Best Elk Call Mouth Diaphragm

[325]

Which is the "best" or "easiest" mouth diaphragm available??

[Bugle M In]

http://www.hunterspec.com/product/elk-arsenal-tone-trough-elk-diaphragm-4-pack

I prefer the 2.5 myself, if u can find them.
The plastic plate on top makes positioning in the mouth easier.
Like them way more then the Primos brand that look similar.

[todbartell]

easiest. Single layer reeds. Try to find one with a dome or pallet plate on the top

[ryanszeredi]

I found the primos blue with the dome very easy to make the whole range of sounds. But have gone to the Rocky Mountain elk101 single reed now. It's a little soft for me but the range of calls is great

[Sundown]

Agreed. Double reed is very hard to learn with. Single reed is better. Once you get the hang of the single i find better tones with the double. Still flub it from time to time though.

[Greenthumbed]

http://www.hunterspec.com/product/elk-arsenal-tone-trough-elk-diaphragm-4-pack

I prefer the 2.5 myself, if u can find them.
The plastic plate on top makes positioning in the mouth easier.
Like them way more then the Primos brand that look similar.

Ive got a set of 4 Wayne Carlton's as well. I like the triple the most for big bull bugles. Definitely sounds deep and throaty. It's not the easiest to use, though. I use the single for cow calls. Recently, I've been practising with the double for both bull bugles and cow calls as an all in one.
I haven't used the 2.5 much. I was wondering why you favoured it over the others?

[porthunter]

Big fan of the Rocky Mountain game calls, personally use the "Elk101 Allstar" for cow calls and small bugles.

Find I'm able to get a bigger bugle out of the "The closer" double reed. Also just throwing it out there, use them with the Bully Bull Extreme Tube and love it.

[Bugle M In]

Ive got a set of 4 Wayne Carlton's as well. I like the triple the most for big bull bugles. Definitely sounds deep and throaty. It's not the easiest to use, though. I use the single for cow calls. Recently, I've been practising with the double for both bull bugles and cow calls as an all in one.
I haven't used the 2.5 much. I was wondering why you favoured it over the others?

I guess I have bugled for so long now with mouth diaphragms, since probably '83, that I find the single reed a little too "soft" for me, and I tend to over blow on it.
I also find I cant get all the "octaves range" out of the single diapragms.
And the triples do make one sound big, and that's not what any hunter wants to sound like.
But, I find the 2.5 has the best combination, you can hit all the "notes", you can make it raspy if you want, you can just
hit a "high whistle", or growl.
IT just allows me the greatest "flexibility" in one mouthpiece, to sound like whatever sized bull I want.
Chuckling works with it as well, something I find I need to be able to do, and I do it best with a multi layered reed over a single reed.
The Wayne Carltons or Carlton Calls, (which once were the Hunter Specialties) make solid mouth pieces, and last me longer then any other.
I have not tried Buglin Bull mouth reeds as of yet, but I do like their Elk Tube Call/s.
I actually carry one of the their tubes for "Long Range Calling" when I am out there, and use the mouthpiece it came with.
But, once I get a bull to respond, it's the 2.5 (or 2) that I go with, and always try to sound not as deep as him, nor as low as him at first.
And then, you just try to match up his sounds...imitate his calls right back at him, or whichever sounds seems to get the most out of him in responses.
So, the 2.5 is just the one reed I like to have more then any other.
And yes, I still also use a single for cow calls. and have it with me as well.

[Greenthumbed]

Thanks for the tips. I appreciate that.
So, what you are saying is that the triple makes you sound too big of a bull and might intimidate the bull you are trying to call? Interesting! I think I'll dig out my 2.5 and start practising with it.

[todbartell]

I feel in some situations when you're in tight to a bull with a hot cow or two, if you don't sound like a worthy threat to the bull, you won't get him to come in. I don't believe you can overpower a bull with your bugle, although using the wrong sounds will shut him up. In early season, if a bull bugles on his own with a long drawn out, high pitched bugle, and you hammer back with a growly dominant bugle with hard grunts on the end, you will have very limited success

[skidderman]

I am having pretty good luck with the Rocky Mtn Momma, (yellow) as well as the red. In addition I just ordered two different ones from Wapati river and two more from Phelps in the US. Going to be doing some testing.

