Emergency outdoors First aid

[srupp]

hmmmm after a phone call today I started thinking about emergency outdoors first aid..tips and tricks..do and donts..

probably bleeding is the most frequent outdoors mishap...some can be minor..some can be a distraction and some can be life threatening..

the obvious solution ? hunt with a Paramedic..lol

there are some things that might be beneficial...take a first aid course, pack supplies you can and would use..

I am a bit hesitant because human nature being what it is I don't want a laywers subpoena because Steven SAID do this...

throwing this out on any interest ? and how to do it the smart way...for you and me..

cheers

Steven

[caddisguy]

Very smart starting with the legal disclaimer. It is necessary IMHO

I always thought falls and anaphylactic shock would be the big ones (next to heart attacks, stroke and exposure)

Never thought too much about bleeding. I guess it's time to start packing a proper tourniquet rather than assuming we can improvise with a piece of clothing when the time comes.

Good post Steven.

[DarekG]

I recently took an emergency first responder course with a local volunteer fire hall, can't hurt to ask?
The course was insanely in-depth and taught me a lot of things I thought I knew, but actually didn't - Definitely worthwhile. It helped me gather an idea of what I need for an actual back country first aid kit as well.

I know there are specialized wilderness first aid courses as well but I don't fully understand their purpose other than encouraging "adapt and improvise" a bit more.

[Pemby_mess]

If one is younger, I'd definitely reccomend taking the OFA rather than the wilderness or OEC variants. The OFA is more versatile for employment should it ever be needed.

Wilderness courses adapt techniques toward improvisation, don't make some of the basic assumptions a OFA course would, and perhaps focus a little more attention on specific outdoor related maladies/occurences. However the basic protocols are virtually identical, and a pass on an 80hr OFA is at least as valuable as one on an equivalent WFA. OEC i think is actually 120 hrs so it kind of acts like a blend, and if you were never planning on needing it as a work qualification, would probably be the best one to go for as a recreational outdoors person IMO

[Pemby_mess]

hmmmm after a phone call today I started thinking about emergency outdoors first aid..tips and tricks..do and donts..

probably bleeding is the most frequent outdoors mishap...some can be minor..some can be a distraction and some can be life threatening..

the obvious solution ? hunt with a Paramedic..lol

there are some things that might be beneficial...take a first aid course, pack supplies you can and would use..

I am a bit hesitant because human nature being what it is I don't want a laywers subpoena because Steven SAID do this...

throwing this out on any interest ? and how to do it the smart way...for you and me..

cheers

Steven

retirement career? :smile:

[albravo2]

Great idea Steven. Lots of bushcraft info on this site but not a ton of survival first aid.

We carry quik-clot and crazy glue. Haven't had to use it. I have quik-clot in my belt when I'm cutting firewood too.

[scoutlt1]

I've held my Level 2 certification for over 20 years. I never challenge the test. I always retake the course. I also organize and push for a refresher course with or without an instructor in between courses.

What scares me the most, is someone taking a one day First Aid course, and then thinking they are good to go.

Practice, proper mind-set, more practice, and even more practice (and experience) is what makes someone prepared to deal with a medical emergency. Especially one that occurs in the back country.

IF you are interested, in any way, in being the "go to" person when and if there is a medical situation, then take a course. Take another course. Arrange for practice sessions. See if you can sit in on a Level 2 or 3 course for a day. Talk to your hunting partners if they are willing to chip in for (and learn how to use) an AED. Head down to your local BC Ambulance detachment and ask if you can go for a "ride along" every now and then. Inquire at work if they need another FA attendant because you are willing to step up (most will/should pay for your time and the course). Get involved with your work's Health and Safety Committee.

Prepare as much as you can if it's something you are ready to do. Don't just take a one day course and buy a fanny pack first aid kit and think you are prepared for a femoral arterial bleed, a heart attack, or an epileptic seizure during your next hunting trip.

