Elephant Hill Fire Area closed to all motorized vehicles

[boxhitch]

Anyone else see the news?

May 11, 2018
ORDER Section 58 (1) of the Forest and range practices Act in the Elephant Hill Wildfire Area
The proposed section 58 closes the areas for unauthorized use of motorized vehicles including automobiles,trucks, motorcycles, motorhomes and all types of off road recreation vehicles.
This is a short term order that would be in effect this season from May 17, 2018 until December 31st, 2018, while restoration activities for the fire area are being planned and initiated

[scoutlt1]

I will always call it the "Ashcroft Reserve fire".....

"Classen was on his way home when the fire erupted July 6 in the close-knit First Nation community of 76 people"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/cruel-welcome-back-for-ashcroft-indian-band-reserve-evacuees-1.4204412

[Bugle M In]

"Restoration Activities"......like what????(hope someone has some insight on that?)

If they want to spend some time to deactivate some of those "fire perimeter roads", then okay, but that won't
take that long.
Also, is "everyone" banned???? (doubt that).
Leave it alone, it will grow back if you ask me, the way it was "intended" to do by MN.
Interested to hear what the "reasoning is this time".
If it is due to "waiting for sightlines to disappear as new growth reappears", then kiss any of that area away for
the next 10 years.
And if that's the case, another big fire season like last year, and we will "all" be sitting at home for the season/s.
(At least til we kick the ndp out)

[browningboy]

I own a cabin at Loon Lake and i have no info, emails or postings on this, i dont think this is very transparent as theres no explaination of extent etc as theres cabin owners, resorts etc that are accessed by forest roads, so people cant go to their cabin and resorts shut down?
This makes no sense

[REMINGTON JIM]

I will always call it the "Ashcroft Reserve fire".....

"Classen was on his way home when the fire erupted July 6 in the close-knit First Nation community of 76 people"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/cruel-welcome-back-for-ashcroft-indian-band-reserve-evacuees-1.4204412

Yea you BET because they Caused the WHOLE problem ! :mad: RJ

[bcsteve]

Anyone else see the news?

May 11, 2018
ORDER Section 58 (1) of the Forest and range practices Act in the Elephant Hill Wildfire Area
The proposed section 58 closes the areas for unauthorized use of motorized vehicles including automobiles,trucks, motorcycles, motorhomes and all types of off road recreation vehicles.
This is a short term order that would be in effect this season from May 17, 2018 until December 31st, 2018, while restoration activities for the fire area are being planned and initiated
Where did you see that?

[whitlers]

Few family members have cabins up there. I can understand keeping quads/bikes off the brush, off trail etc but if your on a well used trail I see no problem. I agree with deactivating some of the roads put in for the fire but does that take the whole summer? Then it will be closed again in fall.

[lip_ripper00]

I can’t believe the penny has not dropped for most people on here........ wow.....

[Hunterguy]

Areas? Would like to see a map of the closures. Does this effect the spring bear hunt?

[TexasWalker]

Haven't seen anything official on this on any government sites and front counter said they haven't seen it.
Looks like it's bogus thus far.

[338win mag]

For the benefit of ungulates.......all recent fire area's should be closed to vehicular traffic, especially hunting, closed to all people not just some.
If we want habitat for ungulates then the roads need to be closed, cant have it both ways. If there is any benefit to closed vehicular access it will be for the ungulate population.

[boxhitch]

This came from a page shot that someone posted up on another sm site, thats why I asked if anyone else had seen it.
Original was labelled 'To Tenure Holder'

[boxhitch]

Appears to be bogus, don't trust the intrawweb

[TexasWalker]

For the benefit of ungulates.......all recent fire area's should be closed to vehicular traffic, especially hunting, closed to all people not just some.
If we want habitat for ungulates then the roads need to be closed, cant have it both ways. If there is any benefit to closed vehicular access it will be for the ungulate population.

Your thinking is completely backwards.
It's actually a good time to harvest ungulates after a fire as the food supply is so low for a few years there is too much competition and they end up having a hard time wintering.
It's better to have less animals eating what food is available rather than too many animals competing for the food that isn't.
This is a very simple concept that has been documented in other large burn areas,

You made a good point until that little slur at the end which I removed. I've punted you before, its not hard to do again!

