DFO Poises To Close Huge Offshore Areas

[IronNoggin]

DFO is about to ram yet another series of closures for fishing through. Fin Fish Closures from Long Beach, South Bank, Big Bank, Rats Nose all the way to Swiftsure. This based upon both sketchy information, and in even larger areas, no information at all.

Time to tell DFO we won't sit idly by while they take the "don't confuse me with facts" approach and adopts "assumption based science" once again.

“B.C.’s tidal water recreational fishery, combined with the freshwater fishery, is the largest and most valuable in Canada, valued at $18 billion annually. DFO issues over 350,000 tidal licences per year collecting $7.3 million in fees and the fishery employs around 8,400 British Columbian’s (as of 2012).”

· Area SRKW Refuge Recreational Fin Fish Closures will cause significant socio-economic harm destroying jobs and economic spin off activities in small coastal communities like Ucluelet, Port Alberni, Bamfield, Port Renfrew, Sooke and Victoria.

· Killer whales are only very rarely present on LaPerouse Bank, and there is no documented evidence from passive acoustic monitoring to clearly demonstrate this is actually critical habitat. DFO science is making an assumption that because areas of LaPerouse Bank are important areas for commercial and recreational Chinook fishing that they area similarly important to killer whales.

· According to Passive Acoustic Monitoring (PAM), killer whales are only present on Swiftsure Bank 43% of monitored days between May to September – broad Area Refuge closures impact recreational fishing opportunity during significant periods where the whales are not present.

· There is no comparative analysis that demonstrates the effectiveness of Area Closure vs a mobile “bubble” strategy

· More effort is required to scientifically determine if indeed there is any less benefit to be achieved using a “bubble” strategy which is less impactful – striking a balance between protection and economic activity

External review of the critical habitat section of the draft Amended Recovery Strategy for the Northern and Southern Resident Killer Whales in Canada:

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/consultation/sara-lep/killerwhales-epaulards/index-eng.html

Deadline for feedback is July 11.

Nog

[pnbrock]

this is dumb everyone knows there is only coho left offshore ,whales won't eat them lol

[NChunter]

What would be the main reason for closing swiftsure bank? Noise or to try and reduce numbers of chinook caught? I fish at swiftsure once or twice a summer on a charter. It's a pretty big area and boats are spread out more than many popular inshore areas so seems that noise should be less of an issue than other areas. There is a pretty steady stream of shipping traffic through there and seems to be getting more every year, are they going to shut that down too if it is causing noise. Also what is a bubble strategy? For example would this mean moving out of an area as soon as orcas are sighted?

[IronNoggin]

This has absolutely ZERO to do with "conservation". Parks Canada has had this on their Agenda for years and now is in bed with DFO using improper science to push this forward. It is PURELY POLITICAL and will NOT result in any significant help to the whales in question. DFO's own biologists have pointed this out repeatedly. Their scientists are being purposely ignored by their Political Masters. PATHETIC!

There is no intent to limit shipping, simply a total finfish closure (No Fishing for all but one sector).

The Bubble strategy is to remain a minimum of 3-500 yards from any whales encountered. Something the whale watchers fought tooth & nail, and apparently they carry more sway with the politico's than fishing folks.

This is a completely draconian move by DFO to support Parks' vision of a large marine park that they control.

Nog

[NChunter]

Total finfish closure is BS. Anchoring up for halibut is more disruptive to whales than shipping traffic or whale watching how? Just had a thought about the current closure between otter point and sooke... couple of beaches out there that I have fished for sea run cutthroats guess thats off limits too now! Oh well at least it will save the whales!

[elknut]

I read a bit of the articles and found them very misleading..One ...Due to the slow reproductive rate of 2.2%..It could take more than one generation to recover..A generation as defined in the article is 25 years!!!!!...Also deliterious material being released could cause damage to their food...Victoria has been doing this through their effluent discharge forever...Seems east coast got shut down also to protect Right whales...Seems this Govt is hell bent on their idealist ways and damn the torpedoes...The undoing of these draconian measures will take some doing even with a change in Govt...If we are lucky to unseat Trudeau and his minions...Dennis...They also seem to be disregarding scientists and as Nog says its strictly political....

[Ourea]

Ironically my good friend that guides out of Port Renfrew has been hounding me to get down there as it is the best fishing he's experienced in 20 years there. Most boats are making quick work on full limits.

