FN issues Repost

[LYKTOHUNT]

I have been thinking a lot about these illegal actions about to be taken against law abiding Canadian citizens, in fact it keeps me awake at night worrying about the state of our province and country that my kids will be left with.This is a very serious issue not only for hunters but for our economy and livelihoods, there seems to be no amount of consultations or reconciliation that will appease FN putting forestry,mining,oil investments at serious risk.Recently I have tried not to post much here as what I have really only accomplished is bitching and stating the obvious with no solutions, so my question is there an effective group that we can offer financial or even verbal support to lobby for our cause.I wish I had the political savvy and eloquence to do something but I dont, we need a strong voice.

I did post this in open chat but maybe here as well would get some interest

[Weatherby Fan]

I hear you loud and clear especially about the future for our kids and following generations........I have been terribly concerned like yourself wishing at times I was a better speaker and more educated to get into politics to try and make a difference.....but its not me.

As a proud Canadian its increasingly frustrating watching our municipal, provincial and federal politicians roll over at every turn, Im not saying there hasn't been wrongs done but with what has been decided in the Supreme Court of Canada is going to ruin this Country which it is well on the way.

This is what I think is in the works for the future.......First Nations will be running the Country totally with in 25 years Federally, Provincially and Municipally, and its not going to be pretty.

[338win mag]

I just posted a similiar message on the other thread before I read this, there are about 5 threads on this very serious issue and your not alone in loosing sleep.

[northernbc]

I agree fellows I'm so pissed

[338win mag]

If a guy gets into a static at a roadblock the mounties will take your guns away if you sneeze the wrong way, the armed FN will get in their truck and drive away before the mounties show up leaving the innocent unarmed blockaders there.
I have no problem with defending myself with violence but I wont go looking for it, nor will I back down so I hope i dont encounter an unfriendly blockade.

[RyoTHC]

If the hunting weren't so good I'd move far out of BC as quick as possible so I could avoid all this bullshit. I assure you it's much worse in BC than other provinces and they are much more entitled and pandered to here...

Pretty much only here for the hunting..

[Island Roo]

I also just posted along the same lines in. another thread.
I know there has been concerns about BCWF but maybe this is a cause that can get them into action and earn back the trust of everyone who has concerns about them. Many of us still pay them and they have the resources and knowledge to get started.
Go Fund me could probably get a lot of $$$ but I don't know how it could be used effectively.

[guest]

Time for ALL to take a stand now.
Our forfathers have contibuted greatly to this country and deserve every opportunity to legally hunt and harvest that FN do.
Just think of what FN wouldn't have if it wasnt for whitey.
They will never stop wanting it all.
Stand up for yourselves.

[boxhitch]

Is there a way back ?
Decisions are out of the political hands, the court of BC and Canada are following a new mandate
The direction is laid out in the United Nations Declaration on The Rights of Indigenous Peoples

Check out JTs speech at the UN in Sept 2017
He wants to make Canada a leading example for other countries around the world
As long as we are apologizing, anything goes

Especially in BC where 100 years ago the lines were not drawn in the dirt with treaties
The new world order for BC will kill any kind of foreign investment and soon resource extraction will be crippled

The road BC is on will soon lead to an almost sovereign state similar to how Quebec is handled, with its own laws and signs
BC history is being re-written with the renaming of peaks parks and rivers
Taxpayers will still be welcome, just the taxes will go to our new BC gov't

[Jelvis]

Gotta get Trans Mountain going, the pipeline Kinder-Morgan rah himes with Horgan -- once that get's delt with properly you'll see success --
-- settle this pipeline first to qwench thy thirst and we;ll be first to come forth --
Jelly -- Stand up, and be counted for what you are about to receive -- you got dah money honey ? I got dah time! :)

[338win mag]

Time for ALL to take a stand now.
Our forfathers have contibuted greatly to this country and deserve every opportunity to legally hunt and harvest that FN do.
Just think of what FN wouldn't have if it wasnt for whitey.
They will never stop wanting it all.
Stand up for yourselves.
You are exactly right here^^^^^ the same can be said of the black man in the USA, if it were not for the infastructure that whitey built here in North America and elsewhere, "those" wouldn't have it so good. Sure it could be improved upon but so far it hasn't been by any other "peeps". Wait for it..........we pay for it too, we are funding the teardown of this province.
I do hope a riff develops within the FN communities, those who want to move forward with their communities,,, and those who dont, because I know for a fact that many FN citizens dont want any confrontation and its the leadership that needs to have their wings clipped.

[Jelvis]

Lotta crooks in the high ups when they join togedder to shaft the public. Nuttin yah can do about it honey!
-- we vote em in we can't vote em out!
Jello -- Polly Tish Inns -- Hafta Shaft yah --

[tinhorse]

The new world order for BC will kill any kind of foreign investment and soon resource extraction will be crippled

The road BC is on will soon lead to an almost sovereign state similar to how Quebec is handled, with its own laws and signs
BC history is being re-written with the renaming of peaks parks and rivers
Taxpayers will still be welcome, just the taxes will go to our new BC gov't

If we lose even another 25% of our resource industry our province will be in a dire state. people will start to revolt if it gets to a point. When you have nothing to loose, why follow the rules set out for you. If they (government) keeps taking away from the majority, soon it will be the majority not following the rules.

[Island Roo]

If we all just sit on our a$$es and post on a hunting forum nothing will happen.
It is useful for us to post and discuss how we will handle confrontations at a roadblock but we need a coordinated response.

I don't have all the answers but we are losing our rights, our land, our values.

This is going down a sad and dangerous road. Look at other examples in history where minorities are given special privileges. It does not end well.

Rules / laws / courts / governments can change. Do it now peacefully or wait for something worse.

The FNs have a coordinate response. We don't - yet.

[Jelvis]

Listen people this isn't just BC, I saw on world finance experts of the world predict 18 years from now -- world financial market crash completely world wide
-------------2036 bye bye world financial structure collapses -- so it isn't just here it's world wide -- same thing a feeling on the unknown creeping in.
Jel

[338win mag]

Island Roo, it looks coordinated, but remember, they have the money to make it coordinated, resident hunters dont have the kind of money for any protracted war of words with the intent of gaining the support of a largely ignorant public. Its going to get ugly and the province has a duty to its citizens to keep the peace.

[Whiterock]

Add me to the list of people worried and frustrated about the future.

[Island Roo]

Island Roo, it looks coordinated, but remember, they have the money to make it coordinated, resident hunters dont have the kind of money for any protracted war of words with the intent of gaining the support of a largely ignorant public. Its going to get ugly and the province has a duty to its citizens to keep the peace.

I agree about the public being ignorant. That ignorance needs to change - the truth needs to told. Occasionally, there is some news about progress about treaties. Most people say - Oh thats nice, the FNs need to be treated fairly (like the rest of us). But most people have no idea what the real consequences are.

I made a couple of suggestions earlier about funding and organization. I think they are both areas that could be explored. Lets hear some more ideas to take this to the next level.

