5-12B shut down for motor vehicles

[Squamch]

Just got this email.

Dear Hunter,

You are receiving this email because you are a holder of a LEH authorization for bull moose in Zone B of 5-12.

This email is to inform you that a regulation has been enacted that prohibits the use of Motor Vehicle for the purpose of hunting, effective September 10 to November 15, within Zone B of 5-12, excluding the Chilanko Main Forest Service Road, Smokey Lake Forest Service Road, Dusty Lake Forest Service Road, Morrison Meadow (200) Forest Service Road, and Lehman Forest Service Road. Hunters may still use motor vehicles for the purpose of hunting on these mainlines, however, the operation of all motor vehicles for the purpose of hunting, to transport wildlife, to transport equipment, firearms and supplies which are intended for or in support of hunting or to transport hunters to and from the location of wildlife is prohibited on any other road within this LEH Zone. Please refer to the attached map for details of the Motor Vehicle for Hunting Prohibited Areas.


The Motor Vehicle for Hunting Prohibition is a result of deliberations between First Nations and the Province to address concerns related to decreasing moose populations over the past decade and increased vulnerability of moose to hunting due to extreme wildfires, especially the wildfires from the summer of 2017. The Province has made a commitment to reconciliation and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People, and this closure moves towards fulfillment of that commitment.

In addition to these actions, the province and First Nations will be working together to operate game checks and enforce cow moose hunting bans for those first nation bands that have signed communal Memorandum of Understandings restricting their own band members from harvesting cow moose, which is anticipated to significantly increase the rate of population growth. Actions are also being taken to reduce access and restore important moose habitat in alignment with wildfire recovery activities. Over the long term the province plans to work collaboratively to develop a long-term management plan for moose in the region with input from stakeholders.

This decision is for this year's hunting season and future year decisions will be informed by data collected through the enhanced enforcement, inventory and the management planning process.

In addition to the measures described above, the Province has also closed portions of Management Unit 5-03, 5-06 and Zone B of 5-04 to moose hunting, closed the October 1 to October 14 moose LEH seasons in Zone A of 5-13, Zone C of 5-13, and Management Unit 5-14, and implemented Motor Vehicle for Hunting Prohibitions in portions of Zone A of 5-12.

We apologize for any inconvenience these changes may have caused.

Regards,

Wildlife and Habitat Branch
Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations, and Rural Development

[Squamch]

And here's everything left open to the law abiding hunter.

https://s20.postimg.cc/fl88f5cwt/Screenshot_20180829-155628_Drive.jpg

[Squamch]

So...is it still worth taking a week off work, and driving up there?

[scoutlt1]

What the f**k does UNDRIP have to do with moose hunting in the Cariboo????

Absolute bullsh8t.

[Sirloin]

The Motor Vehicle for Hunting Prohibition is a result of deliberations between First Nations and the Province ...The Province has made a commitment to reconciliation and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People, and this closure moves towards fulfillment of that commitment.

[IslandWanderer]

Sickening bs.

[northernguy]

According to the WL Tribune the Closures and Restrictions do not apply to FN.

Either we are all working together for conservation or we aren't...This government, yet again, made it clear that they are not interested in working together for conservation.

They have also, again, made it clear that they have a profound lack of ability to stop using our wildlife as pawns for political gain.

I for one find the government's "divide and conquer" policy of wildlife management profoundly disheartening. Their motives are unhelpful and dishonest.

Our wildlife has been reduced to political pawns yet again...and that's just pathetic.

[scoutlt1]

Looks like Alphonse got his way....

https://www.wltribune.com/news/tsilhqotin-move-to-ban-non-native-moose-hunting/

[Squamch]

Looks like Alphonse got his way....

https://www.wltribune.com/news/tsilhqotin-move-to-ban-non-native-moose-hunting/

I had the impression that that wasn't their claimed area.

[srupp]

Hmmm just the start...freeking ridiculous. .
Srupp

[Mulehahn]

So can someone please show me where in any of the treaties, or UNDRIP, it ensures the use of motorized vehicles in the face of conservation concerns? Every case I have read says that conservation is the only thing that can limit First Nation hunting. The courts have ruled that they are allowed to hunt year around in all the closed areas, have no age or sex limitations but that conservation concerns so allow for rules to be put in place. Show me the case that says otherwise please!

[REMINGTON JIM]

QUOTE ! The Motor Vehicle for Hunting Prohibition is a result of deliberations between First Nations and the Province

The Indians and the NDP have Phucked us over again ! :mad: RJ

[scoutlt1]

So there is a "closure" for licensed hunters with an LEH..... and yet there are "no restrictions to First Nations Hunters".

