deer density in BC

[twoSevenO]

Do we have a study on this or any published numbers?

Was just watching an episode of Meat Eater on Netflix and he had 2 hunters from the midwest with him on a Caribou hunt. One of them mentioned the density of deer in their state was 70 per square mile. That seems ridiculously high

[RyoTHC]

Do we have a study on this or any published numbers?

Was just watching an episode of Meat Eater on Netflix and he had 2 hunters from the midwest with him on a Caribou hunt. One of them mentioned the density of deer in their state was 70 per square mile. That seems ridiculously high

There are more white tail in the USA than all ungulates in Canada I'd bet haha they are like rats down there !


Sorry I offer no help study wise.

[wideopenthrottle]

harsh winters kill a lot of animals

[bighornbob]

Do we have a study on this or any published numbers?

Was just watching an episode of Meat Eater on Netflix and he had 2 hunters from the midwest with him on a Caribou hunt. One of them mentioned the density of deer in their state was 70 per square mile. That seems ridiculously high


yes some states are polluted with whitetails. I cant remember which state, but the bag limit is one deer per day and I think they have like a 30 day season. So in theory you could shoot 30 deer a year or something crazy like that. I also believe that in some states, you have to harvest two does before you are allowed a buck tag.

Crazy numbers down there.

[tomcat]

We also have much higher numbers of deer killing predators here.

[Wild one]

BC for the most part is low density when it comes to deer. BC will never be a sought after deer hunting destination either

Lots of factors to this and reasons vary throughout BC. BC has areas with great weather/habitat for deer well other areas there is poor habitat and too much snow. Predation and poor management are other factors

Parts of B.C. the habitat and wildlife have basically been raped.

[twoSevenO]

yes yes, predators ... but do we know what the numbers are? for comparison sakes?

[Wild one]

I have not seen a figure for overall BC and do a lack of counts in many MUs I don’t think there is an accurate number for overall BC

I think you’re best you will get is data on select areas where a count has taken place.

Do to poor funding accurate data on species that are not under a big conservation concern are limited

[Jimbob]

Some states have 100% of their land as suitable deer habitat. Couple that with all the farming and boom you have an explosion of deer. Where I went to university in Southern Ontario you could shoot one buck and 6 does a year. Lots of farms there and no crown land.

BC is huge with so much habitat not suitable for deer it makes the idea of measuring deer density for the whole province kinda pointless. Here are some numbers

WT - 65,000
Mule - 190,000
Black-tail - 150 000 - 250 000

Total area of BC = 925,000 sq km

(high estimate) deer density equals 505,000 deer / 925, 000 sq km =

0.55 deer / sq km

Just some rough estimate of deer numbers found online

[KevB]

Do we have a study on this or any published numbers?

Was just watching an episode of Meat Eater on Netflix and he had 2 hunters from the midwest with him on a Caribou hunt. One of them mentioned the density of deer in their state was 70 per square mile. That seems ridiculously high

He is talking about deer #'s on his property not the state. He has been on the meat eater podcast several times talking about the extensive land and deer management he does on a large chunk of property that has been in his family for generations. So that number may very well be significantly higher than the average in his state

[Tim Tam Slam]

Ahh yes good old Doug Duren^

i like that guy

[rocksteady]

We also have much higher numbers of deer killing predators here.

Down in some of the Souther States they like to eat their predators... and almost anything else... possum, racoon, swuirrel...

[twoSevenO]

He is talking about deer #'s on his property not the state. He has been on the meat eater podcast several times talking about the extensive land and deer management he does on a large chunk of property that has been in his family for generations. So that number may very well be significantly higher than the average in his state

Good point. I might have misunderstood then. Could've bet he said it was for his home state

.... which seemed ridiculously high.

[quadrakid]

As an example. Pennsylvania,not a big state has a whitetail population of 1.5 million. 30 per square mile.

[quadrakid]

Texas, more than 4 million whitetails.

[HarryToolips]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/2017_Provincial_Ungulate_Numbers_Sept_18_Final.pdf

heres the latest estimate for deer numbers in BC...

I agree with the lack of suitable habitat, as a lot of BC is very rugged, steep terrain, also with the harsher winters, and a general lack of pred management..

[twoSevenO]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/2017_Provincial_Ungulate_Numbers_Sept_18_Final.pdf

heres the latest estimate for deer numbers in BC...

I agree with the lack of suitable habitat, as a lot of BC is very rugged, steep terrain, also with the harsher winters, and a general lack of pred management..

Cool find. I enjoyed looking st the numbers here. Thanks for sharing this!!!

[HarryToolips]

^^^you bet bud....

[cptnoblivious]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/2017_Provincial_Ungulate_Numbers_Sept_18_Final.pdf

heres the latest estimate for deer numbers in BC...