[tinhorse]

If you have a draw, maybe try and hook up with others with the same draw when entering an area. Discuss where you are hunting and know who is around. Strength in numbers. Don't have to hunt the same area but if there are only one or two roads into a zone, it may be beneficial to go through in numbers. If anyone has a 5-14 draw late give me a shout.

[Island Roo]

If nothing else, education and funding could keep the FN's confined to the damage that has been done.
They are currently reaching for much more (at least as I understand it).

To be honest - I don't even know exactly what that means. I still need to educate myself. An honest un-biased information web site would be useful. That would probably be useful for most us on this site but also for the general public.

[325]

Is there a way back ?
Decisions are out of the political hands, the court of BC and Canada are following a new mandate
The direction is laid out in the United Nations Declaration on The Rights of Indigenous Peoples

Check out JTs speech at the UN in Sept 2017
He wants to make Canada a leading example for other countries around the world
As long as we are apologizing, anything goes

Especially in BC where 100 years ago the lines were not drawn in the dirt with treaties
The new world order for BC will kill any kind of foreign investment and soon resource extraction will be crippled

The road BC is on will soon lead to an almost sovereign state similar to how Quebec is handled, with its own laws and signs
BC history is being re-written with the renaming of peaks parks and rivers
Taxpayers will still be welcome, just the taxes will go to our new BC gov't

Very well said

[Island Roo]

Very well said
So you guys are already beat? Give up...

[325]

So you guys are already beat? Give up...


Not at all, but I think Boxhitchs' assessment of the direction we are currently heading is accurate. BTW, what are YOU doing to promote hunting and sensible land use in BC?

[northof49]

The Fed Libs and Prov NDP are accelerating the problems. Get out and vote them out. That is the first step towards a solution....or at least slowing down this madness.

[Island Roo]

Not at all, but I think Boxhitchs' assessment of the direction we are currently heading is accurate. BTW, what are YOU doing to promote hunting and sensible land use in BC?
I am still fairly new to the discussion so I am still trying to educate myself on all the facts.

Im not saying they are all great ideas but I made 3 suggestions Earlier in this thead that could take this talk to the next level.

Since you decided to challenge me , what are YOU doing?

[338win mag]

If nothing else, education and funding could keep the FN's confined to the damage that has been done.
They are currently reaching for much more (at least as I understand it).

To be honest - I don't even know exactly what that means. I still need to educate myself. An honest un-biased information web site would be useful. That would probably be useful for most us on this site but also for the general public.
There is a ton of stuff on this site for your perusal, just look up Sirloins posting of the treatys and other official government documents like this one, but there are many more he has posted.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?146354-NStQ-First-Nations-B-C-Canada-advance-to-final-treaty-negotiations

[Jelvis]

----- > 325 and the rooo folks, challenging each udder, What R U doin doooood? Hahhhhhhhhh? C'mon!
Jello Hello -- Sir Loins for publisher folks? -- 8) -- Sirloin helps tenderize with just the facts mam -- jist dah fax -- never lax -- excellent contacts -- nose dah codes --

[LYKTOHUNT]

If we all just sit on our a$$es and post on a hunting forum nothing will happen.
It is useful for us to post and discuss how we will handle confrontations at a roadblock but we need a coordinated response.

I don't have all the answers but we are losing our rights, our land, our values.

This is going down a sad and dangerous road. Look at other examples in history where minorities are given special privileges. It does not end well.

Rules / laws / courts / governments can change. Do it now peacefully or wait for something worse.

The FNs have a coordinate response. We don't - yet.
That is the purpose of my post, how do we get our word out, who do we petition what can we do legally

[338win mag]

That is the purpose of my post, how do we get our word out, who do we petition what can we do legally
Word of mouth is a good way, I have been doing this several times a day throughout my busy work day, to the non-hunting public mostly, because its not all about hunting. The socialist media will likely turn on you/us, and put a racist spin on it.

[Jelvis]

BCWF is what I woody check out if you want a solid base for hunters already built over decades in BC
Check their site and find out where you can send a small fee to help support the cost they spend. Attend gatherings and join in, part of the solution.
Jel -- check them out and join the rank, more number of members, the more votes -- BCWF is the one to check-out for a solid history in conservation with hunters --

[Island Roo]

There is a ton of stuff on this site for your perusal, just look up Sirloins posting of the treatys and other official government documents like this one, but there are many more he has posted.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?146354-NStQ-First-Nations-B-C-Canada-advance-to-final-treaty-negotiations

Thanks for that. Sometimes it hard to tell who is expressing facts vs opinion on public forums.

dont have time for much of a response now but want to retract the defensive reply I made earlier.
I think we’re all on the same page here - it’s easy for the anger to start coming out. Gotta work together on this

[LYKTOHUNT]

Word of mouth is a good way, I have been doing this several times a day throughout my busy work day, to the non-hunting public mostly, because its not all about hunting. The socialist media will likely turn on you/us, and put a racist spin on it.

I do the same but some figure there goes that crazy old racist white dude again, they do not know what we are in for and when I say we I mean them as well

[Jagermeister]

Much as I hate to say it, but the BCWF is no longer viable. It does not have the capability to lobby so a new organization is in order. I think that a new organizational will need to include all citizens who are not recepient of First Nations benefits. A unified organization that is goal oriented and a low cost membership so all walks of life can join. First Nations not welcome, status or not. Sounds racist but no worse than First Nations. Jelvis to be excluded.
Are we ready?

[Bugle M In]

Much as I hate to say it, but the BCWF is no longer viable. It does not have the capability to lobby so a new organization is in order. I think that a new organizational will need to include all citizens who are not recepient of First Nations benefits. A unified organization that is goal oriented and a low cost membership so all walks of life can join. First Nations not welcome, status or not. Sounds racist but no worse than First Nations. Jelvis to be excluded.
Are we ready?

I have been trying to say that for a few years now, just, you said it better then I ever could!!
I do not want to put down the BCWF, as I know they have tried their best, and yes, as with anything, there are mistakes and growing pains.(so need to keep bringing it up folks!!)

We do need an Association or what have you, that can make a difference for against this whole FN fiasco.
Yes, a low membership, and hopefully some supported funding from some of the "big boys".
And yes, not just RH, but GO's as well.
Time to work together here folks, for not just us, but OUR CHILDREN, and their future.
Would be nice if some, who have belonged to some other organizations, or from the federation in the past, who "know" how this needs to work, could join in.
Or, it's time for the BCWF to somehow "rebrand" itself.
I get it, and others should as well, BCWF is for wildlife, and it's members are hunters.
But we need representation now for HUNTERS going forward, like right F'n NOW!!!

[HarryToolips]

I agree about the public being ignorant. That ignorance needs to change - the truth needs to told. Occasionally, there is some news about progress about treaties. Most people say - Oh thats nice, the FNs need to be treated fairly (like the rest of us). But most people have no idea what the real consequences are.

