Skeena North Moose - Proposed Regulation Changes (Please Comment)

[zurevins]

Hello all,

There are 3 additional regulation proposals (2018-2020) that have been posted to the Fish and Wildlife Branch Angling, Hunting, and Trapping Public Engagement Website (https://apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/ahte/) in regards to Moose regulations in the Northern Skeena MUs.

The three proposals are:

Posted in the Region 6 - Skeena section:

1) Skeena North Moose General Open Seasons
2) Stikine Moose LEH
3) Klappan Moose LEH

The deadline for public comments on these proposals is February 16, 2018.

I recommend everyone read carefully through the proposals being made and provide written comment to to the Fish and Wildlife Branch. Proposals are being made based off of "feelings" from certain user groups rather than sound science. I could elaborate more, but best to have a read and provide comments.

Regards

[Thunderstix]

Looking at the broader picture of BC, the amending of the vehicle weight restriction in the Muskwa Kechika is a huge one and has been a long time coming. I have been personally involved in that one and am pretty excited

[two-feet]

Reading the propsed changes depressed me. A likely scenario would have me unable to hunt some country ever again that I have enjoyed in the past.

The changes are brought on by social pressure, not conservation issues. This is the new normal, and not likely to change. Wait until these nations gain title.

[HappyJack]

Reading the propsed changes depressed me. A likely scenario would have me unable to hunt some country ever again that I have enjoyed in the past.

The changes are brought on by social pressure, not conservation issues. This is the new normal, and not likely to change. Wait until these nations gain title.

Bad choices are being made, rather than settling a treaty they sit on their hands until 'title' is won in the courts and then it's a different bag of marbles.

[pricedo]

Sounds familiar.
Unless you're an aboriginal you can pretty well forget hunting moose in ontario too.
Yah, they'll still take your money for entering an adult moose lottery that your odds of winning the 649 are better in.
Not surprised to see it going the same way in other provinces.
The rest of us had better get used to hunting chipmunks & sparrows with sling shots in our back yards.
I'm a 'wasp' in my mid 60s and will likely never hunt for an adult moose again.

[604redneck]

The whole province is a joke. I'll just wait till a civil war erupts and do my part. I'm in the yukon now and it's a little better but there are still alot of leaf licking snowflakes that cry till they get what they want. Maybe we really do need to do the same thing.

[markomoose]

The way I see it you restrict opportunities in certain areas you get more hunters in smaller areas.Back in the day 70's-80's there is opportunity all over the province hence you distribute hunters everywhere.I can go moose hunting in a "Good Area" and not see a moose for a week.

[HappyJack]

The way I see it you restrict opportunities in certain areas you get more hunters in smaller areas.Back in the day 70's-80's there is opportunity all over the province hence you distribute hunters everywhere.I can go moose hunting in a "Good Area" and not see a moose for a week.

That's because the wolves ate a bunch, and they starved some more by spraying herbicides all over their food source, and the trains killed a whole swack, and little johnny got the only spike fork in 50 square miles. Not much left to hunt.

[Wild one]

The way I see it you restrict opportunities in certain areas you get more hunters in smaller areas.Back in the day 70's-80's there is opportunity all over the province hence you distribute hunters everywhere.I can go moose hunting in a "Good Area" and not see a moose for a week.

Moose numbers down except opportunity to keep going down hill if trend continues.

[40incher]

Hello all,

There are 3 additional regulation proposals (2018-2020) that have been posted to the Fish and Wildlife Branch Angling, Hunting, and Trapping Public Engagement Website (https://apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/ahte/) in regards to Moose regulations in the Northern Skeena MUs.

The three proposals are:

Posted in the Region 6 - Skeena section:

1) Skeena North Moose General Open Seasons
2) Stikine Moose LEH
3) Klappan Moose LEH

The deadline for public comments on these proposals is February 16, 2018.

I recommend everyone read carefully through the proposals being made and provide written comment to to the Fish and Wildlife Branch. Proposals are being made based off of "feelings" from certain user groups rather than sound science. I could elaborate more, but best to have a read and provide comments.

Regards





Thanks for posting this.

Resident hunters are being screwed big time on the moose issue. To be clear, this is not a conservation issue or an issue of the FN's not being able to kill their section 35 moose in North Skeena. It is about the commercial trophy hunters getting their way.

They have used the FN's to push their commercial $$$ agenda at the expense of BC resident licensed hunters trying to feed their families. Should be embarrassed ... but of course they're not $$$.

The bureaucrats involved in this should all be fired for breach of trust. The have been playing a game for a few years now and pretending their was a "consultation process" to achieve their end result. When the Jade/Boulder area went to the tri palm/10 point regulation (trophy hunt) a few years ago their agenda was exposed ... now they have just proven how shallow they really are, and how they disrespect BC's resident licensed hunters. Time they were gone!

The AHTE is a bureaucratic waste of time. Contact the Minister and your MLA and demand they explain why they are supporting non-resident trophy hunting in North Skeena at the expense of BC resident "sustenance" hunters. Licensed resident hunters should have priority over commercial $$$ trophy hunting.