There is a phrase that is becoming prevalent these days, and it seems very appropriate here.... "**** That Shit"

[Sirloin]

So there is a "closure" for licensed hunters with an LEH..... and yet there are "no restrictions to First Nations Hunters".

There is a phrase that is becoming prevalent these days, and it seems very appropriate here.... "**** That Shit"


I don't know why you guys are expecting any different here....... our government has no jurisdiction over natives with wildlife and they don't want to either.
We have people working within our government, ones close by with the ear of government, who refer to themselves as white settler guests on this unceded territory of _________
and refer to Canada as "turtle island"

This is all just going to get SO much worse unless we cut it off at the head, the universities which are teaching radical indigenous governance, unsettling Canada, decolonization, all based on a radical revolutionary marxist platform. And no PembyMess, its not just "critical thinking" they teach direct activism, civil disobedience, they give out activism awards, bring in radicals for speakers, they have GEOGRAPHY classes where going out and joining activist groups, protesting is 40% of their grade. We really need to stop funding a revolution against ourselves with our own tax dollars.

They see us "settlers" as nothing more that a collective group of oppressors and natives as oppressed. They view everything as a power game.
Every issue will fall under this lens with indoctrinated activist ideologues at the helm, we will never win a single issue no matter how practical or logical it is.

[northernguy]

^^^Much of what you say is true.

I think I'm going to "identify" as "one who is offended" by the term "Settler". That way, every time it's used I can take a page from the snowflake manual and scream "RACIST":-)

[scoutlt1]

I don't know why you guys are expecting any different here....... our government has no jurisdiction over natives with wildlife and they don't want to either.
We have people working within our government, ones close by with the ear of government, who refer to themselves as white settler guests on this unceded territory of _________
and refer to Canada as "turtle island"

This is all just going to get SO much worse unless we cut it off at the head, the universities which are teaching radical indigenous governance, unsettling Canada, decolonization, all based on a radical revolutionary marxist platform.

They see "settlers" as nothing more that a collective group of oppressor and natives as oppressed. They view everything as a power game.
Every issue will fall under this lens with indoctrinated activist ideologues at the helm, we will never win a single issue no matter how practical or logical it is.

I agree, and sadly I'm not expecting anything different anymore really....

I guess I am/was just hoping for better, but I now know that's not going to happen.

[Asco]

This is another example of Canada’s move towards apartheid

[ryanb]

It's time every person realized that hunters and fishermen are low hanging fruit in the theater of politics. Until Joe Left Wing voter starts not being to buy their daily Starbucks and fuel up their outdoorsy Subaru, don't expect to hold any political traction... with whatever political party is in power.

Canada has a moral superiority complex, but we really are just as base as anywhere else.

[338win mag]

So can someone please show me where in any of the treaties, or UNDRIP, it ensures the use of motorized vehicles in the face of conservation concerns? Every case I have read says that conservation is the only thing that can limit First Nation hunting. The courts have ruled that they are allowed to hunt year around in all the closed areas, have no age or sex limitations but that conservation concerns so allow for rules to be put in place. Show me the case that says otherwise please!
This^^^^^
I haven't a clue as to how section 35 rights are being infringed if FN had to abide by the same prohibition.
Also I would challenge anyone to explain why.

[LYKTOHUNT]

These actions have nothing to do with conservation, its all about power and revenge,Sirloin is absolutely correct, I really fear for what kind of country this is becoming for our kids.I really do not know how to fight this or who is in our corner.If we oppose it we are deemed racist yet our own government separates us with different standards and laws

[leadpillproductions]

Its getting to the point its a freaking joke to be a canadian res of BC

[338win mag]

It sure is happening fast, coordinated by all parties before the next elections, ramming their shit, the main culprits dont live in this country, f,n joke is right.

[reel lucky]

Going to call and see if I can get a refund on my moose tag and LEH fee at the Regional office in Nanaimo, I know its futile but maybe I can leave a nice message.

[robert05]

I reside between 5-6 and 5-12B on Hwy 20 and for over 20 years I have watched the local natives hunt with atv's,
vehicles and snowmobiles all year around. They will take cows, calfs and anything that walks in front of then, they feel it is their givin right, yet they blame white man for the moose decline.
When ever there is a death on the reserve more moose are taken.
The hunters that I know and run into all follow the letter of the law that is required by us, so I really do not see us
as the problem.
A fact that does not come up to often is that moose only showed up in this area around 1920 and natives do not
have a name for moose in their native language so we're is the heritage bs.
I have hunted for 58 years and have taught my son's to hunt as well but I do not see a good future for my grandkids.
I believe it is time to stand up to the natives in many areas but feel this government is full of city bleeding hearts.
Just my two bits.

