View Full Version : Region 4 LEH Cow Elk Allocations??
cassiarkid
04-17-2018, 09:12 PM
I didn't notice this last year, but why are the allocations for the antlerless elk in the Kootenay's down to 1 in all areas??
Cheers
Fisher-Dude
04-17-2018, 09:15 PM
It keeps the hunt on the books.
Much easier to increase authorizations than to get the hunt approved all over again.
cassiarkid
04-17-2018, 09:19 PM
Well I guess it's Van Isl Elk LEH this year then!
Islandeer
04-17-2018, 09:49 PM
It keeps the hunt on the books.
Much easier to increase authorizations than to get the hunt approved all over again.
By on the books you mean cancel the hunt otherwise?
They basically did that.
Fisher-Dude
04-17-2018, 10:25 PM
By on the books you mean cancel the hunt otherwise?
They basically did that.
Yes. If they cancel it, they have to get it reinstated by Victoria, which can lead to all sorts of political BS.
If they simply adjust the authorizations down to one, they can put it back up rather easily.
sawmill
04-17-2018, 11:42 PM
Well I guess it's Van Isl Elk LEH this year then!
Or you could just drive from Kimberley to Canal Flats and harvest one with your truck. I swear we saw 300 in 5 different herds going to Calgary last week. Pretty much on the road or in the ditch trying to get across. (Tip, drive a beater with a big bumper or borrow your ex-wifes truck)
Or you could just drive from Kimberley to Canal Flats and harvest one with your truck. I swear we saw 300 in 5 different herds going to Calgary last week. Pretty much on the road or in the ditch trying to get across. (Tip, drive a beater with a big bumper or borrow your ex-wifes truck)
It's nice to hear that there are still a few left. Didn't see one 2 weeks ago from Creston to Radium . Will see tomorrow. Added benefit to having 1 instead of 0 is money, but yeah, it's way easier to change the numbers than authorize a new LEH.
j270wsm
04-18-2018, 07:36 AM
I didn't notice this last year, but why are the allocations for the antlerless elk in the Kootenay's down to 1 in all areas??
Cheers
easiest answer......too many predators killing elk so why allow hunters to kill the ones we need to rebuild the herds. I'm all for an antler less elk season but the populations in some areas are way too low. My opinion.....they needed to reduce the number of tags 5 yrs ago
dapesche
04-18-2018, 09:34 AM
Some Info that may be of interest:
Q:
Hearing some people talk about region 4s populations being way lower than anticipated.
Is the population really down to approx 6000.
How did that happen? Some mentioned that the estimate was 15-20k.
Hoping for some clarity.
Thank you.
A:
Hi, the elk survey we completed this winter is for the East Kootenay Trench (MUs 4-02 to 4-04, 4-20 to 4-22, 4-24 to 4-26) and the estimate is going to be about 6800 elk. The previous estimate in 2008 was 14,000 elk but this was more than the habitat could support so populations were reduced from 2009-2013. Cow harvest is minimal now and we had pretty high calf ratios on the survey so I suspect the population is going to rebound.
Q:So we can expect the cow elk leh to be downsized/removed.
A:Yes, I think people underestimate the impact of cats on our ungulate population and it seems like there’s no shortage of them.
I have been encouraging hunters to increase the female cougar harvest. Same thing for bears, especially when it comes to impacts on neonate calves and fawns.
Travalanche
04-18-2018, 09:43 AM
Some Info that may be of interest:
Q:
Hearing some people talk about region 4s populations being way lower than anticipated.
Is the population really down to approx 6000.
How did that happen? Some mentioned that the estimate was 15-20k.
Hoping for some clarity.
Thank you.
A:
Hi, the elk survey we completed this winter is for the East Kootenay Trench (MUs 4-02 to 4-04, 4-20 to 4-22, 4-24 to 4-26) and the estimate is going to be about 6800 elk. The previous estimate in 2008 was 14,000 elk but this was more than the habitat could support so populations were reduced from 2009-2013. Cow harvest is minimal now and we had pretty high calf ratios on the survey so I suspect the population is going to rebound.
Q:So we can expect the cow elk leh to be downsized/removed.
A:Yes, I think people underestimate the impact of cats on our ungulate population and it seems like there’s no shortage of them.