I made a couple of suggestions earlier about funding and organization. I think they are both areas that could be explored. Lets hear some more ideas to take this to the next level.
I have a bro who can make webpages......I think if we all start putting our $$$ toward a resident hunters of BC organization rather than the BCWF it would be a good thing, as we would at least have a voice...BCWF has proven that they don't stand up for resident hunters, and if they're first and foremost a conservation organization ,then how come they haven't actually stood up to the First Nations in the Caribou region, and told them to stop shooting cow and calf moose??

I quite frankly dont don't have the knowledge or time to start a new organization, but like I said, I would help out anyone where and when I can in any way possible, and I could construct a webpage for such an organization with my brother....are we all going to start doing something about our rights being eroded away, or are we just going to keep whining on here?? Imagine if we all put 30-50$ a year toward such an organization, rather than putting that $$ toward the BCWF? We'd at least have money toward publishing some articles, and calling certain groups out when they spew BS...

[PressurePoint]

In the world of hyper liberalism, if a person takes any position other than supporting the cause you are a racist....

[HarryToolips]

Much as I hate to say it, but the BCWF is no longer viable. It does not have the capability to lobby so a new organization is in order. I think that a new organizational will need to include all citizens who are not recepient of First Nations benefits. A unified organization that is goal oriented and a low cost membership so all walks of life can join. First Nations not welcome, status or not. Sounds racist but no worse than First Nations. Jelvis to be excluded.
Are we ready?
Amen, let me know how I can help....anyone know where to start? Like I said, say the word and what you folks want on a webpage, and I can make one (give me time) with my brother....let's stop beating a stick against a tree and get something started....

[Jelvis]

Where do I send the ca$h?
Jel - 2 lips? :p --

[HarryToolips]

My bad:my apology to the BCWF...

http://bcwf.net/index.php/new-items-sp-25573/news-updates

Looks like the BCWF is issuing some letters in order to stand up for our rights...however, I believe they still need to be more vocal....have they issued these recent letters to the Province or any other mainstream news Feeds??

[bearvalley]

I get it that everyone is pissed but this battle won’t be won by non native hunters squaring off with the native ones.
Thats what’s been the past way of doing business and it sure as hell hasn’t worked.
Resident hunters represented by the BCWF, guides under GOABC and First Nations have blamed each other and bickered like kids for years.
Respectfully working with FN’s and educating them on wildlife issues going forward will go a hell of a lot farther than drawing lines in the sand.
You guys better study what’s going on right now....there’s been a few political statements made by a handful of First Nations that are beginning to be involved in wildlife management and they were delivered wrong in my opinion.
The messages have been what I would call a grandstand show of concern.
No real facts are their to back these concerns even if in some localized areas these bans that FN’s are demanding are actually warranted.
That said there is reason for concern.
When the first ban request became announced gasoline was thrown on the fire when a nonfactual, fear mongering letter was sent to our illustrious Premier.
It’s to bad the non hunter that signed his name to that letter and his non hunting staff that helped write it didn’t try a tactful approach instead of wading in blind.
Instead of listening and working on a solution to manage these fire impacted areas the race card got pulled and the feathers came out.
That letter was nothing more than a rally call...done in David Suzuki style.....now we get to pay for it.

[bearvalley]

My bad:my apology to the BCWF...

http://bcwf.net/index.php/new-items-sp-25573/news-updates

Looks like the BCWF is issuing some letters in order to stand up for our rights...however, I believe they still need to be more vocal....have they issued these recent letters to the Province or any other mainstream news Feeds??

That one letter is interesting ..... considering that 3 Guide outfitters in the area that burnt completely cancelled their season.
That contradicts the BS that was being peddled to Horgan.
In my opinion there’s a lot of country up there that wasn’t close to the fires and hunting should carry on.
Some of the highly impacted areas need to be closed.
No one that has not seen it can make that call.

[Bugle M In]

That one letter is interesting ..... considering that 3 Guide outfitters in the area that burnt completely cancelled their season.
That contradicts the BS that was being peddled to Horgan.
In my opinion there’s a lot of country up there that wasn’t close to the fires and hunting should carry on.
Some of the highly impacted areas need to be closed.
No one that has not seen it can make that call.

Your probably right in the fact, if you haven't seen it, you can't make the call etc.
I won't debate that.
The issue I think in regards to this thread is:
Who is going to make the call?
How much of what the FN say is correct, like your thoughts?
And, how much is an "over reach by FN"?
What gives FN the right to say what Non FN can do?
Who gives them the right to blockade us (are we now governed by them)?
That they are not asking "ALL" their members to stop as well, but are "telling" the rest of us that "we have to stop".
Who is to "enforce them??, they themselves???
Which leads to, for the rest of us, "we seriously doubt there would be any consequences" for those of them that do hunt on,
as compared as to what happens to the rest of us etc.
Why can they go into other areas, also which have been hit by fire, with motor vehicles, yet we cant?

That's the issue here.
Those are some big issues my friend thru out the province right now.
It's about them "blocking roads" illegally, without recourse or repercussions.

They are taking things into their own hands, with large claims about their opinions/rights.
And many here are ready to do the same in "our way" as well now.
Not a good place to be in.
And those in charge better get this straightened out quick, and most importantly, better make sure it is fair/equal to everyone.

Then we my friend can discuss what should be closed or not.
I am with you there, but this is a separate issue, a "big one" for you and me and everyone else not FN for today and years to come.
That's what we are mad as hell about.

We are not discussing whether the area should be closed, we are asking:
"Who the hell is actually in Charge Anymore"???

[bearvalley]

We are not discussing whether the area should be closed, we are asking:
"Who the hell is actually in Charge Anymore"???

So far nothing more is closed...hopefully the closures stay within evacuation order areas and maybe a few small localized areas of traditional FN hunting value.
Thats the message some of us are going with.
It sure as hell isnt the message that the gloves are off as some want to throw out.

[LYKTOHUNT]

Thanks everyone some great responses and so far pretty respectful and it would seem we all agree in general.
For me I am distrustful that this only about moose, I think its more about power and revenge,it sure would be nice if I was wrong.
I am all for closing area,s directly impacted by fires, I have no desire to stomp around in a burned landscape but the area,s they claim are so big its way over reaching.
I have no problem putting up some money, I am not wealthy by any stretch but could throw a couple hundred bucks in the hat to start and if there is a yearly membership I am in for that as well.
I know decisions made by both Trudeau's (God help us ) and United Nations have mostly doomed us,but hopefully we slow the train wreck down

[Island Roo]

All well said.
There is a power vacuum with the authorities sitting around doing nothing and the FN's are flexing to see how far they can push it.

If I really thought the moose were in danger and everyone in the province was banned for - as many years it would take - I would gladly tear up my LEH.

