Another heli bike tenure application (pemberton)

[the hopper]

Please sign and comment on the application.
Comments close the 19th

https://www.change.org/p/forests-lands-and-natural-resources-preserve-the-tenquille-to-owl-lake-recreation-area?recruiter=887284388&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_abi&utm_term (https://www.change.org/p/forests-lands-and-natural-resources-preserve-the-tenquille-to-owl-lake-recreation-area?recruiter=887284388&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_abi&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial)




https://arfd.gov.bc.ca/ApplicationPosting/viewpost.jsp?PostID=55367


Sample comment.

I am an avid mountain biker, backcountry skier, kiteboarder, snowmobiler, and hunter.
Wild places in the sea to sky are already under extreme pressure from recreational users.
There is No place for this disruptive industry in the corridor and possibly the province. It is completely unnecessary with so many trails already in existence and gets way to many people into areas they don’t need to be in.


If they want to fly people in on planes somewhere that’s fine, like spruce and Lorna lake in the south chilcotin.
But helicopters offer way to much access for way to little effort and I strongly believe the province should be refusing heli bike tenure applications anywhere in BC.
I know Retallack is also applying for a huge one.
It’s straight up bad news for wildlife and wild places.

[Cabled]

Thank you for sharing! In my opinion this is the type of thing we (our government) need to be limiting for the sake of wildlife instead of continually reducing resident hunter opportunity and calling that wildlife management.

[elch jager]

.....helicopters offer way to much access for way to little effort...

and that is the nut of it right there.... some feel that if you didn't earn the experience with a grueling effort in, that you don't deserve to be there. Tell me Hopper, when you are 70 and can no longer peddle up, but would like to drop in for some easy spinning in your old stomping grounds... should we also deny you access?

Should we extend that to heli-fishing as well? I've dropped in to some back country lakes and been accosted verbally by hikers who were literally apoplectic - red faced and spitting mad at the ease of access that a $2M heli gives you... even when you land on the far side of the lake giving them a wide berth. Apparently 8 or 10 hours of climbing gives them some divine right that supersedes a lifetime of business success and the means to go absolutely anywhere you bloodywell please.

I'd even support a premium LEH helicopter hunt carefully managed and controlled with compulsory inspections and the same flight rules as fixed wing.

[Gateholio]

I don’t really care about the effort part. It’s everything else that comes with choppers and pumping lots of people into an environmentally sensitive area to engage in a destructive activity.

[Hublocker]

Isn't there anywhere you can go any more without some self entitled ********** barreling down the mountain at you on a bicycle?

[IronNoggin]

Done & Shared.

Cheers,
Nog

[the hopper]

Hey elch dude
ive also been bothered by human powered backcountry skiers when on a sled same principle as you describe fishing.

when Im 70 i May still be able to still get around ok but I could also be dead haha, Fack. It’s more about leaving a beautiful area intact for my kids and your kids so that they can fall in love with it just like we did. When did we all get so self centred

im not opposed to heli fishing where you’re in, shutdown and hanging for the day with a client or whatever. It’s more the excessive traffic potential and irresponsible guest potential.
plus if you’ve got such a successful business buy a mountain and shuttle people all day long lol I’m not gonna bug you.

but yes to kinda echo the holio it’s not the effort it’s everything else

when I hunt I tend to walk a lot locally, just because that’s how it is in region 2
when I travel I use other vehicles to legally access various parts of the province that I could walk to but I don’t because it would take weeks.
I would even support heli drops if people were to walk down haha but we all know there’s no market for that.
You wanna fly in eat lunch camp out I don’t care they do it all over right now anyways.
Shit, you can hire a heli and they’ll take you out with a bucket of balls so you can whack em off a beautiful spot right now. Again I don’t care. Small market small impact. I guess I can do that when I’m old.
so it’s directly linked to the amount of air and human traffic this will lead to.

[Pemby_mess]

and that is the nut of it right there.... some feel that if you didn't earn the experience with a grueling effort in, that you don't deserve to be there. Tell me Hopper, when you are 70 and can no longer peddle up, but would like to drop in for some easy spinning in your old stomping grounds... should we also deny you access?

Should we extend that to heli-fishing as well? I've dropped in to some back country lakes and been accosted verbally by hikers who were literally apoplectic - red faced and spitting mad at the ease of access that a $2M heli gives you... even when you land on the far side of the lake giving them a wide berth. Apparently 8 or 10 hours of climbing gives them some divine right that supersedes a lifetime of business success and the means to go absolutely anywhere you bloodywell please.