If you are interested in saving someone's life, the best tools you can have are the means and knowledge on how to use them.

Just my two cents, and I stand to be corrected.

Good thread Steven....thx

[HarryToolips]

If one is younger, I'd definitely reccomend taking the OFA rather than the wilderness or OEC variants. The OFA is more versatile for employment should it ever be needed.

Wilderness courses adapt techniques toward improvisation, don't make some of the basic assumptions a OFA course would, and perhaps focus a little more attention on specific outdoor related maladies/occurences. However the basic protocols are virtually identical, and a pass on an 80hr OFA is at least as valuable as one on an equivalent WFA. OEC i think is actually 120 hrs so it kind of acts like a blend, and if you were never planning on needing it as a work qualification, would probably be the best one to go for as a recreational outdoors person IMO
I agree, I have ofa level 2, intense but good course....very good for the resume as well....

[srupp]

Lol sorry..i was getting so busy with questions on fly in hunts..i wasn't answering the phone..result..folks started dropping by cuz our phone wasn't being answered..lol great visit with great folks..

Over the 38 year carreer..far more heart attacks from fishermen than hunters..sudden excitement ?
Almost every hunter has cut himself..it just location, intent, severity..a lot of bleeding can be stopped..however ALL bleeding will eventually stop.cuts can be from opening soup cans, gutting a moose or removing a broad head. .however they can also be falling and fracturing a femur and the sharp bones cutting tissue and veins, arteries from the inside as they exit..compound #.

The OFA" is a GREAT course..however as pointed out you must, have to adapt the principles..as its difficult to bring a 30# first aid kit on a flight, horseback...if it's not with you..it's no damn good.
We look at the end goal..ie stop the bleeding..there are principles to guide us, some absolutes. ..but the end result is the same keep that blood going round and round.
A # ankle may result in blood loss, however that blood loss may pool stretch the tissues and result in loss of distal circulation. .result is loss of the foot?
On the other hand a disruption in the arterial wall may result in massive squirting blood loss..requiring significant direct pressure, position of the patient laying down..less pressure..and even use of proximal pressure points.eventually blood loss will mean less pressure..which results in more success in your TX. Loss of blood is mucho" importanto" it carries the 02" throughout your body and is what allows the brain to function..loss of sufficient blood will render the patient unconscious. .but some times the results of hypovolemia"..are not immediately apparant..confusion and logical mistakes. .may wander off and vote NDP..

I will consider your suggestions on how to get this out there so myself nor this site takes any heat.
I would like to use my knowledge, experience as a Paramedic..and hunter to help everyone both be better prepared and react more appropriately. .we obviously have lots of experienced EMA..OFA...and d there are Tim..John..etc Advanced life Support members on here tremendously well above my level..
Cheers
Steven

[srupp]

Hmmm my neighbor..great guy Peter..he shot a good buck, dragged it back to truck only to suffer a massive terminal heart attack..and died..
Also big bore 14. .to the ground..and young man in his prime..i wasn't that far away..ands the crow flies. .but might as well been on the moon..whatever the cause..sometimes we can make a difference...and regardless of the outcome..it is always better to have tried to have been prepared and then do your best..one day it may be you needing the help.
Steven

[WWBC]

Like others have said the OFA level 2 and 3 courses are a great start. But they really don't equip someone very well for the improvised nature of wilderness first Aid.

You almost want to have both courses under your belt and practice the skills regularly.
The 1&2 day courses don't really teach much more than CPR and choking.

As for First aid kits- it seems many of the commercial kits have a lot of filler supplies in them and not enough of the important stuff.


You almost want to build a kit based on products and tools you have experience with using and have multiple uses.

[BC30cal]

WWBC:
Top of the morning to you sir, I hope this first day of March finds you well.

When I'm teaching the Survival/First Aid night for our club's annual CORE course I strongly suggest that the students take as much training as they possibly can, as others have said there's no replacement for actual hands on experience.