[Bugle M In]

I feel in some situations when you're in tight to a bull with a hot cow or two, if you don't sound like a worthy threat to the bull, you won't get him to come in. I don't believe you can overpower a bull with your bugle, although using the wrong sounds will shut him up. In early season, if a bull bugles on his own with a long drawn out, high pitched bugle, and you hammer back with a growly dominant bugle with hard grunts on the end, you will have very limited success

Yup.
IT can be a little perplexing to why sometimes a lone bull has no issue coming in, and another acts like he is, and then heads off?
Hard to know whether he has cows elsewhere, and decided to wonder off to a wallow for some time during hot days or what?
Reminds me of one bull, who responded hard, chuckled etc, was coming in, and then off he went on a tangent elsewhere?
Happened 3 times during the week, but the 3rd time, I decided to "hunt him down", and was successful, but again, he was trying to pull off the same stunt, and I never some evidence of cows nearby, and he was more then big enough to be a contender?
I try not to locate call using a "big bull" sound, either high whistle, or, a call that has about a run of 4 notes, but I try not to get to
"raspy" off the bat.
Sometimes I will just do the odd high note, and a few chuckles.
Always with a cow call here and there, before and after bugling to locate.
Then, if a bull responds, that when you have to see what he does?
Does he leave cause he has cows, or does he feel safe, far enough away?
If he isn't showing any signs of coming in, that when hunting with a partner, who can move silently in that direction is a big
plus, while I sit back a call, and hopefully my partner can get in there.
Trying to match calls, and sounding as big, but not bigger, is what I try now.
Believe me, I have been told that I sound too big, on many occasions, so it's a work in progress even after all these years,
but I am getting there.
The 2.5 I find is just the "most versatile" reed you can use....atleast for me.
Carltons are good quality, the latex is really good, but I still end up going thru 2 of them in 6-7 days of hunting.
And I usually have a cow reed, a 2 reed and a 3 reed packed just in case.
And a couple of cow mouth calls, the primos one, that looks a little like the hoochie mama, but is a mouth call...love that one.
And one from bugling bulls, which sounds good as well.
Just depends what happens, and if it's slow, I try the different calls, instead of just sticking to the 2.5 and single reed.

[Greenthumbed]

Excellent advice! Thanks guys!
I've been working my way through Corey Jacobson's Elk101 course this winter with hopes of getting into some elk this up coming season. Every little tidbit helps!
BTW, if anyone is thinking about taking the elk101 course, I'd say do it. It's only $100 and well worth it in my mind.

[Bugle M In]

I think the very 1st video I watched, was a VHS of Larry D Jones, and Wayne Carlton hunting together.
Met Larry a few times....he sure loved his elk hunting, and I give him credit for my success, and really bringing
Elk hunting to the public to learn...IMO.
Since then, things sure have advanced.

Now if someone could come up with a bugle that you use mouth diaphragms, but the bugle itself could carry a little of
that "flutie" sound, as well as that "deep resonance" that you just cant do like a "real bull elk".
Amplified sounding is the best way to describe it.

But yes, with lots of practice and desire, one can come close to sounding like the real thing.
God knows how many times I had hunters come into my calls, or sit there waiting for me, and having a hunting partner on the
other side of the river, going up to these folks and telling them that it was me, not a real bull, only to have them tell my partner
that he was BS'ing them...lol.
Only once did I go into one call, and the call was also coming to me.
Turned out we were both hunters, and we laughed.
Turns out he won a few celling competitions over the years.
Anyways, he showed me his bugle, which was basically an old corrugated radiator hose from some old truck made years ago.
The soft rubber helped get rid of some of that plastic, tinnie sound that one gets from those plastic bugles.
Plus you can stuff it in your pocket, as it is soft and flexible etc.
Definitely something to have when a bull gets closer, and if you are still bugling at that point.
Mind you, if you get him on a string, just cow call, but don't do too much.
They know "exactly where you are".
The lack of calling at that point gets them coming in closer, so why muff it up.

[Greenthumbed]

I use a corrugated tube to call with. It seem to work for me. I can't stuff it in my pocket though. It about 2' long. I think it might have been a drain line for a dishwasher or something. I have it attached to a leather lace that I throw over my shoulder and carry the tube under my arm or strapped to my pack. It seems more packable than one of those bugle type things and it sounds pretty good I think.

[todbartell]

every year my bugle tube gets bigger and bigger lol

The Elk101 course is very good. Corey's tactics lean towards the aggressive end of things, but lots of good info to be gathered there.

[Brambles]

JP...The Phelps Game Calls AMP frame diaphrams are the best diaphram going....

[todbartell]

I have a few of the AMP, they're good.

[HighCountryBC]

Have ziplock bags full of diaphragms from over the years. Pretty much stick with stuff from Rocky Mountain now. Phelps diaphragms definitely occupy some space in those bags too but I pretty much stick with 2-3 calls while there's a bunch that end up not getting used.

Single-reed diaphragms are definitely the easiest to learn on and most versatile. You can make any sound you need with them. The triple-reed "herd bull" calls I find are junk for the most part. I've used diaphragms for a very long time, can make every sound I want, and I only use single-reeds. YMMV.

[Fisher-Dude]

every year my bugle tube gets bigger and bigger lol


Mrs Bartell is laughing out loud at that statement.