[HappyJack]

Thanks for posting this.

Resident hunters are being screwed big time on the moose issue. To be clear, this is not a conservation issue or an issue of the FN's not being able to kill their section 35 moose in North Skeena. It is about the commercial trophy hunters getting their way.

They have used the FN's to push their commercial $$$ agenda at the expense of BC resident licensed hunters trying to feed their families. Should be embarrassed ... but of course they're not $$$.

The bureaucrats involved in this should all be fired for breach of trust. The have been playing a game for a few years now and pretending their was a "consultation process" to achieve their end result. When the Jade/Boulder area went to the tri palm/10 point regulation (trophy hunt) a few years ago their agenda was exposed ... now they have just proven how shallow they really are, and how they disrespect BC's resident licensed hunters. Time they were gone!

The AHTE is a bureaucratic waste of time. Contact the Minister and your MLA and demand they explain why they are supporting non-resident trophy hunting in North Skeena at the expense of BC resident "sustenance" hunters. Licensed resident hunters should have priority over commercial $$$ trophy hunting.

The first cuts should be the trophy hunters.....I like the way you think.

[boxhitch]

Option #1


Meeting Objective #1:

This option aligns with the adjacent WMUs in the Peace region, so it should help alleviate some increased hunter pressure from areas of the Province with more restrictive moose season regulations
This option should help alleviate some of the potential waterbed effect that may result from proposed regulation changes in the south.
The option will reduce harvest, while not limiting hunting opportunity.




Meeting Objective #2:

This option excludes licensed hunters from taking middle age-class bull moose in the northern portion of the Skeena Region for most of the season, providing a class of bulls for First Nations to exclusively harvest.



Option #2


Meeting Objective #1:

This option creates restriction in the ‘frontcountry’ which aligns with the regulations in the Peace region, and may discourage the increased hunter pressure resulting from more restrictive moose season regulations in other parts of the Province.
This option should help alleviate some of the potential waterbed effect due to regulation changes in the south.
The option will reduce harvest, while not limiting hunting opportunity.


Meeting Objective #2: This option excludes licensed hunters from taking middle age-class bull moose in the ‘frontcountry’ portion of the northern portion of the Skeena Region where the primary competition with First Nations is occurring. In addition the SOFT-10 maintains a class of bulls for First Nations to exclusively harvest within their high cultural use areas.

similar reasoning to the original 400 m road closures nightmare but likely easier to enforce

[the_longwalker]

The proposed changes to the moose hunting regulations presented here are to address land use conflict, be proactive in addressing increased hunter pressure from increased restrictions in other parts of the Region and Province, and are not focused on an immediate conservation concern. Of note, First Nations are reporting lower numbers of moose in the region.

There it is in black and white, kids. Apparently, I have moved up North for no reason now.

[Avalanche123]

The proposed changes to the moose hunting regulations presented here are to address land use conflict, be proactive in addressing increased hunter pressure from increased restrictions in other parts of the Region and Province, and are not focused on an immediate conservation concern. Of note, First Nations are reporting lower numbers of moose in the region.

There it is in black and white, kids. Apparently, I have moved up North for no reason now.

Welcome to NW BC. Not sure how you could say no reason...You have a GOS goat open late right in your back yard. Todagin bowhunting is really close to you...and then there is the fishing! Lots of other good reasons to be happy with your move. :)

[the_longwalker]

Welcome to NW BC. Not sure how you could say no reason...You have a GOS goat open late right in your back yard. Todagin bowhunting is really close to you...and then there is the fishing! Lots of other good reasons to be happy with your move. :)

Okay, sorry I was being a bit dramatic. You are right. It still gets me cranky though.......

[swampthing]

Looking at the broader picture of BC, the amending of the vehicle weight restriction in the Muskwa Kechika is a huge one and has been a long time coming. I have been personally involved in that one and am pretty excited

What are the proposed amendments to the weight restriction?

[decker9]

It’s sad knowing these changes will make very little difference to the population, and only regulates “some people”. After this winter, moose will be even more slim pickings, in all my life in 6-04, this is the most snow Iv ever seen here, and still coming down.

[boxhitch]

What are the proposed amendments to the weight restriction?

This proposal:



replaces the term “ATV” with “Registered Off Road Vehicle”, which allows for the use of Utility Terrain Vehicles and purpose built off-road trailers
increases the maximum weight limit from 500 kg to 750 kg
Reduces the allowable distance from the midline of the road/trail from 400m to 10m in all instances where 400m is permitted
allows for operators of registered Off Road Vehicles to go beyond 10m distance from the midline of the designated road/trail to bypass impassable features or to access an established camp




off topic, but still important

[Wild one]

It’s sad knowing these changes will make very little difference to the population, and only regulates “some people”. After this winter, moose will be even more slim pickings, in all my life in 6-04, this is the most snow Iv ever seen here, and still coming down.

