN receiving direct compensation and the telling folks to Google it rather than giving evidence and factual data? I am horribly confused.

Those that run the show can not support what you have stated.
So why?

[REMINGTON JIM]

Well Now isn't that a turn of THOUGHT ? Hmm ! RJ

[boxhitch]

That is the lie that you swallowed so the Fed could get in bed with Weaver, Tides and Raincoast. Yup, we are so much better off now ain't we?and it continues

[.264winmag]

http://huntingreport.redpointresolutions.com/kamloops-indians-offer-sleeper-bighorn-sheep-hunt-in-british-columbia/

There's a name mentioned in there that doesn't surprise me...

[dana]

I reached out to my friends in wildlife and gov on ur above comment that "the rest of the proceeds go directly to First Nations". That is not factual....not even close. Quite frankly it is a personal and fabricated statement on ur behalf. Why would you even say that. Why would you make statements about FN receiving direct compensation and the telling folks to Google it rather than giving evidence and factual data? I am horribly confused.

Those that run the show can not support what you have stated.
So why?

And your continued bashing of First Nations on this board is factual data??? I hear your last rant was a doesy. Sooo bad a bunch of people have put uou on the ignore list. So I wouldn't expect you to be any differnt on yet another First Nation Hunting thread.

[dana]

And for the record, I am in no way against these tags. A win win for conservation and for the First Nations. Good projects that help both the wildlife and the people that live off those wildlife. Again my point was to show the glaring hypocrisy that some on this board are living in. It is okay for a rich white guy to hunt in a National Park for a cranker because the end justifies the means but it is not alright for a local First Nation to hunt their traditional territory because it is a National Park? It is alright for a white resident trophy hunter to kill a 190 ram but gawd forbid if a First Nation member shoots anything but a ewe or banana curl, even though a mature ram is the better choice.

[Piperdown]

Talking to yourself again, carry on

[birdee]

Dudes a POACHER.

Period.

One law for all.

there is one law its just that the natives have no law.

why do you think there are a disproportionate natives in the jails
because the are not taught right from wrong.

[Pemby_mess]

there is one law its just that the natives have no law.

why do you think there are a disproportionate natives in the jails
because the are not taught right from wrong.

i would think that someone who presumably does know right from wrong, would refrain from using race and/or cultural background to describe the character of all whom belong to it? Weird.

[Jelvis]

The ratio of whites being charged by cops is seven Indians to one white guy -- 5 Asians for one white guy -- It was on Global TV --- yesterday

Jelly Smelly Belly -- who knows why? -- it's been happening for a 100 years -- 1 to 7 and 1 to 5 --> This was on TV and a young white lawyer told the News!
--------------------------The young white lawyer says, Indians are charged the most compared to any others ---------------------------------------------------------:oops:

[Ourea]

And your continued bashing of First Nations on this board is factual data??? I hear your last rant was a doesy. Sooo bad a bunch of people have put uou on the ignore list. So I wouldn't expect you to be any differnt on yet another First Nation Hunting thread.

I call absolute BS there little fella.
You made up a narrative on this topic and when called on it you spin it into race bashing on my behalf.
Nonsense.

When you don't like the message you spin things, attack and berate the messenger.
That has been demonstrated repeatedly

Continue to manipulate peoples words and talk for them.
You are extremely good at it.

My point was..... you stated money goes directly to FN's on sheep hunts.
That is not the case.
This is according to those in wildlife management and gov that I spoke to.
The only time it does is when FN themselves sell sheep hunts like they do in Kamloops.

Spin that anyway you want Dana.

[guest]

Dina.....
You always return to the fed bashing. You always return to the allocation issue. You always speak so highly of your thoughts of game management by the unregulated hunting.
Ya sure is working well isn't it. Let me ask you this.... Would it be ok for FN to continue to hunt and pound away unregulated on that sheep herd that the OP speaks of? Take out several more for example. Ya that wi work well.
I guess thats OK for you and your opinion though, id expect no different from some one who has supported the harvesting of Nanny Goats...... Hows that working since that good advice....? Bafoonery!