I was certified 3 times as an OFA Level II and like the previous poster, always took the full course and attended any extra practice sessions - it's more time in the saddle I figured.

One thing I'm not a huge proponent of is buying a ready made First Aid kit, because many folks who do so won't open it until they need it and at that point it's a little late to find the contents or lack thereof.

My suggestion is to build your own kit based upon what you know how to use. If you've taken a single one day course and are competent applying an adhesive dressing, then carry that and some cleaning towelettes. No need for a field suture kit, etc - you know?

Also, if we build our own kit, then we're more likely to be familiar with where everything is in it, or so it is with this semi-old guy anymore.

Lastly, I try to package everything in freezer bags and label them with a sharpie, as it makes it much easier to find in an emergency situation and for sure if you're lucky enough to have a helper/bystander along it's faster for them to find the abdominal pads if it's labeled.

Thanks to the OP for the thread, it's never a bad time to get our First Aid kit in order for next season.

Dwayne

[WWBC]

100% agree with you Dwayne on all your points.

I've done level2, have a current advanced level3, 120 hours of wilderness ( long expired) and most recently my First responder through my VFD.

A re-cert every 3 years really isn't enough to stay current. When I just did my first Responder I was amazing how quickly I had become rusty.

Some Nice things to have in a kit are:
-Benadryl
-opsite bandage ( clear waterproof/breathable bandage for minor wounds)
- high quality roller bandage
- triangular bandages
- Tape
-stari strips
- trinksure of benzoin(
- 1 oz Saline twist tops
-non adherent dressing.
-BZK wipes

its nice to have items with many uses.

[Pemby_mess]

OEC has a yearly modulated refresher. It's got a pretty good system going. Geared toward ski patrollers, but highly relevant to anybody recreating in the outdoors.

[geo guy]

Some Nice things to have in a kit are:
-Benadryl
-opsite bandage ( clear waterproof/breathable bandage for minor wounds)
- high quality roller bandage
- triangular bandages
- Tape
-stari strips
- trinksure of benzoin(
- 1 oz Saline twist tops
-non adherent dressing.
-BZK wipes

its nice to have items with many uses.

I like your list, I would add a few things to it, Medical glue, painkillers and anti inflammatory's. I knicked my finger will cleaning a moose last year and there was no way any bandage was going to stop it from bleeding, I cleaned it up and covered it in glue and withing fifteen minutes it was fully sealed up and hard. I would strongly recommend glue for when you are on long trips where you cant get proper treatment within a few hours.

[Fisher-Dude]

Over the 38 year carreer..far more heart attacks from fishermen than hunters..sudden excitement ?


Fishermen are out of shape because they sit in a boat and guzzle beer all day long, hence the higher heart attack rate than hunters. ;)


https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a5/91/2e/a5912e04f36bbd06bb319c90605d9d0f--how-to-fish-drink-beer.jpg

[jlirot]

My basic first aid expired a few years ago... I plan to do an outdoor course soon. Can't do them enough. In a high pressure situation it's hard to remember everything, practice, practice, practice. A few years ago I was first 'on scene' for a heart attack - intense, and hard to remember how many compression's etc.

For my son's cub scouts I recently invited a mountain rescue volunteer to give a mini-seminar. After the seminar I added a couple things to my day pack - a small tarp and a mini bivvy sack. Even if you're close to help (I hike a fair bit around Cypress etc while my son takes his ski lesson) - being able to keep someone warm and dry could make a HUGE difference.

[Ltbullken]

There are wilderness first aid courses available. Basically, IMO, the higher the level of first aid training you can take the better. What are we hunters most likely to encounter? Maybe fractures, sprains, dehydration/heat exhaustion, hypothermia, maybe cardiac issues for less fit hunt partners, minor cuts, burns, and of course more serious issues like choking, major bleeds from knives, branches (quadding), and god forbid, firearms, and also anaphylaxis, heart attack, and shock. Can you or your first aid kit handle that and are you able to call for emergency extraction in a worst case scenario (SPOT, InReach, sat phone, etc.)?