I'd even support a premium LEH helicopter hunt carefully managed and controlled with compulsory inspections and the same flight rules as fixed wing.

The effort required is a valid concern for a number of reasons:

a) It serves as a filtering mechanism. Fewer people in an area means higher wilderness values. That includes higher wildlife values. Take away the filter in an area like the Sea to Sky, and you get a whole pipeline of dirty water, in from the reservoirs of social filth down below. That may sound trenchant, but its generally true.

b) Effort required, generally forges a respectful attitude. Not always, but If it takes several hours of fighting gravity to get into an area, you tend to appreciate it just a little bit more. Easy come, easy go, just like in business.

c) Inadequately managed mechanized access brings garbage and other unsightly intrusions. "Pack out what you pack in" seems utterly lost on mechanized operations wherever they operate.

So while you probably appreciate the relative ease of airborne transport into areas you might not otherwise get into, Your isolated experiences are not really what's being discussed here. We're talking about a company that ultimately seeks to initiate hourly flights in a Bell 212 into what would ordinarily be a pristine valley used by self-propelled wilderness recreationists for the sole purpose of leaving things like airports behind for a few hours-days.

The specific location is bad if only for both its historical use and its relative proximity to Pemberton. Heli tour operations can be nasty businesses for people who'd rather leave the machines behind. Their tenures are often massive, (therefore hard to avoid) because in theory, they can go way back into remote, unused areas; but the economic reality of flight time often forces them to use popular front-country locations. This initiates conflict with historical use.

[Pemby_mess]

Any concerns about this put forward to the ministry should include the mountain goats in the area. They tend to vacate when choppers come in, and I know that the bios looking at this file will also be concerned about that particular impact.

[the hopper]

Yes the goats are extremely bothered by helicopters as well even more so then the bears, that original post was put on a bunch of save the bear websites haha, I figured they may as well do something useful for once.

[Pemby_mess]

Yes the goats are extremely bothered by helicopters as well even more so then the bears, that original post was put on a bunch of save the bear websites haha, I figured they may as well do something useful for once.

Grizzly bears are a concern in that area too for sure though. The cascade population is struggling a bit, and they're known to mate in that valley as in others nearby. It's certainly not a location where they are ubiquitous, and they likely face a near term threat of extirpation in the range, if habitat integrity is not maintained.

[Avalanche123]

Unfortunately it seems to owe itself to a market driven "sense of entitlement to those who have the income and really don't care much else about the impact they may have....I have a mountain bike, I have $$$, I want to do this now situation. Is there a helicopter company that has a sense of value for those hard to get to locations? I am not sure if I know of any. That industry is high expense and high cost so "I'll fly you almost anywhere (they do avoid the odd spot I trust) to bring income in. (This is just my thought, I may be wrong...)

Get involved with your local "Land Resource Management Planning" (LRMP) and share your concerns.

[albravo2]

To each his own, but I have no problem with heli biking, or heli skiing or heli fishing, or using a heli to have sex in really cool places.

The guys that fly into the Chilcotin for biking aren't exactly ruining the Chilcotin for me and I personally don't see huge hordes of rich people on bikes rendering the Tenquille lake area unpleasant. But hey, I live in Squamish. People on bikes doing unprecedented things just sort of add to the cultural fabric around here.

[the hopper]

To each his own, but I have no problem with heli biking, or heli skiing or heli fishing, or using a heli to have sex in really cool places.

The guys that fly into the Chilcotin for biking aren't exactly ruining the Chilcotin for me and I personally don't see huge hordes of rich people on bikes rendering the Tenquille lake area unpleasant. But hey, I live in Squamish. People on bikes doing unprecedented things just sort of add to the cultural fabric around here.


Flying in on a fixed wing aircraft to a lake or lakes where climbing out multiple valleys over a couple days is required is very different then a 1.5 hour round trip lap in a Heli. It’s more like horse access in a sense fixed winging in and travelling through and around I have no problem with it.

And nobody is talking about sexy times in a heli, heli skiing, or heli fishing here... except that one other dude said he pissed off some hikers which is probably true, shit happens.

This is very much about short turnaround times from the highest points through critical habitat and unlimited terrain development anywhere... with high market potential. that’s the major difference between this and fixed wing.
first they build these trails. next year they expand the tenure, and pretty soon you’ve got a hundred different mountains with high traffic potential.