[IronNoggin]

Ironically my good friend that guides out of Port Renfrew has been hounding me to get down there as it is the best fishing he's experienced in 20 years there. Most boats are making quick work on full limits.

Hope your sciatic issue clears up and you can get down there to Enjoy Buddy!
Best be getting there swiftly if you can.
This bullshit goes through, Renfew (and Bamfield, Port, Ukee and Tofino) are headed towards Ghost Town status... :cry:

Nog

[steel_ram]

Total finfish closure is BS. Anchoring up for halibut is more disruptive to whales than shipping traffic or whale watching how? Just had a thought about the current closure between otter point and sooke... couple of beaches out there that I have fished for sea run cutthroats guess thats off limits too now! Oh well at least it will save the whales!

I hear ya. I mostly shore fish. I investigated an up island location with a fin fish closure, (to protect the salmon) and pretty much everyone I could get a hold of said SRC fishing was O.K. . . . .but no one was 100% on that. These closures shouldn't effect the lonely shore fisherman. Would it be so hard to write that in?

[IronNoggin]

... These closures shouldn't effect the lonely shore fisherman...

FYI: These closures effect EVERYONE.
Fin Fish Closure means just that.
There are no exemptions (unless you belong to a certain privileged sector).

July 11 Comment Deadline...

Nog

[Piperdown]

Ironically my good friend that guides out of Port Renfrew has been hounding me to get down there as it is the best fishing he's experienced in 20 years there. Most boats are making quick work on full limits.

Who is your friend, if he calls going to swiftsure and catching feeders to 8 lbs and 14 lb halibut the best fishing in his 20 years i will eat my shorts. I have fished and guided there for 30 years and it is in noway near close to being good.

[HarryToolips]

Trudeau continues to push his political agendas, that's very sad news.....sad that they're willing to hurt the economy of these small towns you pointed out Nog.....so now that Canada day is over, when we separating?? Why should we put up with being dictated by the east any longer....................

[steel_ram]

FYI: These closures effect EVERYONE.
Fin Fish Closure means just that.
There are no exemptions (unless you belong to a certain privileged sector).

July 11 Comment Deadline...

Nog

Yeah, I know, but it seems ultra-dumb to kill it for the shore guys, who basically catches next to nothing.

[IronNoggin]

Yeah, I know, but it seems ultra-dumb to kill it for the shore guys, who basically catches next to nothing.

Actually, the entire scenario is "ultra dumb" no matter how you want to look at it.
Unless you happen to be Parks Canada, who I can guarantee are salivating HARD at the prospect.
And maybe just a few of the beyond help DFO folks helping them realize their long held desires... :roll:

Pissed,
Nog

[Ourea]

Who is your friend, if he calls going to swiftsure and catching feeders to 8 lbs and 14 lb halibut the best fishing in his 20 years i will eat my shorts. I have fished and guided there for 30 years and it is in noway near close to being good.

How's the fishing now Piper!!!
You landed, what, 16 springs up to 22lbs the other day scratching the beach!!!
Hope it only gets better and bigger.

Be an absolute shame if this area gets shut down when there are lot's of springs around.
I agree with Nog, political closure nothing more.

[IronNoggin]

https://i.imgur.com/Wkt2NDi.jpg

From page 61 of the Killer Whale Recovery Strategy, designed in cooperation with DFO & Parks Canada:

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/consultation/sara-lep/killerwhales-epaulards/docs/2018-killer-whales-epaulards-eng.pdf

For this post I won't bother (yet) pointing out the many discrepancies in said Strategy...

Area proposed for this closure (does not reflect inside closures already in place, nor ones proposed for the areas north of Vancouver Island).

https://i.imgur.com/VJgqzpl.jpg

Starting to get the picture??

Wondering...
Nog

[Piperdown]

How's the fishing now Piper!!!
You landed, what, 16 springs up to 22lbs the other day scratching the beach!!!
Hope it only gets better and bigger.

Be an absolute shame if this area gets shut down when there are lot's of springs around.
I agree with Nog, political closure nothing more.

Lol had to take the day off arms and shoulders were too sore today :mrgreen:

[HarryToolips]

So is a petition feasible to combat this atrocious, purely political move??

[IronNoggin]

So is a petition feasible to combat this atrocious, purely political move??

It all starts with addressing the proposal itself in the area noted in the first link.