I have been encouraging hunters to increase the female cougar harvest. Same thing for bears, especially when it comes to impacts on neonate calves and fawns.
Who was this from?
Bugle M In
04-18-2018, 12:53 PM
Some Info that may be of interest:
Q:
Hearing some people talk about region 4s populations being way lower than anticipated.
Is the population really down to approx 6000.
How did that happen? Some mentioned that the estimate was 15-20k.
Hoping for some clarity.
Thank you.
A:
Hi, the elk survey we completed this winter is for the East Kootenay Trench (MUs 4-02 to 4-04, 4-20 to 4-22, 4-24 to 4-26) and the estimate is going to be about 6800 elk. The previous estimate in 2008 was 14,000 elk but this was more than the habitat could support so populations were reduced from 2009-2013. Cow harvest is minimal now and we had pretty high calf ratios on the survey so I suspect the population is going to rebound.
Q:So we can expect the cow elk leh to be downsized/removed.
A:Yes, I think people underestimate the impact of cats on our ungulate population and it seems like there’s no shortage of them.
I have been encouraging hunters to increase the female cougar harvest. Same thing for bears, especially when it comes to impacts on neonate calves and fawns.
I have no idea who this is from, but it is my suspicion that they are "very correct" with everything above that was stated.
I know some will "disagree about the cat thing", but I have experienced that they are around a lot more then ever before where I spend my time hunting.
As for the LEH, I haven't even looked yet, but, it makes sense if they reduced it to 1, and by doing this, avoid those fools in
Victoria, so that's a really "good idea".
I do agree however, that the herds need to rebound, so we need as many cows as we can get, so, basically stopping the cow leh is something I support.
As for seeing elk by the highways, I am not surprised at all.
It isn't even an elk issue, as I am seeing this with deer and you name it, in a lot of areas of BC.
Personally, I think they are doing this more now due to avoiding Preds (hanging close to humans instead).
Unfortunately, by having that zone x, we basically culled off a big chunk of those elk herds, as they just weren't returning back to the high country come spring.
Hopefully, with some of the fires we had, and basically getting rid of the LEH, and hopefully there are some individuals putting in their own time targeting the preds, we may get to see these elk up in the region come back.
Keeping fingers crossed.
kootenaihunter
04-18-2018, 01:09 PM
Some info I'm sure many of you've seen....
2017/2018 Season
R4 Cougar Hunter Harvest - 108 39F 69M
R4 Cougar Incidental Harvest - 24 11F 12M 1U
R4 Wolf Hunter Harvest - 40 26M 14F
R4 Wolf Trapper Harvest - 54 30M 23F 1U Incidental 6
Lots of cats being killed, so they're not scarce! Only 40 wolves killed by hunters, 100 in total versus 132 cats. Of course, this is only reported, I'm sure there were a few dogs shot and left.
Cats are easy...all you need are good dogs and a fresh track compared to wolves where if you used dogs, you would just be feeding the wolves.
I am interested in the reasoning behind the slaughter of elk and deer because the habitat could not sustain them. Would that be because we have destroyed/removed a good portion of the habitat they used to have??
kootenaihunter
04-18-2018, 02:12 PM
I am interested in the reasoning behind the slaughter of elk and deer because the habitat could not sustain them. Would that be because we have destroyed/removed a good portion of the habitat they used to have??
I think it could mean that herds start residing in farm and ranch land, not necessarily not enough habitat, but I'm speculating.
I think it could mean that herds start residing in farm and ranch land, not necessarily not enough habitat, but I'm speculating.
We have been seeing that trend for a number of years - more game within the city limits than out. Cranbrook, Kimberly, Grand Forks, Christina Lake,....the list goes on. Predators, especially wolves, won't follow them there. Couple of weeks ago I saw a few dozen elk right in Canmore. they are safe there. Didn't see another animal anywhere from there to Radium, another sanctuary town.
huntingfamily
04-18-2018, 05:24 PM
Some Info that may be of interest:
Q:
Hearing some people talk about region 4s populations being way lower than anticipated.
Is the population really down to approx 6000.
How did that happen? Some mentioned that the estimate was 15-20k.
Hoping for some clarity.
Thank you.