In Squamish you have no goats or grizzlys where they have been heli lapping in brittania since like 1993 so Im not sure it’s unprecedented... and I doubt goats and grizzlies will ever be back up there again on “goat ridge” oh the irony. What a Barren wasteland of recreational destruction that place has become lol.
i grew up there and watched over recreation that I was directly involved in turn that place into a theme park. moved north 6 years ago and now realize there’s things that are way more important then fun.
Wildlife and wild places are one of these and over recreating in some places just isn’t the way forward.

its also not really about Making it unpleasant lol.
I’m not going to be hanging out anywhere near that racket haha
There’s just no need for it in the first place especially in a bear and goat recovery area.

my quarrel is not with other hunters here though so I can’t respond to any more of these heli biking is great posts in desperation I’ve been reaching out to all manner eco terrorism groups like, pacific wild. which I hope can throw thousands of cat ladies into the fight. So I probably don’t need hunters help.
The same cat ladies who “saved” cuddly grizzlies from those mean trophy hunters are our best hope.
Man the worlds gone crazy lol. Cat ladies hahaha..... I never woulda thought i would need help from thousands of cat ladies in Missouri ever in my life. Yet here I am.

[Pemby_mess]

Flying in on a fixed wing aircraft to a lake or lakes where climbing out multiple valleys over a couple days is required is very different then a 1.5 hour round trip lap in a Heli. It’s more like horse access in a sense fixed winging in and travelling through and around I have no problem with it.

And nobody is talking about sexy times in a heli, heli skiing, or heli fishing here... except that one other dude said he pissed off some hikers which is probably true, shit happens.

This is very much about short turnaround times from the highest points through critical habitat and unlimited terrain development anywhere... with high market potential. that’s the major difference between this and fixed wing.
first they build these trails. next year they expand the tenure, and pretty soon you’ve got a hundred different mountains with high traffic potential.

In Squamish you have no goats or grizzlys where they have been heli lapping in brittania since like 1993 so Im not sure it’s unprecedented... and I doubt goats and grizzlies will ever be back up there again on “goat ridge” oh the irony. What a Barren wasteland of recreational destruction that place has become lol.
i grew up there and watched over recreation that I was directly involved in turn that place into a theme park. moved north 6 years ago and now realize there’s things that are way more important then fun.
Wildlife and wild places are one of these and over recreating in some places just isn’t the way forward.

its also not really about Making it unpleasant lol.
I’m not going to be hanging out anywhere near that racket haha
There’s just no need for it in the first place especially in a bear and goat recovery area.

my quarrel is not with other hunters here though so I can’t respond to any more of these heli biking is great posts in desperation I’ve been reaching out to all manner eco terrorism groups like, pacific wild. which I hope can throw thousands of cat ladies into the fight. So I probably don’t need hunters help.
The same cat ladies who “saved” cuddly grizzlies from those mean trophy hunters are our best hope.
Man the worlds gone crazy lol. Cat ladies hahaha..... I never woulda thought i would need help from thousands of cat ladies in Missouri ever in my life. Yet here I am.

lol ;-)

..........................................

[finngun]

the c...hopper.....broblem?? why. let them with big $ do what they do..fishing,,hunting..skiiing..heli sexing? or maybe not,.,.they bring mula for economics..:wink:

[Pemby_mess]

To each his own, but I have no problem with heli biking, or heli skiing or heli fishing, or using a heli to have sex in really cool places.

The guys that fly into the Chilcotin for biking aren't exactly ruining the Chilcotin for me and I personally don't see huge hordes of rich people on bikes rendering the Tenquille lake area unpleasant. But hey, I live in Squamish. People on bikes doing unprecedented things just sort of add to the cultural fabric around here.

To each his own - yeah for sure, but to each it's place.

I am not against the concept at all, and Pemberton needs more stuff like this for sure. But Tenquille doesn't need it. It has a hundred year history of use by locals. There's a new cabin that's been built there for people that hike in and is an easily accessible, high value, wilderness route. Refuge for wildlife too.

BC really needs a comprehensive land use plan. Hunters should probably be a part of that. Can't just open up all the near country to intensive commercial use. It's so unessecary.

[elch jager]

I'm just playing devils advocate... I do see your point with regular flights. My altitude is usually hard earned. It is a good friend with the chopper - being invited is always a special treat.