For the sake of all wildlife. Accountability by all parties should be the order of the day. It has nothing to to with FN bashing, and everything to do with sustainability.
If yawant them kids of yours or their kids to be able to hunt.....you best get on with REGULATED hunting by all. Which would of coarse include.....no harvest of Nannys with out consequences. IMO

[Jelvis]

Lil fella and Dina? Not the way to treat a guy who knows a lotta sheet about hunting and forestry in B.C. southern central interior.
-- My bro Rock seen dana in the nor shore a few times when shopping.
Jelly S ? ----> anyways let's not antagonize and get dana cut off HBC - too important a contributor to the hunting spirit and ability to use and share the computer --

[dana]

I call absolute BS there little fella.
You made up a narrative on this topic and when called on it you spin it into race bashing on my behalf.
Nonsense.

When you don't like the message you spin things, attack and berate the messenger.
That has been demonstrated repeatedly

Continue to manipulate peoples words and talk for them.
You are extremely good at it.

My point was..... you stated money goes directly to FN's on sheep hunts.
That is not the case.
This is according to those in wildlife management and gov that I spoke to.
The only time it does is when FN themselves sell sheep hunts like they do in Kamloops.

Spin that anyway you want Dana.

i specifically used Kamloops as an example. You called me a liar and now you tell me I am correct? WTF!!! The other example was Kluane. Kluane is a good deal for both the sheep and the First Nation. Money to WSF and money to the First Nation for their projects. But you call me a liar because you talked to some people eh? Good for you. I doesn't matter anyways because that is not the point. The point is some white guy shooting a sheep in a National Park and he gets praise meanwhile a local First Nation hunts a Park and they get death threats. Did you know the local First Nation up in Kluane also hunt rams in the Park? Did you know there are tons of Canadian National Parks that allow hunting? Heck, I was just in Gros Morne and they have moose hunts available on draws. This is my point. The rules allow First Nations to hunt. Period. Bashing them for exercising their rights is old and tiresome. Time that some get over it. This is the time when all hunters, regardless of what colour they are, need to come together. But that isn't the narritive you want is it Ourea? You are happy to throw the Red Herrings of Race out there every single chance you can get.

[Wild one]

Well all kinds of BS flying around this thread now. Bad blood and propaganda pushed in the past still runs strong I see

Threads like this are examples of why BC hunters have no power or voice. Will still be many years of hunters getting walked on and wildlife going down the crapper in BC unless hunters buck up and wake up in BC

BC a province of great possibilities for hunting, economy, growth, and much more but every aspect of the population is divided So F all gets done or solved because everything is a fight with no results.

Guess it just the nature of those living in BC

[Avalanche123]

Well all kinds of BS flying around this thread now. Bad blood and propaganda pushed in the past still runs strong I see

Threads like this are examples of why BC hunters have no power or voice. Will still be many years of hunters getting walked on and wildlife going down the crapper in BC unless hunters buck up and wake up in BC

BC a province of great possibilities for hunting, economy, growth, and much more but every aspect of the population is divided So F all gets done or solved because everything is a fight with no results.

Guess it just the nature of those living in BC

Yep...that kinda sums it up unfortunately....

[Jelvis]

--> MY buddy, the Rock told me one day, never give up hunters, Life's a bitch - and life will drive you face down into the ground and keep you there if you let it, it's not how many times you hit the ground, it's how many times you get back up and move forward, that's how winning is done!

Jelly Van Dam -- 4 Rocko the Wanna B Jocko --> Get back up and kick some ass ---> Move forward keep kicking and throwing -- Like the Throwin Sah Moh Inn --
----------------------- Do not try to mess with my guy, the rock tho -- in the Nor Shore of Kammy -- in Brock -- he's built, ripped and solid --chicks dig the guy ----------

[LBM]

Some interesting comments on here. Im on the side that this is not a sustenance but more on the lines of poaching.
As said before many have no clue on what goes on out there, and this isnt a isolated incident I give kudos to the OP
for bring this up to thers attention, now people can do what the like and make the call if they disagree with these actions
but I wouldnt just stop with a call to the COs.

[ACE]

CO's won't do anything, RCMP won't do anything, politicians won't do anything, hunters afraid to do anything . . .
Resource takes a sh!t-kicking . . .
No winners anywhere in this debacle.

[Jelvis]

It's like facing Dwayne Johnson -- The Rock -- it's a massive fight -- for a second - then the Rock tosses us over the ropes onto our heads!
Jello Marsh Mello Rocka Fellow -- > The Rock says " Know your role --- and shut zee pie hole "
---------------------------------------------------Clint Eastwood says, " I'm sorry for everything I did in my life " -------------------------------------------------Clint East Woody

[REMINGTON JIM]

CO's won't do anything, RCMP won't do anything, politicians won't do anything, hunters afraid to do anything . . .
Resource takes a sh!t-kicking . . .
No winners anywhere in this debacle.