I'm thinking it's time to turn back the clock and use my dad's old handmade calls. Either the traditional bamboo or the more advanced aluminum pipe.

Elk don't bugle back these days to the fancy new shit, so might as well go back 35 - 40 years to when we'd have bulls charging in to these old relics. We killed way more elk back then than we do now!


https://i.imgflip.com/27i064.jpg

[Bugle M In]

^^^^^ Ironic you say that.
A few years back, we had a bull that was in the thick stuff/ laying in a wallow we knew was in there.
He would only respond to the "wood flute" my dad still likes to carry around with him, for those "what the heck times".
Who knows, might be the "high pitch" that they like?

[todbartell]

Elk don't bugle back these days to the fancy new shit, so might as well go back 35 - 40 years to when we'd have bulls charging in to these old relics. We killed way more elk back then than we do now!


maybe has something to do with your bugling from the pickup

[Fisher-Dude]

maybe has something to do with your bugling from the pickup

With the way the grizzly bears come in to my elk calls these days, bugling from the pickup is the only safe spot on the mountain! :shock:

[The Hermit]

I wish I could make diaphragm calls work. I've tried and tried and tried and the best I can do is gag till I puke. My dentist hates me, he damn near has to medicate me to get past the gag reflex. I can't even use the Primos blue reed calls very well and all my hunting buddies laugh their asses off

[Bugle M In]

I wish I could make diaphragm calls work. I've tried and tried and tried and the best I can do is gag till I puke. My dentist hates me, he damn near has to medicate me to get past the gag reflex. I can't even use the Primos blue reed calls very well and all my hunting buddies laugh their asses off

First off, good thing you ain't a chick!:tongue:

You could try the bugles from Buglin Bulls.
They sort are a "hybrid" between reed calls (as the insert piece is similar to the diaphragm).
The mouthpiece portion has a piece that your "bite on" to apply pressure to the reed to make different nots.
Sounds pretty damn good, and might be the best one for you, considering your issues:p

[Bugle M In]

For sure about GBears coming in....definitely a way to hunt gbear....ahhhhmm, I mean, view gbear.

[358mag]

http://i65.tinypic.com/15ezby9.jpg
My go to Elk calls. Larry D Jones reed bugle ,old school copper flex bugle and my secret never fail Herter's # 351 Elk Master Call .

[Bugle M In]

^^^^^lets see, my dad is 79, and that's the same gear he has.
Missing the Power Bugle that he has in his arsenal.

[todbartell]

rummaging around in my buddy's Dad's gear room last week looking for something, I came across one of those fluting thin "bugles" - Blew on it and had a chuckle, what a piece of junk :)

[Fisher-Dude]

Larry D is still one of my go to's!

[dana]

http://i65.tinypic.com/15ezby9.jpg
My go to Elk calls. Larry D Jones reed bugle ,old school copper flex bugle and my secret never fail Herter's # 351 Elk Master Call .

I still have that Larry D Jones call and I still use it. The man is a Legend!

[358mag]

rummaging around in my buddy's Dad's gear room last week looking for something, I came across one of those fluting thin "bugles" - Blew on it and had a chuckle, what a piece of junk :)
Maybe a piece of junk , but maybe just try it this season you just might be surprised how good it works .:biggrin:

[358mag]

I still have that Larry D Jones call and I still use it. The man is a Legend!
Yes and his cow call is a bull magnet too .....

[Bugle M In]

Larry Jones sure loved elk hunting...interesting guy, and spoke with him a few times.
I think I still have a vhs of him and wayne carlton, on a hunt, which is what I watched first, and after that, started my
elk hunting endeavor, which bagged me a 6pt on my 2nd season in.
I should try to find some of those rubber pieces for that carlton call (looks a lot like the primos blue rubber caps), as that
call worked great back in the day.
And those wooden flutes, don't kid yourself, they do work.
All that being said though, I still prefer the mouth diaphragm now.
And, it looks like many have suggested the ones with that plastic dome insert built into them.
Whether it be Carlton, Buglin Bulls or other, they do seem to work the best, and easiest, as they sit in your mouth at
just the right position.
Also, I think for some it's a bit comforting, that they may not swallow the thing, like just the plain jane diaphragms of the past.
So, the OP asked whats the easiest...any with the plastic dome, and probably a single or double layer to get you started.
Just don't start practicing on your 1st day of the hunt....IMO.

[Greenthumbed]

Just don't start practicing on your 1st day of the hunt....IMO.

Haha! That's some sound advice (pun intended)! I practice a fair bit and I'm still nervous what might come out on my first call.

[Bugle M In]

Haha! That's some sound advice (pun intended)! I practice a fair bit and I'm still nervous what might come out on my first call.

