Sleeping Bags

[Muledeercrazy2]

Hi, Is anyone up to speed on the actual performance of the new waterproof down bags with DWR outer fabric compared to the traditional favorites, ie; WM, valandre, FF, tiaga, etc? I am considering the mountain hardware ghost whisperer and the kuiu bags and can't find much good info online.

Thanks in advance.

I'm sold on down bags and have a couple good ones, and have never had any issues with much use. That said, if the industry is changing I don't want to buy a non hydrophobic down bag for use on the coast for late season blackmail.

[howa1500]

waterproof down is amazing stuff, and all the new stuff is going that way.

Its like extra insurance. I think in our climate and the pacific northwest it's quite worth it, especially if you don't have the ability to dry it

[bigwhiteys]

I have a Valandre Bloody Mary and a Mountain Hardware Banshee. Both down. The Banshee has a water repellent outer and beads water off no issue. The Valandre is more of a water "resistant" coating. It will eventually get wet. The Valandre is a tight fitting bag but also only 2lbs if I recall.

[twoSevenO]

I've had a waterproof bag since 2005 .... the very first one made, if i recall correctly. Mountain Hardwear Spectre SL. the waterproof material and construction definitely added a little bit to its weight compared to some lightweight models out there with the same -7 temp rating. I'm sure things have come a long way since then, though.

On one hand i feel like i really haven't needed the waterproofness, on the other i feel like the extra tough construction to make it waterproof has helped it remain working well to this day whereas some of hte ultralight models would have fallen apart by now.

Overall, i'm happy with it. I can see it lasting another 10 years.

FYI .... the Ghost Wisperer bag by Mountain Harwear is NOT waterproof. I noticed this is in your considerations, but in case you missed this on their site, it is NOT a waterproof bag!

[604redneck]

I got a chance to try out one of the new kuiu bags. They are unreal but imo a little high on price

[twoSevenO]

I got a chance to try out one of the new kuiu bags. They are unreal but imo a little high on price

What's special about them? I'm always skeptical of clothing companies expanding into gear. I guess i question whether they're just buying someone else's sleeping bag and putting their name on it. I know their tents had their share of problems from what I hear.

I did see their sleeping bag prices, and you're right, they are high.

[albravo2]

I really like the idea of a waterproof bag. Sooner or later something goes sideways and you end up with a pool of water in your tent.

I look forward to hearing about performance after a season or two of use.

[Busterpayton54]

I really like the idea of a waterproof bag. Sooner or later something goes sideways and you end up with a pool of water in your tent.

I look forward to hearing about performance after a season or two of use.

what happens if the pool comes from inside the blanket?

Not gonna lie, had a few too many beers and it happened one time...
let me tell ya, it was a very rare occurrence where I was one of the early risers, with the rest of the gang chuckling as they crawled out of their tents, there I am drying my bag by the fire...

[twoSevenO]

LOL !!!!

Toilet in a dream is always a trap!

[Muledeercrazy2]

Lol, that's a different take on the condensation inside the bag issue..

Thanks for the insight on MH twoseven0, I did think it was DWR on the fabric. That's the appeal of kuiu, treated down and DWR outside. If I saw WM making a bag like this I would feel confident, but so far I think the other options are Eddie Bauer and thermarest, neither would inspire a ot of confidence based on my knowledge and online info.

[Muledeercrazy2]

No other feedback on kuiu bags, gab, thermarest, Eddie Bauer, or other hydrophobic down with DWR covers? Thanks again.

[twoSevenO]

Lol, that's a different take on the condensation inside the bag issue..

Thanks for the insight on MH twoseven0, I did think it was DWR on the fabric. That's the appeal of kuiu, treated down and DWR outside. If I saw WM making a bag like this I would feel confident, but so far I think the other options are Eddie Bauer and thermarest, neither would inspire a ot of confidence based on my knowledge and online info.

Remember, DWR and waterproof are two completely different things.
DWR is simply a type of coating that is used on non-waterproof materials so that they are more water replant. You get that beading effect like a freshly waxed car. But, just like the car wax, the DWR will wear out over time.

Waterproof bags, like a gore-tex jacket, will have tape over the seams and will use a waterproof/breathable fabric for the construction. It should remain waterproof forever. (Materials do break down over time, but we're talking years and years)

[Muledeercrazy2]

Right, so you think a WM bag with gore is still as good of an option as anything?