In southern 6 I would agree the bull only season/bull only LEH is not the issue with moose

Was just starting to see a slight rebound in moose do to mild winters but think this winter is going to knock them right back down

[geo guy]

I actually dont mind option 2 that much. My issue with option two is the high cultral use areas, if those are removed I think this would be fair. It would open up prime rut hunting along the roadways creating more oppurtunities to hunt while also limiting the the harvest. It also does not change the backcountry areas for those who fly or horseback in to hunt where there is significantly less pressure.

Option 1 is complete rubbish and should not even be considered.

If they want to limit our moose hunting further they need to first restrict guide outfitters and First Nation groups as well.

[Caribou_lou]

A complete Joke. Catering to the Guide Trophy Hunters and FN Cow Killers.

[Avalanche123]

A complete Joke. Catering to the Guide Trophy Hunters and FN Cow Killers.

I disagree. The amount of pressure in this neck of the woods has been going up steadily. It's not a complete Joke, it is reality. Whether is is Outfitter or FN driven is a moot point IMHO. The increased pressure is very very noticeable. Times are changing as we all now.

[BromBones]

The way I see it you restrict opportunities in certain areas you get more hunters in smaller areas.Back in the day 70's-80's there is opportunity all over the province hence you distribute hunters everywhere.I can go moose hunting in a "Good Area" and not see a moose for a week.

That's part of the push behind the Skeena North restrictions, they are worried that shortening the Skeena South any bull season to 3 days will put more pressure in northern regions. That and the natives need their ceremonial rights upheld. :)

"Currently, Skeena North is the only area in the Province with an extended GOS for any bull (the Peace region has a short any bull GOS preceding the antler restricted seasons), which could lead to more resident hunters travelling to Skeena North to hunt moose. Furthermore, proposed regulation changes in Skeena South (see regulation submission form for Moose – South Skeena) could intensify that potential ‘waterbed effect’, which could increase resident hunter pressure to this part of the region. Skeena North has few roads and these roads are used extensively by First Nations people to fulfill their food, social, and ceremonial rights to hunt moose."

[Caribou_lou]

Has the hunting pressure been going up? Are we meeting our Annual Allowable Harvest?

[40incher]

That's part of the push behind the Skeena North restrictions, they are worried that shortening the Skeena South any bull season to 3 days will put more pressure in northern regions. That and the natives need their ceremonial rights upheld. :)

"Currently, Skeena North is the only area in the Province with an extended GOS for any bull (the Peace region has a short any bull GOS preceding the antler restricted seasons), which could lead to more resident hunters travelling to Skeena North to hunt moose. Furthermore, proposed regulation changes in Skeena South (see regulation submission form for Moose – South Skeena) could intensify that potential ‘waterbed effect’, which could increase resident hunter pressure to this part of the region. Skeena North has few roads and these roads are used extensively by First Nations people to fulfill their food, social, and ceremonial rights to hunt moose."


Good to see the guide apologists rear their heads ... Not!!

You commercial $$$ killers for hire should be embarrassed. You can't even leave the meat species like moose alone because your trophy-hunting clientele will pay major coin $$$ to kill a bull for the antlers and cape and could care less about the 800 pounds of meat.

The FN's can hunt 12 months a year ... and the commercial killers have used them to their own ends. That being "get rid of the licensed BC resident hunters looking to feed their families". We have lost most of our opportunities already (down to 30 days from 90 days of GOS, access restrictions, etc ...) ... but you guys will never be happy. Any FN who can't kill a moose in Skeena North, under a 12-month unlimited season is a true "Conservationist" indeed ... in their own words "Shitty Hunter".

Your greed $$$ and lack of ability to share will be your downfall.

[BromBones]

Good to see the guide apologists rear their heads ... Not!!

You commercial $$$ killers for hire should be embarrassed. You can't even leave the meat species like moose alone because your trophy-hunting clientele will pay major coin $$$ to kill a bull for the antlers and cape and could care less about the 800 pounds of meat.

The FN's can hunt 12 months a year ... and the commercial killers have used them to their own ends. That being "get rid of the licensed BC resident hunters looking to feed their families". We have lost most of our opportunities already (down to 30 days from 90 days of GOS, access restrictions, etc ...) ... but you guys will never be happy. Any FN who can't kill a moose in Skeena North, under a 12-month unlimited season is a true "Conservationist" indeed ... in their own words "Shitty Hunter".

Your greed $$$ and lack of ability to share will be your downfall.

Me?? Settle down there Hoss.

I'm a resident hunter. I'm pissed about all the restrictions coming down the pipe. My previous post was simply paraphrasing the Govt's justification on the Skeena North seasons. Learn to comprehend what you read before you go off.

[f350ps]

Good to see the guide apologists rear their heads ... Not!!

You commercial $$$ killers for hire should be embarrassed. You can't even leave the meat species like moose alone because your trophy-hunting clientele will pay major coin $$$ to kill a bull for the antlers and cape and could care less about the 800 pounds of meat.

The FN's can hunt 12 months a year ... and the commercial killers have used them to their own ends. That being "get rid of the licensed BC resident hunters looking to feed their families". We have lost most of our opportunities already (down to 30 days from 90 days of GOS, access restrictions, etc ...) ... but you guys will never be happy. Any FN who can't kill a moose in Skeena North, under a 12-month unlimited season is a true "Conservationist" indeed ... in their own words "Shitty Hunter".