Don't worry about being perfect....really!
My dad quite often sounds like a young bull elephant....just awful at times to be honest.
I am sure he has scared off some elk in the area, but, he has also managed to bring in bulls as well, regardless of the sounds he
makes.
Actually, sometimes he manages to locate bulls more often then I do?
But, I probably bring them in more times then not compared to him.
In the end, it's a group effort, and time well spent and totally enjoyed amongst ourselves.
Don't forget to take a friend if you can, it's a great way to spend the day or week.

[Fella]

Reviving a dead thread: how do you guys with the diaphragm calls not gag on them? I bought one of the primos elk calls and I just gagging as soon as it’s in my mouth.

[325]

Reviving a dead thread: how do you guys with the diaphragm calls not gag on them? I bought one of the primos elk calls and I just gagging as soon as it’s in my mouth.

I found that too initially, but after a short while I no longer had that impulse. I'm now practicing nearly every day, and it's feeling natural.

[todbartell]

better not use them if they make you gag

[ryanszeredi]

Reviving a dead thread: how do you guys with the diaphragm calls not gag on them? I bought one of the primos elk calls and I just gagging as soon as it’s in my mouth.

i trimmed my first few down to fit better that helped me until i got comfortable with it. Some of the primos ones are pretty small already though. does it have the dome?

[steve-r]

Excellent advice! Thanks guys!
I've been working my way through Corey Jacobson's Elk101 course this winter with hopes of getting into some elk this up coming season. Every little tidbit helps!
BTW, if anyone is thinking about taking the elk101 course, I'd say do it. It's only $100 and well worth it in my mind.
I just finished it. Excellent course!
I'm just learning to call, but getting good results from the Rocky Mtn Contender and the All-star.

[Fella]

i trimmed my first few down to fit better that helped me until i got comfortable with it. Some of the primos ones are pretty small already though. does it have the dome?
Yeah it’s the blue one with the dome. I sound like a dying duck when I use it lol

[Ourea]

No doubt trying to somewhat sound like an elk will get the attention of a suicide 3 yr old or rut crazed bull.

Here's a thought........
You are engaging a very pressure sensitive herd oriented animal.
Being a herd animal there are many, many eyes, noses and ears, constantly on post for anything that trips their radar.

They (cows) are a very vocal animal, communicating with sounds and body language constantly when on the move. We, as hunters, try, and have, exploited elk vocal tendencies into a hunting advantage.

My opinion is that most hunters have unknowingly blown many potential encounters/opportunity by jumping on the bugle and cow calling and alerting elk to your unnatural presence. I can sight numerous first hand examples of sitting on a group of elk at first light looking over a few bulls.
Then...tweedal dee...tweedal dee goes a bugling hunter from below.
All heads pop up from feeding and stare downwards at the source of the sound.
Few stomps....couple barks and away the herd goes.

Thirty minutes later a hunter strolls up surprised to see someone else up there.
Conversation generally goes something like this.......
"where did you come from!?"
"see anything?"

Response....
"nope"

My point - your success on calling elk will grow exponentially when you learn more about elk by being in elk country and observing them without relying on calling for said encounter.

[Ourea]

Getting back to the OP's original question .....
Best mouth diaphram?
The one that fits your mouth comfortably is a good place to start.

Softer latex calls with one or two reeds are easier to learn on.
Softer frames that hold the latex membranes will reduce one's gag reflex
They take less tongue pressure, articulation and control.

Guys that are aggressive buglers have the tendency to prefer a stiff 3 layered membrane diaphram to get the deeper resonance and authentic sound of a mature and agitated bull when combined with a echo chamber/tube.

There is a lot to be said about external latex calls.
No gag reflex.
Softer tones, cow chirps, calf calls, yet you can blast a piercing high pitched bugle that will carry endlessly in calm conditions.

[greybark]

Rough textured frames such as Carltons help prevent sliding around .
Cheers

[dbergen69]

Try the Wapiti Outdoors calls. Very good calls. Made in Grande Prairie. I think Nechako Outdoors carries them or you can order online from the wapiti outdoors website. They have relief cuts in the outside of the reed which seems to help it fit in the mouth better snd the calls are smaller than some others I have tried which helps with the gag reflex.

[zippermouth]

I use a variety of calls, berry x-weave work the best for me. They start out really tightly stretched but once you use it a while it softens up. I find the call to be somewhat like a single reed call as you can get a three toned bugle with relatively little air and tongue pressure, but you can also get a lot of volume when you want to. I can also do decent cow sounds. One thing I do a lot of is blow partial bugles or groans in higher hunted areas. Changes things up to not sound like all the generic calls most guys use.

[Big Mac]

TRAVIS at wapiti river is
great and you phone and he will solve your problem and you order on line great slection the single reed is my preference