[britman101]

Someone mentioned UNDRIP and the effect this United Nations Declaration could have on Canada with respect to Indigenous peoples rights and freedoms within this country. If Trudeau goes ahead and gives full approval to this declaration it will be a game changer with respect to the rights and powers it will give to first nations people especially with respect to hunting and fishing in this country. For instance here is article 32 from the declaration:


Article 32
1. Indigenous peoples have the right to determine and
develop priorities and strategies for the development or
use of their lands or territories and other resources.
2. States shall consult and cooperate in good faith with
the indigenous peoples concerned through their own
representative institutions in order to obtain their free
and informed consent prior to the approval of any project
affecting their lands or territories and other resources,
particularly in connection with the development,
utilization or exploitation of mineral, water or other
resources.
3. States shall provide effective mechanisms for
just and fair redress for any such activities, and
appropriate measures shall be taken to mitigate adverse
environmental, economic, social, cultural or spiritual
impact.

[HappyJack]

All well said.
There is a power vacuum with the authorities sitting around doing nothing and the FN's are flexing to see how far they can push it.

If I really thought the moose were in danger and everyone in the province was banned for - as many years it would take - I would gladly tear up my LEH.

I'd be happy as hell if I could get a moose LEH in the areas the FNs have in that map, have gotten lucky twice since 1982. From my standpoint I'd support getting rid of all leh moose tags, then all licensed resident hunters would be on the same level and we wouldn't run into camps of LML hunters where everyone in camp has a draw. PS...and cut back the 25% allocations that are gifted to the outfitters, it's obscene.

[boxhitch]

The Fed Libs and Prov NDP are accelerating the problems. Get out and vote them out. That is the first step towards a solution....or at least slowing down this madness.It would appear that way but the issue has been brewing for decades, previous governments just skated by. Then the recent Supreme Court decisions on rights and land claims is what really brought things to where we are today.
Politicians can actually just shrug and carry out the orders, no will has to go into the

So one can argue all day as to whether the Courts get directives from some political party, or left- or right- wing nut bars
or suggest the courts are infiltrated or stacked with apologists from on wing or the other
the fact remains they hold the trump cards and it didn't happen because of the last election

[boxhitch]

Others are asking if and how they can grow a ground swell of support against indigenous groups taking control of BC and its economy
Going beyond the hunters in the province, take a look at who else is in the fray

Big business should be concerned, but much of that is foreign owned and fluid in where it does business
Eventually , maybe, these players wil be able to work with the new governing body, time will see how that plays out

So that leaves small business and property owners and others that enjoy BC
What percentage of citizens of BC are multi-generational and have roots strong enough to fight over?
How many have a local heritage they want preserved ?

With the vast majority (70% ?? 80%?? ) living in the LML and south V.I., fortunately most are happy to stay close to home
while others look to the rest of BC for recreation including hunting and angling

Then there is the number that will be negatively impacted by changes
Some way has to be found to build a cause and a united voice in that group

Just my observations, certainly not from a brainiac or a rocket surgeon

[Jack Russell]

In the world of hyper liberalism, if a person takes any position other than supporting the cause you are a racist....

call me whatever you want, but enough is enough. I'm tired of watching our opportunities being eroded for other special needs and fulfilling a political agenda. I was born in this country and in this province just like them.

[338win mag]

I'd be happy as hell if I could get a moose LEH in the areas the FNs have in that map, have gotten lucky twice since 1982. From my standpoint I'd support getting rid of all leh moose tags, then all licensed resident hunters would be on the same level and we wouldn't run into camps of LML hunters where everyone in camp has a draw. PS...and cut back the 25% allocations that are gifted to the outfitters, it's obscene.
WTF??? ......over.

[Pemby_mess]

Others are asking if and how they can grow a ground swell of support against indigenous groups taking control of BC and its economy
Going beyond the hunters in the province, take a look at who else is in the fray

Big business should be concerned, but much of that is foreign owned and fluid in where it does business
Eventually , maybe, these players wil be able to work with the new governing body, time will see how that plays out


Business interests will always find a way to work within a firm regulatory environment. The nature of the legal framework is somewhat less important, if one is looking at things without an entrenched ideology. If there are a bunch of changes afoot, it will be hard to convince smart money to make long term investments, because they can't predict what the rules will be when that investment starts yielding.

Most businesses aren't going to care whether they're writing cheques to the Crown, or to a FN government. It's the relationship of numerical values making up those cheques that matter.

What will kill business investment is an environment of long term uncertainty and anxiety. There are many in government, and those that represent them, that thrive off this set-up. It's in the direct long-term interest of politicians, lawyers and some old-stock crony businesses to drag out this process inevitably. Businesses in general want to see a resolution - period. Large and small alike.

[Island Roo]

Business interests will always find a way to work within a firm regulatory environment. The nature of the legal framework is somewhat less important, if one is looking at things without an entrenched ideology. If there are a bunch of changes afoot, it will be hard to convince smart money to make long term investments, because they can't predict what the rules will be when that investment starts yielding.

Most businesses aren't going to care whether they're writing cheques to the Crown, or to a FN government. It's the relationship of numerical values making up those cheques that matter.

What will kill business investment is an environment of long term uncertainty and anxiety. There are many in government, and those that represent them, that thrive off this set-up. It's in the direct long-term interest of politicians, lawyers and some old-stock crony businesses to drag out this process inevitably. Businesses in general want to see a resolution - period. Large and small alike.
Business will also walk away when they have too many governments claiming jurisdiction.
How many governments will we have in B.C. when the dust settles. There will be more inviting places to invest elsewhere.

[Pemby_mess]

Business will also walk away when they have too many governments claiming jurisdiction.
How many governments will we have in B.C. when the dust settles. There will be more inviting places to invest elsewhere.

I agree with you in a sense, but I interpret "settled dust" as being an agreed upon framework for legislation and court decisions to be predicted and therefore negotiated. The number of governments a business would have to deal with isn't going to necessarily change radically under a two row wampum regime. We usually think of the government hierarchy as Federal>Provincial>Local.

Under territorial FN governments, there isn't necessarily an other layer being added. Some of the responsibilities of all three tiers will be shifted to the local level. In some respects dealing with FN governments after "the dust has settled" will likely be much more "inviting" than the current status quo. Yes, for large, transnational projects there will be larger, more complex negotiations depending on the details of the final framework, but that is no different from jurisdictions elsewhere in the world with a large percentage of private land ownership.

[Jimbob]

Here is my take

1. Hunters need to do a better job of representing themselves. This comes in the form of ACTUAL conservation. Are we showing that we are leading the cause for conservation? How many hours a year are you volunteering for conservation? How much money are you donating? Are you attending meetings and having civil discussions with people with different views? I am not doing this stuff but I see that it is very important if we want hunting to have a future. I need to start. I just listened to a Journal of Mountain Hunting podcast that discussed this. Check this link for an organization that is trying to get hunters and business' to do more

https://fishandwildlife.org/


2. We need to educate ourselves about FN issues and understand the rights they have. If you go in fighting against a brick wall it is just stupid and a waste of time and money. If we can respect and understand that FN's have certain rights then we know when those rights are abused. if we say EVERYTHING they do is wrong then we lose all credibility. If we affirm their rights but raise awareness of abuse I think that gives more credibility. Yelling. screaming, and being racist will make us look bad as a group and give zero credibility to what we say.