Your greed $$$ and lack of ability to share will be your downfall.
Very well said 40 Incher, and the same sentiments as all BC Resident hunters but I think ya directed it at the wrong guy, call your MLA! K

[HappyJack]

I actually dont mind option 2 that much. My issue with option two is the high cultral use areas, if those are removed I think this would be fair. It would open up prime rut hunting along the roadways creating more oppurtunities to hunt while also limiting the the harvest. It also does not change the backcountry areas for those who fly or horseback in to hunt where there is significantly less pressure.

Option 1 is complete rubbish and should not even be considered.

If they want to limit our moose hunting further they need to first restrict guide outfitters and First Nation groups as well.

FNs make up what about 10% of the population in Region 6? Let them have exclusive rights to hunt 10% of the land base then, wouldn't that be the fair thing to do? Seems more democratic to me, and in no way stops them from exercising their rights.

[Avalanche123]

Has the hunting pressure been going up? Are we meeting our Annual Allowable Harvest?

I don't have specific details on what the actual effect is on the moose population in Skeena "north" but yes the hunting pressure has increased. By how much, I am unsure but the amount of hunters hunting north of the Skeena has definitely increased.
BromBones pretty much hits the nail on the head IMHO.
My opinion has little do to with FN rights or GO opportunities. Perhaps MoE is actually looking forward and taking a proactive approach?

[two-feet]

The guiding document for all of these changes goung forward is UNDRIP or United Nations Declaration of Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

Love it or hate it, this is the new normal.

[two-feet]

They are getting exclusive right to a certain age class of bull, on a piece of land far smaller than 10%. It just happens to be the only easy access to the moose.

[Caribou_lou]

I don't have specific details on what the actual effect is on the moose population in Skeena "north" but yes the hunting pressure has increased. By how much, I am unsure but the amount of hunters hunting north of the Skeena has definitely increased.
BromBones pretty much hits the nail on the head IMHO.
My opinion has little do to with FN rights or GO opportunities. Perhaps MoE is actually looking forward and taking a proactive approach?

Well, all I know is that Bull to Cow Ratios are through the roof. Even if pressure is high Residents can only harvest Bulls. And If you take a gander at Google Maps youll see that there really isnt much access. So Residents are not only just harvesting Bulls, They will only harvest Moose so far off the beaten path.

Let's make decisions based on science not opinions.

[Caribou_lou]

Ive also heard that FNs are in support of CI inspections for Skeena North. But they are unwilling to participate in reporting their harvests...

[Deadshot]

If they won't partake in the science, then they should not be allowed to drive for any change.
No compliance. No change!
The whole road access thing is a piss off also. What did they do "culturally" before the roads were there? Probably worked at little harder.
They say "jump" and the government says "how high?"


Ive also heard that FNs are in support of CI inspections for Skeena North. But they are unwilling to participate in reporting their harvests...

[m5wilson]

First post here, but seeing a lot of what seems to be going on made me want to join. Commented on the proposed regulations hoping every little bit counts.

[Bugle M In]

Thanks for posting this.

Resident hunters are being screwed big time on the moose issue. To be clear, this is not a conservation issue or an issue of the FN's not being able to kill their section 35 moose in North Skeena. It is about the commercial trophy hunters getting their way.

They have used the FN's to push their commercial $$$ agenda at the expense of BC resident licensed hunters trying to feed their families. Should be embarrassed ... but of course they're not $$$.

The bureaucrats involved in this should all be fired for breach of trust. The have been playing a game for a few years now and pretending their was a "consultation process" to achieve their end result. When the Jade/Boulder area went to the tri palm/10 point regulation (trophy hunt) a few years ago their agenda was exposed ... now they have just proven how shallow they really are, and how they disrespect BC's resident licensed hunters. Time they were gone!

The AHTE is a bureaucratic waste of time. Contact the Minister and your MLA and demand they explain why they are supporting non-resident trophy hunting in North Skeena at the expense of BC resident "sustenance" hunters. Licensed resident hunters should have priority over commercial $$$ trophy hunting.

hmmm, when I spoke with heyman (ndp enviro minister) during the run up to election, he told me that they were going to "support residents" more so then any other group (well, other then FN), when it comes to "meat hunting".
Funny, he was around to shut down GBear, but I don't see him helping "us" out now.
Just more BS from the ministry, the people in it, and just another party that doesn't care about us resident hunters.

[Avalanche123]

Well, all I know is that Bull to Cow Ratios are through the roof. Even if pressure is high Residents can only harvest Bulls. And If you take a gander at Google Maps youll see that there really isnt much access. So Residents are not only just harvesting Bulls, They will only harvest Moose so far off the beaten path.

Let's make decisions based on science not opinions.

I don't need to look at goggle maps. I know the area well.
I do agree...science based decisions are best. I don't really get your point though....sure it may be high now....but....