A:
Hi, the elk survey we completed this winter is for the East Kootenay Trench (MUs 4-02 to 4-04, 4-20 to 4-22, 4-24 to 4-26) and the estimate is going to be about 6800 elk. The previous estimate in 2008 was 14,000 elk but this was more than the habitat could support so populations were reduced from 2009-2013. Cow harvest is minimal now and we had pretty high calf ratios on the survey so I suspect the population is going to rebound.
Q:So we can expect the cow elk leh to be downsized/removed.
A:Yes, I think people underestimate the impact of cats on our ungulate population and it seems like there’s no shortage of them.
I have been encouraging hunters to increase the female cougar harvest. Same thing for bears, especially when it comes to impacts on neonate calves and fawns.
Whereas it can be difficult for most hunters to get after cougars and wolves, I think we can play a role by buying a black bear tag or two each spring and pursuing them.
Almost all MU's in BC have 2 bears/year limits for a reason. They play a larger role than some realize.
I sure enjoy it anyways.
Who was this from?
Yes would be interesting to know, looks like could be from FD but there is some one else that comes to mind as well.
Some info I'm sure many of you've seen....
2017/2018 Season
R4 Cougar Hunter Harvest - 108 39F 69M
R4 Cougar Incidental Harvest - 24 11F 12M 1U
R4 Wolf Hunter Harvest - 40 26M 14F
R4 Wolf Trapper Harvest - 54 30M 23F 1U Incidental 6
Lots of cats being killed, so they're not scarce! Only 40 wolves killed by hunters, 100 in total versus 132 cats. Of course, this is only reported, I'm sure there were a few dogs shot and left.
Why would there be a few dogs shot and left, is it legal to shoot them and leave them.
charlie_horse
04-18-2018, 07:18 PM
Why would there be a few dogs shot and left, is it legal to shoot them and leave them.
Probably wounded and couldn't track...stop.asking stupid ass rhetorical questions. You know exactly why that would happen, if it ever did. It's speculation.at it's best on both parts.
Probably wounded and couldn't track...stop.asking stupid ass rhetorical questions. You know exactly why that would happen, if it ever did. It's speculation.at it's best on both parts.
Sorry don't know why things would be shot and left, it wasn't said they were wounded and couldn't track.
HarryToolips
04-18-2018, 09:22 PM
Some Info that may be of interest:
Q:
Hearing some people talk about region 4s populations being way lower than anticipated.
Is the population really down to approx 6000.
How did that happen? Some mentioned that the estimate was 15-20k.
Hoping for some clarity.
Thank you.
A:
Hi, the elk survey we completed this winter is for the East Kootenay Trench (MUs 4-02 to 4-04, 4-20 to 4-22, 4-24 to 4-26) and the estimate is going to be about 6800 elk. The previous estimate in 2008 was 14,000 elk but this was more than the habitat could support so populations were reduced from 2009-2013. Cow harvest is minimal now and we had pretty high calf ratios on the survey so I suspect the population is going to rebound.
Q:So we can expect the cow elk leh to be downsized/removed.
A:Yes, I think people underestimate the impact of cats on our ungulate population and it seems like there’s no shortage of them.
I have been encouraging hunters to increase the female cougar harvest. Same thing for bears, especially when it comes to impacts on neonate calves and fawns.
Thanks for the info, assuming it's from someone in the MOE such as a regional biologist...let's hope they're on the upswing..
dapesche
04-18-2018, 10:53 PM
Thanks for the info, assuming it's from someone in the MOE such as a regional biologist...let's hope they're on the upswing..
Correct. Info from the ministry.
Correct. Info from the ministry.
Could you say who in the ministry said this, you can send me a message if you like.
Thanks.
dapesche
04-19-2018, 09:11 AM
LBM,
I am going to leave the specific details out of this. I have pried many biologists for information over the last year and in general the response has been quite poor.
I met a couple local biologist and they have been great in regards to information. The last thing I'd want to have happen is for them to get bombarded with inquiries and then shut down like some of the other folks have.
The details provided by Dapesche are commonly understood by many in the area. I wouldn't suggest that a single person/source is the only source of the information.
Fisher-Dude
04-19-2018, 09:18 AM
LBM,
I am going to leave the specific details out of this. I have pried many biologists for information over the last year and in general the response has been quite poor.