YUP ! So TRUE ! RJ

[Jelvis]

-- C.O.s or cops should not be blamed for this, they are not the least bit to blame -- politicians are not to blame - these people know the rules and regs and go as far as they can and know the boundaries to face. They are professionals and have been trained by the best in BC.
---- Hunters should not take it upon themselves to get physical or verbally entangled with this explosive subject among some people, even on HBC, has some who like to let emotions over rule and maybe a few ounces of Johnny Walker Hahahahahahahahaha

Jelly Walker -- Tequilla Sunrise -- Bonn Red -- Medium Sah Weeet -----> Went in for one drink and ended up one too many --- ask any ol bar stool --

[LBM]

CO's won't do anything, RCMP won't do anything, politicians won't do anything, hunters afraid to do anything . . .
Resource takes a sh!t-kicking . . .
No winners anywhere in this debacle.


In many maybe even most its not that COs wont do anything its they cant, but some thing was done about the Salmo ram. So here
is your chance make a few calls if you are concerned.
yes the biggest looser in all of this is the wildlife.

[Jelvis]

--> If you have enuff coin, on your own or with others on here who are so concerned and can combine a go fund me type of thing?
-- Can't do go fund me cuz it's for a lawyer -- Hire a good lawyer who tries to help you connect with the Federal gov't and change this for you!
--------------> Butt if you really want to challenge this sustenance thing with this Indian hunter in the Koots courts you will need lots of denaro ---
-- That's thee only way your going to get this off your chests.
Jelly - Don't fear the reaper -- > Remember a person who represents himself as his own lawyer -- Has a fool for a client -->
--------------------------------------- Look up Willy Alphonse Jr. he is one of my Heroes in life -- He's a fighter and stood his ground and won! For more than just himself.
-- Rocky loves Willy and nooo rahhhh noo wai----- gotta go

[browningboy]

The way the wolves are going won’t be much to worry about for either party soon...

[horshur]

Maybe tides will give you the money? They are known for such things, lawsuits that is. But would that be conflict of interest seens as they are also know for gifting first nations?. It is a dilemma.

[puddlejumper]

Wholly Crap! Did everyone stop fighting with each other? That was awesome to watch the berating of each other. Whats that game where you tell a story and pass it on..by the time it gets to the end it is entirely convoluted?

[REMINGTON JIM]

Another TROLL ! MR 4 Posts ! :p RJ

[Weatherby Fan]

Another TROLL ! MR 4 Posts ! :p RJ

Awe Phuck it I’m going hunting at Spences Bridge, I seen a cpl dandy Rams last week......

[willyqbc]

CO's won't do anything, RCMP won't do anything,

Thread after thread the rcmp and co's get bashed for not doing anything.....theres a reason for that.

In most instances, like the shooting of elk on private property thread from a while back....the native tresspassers/poachers stayed on scene waiting for the authorities to arrive. why you may ask? Because they WANT TO BE CHARGED!!!!

Many are purposely flaunting the law and pushing boundaries in an effort to get it before the courts. In the example of trespass hunting...they can lose that one in court 100 times....they only have to win once and its then law and removes the shackles from any who might have been holding back because they just werent sure if they would get in trouble.

How do you think it became legal for the FN to pitlamp? It went to court and they won

The authorities do not charge the FN for infractions, because the lesser of 2 evils is to hope some believe it is wrong and illegal and therefore don't do it, rather than to have it legally sanctioned by the courts and open the floodgates.

The RCMP and CO's are making the less shitty choice in an impossible, no win situation.

Chris

[TexasWalker]

So does anybody have a picture of hunter and ram in question?
Or is this just a steaming pile of bs?

[Weatherby Fan]

Thread after thread the rcmp and co's get bashed for not doing anything.....theres a reason for that.

In most instances, like the shooting of elk on private property thread from a while back....the native tresspassers/poachers stayed on scene waiting for the authorities to arrive. why you may ask? Because they WANT TO BE CHARGED!!!!

Many are purposely flaunting the law and pushing boundaries in an effort to get it before the courts. In the example of trespass hunting...they can lose that one in court 100 times....they only have to win once and its then law and removes the shackles from any who might have been holding back because they just werent sure if they would get in trouble.