[wideopenthrottle]

...thought I found a good article on food available after a burn but it was lame...will keep looking

[Bugle M In]

One thing I wished I had done last season after the fire was to select a few areas to photograph, and
then as each season goes by, take photos every year of those same scenes and there changes over time.

Glad to hear the article was bogus.

[dmaxtech]

Yes, its real. Apparently to restrict access to the 1200km of cat track fire breaks that were put in fighting the fires. Heard they will be deactivating/ remediating the cat tracks this summer. Waiting for clarification on if it affects travel on FSRs or only deactivated roads and trails.

[Bugle M In]

Yes, its real. Apparently to restrict access to the 1200km of cat track fire breaks that were put in fighting the fires. Heard they will be deactivating/ remediating the cat tracks this summer. Waiting for clarification on if it affects travel on FSRs or only deactivated roads and trails.

That part I can understand, and agree fully with, as you could get 3 shots off before the deer crossed (IMO).
Plus, and I don't know how they managed it, but they put those fire breaks "right into several honey holes":p
(amazing how that happened!!??)

But, to have it all shut down til December seems a little much.
That means they have "canned the entire area" for hunting this fall.
If that's the case, I guess other areas are going to get a whole lot more crowded.
People heading back to some old stomping grounds that they have hunted in years I suppose?
(Saw that happen when R5 closed for nov 10 -20th)
What are they worried about, that someone is going to get shot accidently??
I can understand banning the quads for now, just like last season.
(that's was a good decision, IMO, but only for time to deactivate stuff)

[dmaxtech]

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/industry/natural-resource-use/resource-roads/local-road-safety-information/thompson-rivers-natural-resource-district-road-safety-information

[elch jager]

Likely a result of this review...
https://bcfloodfirereview.ca/

[boxhitch]

Haven't seen anything official on this on any government sites and front counter said they haven't seen it.
Looks like it's bogus thus far.My post at 7;15, yours at midnight
you are connected aren't you

[Jelvis]

The whole area your describing is 100% Indian redoing, I saw it on the news, all work on this huge area fire burned Elephant Hill is already been contracted to be this way, I seen it on TV so you can look it up on the intra web it will be on there already another guy saw the same thing.
Jel -- The entire area -- If someone good at computer could put that article on here for us to read -- under Entire Area redone by Indians --

[303savage]

Looks like it's bogus thus far.

Might be just some people thinking out loud.

[dmaxtech]

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/natural-resource-use/resource-roads/local-road-safety-information/elephant-hill-section-58_map.jpg

Looks like closure will not apply to existing roads.

[TexasWalker]

My post at 7;15, yours at midnight
you are connected aren't you

I wish lol

[srupp]

Hmmm trying to understand the closure. .it is open on highways main roads, and FSR..?
Just the fire fighting track rds made for fighting last years fires? Are closed..is this correct ?
Thank you.
Srupp

[Bugle M In]

That's how I am understanding it....hmmm:p

I definitely agree they need to do something with those fire perimeter roads, and am happy to see from
what I can tell that is what they are up to.
After I saw all those roads everywhere, I was totally in agreement with "shutting down ATV use".
My buddies who usually bring their quads up there were actually in agreement with it too, after they saw it
for themselves.
If they ban them this year, I can understand it as well
(Sure made for a "quiet" hunting weekend, to be honest, noise wise)

[sako79]

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/natural-resource-use/resource-roads/local-road-safety-information/elephant-hill-section-58_map.jpg

[338win mag]

Your thinking is completely backwards.
It's actually a good time to harvest ungulates after a fire as the food supply is so low for a few years there is too much competition and they end up having a hard time wintering.
It's better to have less animals eating what food is available rather than too many animals competing for the food that isn't.
This is a very simple concept that has been documented in other large burn areas,

You made a good point until that little slur at the end which I removed. I've punted you before, its not hard to do again!
Can anyone enlighten me as to what this guy is talking about?