[true north]

They took our LEH lottery fees knowing how many tags there were to be distributed. Then they distributed them. Keep in mind these are shared hunts, so just in September there are,what, 23 tags given out? That's 43 families that were misled by the NDP Minister and now stand little chance of feeding their families. They took this away based on ideology not science. I'm thinking class action lawsuit.

[338win mag]

I reside between 5-6 and 5-12B on Hwy 20 and for over 20 years I have watched the local natives hunt with atv's,
vehicles and snowmobiles all year around. They will take cows, calfs and anything that walks in front of then, they feel it is their givin right, yet they blame white man for the moose decline.
When ever there is a death on the reserve more moose are taken.
The hunters that I know and run into all follow the letter of the law that is required by us, so I really do not see us
as the problem.
A fact that does not come up to often is that moose only showed up in this area around 1920 and natives do not
have a name for moose in their native language so we're is the heritage bs.
I have hunted for 58 years and have taught my son's to hunt as well but I do not see a good future for my grandkids.
I believe it is time to stand up to the natives in many areas but feel this government is full of city bleeding hearts.
Just my two bits.
You are not alone.

[REMINGTON JIM]

I reside between 5-6 and 5-12B on Hwy 20 and for over 20 years I have watched the local natives hunt with atv's,
vehicles and snowmobiles all year around. They will take cows, calfs and anything that walks in front of then, they feel it is their givin right, yet they blame white man for the moose decline.
When ever there is a death on the reserve more moose are taken.
The hunters that I know and run into all follow the letter of the law that is required by us, so I really do not see us
as the problem.
A fact that does not come up to often is that moose only showed up in this area around 1920 and natives do not
have a name for moose in their native language so we're is the heritage bs.
I have hunted for 58 years and have taught my son's to hunt as well but I do not see a good future for my grandkids.
I believe it is time to stand up to the natives in many areas but feel this government is full of city bleeding hearts.
Just my two bits.

No ! No ! :shock: you must be mistaken ! Indians are ALL Stewarts of the Land ! :twisted: many a few Bad apples but i think most are all GOOD ! :rolleyes: Yea Right EH ! RJ

[srupp]

Hmmm even BIGGER kick in the nuts..indians will be checking and ENFORCING the road closures..while they dont need to abide by the closures. .bullcat..
I will stop for a c/O but not some Mr dress up native..going to be a rodeo.
Steven

[Sirloin]

Hmmm even BIGGER kick in the nuts..indians will be checking and ENFORCING the road closures..while they dont need to abide by the closures. .bullcat..
I will stop for a c/O but not some Mr dress up native..going to be a rodeo.
Steven

https://i.imgur.com/dta7OuZ.png

^^^ As i said, this whole scheme was a trial run hand in hand with our government, with training wheels on. Get ready.

[northernguy]

I reside between 5-6 and 5-12B on Hwy 20 and for over 20 years I have watched the local natives hunt with atv's,
vehicles and snowmobiles all year around. They will take cows, calfs and anything that walks in front of then, they feel it is their givin right, yet they blame white man for the moose decline.
When ever there is a death on the reserve more moose are taken.
The hunters that I know and run into all follow the letter of the law that is required by us, so I really do not see us
as the problem.
A fact that does not come up to often is that moose only showed up in this area around 1920 and natives do not
have a name for moose in their native language so we're is the heritage bs.
I have hunted for 58 years and have taught my son's to hunt as well but I do not see a good future for my grandkids.
I believe it is time to stand up to the natives in many areas but feel this government is full of city bleeding hearts.
Just my two bits.

I live off hwy 20 as well. I used to seen moose hides and bones in the local landfill every time I went there...any day of the year, day in and day out. I have not seen that for a few years but I suspect it has to do with fewer moose around more than anything.

[northernguy]

Hmmm even BIGGER kick in the nuts..indians will be checking and ENFORCING the road closures..while they dont need to abide by the closures. .bullcat..
I will stop for a c/O but not some Mr dress up native..going to be a rodeo.
Steven

"Enforcing". Under what legal authority? I don't see them named in the Wildlife Act as peace officers. I could be missing something though. Sounds like vigilantism to me.

"Vigilantism, along with graft and corruption, are primary indicators of a failed state". Author Unknown.

[true north]

Hunting opportunities taken away "in the spirit of reconciliation" and the further ratcheting down on firearms ownership just reeks of disguised social engineering.

[Scotty76]

This current NDP government needs to get booted ASAP. Not that any government in power will not somehow cater to First Nations in some way or another, but I truly believe the B.C. liberals are the right ones for the job. I urge other people to write letters, not emails, to current liberals MLAs and to Andrew Wilkinson, letting them know your concerns, and asking for them to support resident hunters. Let them know what is happening and how important our crown land is and what will happen IF these First Nations tribes get their way. No more access. There is little to nothing we can do with our current government, though I do write letters to them with nothing in response. Liberal MLAs have phoned me back, written me back, and support what I believe in. The more support we show to the future provincial government the better. And yes, there is no way the NDP wins again. I f**kin hope...