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/forms/sara-lep/killerwhales-epaulards/workbook-cahier-eng.aspx

Damn good idea to inform them how few (if any) killer whales you have seen out there in your thousands upon thousands of trips to these locations. ;-)

Comment Deadline July 11...

Cheers,
Nog

[Edward Teach]

Who is your friend, if he calls going to swiftsure and catching feeders to 8 lbs and 14 lb halibut the best fishing in his 20 years i will eat my shorts. I have fished and guided there for 30 years and it is in noway near close to being good.

As far as halibut is concerned, I've always found the chickens to be better eating than the big slabs anyway.

[HarryToolips]

It all starts with addressing the proposal itself in the area noted in the first link.

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/forms/sara-lep/killerwhales-epaulards/workbook-cahier-eng.aspx

Damn good idea to inform them how few (if any) killer whales you have seen out there in your thousands upon thousands of trips to these locations. ;-)

Comment Deadline July 11...

Cheers,
Nog
Ok sounds good...

[Edward Teach]

I spent a good deal of time out there shrimp and salmon fishing and we almost never saw orcas on La Perouse. Mostly they kept to Juan de Fuca strait.

[IronNoggin]

This closure would devastate the coastal communities of Port Renfrew, Bamfield, Port Alberni, Ucluelet and Tofino and every recreational and commercial fisherman who earns their livelihood or enjoys their recreational pastime in what is considered one of the greatest accessible salmon and halibut fishing grounds in North America.

http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/letters/fishery-closure-would-be-devastating-1.23358161

Yep...

[boblly1]

i am puzzled 3 weeks ago they gave the commercial fishery a 3 day opening.And yesterday announce a closure because they do not have their escapement. That seems to me to be ass backwards. I am sure no fisherman would mind them keeping the season closed. Until they have the pieces they require to sustain the species. Its for sure that we have wrong persons doing the management studies. But i am pretty sure they have made a few enemies with the decisions they have just made. ei, every sport fisherman and first nations fisherman that have purchased a boat and equipment to do their job or just for sport. As well as as others that sell the goods and boats, gasoline.That are required I am sure there is a better way handle this resource I am sorry for the rant but truly despise stupid

[IronNoggin]

...That are required I am sure there is a better way handle this resource I am sorry for the rant but truly despise stupid

You are FAR from alone in that mindset!! ;)

Deadline for comments is getting closer folks!

Cheers,
Nog

[IronNoggin]

This is what we are up against:


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Say Yes to Additional Critical Habitat!
DEADLINE: JULY 11th, 2018

Dear xxxx,


The endangered Southern Resident killer whale population is now down to just 75 individuals. Threats to their survival include:



A lack of abundant Chinook salmon
toxic contamination
vessel noise and disturbance

With your support, GSA and our allies have been working hard to hold the federal government accountable to their responsibility to protect this iconic species and we are finally starting to see them taking actions to address the threats that face this population. Our work is not done however -we need to keep pushing for more effective, enforceable and immediate measures if the Southern Residents are to have a fighting chance at survival.
Fisheries and Oceans Canada is conducting an external review of the critical habitat section of the Recovery Strategy for the Northern and Southern Resident killer whales (https://georgiastraitalliance.cmail20.com/t/d-l-bildjkl-sydlduhkl-j/). This review is open to public comment until July 11th and you can show your support (https://georgiastraitalliance.cmail20.com/t/d-l-bildjkl-sydlduhkl-t/) for designating additional areas as critical habitat for both the Northern and Southern Resident killer whales!

Proposed additional critical habitat off southwestern Vancouver Island includes the Canadian portions of Swiftsure Bank and other shallow banks including La Pérouse Bank, where studies show that these areas are frequently used by both Northern and Southern Resident orca populations in all months of the year. Maps of the areas can be found on pages 60 & 61 of the Amended Recovery Strategy for the Northern and Southern Resident Killer Whales in Canada (https://georgiastraitalliance.cmail20.com/t/d-l-bildjkl-sydlduhkl-i/). DFO has stated that this area is known to be among the most productive fishing areas for Chinook salmon on the west coast of North America. Chinook salmon comprise up to 90% of the Resident killer whale diet.

