Backup Shot at a Black Bear?

[dustycool]

This story ended up longer than I expected, but I wanted to give some context before asking my question at the tend. This one has been nagging at me for weeks.

May long weekend I was out with a couple buddies for a black bear hunt. My one buddy is moving out of country later this year and figured this might be his last chance to hunt a black bear, so he’s motivated. Anyway, Sunday around noon we come around the corner of an FSR and spook a bear off the only patch of green grass for miles. We back off and wait twenty minutes with a strong wind in our favour. We sneak back in on foot and start to settle in to wait for a bit when we both realize that the bear is actually sitting on a ledge twenty feet above the grass we were focused on and watching us from 40 yards away. All around the bear, and us, is 15 foot Christmas trees packed tightly together. I figure I’m going to setup to fire a backup shot as soon as I hear my buddies gun fire. I don’t want to track a bear further through this stuff than necessary. We’re both lined up. My buddy fires. The bear spins around. All I see is fur in my scope when I fire, but I know it’s more backside than broadside. The bear disappears.

I walk over to my buddy and ask him how he felt about the shot. “I don’t know. I don’t even know if my scope is still good.” His sling had broken off earlier in the day and the rifle had fallen on the ground scope first, but he had elected to continue hunting. I was upset with that answer, but overall was still feeling positive about the situation. After a short wait we head up onto the ledge and find no sign of blood or hair. I get nervous. Three of us spend the next hour crawling around in the tangled branches of these Christmas trees and find zero blood, zero hair, and zero indication of direction of travel beyond the first five feet. We, however, did find my buddies bullet embedded in a rotten stump behind where the bear was standing. Based on trajectory etc, he is convinced that he missed below the chest between the bears legs. Now I’m even more frustrated and feeling sick because I took a poor angle shot at a moving bear that hadn’t even been hit yet. I also know that zero sign doesn’t always mean zero hit. I made my buddy sight in his rifle right away. It seemed fine, not a problem with the scope.

I know that we both made mistakes in this scenario and I’ll own mine. But I have a question for the forum. I’ve done most of my hunting alone, without anyone available for “backup” shots. I’ve always thought it seemed like a good idea if available. Now I’m not so sure. How many people use them and in which circumstances? Would you take my shot as I’ve described it here?

[Drillbit]

You didn't do anything wrong.

You were doing your best to kill it as fast as possible.

Usually when the first guy hits, the second guy does too cause they don't really move.
Usually when the first guy misses, the second guy does too.


I usually hunt alone too, but the times I had somebody with me and they shot right after me has saved lots of work.

[TexasWalker]

Personally I'm not into "backup" shots.
I handload premium bullets and am very proficient with my rifles.
I have never needed or felt the need for somebody to back me up.

It sounds like you probably shot a bear in the ass or missed it completely, you'll never really know.
That's what eats at a guy in situations like this or with lost animals you know you hit, the unknown.

[crassul]

The first shot must have hit the bear, or it would not have spinned. It would have run straight to cover.
I shot a bear this May, zero blood, ran 30 meters, when I gut him, the bullet hit a little low, took one lung and the liver, exit the other side and hit the ground behind him, I thought I missed, clear miss.

[walks with deer]

bears rarley leave blood trails.

[boxhitch]

You didn't do anything wrong.

You were doing your best to kill it as fast as possible.drilled it.

Nobody else can make the judgement , you did what you did with best intent
It sux that you didn't find the bear, but thats hunting

[boxhitch]

How many people use them and in which circumstances? Have and in the same circumstances as you. Two holes are always better than one, always

Have also been on shots where I wished I had taken a follow-up as the shooter takes what I call the Golf Shot instead of shooting again

[sawmill]

bears rarley leave blood trails.

Huh? I have trailed more than a few, always had blood.

[Fella]

2 backup shooter stories that illustrate that it can be a crap shoot:
-Was bear hunting with 2 buddies, they were out together when one guy decides to take a poke at a bear that was about 100 yards away. He somehow smoked it in the arse and the thing took off like a bat out of hell. Second guy stops it dead in its tracks with a shot through the head. Saved us a long night of tracking.

Second story: same guy who dropped the bear was hunting with his wife’s uncle, Uncle is an extremely accomplished hunter. They were glassing a cut, uncle sees a buck 150 yards away and puts one through the lungs, but as deer sometimes do it turned and started pronking away from them while leaking mega blood, buddy thinks it’s gonna get away so takes a poke at it and deer stumbles and drops. Uncle tells him that he didn’t need the shot, deer was walking dead. Anyways they get to the deer and only find the broadside shot but one of the deers hooves looked funny. Uncle asks buddy “where did you aim?” Buddy answers “back of the neck”. Turns out somehow buddy had shot that deer through the bottom of its foot. We always ask him if he cripples his game first now to keep it from getting away.

