Doe season do you agree with it??

[jac]

Hey all

This has likely been talked about a lot but I’m wonder what people think about the open season for WT doe. I live and hunt in region 8 and I personally don’t agree and wouldn’t take a doe, you need females to make babies so we can have more bucks. That’s just my personal not scientific opinion! What’s do you guys think?

[Wild one]

All depends on the population of WT and in a strong WT population it’s actually good to have a doe season. Good healthy buck vs doe ratio is a good thing for the population and actually can create better hunting conditions as well

All the best WT hunting destinations in Northern America have a doe season for a reason

But the issue I find in BC is they are applying this style of management on WT that are either low density or low population overall. Part of BC it’s a good thing to have a doe season

Most BC hunters underestimate how adaptable WT are to pressure and how much they change their habits as well

So I am both for and against the WT doe season it comes down to the MU

[Big Lew]

In BC, Management uses WT doe season as a tool to slow down WT expansion into troubled
MD traditional areas.

[Wild one]

In BC, Management uses WT doe season as a tool to slow down WT expansion into troubled
MD traditional areas.

Correct and in my opinion this is a waste of a resource but some have other opinions

[wideopenthrottle]

all very fluid...carrying capacity...winter severity....if x is the max number of deer an area can hold for the winter, this will more likely result in competition for winter food so maybe you get 50% of deer (does) having one fawn each....if the number of deer (does) is much less than capacity and food is not restricted, the does may have up to 3 fawns..... x number of does at 1 fawn each would yield less fawns than 1/2 x does with 3 fawns each.....Wildlife pops are severely affected by winter/winter food availability (sometimes in ways that will even affect the next generation of deer)....

more does can be worse than less in this scenario..

i saw it stated once as "you can't stockpile wildlife".....

remember! winter is the big reset button on wildlife every year

[okas]

close to town as weeding them out and are great eating

[Bustercluck]

I'm not into shooting does, but it doesn't bother me that other people do. I don't think we should be shooting does that have offspring with them.

The only thin that bothers me is seeing people post pics of the little fawns they shoot. Probably the worst thing a hunter can do on social media

[Wild one]

all very fluid...carrying capacity...winter severity....if x is the max number of deer an area can hold for the winter, this will more likely result in competition for winter food so maybe you get 50% of deer (does) having one fawn each....if the number of deer (does) is much less than capacity and food is not restricted, the does may have up to 3 fawns..... x number of does at 1 fawn each would yield less fawns than 1/2 x does with 3 fawns each.....Wildlife pops are severely affected by winter/winter food availability (sometimes in ways that will even affect the next generation of deer)....

more does can be worse than less in this scenario..

i saw it stated once as "you can't stockpile wildlife".....

remember! winter is the big reset button on wildlife every year

With reports of most ungulate species declining in many MU’s in BC are we at carrying capacity?

If you research on winter kill there has not been any proven effective methods to limit the impact only theory

The actual theory to BCs WT management is they provide too much meat on the table increasing predation from cougars on MD( cougars main prey). Again an unproven theory abandoned after not achieving results in Alberta and some states

Just like the scorched earth theory that again has not proven to have results in solving predator populations

Lots of issues here in BC how we manage them compared to other areas is our biggest flaw

This is part of the reasons why BCs ungulate hunting forecast compared to the rest of Canada is dismal

[Wentrot]

Yup, if the population is strong enough meat is meat.

[RyoTHC]

One of the areas I hunt, I've ran into 2 dozen + does (not counting their offspring) in the last few weeks and have seen TWO bucks... In this area I wouldn't hesitate to take a doe.. but I'm hoping that the does lure the big ol bucks in Soon..

[rocksteady]

I am willing to take a wt doe vs a muley buck in my area. Most does have twins this year, i hold out to find obe without fawns but rather take one of them vs a muley buck as muley pops are way down. Wt does are less meat but better tasting.

[todbartell]

I think the antlerless season is great. Keeps WTD populations where they need to be, great opportunity for hunters to fill the freezer with some good meat.

