Grizz Hunt Abolished Throughout Province

[ROY-alty33]

The British Columbia government is bringing an end to the hunting of grizzly bears throughout the province, Doug Donaldson, Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development, and George Heyman, Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy, announced today.
“Through consultations this past fall, we have listened to what British Columbians have to say on this issue and it is abundantly clear that the grizzly hunt is not in line with their values,” Donaldson said. “Our government continues to support hunting in this province and recognizes our hunting heritage is of great importance to many British Columbians.”
The spring grizzly bear hunt was scheduled to open on April 1, 2018, but the ban on hunting for resident and non-resident hunters takes effect immediately.
“Our government is committed to improving wildlife management in B.C., and today’s announcement, along with a focused grizzly bear management plan, are the first steps in protecting one of our most iconic species,” Heyman said. “We also want to promote the healthy grizzly bear viewing economy in B.C. and give everyone the tremendous opportunity to see these incredible animals in their natural habitat.”
“After years of work on this file, my colleagues and I are absolutely overjoyed this decision has finally been made,” said Adam Olsen, Green MLA for Saanich North and the Islands. “The results of the consultation were clear and government has listened. We couldn’t be more thrilled.”
In August 2017, government announced that, effective Nov. 30, 2017, it would end trophy hunting of grizzly bears and stop all hunting of grizzly bears in the Great Bear Rainforest. Government also announced it would launch a consultation process on regulations to support a sustenance hunt, while ending the trophy hunt.
Through the consultation process with First Nations, stakeholder groups and the public, 78% of respondents recommended the hunt be stopped entirely.
First Nations will still be able to harvest grizzly bears pursuant to Aboriginal rights for food, social, or ceremonial purposes, or treaty rights.
There are an estimated 15,000 grizzly bears in British Columbia.
Provincial government staff will be implementing recommendations from the recent Auditor General report on grizzly bear management. The government will also be moving forward with a broader consultation process on a renewed wildlife management strategy for the province in the new year.
A backgrounder follows.

[ROY-alty33]

In August 2017, the Government of British Columbia made a public commitment to close the grizzly bear hunt in the Great Bear Rainforest and end grizzly bear trophy hunting in the remainder of the province after the 2017 fall grizzly bear hunt concluded on Nov. 30, 2017.
Two policy intent papers were developed and made available to key stakeholder groups and First Nations for their input, and several meetings were held. A total of 4,180 emails were received. Very few respondents simply supported the ban on the trophy hunt as proposed. The majority of responses were from those requesting that government “ban grizzly bear hunting in all parts of the province”.
Emails and letters were also sent to wildlife stakeholders and non-government organizations involved in grizzly bear research and management. Several meetings were held with most of these organizations and some letters were also received. Many of the same issues that were raised during public engagement were also raised by stakeholders.
Emails and letters were also sent to more than 200 First Nations throughout the province regarding the grizzly bear trophy hunting ban. This included 41 First Nations that either overlap or are adjacent to the Great Bear Rainforest. Meetings were also set up with First Nations. Treaty First Nations will continue to be able to harvest grizzly bears and possess all parts of grizzly bears when the harvest is done, pursuant to treaty rights.
Summary of Feedback - The issues raised, in descending order of frequency, included:


Hunt is no longer appropriate
Too many loopholes in the proposed regulations
Wasteful to leave anything behind after an animal is killed
Lack of significance of the meat hunt for grizzly bears
Economics of grizzly bear hunting
Hunting as a management tool
Population dynamics of grizzly bear
Need to focus on habitat management of grizzly bear
Urban/rural split around grizzly bear hunting
Hunting by First Nations
Lack of enforcement
Trophy terminology

A more comprehensive summary report is being prepared for later release.

[S.W.A.T.]

Can't wait to see how many are going to get mauled now. Pretty sure this is how the ndp are trying to stay in the good books of the greens

[Bugle M In]

Title says it all folks....
https://twitter.com/search?q=grizzly+hunt+british+columbia&ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Ese arch

[bcsteve]

Just saw that, not surprised. The way they had previously announced it that meat hunting would be allowed but the skull,hide and claws would have to left behind or tossed didn’t sit well with either sides.