[40incher]

To be completely clear, these regulation changes are 100% unfounded ... they are a wet dream of the commercial $$$ killers and the biased bureaucrats. They have gotten this far only because they were enabled as such by Crispy and now the NDP. There motives were different but the result is the same.

Crispy and the Liberals wanted to buy off the FN's for approval of gas pipelines and corporate resource extraction. Moose were the beads and trinkets let's say. The NDP inherited the bureaucratic dysfunction and are afraid to deal with it. As a result, BC's licensed resident hunters are thrown under the bus to appease those that trophy hunt for moose. To waste 800 pounds of meat to take 60 pounds of antlers is disgusting.

I think 12 months of unlimited access to moose is adequate to satisfy the FN' "needs". As I have said, they have been used in this phony process.

Contact the Minister directly to protect one of our last GOS options for moose in BC. The NDP promised us they would change the Crispy/Liberal allocation directive so as to give resident hunters priority over the commercial $$$ killers. The AHTE website is a total waste of time that only enables the bureaucrats and anti hunters ... you don't even need to be a BC resident or a real hunter to comment.

Time to get political and get the truth out there.

[BromBones]

Ive also heard that FNs are in support of CI inspections for Skeena North. But they are unwilling to participate in reporting their harvests...

Have heard the same thing. It was a request to the Tahltan 5 or 6 years ago when the Klappan season was first shortened, but they just ignore it. The bands don't care how many moose they take - cows, calves, bulls, doesn't matter.

They just want resident hunters out. Period.

[Caribou_lou]

I don't need to look at goggle maps. I know the area well.
I do agree...science based decisions are best. I don't really get your point though....sure it may be high now....but....

99 % of region goes untouched when it comes to moose hunting. If Bull to Cow ratio is high now with constantly Increasing pressure, it going to stay that way.

[Caribou_lou]

Have heard the same thing. It was a request to the Tahltan 5 or 6 years ago when the Klappan season was first shortened, but they just ignore it. The bands don't care how many moose they take - cows, calves, bulls, doesn't matter.

They just want resident hunters out. Period.

Well, as I see it. The Guides want us out, The FNs want us out. Ministry could care less about Resident hunters. 3 out of 4 groups are happy. 3 out of 4 groups sat around a table and came up with the proposals

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Well, all I know is that Bull to Cow Ratios are through the roof. Even if pressure is high Residents can only harvest Bulls. And If you take a gander at Google Maps youll see that there really isnt much access. So Residents are not only just harvesting Bulls, They will only harvest Moose so far off the beaten path.

Let's make decisions based on science not opinions.

I recall someone posting the Bull to cow ratios on the Klappan after the blockades went up. Ridiculously high from what I can recall....and that was on two subsequent counts. The local don't like competition???

[BromBones]

I recall someone posting the Bull to cow ratios on the Klappan after the blockades went up. Ridiculously high from what I can recall....and that was on two subsequent counts. The local don't like competition???

80:100 is what I was told by the Skeena bio. That was right after the first blockades went up.

Locals definitely don't like competition for moose, which is funny because they hunt them in the winter on sleds & by vehicle in the spring as soon as the road opens up.

[SpottedPony]

80:100 is what I was told by the Skeena bio. That was right after the first blockades went up.

Locals definitely don't like competition for moose, which is funny because they hunt them in the winter on sleds & by vehicle in the spring as soon as the road opens up.

Is it possible to have a 80:100 bull/cow ratio on a hunted population of moose with a licensed season for bulls only?
With numbers like that it would be suspect that either very few bulls are being harvested or an almost equal number of cows are being killed.
I wonder if all the counts were carried out using the same methods to ensure an accurate comparison.
What’s the overall moose population done, gone up, gone down or held steady?
Those would be some interesting questions to ask that bio.

[two-feet]

Is it possible to have a 80:100 bull/cow ratio on a hunted population of moose with a licensed season for bulls only?
With numbers like that it would be suspect that either very few bulls are being harvested or an almost equal number of cows are being killed.
I wonder if all the counts were carried out using the same methods to ensure an accurate comparison.
What’s the overall moose population done, gone up, gone down or held steady?
Those would be some interesting questions to ask that bio.

These changes have ZERO to do with population/ratios/conservation. Its all social management.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Is it possible to have a 80:100 bull/cow ratio on a hunted population of moose with a licensed season for bulls only?
With numbers like that it would be suspect that either very few bulls are being harvested or an almost equal number of cows are being killed.
I wonder if all the counts were carried out using the same methods to ensure an accurate comparison.
What’s the overall moose population done, gone up, gone down or held steady?
Those would be some interesting questions to ask that bio.

Access to the Klappan is ONE ROAD in a vast, vast area. Might be a few fly in lakes but harvest would be very minimal in the big picture.

As two-feet said, it's social management.

[Fisher-Dude]

I disagree. The amount of pressure in this neck of the woods has been going up steadily. It's not a complete Joke, it is reality. Whether is is Outfitter or FN driven is a moot point IMHO. The increased pressure is very very noticeable. Times are changing as we all now.