The number of endangered Southern Resident killer whales is at a 30-year low. The recent loss of Crewser (L-92) from the Southern Resident population speaks to the urgency of the situation the killer whales are in.Tell the government that you want to see more critical habitat protected for both Northern and Southern resident killer whales— and why — by filling out the “additional feedback” section of this online consultation form (https://georgiastraitalliance.cmail20.com/t/d-l-bildjkl-sydlduhkl-d/).
Read the full External review of the critical habitat section of the draft Amended Recovery Strategy for the Northern and Southern Resident Killer Whales in Canada: Discussion guide (https://georgiastraitalliance.cmail20.com/t/d-l-bildjkl-sydlduhkl-h/)




Show Your Support Now (https://georgiastraitalliance.cmail20.com/t/d-l-bildjkl-sydlduhkl-k/)



Making waves for change,

Rachael Merrett
Species Protection Coordinator



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Southern Resident orcas are facing extinction - please help GSA push for action from DFO before it's too late


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Georgia Strait Alliance
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.................................................. ..............

These folks are Organized, make unfounded claims in just the right way to pluck on their sheeple's heart-strings, and make it damn easy for them to sway to consultations to their side.

We REALLY could learn a thing or two here...

Comment Deadline is approaching fast now folks.
PLEASE ensure we have a chance at countering this nonsense!!

Thanks!
Nog

[Islander30]

Hi Matt, hows it going ? I filled out the DFO questionnaire ......just got my lot at salmon beach all set up again(havent been up for a few years)and now this news ! It just seems to never end anymore, makes me sick...between, grizzly bans, wolf infestations, apparent killer whale critical habitat areas popping up in areas where the're aren't even any killer whales....what next ! Used to be recreation, now it's just an ongoing struggle of disappointment...Im starting to lose hope :-(


.

[Ourea]

As long as decision making on wildlife and habitat is purely politically driven........nonsense will continue
As things in North America keep sliding to extreme left ideologies.....common sense and wisdom goes out the window.
Bowing to social idiocy is becoming the norm.
With that wildlife will only suffer.

Crazy times folks.

[IronNoggin]

Fisheries and Oceans Canada has already forbidden fishing from June 1 to Sept. 30 between Otter Point in Sooke and Port Renfrew, as well as areas in the southern Gulf Islands, to assist southern resident killer whales. Also, the overall catch of chinook has been reduced 25 to 35 per cent.

First, ask the folks in Sooke and Renfrew just how their closures were implemented. :icon_frow
EXACT same process as is being applied here.

Second, there is no way in hell those current closures will ever result in a "25 to 35 per cent" reduction in the recreational spring harvest.

Simply more smoke & mirrors from DFO...

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/island-towns-fearful-over-fishing-closures-1.23361351

Nog

[IronNoggin]

Hi Matt, hows it going ? I filled out the DFO questionnaire ......just got my lot at salmon beach all set up again(havent been up for a few years)and now this news ! It just seems to never end anymore, makes me sick...between, grizzly bans, wolf infestations, apparent killer whale critical habitat areas popping up in areas where the're aren't even any killer whales....what next ! Used to be recreation, now it's just an ongoing struggle of disappointment...Im starting to lose hope :-(

Going OK these days, managing to keep the keel even most days. Thanks for askin'...

I completely concur with your noted frustration.
We are in a WAR that many on our side don't even recognize.
Our enemies of course are counting on that, and the usual apathy that runs so strong among our side as well.
They on the other hand are energized, focused, and carrying the day in many instances.
We simply HAVE to wake up and start directly dealing with these matters, or the situation will most assuredly devolve into something much worse! :icon_frow

Don't lose hope Buddy!
We do what we can to the best of our abilities, and try to keep the hope for a saner world alive!

“Here is a chart illustrating a proposed fin fish closure by DFO. Please take a moment and respond on the link below with your feedback,” writes Hicks in his post (see below). “I have expressed my opinion that our Southern Vancouver Island Coastal Communities, recreational fishers and commercial fishers will be devastated. Never thought I would see this day!”

https://sooke.pocketnews.ca/director-hicks-calls-on-all-to-respond-to-a-fed-fishing-closure-call-for-feedback/

Cheers,
Nog

[Rupert Retired]