If we, as hunters, are leaders in conservation (giving time and money) and we respect and affirm FN rights then I think we can be a strong group.

[boxhitch]

Yes, for large, transnational projects there will be larger, more complex negotiations depending on the details of the final framework, but that is no different from jurisdictions elsewhere in the world with a large percentage of private land ownership. I can see where the transitional period will be protracted by the side that has the control but the inability to cope with the extra work. It shows already in how consultation and negotiations are poorly represented or the reps have to take issues back to their members for discussion. Growing pains that will clear in time no doubt, but how long. We are just scratching the surface now, wait until 'control of all natural resources' kicks in.

[BromBones]

It would appear that way but the issue has been brewing for decades, previous governments just skated by. Then the recent Supreme Court decisions on rights and land claims is what really brought things to where we are today.
Politicians can actually just shrug and carry out the orders, no will has to go into the

So one can argue all day as to whether the Courts get directives from some political party, or left- or right- wing nut bars
or suggest the courts are infiltrated or stacked with apologists from on wing or the other
the fact remains they hold the trump cards and it didn't happen because of the last election

You are 100% correct. These issues are purely the fault of past and current governments. The approach for the last 100 years has been to ignore the problem and hope it goes away. If you go back and look at things like the Tahltan Declaration from 1910, they were pushing hard for negotiations with the Crown and basically stated it would be in everyone's best interests and they didn't want to have conflict with 'The Whites', as it was put. They offered to give up a large chunk of their claimed territory for compensation. That offer would never happen today.

As aggravating as it is, a lot of the bands have a legitimate claim, being that the Governments refused to negotiate, and the longer these issues are stalled the more we will lose.

The only solution is for all groups affected to put immense pressure on the Provincial and Federal Governments and hold them accountable to get negotiations done. Butting heads with the natives wont accomplish anything good.

Only 3 bands have signed final agreements, plus the Nisgaa who went outside the process. The Tahltan are also going outside the BC Treaty process. There are 60 or so other bands part way into negotiations or just starting the process. At this rate it most of us will be long gone before deals are signed.

Government needs to be strong-armed into making this issue a priority.

[brn2ryd]

I was born in a public hospital on unceded First Nation Territory. Wondering where I can apply for a passport? I have discovered I am not actually Canadian, or a British Columbian as 150%(?????) of BC is FN Territory.
/S :-P

In all seriousness, it breaks my heart knowing all the shit that First Nation people have been through. The cultural genocide left scars and gaping wounds that have not been healed. But I believe that they can be healed - The holocaust is a good example. What can we learn from that, that will help us move forward. Justin can apologize, I can apologize, we can all apologize. But the apology, for the most part, cannot breach a sympathetic level. You don't seek retribution from the person who says they are sorry that your dog died (unless they killed your dog). Punishing the perpetrator, their Children, and their children's children is some old testament shit (or maybe north Korean dictator shit).

Hunting is only one of the issues driving a wedge between First nations and British Columbia. Even though it does not have the same historical/cultural significance, can you not draw parallels with other issues? For example, Is the oil not on their land? Are the trees not on their land? Is my house not on their land?

I understand hunting is not my right, but it's also something my ancestors did. I hunt for sustenance. I hunt to provide for my family. I hunt because I love it.
I am proud to be Canadian, and always will be. It's my home on Native Land.

[northernbc]

Hunting is your right paid for in blood overseas.

[Wild one]

You are 100% correct. These issues are purely the fault of past and current governments. The approach for the last 100 years has been to ignore the problem and hope it goes away. If you go back and look at things like the Tahltan Declaration from 1910, they were pushing hard for negotiations with the Crown and basically stated it would be in everyone's best interests and they didn't want to have conflict with 'The Whites', as it was put. They offered to give up a large chunk of their claimed territory for compensation. That offer would never happen today.

As aggravating as it is, a lot of the bands have a legitimate claim, being that the Governments refused to negotiate, and the longer these issues are stalled the more we will lose.

The only solution is for all groups affected to put immense pressure on the Provincial and Federal Governments and hold them accountable to get negotiations done. Butting heads with the natives wont accomplish anything good.

Only 3 bands have signed final agreements, plus the Nisgaa who went outside the process. The Tahltan are also going outside the BC Treaty process. There are 60 or so other bands part way into negotiations or just starting the process. At this rate it most of us will be long gone before deals are signed.

Government needs to be strong-armed into making this issue a priority.

This is correct on all levels

These issues cannot be solved permanently with direct public conflict with FN but pressuring govt to address in a fair and timely manner could archive results

The issues we face truly are the result of govt brushing FN issues under the rug for generations

[sthdslayer]

I agree these issues must be resolved but we need to have appropriate representation to ensure the rights of all citizens of Canada are respected. We cannot turn back the clock, we can't undo what happened in the past we can only influence the future. I believe that that future needs include all Canadians in a fair balanced approach that will improve the quality of life for the average FN not just Lawyers and a handful of influential FN

[338win mag]

Much as I hate to say it, but the BCWF is no longer viable. It does not have the capability to lobby so a new organization is in order. I think that a new organizational will need to include all citizens who are not recepient of First Nations benefits. A unified organization that is goal oriented and a low cost membership so all walks of life can join. First Nations not welcome, status or not. Sounds racist but no worse than First Nations. Jelvis to be excluded.
Are we ready?
If this is the desired policy then I guess I'm out, doesn't sound racist, sounds stupid.

[HappyJack]

I agree with banning the LEH hunts when the moose population is threatened...they should close down all the guide outfitters in those effected areas too. It's about time someone got the medias attention to this epic mismanagement of our wildlife resources, 16 plus years of neglect and abuse.

[Danny_29]

Hunting is your right paid for in blood overseas.

I'll bite. Please elaborate.

[Danny_29]

Quote Originally Posted by Jagermeister View Post
Much as I hate to say it, but the BCWF is no longer viable. It does not have the capability to lobby so a new organization is in order. I think that a new organizational will need to include all citizens who are not recepient of First Nations benefits. A unified organization that is goal oriented and a low cost membership so all walks of life can join. First Nations not welcome, status or not. Sounds racist but no worse than First Nations. Jelvis to be excluded.
Are we ready?


Nope...super illegal. Try again.

[browningboy]

Quote Originally Posted by Jagermeister View Post
Much as I hate to say it, but the BCWF is no longer viable. It does not have the capability to lobby so a new organization is in order. I think that a new organizational will need to include all citizens who are not recepient of First Nations benefits. A unified organization that is goal oriented and a low cost membership so all walks of life can join. First Nations not welcome, status or not. Sounds racist but no worse than First Nations. Jelvis to be excluded.
Are we ready?


Nope...super illegal. Try again.


What is illegal about it? If you minus the First Nation remarks? You could make the club and call it second nations? No different, to create a organization is in fact really easy, in fact if you could be non profit and all the better.