[lovemywinchester]

Hey all

This has likely been talked about a lot but I’m wonder what people think about the open season for WT doe. I live and hunt in region 8 and I personally don’t agree and wouldn’t take a doe, you need females to make babies so we can have more bucks. That’s just my personal not scientific opinion! What’s do you guys think?

I love wt does. Very tasty and easy to transport. Not sure if a three week period once a year qualifies as OPEN SEASON.
https://i.imgur.com/mLz50gSl.jpg

I

[Salty]

yes .

[.300WSMImpact!]

numbers are too low for it in most areas, plus the amount of mule deer does I find people leave in the bush is sad mistaking them for whitetail, when numbers are good its all good, right now seasons need to be removes or shortened until some kind of recovery is seen

[canucks6]

I used to be totally against this opening, but have recently become all for it. With the predator numbers being so high then LETS harvest everything we can before they do. Bring numbers down on everything so the cats and dogs move along or starve.
Also as an avid whitetail hunter I still see a decent number of deer. Just don't see them driving into or out of my spots.

[lovemywinchester]

So some HBC people in Region 8 want to stop the youth hunt and now the WT doe hunt. I just spent a day and a half in Reg 8 and saw LOTS of WT does. Most on farm land but we busted them up high as well. Keep it up and all hunting will be banned.

[RyoTHC]

Edit.

Forget it , posting pictures on this site is needlessly painful.

[quadrakid]

Great. Another post questioning how we feel about a legal hunt. Maybe we can get 21 pages out of this one.Too many people looking for excuses as to why they can,t get an animal. I would rather see some posts of whitetail does dead than a post where the OP would like to see more limited hunting opportunities.

[HarryToolips]

^^^^^i agree, I think people truly underestimate the whitetail deer....they are an incredible, thriving, adaptable species...most of region 8 especially has good WT numbers, the WT adapt when the majority of hunters don't, then they think there's no WT..as others have said, winter is the bottleneck for survival, not hunting...a good book that I suggest people on here read is called Whitetail Advantage..

[twoSevenO]

Personally I am against doe, cow and calf seasons.
Not sure why doe LEH is even a thing ... seems dumb to me. Not like we are infested with deer up here like in the states.

But I also admit I'm not as well educated on wildlife management like some folks on here sooooo .....

[jac]

If you have a season that is open to anyone with a tag that wants a WT doe what else would you call it but a open season??


Interesting I thought more people would be against the season but I clearly can see that most people like it. After reading the replies there are some valid reasons for the season and hopefully the population becomes stronger from it. One thing i always thought If they want a season like this why not LEH with good odds and use the money from LEH sales for improving bc wildlife. I would glady pay a little more to hunt if i knew the money was being spent to help bc hunting.

[quadrakid]

More LEH is never a good thing.

[HighCountryBC]

Personally I am against doe, cow and calf seasons.
Not sure why doe LEH is even a thing ... seems dumb to me. Not like we are infested with deer up here like in the states.

But I also admit I'm not as well educated on wildlife management like some folks on here sooooo .....

Those seasons have their place.

Quadrakid nailed it..

[kootenaihunter]

WT are expanding their range in BC, moving into BT/MD territory. WT are more adaptable, while MD are specialists. WT will eat the MD's dinner and then move on to other stuff. As they move into new territory, they draw in more predators. This has been mentioned above. WT reproduce much more rapidly with propensity to produce twins. If you want MD to survive, you must manage WTs.

Not all populations can be managed by just shooting bucks. As a meat hunter, I'd rather harvest a big fat doe than a little skinny spiker. But if you don't want does harvested, then don't shoot one, simple.

