Spear hunting

[monasheemountainman]

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-218397-4-.htm#218397

what do you guys think?

[Bear Chaser]

I think it is unfortunate that this guy had to videotape himself behaving like a complete buffoon and then post it on the internet.
I also think that if I ever feel the need to spear a critter (bucket list) I would just go ahead and do it. Obviously without the buffoonery or the evidence on social media.

[monasheemountainman]

I agree with you. He's an idiot. But this is just one more notch added to the belt that is getting tighter around hunters necks

[835]

Social media is the bane of our existence. All the new TV shows...... all that crap.
Back in the day we did what we did. we were competitive at " big buck weigh ins" and local contests .... as well as Boone and Crockett etc.....

Now? Today... We have people doing legal things that we have been doing for hundreds of years but posting them for all the city slickers to see.... the same city slicker that was completely ignorant not 20 years ago.....
Spearing? WTF? Sorry, I don't get it.... People tell me a 243 is totally capable to kill a moose then go spear a bear.... What does that look like to these now all seeing vegan city slickers?
how much Poaching has gone on so people can make a TV show? Right now without batting an eye I can think of three shows....

I am all for all legal hunting, and yes I guess that can include spear hunting...... All I am saying is Social media will be the death of this all..... Call it "hiding under a rock" if you like but rubbing it in the face of the anti hunter will kill us....
sit down and think about how many voters are City Slickers,,,, how many people would be in favour of us... then show them you spearing a bear.... by by... Hunting like a normal person is gone.....


Vent over, seatbelt on..... Skin armour thickened......
Shit was better back in the day....

[snipersights]

Social media is the bane of our existence. All the new TV shows...... all that crap.
Back in the day we did what we did. we were competitive at " big buck weigh ins" and local contests .... as well as Boone and Crockett etc.....

Now? Today... We have people doing legal things that we have been doing for hundreds of years but posting them for all the city slickers to see.... the same city slicker that was completely ignorant not 20 years ago.....
Spearing? WTF? Sorry, I don't get it.... People tell me a 243 is totally capable to kill a moose then go spear a bear.... What does that look like to these now all seeing vegan city slickers?
how much Poaching has gone on so people can make a TV show? Right now without batting an eye I can think of three shows....

I am all for all legal hunting, and yes I guess that can include spear hunting...... All I am saying is Social media will be the death of this all..... Call it "hiding under a rock" if you like but rubbing it in the face of the anti hunter will kill us....
sit down and think about how many voters are City Slickers,,,, how many people would be in favour of us... then show them you spearing a bear.... by by... Hunting like a normal person is gone.....


Vent over, seatbelt on..... Skin armour thickened......
Shit was better back in the day....

I was saying something very similar to this the other day on another HBC thread. I think it is extremely important now more then ever that we limit our online exposure. We gotta keep things pg where people see it. My face book for instance no blood/guts videos of animals bleeding out etc. I have only had the account for a year so not to many pics. But like I said before even though I have a warning posted on my hunting album I’ve still received negative crap about it. Those people have been “removed” from my life. Let’s keep posting but keep it to our personal groups. This I believe is doing our part. You can’t stop everyone else. And try to educate people who are ignorant. Cheers S.S.

[J_T]

^^^ I agree with those above. It isn't important that hunters flex their legal undertakings on social media. Social media represents a governance model of social judgement and opinion. The non hunter will dictate our future. One bad moment, one bad image does a lot of harm in that opinion. And for those that feel 'proud' of what you do and your heritage, I'm fine with that, my confusion is, why is it important to you to post it online. Hunting is about so many things other than the kill, but all we post are short images of the end of life. I'd rather see images about the quality of a life.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The guy is an idiot. Just be glad he didn't have YOUR weapon of choice in his hand.

A spear is a traditional hunting tool like a longbow or recurve. Each one has its own limitations and is an effective method of killing in well-practiced hands.
Some people are more effective with a spear in hand than some people are with a large caliber rifle.

