First Nations Pit Lamping?

[jiboo88]

Just a legal question here,
Are native folk actually allowed to discharge their firearm at night?

[wideopenthrottle]

sad but true... legal jacklighting

[wideopenthrottle]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/b-c-first-nation-can-hunt-at-night-supreme-court-1.618478


B.C. First Nation can hunt at night: Supreme CourtTwo aboriginal men from British Columbia have the right to hunt deer at night with lights, the Supreme Court ruled in a 4-3 decision Thursday.


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CBC News · Posted: Dec 21, 2006 11:44 AM ET | Last Updated: December 21, 2006

Two aboriginal men from British Columbia have the right to hunt deer at night with lights, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled Thursday.
In a 4-3 decision, the courtsided withIvan Morris and Carl Olsen, members of the Tsartlip First Nation of Vancouver Island.

The men had been convicted in a provincial court of hunting at night by flashlight, a practice that is illegal under B.C.'s Wildlife Act.
But the Supreme Court said the men's treaty rights, in this case,prevail over provincial law. The court overturned theconvictions.
The four judges who ruled in favour of the men saidthat the North Saanich Treaty, signed in 1852,allowsmodern Tsartlip people to hunt using traditional methods.
And Tsartlip people traditionally hunted at night using lights, the judges said.
Originally, the Tsartlip people would have used torchlight, bows and arrows, but their equipment must be allowed to evolve, the judges said.
"And the use of guns, spotlights and motor vehicles reflects the current state of the evolution of the Tsartlip's historic hunting practices," the judges wrote ina summary of their decision.
In the narrow decision, the three dissenting judges argued that night hunting is dangerous and the right to hunt unsafely is not protected by the treaty.
Olsen and Morris were charged in 1996 after they fired five shots at a decoy deer set up by conservation officers to catch people hunting illegally. Olsen and Morris found the deer by flashlight.
After the men lost their case in a provincial court and in the B.C. Court of Appeal, they took itto the Supreme Court. The high court heard their appeal last year.
Decision renews night hunting debateLawyersfor the Tsartlip say Thursday's ruling by the high court means otheraboriginal people should be allowed to hunt at night in B.C. as well, without fear of prosecution.
Louise Mandell notedthat other First Nations may not have treatyrights like the Tsartlip, but huntat nightand have the right to do so as aboriginal people.
"I think that the decision definitelyshines a bright light on the province to make sure that those night-hunting practices are recognized," she said.
However, the B.C. Wildlife Federation's Paul Adams is critical of the decision, calling it dangerous.
He told CBC News that there is a question of public safety, especially in the densely-populatedSaanich Peninsula, north of Victoria, where the Tsartlip live and hunt.
"The discharge of a rifle atnight time when you don't know what is beyond your target is a very dangerous thing for the general public."
Meanwhile,aB.C. law professor said Thursday's judgment is significant at a broader level.
"It shows that treaties can be paramount to provincial law," said John Borrows of the University of Victoria.
"Treaties can have overriding influence over provincial laws. We've seen that before, but we've not seen it before in British Columbia with treaties."

[huntcoop]

Pretty sure they can and do anything they want without any repercussions.

[guest]

Very Dam Sickening really.

[jiboo88]

Some local FN just showed up at the dock and they are running the roads all night, shooting every little baby, doe or whatever moves they can find.
I thought discharging a firearm at night was illegal regardless of race or rights because it is dangerous WTF

[guest]

And the government wonders why theres racism ...... With decisions like this...... I wonder why.

HOW PATHETIC .

One law FOR ALL. ....... PERIOD.

[jiboo88]

What about my right and and my families right to be safe, don't we have a charter or something that covers this. The right to be safe should trump a mindless, wasteful slaughter.
Stewards Of the Land

[Dash]

Some local FN just showed up at the dock and they are running the roads all night, shooting every little baby, doe or whatever moves they can find.
I thought discharging a firearm at night was illegal regardless of race or rights because it is dangerous WTF

Absolutely disgusting... The appalling and sickening slaughter aside, discharging firearms at night IS a safety issue and it's absolutely atrocious that they get away with it. Curly top is exactly right. They act surprised and wonder why there's racism.. Really?