[Kb3]

I agree with this post, I don't post much on here but I read most posts and as a father I am very worried about what my children will be left with when they grow up and try to access the outdoors. I have lived all over Canada, in big cities and small, up north and down south, and I am very concerned with the direction that we are going. Pandering to a bunch of whining liberals that generally have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Look at the recent grizzly bear hunt as an example. Voted by and approved by a few thousand in the lower mainland that have never even seen a bear before except on TV. Crack heads setting up tents everywhere in larger cities, raping, stealing and selling drugs but police do nothing except harass the same tax payers that pay their salaries for going 10km over the speed limit. The double standards and hypocrisies that exist in Canada make me sick. FN are another huge issue and I don't see it getting better any time soon. It seems like this country is built on double standards. I am taxed to death to pay for crackhead and 'natives' to sit on their ass and cry for more handouts. Our prime minister is a pussy that apologizes to anyone and anything with a pulse. I love my country but I am honestly so frustrated and feel trapped. Not sure what to do. Oh, and don't look at 10 year employment rates for immigrants to Canada unless you want to raise your blood pressure a few more points. The hard workers are taxed to pay for the lazy.

[sthdslayer]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/indigenous-rights-framework-letter-trudeau-1.4818000

This is the direction Trudeau wants to go

[BCJaeger]

Oh, and don't look at 10 year employment rates for immigrants to Canada unless you want to raise your blood pressure a few more points. The hard workers are taxed to pay for the lazy.

Be careful with that one. As an immigrant you enter Canada either with a work permit or as a permanent immigrant. If you have a work permit only and you lose your job without finding another one immediately you can go back home loosing everything you worked for in Canada. As a permanent immigrant you have the same obligations (taxed to death) and rights as a citizen does but without the right to vote. And if you happen to do something stupid then again you can go back home loosing everything you worked for. How is that? If you as a Canadian citizen feels trapped believe me immigrants feel even worse.

[Danny_29]

What is illegal about it? If you minus the First Nation remarks? You could make the club and call it second nations? No different, to create a organization is in fact really easy, in fact if you could be non profit and all the better.

The illegal part that you minus out is illegal.

[edgar11]

I agree with this post, I don't post much on here but I read most posts and as a father I am very worried about what my children will be left with when they grow up and try to access the outdoors. I have lived all over Canada, in big cities and small, up north and down south, and I am very concerned with the direction that we are going. Pandering to a bunch of whining liberals that generally have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Look at the recent grizzly bear hunt as an example. Voted by and approved by a few thousand in the lower mainland that have never even seen a bear before except on TV. Crack heads setting up tents everywhere in larger cities, raping, stealing and selling drugs but police do nothing except harass the same tax payers that pay their salaries for going 10km over the speed limit. The double standards and hypocrisies that exist in Canada make me sick. FN are another huge issue and I don't see it getting better any time soon. It seems like this country is built on double standards. I am taxed to death to pay for crackhead and 'natives' to sit on their ass and cry for more handouts. Our prime minister is a pussy that apologizes to anyone and anything with a pulse. I love my country but I am honestly so frustrated and feel trapped. Not sure what to do. Oh, and don't look at 10 year employment rates for immigrants to Canada unless you want to raise your blood pressure a few more points. The hard workers are taxed to pay for the lazy.

Kb3 I think what we don't realize is that we share the same concerns regardless of the color of our skin. We are all human beings who live in the same plot of land in general. However, most of us fail to see a common problem and a common denominator in all of this. Ultimately, the Government dictates EVERYTHING that happens to us. What rules we follow etc. etc. etc. What we do to people and what we do different if your skin is a different color. BUT, we go and blame the people who have been following these rules since the beginning and condemn them for wanting what they had before contact. This includes holding value to mother earth and all that she provides and valuing it more then MONEY. A very different concept that a lot of people do not understand. Hence the differences and arguments that I have heard over the years on this site.
The FN people are in a "rebuild" or "healing" stage after the residential school/60's scoop era's devastating effect on their way of life. We are like all other people in that there are bad apples in the bunch and these are the one's that are pointed out continuously. The good ones are never mentioned. I mean never.
I would like my kids to grow up in a world where there is no hatred, no biases, no greed, etc. WE need to lead by example and not act like a bunch of kids ourselves. We need to learn from our mistakes and not repeat them.
There is enough room in this country for all of us to live in harmony but we have to be willing to work together. I do not see a lot of that on this site. Most of my friends are non FN and they share the same values and ethics as I do.
Educating ourselves is key as well as having empathy for fellow "human beings" no matter what color their skin is. My kids know no difference in people just because the color of their skin and I would hope the rest of you teach your kids the same thing. If not, I see problems down the road for them, unfortunately.

[Kb3]

Jaeger, good points. To clarify, I have a problem with my tax dollars being spent bringing unskilled immigrants to Canada. We spend millions of dollars every year to grow our population through immigration, yet IVF is not covered through medical services. Why doesn't Canada support its current citizens?
My lineage is European, I understand that immigration is necessary but can we not be more selective? I have family members who are RCMP as well as border services, do you have any idea how much the boat that brought the Sri Lankan's to Vancouver cost Canadians? Do you know how many were convicts in their own countries? Now we have unregulated boarders in Ontario with unskilled workers coming in every day. My issue is with our government that needs to grow a spine and tell people no sometimes.

[Kb3]

Edgar, well said and I agree, the color of your skin should be irrelevant. What is relevant is how you act, what your morals and values are, are you honest, how you conduct yourself. These traits are important to all people regardless of race. If FN are concerned with the earth and animals on it then why don't they stop harvesting animals with low numbers or animals that have been hit hard by fires? Or stop fishing when they know the fish stocks are critically low? I have no issues with anyone hunting or fishing, I just wish that the same rules applied to everyone and if you break the rules you are punished. We are one country with different rules for different people, this creates resentment. If one group is given preferential treatment (FN) over all other groups (white, black, Spanish, Asian, ect) this causes resentment and is called racism. Essentially when it come to mammals and fish FN are racist to all other groups in Canada. I am a status Metis btw.

[sparky300winmag]

the views you've all stated is shared by every hunter / fisherman i know. this is all going to blow up soon. i know if i hunted an area and the FN tried stopping me , someone would get hurt. i recommend if anyone has an altercation , to video it because the FN seem to be untouchable. we need someone with legal and political experience to head a group to voice our concerns and educate the non hunting/fishing public about the trillions of $$$ the canadian people dole out to the FN.

here is an article i cam across:



This Calgary Sun article tells some staggering truths and historical facts
If you were wondering why aboriginals always want an inquiry into anything
and everything they can dream up. Just think of free hotel stays, free food
and incidentals, not to mention the bar fridge that gets stocked up every day


in their rooms.
This Calgary Sun article tells some staggering truths and historical facts.
I hope you are open-minded enough to make an objective read.
I will add one interesting fact - since 1946 the Canadian Government has spent
$3,300,000,000.00 That is 3.3 TRILLION on Indian Affairs with NO RETURN
on the investment.