[ratherbefishin]

Studies show hunting accounts for only about 15% mortality ,so whether or not there is a doe season is pretty much irrelevant.preditors,roads,railways , starvation, disease,old age is ‘open season’NBL ‘365 days a year.All you have to do is look at some of the gulf islands where hunting is not allowed,no preditors and you can see what happens when deer numbers exceed the carrying capacity..inbreeding,diseasr and starvation are the inevitable results

[Wild one]

We really have 3 regions in BC with strong WT numbers 4,7b, and 8. These regions no doubt have MU’s that a WT doe season is good and even some MU’s in 3. Now populations like 7a with estimated population of less then 3000 and MUs with little to no WT in 3 a doe season is a waste

In reality though our WT densities in BC don’t compare to most provs in Canada. You will see different management of them as well from liberal to highly restricted within the same provs

Our MD issues in BC are largely habitat related and then add in many years of liberal seasons beyond majority of North America and hunters wonder why they are declining. These are only 2 issues MD face in BC

Why are MD on a big decline in areas with little to no WT? Could it be WT are not the factor some claim

BC needs to understand that BC is very diverse population/habitat wise even within its regions making blanket management ineffective. Often the issues are also very different so one theory often does not apply to the whole prov.

[lovemywinchester]

Reg 3 Coyotes...Sept 1 - June 30, No Bag limit. 10 months long unlimited kill. Now that's open season

Reg 8 WT Doe...Oct 10-31, Three weeks, one doe limit. Just a short opener. I guess it depends on if you are pro or con for the season. Too short for some, way too long for others.

[guest]

Sittin in a blind in reg 8 right now.
W T doe season..... Great management tool. Almost every doe ya see has fawn or two. Over taking MDeer..... Pushing them out.
Yes im in favour of the season where useful. Best eating of all deer. But be selective. Lone does best.

[boxhitch]

..........MUs with little to no WT in 3 a doe season is a waste .......waste of what ?


Our MD issues in BC are largely habitat related and then add in many years of liberal seasons beyond majority of North America and hunters wonder why they are declining.
Again............?

[Wild one]

Reg 3 Coyotes...Sept 1 - June 30, No Bag limit. 10 months long unlimited kill. Now that's open season

Reg 8 WT Doe...Oct 10-31, Three weeks, one doe limit. Just a short opener. I guess it depends on if you are pro or con for the season. Too short for some, way too long for others.

The healthy WT populations in region 8 I see it as a positive to the WT population and good management

It does create smart WT that are more nocturnal when it comes to traveling in the open compared to what BC had in the past.

[Wild one]

waste of what ? Att

Again............?

Selective quotes missing portions of what I typed but OK

1)simple terms in small WT populations doe harvest is a waste in comparison to proper management which could create better opportunities for WT long term.

2) Mule deer face many factors causing decline and basically WT are being used as a piss poor excuse for their decline. Ever wonder why there is less MD harvest opportunities out side of BC. Could it be their populations are more fragile then WT and can be impacted easily in comparison

MD are more fragile to all factors that impact their populations


BC is behind compared to most North American deer management

[BCHunterFSJ]

So I am both for and against the WT doe season it comes down to the MU

I agree with Wild one. From this thread it looks like it's a good thing in Region 8.
But I live in Region 7b and am definitely against it. The whitetail numbers here just do not warrant the shooting of does.
At least not in the Fort St. John and North areas...

[HarryToolips]

Selective quotes missing portions of what I typed but OK

1)simple terms in small WT populations doe harvest is a waste in comparison to proper management which could create better opportunities for WT long term.

2) Mule deer face many factors causing decline and basically WT are being used as a piss poor excuse for their decline. Ever wonder why there is less MD harvest opportunities out side of BC. Could it be their populations are more fragile then WT and can be impacted easily in comparison

MD are more fragile to all factors that impact their populations


BC is behind compared to most North American deer management
Whitetails would be the last animal I'd be concerned about with regards to a 3 week doe season.... don't forget, this regulation cycle they just implemented the 1 MD prov. bag limit, which is a good thing...MD in BC with a little pred management, and given the fires we've had in recent years, could make a very good rebound...though I ain't hold my breath for pred management with the NDGreenies in charge...cheers..

[bigneily]

Doe season , sure in areas that can sustain it . I know here in region 4 that time has come and gone , the whities are here don't get me wrong but not in the numbers they used to be . Just like the elk numbers now mismanagement is gonna take a toll . Just my 2 cents

[Wild one]

Whitetails would be the last animal I'd be concerned about with regards to a 3 week doe season.... don't forget, this regulation cycle they just implemented the 1 MD prov. bag limit, which is a good thing...MD in BC with a little pred management, and given the fires we've had in recent years, could make a very good rebound...though I ain't hold my breath for pred management with the NDGreenies in charge...cheers..