SSS

[skibum]

Ya, spears have been used for centuries, but there is a reason the regs regulate what class of bow you are allowed to use on what type of game. Why aren't you allowed to hunt bears with 22's?

Think spears should be legal, get rid of the legal hunting methods table in the regs.

Even without posting to social media, the aniti's would have a hay-day with the propaganda if spears were legal in BC.

For how many guys would actually use a spear, rather than think it is cool, not worth it.

[kootenaihunter]

BAD: another individual causing PR issues for the hunting community. Like it or not, we are painted with the same brush when incidents like these pop up, rightly or wrongly.

GOOD: exposed a loop hole in the regs that was closed, and probably prompted the rest of the provinces and territories to review their regs as well.

[KodiakHntr]

Ya, spears have been used for centuries, but there is a reason the regs regulate what class of bow you are allowed to use on what type of game. Why aren't you allowed to hunt bears with 22's?

Think spears should be legal, get rid of the legal hunting methods table in the regs.

Even without posting to social media, the aniti's would have a hay-day with the propaganda if spears were legal in BC.

For how many guys would actually use a spear, rather than think it is cool, not worth it.

Spears ARE legal to hunt with in BC.... The "legal hunting method table" is merely a guideline, not the be-all-end-all listing. The Wildlife Act is the overriding governance as to what you can and can't do when you hunt in BC. And it outlines the things that are specifically illegal to hunt with, it does NOT specifically state the things that are legal to hunt with....
Air rifles, rocks, sling shots, sticks, spears, all legal to use to hunt.

And for those of us that HAVE used a spear to hunt, it isn't about "thinking its cool". Its about knowing your own limits and challenging yourself. I could use ANY caliber or cartridge and fill 2 black bear tags a year. Easily. I could use a 17 Mach2 and have zero issues putting some dicks in the dirt.
Instead, I use archery tackle, or a spear. And that presents a lot more HUNT than simply poking a hole in an animals brain pan with a rifle.

If you are one of those folks who can't fill a tag, or gets too excited to be able to place a shot with your 338 LoudenBoomerMagnum I can see how the challenge would be lost on you. For some folks though, merely just filling a tag has lost its excitement and appeal, and they need to do more to increase the satisfaction they feel. For some people that means pitting wits against an old old animal that has seen it all and lived through it, and for some it means making it more difficult for themselves.

[TexasWalker]

Ya, spears have been used for centuries, but there is a reason the regs regulate what class of bow you are allowed to use on what type of game. Why aren't you allowed to hunt bears with 22's?

Think spears should be legal, get rid of the legal hunting methods table in the regs.

Even without posting to social media, the aniti's would have a hay-day with the propaganda if spears were legal in BC.

For how many guys would actually use a spear, rather than think it is cool, not worth it.

Spears aren't legal in BC??

[J_T]

It isn't about the weapon of choice. Very specifically, it's about the exposure to anti and non hunters via social media. The legality or efficiency of one weapon versus another is not the issue.

[835]

KodiackHntr,

I totally agree with your view. But unfortunately I do not think that the vast majority of people wanting to use a spear are doing it for the reasons you outline.
and like I said, you also strike me as a guy who wouldn't post up the whole thing on social media acting like an idiot. I am all for primitive stuff, but done right.

[Gateholio]

Banning spears....Solving a problem that doesn’t exist.

[KodiakHntr]

835, some folks get really emotional in some scenario's. I watched the video in question, and I can understand the whooping and excitement. Hunting a bear on foot without backup is a huge adrenaline dump after the bear takes off. I wouldn't have been surprised to see him shed a tear, or collapse after the adrenaline release. Nor am I surprised to see his reaction as it was. Some people are just more prone to showing emotion than others is all.