How do you think it became legal for the FN to pitlamp? It went to court and they won

The authorities do not charge the FN for infractions, because the lesser of 2 evils is to hope some believe it is wrong and illegal and therefore don't do it, rather than to have it legally sanctioned by the courts and open the floodgates.

The RCMP and CO's are making the less shitty choice in an impossible, no win situation.

Chris

well said Chris, I’ll say it again, the First Nation is a country with in a Country, they can do what they want, make their own laws, abide by the laws they see fit, so they aren’t Canadians they are First Nations

[REMINGTON JIM]

So does anybody have a picture of hunter and ram in question?
Or is this just a steaming pile of bs?

Ha ! LOL Hes Back ! :biggrin: RJ

[j270wsm]

Willyqbc....why was the name of the hunter removed from my original post?? He has not been accused of doing anything illegal!! All I did was post the name of FN who harvested a huge ram under the guise of sustenance. Is it against the law or forum rules to post people's names??

[LBM]

So does anybody have a picture of hunter and ram in question?
Or is this just a steaming pile of bs?

Go to post #12

[willyqbc]

quoting the second post on the thread


well calling someone by name out without any proof other then hearsay on the internet probably wont go over well..

...bout sums it up!

Chris

[TexasWalker]

Go to post #12

And??
Doesn't prove anything.

[LBM]

And??
Doesn't prove anything.
Are you insinuating he is a liar. Maybe ask him if he has a picture.

[f350ps]

It is true.

Ram went 194..
This is for you LBM, who's he?? K

[LBM]

This is for you LBM, who's he?? K

Who is who, the fellow that said its true, dont have a clue.

[j270wsm]

quoting the second post on the thread



...bout sums it up!

Chris

so, if it was originally worded as "congratulations to First Nation Hunter _________on his huge ram " it wouldn't have been an issue?? How many times do people throw around names of poachers like Abe dougan. Those names never seem to be removed.

Again, I never accused him of doing anything illegal so I don't see the reason why his name was removed.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Awe Phuck it I’m going hunting at Spences Bridge, I seen a cpl dandy Rams last week......

Yea I made up a " CARD " ! It says KILL a Ram any Time any where i Want too Because its my Entitlement ! :tongue: RJ

[f350ps]

so, if it was originally worded as "congratulations to First Nation Hunter _________on his huge ram " it wouldn't have been an issue?? How many times do people throw around names of poachers like Abe dougan. Those names never seem to be removed.

Again, I never accused him of doing anything illegal so I don't see the reason why his name was removed.
I totally agree with what you're getting at, I can't figure it out either. I googled his name and he's not to secretive on what he's got going on! K

[f350ps]

Who is who, the fellow that said its true, dont have a clue.
Yep, yer right, you don't! K

[f350ps]

So does anybody have a picture of hunter and ram in question?
Or is this just a steaming pile of bs?
And yer right too! :) K

[willyqbc]

Again, I never accused him of doing anything illegal so I don't see the reason why his name was removed.


This message is for all sheep hunters or hunters in-general. XXXXXXXXXXXX from Cranbrook has killed a big horn in dry creek after the season claiming indian status. The ram is rumoured over 190. This is trophy hunting not sustenance. Here is a number to call to voice your concerns 250-489-8540 leave a message and mention his name and dry creek. With talking to the game wardens this is one of the best ways to voice your concerns. We have to get together and put a stop to this. THIS IS STRAIGHT OUT POACHING PERIOD. Forward this message to every hunter to take action against these poachers and if you are a wildlife club member voice your concerns to you club president. It takes 1 minute make the call.

You put up the name of an individual, accused him of being a poacher, and encouraged others to take action against him.....with absolutely nothing to substantiate the accusation. Had there been something in the public domain naming this person, such as a published news article or official charges laid etc, then no problem with naming names.
I was very close to deleting the thread completely, but felt the "issue" was worthy of discussion so simply removed the name.


How many times do people throw around names of poachers like Abe dougan. Those names never seem to be removed.

Not familiar with Abe Dougan, however if I saw unsubstantiated accusations against him on here, I would have removed that too.

Take care
Chris

[LBM]

Yep, yer right, you don't! K

And your point is.

[skibum]

Does a thread about a FN taking a mulie doe get so much attention?

There is no sheep conservation issue here, it was an old ram. Sheep are stupid animals that die if you look at them the wrong way, why get all worked up about an old ram?

FN complaint effort should go to another issue that may have a lot more conservation impact.