[gcreek]

Can anyone enlighten me as to what this guy is talking about?

Simply put, he wants the last of everything shot.

[dmaxtech]

I think he’s referring to the carrying capacity being reduced due to the burned areas not growing but the animals are all seeking refuge in the green areas. Come winter they could starve if there are too many of them.

[dana]

I think he’s referring to the carrying capacity being reduced due to the burned areas not growing but the animals are all seeking refuge in the green areas. Come winter they could starve if there are too many of them.

The assumption you are making is that there are too many of them.

[338win mag]

Your thinking is completely backwards.
It's actually a good time to harvest ungulates after a fire as the food supply is so low for a few years there is too much competition and they end up having a hard time wintering.
It's better to have less animals eating what food is available rather than too many animals competing for the food that isn't.
This is a very simple concept that has been documented in other large burn areas,

You made a good point until that little slur at the end which I removed. I've punted you before, its not hard to do again!
Really? You better pm me your beef punk

[Steeleco]

Really? You better pm me your beef punk That was put there by ME. not TW who you calling punk??? LOL

[338win mag]

That was put there by ME. not TW who you calling punk??? LOL
Sorry bout that Steelco.

[browningboy]

I was there last weekend and was pleasantly surprised with the amount of new growth, lots of greenery everywhere, lots of feed. I’m okay if they shut down the deactivated roads, like walking but until they get their shiet together and post signs up and make it transparent it won’t be followed, and be tough to in force.

[Weatherby Fan]

The way I read it Bernie is all the existing roads are ok to drive on just not off of them ?

[dmaxtech]

The way I read it Bernie is all the existing roads are ok to drive on just not off of them ?

That's how I read it too. You can use the roads but not the trails/deactivated roads or fireguards.

[boxhitch]

I wish lolso it was more bs

[boxhitch]

Hmmm trying to understand the closure. .it is open on highways main roads, and FSR..?
Just the fire fighting track rds made for fighting last years fires? Are closed..is this correct ?
Thank you.
Srupp

Off-roading will be banned in the Elephant Hill wildfire area effective this Thursday. The closure will remain in effective until Dec. 31, 2018
cfjctoday.com/article/620909/province-closes-elephant-hill-wildfire-area-road-vehicle-use

[Jelvis]

Moose, deer are having babies now, calves and fawns, baby bears you name it, vulnerable to noise pollution and disturbance with the terrain completely changed and naked.
Jel -- May is Mothers day -- Spring is birth time -- lots of lil ones -- real small drinking milk --

[TexasWalker]

so it was more bs

How was it BS exactly?
The letter you posted had been floating around online all day, many people including myself had phoned a few agencies to question the validity of the letter.

[Jelvis]

Hey Tex I dig yer stuff like the whole world does, but cood yah change that avatar photo? It's not you I hope?
Jel - that picture is too much ok

[338win mag]

Moose, deer are having babies now, calves and fawns, baby bears you name it, vulnerable to noise pollution and disturbance with the terrain completely changed and naked.
Jel -- May is Mothers day -- Spring is birth time -- lots of lil ones -- real small drinking milk --
This^^^^^
Also, with the Mule deer pops needing a refuge with high quality habitat, and after seeing every fire inundated with hunters with quads, trucks etc, the benefits of the fire are for not if they are all shot by so called "gut pile chasers"
Vehicular access is precisely what the Mule deer dont need for an already struggling Mule deer population, and it would be shameful for any restrictions to be ignored by anyone.

[horshur]

It looks like the map I expected last fall...
reducing the access that was the result of fighting the fire can only be good for hunting in the future...but for sure it is going to cramp people's style.

[338win mag]

Vehicle restrictions are going to have to be part of future game management if were going to enhance Mule deer pops, habitat etc in BC.
If the restrictions aren't observed by the Natives then were going to have a problem, and will show complete contempt for wildlife policies beneficial for the people of BC and more importantly....Mule deer. I dont consider a vehicle restriction as an infringement on an "aboriginal right to hunt" therefore should apply to all people.