And he had a big accomplishment. There probably aren't 100 people in the US or Canada that have done what he's done - as far as I'm aware, there are only two of us on HBC that have done it, and maybe 4 on CGN, so I can understand why he put it up on social media. Not to mention that putting stuff on facebook is part of his job..... He did have a sponsorship from UA after all.
Personally, I don't put anything up much on FB or here for that matter anymore. I send a few pics of the stuff I kill, or that my kids or gf kill, and that's it. But I certainly understand why people do. Same as when cavepeople painted pictures of their accomplishments on cave walls, they want to show others what they did - its human nature....(See what I did there?....(grin)
Hell, there is an entire TV show dedicated to spears and blowgun hunting on WildTV (or at least there used to be), and it isn't like spear hunting is new..... This is merely a case of one or two groups of people using current public opinion to further their own agenda. If everyone posted stuff up on FB that was a hunter, and MORE people saw that their friends and neighbors were hunters then this sort of thing wouldn't stand out and get the traction it did.
Look at what hiding in the closet did for the LGBTQ community - absolutely nothing positive, and it got them persecuted by the general populace for generations. Look at what forcing it out into the open and being proud of who they are did for them......



And I truly doubt that there are all that many people who look at a spear and go "hey, I think I wanna give that a go". I think there ARE a lot of folks who will buy a spear, and tell anyone in earshot as they walk out of the store that they are buying it for bear hunting, but when the rubber meets the road, not many folks will actually take off their boots and sneak up to a bear to try it.

[835]

There in lies the problem Kodiak... I pretty near completely agree with you... EXCEPT,,,,, I think public opinion these days will play huge against us. That video, I saw it once back when this happened,,, I cant really respond to now as I pretty near forgot it. What was trying to get across is, this stuff needs to stay with in our community. IMO especially the " fringe" stuff.

I understand what you mean with, if all of us posted what we did people might see that there are a lot of us out there... But the fact is we wont, and the Anti's will cherry pic these things and use them against us....

[KodiakHntr]

Yeah, that's the problem alright.... As long as people think that they can dictate how we live our lives because there aren't very many of us, then the ones on the edges of our community won't speak up when their friends and neighbors start ranting about the mean hunters/killers because they will feel like they are alone...
Much like how the LGBTQ community was treated for years. It was ok to gay bash to your buddies because you didn't know that one of them was gay. It was ok to make fun of tranny's because you didn't really know any. It was ok to joke about girl on girl porn because you didn't know your cousin Molly was into girls.... But now? Now it isn't ok, because odds are you know someone close to you who associates with some part of that community. Odds are that your neighbors sister is gay. Or used to be a man. Or whatever. So now, now we are starting to accept it in general mainstream society, because we see it every day.

Personally, I think that is what hunters need to do. Show people every day that it is ok to hunt, and that you hunt, and I hunt, and Joe hunts, and we all hunt for different reasons, but that is ok, because it is ok to be a Hunter. Hiding it isn't going to help. We've proven that, hiding and staying out of sight is doing way more harm than good.

But that's just my thoughts.

[835]

Well firstly... my cousins kid is gay... lol... so ya, I know that. and yes he is close to me he is my family. it was quite funny when he came out because I was one of the family he was worried about... I just told him that we all knew he was gay for years and I love him....

I try to educate people as I go, I have "converted" a few people. And I try to put myself out there as "proper" .... I don't hide per say, but I do doubt social media will help us...
What I can say for sure is I hope your right. I only drift through facebook myself and posting pictures here just got difficult... And really, im not saying to not post anything, anywhere.... I am just saying maybe we should look at what we do post.... if they can take something like The Eckland cat and twist it, even tho he talked about eating it.... I guess they can twist anything in the end.....

[KodiakHntr]

Well firstly... my cousins kid is gay... lol... so ya, I know that. and yes he is close to me he is my family. it was quite funny when he came out because I was one of the family he was worried about... I just told him that we all knew he was gay for years and I love him....