[Jelvis]

Failed state? These vehicles look like patrolling and watching and listening, (Secwepemc -- Shuswap -) same -- togedder!
-- sounds like we have members on HBC that are university students and Professors, studying for a thesis or a original conclusion.
- very quick in thought and carrying on.
Jel -- It's difficult for some to see but we all work thru it to gedder --

[REMINGTON JIM]

Jelvis Really Together ? Hows that gonna work out ? RJ

[338win mag]

I dont normally go looking for trouble but, I dont think I'm going to allow anyone to jack me up and I wont be answering any questions unless they are an authentic peace officer.

[Jelvis]

You wanna find out RJ? You get thru the Riock first Hahahaha no nooooooo dis issz z dah eh you bin wantin so noo
Jel - The Rock got into it -- Eh roofus dis iz dah nor river and ah you challenging my boy d my best buddy, jelly smelly belly?? You seem to ah be like ah u live in lil Fort?

[Gateholio]

What this sort of thing will create is an overall erosion of respect for our game laws.

Many hunters will ignore these sort of regulations because they see it as a political move, not a conservation concern. And if you are going to break one rule, maybe you breaking another rule might be rationalized as well. After all, when natives are killing calves and cows, how picky do you really need to be about point restrictions or MU boundaries or similar ?

Its a real slippery slope to push out hunters that care about wildlife

[338win mag]

What this sort of thing will create is an overall erosion of respect for our game laws.

Many hunters will ignore these sort of regulations because they see it as a political move, not a conservation concern. And if you are going to break one rule, maybe you breaking another rule might be rationalized as well. After all, when natives are killing calves and cows, how picky do you really need to be about point restrictions or MU boundaries or similar ?

Its a real slippery slope to push out hunters that care about wildlife
Well ya,,, I think websters will be scrambling for a new definition for "vigilantism" as its not been defined.

[silvertipp]

Once they give all game control to the keepers of the land and the numbers keep diminishing Who are they going to blame then

[Jelvis]

Only trouble as I see it that concerns me when dealing with any game laws or trespassing or whad ever?
1. Online and on phones etc people say lots of things on here for instance, showing they'll make a final stand no one is stopping me under whose and what on and on.

2. In reality when face to face, totally different, the person on line by themselves or with only one buddy out on a fsr stopped for a minute by someone in a official pick up, won't talk like that.

The best way for a hunter to show how they feel, about all this back road stuff, and talks defiant and can't wait for a confrontation and is angry already

-- Drive out in hunting season into the Secwepemc territotry, anywhere that is a problem to you, and when you see or talk to the patrol team talk to them like here.

See what will actually happen and be the one being used to set that court case up! Cops callled etc

Jel -- people went to court to stop Trans Mtn -- used themselves to be charged and taken to court -- now thee others can see what happens, don't need too.

It's thee only way because each and every body's own personal opinions can't always find happy hunting grounds!

[Sako81]

So there is a "closure" for licensed hunters with an LEH..... and yet there are "no restrictions to First Nations Hunters".

There is a phrase that is becoming prevalent these days, and it seems very appropriate here.... "**** That Shit"


Extremely frustrating to see political decisions and policies like this. It makes no sense to restrict the rights of law abiding hunters that participate under an already regulated system, when there is no recognition of the impact that FN hunting has on conservation in this province. Blows my mind that government restricts a handful of hunters when many more moose are slaughtered by FN including cows and calves even in the off season. I'm no biologist but i'm pretty sure the impact of this is much more severe on the long term management of moose or any game in this province. Restricting LEH draws. Shortening the regular moose hunting season. Whats next?

Its sounding a lot like the "Gun control" decisions being made by our governments these days. There is little to no focus on the illegal guns being smuggled across our borders, yet the government would like to impose further restrictions or bans on law abiding gun owners. Starting to sound a lot like the long gun registry and the lessons that today's governments didn't learn from that. It failed because it wasn't effective at what it was intended to do. And yet the government continues to use the same emotion based, politically driven decisions. Its disgusting how uninformed government decisions are these days. Its all about politics with no logic or consultation in the decision process. This is what scares me the most and should scare each and everyone of us!!! Whats next? This is something we should all ask ourselves and take action and speak up to make sure that our voice is heard. Otherwise there wont be much of any hunting in this province and gun ownership will be a thing of the past.

[Sirloin]

Federal court quashes Trans Mountain pipeline expansion
https://globalnews.ca/news/4418485/trans-mountain-pipeline-quashed-federal-court/

In a unanimous decision by a panel of three judges, the court says the National Energy Board’s review of the project was so flawed that the federal government could not rely on it as a basis for its decision to approve the expansion.