I find any further restictions on resident hunters to truly "cramp peoples lifestyle" and there is no need for it in the first place.
Someone dropped the ball on many other fires in this province in regards to access minimizing the overall outcome of the increased habitat. The game pops will explode outside of the restricted area just as it will inside the restricted area, despite what the resident commie tells us.

[ruby]

Adding to the disturbance level, the whole area is and will be getting a big influx of mushroom pickers.

[limit time]

Hey Tex I dig yer stuff like the whole world does, but cood yah change that avatar photo? It's not you I hope?
Jel - that picture is too much ok

Who is the pic of Jelvis ? Does he offend you ?

[browningboy]

The way I read it Bernie is all the existing roads are ok to drive on just not off of them ?


Hear ya Don, but just saying its not black and white, if people have to interpret they are not being clear enough?

[Jelvis]

Gotta be clear like the boy says, people need to be given proper instructions as to what and how and when.
-- Not only clear for the public but clear for the authorities to understand.
-- C.O.s should be given a pay raise and benefit boost. Their jobs are getting more complicated as these things unravel.
Jel -- Only way is to make all people aware and then punish any of the disobedient who refuse to buckle under --

[Bugle M In]

Last season, when things opened up, there still were a "few groups" of quad hunters who
supposobly said "they hadn't heard" of the ATV ban. (until we told them)
On top of that, another group, who we saw on a quad as we drove in for the few days to hunt
early on on the road into where we camp, came to camp, with the quad in the box.
Later. I told them, that no quads allowed, and they responded "that they weren't on quads",
but, "we had just seen that they were on their quads".

I don't know how they stop it??
Easiest is to just ban the ATV's for a few years up there, which is then much easier to "regulate",
then saying "these roads in pink" are off limits.
That won't work worth S***.
Best way is totally tear up the area so quads cant get in!.
I don't think many of the fire perimeters are accessible by "truck" from what I saw, especially when the snow
hits (although that could be after the MD season ends...lol).
But the ATV can!

One last thing, and we need to start screaming about louder to the ministry is:
if the FN are "really concerned" about the future of their wildlife, they too, have to
"conform to the same bans"
Otherwise to me, all they ever say about being concerned, is utter BS!
So far I can only confirm that when they do get involved, it is generally self serving.

Time for them to "really join the cause" and "support the same bans" as everyone else!
But I know already, they wont!

[Jelvis]

You can't patrol for these abusers on atv's all day long, it costs money to have Officers working. Other priorities as well some even more crucial.
We need to rat these abusers out to our Ministry, secret meeting Hahaha
-- These abusers are in every area not just Elly Phont Hillz
Jel -- Some come out at night and drive around with cell phones and what not? -- while your lilly white ass is in bed. :roll:

[Sirloin]

First nations will be incharge of morel mushroom harvest charging $20 entry $30 camping in designated areas and $500 for mushroom buyers, cash only. Throughout the whole burn area

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2018FLNR0129-000970

[REMINGTON JIM]

So the BC Gov is IN on the Mushroom harvest chg ! So we BC TAXPAYERs have to pay Indians 20 $ to pick a few mushrooms on CROWN ? ( tax payers land ) Do i understand this right ? If so the Indians can ALL go PHUCK themselves before they get 20$ from me ! There the ones who started the fire in the first place and caused us tax payers HOW MANY MILLIONS $$$$$ of Dollars to extinguish the fire ! WTF ? :mad: jmo RJ

[Jelvis]

Pay up and shut up
Jel

[wideopenthrottle]

bizarro world

[REMINGTON JIM]

Pay up and shut up
Jel

You talking to me ? RJ

[RyoTHC]

I'll personally be going to pick some mushrooms on this area. I won't be paying $20 or $30. I'd love to be confronted by anyone besides official law enforcement officers. I am not a mushroom picker either, but just the principal of it is going to bring me out, heading out there Tuesday with a few friends. If they think I can't utilize crown land they can definitely go **** themself.

[ruby]

https://www.elephanthillfire.com/

[browningboy]

I see nothing on TNRD or BC Wildfire... I call BS

[caddisguy]

I see nothing on TNRD or BC Wildfire... I call BS

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2018FLNR0129-000970

[browningboy]

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2018FLNR0129-000970

Thanks, the entire area is still open to existing roads, so unless i'm misunderstanding something people can ride all over!