[Foxton Gundogs]

As far as I know ONLY 1 band actually have the right to pitlamp, the rest are just riding their coat tails on the assumption they won't be charged.
Don't charge them with "pitlamping" charge them with Dangerous Use of a Firearm. Anytime you are unsure of your target or what may lay behing it IT'S F-ing DANGEROUS!!!! Period

1 land, 1 law, 1 people!!!!

[RackStar]

I guess these bozos don’t take pride in being good hunters like their ancestors.

You want to hunt at night... use a torch and a recurve bow

no need for electricity and firearms.

[jiboo88]

So what' s the hitch, why are these people not being called out for this behaviour. I really don't understand. other than it's the city folk that generally support a blanket native rights initiative, but if they had to exist with them shooting guns outside their apartment all night it may be different.

[dakoda62]

Yep, wild life stewards don't you know, utter bullcrap as far as i am concerned

[rocksteady]

So what' s the hitch, why are these people not being called out for this behaviour. I really don't understand. other than it's the city folk that generally support a blanket native rights initiative, but if they had to exist with them shooting guns outside their apartment all night it may be different.

They are but no judge will touch the case in fear of being called racist.. been thay way for a looòooong time..

Get used to it...

Status card gives you free reign..

[jiboo88]

What would you guys do if this was happening right beside your house?

[jiboo88]

Hey rocksteady, there's got to be something else we can call those judges for not protecting the general public. I will not accept your post, BS

[Jelvis]

All day alll night Mary Ann down by the sea shore Blacktail in hand. Brad pit arm pit and a pit lamp, shot a deer holding Horgans hand, some said it was Justin Bieber butt it wasn't true doh!
-- No need to get all excited read the above and remember only 1 % of humans in BC are Status Injuns.
Jel -- Brad pit pit lamping - with Jennifer --Aniston -- All day all night Mary Jane down by Sechelt sifting grass -- Hahahahahahaha jist jokin folks don't Bogart

[rocksteady]

Hey rocksteady, there's got to be something else we can call those judges for not protecting the general public. I will not accept your post, BS

Call bs all you want.. talk to a CO.. most wont even charge FN cause they know it will never even go to court

[338win mag]

[QUOTE=jiboo88;2035204]What would you guys do if this was happening right beside your house?[/QUOTE

I would call the mounties first, its a safety concern, then I would call up the band office,, not good enough then i would call up the media,,,, response not good enough then I would.........and I would if I thought my family was threatened by some dipschitts shooting at night.

[Brez]

And the government wonders why theres racism ...... With decisions like this...... I wonder why.

HOW PATHETIC .

One law FOR ALL. ....... PERIOD.

Our governments are fostering and nurturing racism...and then telling us not to be.

[Cat catcher]

That’s ok this weekend here some of the natives went into a sheep conservancy where there is no sheep hunting and shot sheep. Never ends

[Jelvis]

I have never pit lamped any animule in my entire life, and have never seen an Indian buddy pit lamp either.
-- I don't promote it here in Kamloops area, maybe way up north to Alaska butt not here in beauty Kammy Land, no Indian I know has used a pit lamp ever or a no go for me.
--- When you drive down or up to hunt in the morning in the dark, you have 30 minutes b4 sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset and you can get that on your cell.
If you shoot b4 that or after your a pit lamper at full speed.
Jel - no matter what race you are your breaking the Ministry rules, if you shoot in the dark with the lights from your vee hic cal. BC Hunting Regulations 2018 --
--------------Read your rules in the Ministry's Regulations on when your allowed to shoot a deer, in the early morning and at dusk? This is important for
1. Safety reasons, can't see in the bush behind
2. illegal - not only a BC Hunting REG offence , butt now a Firearms offence involving thee R.C.M.P. investigation team, and some R really mean!
3. not what a real hunter woody do and feel good about it, guilty feeling. Like a cheater a loser in the back of the C.O.s cruiser. You get the picture?
4. udders find out you got your record buck in the dark, you lose record in the books, imagine how that looks?
5. cood have a vehicle accident when in a state of " Buck Fever " and your hands on the lever. Like a dropped ball by a NFL receiver.
Jel -- Brad Pitt is the only one who can carry a lamp at night -- If I had Johnny's Ca$h and Charley's Pride, I wouldn't have a Buck Owen!

[quadrakid]

I totally condemn this behaviour. I am pretty sure most native hunters do as well.