I agree with the lack of suitable habitat, as a lot of BC is very rugged, steep terrain, also with the harsher winters, and a general lack of pred management..

Thank you, great to see some data!

[TCMX]

I know they are doing some tracking in the "elephant hill" area with collars too try and get some info the deer numbers in that area.

but i would have too say predators, poor management system, fires, winter kill.

[tinhorse]

From that data they are estimating 10-20 moose on Vancouver Island? Hmmm???

[Wild one]

From that data they are estimating 10-20 moose on Vancouver Island? Hmmm???

Region 1 also includes part of the mainland

[twoSevenO]

Interesting that there are blacktails spilling into region 3 but none into region 8.

I would have expected them to mix in 2-17 / 8-5 and areas like that ... and I'm sure they do to some extent.

[Wild one]

Interesting that there are blacktails spilling into region 3 but none into region 8.

I would have expected them to mix in 2-17 / 8-5 and areas like that ... and I'm sure they do to some extent.

As a kid a few MUs I started hunting were dominated by blacktail but are now a combo of MD and hybrids. MD have expanded into areas over the years and blacktail get bred out

I did not hunt 8 till I got older and don’t remember hearing of any blacktail or hybrids past hope slide but I would think it would be possible

[Stillhunting]

Lots of black-tails in the Nahatlatch watershed on the west side of the Fraser in Region 3.

[guest]

Over many years of hunting Harrison and Boston Bar areas, Yes the Mulies do cross with the BTs.
just like the Pemberton and Mt. Currie area, you can get smaller compact knarly racks, large bodied deer with dark brown to black outer tails.

[Bugle M In]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/2017_Provincial_Ungulate_Numbers_Sept_18_Final.pdf

heres the latest estimate for deer numbers in BC...

I agree with the lack of suitable habitat, as a lot of BC is very rugged, steep terrain, also with the harsher winters, and a general lack of pred management..

I am having my doubts about this survey.
Just looking at the elk in R4, they say 15,000 + , but its my understanding they thing it is less then 6500 now?
Makes me wonder about the accuracy of any of it.?
Don't mean to be so cynical, but as of late, I have my suspicions on a lot of things not being what they say they are.

[Wild one]

I am having my doubts about this survey.
Just looking at the elk in R4, they say 15,000 + , but its my understanding they thing it is less then 6500 now?
Makes me wonder about the accuracy of any of it.?
Don't mean to be so cynical, but as of late, I have my suspicions on a lot of things not being what they say they are.

Lack of funding with many areas going years between counts I too ? The accuracy

Sad to say but a lot of BCs wildlife numbers are educated guess with many species

[Bugle M In]

Lack of funding with many areas going years between counts I too ? The accuracy

Sad to say but a lot of BCs wildlife numbers are educated guess with many species

Honestly. I am just getting "disgusted" with this whole "wildlife management" crap.
Yes, many saw my rant with my EK elk thread.
I accept that some years are worse, you see nothing, but tell yourself that "well, its just hunting, that's how it goes".
But ten years of just watching thing get worse, when you didn't think they could, is just sickening.

I no longer trust one bit of the "data" we have!
And, just for the record, I don't blame guys like Fisher Dude when he puts up the numbers, cause he is just passing along the info that's there on record.

It's the policies that have occurred over the past 20 years, in my opinion, that have us all F****d! for the future.
And, in the end, we will all see what they do best, more closures, more restrictions, and still further declines.
Boy, do I feel happy these days (it's 1 pm, where's that bottle of scotch I been saving...)

[Wild one]

Honestly. I am just getting "disgusted" with this whole "wildlife management" crap.
Yes, many saw my rant with my EK elk thread.
I accept that some years are worse, you see nothing, but tell yourself that "well, its just hunting, that's how it goes".
But ten years of just watching thing get worse, when you didn't think they could, is just sickening.

I no longer trust one bit of the "data" we have!
And, just for the record, I don't blame guys like Fisher Dude when he puts up the numbers, cause he is just passing along the info that's there on record.

It's the policies that have occurred over the past 20 years, in my opinion, that have us all F****d! for the future.
And, in the end, we will all see what they do best, more closures, more restrictions, and still further declines.
Boy, do I feel happy these days (it's 1 pm, where's that bottle of scotch I been saving...)

Welcome to my world sir and the more you learn the more frustrating it is

No secret I don’t see eye to eye with FD and I don’t blame him or BCs bios for that matter when it comes to the numbers. The only issue I have with these people is the support of liberal harvest opportunities with insufficient data on our game populations and harvest

We run the most liberal harvest opportunities in Canada with a major lack of data compared to many provinces and states

[Bugle M In]

What ever happened to all our license money going back to habitat and research etc??.
This is what happen when only 10% (and even doubt that) went "back in".
I have heard talk, but haven't heard s**t since!??