[wideopenthrottle]

when we were kids our group had an understanding......whenever someone found a patch of "raisin mushrooms" it was automatically a mushroom fight....both morels and false morels were ammunition

[browningboy]

Well if the natives go across my property there will be a trespass fee! LOL So silly what the government is creating here, it's like they are creating the friction....

[wideopenthrottle]

Well if the natives go across my property there will be a trespass fee! LOL So silly what the government is creating here, it's like they are creating the friction....

divide and conquer has always been a power ploy...

[Sirloin]

this is bigger than a quick cash grab. This is a total shift in power over land rights sanctioned by our government. from their website

"To assert Secwépemc rights, title and jurisdiction over our territory. As evidence by our northern neighbours the Tsilhqot’in, in the landmark supreme court case of 2014; all resource extraction and impacts to the land under Aboriginal title must gain approval from the Nation on who’s traditional territory operations propose to take place. This permit and the Terms and Conditions therein, will formalize a temporary land-use agreement with those applying to extract understory resources from Secwépemc Territory."

they want people to sign a temporary land use agreement with them to enter crown land and harvest mushrooms. What do you think is coming for hunting? time to wake up.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Sirloin QUOTE : they want people to sign a temporary land use agreement with them to enter crown land and harvest mushrooms. What do you think is coming for hunting? time to wake up.

I completely Agree with you and that PR*CK PM and BC Premier are gonna Help them ! :mad: jmo RJ

[srupp]

Pay up and shut up
Jel

Hmmm not a phuceeeeng chance..chill out jellye..
Steven going picking tommorrow...no fees..
Srupp

[rocksteady]

New world ruppster... fn want their cake and eat it too and our politicians (feds and provincial) are slicing it up and serving it on a silver platter with a "if you want more i will happiky cut you another slab"

[scoutlt1]

Complete joke.

Some native guy is going to stop me in the woods and tell me I have to pay him $20 because I'm picking mushrooms on his "traditional land"?? What happens if I don't pay? Take my mushrooms? Write me a ticket? What if I just keep on picking? Going to try and stop me??

Bring it!


F***ing outrageous. :mad::mad::mad:

[REMINGTON JIM]

Complete joke.

Some native guy is going to stop me in the woods and tell me I have to pay him $20 because I'm picking mushrooms on his "traditional land"?? What happens if I don't pay? Take my mushrooms? Write me a ticket? What if I just keep on picking? Going to try and stop me??

Bring it!


F***ing outrageous. :mad::mad::mad:

ABSOLUTELY ! TOTALLY WRONG ! All the Indians can just go PHUCK them selves ! IM done with them now ! :mad: RJ

[srupp]

Hmmm I have already had this discussion with indians last week NW of williams lake..politely informing I could not pick mushrooms..they had an agreement with RCMP and conservation service.
I told them I did not leave crown land by 3 natives.l had very few morels..couple big brain mushrooms..contact RCMP..they left..no RCMP..hmm maybe I got lucky?
Steven

[Weatherby Fan]

Complete joke.

Some native guy is going to stop me in the woods and tell me I have to pay him $20 because I'm picking mushrooms on his "traditional land"?? What happens if I don't pay? Take my mushrooms? Write me a ticket? What if I just keep on picking? Going to try and stop me??

Bring it!


F***ing outrageous. :mad::mad::mad:

LOL should have seen my response when I walked onto Anthony Island to look at the totem poles and the guardian come down and asked for $20 :shock: yeh Ill get right on that !

[HappyJack]

LOL should have seen my response when I walked onto Anthony Island to look at the totem poles and the guardian come down and asked for $20 :shock: yeh Ill get right on that !

That's pretty ballsy. I didn't think they'd be trying to get bingo money out of people like that. Myself I think I'll respect them on their land, but if they want cash it's going through their band office not handed over like a handout.