I try to educate people as I go, I have "converted" a few people. And I try to put myself out there as "proper" .... I don't hide per say, but I do doubt social media will help us...
What I can say for sure is I hope your right. I only drift through facebook myself and posting pictures here just got difficult... And really, im not saying to not post anything, anywhere.... I am just saying maybe we should look at what we do post.... if they can take something like The Eckland cat and twist it, even tho he talked about eating it.... I guess they can twist anything in the end.....

That cat is exactly my point. If more of us put ourselves out there like he did, or like TJ and Vanessa do by posting pictures and stories and educating people that might not ever has seen anything like that before, then maybe it doesn't go viral next time.

One thing I do know for sure, hiding in the shadows like we have for years sure ain't helping us at all. Next time you shoot something, make sure there is an antler tine or leg sticking up on the drive home. Show other hunters that you aren't afraid to be recognized as a hunter. The more observant of the sheep out there will sure as hell notice, and it might pique their curiosity. The more obtuse sheep won't really recognize it, but if that sort of thing gradually starts to be seen again like it was decades ago, it won't scare them anymore.

Be proud of who you are. Be loud about who you are. Because being a hunter isn't just something you do, it is a part of what makes you who you are. Be proud of that. Let everyone around you know that you are proud of it, and that you won't hide anymore. If you won't do it for yourself, at least do it for the rest of us.

[Mulehahn]

The problem with the ban in Alberta is not that it happened, but who actually orchestrated it. Yes, there can be no doubt that the Video played a huge part in turning public opinion against spear hunting; but it was already on the chopping block. The true problem is who put it there. The president of the ABA put a motion forward to ban spears and Atlatls (without the "formal" approval of the organization, but that is a another story) back in 2012. That is 4 full years before that video emerged. If it wasn't for a variety of reasons the ban would of been in place long before that video ever surfaced; brought about by hunters.

I agree that we must be very careful what we post on social media as it will come back on us. We are in the minority. But not every loss comes from the outside.

[scoutlt1]

All depends on who you are and how you are presented (or present yourself) in the media.

Has nothing to do with how, or what you are hunting.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/bowhead-whale-1.4285948

[Foxton Gundogs]

Well as I am apparently an anti, this probably won't mean much to certain individuals but my thoughts on the subject are this. I support everyone's right to hunt legally but I also have to ask how far do we let "primitive weapons" go. I mean early man used to use spiked pits, and stone their prey to death. I can see how spear hunting may be distasteful to the public and maybe even some hunters. There comes a point when the "violence" gets to be to much. All I m saying is that some forums of "killing" may be just to far off the chain to do hunters/hunting in general any good. There comes a time when we as hunters must also be politicians for the good of the sport, it may be distasteful but the way things go is we must take as much distastefulness out of our sport as possible or arguing about it will be a moot point because there will be nothing to argue about any more.

[TexasWalker]

Well as I am apparently an anti, this probably won't mean much to certain individuals but my thoughts on the subject are this. I support everyone's right to hunt legally but I also have to ask how far do we let "primitive weapons" go. I mean early man used to use spiked pits, and stone their prey to death. I can see how spear hunting may be distasteful to the public and maybe even some hunters. There comes a point when the "violence" gets to be to much. All I m saying is that some forums of "killing" may be just to far off the chain to do hunters/hunting in general any good. There comes a time when we as hunters must also be politicians for the good of the sport, it may be distasteful but the way things go is we must take as much distastefulness out of our sport as possible or arguing about it will be a moot point because there will be nothing to argue about any more.

What if they're hunting for health and not trophies?

[Gateholio]

Lets roll up our sleeves and get to work banning bow hunting, too. We can start with traditional archery gear like longbows and recurve bows.

[Cedar Cowgirl]

What if they're hunting for health and not trophies?
So what if I do, does that make me an anti, but then when have you ever let facts interfere with a BS post to stir the pot it may be hard for you to understand but that byline was old news(2014) to be exact and it was not coined by me or my Hubby, or any of the others that used it in the allocation fights. If you have anything intelligent to say then fine but when you post nothing but anonymous garble to stir the pot don't expect anyone to take you seriously. Must be sad to have to resort to pot stirring and attacking members of this forum for what little excitement you may get out of life.