Having read all the above responses, I just have to weigh in. First, this is not a "political" move. Believe me, if the Conservatives were in power, the same closures would exist. It is in response to the realization, in the mid 2000s, that southern resident Killer Whales were starving to death when there was an abundance of salmon, for the simple reason that they only ate chinook! This realization shocked many biologists, as well as fish managers. So, the next question is, how do we provide additional chinook salmon for Orca food? Well, if you look at the problem holistically, there are not any good options, and in fact not many options at all. Chinook are being exploited to their maximum extent, and in fact, probably beyond that. The crucial test is whether two spawning chinook will produce two spawning chinook 4 or 5 or 6 years down the line. This has been a challenge for fish biologists, due to the multi-year spawning capabilities of chinook salmon, but suffice it to say, we have generally been over-harvesting prior to the more scientific approach taken in recent years (decades?). Anyway, to make a long story short, it is not how many Orcas you see on the Swiftsure Bank, it is how many chinook that these restrictions can save for Orca consumption in Juan de Fuca Strait and the Strait of Georgia (or Salish Sea?). Trust me on this next prediction: If the amount of chinook saved by not catching them on Swiftsure Bank or in any of the other areas in this new closure does nothing for the Orcas (it definitely should do something regarding the abundance of chinook off Victoria!) then, there will be additional chinook closures. I can easily see a complete chinook closure on the BC coast (I think that would be excessive) but hey, the Province closed Grizzly Bears for no scientific reason, and I can surely see the Feds closing chinook for this justifiably scientific reason. And, as a final kicker, it will not be a partisan pollical decision, it will be based on established science.

[IronNoggin]

... And, as a final kicker, it will not be a partisan pollical decision, it will be based on established science.

You are of course entitled to your opinion.
I however respectfully disagree.

Yes, we have too few chinook.
Yes, we must seek ways to increase their numbers.

However looking at the lower numbers of springs being the SOLE factor in the decline of the southern orcas is beyond questionable.
That is simply one piece of the puzzle.
Inbreeding is prevalent, and if continued, will further reduce their numbers.
Pollution in their food sources and environment is concentrated in their fatty tissues. Many would be seriously considered "toxic waste" should they roll up on your beach.
Mothers pass these toxins to their offspring through their milk. Many of those offspring die as a consequence.
Shipping provides some interference, however IMHO it is the whale watchers who interfere with these animals the most.
They are "loving them to death" and crowd them constantly / daily.
There are more of course, but you see where this is headed.

The government's own biologists told them what was required:
- Ramp up hatchery production to the max (short term) and increase net pen releases;
- Get on with major habitat mitigation & enhancement efforts yesterday;
- Knock back the overly populated pinnipeds proven to consume damn near 1/2 the annual production of springs & coho in the effected areas. (By the way, these pinnipeds consume 600 % of the combined commercial & recreational catch annually).

Those same biologists cautioned against area / fishing closures, specifically noting "they would provide very little in the way of significant positive results". DFO has chosen the "easy way out" in this case, choosing NOT to address what their own scientists are advising them, and proceeding with draconian closures in order to "appear" to be doing something, while in fact doing nothing.
Sad.

So, I'll choose to side with the Biologists. I trust their science, and I trust their gut instincts.
The government has lead us into many many messes by ignoring their advice.
Methinks this is simply another case of the same.

FYI: Although a case can be made for some of Swiftsure, the same is not true northwest of that area.
It is frequented by US origin chinook, that travel but rarely into the areas where they could present prey items to the southern orcas.

Note that these whales have fluctuated up and down between where they are now, and 10 - 15 more individuals ever since the days of aquarium capture ended. This has been going on for some time now.
There is a price to pay for being a "specialist".
The northern and transient pods have been increasing through the same time periods.

Also note Parks Canada involvement in this latest proposal.
That fits ever so nicely with their twice defeated agenda of creating marine park areas in the exact same areas.
Please do not try to convince me that is unintentional...

Nog

[Islander30]

Don't lose hope Buddy!
We do what we can to the best of our abilities, and try to keep the hope for a saner world alive!



Thanks Matt, If for no other reason than the desire to have my son experience the joys of hunting and fishing that I enjoyed my whole life, I won't give up hope. When he shot his first buck last fall, that was one of the greatest moments of my life, something I will never forget ! Just like I have never forgotten the first time my Dad handed me the rod and the reel was screaming with the fury of a huge Ucluelet spring on the line !!!

[Ourea]

IronNog.
Where are seal populations now vs 15 years ago?


What are the number one predators of chinook?
What is the management strategy to reduce chinook predators?

I can only roll my eyes when I look at this situation.

Bankrupt coastal communities that rely on sportfishing?
Continue to allow whale harassment and pursuit by eco tourism?

Not focus on funding to protect and enhance productivity of salmon spawning grounds.

Nuts.

[IronNoggin]

IronNog.
Where are seal populations now vs 15 years ago?