Not really. Region 6:

Average moose hunters 1970s = 6498
Average moose hunters 1980s = 5146
Average moose hunters 1990s = 5092
Average moose hunters 2000s = 4296

Region 6 moose hunter numbers have been going steadily downward.

Reality and perception are often two different things.

[SpottedPony]

Not really. Region 6:

Average moose hunters 1970s = 6498
Average moose hunters 1980s = 5146
Average moose hunters 1990s = 5092
Average moose hunters 2000s = 4296

Region 6 moose hunter numbers have been going steadily downward.

Reality and perception are often two different things.

That doesn’t really make sense, unless the numbers you are using are based on all of Region 6.
Then again if your numbers are for the entire region and you factor in all the limited hunts available in parts of the region it is possible that hunters have shifted to the areas that are still open to moose hunters that do not have to draw a tag.
It still seems odd that the bull/cow ratio in Skeena North is 80:100 unless the area being inventoried has a large number of cow moose being killed as well as bulls.
The numbers don’t make sense unless the entire moose population is being hunted and if that’s the case shouldn’t we as concerned individuals be asking the bio’s in that region what the overall inventory is and if the population is dropping, what is going on?
The other possibility could be that even thow overall hunter numbers have dropped by one third, as your numbers show, is it a reality that hunter efficiency has increased due to increased access and technology in the time period you are quoting the hunter numbers from?
From what I can see, Region 6 North was not highly accessible 40 to 50 years ago but maybe I’m wrong and there are less hunters going there today than in the past.
Trying to wrap my head around some facts and numbers that just don’t make sense.

[deer nut]

604redneck:

Nothing wrong with licking leaves if you ventured far on a hunt and you're out of water..... ;) And if moose hunting goes bye bye in the Yukon, there really is no hope!

IMO, we need to continue and increase our education of non hunters and stay polite and engaged with antis. I know there are also many newbies being trained weekly; companies are pumping them out now! (Not like the old days when you had to find one of the old-timers from the range to take the FAC test!).

Hopefully these "Hipster hunters" help our cause, (though I have not enjoyed them following me 'cuz they don't know where to hunt).

Bottom line is we need to continue hunting, showing the benefits and relevance of our chosen pursuit, and mentoring new hunters well versed in ethics and conservation.

[HarryToolips]

^^^well said.....we need to get the BC Liberals in fast before the NDGreenies screw everything up on us....

[SpottedPony]

^^^well said.....we need to get the BC Liberals in fast before the NDGreenies screw everything up on us....
Reading back thru old threads on this site my belief was that hunters were firmly in support of Mr Horgan and the NDP.
To take it even into more depth isn’t AJ Weaver, one of the contributors to this site the other half of our current coalition in power as we speak. He has a following on here so why would anyone want to see them gone and those damn non resident hunter supporting Liberals put back in power?
I don’t get it, we got what we wanted.

[Wild one]

Not really. Region 6:

Average moose hunters 1970s = 6498
Average moose hunters 1980s = 5146
Average moose hunters 1990s = 5092
Average moose hunters 2000s = 4296

Region 6 moose hunter numbers have been going steadily downward.

Reality and perception are often two different things.


If this is for all of 6 it should be no surprise. Really what you are offering for data is lacking supporting data to be even relevant

Change in overall hunter numbers and more restrictive seasons would be factors involved. Region 6 is a huge area and no doubt there has been a change in what parts of region 6 sees the majority of hunters. I would bet hunters were more spread out in the past

I only understand moose issues in part of southern 6 and would say legal hunting is not the issue but moose numbers are declining. This winter is really going to beat them down though. 5+ feet of snow and limited places left with big timber to avoid the depth of snow not good. Confident ungulate population decline is the result this winter for this area

Northern 6 don’t have enough info or experience to comment on so I won’t touch it.

[Avalanche123]

Not really. Region 6:

Average moose hunters 1970s = 6498
Average moose hunters 1980s = 5146
Average moose hunters 1990s = 5092
Average moose hunters 2000s = 4296

Region 6 moose hunter numbers have been going steadily downward.

Reality and perception are often two different things.

There are 30 MU in Region 6.
6-19 through 6-22 are the MU's my anecdotal evidence is in reference too. As I said IMHO. And again it is based on "boots on the ground" opinion....the vehicle hunter traffic has gone up judging by what I have seen in my 30 years up here.

[two-feet]

There is no doubt that it is very busy in 6 north. Every road/trailhead/boat launch is stuffed with people. Because access points are so few they act as funnel points for all the hunters. Even on a fly in hunt it can get crowded.

[HappyJack]

Not really. Region 6:

Average moose hunters 1970s = 6498
Average moose hunters 1980s = 5146
Average moose hunters 1990s = 5092
Average moose hunters 2000s = 4296

Region 6 moose hunter numbers have been going steadily downward.

Reality and perception are often two different things.


Come on now, as if hunters that hunt region 6 tell everyone where they hunt. I guess they could have done a hunter count in a square mile and extrapolated it?