[303savage]

Court said the men's treaty rights, in this case,prevail over provincial law.

That's bullshit, Flashlights and firearms are not traditional.

[scoutlt1]

My suggestion (for what it's worth) would be the following....

If post #15 is true, call 911 immediately.

Also, report to RAPP.

Do some research and find out who the senior CO is in your area. Make a call to media outlets (as many as you see fit), and get the name of the person, and their supervisor, who normally "reports" on incidents such as this. Get the email/contact info for your local MLA and MP. Get the contact information for the Minister Responsible both Provincially and Federally. Get the same info for the Opposition critic of those respective Ministries.

You can use this form to report...

https://forms.gov.bc.ca/environment/rapp/

Make sure all the above mentioned people receive a copy of your report. Make sure it's clear to all who is included. In this case, if 911 was called, there would be a case number. Put it in your report and include the attending officer (and their supervisor) in all communications.

If you don't receive a timely response, follow up (with everyone included). If another incident occurs, report again stating that it's not the first report. If there is still no response, follow up yet again. Follow up every day if necessary.

If you send an email out, and want to follow up, it's easy (and free), with a comment like "any updates?".

Any responses you get (from anyone), make sure you respond, and include all that are in your original email. If you talk to anyone involved by phone or in person, make notes and forward an email to that person (again, including everyone), confirming the discussion you had, and any comments you want to add.

I know it seems like a lot of work, but really....it's not.

It's important to keep all of the people involved "in the loop".

Most importantly, it's necessary to hold those who make the laws, have the ability to change the laws, and those who enforce the laws, accountable.

Just my 2 cents...

[hawk-i]

When the courts no longer work for the betterment and equality of our society, it's time to replace the courts!

[Jelvis]

A person is supposed to be 40 metres from any building b4 unloading. I b lieve Willy Alphonse Jr. case covers all this in finality if you want the truth, but people woody rather believe a lie and quarrel like two squrrills over a wal nut behind Wal-Mart in a shopping cart, not too smart.
Jelly Stoned Parks --Repeat after me, " Willy Alphonse Jr." once more a lil louder, " Willy Alphonse Jr. " again spell it out W I L L Y - A L P H O N S E - JR. - gooood.
Willy was the youngest Chief ever in BC and got the law clarified when he was justified over a land slide court ruling set by all Judges on Willy's side.
----- Willy Nelson gave Willy a call and congratulated Willy on thee clarification.

[Mosin]

What would you guys do if this was happening right beside your house?

I would go on HBC and start a bait thread and then ask for advice like you did...seems to work good.

[scoutlt1]

I would go on HBC and start a bait thread and then ask for advice like you did...seems to work good.

Well damn!! Why didn't I think of that???

Could have saved me a lot of typing... :)

[ElectricDyck]

Pretty sure they can and do anything they want without any repercussions.

Well seeing that indians make up 4% of canadas population and they make up 25% of the prison population I'd say theirs eventually some repercussions lol Even in our 2 tier'd justice system..Sorry I shouldn't use facts thats racist:grin:

[fuzzybiscuit]

Pretty sure they can and do anything they want without any repercussions.

When it comes to fish and wildlife they can for sure...

[Drillbit]

Just a legal question here,
Are native folk actually allowed to discharge their firearm at night?

Pretty sure it's legal for everyone to discharge a firearm at night.

Depends on the purpose for other legalities though.

[Jelvis]

I want all members to look up the word Intention. This word will open the door for future problems to be understood in a clearer way.
-- Your partner might have gone to visit a friend in Vancouver, ok ---- so? Why did she go out to the bars and what not with her girlfriends friends?
When she has the most perfect guy in the world Hahahahaha Jist joking around people I get off on talking at you members sometimes. That's all it is.
-- I like to try and stay in a better mood that way.
- and you have to suffer thru the boredom too for a moment longer
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Her intention - why she really went?
Jelly -- Jel A C -- and suspicion -- Elvis put it right, We can't go on to gedder with suspicious minds - we can't build our dreams with you hangin with udder guys ok?
holy

[Gateholio]

Just a legal question here,
Are native folk actually allowed to discharge their firearm at night?

Anybody can discharge a firearm at night as long as it’s done safely

[rocksteady]

Anytime FN want to do whatever they want, when they are xaught, they say they "live by their traditional rules and di not recognize the white mans law"..