The court also concludes that the federal government failed in its duty to engage in meaningful consultations with First Nations before giving the green light to the project.

[guest]

With ZERO accountability of most FNs ........ Just how are OUR wildlife populations to be managed properly.
PATHETIC ! Is the only word to discribe the lack of MANAGEMENT AND ACCOUNTABILITY by this government.
Same old same old.
And ya wonder why theirs Racism. Duh !
one law for ALL. ACCOUNTABILITY BY ALL ...... Until then....... Continue to manage to ZERO

[Dash]

This beyond absolute horsesh*t. Such a slap in the face. And allowing them to help enforce it and stop people? Ya, good luck with that.

[Bugle M In]

This is the result of "George Heyman" being elected folks.
He is bad news.

[338win mag]

Only trouble as I see it that concerns me when dealing with any game laws or trespassing or whad ever?
1. Online and on phones etc people say lots of things on here for instance, showing they'll make a final stand no one is stopping me under whose and what on and on.

2. In reality when face to face, totally different, the person on line by themselves or with only one buddy out on a fsr stopped for a minute by someone in a official pick up, won't talk like that.

The best way for a hunter to show how they feel, about all this back road stuff, and talks defiant and can't wait for a confrontation and is angry already

-- Drive out in hunting season into the Secwepemc territotry, anywhere that is a problem to you, and when you see or talk to the patrol team talk to them like here.

See what will actually happen and be the one being used to set that court case up! Cops callled etc

Jel -- people went to court to stop Trans Mtn -- used themselves to be charged and taken to court -- now thee others can see what happens, don't need too.

It's thee only way because each and every body's own personal opinions can't always find happy hunting grounds!
I see you can write seriously when you want, because its no joke and tempers could flair if emotions get it the way, thats why acting out of emotion is a bad idea in any life situation.

[northernguy]

My letter to the Minister:

Sir,



I’m writing today to express my concerns about your government’s continued practice of using wildlife management as a tool for reconciliation with First Nations and fulfillment of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People.



While reconciliation is important and necessary, the practice of using wildlife management as a tool to achieve reconciliation is not appropriate. This practice does not permit wildlife management decisions to be made with input from all stakeholders, it allows for other agendas to have a potentially negative effect on management outcomes, and it fosters divisiveness between various community members and stakeholders.



In short, the practice is harming effective wildlife management and causing divisiveness.



The statement made by your government regarding hunting closures in Region 5 make it clear that wildlife management is a second priority behind reconciliation with First Nations. Your government’s statement on the closure and restrictions includes the following:



The Motor Vehicle for Hunting Prohibition is a result of deliberations between First Nations and the Province to address concerns related to decreasing moose populations over the past decade and increased vulnerability of moose to hunting due to extreme wildfires, especially the wildfires from the summer of 2017. The Province has made a commitment to reconciliation and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People, and this closure moves towards fulfillment of that commitment.



Provisions in the Wildlife Act empower the Government to restrict First Nations hunting and fishing activities should it become necessary for conservation reasons. If restrictions are put in place for conservation reasons, the government should use the power afforded them by the Wildlife Act and invoke the restrictions for all hunting and fishing.



I remind you that your government has a legal duty of care to wildlife management. No such legal duty exists for your government to implement recommendations of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission nor the mandate of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People. As is currently stands, it would be reasonable to suggest that your government is failing in its legal duty of care toward wildlife management in pursuit of political goals that are not required by law.



I’m asking your government to abandon the use of wildlife management as a tool of reconciliation and focus on your legal duty of care as it pertains to wildlife management. I’m also requesting that should restrictions to hunting and fishing be necessary for conservation purposes, that your government use the power afforded by the Wildlife Act and apply the restrictions to everyone.



Kind Regards,

[338win mag]

Very good northernguy

[LYKTOHUNT]

Excellent northernguy

[scoutlt1]

Well said northernguy and thank you.

[REMINGTON JIM]

"Enforcing". Under what legal authority? I don't see them named in the Wildlife Act as peace officers. I could be missing something though. Sounds like vigilantism to me.

"Vigilantism, along with graft and corruption, are primary indicators of a failed state". Author Unknown.

they have NO LEGAL enforcement authority ! just as they didn't have any for mushroom pickers ! RJ

[REMINGTON JIM]

With ZERO accountability of most FNs ........ Just how are OUR wildlife populations to be managed properly.
PATHETIC ! Is the only word to discribe the lack of MANAGEMENT AND ACCOUNTABILITY by this government.
Same old same old.
And ya wonder why theirs Racism. Duh !
one law for ALL. ACCOUNTABILITY BY ALL ...... Until then....... Continue to manage to ZERO

EXACTLEY ! :cry: RJ

[REMINGTON JIM]

Great Letter Northern Guy ! RJ

[Bugle M In]

I see you can write seriously when you want, because its no joke and tempers could flair if emotions get it the way, thats why acting out of emotion is a bad idea in any life situation.