[Fisher-Dude]

That doesn’t really make sense, unless the numbers you are using are based on all of Region 6.
Then again if your numbers are for the entire region and you factor in all the limited hunts available in parts of the region it is possible that hunters have shifted to the areas that are still open to moose hunters that do not have to draw a tag.
It still seems odd that the bull/cow ratio in Skeena North is 80:100 unless the area being inventoried has a large number of cow moose being killed as well as bulls.
The numbers don’t make sense unless the entire moose population is being hunted and if that’s the case shouldn’t we as concerned individuals be asking the bio’s in that region what the overall inventory is and if the population is dropping, what is going on?
The other possibility could be that even thow overall hunter numbers have dropped by one third, as your numbers show, is it a reality that hunter efficiency has increased due to increased access and technology in the time period you are quoting the hunter numbers from?
From what I can see, Region 6 North was not highly accessible 40 to 50 years ago but maybe I’m wrong and there are less hunters going there today than in the past.
Trying to wrap my head around some facts and numbers that just don’t make sense.

Average days/kill 1970s = 23.
Average days/kill 1980s = 25.
Average days/kill 1990s = 22.
Average days/kill 2000s = 22.

That's about as statistically flat for 40+ years as you'll ever see.

We're not more efficient.

[Fisher-Dude]

There are 30 MU in Region 6.
6-19 through 6-22 are the MU's my anecdotal evidence is in reference too. As I said IMHO. And again it is based on "boots on the ground" opinion....the vehicle hunter traffic has gone up judging by what I have seen in my 30 years up here.


The MUs you reference have seen hunter numbers go from an average of 93/MU to 105/MU. You're telling us that you can notice the difference of 12 hunters per 2 month long season in a whole MU?

[Caribou_lou]

Not really. Region 6:

Average moose hunters 1970s = 6498
Average moose hunters 1980s = 5146
Average moose hunters 1990s = 5092
Average moose hunters 2000s = 4296

Region 6 moose hunter numbers have been going steadily downward.

Reality and perception are often two different things.

I always enjoy seeing actual numbers like these. and ratios like 80:100 Bull to Cow ratios.

Numbers have been going down but may seem more crowded when areas have gone from a 90 days season to 30 days in some parts of region 6.

[HarryToolips]

Reading back thru old threads on this site my belief was that hunters were firmly in support of Mr Horgan and the NDP.
To take it even into more depth isn’t AJ Weaver, one of the contributors to this site the other half of our current coalition in power as we speak. He has a following on here so why would anyone want to see them gone and those damn non resident hunter supporting Liberals put back in power?
I don’t get it, we got what we wanted.
Not going to get into it too much, but yes the Liberals did stab us in the back but they would've been the best government for hunters in BC, as they were going to get us what we need the most - a dedicated funding plan... and they were going to allow game to be managed scientifically, not out of emotion, like cancelling the griz hunt..feel free to PM me if you have more questions..

[Piperdown]

Spotted Pony is trolling a wee bit me thinks

[SpottedPony]

Spotted Pony is trolling a wee bit me thinks
No SpottedPony isn’t trolling, I’m simply trying to get a feel for the messaging being put out in this thread. Reading back at threads from the past it strikes me that the contributors on this forum are a disgruntled group with little to agree on. In the past the Liberals were on the outs with many of the posters on this site while the NDP and AJ Weaver were held in high regard. Now after only a few short months of NDP/Weaver leadership the tide has changed and many asking for a return of the Liberals who sold out the resident meat hunters in favour of giving more to the guides. The NDP and Weaver haven’t really given much away. All they did was cancel the grizzly hunt as the Liberals were already proposing to partially do anyway. That didn’t really take too much meat out of the provincial food supply, the only real loss I can see from that cancelled hunt is the monetary loss to the commercial hunters. It’s a pretty goofy closure anyways with our indeginouse community still able to hunt the bears. I guess that would have to be called a racial closure of the hunt.You can’t blame the NDP and Weaver for keeping the grizzly hunt open to our native people, that’s a decision made by Mr Trudeau.
As for the numbers posted for the number of hunters in region 6, the question to ask ourselves does it really show what’s going on or is it really just a whitewashed portrayal to disregard the truth. Any good accountant can tell you that the books can be doctored to put forth the numbers that best suit your wishes. When you read about the implementation of LEH seasons, the outright closure of other areas and the declining moose population province wide it’s really hard to believe that hunters are still as evenly spread out in region 6 or for that matter anywhere in the province as they were in the 1970’s.
To me it seems there are many unanswered questions and simply saying everything is still the same can not be the true message but moreso a numerical game coverup.

[snipersights]

Does anyone actually use meat for ceremonial purposes anymore???? Is that even a thing?

[Wild one]

Does anyone actually use meat for ceremonial purposes anymore???? Is that even a thing?