Should be reading material for ALL Canadians. This article is absolutely correct.
Some very interesting statistics for each individual to consider but anyone with
a background knows this to be true already! The fact is that the bleeding hearts
and vote mongering Politicians don't want the general public to know this,,,
so let's spread it around!!
Judging from an article in The Calgary Sunentitled "Enough is Enough", a National
Enquiry into missing and murdered aboriginal women is NOT what needs to be done
and Harper was right in not pursuing this time wasting expensive suggestion
supported by both the NDP and Liberals. Chief Ronald Morin of the Enoch band
west of Edmonton is paid $750,000.00 per year by the federal government (YOU).
He spends winters at his winter home in Las Vegas, 4 car garage & swimming pool.
Not all the people in his band live like kings. Every Chief of an Indian Band in Canada
makes more than our Prime Minister. Harper brought in the "Accountability Act" so
that these Chiefs would have to tell their band members and the rest of us where
the money was being spent. It is the taxpayers' money and we have the right to
know where all this money is going. One of Trudeau's first acts as Prime Minister
was to throw out the "Accountability Act" If you were paying attention at all and
did your research you would understand this tragedy, the real issues and what
needs to be done to address them.
Some statistics:


According to the RCMP: Out of 6,420 missing persons in Canada 1,455
are women, of those 164 are aboriginal.
88% of murders of aboriginal women have been solved by police
89% of murders of non-aboriginal women have been solved by police
Between 1980 and 2012 there were 20,313 murders in Canada.
6,551 of those victims were women and 1,017 of those were aboriginal women.

Here's where it gets even more interesting:


Almost 30% of the 1,017 aboriginal women were murdered by their husbands.
23% were murdered by another family member.
30% were murdered by an acquaintance.
So, only about 8% of aboriginal women were murdered by strangers.

More statistics:


44% of the family members and acquaintances who kill aboriginal women were drunk
74% of the murderers of aboriginal women are unemployed.

AND NOW THE MOST SHOCKING:


71% of the murderers of aboriginal women already had a criminal record.
53% had been convicted before of a violent crime;
62% had a history of violence with the specific murder victim herself..

To be clear, there are some Chiefs and aboriginal communities in this country
that are doing well, for various reasons, but much of it has to do with their leadership.
Chief Clarence Louie of the Osoyoos Indian Band is an excellent example of quality
leadership, but no one (especially the media & government) ever talk about him and
his people.
Here are the REAL issues:
1. Welfare. The billions of tax payer dollars that go to support aboriginal people,
not only in living expenses but free education, free medical, no taxation, etc. has
crippled them (as it has crippled many non-aboriginal Canadians for generations)..
I would venture to say many of them have not worked a day in their lives.
2. Corrupt leadership who have no idea how to lead, manage, inspire or teach
their people .... who take for themselves and their families and friends and are not
accountable to anyone (as evidenced most strongly by Chief Theresa Spence in
Attawapiskat.) and blame, blame, blame the Canadian Government.
3. Alcohol and drug abuse, gang violence .... all contributing factors in the crime
rate on reserves, lack of parenting, family violence and poverty.
4. A two-tiered justice system that gives aboriginal offenders lighter sentences,
or no sentences at all, allowing them back into their communities to continue to
abuse the same aboriginal women again and again .... often resulting in death
(as evidenced by the 83% who were murdered by their husbands, a family member
or an acquaintance). If you want a National enquiry .... it should be on this issue..
When you say "It is inconceivable that we, as a country, allowed this situation to
continue" .... and "We urgently need to acknowledge the systemic aspect of this
crisis instead of ignoring or dismissing it." What are your intended solutions?
A National enquiry is not going to fix these problems!
Giving the aboriginals more of hard earned Canadian taxpayer dollars is NOT
going to fix this problem! WHAT ARE YOUR REAL SOLUTIONS TO THE REAL ISSUES?
Let's get this straight.
This land does not belong to them and they never were a 'Nation'.
These people's ancestors did not just appear in North America, magically
out of thin air one day 40 or 50,000 years ago. They came in waves across the
land/ice bridge from Asia. What's more, these waves, in many cases, were
not related groups of people. They came from various places around North
Eastern Asia and were from different genetic strains. In other words, the
"natives of North America " are not a homogenous group of people and more
importantly..they are immigrants too. Like millions of immigrants today.
The idea that the "natives" were peaceful caretakers of the land or benevolent
tenants couldn't be further from the truth. The various tribes right across Canada
warred on each other constantly. They were violent. Want proof? Ask the Hurons ...
oh, that's right you can't. The Iroquois' wiped them out.
How about slavery that was rife among all the first nation tribes until the Europeans
came and freed the slaves and put an end to this "valued cultural tradition".
Is slavery peaceful and humane?
The idea that we "stole" this land from them is also ridiculous. A more
technologically advanced and numerous culture invaded and conquered.
This is exactly what has been happening since the dawn of humanity all
around the globe. To say we "stole" their lands is just plain wrong. That is
akin to saying the Saxons should return England to the Angles. Or maybe
we should launch a campaign to have the Roman descendants give Italy
back to the Etruscans. It is a nonsensical notion driven by the politically
correct bleeding hearts, some intellectually deficient politicians and pressure
on the Government from lobbying groups. Also by the Indian people. It will
continue to cost this country needless and wasted trillions until we get some
backbone and turn off the taps.
Are these people in trouble? Yes.
Do they need help? Yes.
Are they responsible enough to look after themselves and efficiently spend the
billions that tax payers give them? CERTAINLY NOT
The only way to fix this situation is to bring them into society as equals. Getting
jobs and paying taxes like the rest of us because in reality, they are no more
special than any of the other numerous cultures that now call Canada home.

[tinhorse]

That's 3.3 billion not trillion, unless 3 zeros were missed.. A lot of cash anyhow

[338win mag]

If there is any bloodshed it will be on the hands of the leadership of the of the FN in this province. There is no way any of these bands are acting uni-laterally and are taking direction and confidence from the top. The leadership will be at home snuggled in their beds while the shyte go's down out in the bush.

[Max Ranger]

You NAILED IT!

[sthdslayer]

As well as the law firms that are getting rich from this

[sthdslayer]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/wilton-littlechild-indigenous-rights-recognition-framework-1.4821266

[338win mag]

**** the united nations, therein lies the real head of the snake.

[Jelvis]

Thee United Nations the U.N again! United we stand dee vided we fall and crawl on our knees between the trees with tom dela weeez - Don't Bo Gart
Jellyess -- UN declares war! Pay back or Stay Back -- > Just Jokin guys and gals and the ones who don't quite know ? Hahahaah jist jokin around. ok
The best to all of you from me and Jocko! in 2018 hunting season.

[Linksman313]

Finally some un-adulterated non feeling facts!
Thanks Sparky 300WM!