Using the above for Jelly,
What happened on the Fraser Rvr the other day is sad, but, it's only the tip of the iceberg.
With whats happening, it's only going to get worse.
Why do I say that?
I had a bunch of separate calls from separate individuals, all getting very frustrated, and worse, more pissed off.
Yup, if it keeps up this way, with our current politicians lending "only their ear" to one group (FN), as Heyman is doing,
you can count on "clashing getting worse".
That's just a fact, no matter how you want to spin it.
Get ready.

[Scotty76]

Good letter northernguy... I sent one as well, not as detailed as yours, and I kept it very civil as well. I wish everyone would Do the same.

Scary times ahead, hope my children will be able to enjoy what we have today.

[northernguy]

Thanks for the kind words about the letter fellas. Feel free to copy any of it for your own letters if you are so inclined.

Scotty76...I'm with ya on "keeping it civil". I have always had good results by keeping my cool...as tough as it may be at times:wink:.

I'd sure like to see wildlife put ahead of identity politics for once. This government driven division is most unhelpful...

[Bugle M In]

Thanks for the kind words about the letter fellas. Feel free to copy any of it for your own letters if you are so inclined.

Scotty76...I'm with ya on "keeping it civil". I have always had good results by keeping my cool...as tough as it may be at times:wink:.

I'd sure like to see wildlife put ahead of identity politics for once. This government driven division is most unhelpful...

Your right.
My intent is not to be a "loose canon radical" (although I sound like that in my last post).
Unfortunately, politics does always get in the way of the "right decision".
History has proven that.
I can tell you this, Heyman will "not listen to any letter/conversation" that is not on his "ideology".
It wasn't Horgan that came up with the GBear Closure.
Horgan needed an "out" for his change of talk in rgards to Site C.
IT was Heyman who had that on "his list" of to do when he got in, and I know that for a fact!
Besides, it's Carol James who is running the NDP on all other matters for the NDP.
Horgan is just a puppet.
And Heyman is the one is on a drive to "keep us in the dark, out of the circle of discussion, and to remove us from the equation in the future".
He's poison, and enough said.

[northernguy]

^^ A quick look at Heyman's CV certainly seems to back your assertion:shock: !

After reading Heymen's CV, the issue may be more insidious than I thought.

Perhaps my premise about the NDP using wildlife management to facilitate "reconciliation" is incorrect.

Instead of using wildlife management to facilitate "reconciliation"; perhaps the NDP is using "reconciliation" to facilitate wildlife management...with an eye to managing wildlife by ending hunting.

A crafty and sinister manoeuvre to be sure!

[Bugle M In]

^^ A quick look at Heyman's CV certainly seems to back your assertion:shock: !

After reading Heymen's CV, the issue may be more insidious than I thought.

Perhaps my premise about the NDP using wildlife management to facilitate "reconciliation" is incorrect.

Instead of using wildlife management to facilitate "reconciliation"; perhaps the NDP is using "reconciliation" to facilitate wildlife management...with an eye to managing wildlife by ending hunting.

A crafty and sinister manoeuvre to be sure!

Unfortunately, he is my local mla for the ndp.
I had the opportunity/misfortune to speak to him twice, at my door, during his campaigning, and I took a lot of his time on both of those occasions.
The GBear, and lack of FN reporting were only 2 of many concerns I wanted to discuss with him.
(I was fine with GBear and having to take the meat out, but still feel that they need to be managed thru hunting as well etc)
Habitat was another.
Anyways, it was very apparent that he did "not" want to discuss or worse, not even give any "thought/consideration" to what I wanted to present to him.
And, on top of that, he assured me that although he "does not hunt" (big problem right there folks!), that he had many friends
from where he came from up north that did, and "valued" their rights to hunt.
Well, I guess he may "not be lying on that point".
Like a snake in the grass, he used words to give a description of his values, but left out "interpretation".
I suspect now, "his friends who hunt" were in fact FN, not non FN.
And, when bringing up FN issues with him, he had a "big zero" to that conversation.
He then just wanted to "walk away" from any or all of that type of discussion.
Doesn't that seem to be the case even now....hmmmm.
Heyman is Our biggest problem in BC for hunting in the future.
Wait til GO's see Goat hunting become banned.
For many, that will put them "out of business", and their territories "useless to sell" EXCEPT (and read into this well folks!!),
the territories will then be sold to the "only buyers in town".....guess who....
The Anti's like RainCoast etc!!!!
Think long and hard folks on that.