[caddisguy]

Backup shots can be pretty difficult. It requires that two people be ready to shoot in sequence. Often the animal will be running half a second after the first shot (unless they get the bear good) ... second shot might end up being more "forced". I am not against the idea. It's all circumstantial. If there is time for a good follow up shot I'd go for it.

Anyway, all you can really do is what you did. Check out ground zero. If there is no blood or fur, start doing a grid search for a few hundred meters. Use your nose for any hint of lawn mower waste or wet dog smell. You can come back the next day too and look up... for ravens.

Most of the bears I have shot bang flopped yet still managed to leak a lot of blood... lung shots, head shot, neck shot, liver shot, etc. The liver shot one went off like a hose. I still needed to finish him off but noticed when field dressing there was virtually no blood left in that bear. I WISHED I would have taken the follow up shot on that bear. I just saw him flail around with blood going everywhere and he went down, twitching. I can't count how many times I raised my rifle back up to shoot again then decided it wasn't necessary... probably around 5x in 10 seconds.

I also had a bear run and followed up my own shot then he piled up. I only found one bullet hole so to this day I don't know which one actually hit him... as I didn't do much detective work (walking up to where I initially shot him to see if there was sign) most likely the one where he wasn't running. Timing on the other was probably coincidence.

But as walks with deer said, it can happen where there is no blood at all... probably due to all the fat and fur (which makes sense when you see the mammoths walks with deer shoots). That said it can even happen with deer.

Well bummer about not getting the bear. It's still a really good story though. Thanks for posting it up. Out of curiosity, was this Region 2 and was the ledge he was sitting on covered in moss? And was it a brown phase bear? http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[Wild one]

Huh? I have trailed more than a few, always had blood.

Tracked lots of bears that left little to no blood. Wifes bear this spring 270 one shoulder and double lung ran 50yards no blood till we were within 10 feet

I would go as far to say 25% of the bears I have tracked left little to no blood. Actually prefer tracking archery bears because of the better blood trail

Might just be luck of the draw but this has been my experience and tracked lots of bears

[RyoTHC]

I won't get into details. But I was in this exact situation this year. Only mine turned out OK. I was set up with my 6mm with ELDX, as I didn't intend to hunt bear this day, just always take a gun with me.

We find a big boar feeding about 100yards away. Crawl up and set up, partner on bipod . Me on a knee ready for follow-up as soon as I hear the bang..

Seconds later BANG and a bear quickly turning, so I fire into the center of center and the bear vanished into the trees... While waiting I talk to my buddy and he is confident he missed as he saw dirt fly up everywhere to the bears right, so my stomach sank... If he in fact missed the bear, the only thing that hit a 400+lb animal was a 103grain ELDX we wait a few minutes and head in to thankfully find the bruin sprawled out the direction he was running not 10 yards into the trees, turns out my buddy did completely miss with his 165 grain Nosler partition...

Thankfully this turned out well for us, but what was meant to be a follow-up and to put the animal down as fast as possible ended up being a marginal single shot that just happened to take both lungs and the heart out, a few inches either direction and I fear we would have never found that bear... All's well that ends well but I definately learned something, and will not make the same mistake again in the future !!!

[wideopenthrottle]

on the rare occasion when I am with another person (like before we split up or after we meet up again) I would go with back up shooters on say a moose bear or elk but way less likely on a deer....moose yes cuz they are big and often stay put after being shot once giving the backup guy a good shot placement...with Elk or bear I would try to do a 123 shoot and keep shooting till its down (bear)...or in a bad shooting position for elk...

[Piperdown]

Just make sure you both have tags. CO up where i have my cabin nailed a guy for walking up to his buddies moose and put one in the back of it's neck for the put him out of his misery shot. He had shot a bull the day before, CO said he shot 2 animals and took his buddies bull and fined him for harvesting 2 animals.

[KodiakHntr]

Technically it is considered "party hunting", as you are both trying to fill one tag. Illegal in BC....


As for taking the shot at another guy's animal, I'm of a couple different mindsets. Personally, if one of my buddies takes a poke at an animal I've already shot at without me giving the go ahead after my shot, then he's gonna be walking home. That said, I HAVE taken a couple shots over the years to bat clean up. Depends on the animal, and what the situation is going to be if the first shot wasn't ideal.
If there was a poor shot on a grizzly or really big black and I'm the guy who is going to be going in to clean it up anyway, then I'm going to possibly take a shot if I think it will be necessary, depending on the animals reaction to the initial hit. In all circumstances I'm going to be happier if the first shooter manages to make a second hit, rather than a second shooter making a first hit.

Taking a shot just because you are both scared of the aftermath, or scared to lose something because it is the first opportunity you've had, opens you up for a lot of problems. Not the least of which would be an animal wounded because shooter one missed due to being excited or nervous, and shooter two was nervous and shooting at a running animal.