When the blanket protection was brought in, sea lions numbered around 10,000 and seals about the same.
Today, the sea lions alone number over 300,000. Seals are "suggested" by our dysfunctional DFO (a complete guess) at 105,000.


What are the number one predators of chinook?
What is the management strategy to reduce chinook predators?

Sea lions & seals consume 42 % of annual chinook production, and 47% of annual coho production in the gulf annually.
Their combined removal represents 600% of the combined catch of both commercial and recreational fisheries.

There are others, but these clearly are the number one predator at this juncture.

Management strategy with pinnipeds is Blanket Protection. :roll:


Nuts.

Or rather quite clearly INSANE.....

Not hard to see where Raincoast wants this to go...

Biologist Misty MacDuffee, with the Raincoast Conservation Foundation, said limits on chinook fishing and restrictions on vessel movements are long-overdue initiatives, but more aggressive actions are needed to reduce the extinction risk for the southern residents.

http://digital.timescolonist.com/epaper/viewer.aspx?noredirect=true

KeRist! http://forum.flybc.ca/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif
Nog

[Ourea]

This is going to put a f**k into Raincoast member's sushi dinners after they high five each other now isn't it. Oh no it won't because them sustaining a demand for salmon to eat is different.
Insanity at it's best.

Put seal on their menu.

The left continues to keep sliding further and further to a world of extremism as the norm.

[303savage]

Fin Fish Closures from Long Beach, South Bank, Big Bank, Rats Nose all the way to Swiftsure.

Is that closure include every body of are the selected race going to be allowed to fish?

[Piperdown]

Biologist Misty MacDuffee, with the Raincoast Conservation Foundation, said limits on chinook fishing and restrictions on vessel movements are long-overdue initiatives, but more aggressive actions are needed to reduce the extinction risk for the southern residents.

http://digital.timescolonist.com/epaper/viewer.aspx?noredirect=true

KeRist! http://forum.flybc.ca/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif
Nog

That c*nt Misty i have emailed her numerous times pointing out the discrepancies in the shit she writes, never a reply. They all have their heads so far up their asses its a wonder they can even breath. Extinction my ass the numbers show the whales are within historical ranges. I am so tired of all this sh*t.

[IronNoggin]

Is that closure include every body of are the selected race going to be allowed to fish?

They will be allowed to fish.


... I am so tired of all this sh*t.

aYup. There are a LOT of other things I'd like to be spending my time on...
But if we don't spend that time now, there will be a lot less of the things we like to spend it on available to us.
And damn rights, it gets tiring alright... :icon_frow

Nog

[tubby]

15 years of big bank and Swiftsure fishing...multiple trips a year....80% hatchery fish.
seen killer whales near ukee once....eating a sea lion.
matt, you know the area extensively how many residents have you ever seen?
its almost always transients preying on sea lions at Wya to long beach.

[huntinnewbie]

Sorry was trying to post a pic taken of Saltspring of a pod of orcas completely surrounded by a shit load of whale watching boats but can't get the pic off a FB page.

[tigrr]

Close all that area so the seals and sea lions population can get even bigger than it already is.

[IronNoggin]

15 years of big bank and Swiftsure fishing...multiple trips a year....80% hatchery fish.
seen killer whales near ukee once....eating a sea lion.
matt, you know the area extensively how many residents have you ever seen?
its almost always transients preying on sea lions at Wya to long beach.

O have fished these areas commercially, guiding and recreationally for a spell alright.
I do not ever remember the southern salmon eaters being present except once.
That was on the Finger Bank SE of La Perouse, and perhaps a decade ago.

I have seen the transients in action numerous times, and openly encouraged them when they were feeding on sea lions.
But those are not the question here, their populations are actually doing rather fine.

So, again, the areas suggested for closure here really do not reflect areas the southern orcas frequent.
And thus it is very difficult to see this proposal as anything but do-nothing platitudes from DFO for the greenies, and of course helping Parks secure their heart's held desire to control the entire area.

Deadline for comments is TOMORROW Folks!!

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/forms/sara-lep/killerwhales-epaulards/workbook-cahier-eng.aspx

Cheers,
Nog

[Ourea]

Nog

Here is the scary part that is now becoming the norm in today's world.
When you have more and more ever leaning leftist organizations and Gov's this is just one small example of legislated compliance to their ideology and beliefs as anyone else's valid concerns are inferior.