We have had grizzlies at the chopper about 30 minutes after we shut down. Once the turbine starts to spool up they bugger off pdq. We have also had elk grazing under the rotors...

Goats do clear out though...

[Hublocker]

Go here with a personal letter on your opinion:


https://arfd.gov.bc.ca/ApplicationPosting/comment.jsp?ret=%2FApplicationPosting%2F&id=55367

[albravo2]

In Squamish you have no goats or grizzlys where they have been heli lapping in brittania since like 1993 so Im not sure it’s unprecedented... and I doubt goats and grizzlies will ever be back up there again on “goat ridge” oh the irony. What a Barren wasteland of recreational destruction that place has become lol.

my quarrel is not with other hunters here though so I can’t respond to any more of these heli biking is great posts in desperation I’ve been reaching out to all manner eco terrorism groups like, pacific wild. which I hope can throw thousands of cat ladies into the fight. So I probably don’t need hunters help.
The same cat ladies who “saved” cuddly grizzlies from those mean trophy hunters are our best hope.
Man the worlds gone crazy lol. Cat ladies hahaha..... I never woulda thought i would need help from thousands of cat ladies in Missouri ever in my life. Yet here I am.

A) Goat ridge is far from a recreational wasteland. Buddy of mine is chief pilot for Black Tusk and says drops are rare. It is a lot harder to generate "intensive traffic" than most people think.
B) I don't admire your partnership with the cat ladies. As you point out, they are enemies of our way of life. If you think you can give them strength and power on your chosen topic but be protected from them when it comes to hunting, you are mistaken.

[Bustercluck]

I'm chartering a helicopter to bring us to a remote hiking trip on the westcoastof the island in a couple of weeks. I don't think any Canadian should be limited access to the backcountry. Remember all of the people that are petitioning against our way of life. Too much of this stuff is going on.

[roymil]

Seems like some people here could do with a mirror hanging on the wall

[the hopper]

I'm chartering a helicopter to bring us to a remote hiking trip on the westcoastof the island in a couple of weeks. I don't think any Canadian should be limited access to the backcountry. Remember all of the people that are petitioning against our way of life. Too much of this stuff is going on.

Albravo2
sorry the comment about recreational destruction wasn’t directed specifically at goat ridge but the squamish area in general and is tongue in cheek.
Squamish is very nice place but very busy these days.
you should make a list of all the animals you saw shuttling up there I’m very curious....
There’s a decent population of bt that winter in brittania and f creek, some black bears, but there are no species at risk or “iconic” animals hanging out.

I didn’t email any cat ladies don’t worry ain’t nobody got time for that.
it did cross my mind though and it made me have a good laugh.


It’s NOT NOT NOT about limiting your access anywhere.. you can fly up there and walk around all you like.
It’s about building the infrastructure to get 1000’s of people each year into places they don’t need to be in the first place.
Im all for public access, but I’m not into privitazed high volume bullshit. Unless they have some dedicated conservation fund like 20% of revenue that goes directly to local conservation groups to better manage wildlife in the area. Which they do not.

you wanna bang off 10 laps hit the bike park. You certainly don’t need to bang off 10 different peaks in pristine places in one day and bother a shit ton of animals with a crew of 20 buds.

[Redthies]

Im all for public access, but I’m not into privitazed high volume bullshit. Unless they have some dedicated conservation fund like 20% of revenue that goes directly to local conservation groups to better manage wildlife in the area. Which they do not.

you wanna bang off 10 laps hit the bike park.

After living in “Whisneyland”* from the late 80s up to 2014 I’ve seen a crapload of change in the corridor. I’ve accessed the backcountry by dirtbike, trials bike, atv, SxS, Jeep, Land Cruiser, floatplane and heli. I’ve also made a fair bit of coin building infrastructure for a tenured adventure company. I’ve also successfully hunted while at work on said companies land. That’s all well and good, but hopper said it best. High volume access to pristine areas for the sake of profit can be saved for the areas that are already fubared. Talk with my brother in law who is GM of a heli/cat skiing company. Maybe they can add trails to his tenure and save the undisturbed land for those willing to hike for it.

Nothing pisses me off more than being close to an animal and then hearing some ass approach at high speed on his quad or whatever and scare away everything around for miles. Yes, I COULD walk further back, but in one of my spots, there is virtually no vehicle traffic so it’s usually ok to hunt near the FSR. It’s a free (ish) country, but there is very little consideration given to other people who may be in an area by some other users.