Being able to call your shots will be a big help in the future, knowing that the cross hairs weren't where they were supposed to be when the trigger broke will help make the decision to call for a second shooter, but that will only come with experience and lots of dynamic shooting practice.

In my opinion the OP shouldn't have taken a "backup shot". His buddy missed, and then a low percentage poor angle shot was taken by an excited shooter. Bad deal all around.

Just my opinion though, pay what its worth to you.

[RyoTHC]

[QUOTE=KodiakHntr;2011804]Technically it is considered "party hunting", as you are both trying to fill one tag. Illegal in BC....


Not the case assuming everyone in the group has tags correct ??

[KodiakHntr]

Depends on the CO at that point, from conversations I've had on the subject with CO's.

For me, its not really worth the possibility of having to have that particular discussion with a CO, and hope that he is one of the ones who sees it your way....

[mastercaster]

Always thought the shooter who took the shot that puts the animal down for good SHOULD tag the animal,,,, if you're going by the letter of the law.

[dana]

No where in the regs does it say only 1 hunter can shoot at an animal. Back up shots on bears should be encouraged not discouraged. Walking up on a dead bear with 2 holes in it is much better than walking up on a wounded bear with one hole in it. In the thick $hit, a wounded bear has all the advantages.
To respond to the OP, I have seen bears spin countless times on close misses. If you found the one bullet in a tree, you probably have a good idea how close the bear had the bullet come to him. It takes some nerves but the back up shot should be almost on top of the first shot. Or else it is a Hail Mary. In this situation with a ton of thick surrounding the bear, I probably would have waited for the bear to mosey down into the green again. And then anchor the bear before it hits the thick. Hindsight is always 20/20. Look at it as a learning and don’t get too down on yourself playing what if’s in your head.

[dustycool]

Well bummer about not getting the bear. It's still a really good story though. Thanks for posting it up. Out of curiosity, was this Region 2 and was the ledge he was sitting on covered in moss? And was it a brown phase bear? :grin:

Yes, it was region 2 and yes it was a brown phase bear. I wouldn’t say the ledge was particularly mossy though.

[dustycool]

In my opinion the OP shouldn't have taken a "backup shot". His buddy missed, and then a low percentage poor angle shot was taken by an excited shooter. Bad deal all around.

Just my opinion though, pay what its worth to you.

I appreciate the opinion. I asked the question to get just that. Hope to hear a few more.

[swampthing]

Anybody who aims his rifle at an animal I am set up to take is a guy I wont hunt with anymore! I wouldn't hunt if I didn't think I couldn't do it myself.

[swampthing]

In reading my last comment I seem like an ass! If your friend was ok with you taking a back up shot then I feel that's fine!

[Livewire322]

Heck, if it’s a big bruiser and you want to do a 1-2-3 “shoot” type thing then I could almost see it.

In my opinion, it’s ultimately the primary shooters responsibility to only take a shot they are comfortable with and are confident will kill the animal quickly.

Bear in mind that this is the opinion my opinion because I hunt alone or am the only one looking for big game my group.

[Piperdown]

In reading my last comment I seem like an ass! If your friend was ok with you taking a back up shot then I feel that's fine!

I like that Swampthing, good on you :)

[m5wilson]

I am fine with back up shots, given that the back up shot still has a likely chance of being a good hit. Only ever done it with both people having a valid tag, which I can't see being wrong as alone we would both be able to shoot the animal?

[caddisguy]

Yes, it was region 2 and yes it was a brown phase bear. I wouldn’t say the ledge was particularly mossy though.

I think I might know that bear. He is evil and has horse shoes up his arse. Go back there with an RPG.

Does this guy look familiar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhyWh74w7WU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhyWh74w7WU

[dustycool]

I think I might know that bear. He is evil and has horse shoes up his arse. Go back there with an RPG.

Does this guy look familiar?



Similar looking bear, but I don’t think it is the same area. From reading your posts about the ass hole bear it sounds like an area with a lot more recreational users around than where we were at. I really enjoy reading your stories btw. You share great stuff.

[caddisguy]

Similar looking bear, but I don’t think it is the same area. From reading your posts about the ass hole bear it sounds like an area with a lot more recreational users around than where we were at. I really enjoy reading your stories btw. You share great stuff.

Yes lots of of rec users along the roads around there this time of year. When I read your story it painted some very familiar scenery in my mind.

Did you end up going back out for bears? I enjoyed your story too as well as the thought-provoking thread. Some of the most memorable moments are the ones where things don't go as planned.

[Mik]

Usually if the bear spins, means its hit. IMHO; a Follow up shot should ONLY be taken if your partner asks for it and Only if you have a valid tag for that particular species, otherwise, it is illegal to shoot by the 2nd person. (im curious as too if the Bear let out any kind of scream?)