[Wild one]

If you think about how a spear causes damage it is extremely deadly

This is a large blade huge wound that would cause mass blood lose. Disadvantage is really only short range

Truth is it is people don’t understand it

[Danny_29]

Well as I am apparently an anti, this probably won't mean much to certain individuals but my thoughts on the subject are this. I support everyone's right to hunt legally but I also have to ask how far do we let "primitive weapons" go. I mean early man used to use spiked pits, and stone their prey to death. I can see how spear hunting may be distasteful to the public and maybe even some hunters. There comes a point when the "violence" gets to be to much. All I m saying is that some forums of "killing" may be just to far off the chain to do hunters/hunting in general any good. There comes a time when we as hunters must also be politicians for the good of the sport, it may be distasteful but the way things go is we must take as much distastefulness out of our sport as possible or arguing about it will be a moot point because there will be nothing to argue about any more.

This is well said. The video had massive backlash, if the original ban proposed by the ABA been adopted in 2012, the video and negative media could have been avoided? I know it's unpopular in this community to ban hunting, but this particular ban could have resulted in a net positive for the majority of hunters.

[Gateholio]

This is well said. The video had massive backlash, if the original ban proposed by the ABA been adopted in 2012, the video and negative media could have been avoided? I know it's unpopular in this community to ban hunting, but this particular ban could have resulted in a net positive for the majority of hunters.

Sounds good. I assume you will be stepping up to join our campaign to ban bowhunting?

[Danny_29]

Sounds good. I assume you will be stepping up to join our campaign to ban bowhunting?

I'm an avid bow hunter. My argument is that had the ban been implemented before the video it would have actually benefited bow hunters specifically. In my opinion the biggest threat to bowhunting is one of these viral videos.

[Busterpayton54]

The irony is all the anti's flapping...you hunters, so tough with your big guns, scopes and killing from miles away. Put down your gun and fight the bear face to face if you're so tough"

so someone does pretty much that, kills the bear, and that very same anti's head explodes.... ban the spear!!!!

People.....

[Bear Chaser]

I'm an avid bow hunter. My argument is that had the ban been implemented before the video it would have actually benefited bow hunters specifically. In my opinion the biggest threat to bowhunting is one of these viral videos.

So you can appreciate that the biggest threat to rifle hunting from a certain perspective is some bow hunter leaving a wounded or dubiously hit animal to bleed out or stiffen up over night.
Either you can accept that or as a hunter you can step up and defend ALL types of hunting.
Which is it going to be?

[Gateholio]

I'm an avid bow hunter. My argument is that had the ban been implemented before the video it would have actually benefited bow hunters specifically. In my opinion the biggest threat to bowhunting is one of these viral videos.


We must get to work on the bowhunting ban before a viral video appears then. This particular ban could result in a net positive for the majority of hunters, who use rifles.

[Walking Buffalo]

Ya, spears have been used for centuries, but there is a reason the regs regulate what class of bow you are allowed to use on what type of game. Why aren't you allowed to hunt bears with 22's?

Think spears should be legal, get rid of the legal hunting methods table in the regs.

Even without posting to social media, the aniti's would have a hay-day with the propaganda if spears were legal in BC.

For how many guys would actually use a spear, rather than think it is cool, not worth it.

Spear ARE legal in BC..... despite this lack of knowledge within your post, let's continue.

Regulating weapons is appropriate.

The Alberta Bowhunters Association President Brent Watson (ABA) without approval from the membership, formally submitted a proposal to our regulations stakeholder to ban spears and atlatls. Brent's words to me, "I find them hard to use, if I can't do, then no one shouldn't be allowed to."
In an effort to keep the tools legal, I and another fellow compiled information for a presentation to our stakeholders.
We provided scientific research into the killing power of various spears and atlatls in comparison to a variety of archery and firearm projectiles.
The evidence was accepted as valid.