[silvertipp]

Only trouble as I see it that concerns me when dealing with any game laws or trespassing or whad ever?
1. Online and on phones etc people say lots of things on here for instance, showing they'll make a final stand no one is stopping me under whose and what on and on.

2. In reality when face to face, totally different, the person on line by themselves or with only one buddy out on a fsr stopped for a minute by someone in a official pick up, won't talk like that.

The best way for a hunter to show how they feel, about all this back road stuff, and talks defiant and can't wait for a confrontation and is angry already

-- Drive out in hunting season into the Secwepemc territotry, anywhere that is a problem to you, and when you see or talk to the patrol team talk to them like here.

See what will actually happen and be the one being used to set that court case up! Cops callled etc

Jel -- people went to court to stop Trans Mtn -- used themselves to be charged and taken to court -- now thee others can see what happens, don't need too.

It's thee only way because each and every body's own personal opinions can't always find happy hunting grounds!


We we have already seen what happens
eligsl road block in the Klappan
one man by himself
natives could handle with all there friends
so they called the RCMP
he beat it in court
by himself more of this will happen before this is over

[Scotty76]

George Heyman is poison. This is a good example when an “environmental activists” gets his foot in the door to make decisions. This government must be removed.

[Squamch]

So....think it's still worth going up there? Two.of our group can hike. Two can hike but aren't that into the idea, and my dad has two bad knees, a bad back, and asbestosis.
Or...do we go up to tumbler ridge?

[limit time]

Lots of people on this site wanted this kinda stuff. Now the guides with horses and all native will have free run of the land... sorry seniors, no hunt for your old azz.

[bosch]

Well said northernguy,
I am one of the affected LEH tag holders for 5-12B and am extremely PO'd that the government can change the laws 2 weeks before the season opens. My gal and I have been putting in for LEH's for many years and we finally get one in this area which was a total shot in the dark. We have been planning since the day we found out she was successful and here it is 2 weeks away, time off booked, money budgeted and plans made and BAM!!! this S#$T!!!
My letter to the Minister:

Sir,



I’m writing today to express my concerns about your government’s continued practice of using wildlife management as a tool for reconciliation with First Nations and fulfillment of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People.



While reconciliation is important and necessary, the practice of using wildlife management as a tool to achieve reconciliation is not appropriate. This practice does not permit wildlife management decisions to be made with input from all stakeholders, it allows for other agendas to have a potentially negative effect on management outcomes, and it fosters divisiveness between various community members and stakeholders.



In short, the practice is harming effective wildlife management and causing divisiveness.



The statement made by your government regarding hunting closures in Region 5 make it clear that wildlife management is a second priority behind reconciliation with First Nations. Your government’s statement on the closure and restrictions includes the following:



The Motor Vehicle for Hunting Prohibition is a result of deliberations between First Nations and the Province to address concerns related to decreasing moose populations over the past decade and increased vulnerability of moose to hunting due to extreme wildfires, especially the wildfires from the summer of 2017. The Province has made a commitment to reconciliation and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People, and this closure moves towards fulfillment of that commitment.



Provisions in the Wildlife Act empower the Government to restrict First Nations hunting and fishing activities should it become necessary for conservation reasons. If restrictions are put in place for conservation reasons, the government should use the power afforded them by the Wildlife Act and invoke the restrictions for all hunting and fishing.



I remind you that your government has a legal duty of care to wildlife management. No such legal duty exists for your government to implement recommendations of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission nor the mandate of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People. As is currently stands, it would be reasonable to suggest that your government is failing in its legal duty of care toward wildlife management in pursuit of political goals that are not required by law.



I’m asking your government to abandon the use of wildlife management as a tool of reconciliation and focus on your legal duty of care as it pertains to wildlife management. I’m also requesting that should restrictions to hunting and fishing be necessary for conservation purposes, that your government use the power afforded by the Wildlife Act and apply the restrictions to everyone.



Kind Regards,

[bosch]

So....think it's still worth going up there? Two.of our group can hike. Two can hike but aren't that into the idea, and my dad has two bad knees, a bad back, and asbestosis.
Or...do we go up to tumbler ridge?
We are in the same boat, I don't mind the hiking but it's a whole different situation when you have to pack a moose out 5k off a spur road. We are bringing a wheelbarrow.

[Jelvis]

A wheelbarrow? Wow good thought hunter, eh, bring a wheel barrow along, a lighter one -- bosch no trosh :cool: -- > :!:
Jelly Wheelbarrow - Moose quarters - neck and ribs out on a wheelie barrow -- do a wheeelie selfie -- Get a picture of you or your buddy with a wheelbarrow of moose

[bearvalley]

We are bringing a wheelbarrow.

Try boning it out, putting it in meatsacks and using a pack frame.
I can visualize trying to push a wheelbarrow full of moose meat through the blowdown.
Not my kind of fun.