How about knowing the medical history of those around you? Like buddy has high blood pressure and he didn't bring enough meds with him, or diabetes, asthma, etc. If someone is going into the backcountry one needs to be prepared and one needs to also take responsibility for oneself like knowing how much medication is needed and telling folks around you what to do in an emergency. If you have a medical condition that can go south, you also better ensure you have a way to call for help. I always have a FA kit on hand and a way to survive up on a mountain overnight if need be. A serious fracture may be a non-mobile situation and I would not presume that even in pressing the emergency button on the SPOT that I would be evac'd before 24 hours. Does anyone have any experience with response time once that button is pressed? Just curious.

[srupp]

Hmmm great conversation to start and impressed with the knowledge and courses repeatably taken..
Hmm first compressions are 100/minute.
As far as SPOT goes. .it depends on location and time of the emergency request.
Remote fly in..unless triggered in the early morning most likely won't see anyone that day, no night flights unless 442 military get involved ie plane crash.
The emergency activation..contacts YOUR contacts however police and ESS. .BC ambulance and rescue are contacted..your GPS location starts determining the best method of locating..then reaching and extracting you..and thus the fastest method on the first attempt.and where suitable rescue machines are located in relation to you..big difference south tip of Teslin lake 15 kms off it..back in the woods versus onthe back hills just outside Fort NNelson. ..or on a beach on Calvert island..
Daylight..time of call..proximity of paramedics..police..rescue and machines..sometimes clicks..sometimes grinds .
There should be the realization in one's planning that a remote flight in on floats for sheep way in the baaaaaack" country won't be instantaneous.
Steven

[MichelD]

I've taken the SJA First aid course at least 3 time snow and every time I do I learn more and wish I could afford to take one every year. Last time I was fortunate that my employer covered it, but I'm retiring from that industry so cannot rely on that financial support any more.

I feel fortunate that I have never had to deal with a major incident in 50 years of hunting. I've cut myself seriously a few times setting up camp.

One thing I have learned is that I should not use a hatchet. Those things are out to get me.

[BC30cal]

100% agree with you Dwayne on all your points.

I've done level2, have a current advanced level3, 120 hours of wilderness ( long expired) and most recently my First responder through my VFD.

A re-cert every 3 years really isn't enough to stay current. When I just did my first Responder I was amazing how quickly I had become rusty.

Some Nice things to have in a kit are:
-Benadryl
-opsite bandage ( clear waterproof/breathable bandage for minor wounds)
- high quality roller bandage
- triangular bandages
- Tape
-stari strips
- trinksure of benzoin(
- 1 oz Saline twist tops
-non adherent dressing.
-BZK wipes

its nice to have items with many uses.

WWBC;
Good afternoon to you sir, thanks for the reply and list.

It is, in my experience and estimation - a most excellent and useful list - folks reading could do a whole lot worse than that list.

If as mentioned by srupp, one intends to go far from mother's arms and into the true wild, then one's list should be a bit more comprehensive. If your doctor would prescribe a general anti-biotic - and they might not - but one might/could save your bacon until the plane gets back if some sort of strep infection showed up unannounced.

When dealing with minor and medium less minor lacerations, I've had less than stellar luck with butterfly bandages and much better luck with the "steri-strip" adhesive. If one is using a steri-strip, glue or 1" Gorilla Tape, one needs to treat it like a suture, so keep it clean and dry for the next 7-10 days.

The Friar's Balsam you mentioned works wonders in keeping the steri-strips in place too.

The real bugger is cleaning one's own lacerated digits off, then keeping them dry, whilst applying said steri-strip to one's self....... ask me how I know this to be true.....