The science shows that in many cases, spears and atlatls are much MORE powerful than archery gear.

As was mentioned, the effectiveness of these weapons is no different than archery or guns, it is all about using the weapon within it capacity.

We asked to have spears and atlatls regulated, defined minimum requirements.

That wasn't good enough of the ABA, they continued to push for a ban.

When the social media storm blew, our NDP jumped on the opportunity to eliminate yet another legitimate style of hunting, claiming support from some of the stakeholders.


This ban has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the weapon, or allowing an undefined weapon. This is a smear job by self righteous individual and a government that was happy to score points for their side.


Don't be naive. We can lose all types of valid hunting practices very quickly, regardless of validity, even the style you participate in.




KodiackHntr,

I totally agree with your view. But unfortunately I do not think that the vast majority of people wanting to use a spear are doing it for the reasons you outline.
and like I said, you also strike me as a guy who wouldn't post up the whole thing on social media acting like an idiot. I am all for primitive stuff, but done right.

After getting involved in the effort to keep these tools legal, I spoke with well over a hundred people that use them.

I have the complete opposite view of the typical spear/atlatl hunter. The showboat is the rare one. The overwhelming majority are the type that you would never even know are out hunting and killing. Think traditional archery taken to a much more intimate level....

There is a saying, the archery hunt starts where the rifle hunt ends.

The same is true with these tools. The spear hunt starts where the archery hunt ends.

[Walking Buffalo]

Spears and Atlatls

How hard do they hit?

http://www.thudscave.com/npaa/articles/howhard.htm

[835]

So walking buffalo,

Kodiac is of the opinion the publicity will help us if it is done well. That is what i took from our back and forth.

I assume you are of the same opinion?
Gatehouse as normal has input some great points as well.

This is the real issue. Will this type of publicity hurt us?
Again, thanks for your cintribution Gate.

[snipersights]

I think “this” type of publicity referring to the spear video definitely hurts us. Imagine for a second that you don’t hunt , and you have been convinced that Hunting is good for all the right reasons and you were finally starting to think OK maybe this is not so bad. I have managed to convince my parents almost. Then all of a sudden you see this video on the news of a bear dragging it intestines along the ground after someone Spears it in what looks to be an idiotic fashion to some. What would your mind do? What would you think? Would you still want to support a Hunter after that? Like I was saying before I don’t think we should avoid posting our success but stick to your Facebook or whatever. Use your personal accounts where a bunch of antis won’t see it. If you need to post a video make sure it’s a clean one. And stress that all animals harvested will be eaten and used completely. A great example of this is a deer I shot up jordan river way years ago. Beautiful deer. I took a shot at dusk with my crossbow. The deer jumped and I hit it in the stomach and split the intestine. I tracked it for two hours in the dark through blackberry patches. By the time I found it my legs were so cut up my socks were red. It was still alive. I cut the deers throat with a filet knife and dragged it all the way back to the truck alone. I laid him on a tarp and made the initial incision to pull the guts. (I didn’t do this before because I didn’t want the deer filling up with bits of crap as I dragged him back). As soon as I opened him up crap and stomach contents came pouring out. The meat was spoiled it was disgusting. I still cut my tag. Point being that and other similar stories I keep to the hunting community. I would never share the video or story with non hunters or put it on Facebook. Sometimes what we do is brutal. Things don’t always go as planned. Animals get away. Blood trails dry up. Deer try to jump rivers and get swept out. But we have to keep that hidden. Because that’s all antis see. I takes ten good experiences to right a bad one. My Rottweiler is super friendly and loves everyone, doesn’t matter people meet one bad rotty it takes ten good interactions to right it. And unfortunately a lot of dog owners are irresponsible. Same goes for hunting. We’ve all seen the videos online that shouldn’t be there.