I met a couple local biologist and they have been great in regards to information. The last thing I'd want to have happen is for them to get bombarded with inquiries and then shut down like some of the other folks have.
Wise move. Personally cultivating relationships with ministry staff in all areas of government takes time and effort, and trust in those relationships is earned as a result.
If others are too lazy to foster their own relationships, or want to undermine what you've accomplished, it's best to take the route you've chosen. Not all people on this forum want the same outcome as you.
LBM,
I am going to leave the specific details out of this. I have pried many biologists for information over the last year and in general the response has been quite poor.
I met a couple local biologist and they have been great in regards to information. The last thing I'd want to have happen is for them to get bombarded with inquiries and then shut down like some of the other folks have.
If you don't want to say that is fine, I have talked to many as well, some with different opinions then you have stated, or at least that is what they said.
On the topic of cats and your comment that they say it seems like there is no shortage, I would ask how they would come up with that, there basic answer is they don't no what is out there, so I would ask why they think there is no shortage, there basic answer is that is what they are told by the hunters, when asked what hunters they say the deer hunters.
So this is how decisions are made, not on science, not on studys or data not on input by those that are out there just on emotion. There is lots of people out there that no cat populations are down in many MUs, Bios included. And yes I no that it shows the mortality on there collared deer is higher by cats but that's what happens when you take there food source away (whitetail) they have to eat something, would also be interesting to see what number of those collared deer are relocated town deer. Lots of variables go into why things happen, but you actually have to be out there to see it.
Little confused by the conversation. Lions have to be CI'd so they have 100% reporting. Wolves, no CI and no mandatory reporting. Not a lot of hunters are randomly chosen for the wolf harvest questionare. But by the hunter data they are saying cougars are a much bigger problem then wolves? The math doesn't add up for me.
"No Choke"Lord Walsingham
04-19-2018, 10:33 PM
Anti Cougar hunting adovcate in the midst of this thread, some always want less hunting - http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?133148-Cougar-Bag-Limits-Regional-Provincial-and-MU-s-MU-Clusters
As an aside, I've been selected for Wolf harvest questionnaire for the past two years consecutively.
Fisher-Dude came through with what I figure to be the correct answer in post #2 above.
Little confused by the conversation. Lions have to be CI'd so they have 100% reporting. Wolves, no CI and no mandatory reporting. Not a lot of hunters are randomly chosen for the wolf harvest questionare. But by the hunter data they are saying cougars are a much bigger problem then wolves? The math doesn't add up for me.
Lots of variables involved as I mentioned dana, but there talking Region 4 here, page 21 of the regs.
boxhitch
04-20-2018, 06:01 AM
But by the hunter data they are saying cougars are a much bigger problem then wolves? The math doesn't add up for me. Thats not the way I read it, nothing close.
comprehension problem maybe
boblly1
04-20-2018, 07:23 AM
Good luck with the island elk draw. I am a resident and have been trying for the last 50 years with no success. But i guess there is still hope right. So if you get a draw let me know as i could walk you or draw you a map into a herd bull any given day of the week. as see them on a regular basis just can`t shoot one.
Rackmastr
04-20-2018, 08:01 AM
Good luck with the island elk draw. I am a resident and have been trying for the last 50 years with no success. But i guess there is still hope right. So if you get a draw let me know as i could walk you or draw you a map into a herd bull any given day of the week. as see them on a regular basis just can`t shoot one.
Then where the heck should I apply???? haha.
Always a bit of a guess for a Kootenay guy like me applying for island elk. Half the fun of something 'new' though.
cassiarkid
04-20-2018, 05:36 PM
I actually got the 1-10C draw a few years ago and ended up taking a respectable bull, and I also got the West Kootenays Elk draw before they opened it right up, and took a nice bull, so I have been lucky! So I figure if I apply for the Roosevelt draw again, I might get it in 10-20 years, fingers crossed!!!
cheers
I actually got the 1-10C draw a few years ago and ended up taking a respectable bull, and I also got the West Kootenays Elk draw before they opened it right up, and took a nice bull, so I have been lucky! So I figure if I apply for the Roosevelt draw again, I might get it in 10-20 years, fingers crossed!!!
cheers
West Kootenay LEH bull elk draws, some great times back then to bad they opened it up.
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