[Fixit]

on the coast, down is great on the first night, second and third night the down gets wetter and wetter, and youll be cold. after several down bags. jackets ive gone to synthetics for the rainy coast

[Muledeercrazy2]

I have never had an issue on the west coast with down as long as I had a good tent with ventilation. I bought a nemo losi storm 2p that weighs in a bit under 4 lbs. (If I remember right) about 9 years ago and it has kept me and bag dry in some nasty weather. I swap baselayers before sleeping if I have to. I get very minor condensation on the tent walls sometimes, but it's not been a problem. I use the tent solo hunting for blacktail so I have lots of room.

I did make the mistake of using a bivy sack years ago, not knowing anything about your bag needing to breath.

I wouldn't pack a synthetic bag on the coast unless i was thinking more than a long weekend or really bad weather. Totally agree about down outerwear though. I am just looking to replace a bag that was commandeered by wife and dog for a few days and now doesn't seem to belong to me.


[AQUOTE=Fixit;1998825]on the coast, down is great on the first night, second and third night the down gets wetter and wetter, and youll be cold. after several down bags. jackets ive gone to synthetics for the rainy coast[/QUOTE]

[hparrott]

Lol, that's a different take on the condensation inside the bag issue..

Thanks for the insight on MH twoseven0, I did think it was DWR on the fabric. That's the appeal of kuiu, treated down and DWR outside. If I saw WM making a bag like this I would feel confident, but so far I think the other options are Eddie Bauer and thermarest, neither would inspire a ot of confidence based on my knowledge and online info.

The Marmot Helium is worth a look as well. As a 15 degree bag it packs down to just bigger than a nalgene and is filled with down is USA. It's a quality bag and unlike the WM bags it goes on sale. It is a bit wider than the ultralite or Alpinlite WM bags and if you sleep on your side or toss and turn it isn't as fitted.

[604redneck]

What's special about them? I'm always skeptical of clothing companies expanding into gear. I guess i question whether they're just buying someone else's sleeping bag and putting their name on it. I know their tents had their share of problems from what I hear.

I did see their sleeping bag prices, and you're right, they are high.

I found them to have no cold spots, stayed lofty after a very hard compress and the condensation in the tent didn't penetrate at all. Like I said though it's a high price and if I had to pay full price it would be a tough one.

[twoSevenO]

Right, so you think a WM bag with gore is still as good of an option as anything?

I like tents with lots of mesh on the body. The less condensation the better. So I usually don't have issues with condensation.

Having owned a waterproof bag for 13 years and been perfectly satisfied with it, would I buy it again? ... no.

I think that what you gain in waterproofness has not been outweighed by the fact that the bag is heavier and bulkier due to its waterproof material and construction.

If condensation were an issue I would rather bring a garbage bag and stick the bottom of the bag into it to keep it away from the tent wall if it meant I could have a 1.5lb bag that packs down small.

As mentioned above the Marmot Helium is an excellent bag. It's very good quality and packs down very very small. Excellent bag.

However, I hunt blacktails on day trips. If I was to do multi day trips in mid November for blacktails more often than I hunt the dry country for mulies I think I would stick with my waterproof bag for a piece of mind.

That's how I would make up my mind.

[twoSevenO]

The Marmot Helium is worth a look as well. As a 15 degree bag it packs down to just bigger than a nalgene and is filled with down is USA. It's a quality bag and unlike the WM bags it goes on sale. It is a bit wider than the ultralite or Alpinlite WM bags and if you sleep on your side or toss and turn it isn't as fitted.

Awesome bag. Good recommendation. This bag has been in the marmot lineup for at least 15 years for good reason.

[pg83]

I've had a Kuiu bag for a couple years now, but I can't give a report on how effective the waterproofing is because it's never gotten wet to date. That said, I have been really happy with it.

[mmckimmi]

The Marmot Helium is worth a look as well. As a 15 degree bag it packs down to just bigger than a nalgene and is filled with down is USA. It's a quality bag and unlike the WM bags it goes on sale. It is a bit wider than the ultralite or Alpinlite WM bags and if you sleep on your side or toss and turn it isn't as fitted.