[338win mag]

Try boning it out, putting it in meatsacks and using a pack frame.
I can visualize trying to push a wheelbarrow full of moose meat through the blowdown.
Not my kind of fun.
I dont have a quad and have been packing meat out in this manner for 40yrs, that would be why my knees causing me grief, but if your in reasonable shape its not to bad.

[northernguy]

I received a response from my MLA (Opposition) to the letter I sent. He was in agreement with my points and was supportive.

Still no response to my letter from the Minister...

In case you missed it, here's a copy of the letter sent to the Minister.

Sir,

I’m writing today to express my concerns about your government’s continued practice of using wildlife management as a tool for reconciliation with First Nations and fulfillment of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People.

While reconciliation is important and necessary, the practice of using wildlife management as a tool to achieve reconciliation is not appropriate. This practice does not permit wildlife management decisions to be made with input from all stakeholders, it allows for other agendas to have a potentially negative effect on management outcomes, and it fosters divisiveness between various community members and stakeholders.

In short, the practice is harming effective wildlife management and causing divisiveness in various BC communities.

The statement made by your government regarding hunting closures in Region 5 makes it clear that wildlife management is a second priority behind reconciliation with First Nations. Your government’s statement on the closure and restrictions includes the following:

The Motor Vehicle for Hunting Prohibition is a result of deliberations between First Nations and the Province to address concerns related to decreasing moose populations over the past decade and increased vulnerability of moose to hunting due to extreme wildfires, especially the wildfires from the summer of 2017. The Province has made a commitment to reconciliation and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People, and this closure moves towards fulfillment of that commitment.

Provisions in the Wildlife Act empower your government to restrict First Nations hunting and fishing activities should it become necessary for conservation reasons. If restrictions are put in place for conservations reasons, the government should use the power afforded them by the Wildlife Act and invoke the restrictions for all hunting and fishing.

I remind you that your government has a legal duty of care to wildlife management. No such legal duty exists for your government to implement the recommendations of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission nor the mandate of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People. As it currently stands, it would be reasonable to suggest that your government is pursuing political goals as a priority while failing in its legal duty of care toward wildlife management.

I’m asking your government to abandon the use of wildlife management as a tool of reconciliation and focus on your legal duty of care as it pertains to wildlife management. I’m also requesting that should restrictions to hunting and fishing be necessary for conservation purposes, that your government use the power afforded by the Wildlife Act and apply the restrictions to everyone.

Kind Regards,

[gcreek]

These actions have nothing to do with conservation, its all about power and revenge,Sirloin is absolutely correct, I really fear for what kind of country this is becoming for our kids.I really do not know how to fight this or who is in our corner.If we oppose it we are deemed racist yet our own government separates us with different standards and laws

I will disagree with you in part. 30 years ago there were no logging roads in existance in most of 5-12 B. No one hunted any farther than what is being allowed now. There are a couple gates going up, asked for by the band to keep ALL hunters out. The bloody moose need somewhere to hide don't you think? It's too bad the Province wouldn't immediately launch a major predator cull at the same time.

Contrary to what many think, there is still good hunting in short distances from the roads that are open. You just need to stretch your legs a bit.

For reference sake, Morrison Meadow and Lehman roads are not FSR. They are public, maintained by the Highway Dept.

These decisions were also not necessarily made by the Natives alone. The Anahim Lake Round Table consists of members from the Band, loggers, ranchers, guides, other tourism operators and a few locals who have an interest. This decision was brought forward through them in an attempt to help the local moose pop. Apparently, some aren't respecting this, such as the BC Hydro truck with 4 hunters who went past the closed point last Saturday with 4 guys in it. Must be nice to have the Government supply your hunting rig too! Powerline ends at 1 km and they were past 24 km...… Maybe they are planning to bring me power for free?

[Squamch]

In light of statements made by the local indians, concerning closing down the hunt, and enforcing it themselves, and the road closures, we've decided not to utilize our draw.

We're going way further north instead, for an open season.

If it was just me and a buddy, we would be heading up to anahim lake tomorrow after work, but, one member of our hunting party deserves, but refuses, a handicap placard. Bad knees, bad back, and asbestosis taking almost half his lung capacity, he needs road access. A km walk takes it out of him. It sucks. I don't want to bow to the intimidation tactics being employed, but between dad's lack of mobility, and the risk of conflict with self appointed enforcement, we don't feel it's worth the risk. If we were locals, and knew the land and the people, it would be different, but the last thing I want is to have trouble, and bring it to someone else's doorstep, or find myself with a court date that far from home.

It sucks. There are a couple people who have offered help and advice, and I owe both of you a beverage or help on a hunt down here if you ever happen to draw an island elk!