[835]

Thats what i am getting at snipersights.
I font think it makes us look good...and as i have said, im not totally against the idea... i do however think flaunting things all redneck like on social media will hurt us..

I think we need to keep a strong presance out there on different social platforms.. but we need to be very very careful about what we show and how we explain it.

[Danny_29]

We must get to work on the bowhunting ban before a viral video appears then. This particular ban could result in a net positive for the majority of hunters, who use rifles.

Rather maybe we could try and set up a system where a bow hunter has to take a shooting test or something so that they can hunt...in the early nineties this idea was kicked around in Manitoba. It would at least give bowhunters something to lean back on when this video goes viral, not if.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Rather maybe we could try and set up a system where a bow hunter has to take a shooting test or something so that they can hunt...in the early nineties this idea was kicked around in Manitoba. It would at least give bowhunters something to lean back on when this video goes viral, not if.

How did that idea go over??

[scoutlt1]

Can anyone on here explain to me why there was not a similar reaction to this video???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuseR1aYsDc

3:10 to 3:20

"That one's going on Youtube.......f***ing rights it is....million hits"

This was from 2012.

This is all beyond stupid.....

[Gateholio]

Rather maybe we could try and set up a system where a bow hunter has to take a shooting test or something so that they can hunt...in the early nineties this idea was kicked around in Manitoba. It would at least give bowhunters something to lean back on when this video goes viral, not if.

No, I think your original idea is best. banning bow hunting will be a net positive for the majority of hunters.

If this is implemented before a bow hunting video goes viral, it will benefit the majority of hunters. Let's pull up our sleeves and ban bowhunting.

I don't bow hunt anymore, so let's ban it. For sure we should get rid of any traditional bow hunting, that's too close to a spear. And few hunters are going out with longbows so the majority of bowhunters shouldn't care, right?

For the good of the majority of hunters, I am looking forward to seeing your proposal to ban traditional bow hunting. Please proceed

[KodiakHntr]

I think “this” type of publicity referring to the spear video definitely hurts us. Imagine for a second that you don’t hunt , and you have been convinced that Hunting is good for all the right reasons and you were finally starting to think OK maybe this is not so bad. I have managed to convince my parents almost. Then all of a sudden you see this video on the news of a bear dragging it intestines along the ground after someone Spears it in what looks to be an idiotic fashion to some. What would your mind do? What would you think? Would you still want to support a Hunter after that? Like I was saying before I don’t think we should avoid posting our success but stick to your Facebook or whatever. Use your personal accounts where a bunch of antis won’t see it. If you need to post a video make sure it’s a clean one. And stress that all animals harvested will be eaten and used completely.

Eating an animal is not the only reason to hunt or kill it. If you want to eat something, fine, but don't try and make that a selling point to be the only reason to hunt something. We already see the division there were anti's use the argument that "you don't eat it anyway, there is no reason to hunt it"


A great example of this is a deer I shot up jordan river way years ago. Beautiful deer. I took a shot at dusk with my crossbow. The deer jumped and I hit it in the stomach and split the intestine. I tracked it for two hours in the dark through blackberry patches. By the time I found it my legs were so cut up my socks were red. It was still alive. I cut the deers throat with a filet knife and dragged it all the way back to the truck alone. I laid him on a tarp and made the initial incision to pull the guts. (I didn’t do this before because I didn’t want the deer filling up with bits of crap as I dragged him back). As soon as I opened him up crap and stomach contents came pouring out. The meat was spoiled it was disgusting. I still cut my tag. Point being that and other similar stories I keep to the hunting community. I would never share the video or story with non hunters or put it on Facebook. Sometimes what we do is brutal. Things don’t always go as planned. Animals get away. Blood trails dry up. Deer try to jump rivers and get swept out. But we have to keep that hidden. Because that’s all antis see. I takes ten good experiences to right a bad one. My Rottweiler is super friendly and loves everyone, doesn’t matter people meet one bad rotty it takes ten good interactions to right it. And unfortunately a lot of dog owners are irresponsible. Same goes for hunting. We’ve all seen the videos online that shouldn’t be there.