I support the doe season in your area and other healthy WT populations and see it as good for WT under these conditions. In 7a for example were the population is less then 3000 for the whole region I don’t

1 MD bag limit was the first smart thing done for BCs MD in along time. Is it enough for BCs MD population time will tell. In some populations in my opinion I would say it is probably all that is needed.

Fire is good and bad yes in some areas deer will benefit nutrition wise but others lost winter range. No doubt some areas will benefit

I could see some areas improving in the future well others continue to decline

[kootenaihunter]

FYI, WT deer are not native throughout BC, and are expanding their range. Some regs might be in place to stop expansion and prevent encroachment on MD/BT territory, perhaps even to the point that they remain rare in those non-native areas. They are perhaps the most adaptable and prolific ungulate in NA, I wouldn't be too concerned with any populations being 'decimated' as some folks put it.

2) What is the current distribution of white-tailed deer in BC and how have their numbers changed?

White-tailed deer have expanded their distribution in recent decades (Aldous 2013, Shackleton 2013) and now occurthroughout much of the province. Estimated abundance of white-tailed deer in British Columbia increased from about40,000 in 1987 to over 113,000 in 2011 (Figure 1). Populations declined following the severe winter of 1996/97 butincreased in size and distribution since then (Mowat and Kuzyk 2009, Kuzyk et al. 2013). The southeast and northeastparts of the province traditionally had the highest abundance of white-tailed deer, although in the late 2000s whitetaileddeer abundance increased throughout the south-central interior of the province and has continued to expand tonew areas (Figure 2). The increased abundance and distribution of white-tailed deer have been associated with theirability to co-exist with human development and use landscapes altered by agriculture, forestry and forest fires.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/white_tailed_deer_prov_review.pdf

[Redthies]

I was just on a turkey hunt in the SW Kootenays, and had two wt does come running downhill and stop 20 yards from me. If I’d had more than #4 shot in my Mossberg, I’d have one in the freezer right now. In a time where hunts are being so limited, if the guvmint (in all their supposed wisdom) says I can have one, I’ll take one. Unless of course they’re obviously wrong about the population numbers. But we all know the gov’t is NEVER wrong, right?

[Wild one]

FYI, WT deer are not native throughout BC, and are expanding their range. Some regs might be in place to stop expansion and prevent encroachment on MD/BT territory, perhaps even to the point that they remain rare in those non-native areas. They are perhaps the most adaptable and prolific ungulate in NA, I wouldn't be too concerned with any populations being 'decimated' as some folks put it.

2) What is the current distribution of white-tailed deer in BC and how have their numbers changed?

White-tailed deer have expanded their distribution in recent decades (Aldous 2013, Shackleton 2013) and now occurthroughout much of the province. Estimated abundance of white-tailed deer in British Columbia increased from about40,000 in 1987 to over 113,000 in 2011 (Figure 1). Populations declined following the severe winter of 1996/97 butincreased in size and distribution since then (Mowat and Kuzyk 2009, Kuzyk et al. 2013). The southeast and northeastparts of the province traditionally had the highest abundance of white-tailed deer, although in the late 2000s whitetaileddeer abundance increased throughout the south-central interior of the province and has continued to expand tonew areas (Figure 2). The increased abundance and distribution of white-tailed deer have been associated with theirability to co-exist with human development and use landscapes altered by agriculture, forestry and forest fires.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/white_tailed_deer_prov_review.pdf

It should not be a surprise WT expanded their range changes to B.C.s habitat benefiting the species and ungulate species like MD declining over the years created an opening and conditions that was needed. They did just as other ungulate species have done through history under these conditions

So under this train of thought we should have liberal seasons for moose as well because they fall under the same category expanding well beyond their historical range?

We could add many elk populations to this as well right?

Thete are MD populations that have bred out BT over the years as well should we have liberal harvest of MD at the edge of BT ranges as well?