[Bugle M In]

Welcome to my world sir and the more you learn the more frustrating it is

No secret I don’t see eye to eye with FD and I don’t blame him or BCs bios for that matter when it comes to the numbers. The only issue I have with these people is the support of liberal harvest opportunities with insufficient data on our game populations and harvest

We run the most liberal harvest opportunities in Canada with a major lack of data compared to many provinces and states

I like Pat, I think he cares, as so do many others, even If I don't agree with them either.
This is a much deeper issue, and its time to stick the knife right into the guts of the issue now.

[Wild one]

I like Pat, I think he cares, as so do many others, even If I don't agree with them either.
This is a much deeper issue, and its time to stick the knife right into the guts of the issue now.

Even I respect his passion we just share different views but don’t tell him that lol

Hate to say it but we won’t accomplish a thing without a strong voice for hunters and everyone puts greed/ego aside

[Bugle M In]

My suspicion is, if it isn't some of the "directives" from the Bios, (example, saying, now we will only try to sustain 12,000 head of
elk in EK, from say 25,000), if that in fact isn't them, then its the people directly above them, between them and say the
minister of environment (which is a peckerhead, but we have had them before and there will be after him).
I suspect it those folks, the ones that stay in position, regardless of which party is in etc, that we can vote out, that have been in there for years, who are much to blame.

[HarryToolips]

I know they are doing some tracking in the "elephant hill" area with collars too try and get some info the deer numbers in that area.

but i would have too say predators, poor management system, fires, winter kill.
Fires greatly benifet wildlife in the years after the fire, contrary to popular belief..

[HarryToolips]

I am having my doubts about this survey.
Just looking at the elk in R4, they say 15,000 + , but its my understanding they thing it is less then 6500 now?
Makes me wonder about the accuracy of any of it.?
Don't mean to be so cynical, but as of late, I have my suspicions on a lot of things not being what they say they are.
I thought the last estimate was 6500 ish elk just in the EK??

[HarryToolips]

My suspicion is, if it isn't some of the "directives" from the Bios, (example, saying, now we will only try to sustain 12,000 head of
elk in EK, from say 25,000), if that in fact isn't them, then its the people directly above them, between them and say the
minister of environment (which is a peckerhead, but we have had them before and there will be after him).
I suspect it those folks, the ones that stay in position, regardless of which party is in etc, that we can vote out, that have been in there for years, who are much to blame.
I agree though, more money needs to go into wildlife and wildlife inventory, if the BC Liberals were going to get in, I thought they pledged all our hunting revenue goes back into wildlife...funny how the NDP and the so called "Green" party, which should care for wildlife, hasn't done this..

[Wild one]

Fires greatly benifet wildlife in the years after the fire, contrary to popular belief..

Nutrition wise yes in areas where wintering grounds were effected fire can also have a negative effect

[Nickodeamus]

The most recent study is from 2017
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/2017_Provincial_Ungulate_Numbers_Sept_18_Final.pdf

Older studies from 2008 and 2011
https://www.crd.bc.ca/docs/default-source/regional-planning-pdf/Regional-Deer-Management/deer-population-trends.pdf?sfvrsn=2

[Bugle M In]

The most recent study is from 2017
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/2017_Provincial_Ungulate_Numbers_Sept_18_Final.pdf

Older studies from 2008 and 2011
https://www.crd.bc.ca/docs/default-source/regional-planning-pdf/Regional-Deer-Management/deer-population-trends.pdf?sfvrsn=2

hmmmm, it states we have 220 Cariboo still in the EK (granted, I am looking at 2017, lol)
Anyways, I think they need to go back and recount.
Think there are some other #'s that I read recently that don't jive with that document.

[sizedoes matter]

Interesting to see half the provinces whitetail are in region 4

[Bugle M In]

Looks like we need more resources (time, people and money) to get "better, more accurate counts".
Also, it can tell us exactly how low #'s can get to the point that that species can "no longer recover".
We banned hunting Boo years ago, and yet they disappeared anyways (due to Preds in the end, but
maybe not the actual start of decline years ago, but defiantly they're extinction in the area now).

Only trying to point out to everyone that if we let the #'s slide too low on certain species in certain areas,
they may never recover anymore as the Preds will finish them off.
Something we all need to be aware of!
I look at the EK elk count, and I know from what I have read, those #'s in that 2017 stat are "way off"
now.
And the ministry only wants to see half of what we originally had years ago, going forward.

So, I ask, at what point is letting elk #'s there drop, where they may no longer recover also due to preds
doing what preds do.

220 caribou was obviously "not enough" any more to recover!
Cant remember what the actual # was for them when we did ban hunting them in the area.?????
But, whatever that # was, it also "wasn't enough" anymore.
So, there is a critical level certain species can no longer recover from.
Especially now in the presence of so many Preds.
Preds were down way back when, so that "old school thinking and # counting" was workable.
In the present situation, "it isn't"!!!