When facts and science get in the way they simply legislate the desired compliance, that's their game. Guaranteed that if the average voter knew how far left Trudeau's position was they never would have voted for them.

We have a Fed Gov that is commanding speech in how we address people.
(Trudeau is telling us the words we can or cannot use when addressing certain sectors of the community.)

Not trying to take this train off the rails but when you have governing bodies that are willing to force their desired goals on anyone at any cost.....look what you get.

Regulate rather than invest in the real fix.

Crushing and devastating coastal communities?
Allowing the biggest strain on salmon stocks to grow in numbers to epidemic levels?
Ignoring the fact that sport fishing and heavily regulated commercial fishing (for most) is not the known factor in declining salmon stalks?

Organized insanity at it's finest.

[IronNoggin]

Organized insanity at it's finest.

Absolutely, 100 % Concur with every single thing you posted. https://bigshotsbc.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Pozitive.gif

It is becoming downright frightening for those of us who live, work and play outdoors.
The playground gets a little more constrained, and has more rules emplaced on it damn near daily.

I desperately hope we can break this cycle, and of course will be pushing as hard as I can in the coming PR referendum, and in both the provincial & federal elections.
We don't stand up on our own hind feet, the leftie snowflakes will run us right off of damn near every single thing we find enjoyable!! :sad:

Worried!
Nog

[IronNoggin]

Many Thanks to those that stood up and got their comments in. It is truly appreciated! It seems these days more and more our governments seem to believe they can simply govern us like sheep, with no consideration of the consequences of their actions. Many are starting to rebel against such control, and demanding accountability. My hat is off to those from here who join us in doing so in these matters!! https://bigshotsbc.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Pozitive.gif

Deadline for Comments is TODAY Folks!

Again, many Thanks to those who chose to help us fight this nastiness...
Matt

[Rupert Retired]

You are of course entitled to your opinion.
I however respectfully disagree.

Yes, we have too few chinook.
Yes, we must seek ways to increase their numbers.

However looking at the lower numbers of springs being the SOLE factor in the decline of the southern orcas is beyond questionable.
That is simply one piece of the puzzle.
Inbreeding is prevalent, and if continued, will further reduce their numbers.
Pollution in their food sources and environment is concentrated in their fatty tissues. Many would be seriously considered "toxic waste" should they roll up on your beach.
Mothers pass these toxins to their offspring through their milk. Many of those offspring die as a consequence.
Shipping provides some interference, however IMHO it is the whale watchers who interfere with these animals the most.
They are "loving them to death" and crowd them constantly / daily.
There are more of course, but you see where this is headed.

The government's own biologists told them what was required:
- Ramp up hatchery production to the max (short term) and increase net pen releases;
- Get on with major habitat mitigation & enhancement efforts yesterday;
- Knock back the overly populated pinnipeds proven to consume damn near 1/2 the annual production of springs & coho in the effected areas. (By the way, these pinnipeds consume 600 % of the combined commercial & recreational catch annually).

Those same biologists cautioned against area / fishing closures, specifically noting "they would provide very little in the way of significant positive results". DFO has chosen the "easy way out" in this case, choosing NOT to address what their own scientists are advising them, and proceeding with draconian closures in order to "appear" to be doing something, while in fact doing nothing.
Sad.

So, I'll choose to side with the Biologists. I trust their science, and I trust their gut instincts.
The government has lead us into many many messes by ignoring their advice.
Methinks this is simply another case of the same.

FYI: Although a case can be made for some of Swiftsure, the same is not true northwest of that area.
It is frequented by US origin chinook, that travel but rarely into the areas where they could present prey items to the southern orcas.

Note that these whales have fluctuated up and down between where they are now, and 10 - 15 more individuals ever since the days of aquarium capture ended. This has been going on for some time now.
There is a price to pay for being a "specialist".
The northern and transient pods have been increasing through the same time periods.

Also note Parks Canada involvement in this latest proposal.
That fits ever so nicely with their twice defeated agenda of creating marine park areas in the exact same areas.
Please do not try to convince me that is unintentional...

Nog

I understand your passionate defense of the status quo, or rather, chinook fishing opportunities. However, let's disect your response:

1.
Inbreeding is prevalent, and if continued, will further reduce their numbers.
True. OK, how do we address this? It is a problem, but I can see no way to address it. If you cannot influence the problem, that is not an excuse to do nothing that you can influence.