Yes WT are adaptable but they are not untouchable and this is why the management of the species varies throughout Canada.

Fact of the matter is the habitat is what will dictate where WT take hold in BC more then anything and there are many parts of B.C. that the habitat is not well suited for WT vs MD or other species for that matter. There will always be habitat that one species thrives beyond others this is how evaluation created them. WT are not a super species that will push out all others

Odd how some of the best MD hunting destinations in the west are also great WT destinations. Could it be they coexist because they thrive in slightly different habitat?

Doe seasons in the used correctly are good WT management but some here in BC are BS at best

[Wild one]

Really this subject is beat to death and fact of the matter is history will repeat it self. The population where the season is sustainable WT populations will be fine. Some populations will decline and some are already

If a conservation concern arises in any area it will not be addressed for many years past when it should have. We all heard how MD and moose were doing just fine in the past well some were seeing issues early on. Now both these species are a concern in many parts of B.C.

Conservative approach has never been BCs way instead it’s take what we can till oh crap we have a problem lol

[boxhitch]

You keep making bold statements that the BC Gov is some how not meeting your expectations for wildlife management. Thats too bad
But don't assume they don't have a plan or that there has not been collaboration with hunters nd citizens on how to best manage for all users
documents are easy to find shwoing where Gov has reached out and listened to those at the table

In the past you have also compared the BC mangement to other jurisdictions in NA and make the statement that somehow BC is out to lunch on decisions pertaining to wildlife
Yet you never have come up with examples of any plan from anywhere that would be better for BC . BC can't be compared to any province east of us
nor can it be compared to States south of us because of the unique combination of factors we have here that are not mirrored anywhere else

No , BC does not have a plan to maximize deer populations or any other species. BC manages for hunter opportunity where possible and where pops will sustain it
There is a purpose to what they do, and other hunters agree with it.

[Wild one]

Many examples have been given over time and have even recommended studies from other areas. Have even shown the rest of the management plan numbers and how there was mixed management in the examples being used

Have I posted links no but yes I have posted where info can be found, and examples in past threads

Like you stated BC has there management plans and yes some hunters agree with them but with how often many debates come up far from all agree with how wildlife is managed in BC

No lack of issues in BC past and present because of this no doubt there is reason to question things

We are both entitled to our opinions and what we would like to see as is everyone else

[snipersights]

The way I see it for every buck I come across I see at least ten does we need bucks to make babies too so why not take out a few does?

[wideopenthrottle]

an important point on this matter is. IIRC, there are more eco-types (not hippies but types of ecosystems that support different habitats and species) in BC than in all of the rest of Canada combined...we have the most complex wildlife interactions... unlike mountain states to the south, we have full on severe winters that can and do devastate various species of wildlife at various times...not making excuses for past mismanagement, just pointing out the realities of BC wildlife management

[rocksteady]

The way I see it for every buck I come across I see at least ten does we need bucks to make babies too so why not take out a few does?

You need does to make babies...too

[finngun]

LOTS OF does around tunqkwa ,,very few bucks......and even 2 bucks less now..;)..cheers f..G

[Wild one]

The way I see it for every buck I come across I see at least ten does we need bucks to make babies too so why not take out a few does?

With WT even running trail cams a lot of bucks stay hidden till Nov. This is not just a BC thing as I have seen the same trend in Alberta and friends/family in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Ontario have found the same. This can be a dramatic increase in buck numbers

They know how to hide lol

[skibum]

Hey all

This has likely been talked about a lot but I’m wonder what people think about the open season for WT doe. I live and hunt in region 8 and I personally don’t agree and wouldn’t take a doe, you need females to make babies so we can have more bucks. That’s just my personal not scientific opinion! What’s do you guys think?

Game management should all be done on personal opinions not scientific principles - But the order should be 1) wolves 2) spring B-Bear; 3) cougar/lynx; 4) B-Bear; then 5) doe season and finally 6) trophy bucks/sheep/goats

[HighCountryBC]

You need does to make babies...too

And harvest spread across all age classes and both sexes is healthiest for any population.