Anyway that's the reason for the labeled baggies as even very young daughters can be pressed into service as medical aids when the need arises - again this is from personal experience! :wink:

Oh, almost forgot a few pairs of good nitrile gloves in the kit too are a must if we're working on anyone outside immediate family that we know the complete medical history of. This can't be over stressed as blood borne pathogens are really something one can pick up easily and never put down.....

I like the 8ml Grease Monkey mechanics gloves myself - a box is maybe $17 at Lordco and I'd say your potential good health for the rest of your life is worth under $20, no?

Heart issues run rampant in my family so there's baggies of baby Aspirin everywhere in my pack and rigs. Can't hurt and might help me, or so a geriatric nurse in CORE told me one year.

Anyway, that's all i can think of to add right now, but thanks again for the good input from all. It's the sort of content that brings me back into forums once in awhile.

All the best to you as we head into spring.

Dwayne

[srupp]

Hmmm good post Dwayne..the Friars Balsam does work well in rural emergency situation..keeps things "clean " and truly allows steri strip or butterfly closures to stick. One of the results of losing blood. .hypo..low volemia"..low volume hypovolemia..is its a start to shock..in adequate blood flow..perfusion of the brain..resulting in sweating..moist pale skin..making anything stick to this moist skin problematic and challenging.
Years ago a worker completely severed his arm halfway between elbow and hand...his crew kept the arm..stopped the bleeding..mostly..pretty extreme injury..he survived..and through fortuitous timing..everyone doing their part well...the gentleman had successful reconstruction surgery......AND PLAYER THE GUITAR AGAIN,
Steven

[Magnumb]

If you are a ways away from the truck look into SAM splints and velcro straps... well worth the cost and ease of use. Tweezers and Telfa dressings i would add as well.

[Weatherby Fan]

When my older brother Leif and I headed out for our 12 day flyin for Stones I asked him if he had a first aid kit in his pack........yeh its called a 180gr TSX if you get hurt that bad I can't fix you so Ill just end your pain........:shock::mrgreen:

Ive got a new partner for this year !

[Magnumb]

okay, add a shovel and bag if lime to the kit...:razz:

[Pemby_mess]

Hmmm good post Dwayne..the Friars Balsam does work well in rural emergency situation..keeps things "clean " and truly allows steri strip or butterfly closures to stick. One of the results of losing blood. .hypo..low volemia"..low volume hypovolemia..is its a start to shock..in adequate blood flow..perfusion of the brain..resulting in sweating..moist pale skin..making anything stick to this moist skin problematic and challenging.
Years ago a worker completely severed his arm halfway between elbow and hand...his crew kept the arm..stopped the bleeding..mostly..pretty extreme injury..he survived..and through fortuitous timing..everyone doing their part well...the gentleman had successful reconstruction surgery......AND PLAYER THE GUITAR AGAIN,
Steven


If you are a ways away from the truck look into SAM splints and velcro straps... well worth the cost and ease of use. Tweezers and Telfa dressings i would add as well.

One important thing that can get missed with shock, is that hypovolemia can occur without a massive external bleed. Dehydration being obvious, but also internal bleeding.

In the fall/winter especially, it seems to happen really fast without an extraordinary amount of blood loss. I had a client break their tibia, and I swear they were crashing within an hour. I always try to keep a thermos with warm fluids on me. It doesn't really seem like a FA thing, but if someone breaks a large bone, or has a deadly bleed you want to try to get warm fluids in them adapt after you have them stabilized. Also really important to do whatever you can to get the patient off the ground/snow.

i had a bit of an exchange recently on here about treking poles. They make really good splints, especially for a femur. With some practice, you can even use them to get traction on the bone. I always keep some large HD semi-elastic ski straps on me. They're a really good multi-purpose tool for FA, repair and general improvisation. Good for meat packing too!

[scoutlt1]

Fishermen are out of shape because they sit in a boat and guzzle beer all day long, hence the higher heart attack rate than hunters. ;)


https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a5/91/2e/a5912e04f36bbd06bb319c90605d9d0f--how-to-fish-drink-beer.jpg


I can't believe you posted my Tinder profile pic.