2.
Pollution in their food sources and environment is concentrated in their fatty tissues. Many would be seriously considered "toxic waste
" should they roll up on your beach.
True again! Same answer though.

3.
Mothers pass these toxins to their offspring through their milk. Many of those offspring die as a consequence.
Well, for this one, I would ask for a reference, whose work are you citing. However, I it sounds reasonable, so am not going to dispute you. Again, "so what?"

4.
Shipping provides some interference, however IMHO it is the whale watchers who interfere with these animals the most.
They are "loving them to death
" and crowd them constantly / daily.

I think the Feds did something about this today, actually (at least I saw it on the news, no other information about it though).

5.
There are more of course, but you see where this is headed.
Yes, I do see where this is headed, it is deflecting the issue of providing Orcas their food, in the interest of maintaining chinook fishing opportunities.

Don't get me wrong, I have been a life-long fisherman and hunter, but the science I have reviewed doesn't paint a very rosy picture for chinook fishermen. I am not an advocate (and in fact am a strong opponent) of what seems to be an unholy alliance between some BC First Nations and some international environmental advocacy groups.

Finally, some of your points are spot on. The increase of seals and sea-lions is unconscionable. Predator management is a legitimate form of wildlife management, but like the wolf situation, any political party that advocated culling seal or sea lion populations wouldn't stand a chance.

So, we can only do what we can do. And currently, it seems DFO can only do chinook closures. Personally, I don't think these will cut it (as you don't as well, from you post), so there will be more on the horizon, so enjoy what is left right now while you can!

[Islander30]

Ya Id say the solution is culling seals and sea lions and start producing some serious hatchery numbers....these closures are so useless at solving the problem that most likely the SRKW will disappear all together before the chinook numbers ever increase enough...in which case they can open the fishing back up again.....or maybe the damn picky whales will learn to eat something else.

[Edward Teach]

Knock back the overly populated pinnipeds proven to consume damn near 1/2 the annual production of springs & coho in the effected areas. (By the way, these pinnipeds consume 600 % of the combined commercial & recreational catch annually).

So basically the same thing that happened to the East Coast Cod is going to happen here. F*** me...!
DFO...I don't know what O stands for, but DF clearly stands for Dumb F***ers. Two coasts, EXACT SAME F***up!
God help us.

Apologies for the language, but I'm beside myself. You'd think they would learn.

[IronNoggin]

...
There are more of course, but you see where this is headed.


Yes, I do see where this is headed, it is deflecting the issue of providing Orcas their food, in the interest of maintaining chinook fishing opportunities.

As previously noted, these closures and restrictions, according to DFO's own science team, will not make any significant difference in the number of chinook available for the whales to consume. The effect of this proposal will result in extremely little gain, at a cost of great disruption to individuals and Communities as a whole. It simply isn't worth it.

There are many other steps that could, and should be taken IF the chinook and the whales were the REAL concern here.


Don't get me wrong, I have been a life-long fisherman and hunter, but the science I have reviewed doesn't paint a very rosy picture for chinook fishermen.

Unfortunately this may be true. DFO's performance when it comes to protecting resources, and enhancing both habitat and salmon populations is much less than stellar. Under their particular form of management, most (if not all) the resources that are unfortunate enough to fall under their mandate are likely doomed in the long haul.


Finally, some of your points are spot on. The increase of seals and sea-lions is unconscionable. Predator management is a legitimate form of wildlife management, but like the wolf situation, any political party that advocated culling seal or sea lion populations wouldn't stand a chance.

Which would lead to the conclusion that such harvests or culls would necessarily have to be performed by those who are under the least influence by the government in this regard as possible...



There are a great many things that are more harmful than anglers in this matter.
DFO knows that, but chooses time and time again to follow the path of least resistance, and fire on the low hanging fruit that it can influence without actually doing anything constructive nor positive. They have followed this pattern for so long now they do not know any other way it seems.

I'd like to offer a firm Thank You to those from here who took a few minutes out of their lives to provide help in the way of comment. http://forum.flybc.ca/style_emoticons/default/salute.gif
Your efforts are sincerely appreciated!!

This fight is far from over, simply Round One is winding down is all.
The negative effects of this proposal are both wide in scope, and completely unacceptable.
We will continue to fight this every inch of the way, and the groundswell of support for that pursuit is growing daily.
No one can predict if we will carry the day or not.
But we sure as hell are going to give it our best shot!

Again, Thanks Folks!!

Cheers,
Nog