Bashing the CO's for not stopping something that legal and cannot do anything about. WTF?

[puddlejumper]

Every good conversation starts with good listening and I prefer to call it following opposed to trolling!

TBH, I haven't followed a conversation in this forum that is worth getting involved in. That along with the concern that someone is going to point out how many posts are made or when a person joined just keeps me following. I can still enjoy the stories and photos and watch what may have been a legit post become a free for all.

As one other poster captured it earlier to paraphrase. This is why the hunting community doesn't get anywhere, they are too busy arguing with each other and dragging each other through the mud to organize as a successful group with one voice.



Another TROLL ! MR 4 Posts ! :p RJ

[REMINGTON JIM]

puddlejumper for BCWF President He will get ER Done ! :D RJ

[j270wsm]

You put up the name of an individual, accused him of being a poacher, and encouraged others to take action against him.....with absolutely nothing to substantiate the accusation. Had there been something in the public domain naming this person, such as a published news article or official charges laid etc, then no problem with naming names.
I was very close to deleting the thread completely, but felt the "issue" was worthy of discussion so simply removed the name.



Not familiar with Abe Dougan, however if I saw unsubstantiated accusations against him on here, I would have removed that too.

Take care
Chris


I never wrote the original write up, It was sent to me and after making a few inquiries about the legitimacy, I felt the need to share it. I forgot that it had comments about poaching so I understand why you the name was removed

[eastkoot]

An email posted by Sparwood F&G Association posted yesterday
I'm sure most have heard of the sheep recently killed out of season. Below is the statement from our local F&W branch.


From FLNROD:
"Dear Hunting and Wildlife Community,

There has been some rumours about a Bighorn sheep ram being recently harvested in the Elk valley. We would like to provide a short update on FLNRORD’s involvement, and what we know about this issue. Please feel free to share this email with others. We are aware that there is considerable social media communication occurring in forums and on Facebook.

In October, FLNRORD was contacted with a rumour that a permit was issued to authorize a harvest of a Bighorn ram in the Elk Valley, outside the legal hunting season. We confirmed at that time that no such permit was issued by FLNRORD.
Based on the recent events it appears that a “permit” letter was drafted by a First Nations band, and issued to a local First Nations hunter.
Neither FLNRORD nor COS have seen this letter.
A Bighorn ram was harvested by a FN hunter on or around November 5 in the Elk Valley in Management Unit 4-23. The FN hunter claims that the harvest was a sustenance hunt and did recover the edible parts.
Given that there was no permit given from FLNRORD side, the harvest is out of season and the FN Hunter involved claim a sustenance hunt, the Conservation Officer Service is investigating and will update us on their findings. It is important to realize that the Canadian constitution and numerous case law decisions have established and upheld the aboriginal right to hunt, fish, trap for food, ceremonial, or cultural purposes. While there are strong opinions about this situation, It is not clear how this circumstance will be interpreted with respect to aboriginal rights.

We will be relaying the COS findings to you as we receive them. "


Anyone with information/comments is asked to call the RAPP line.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Only 1 steaming pile of BS here RJ

[NMO]

Like those crooks being led by a cow were any better? You have to have a nut loose to think they were. Giving away hunting allocations to outfitters isn't the only crap they were pulling on us. ONE thing you can be sure of, if the Lieberals had been re-elected EVERYTHING would be on LEH by now and the outfitters would have an even bigger allocation.

You know that's really not how it works, right?

[walks with deer]

rj bring your letter to the boat launch ssturday...will take my boat and shoot your ram can you bring me one two?

[REMINGTON JIM]

rj bring your letter to the boat launch ssturday...will take my boat and shoot your ram can you bring me one two?

This one Buddy ! KILL a Ram any Time any where i Want too Because its my Entitlement ! :lol: lol RJ

[Jelvis]

Notice how politics is getting involved now in the discussions here?

Polly Ticks

Jelly -- worse than deer ticks -- all mouth - If tick is embedded into your skin do not use tweezer to pull thee body out --> bad move - head stays under skin ->
Travels to your brain in the blood system ----> Stroke

[HappyJack]

You know that's really not how it works, right?

Absolutely, how else do the outfitters get such a large allocation? It's obviously a political payoff. There should be ZERO outfitter allocation in any area that resident hunters have to apply for LEH draws.

[Jelvis]

Resident hunters should be favored for their commitment and dollars they spend to play the game of LEH and the GOS over the Pro Guides --
-- Resident hunters rule, let's hear it -- say it out loud " Resident hunters rule --- again -- resident hunters rule -- gooood well done!