Jerk :)

[srupp]

Hmm lots of reasons for true" shock" not just blood loss..yes that is correct..but didn't want to deviate from bleeding scenario. .

However if serious or not so much do NOT administer anything by mouth..NPO"... .nothing per oral..it may delay surgical intervention...or at the very least make far more challenging for the gas jockey to agree to the surgery...
Reason you go in for surgery..they require you to not eat or drink after midnight..
50% of those that aspirate ..die.last statistic I recall those numbers are the same even in hospital setting.
Getting some stuff together for a short view on prehospital emergency care and control of bleeding in the field.
Not here to challenge anyone..nor do I want particular grief on what I share..it is based on 38 years of prehospital training, knowledge...experience..control of bleeding was a particular area that I tried to Excell at.lit was important when your office was 50,000 sq.kms.and included every man women child, resident or visitors.
One of my co-workers..flew in by chopper to a nasty MVI"..HE SLIPPED on a Maglite flash lite under a blanket and lacerated his hand badly trying to arrest his fall.he asked me to bandage it up..i did so..he flew off in the chopper.
Once his patient had been attended to he sought relief for his injury..once unwrapped the hand really started to bleed while attempting to stop the bleeding he quipped..get Steven he stopped it once..he can do it again..lol
Cheers
Steven

[BC30cal]

srupp;
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experience with us Steven, it's good info in my experience.

In a former life, as well as being the head OFA at a manufacturing plant I got to handle the correspondence with WorkSafeBC, surgeons, physios, etc. - so I hope it's okay that I smiled when I read the wording of your response.

Terms like, "nothing per oral" and "sought relief for his injury" are ones I recognize. It's not your first rodeo with no pay window I see..:wink:

Thanks again for sharing what might/could save someone's life out there someday Steven.

All the best to you as we head into the spring.

Dwayne

[TARCHER]

I like the kiss principal. Keep it simple stupid. Like Steve says bleeding control is a big one meaning some dressings and kling or gauze for starters. How big a kit do you have room for. An LTV 1200 and lifepak 15 would be nice. Nice to have some morphine or fentanyl iv for your buddy who just stuck his axe thru his foot

[srupp]

I like the kiss principal. Keep it simple stupid. Like Steve says bleeding control is a big one meaning some dressings and kling or gauze for starters. How big a kit do you have room for. An LTV 1200 and lifepak 15 would be nice. Nice to have some morphine or fentanyl iv for your buddy who just stuck his axe thru his foot

Thank you my friend..one of THE HIGHEST trained Paramedics in BC..always respected you when you dropped in for a Medivac..
And i concur....the issue is not the knowledge..it is what best suits the average hunter/outdoorsman/woman what can be comprehended..retained and remembered in a stressful emergency situation as well as the gear in your kit that will ALWAYS be there.thank you Mr.T.
Cheers
Steven

[TARCHER]

Thank you my friend..one of THE HIGHEST trained Paramedics in BC..always respected you when you dropped in for a Medivac..
And i concur....the issue is not the knowledge..it is what best suits the average hunter/outdoorsman/woman what can be comprehended..retained and remembered in a stressful emergency situation as well as the gear in your kit that will ALWAYS be there.thank you Mr.T.
Cheers
Steven
Steve your too kind. Without all the kit and government issued toys I am like all of you with a first aid kit and trust me mine is basic. Do miss dropping into WL and seeing your smiling face. Seems like awhile ago but loving retirement.