Seems to work well for them every time.

If the issue is pressed, they push it back as a constitutional challenge.

[skibum]

Anybody can discharge a firearm at night as long as it’s done safely

Knew a guy who lost a year hunting b/c another camp reported shots at night to the CO. As far as I know he was shooting safely in his camp, but the other camp did not like it. But there may be more to the story from what he told me.

[wideopenthrottle]

When we were at bull river a few years ago you would have heard shots from our camp on almost every night as the grizz would not leave our meat pole alone....my hunting partner was the one wasting all my 12 gauge slugs every night....after we lost one of our deer the 2nd night there, we set up a trail cam in camp as well as a propane tree with lights on all night...we also tied a perimeter rope with cans attached as well as a step ladder tied to the meat with a bucket full of cans on top that would spill if anything touched our meat...by the end of the 10 day trip we had 6 videos that almost all started with the dog barking in the background and ending with a couple of shotgun blasts......If I was a bit more fearful of bears I would have been able to get enough adrenaline going to drag my ass out of bed and shoot that *******....heheheh

[Bugle M In]

I used hunt the Merrit area years ago, above Peter Hope, and before all the logging.
Camped near the big powerlines, as that was really the only large open area at the time, and deer would often cross or
hang out on the edges.
Lost count how many times I saw trucks, with them driving along, using their high powered lamps, and a
bed mattress on the roof of the pickups, 2 guys standing on the back, rifles sitting on the mattress, ready to shoot,
and 2 guys inside the cab.
Friends who had cabins in the area tried to report them, all of them.
Each time they would call it in, the 1st thing the CO asked was:
"Are they Native"?? (which we knew they were, as we would see the same trucks in the daytime)
When you answered "yes". they just said, "we are not coming"!

Total BS, nothing "Aboriginal" about that!, "traditionally speaking".
How sporting!?, and very "disrespectful"!? that is.
Should be ashamed to be called anything but a bunch of "poachers".

[rocksteady]

The aboriginal hunters do not follow the normal rules about try to harvest animals in a "sporting manner" cause they have the ace up the sleeve.... "sustenance hunting"

[Bugle M In]

The aboriginal hunters do not follow the normal rules about try to harvest animals in a "sporting manner" cause they have the ace up the sleeve.... "sustenance hunting"

YEs you a re completely right on the term "sustenance hunting", and that would be/is their argument for justification.
BUT, it still is under the term "traditional"

We have given them (should I say our government who are all lawyers), too many "term" for them to get away with
everything.

Still not Traditional, and still not "Fair Chase".

[338win mag]

I have had this discussion with my indian pals, my buddies dont hunt at night and they abhorr that type of conduct. They refer to them as idiots and a few idiots tarnish the reputation of the entire band.

[Jimbob]

The idea of sporting does not make sense for sustenance hunting. Personally, I am glad they do not hunt as they did traditionally, it was brutal. Ever watch videos of tribes in Africa hunting? 20 guys spearing an elephant or buffalo is a brutal way to go. The buffalo jumps resulted in a tangled mess of half-dead mutilated buffalo at the bottom of a cliff, nothing sporting about that.

Anyways, I have read that night hunting is allowed if it is safe. Interesting article: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/hunters-and-gatherers-indigenous-hunting-fishing-rights-explained-1.4347488

[Bugle M In]

I have had this discussion with my indian pals, my buddies dont hunt at night and they abhorr that type of conduct. They refer to them as idiots and a few idiots tarnish the reputation of the entire band.

Agreed.
I know that.
Just like hunters, there are many that are good folks, and just some bad apples in the bunch.
Hopefully "peer pressure" makes for some changes down the road on "conduct".
IT is nice to know that some FN "get it".
I know some FN that know it is just time to "assimilate" for the better good for everyone, and the planet.
Can't fix yesterday, but we can make tomorrow better.

[Jelvis]

Whiteman brought buffalo to North America and it ate all the deer food.
Jel -- whiteman Buffalo Bill Cody

[Islandeer]

I like my culture better than theirs(FN).
Its a simple fact, I love my family traditions,our family structure and my family history which is recorded on paper and via oral traditions.

Can’t make me be impressed with their whole deal.

[butthead]

can they also have a loaded gun and fire it from in side a vehicle also?