Some still do and moose nose is a dish involved at times

[Wild one]

No SpottedPony isn’t trolling, I’m simply trying to get a feel for the messaging being put out in this thread. Reading back at threads from the past it strikes me that the contributors on this forum are a disgruntled group with little to agree on. In the past the Liberals were on the outs with many of the posters on this site while the NDP and AJ Weaver were held in high regard. Now after only a few short months of NDP/Weaver leadership the tide has changed and many asking for a return of the Liberals who sold out the resident meat hunters in favour of giving more to the guides. The NDP and Weaver haven’t really given much away. All they did was cancel the grizzly hunt as the Liberals were already proposing to partially do anyway. That didn’t really take too much meat out of the provincial food supply, the only real loss I can see from that cancelled hunt is the monetary loss to the commercial hunters. It’s a pretty goofy closure anyways with our indeginouse community still able to hunt the bears. I guess that would have to be called a racial closure of the hunt.You can’t blame the NDP and Weaver for keeping the grizzly hunt open to our native people, that’s a decision made by Mr Trudeau.
As for the numbers posted for the number of hunters in region 6, the question to ask ourselves does it really show what’s going on or is it really just a whitewashed portrayal to disregard the truth. Any good accountant can tell you that the books can be doctored to put forth the numbers that best suit your wishes. When you read about the implementation of LEH seasons, the outright closure of other areas and the declining moose population province wide it’s really hard to believe that hunters are still as evenly spread out in region 6 or for that matter anywhere in the province as they were in the 1970’s.
To me it seems there are many unanswered questions and simply saying everything is still the same can not be the true message but moreso a numerical game coverup.


Have to agree that hunter numbers are only one small part of the equation. Many other factors changed over that time frame as well

This is a poor incomplete argument against changes to northern 6.

With my lack of knowledge of the area and moose populations there I cannot stand for or against the changes. That said those who oppose the changes need a better argument with facts beyond hunter numbers

Personally I believe there could be better options then the proposed changes though

[sawmill]

Does anyone actually use meat for ceremonial purposes anymore???? Is that even a thing?

Yes it is actually. After 15 years of living in Hazelton I have seen many FN guys who shoot 15-20 every fall and winter and sell them to White Guy in the bar. This finances the booze for the ceremony. They cause the season to be shut down to a week up there because the Government "Seriously under estimated the impact of the Native harvest" That was in 1999. Like a guy (FN) who worked in the sawmill with me who made $80,000 a year running the Link line who came to work bragging how he shot 3 pregnant cows on the weekend. In March. They each had twin calves inside. Aparantly moose fetus is a delicacy.
Stewards of the land.

[Wild one]

Yes it is actually. After 15 years of living in Hazelton I have seen many FN guys who shoot 15-20 every fall and winter and sell them to White Guy in the bar. This finances the booze for the ceremony. They cause the season to be shut down to a week up there because the Government "Seriously under estimated the impact of the Native harvest" That was in 1999. Like a guy (FN) who worked in the sawmill with me who made $80,000 a year running the Link line who came to work bragging how he shot 3 pregnant cows on the weekend. In March. They each had twin calves inside. Aparantly moose fetus is a delicacy.
Stewards of the land.

No doubt some FNs are in this category and some areas it’s a big issue. Unfortunately the ones that are bad can be to the extreme

Ceremony purpose this category does not fit into

[Avalanche123]

The MUs you reference have seen hunter numbers go from an average of 93/MU to 105/MU. You're telling us that you can notice the difference of 12 hunters per 2 month long season in a whole MU?


I don't know where u get your numbers. I am implying telling you what I notice. Please note I said "anecdotal" evidence....Why do you always feel the need to prove people wrong? Honestly I do think we are on the same team...at least I would hope so.

[HappyJack]

I always enjoy seeing actual numbers like these. and ratios like 80:100 Bull to Cow ratios.

Numbers have been going down but may seem more crowded when areas have gone from a 90 days season to 30 days in some parts of region 6.

Those numbers are meaningless....I hunted in Region 6 and nobody but my immediate family knew we were there. How many thousands are in the same category?

[HappyJack]

I don't know where u get your numbers. I am implying telling you what I notice. Please note I said "anecdotal" evidence....Why do you always feel the need to prove people wrong? Honestly I do think we are on the same team...at least I would hope so.

made them up, blowing smoke, take your pick.

[HarryToolips]

Yes it is actually. After 15 years of living in Hazelton I have seen many FN guys who shoot 15-20 every fall and winter and sell them to White Guy in the bar. This finances the booze for the ceremony. They cause the season to be shut down to a week up there because the Government "Seriously under estimated the impact of the Native harvest" That was in 1999. Like a guy (FN) who worked in the sawmill with me who made $80,000 a year running the Link line who came to work bragging how he shot 3 pregnant cows on the weekend. In March. They each had twin calves inside. Aparantly moose fetus is a delicacy.
Stewards of the land.
The real sad thing is, these individuals would know that such an action would cause their ancestors, who cared so much for wildlife and the land, to roll in their graves..and they obviously don't care..

[bigredchev]

Still time Make your voice heard

[Piperdown]

Some still do and moose nose is a dish involved at times

They must as i found a bull this year with the nose missing and only the hind quarters taken

[mooseknuckler]

Probably won't make a difference as the current government seems hell bound on running this great province into the ground, but I did post comments on the 3 proposed changes....