[okas]

yes we are done for sure:grin: civil war time ha ha

[edgar11]

Re: FN issues Repost
the views you've all stated is shared by every hunter / fisherman i know. this is all going to blow up soon. i know if i hunted an area and the FN tried stopping me , someone would get hurt. i recommend if anyone has an altercation , to video it because the FN seem to be untouchable. we need someone with legal and political experience to head a group to voice our concerns and educate the non hunting/fishing public about the trillions of $$$ the canadian people dole out to the FN.

here is an article i cam across:



This Calgary Sun article tells some staggering truths and historical facts
If you were wondering why aboriginals always want an inquiry into anything
and everything they can dream up. Just think of free hotel stays, free food
and incidentals, not to mention the bar fridge that gets stocked up every day


in their rooms.
This Calgary Sun article tells some staggering truths and historical facts.
I hope you are open-minded enough to make an objective read.
I will add one interesting fact - since 1946 the Canadian Government has spent
$3,300,000,000.00 That is 3.3 TRILLION on Indian Affairs with NO RETURN
on the investment.

Should be reading material for ALL Canadians. This article is absolutely correct.
Some very interesting statistics for each individual to consider but anyone with
a background knows this to be true already! The fact is that the bleeding hearts
and vote mongering Politicians don't want the general public to know this,,,
so let's spread it around!!
Judging from an article in The Calgary Sunentitled "Enough is Enough", a National
Enquiry into missing and murdered aboriginal women is NOT what needs to be done
and Harper was right in not pursuing this time wasting expensive suggestion
supported by both the NDP and Liberals. Chief Ronald Morin of the Enoch band
west of Edmonton is paid $750,000.00 per year by the federal government (YOU).
He spends winters at his winter home in Las Vegas, 4 car garage & swimming pool.
Not all the people in his band live like kings. Every Chief of an Indian Band in Canada
makes more than our Prime Minister. Harper brought in the "Accountability Act" so
that these Chiefs would have to tell their band members and the rest of us where
the money was being spent. It is the taxpayers' money and we have the right to
know where all this money is going. One of Trudeau's first acts as Prime Minister
was to throw out the "Accountability Act" If you were paying attention at all and
did your research you would understand this tragedy, the real issues and what
needs to be done to address them.
Some statistics:







To be clear, there are some Chiefs and aboriginal communities in this country
that are doing well, for various reasons, but much of it has to do with their leadership.
Chief Clarence Louie of the Osoyoos Indian Band is an excellent example of quality
leadership, but no one (especially the media & government) ever talk about him and
his people.
Here are the REAL issues:
1. Welfare. The billions of tax payer dollars that go to support aboriginal people,
not only in living expenses but free education, free medical, no taxation, etc. has
crippled them (as it has crippled many non-aboriginal Canadians for generations)..
I would venture to say many of them have not worked a day in their lives.
2. Corrupt leadership who have no idea how to lead, manage, inspire or teach
their people .... who take for themselves and their families and friends and are not
accountable to anyone (as evidenced most strongly by Chief Theresa Spence in
Attawapiskat.) and blame, blame, blame the Canadian Government.
3. Alcohol and drug abuse, gang violence .... all contributing factors in the crime
rate on reserves, lack of parenting, family violence and poverty.
4. A two-tiered justice system that gives aboriginal offenders lighter sentences,
or no sentences at all, allowing them back into their communities to continue to
abuse the same aboriginal women again and again .... often resulting in death
(as evidenced by the 83% who were murdered by their husbands, a family member
or an acquaintance). If you want a National enquiry .... it should be on this issue..
When you say "It is inconceivable that we, as a country, allowed this situation to
continue" .... and "We urgently need to acknowledge the systemic aspect of this
crisis instead of ignoring or dismissing it." What are your intended solutions?
A National enquiry is not going to fix these problems!
Giving the aboriginals more of hard earned Canadian taxpayer dollars is NOT
going to fix this problem! WHAT ARE YOUR REAL SOLUTIONS TO THE REAL ISSUES?
Let's get this straight.
This land does not belong to them and they never were a 'Nation'.
These people's ancestors did not just appear in North America, magically
out of thin air one day 40 or 50,000 years ago. They came in waves across the
land/ice bridge from Asia. What's more, these waves, in many cases, were
not related groups of people. They came from various places around North
Eastern Asia and were from different genetic strains. In other words, the
"natives of North America " are not a homogenous group of people and more
importantly..they are immigrants too. Like millions of immigrants today.
The idea that the "natives" were peaceful caretakers of the land or benevolent
tenants couldn't be further from the truth. The various tribes right across Canada
warred on each other constantly. They were violent. Want proof? Ask the Hurons ...
oh, that's right you can't. The Iroquois' wiped them out.
How about slavery that was rife among all the first nation tribes until the Europeans
came and freed the slaves and put an end to this "valued cultural tradition".
Is slavery peaceful and humane?
The idea that we "stole" this land from them is also ridiculous. A more
technologically advanced and numerous culture invaded and conquered.
This is exactly what has been happening since the dawn of humanity all
around the globe. To say we "stole" their lands is just plain wrong. That is
akin to saying the Saxons should return England to the Angles. Or maybe
we should launch a campaign to have the Roman descendants give Italy
back to the Etruscans. It is a nonsensical notion driven by the politically
correct bleeding hearts, some intellectually deficient politicians and pressure
on the Government from lobbying groups. Also by the Indian people. It will
continue to cost this country needless and wasted trillions until we get some
backbone and turn off the taps.
Are these people in trouble? Yes.
Do they need help? Yes.
Are they responsible enough to look after themselves and efficiently spend the
billions that tax payers give them? CERTAINLY NOT
The only way to fix this situation is to bring them into society as equals. Getting
jobs and paying taxes like the rest of us because in reality, they are no more
special than any of the other numerous cultures that now call Canada home.


Sparky I challenge you in declaring that all of your statements above which I highlighted are FALLACIES! I could sit here and prove to you but that would not do any good. Why? Because it is in your nature to argue instead of look at the facts and come up with your own educated conclusion. So I challenge you to do your own research and find out for yourself. That way I am not telling you and it has come from your own enquiry. I am suspecting that you will not research it and just continue to complain about the subject though.
There is this TV program which is called 'First Contact' and is carried on APTN. It follows a couple of skeptable people such as your self who think they know all about Indigenous People in this Country. This may be a start to your research.
You say we are in trouble when in fact we are the exact opposite. Why? Because we have been allowed to practice our culture and spirituality once again and this is the basic premis of our way of life and how we live on the "Red Road'.
The problem is that some have not gotten past the problems surrounding Residential School/60's Scoop yet and haven't found their culture and spirituality yet. This has been changing drastically over the years and will to continue grow and prosper as they are educated and learn teachings from their Elders. The Elders say this will take 7 generations so this will not occur overnight.
I encourage all of you to research for yourselves and come up with your own educated opinion.

[caddisguy]

**** the united nations, therein lies the real head of the snake.

Yep nailed it.

[Riverbc]

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/sports-culture/recreation/fishing-hunting/hunting/important-notices

[elch jager]

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cree-leader-poundmaker-is-getting-an-apology-from-trudeau-but-what-really-happened-in-1885/amp

A bit of revisionist history taking place in Sask...

Apparently the killing raping burning and pillaging were overtures of peace...

Can someone unapologize on behalf of sane Canadians once Justin is banished or hung for treason?