I would highly doubt that the meat was spoiled, even if it took you 10 hours to drag it to the truck. Lack of knowledge on how to properly handle a poorly shot animal isn't reason to declare it "spoiled".
And I would certainly hope you cut your damn tag, you killed it and retrieved it. Your tag should have been cut the moment you finished it with your knife. You insinuate that you felt the meat spoiled so you thought about not cutting it. You already violated a game law at that point if that is the case, so that paints you as being unethical. I would certainly hope you wouldn't put that up on social media, as you do the community more harm than good by trying to tell people here how ethical you are with this scenario....

[Walking Buffalo]

So walking buffalo,

Kodiac is of the opinion the publicity will help us if it is done well. That is what i took from our back and forth.

I assume you are of the same opinion?
Gatehouse as normal has input some great points as well.

This is the real issue. Will this type of publicity hurt us?
Again, thanks for your cintribution Gate.


Without publicity, hunting will surely die.

Publicity that is "done well" is a matter of opinion.

The real problem is that it doesn't matter to the Anti-hunting proponents if the publicity is done well or not.


Anti-hunting marketing events are highly motivated and supported by a network of "soldiers" and money.

Dissect recent anti-hunting outrage of the last decade. It is almost predictable. Every few months a new "outrage" is identified, media conglomerates are fed a narrative including "experts" in outrage. Within minutes the new tragedy is published all around the world. Those that identified and fed the media the new Outrage then fill in public opinion. See the circular reporting?

This is an organized attack! It doesn't matter if facts fit the narrative, this Anti-hunting advocacy will proceed regardless of the "Quality" of publicity we offer.

One of the goals is to ending hunting is to end the Publicity of hunting. They know that without an opposition in media, they will win.

[Walking Buffalo]

No, I think your original idea is best. banning bow hunting will be a net positive for the majority of hunters.

If this is implemented before a bow hunting video goes viral, it will benefit the majority of hunters. Let's pull up our sleeves and ban bowhunting.

I don't bow hunt anymore, so let's ban it. For sure we should get rid of any traditional bow hunting, that's too close to a spear. And few hunters are going out with longbows so the majority of bowhunters shouldn't care, right?

For the good of the majority of hunters, I am looking forward to seeing your proposal to ban traditional bow hunting. Please proceed


Thanks Gatehouse.

This is the exact logic expressed by the Alberta Bowhunter's Association when they began their push to ban spears.

They claimed it was for the greater good. Sacrifice others to save themselves.

Yet, they determinedly ignored that this action would push the line closer to their own heart.
You can only cut off parts of yourself before it is a fatal action.

[Treed]

Unfortunately, the maroons which make up a small percent of hunters - the guys who leave the camp garbage, shoot the sign, dump the doe that didn’t have 4 points, don’t know how to salvage meat of a gut shot deer, and shoot videos that would best be shot, are the ones who set the bar for the public’s perception of who we are. I have a bad feeling that this is a losing game with the public and my kids will be the ones who are going to lose out connecting to the world in the way that only a hunter can.

I’ve been in too many situations with where one or two angry, loud, self righteous members of the public can push their agenda despite overwhelming public support for something. We are in a fight that is not 50% plus 1 - it’s media savvy idealists who know how to use a keyboard, use our words, and use our photos to make us look like neanderthals.

Hunting represents a key part of 50,000 years or so of modern human culture and it’s being supplanted by morals developed in the last 40. I don’t think there is an easy answer to this. There is nothing wrong with being a vegan - power too you if it’s your path - but please fall off your moral high horse. I don’t try to instill a feeling of guilt in vegans or non-hunters for not following a traditional life of finding sustenance by going out and hunting. So please don’t try to instill one in me and stop trying to take my traditions away.