[TARCHER]

Won't bore you with details but bringing back some memories. Russ and I (Steve you know Russ) landed in Kemess for a hunting accident. A pickup truck is there with a young tough first nations guy, good guy too, who was skinning a caribou and ran his knife across his palm. All good. They had it wrapped well and bleeding controlled but according to his partners this was serious requiring further attention. Well as we know before you deliver to trauma center you better know what your reporting. We unwrapped that hand of the torn t shirts and oh my, not only was it a gapping wound but it started bleeding again. So here is us heading to VGH plastics as he couldn't flex some of his digits (tendon damage)but son of a bitch despite direct pressure, elevation etc it took awhile to calm things down. More layers of 4x4s and kling wrap it was done. Should have left the t shirt on, lol

[jlirot]

Two things I keep in the truck kit: A bottle of saline solution. And a small bottle of Listerine. Listerine was designed as a disinfectant for surgery - not a mouth wash. So, I keep some around in case of cuts etc.

[srupp]

Hmm will do the first module bleeding..it's a presentation based on KISS..principles not rules..it's what I carry..and what is expected in the outdoors protected by the good Samaritan act..
Please leave the discussion for this post..leave the separate presentation free of comments, suggestions so it flows and is one continuous presentation thought.
If you guys/gals think it was worthwhile I will do one on chest pain..cardiac..one on # fractures and one on heat stroke..etc
This may not what you expect from OFA, or other courses..it is however principles, simple advice you may remember under stress of an emergency...with gear you will carry with you.
We will deal with what is bad..ie shock..principles..when to get help involved..ie MEDIVAC BCAS or 442..
Above all primary thought...DO NO HARM.....
HOPE the information to be presented is useful..and you never need it.
Cheers
Steven Rupp

[TARCHER]

Great idea Steve. Good on you and your tremendous wealth of real experience.

[Sundown]

Hi, level 3 OFA for the past 13 years working in the forest industry. Good thread. I dont think people take their first aid kits serious enough. If I get time id love to add more but the one thing I have that i like to pass on is a dry bag for your kit. I use a kayak dry bag for the kit i built. Keeps it water proof no matter where you throw it. Always im a seperate pouch on my pack amd doesnt make any sound when packed. Just a thought.

[Walksalot]

Good to have a first aid course and a first aid kit. You tube is an excellent place for information and to refresh one's memory. I was a level three first responder with spinal for many years. I has come in handy a time or two.
I think a course for the outdoors person is an excellent idea especially from a person who is well skilled and spent much time in the outdoors. Necessity is the mother of invention and I am sure there have been some ingenious ideas hatched in the field under some pretty hairy situations. Sharing them would be an excellent idea.

[mpotzold]

A great thread.

If I recall Steven mentioned about introducing the subject years ago.

To start things we should be well aware of our hunting partner/s health issues or potential health issues before venturing into the wilderness & be able to administer emergency care/first aid if needed. From cardiac problems including family history, allergies, epilepsy, accidents,…..etc.
Who knows? An EpiPen used for allergic reactions might have saved the life of BB.

Another device to consider is a defibrillator.

Considering taking training in both this year. You never know!

Backcountry Cardiac Emergencies
https://www.frontiersafetyandsupply.com/publications/backcountry-safety-cardiac-emergencies

[srupp]

I just found out I cant dictate the presentation so plan B.
defibrillator is non start in fields..it is $5k.very tempormental..and would assume you would lug it to top of mts..or have it with you or close..

anayphlaxys..is strange it gets worse as you get more exposure..usually first episode is not fatal..my wife has allergies we have ALL the gear..her episodes have gotten worse..very strange BB did not have a epi pen with him most certainly having experienced allergies anyphylaxis prior..
I am typing up with plan b on bleeding..
Srupp

[scoutlt1]

I just found out I cant dictate the presentation so plan B.
defibrillator is non start in fields..it is $5k.very tempormental..and would assume you would lug it to top of mts..or have it with you or close..

anayphlaxys..is strange it gets worse as you get more exposure..usually first episode is not fatal..my wife has allergies we have ALL the gear..her episodes have gotten worse..very strange BB did not have a epi pen with him most certainly having experienced allergies anyphylaxis prior..
I am typing up with plan b on bleeding..
Srupp

Good post and thread Srupp....