My mother ran this bag for a season, she's a ACMG mountain guide and spends a ton of time in the back country. Found it to be to fragile and wasn't that warm. The zipper ripped off the bag at the top and she had some seam stitching issues. Mind you this was about 8 years ago, so the bags might have changed a bit since then. They're mega light weight and pack down very well though...

[Muledeercrazy2]

Thanks! I don't want to compromise over half a pound and a couple litres of space.


My mother ran this bag for a season, she's a ACMG mountain guide and spends a ton of time in the back country. Found it to be to fragile and wasn't that warm. The zipper ripped off the bag at the top and she had some seam stitching issues. Mind you this was about 8 years ago, so the bags might have changed a bit since then. They're mega light weight and pack down very well though...

[twoSevenO]

My mother ran this bag for a season, she's a ACMG mountain guide and spends a ton of time in the back country. Found it to be to fragile and wasn't that warm. The zipper ripped off the bag at the top and she had some seam stitching issues. Mind you this was about 8 years ago, so the bags might have changed a bit since then. They're mega light weight and pack down very well though...

I can believe that. It's an ultralight bag .... some durability sacrifices are to be expected when you go ultralight.

[hparrott]

Ya I wouldn't be happy if that happened that's for sure. The bag has a long history of great reviews and I haven't noticed a problem with quality. Each to their own

[Jrax]

The kuiu bags are great - very light, warm and high quality down. i bought it specifically for backcountry overnight hunts and am very happy with it.

I accidentally tested the waterproof by hanging a jacket i didn't realize had snow/ice on it above the foot of the bag. Hours later i saw a pool of water sitting on the bag. I dumped the water and checked to see if any moisture had seeped in - it was bone dry.

Price is high

[mmckimmi]

The kuiu bags are great - very light, warm and high quality down. i bought it specifically for backcountry overnight hunts and am very happy with it.

I accidentally tested the waterproof by hanging a jacket i didn't realize had snow/ice on it above the foot of the bag. Hours later i saw a pool of water sitting on the bag. I dumped the water and checked to see if any moisture had seeped in - it was bone dry.

Price is high

Which of the three bags did you get? And how well do they pack down? I'll be due for a new bag next season or so and am pretty interested in these after doing a lot of research about the down they use and the coatings. However they're insanely expensive...

[pg83]

Which of the three bags did you get? And how well do they pack down? I'll be due for a new bag next season or so and am pretty interested in these after doing a lot of research about the down they use and the coatings. However they're insanely expensive...

Wife has mine currently, but when she is back next week I will take some pics with measurements if you like. I have the mid range 15(-9)degree bag.

[Ohwildwon]

Here is some more food for thought..

https://sectionhiker.com/pros-cons-waterproof-down/

This post is hilarious!

Why do people buy grass-fed beef? Because it’s not full of hormones and anti-biotics.
Any danger of treated down gassing off and mutating your chromosomes? I wonder…

[Jrax]

I have the -9C bag, long. I bought the long bag because of wide shoulders and the predecessor MEC bag was a bit snug, 1lb heavier and didn't compress as well. I have lots of room especially in the legs. The bag packs very small, its about 4 volumetric litres. You can further compress if needed but I try not to. I was worried about breathability but that has not been an issue, loft is also excellent.

I didn't shop around as much as I should have but with work and kids I don't have time so for me its easier to go with quality brands that I know whether its hunting clothes, guns, sleeping bags, packs etc. There are probably lots out there that compare for cheaper or similar price.

[oldkoot]

I Have had a Gore tex downfill since the mid 1980's. Canadian made by Taiga works. My sweety has one as well. Many years were spent in a tent from April till October. These bags are still usable but getting long in the tooth ...like me. Awesome product. They were called barrel bags and the roominess was amazing compared to a mummy. I believe they are still in business, and if I'm ever looking I will be checking them out for a replacement.

[klondikemike]

The last two bags we bought were the cloud nine in waterproof shell from Taiga. Every time we used them they worked as good as we hoped. The last time when we woke up the tent was sweated up frosty inside and the bags were completely dry. The people on the phone were nice to deal with too.

[JPG]

How about Enlightened Equipment or Katabatic Gear. They’re kinda Quilt/Bag hybrids and pretty sure the down is treated
Also check out the REI Magma for an affordable ultralight alternative.

[pg83]

Kuiu 15F/-9C bag packs down to 8x8x15 inches and weighs 2lb 2 5/8 oz. according to my measurements at home.