Jello -- Resident hunters over the Pro Guides for LEH draws on a personal basis -- Ever heard Oasis? --> One more -- Resident hunters rule ---> all rah hight

[Wild one]

Absolutely, how else do the outfitters get such a large allocation? It's obviously a political payoff. There should be ZERO outfitter allocation in any area that resident hunters have to apply for LEH draws.

Poor representation of RH played a huge roll betting way more than most think. A lot of BS and exaggerations were thrown around during that time by both sides. That argument was an embarrassment to both RH and GOs a like full of lies smear campaigns and threats

You sure ate up the propaganda. Reality of it is RH we’re not running as saints either. Keep dwelling on it that will cause you to have F all for hunting in BCs future

Make sure RH have better representation in the future is the smart way to learn from that past gong show

[Bugle M In]

Poor representation of RH played a huge roll betting way more than most think. A lot of BS and exaggerations were thrown around during that time by both sides. That argument was an embarrassment to both RH and GOs a like full of lies smear campaigns and threats

You sure ate up the propaganda. Reality of it is RH we’re not running as saints either. Keep dwelling on it that will cause you to have F all for hunting in BCs future

Make sure RH have better representation in the future is the smart way to learn from that past gong show

^^^^Better Representation for RH at the table!!!
That "IS" the biggest problem here in BC.
Like Wild One states, no use going backwards, just learn from the mistakes and move forward!
At this point, I am not blaming the BCWF or the GOABC any longer.
GOABC is taking care of their members, that's understandable.
BCWF is a group of hunters, but they are organized to help wildlife.
WSS is trying to help "right now"!! although they are there for sheep, but they are trying to "reach out" for us right now.

In the end, RH will need an Association themselves. (IMO)

[NMO]

Absolutely, how else do the outfitters get such a large allocation? It's obviously a political payoff. There should be ZERO outfitter allocation in any area that resident hunters have to apply for LEH draws.

How do you figure? In areas that are on LEH, Outfitters have a reduced allocation that is proportionate to the number of tags given to residents. The GOABC are organized, and actually fight for their members. As WildOne pointed out, the same can't be said for Resident Hunters.

What about sheep allocation? Every Sheep outfitter in the province is on a fairly conservative allocation, even though residents aren't. I'm not suggesting they change that, just pointing out that its not the one-sided political conspiracy that you are alluding to. What do you consider a large allocation? The outfit I guide for is on 10 rams/yr for 5'600 square kilometres, and its open to residents... spread the harvest through the area, target older age class rams. Sounds like maybe the GOABC needs to work better on the "Political Payoff".

[LBM]

An email posted by Sparwood F&G Association posted yesterday
I'm sure most have heard of the sheep recently killed out of season. Below is the statement from our local F&W branch.


From FLNROD:
"Dear Hunting and Wildlife Community,

There has been some rumours about a Bighorn sheep ram being recently harvested in the Elk valley. We would like to provide a short update on FLNRORD’s involvement, and what we know about this issue. Please feel free to share this email with others. We are aware that there is considerable social media communication occurring in forums and on Facebook.

In October, FLNRORD was contacted with a rumour that a permit was issued to authorize a harvest of a Bighorn ram in the Elk Valley, outside the legal hunting season. We confirmed at that time that no such permit was issued by FLNRORD.
Based on the recent events it appears that a “permit” letter was drafted by a First Nations band, and issued to a local First Nations hunter.
Neither FLNRORD nor COS have seen this letter.
A Bighorn ram was harvested by a FN hunter on or around November 5 in the Elk Valley in Management Unit 4-23. The FN hunter claims that the harvest was a sustenance hunt and did recover the edible parts.
Given that there was no permit given from FLNRORD side, the harvest is out of season and the FN Hunter involved claim a sustenance hunt, the Conservation Officer Service is investigating and will update us on their findings. It is important to realize that the Canadian constitution and numerous case law decisions have established and upheld the aboriginal right to hunt, fish, trap for food, ceremonial, or cultural purposes. While there are strong opinions about this situation, It is not clear how this circumstance will be interpreted with respect to aboriginal rights.

We will be relaying the COS findings to you as we receive them. "


Anyone with information/comments is asked to call the RAPP line.

Any more updates on this .

[Piperdown]

The nanny killer has gone silent on this thread......