Just as a side comment, AEDs are now available for less than 2k. We finally picked one up for work.

I wouldn't suggest packing one up to the top of the mountain, but with a bunch of old farts having drinks around fire, I'm good with an AED in one camper....

[willyqbc]

Fuddrupster.....any legal issues with a dozen or so friends hanging out together over a weekend ....you know, just yakkin about stuff....maybe one of the friends does more talkin than the others?? My son and I would be into that sort of "get together".....would even be willing to bring some money for......uhhh.....groceries for the get together??8)

[srupp]

hmmm just about finished..DAMN didn't know how much there was..lol want to limit it but still pass on the information..hate to miss an important issue,point...

I have guys stop by for cutting moose sessions,caping bears,fly tying..I have no issue with sharing life saving ideas with friends hmm just bring a coffee..
I can handle 12 fore sure..
this first issue is Bleeding and first aid supplies for that.
Steven

[srupp]

I have a lawyers meeting first thing tomorrow I must prepare for..WCB issues grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
The principles of prehospital wilderness bleeding control is done, they are not many nor complex..however the thought process behind these actions and decision processes requires a couple paragraphs..understanding each principle is paramount.
I am including a "carry with you " first aid kit for bleeding..the optimum important part..CARRY WITH YOU..more gear can be left at camp but the majority of first aid gear is for bleeding other issues require processes, actions but hardly any gear.
I will figure how to get this all on this site on Tuesday or Wednesday in entirety.
It will be on a couple other outdoor sites also.
Any negative deconstruction criticism can be sent via PM..there are different ways..this one way..the way and WHY ..i control bleeding..
Cheers
Steven
Thank you for this site for being there for me..hoping this helps give back some small part..

[mpotzold]

Frostbite and Hypothermia 101
http://www.backroadmapbooks.com/blog/hypothermia-and-frostbite-101/

Read about the recent Yukon Arctic Ultra race & the dangers of the extreme cold the racers faced. One may lose both hands & feet due to frostbite.
2 years ago Brenda Mackey, an Alaskan musher had frostbite in her eye forcing her to drop out.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2284821/yukon-arctic-ultra-claims-extremities

Spent a winter working & living in tents in the same Yukon wilderness where the temp. dropped to almost -70 DegF for more than a week.
Learned about the importance of dressing properly & keeping the fire going.

[srupp]

Hmmm if..BIG if..this first posting of bleeding is well received. .i was thinking of cardiac, fractures the next 2..who knows..
Cheers
Steven

[HarryToolips]

^^^^looking forward to those Steven....

[BStrachan]

Great post Srupp! I've taken my OFA3 approx. 8 times and still continue to take the 2 week course. I then took my EMR followed up by taking my Primary Care Paramedic course. I carry a self made first aid kit in my truck at all times and carry probably more in my kit than the average person. Course that's due to the field of work I am in. When I am hunting or fishing I either use my FA fanny pack stocked with dressing, ASA, bandages, butterfly bandages, tensor bandage, few triangular bandages, small saline bottles, basic bandaids, gauze.
I can't list everything in my bigger FA kit but some of the supplies I do carry are...sam splints, triangular, ASA, pressure dressings, triangular along with other FA equipment.

When it comes to stopping the bleeding direct pressure elevation of the limb is paramount. Low blood pressure due to bleeding internally or externally is a problem that isn't easily fixed out in the bush without fluid replacement.
Correct me if I am wrong Steve but besides controlling the bleeding and patient position there is not much else one can do?

Another problem that we don't typically think about unless if maybe your a paramedic is if the person who has injured them self and is bleeding perfusly is are they taking blood thinners. It will be more difficult to control the bleeding.

Great post Steve and I look forward to reading more!

[srupp]

Hmmm strange how much there actually is with bleeding..surprised myself..
Steven