[boxhitch]

Myself I think I'll respect them on their land,Someday the courts will get around to drawing the lines in the rest of BC, we can only hope there are 'public' areas left

[Jelvis]

Sorry guys I was just joking, holy cow, pick all yah want it's a free world. Lots of shrooms I guess, never picked em.
Jelly Beans

[Grizzloonly]

Two more years. Elephant Hill closure extended to end of 2020 (https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2018FLNR0335-002446).

[boxhitch]

Can hope that the deer collaring program will help protect a few does

[Bugle M In]

I can understand the closure up there.
In the past, the dirt bike clubs made trails into places they had no business being, imo.
With that, the atv/orv hunters followed up those same trails.
It is because so many of these users "get off the road" that we have this now!
If the users had "all" stayed just on the roads, then maybe this wouldn't of happened.

And another 2 years of it, I doubt it, might be like that for the next 10, imo.
That being said, it was still the busiest season I have seen with hunters there in 35+ years up there.
Thought between the 1 MD limit and the atv/orv closure, that tis would add up to possibly 50% less traffic, but,
nope, busy as hell, regardless of those 2 new rules.
R5 stays closed, and some R3 mu's get hit hard by hunters.

[REMINGTON JIM]

The closure is NEVER going away ! Already a NEW extension added on ! RJ

[silvertipp]

The closure is NEVER going away ! Already a NEW extension added on ! RJ
I have a funny feeling you are absolutely right on this one
once it's in place it's going to be real hard to get it removed

[Bugle M In]

I always wanted to see the atv/orv's with license plates, I have to admit.
Helps when reporting people "breaking the law".

But with that in mind, they should allow the atv/orv's to travel on the same roads as a vehicle, imo.
Even up there.
But then there are some roads, due to deactivation or just large drainage ditches, that trucks cant get thru, but quads etc can.

I guess that's the main problem here to address.
sadly many do not comply, or push it.
Seen that again this season up there, and it always makes me shake my head.
It those people who ruin it for everyone else who does comply.

And yes, I don't see it being taken off for atleast 10, if not 15 years.
And yes, once something gets restricted, it seems it never gets lifted when problems are corrected.
I think they could address this differently however, imo.

[f350ps]

^^^^You only have to look at the Skull Mountain area for a glimpse at the future for this area! K

[sakohunter]

You all are worried about access. What I have seen up there this year, you all should be worried about wolves and coyotes. The ungulate numbers are going to take a serious drop this winter. There is no cover anymore up there due to the Pine beetle salvage harvest and the Ashcroft fire. In my opinion the succession process is a years away from providing enough winter food to sustain the wintering grounds that all the ungulates have traditionally migrated too. The road systems whether deactivated or not are dog super highways and the massive clear cuts are just big fields for the dogs to run the ungulates to exhaustion. You should all do the Moose and Deer a favor and take a predator hunting trip somewhere this winter and/or support a trapper in the areas you like to hunt.

[Bugle M In]

You all are worried about access. What I have seen up there this year, you all should be worried about wolves and coyotes. The ungulate numbers are going to take a serious drop this winter. There is no cover anymore up there due to the Pine beetle salvage harvest and the Ashcroft fire. In my opinion the succession process is a years away from providing enough winter food to sustain the wintering grounds that all the ungulates have traditionally migrated too. The road systems whether deactivated or not are dog super highways and the massive clear cuts are just big fields for the dogs to run the ungulates to exhaustion. You should all do the Moose and Deer a favor and take a predator hunting trip somewhere this winter and/or support a trapper in the areas you like to hunt.
Absolutely, there are more issues in the area then just "access"
Wolves and a free for all logging has definitely made an impact on the area for sure!!
And now there is tape up to remove some of that low lying winter range timber as well.
That fire wont make a difference in that area if you take into account all the human activity the past 15 to 20 years.
It shows and the wolves wont help it.
Also a lot more cats (cougars) in the area, and they are damn efficient hunters.
Lots of work ahead of us.
Try to get out there and take some Preds for sure.
If not, try to help out the Trappers, like ProGuide suggested.
Those are the only ways right now that ensures us some decent hunting opportunities in the area.
Otherwise, kiss that area good bye for 15+ years.