[Big Lew]

Can't wait to see how many are going to get mauled now. Pretty sure this is how the ndp are trying to stay in the good books of the greens

Although I personally haven't hunted grizzlies, I don't support the total ban on hunting them.
I believe you're right in that there was probably a trade off between the site C dam announcement
and this total ban which the Greens support. The public seldom knows just what goes on behind
those closed doors.

[CheesyLimper]

As someone newer to hunting and completely enjoying it, I have a sinking feeling where this is going. Wolves next? caribou? Who needs science when we have disconnected lower mainland emotion.

[MBOGO]

City people so out of touch with reality. Making laws for the rest of the province, makes me sick.

[mpotzold]

Title says it all folks....
https://twitter.com/search?q=grizzly+hunt+british+columbia&ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Ese arch

As expected!:twisted:
Get ready for more ant-hunter surprises by the leftists such as use of motor vehicles while hunting(redefining Fair Chase),.......

[Salty]

"The BC Greens are delighted with the BC NDP announcement"

As I and most others said all along Weaver played us like a piano, posting here, picking up bits of info, all along acting like he was a champion of hunters, make the removal of meat a requirement to keep the hunt.. blah blah blah.
So you few here that invited him open arms, some even boasting they voted for them, are your ****ing eyes open now? :mad:

[twoSevenO]

As expected!:twisted:
Get ready for more ant-hunter surprises by the leftists such as use of motor vehicles while hunting(redefining Fair Chase),.......

I welcome all closures of motor vehicles used for hunting :)

Where can I vote to keep all ATVs and 4x4s on designated, NAMED roads only?

:D

[antlerking]

Just a little something for the GREEN part for site C !

[Ourea]

Be curious to see if various FN get in the GB guiding business in the near future.
Pretty good business model when you are the only one 'exempt' from an industry ban on a resource where there is a demand.

[Salty]

You got it antlerking. Politics 101, you make a decision and get tore up by your core supporters (Site C). Quick! Deflect the issue by throwing them a bone of something else that will get them happy, here we've been working on this grizzly hunt thing, lets just cancel it!!

[Drillbit]

Is that for guides too or just resident hunters?

[Salty]

Everyone but first nations the way I read it Drillbit

[Grumpa Joe]

Ban for all except Aboriginals. Going to be a lot more negative interactions as the population grows unchecked.

[dougan]

I hope David Suzuki and every other bleeding heart that wanted this gets there salad tossed by a g bear on there next outdoor hike !!! Oh wait most of those idiots don’t leave the concrete jungle. If you voted NDP your also to blame for this Thanks a bunch !!!!! !!
~

[northernguy]

I can hear the argument from FNs that want to guide G-bear..."we have always been guides for people coming into our Traditional Territory. Therefore, guiding hunts for grizzly bears is a traditional activity".

[Grumpa Joe]

I welcome all closures of motor vehicles used for hunting :)

Where can I vote to keep all ATVs and 4x4s on designated, NAMED roads only?

:D

I think we should go to using only rocks and sticks for hunting too.:mrgreen::evil:

[Dannybuoy]

I can hear the argument from FNs that want to guide G-bear..."we have always been guides for people coming into our Traditional Territory. Therefore, guiding hunts for grizzly bears is a traditional activity".

No Doubt !

[Ourea]

I can hear the argument from FNs that want to guide G-bear..."we have always been guides for people coming into our Traditional Territory. Therefore, guiding hunts for grizzly bears is a traditional activity".

Bigger concern is other natural resources could go this way.

[Pemby_mess]

"The BC Greens are delighted with the BC NDP announcement"

As I and most others said all along Weaver played us like a piano, posting here, picking up bits of info, all along acting like he was a champion of hunters, make the removal of meat a requirement to keep the hunt.. blah blah blah.
So you few here that invited him open arms, some even boasting they voted for them, are your ****ing eyes open now? :mad:




Weaver never acted like he was a champion of hunters. He came on here to assess if there were any political synergies between his party, and those defecting from the right/Liberal's. He was never disingenuous, and consistently stated his personal beliefs, all while trying to determine where concessions and compromises could be struck in the formation of a sustainable political platform.

The loudest members on here made it clear that hunters were no allies of his, weren't prepared to compromise on anything, and that he could go basically shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Essentially those people chose to render the wider interest group as politically useless to him. Is it any surprise that decisions are being made now without the input of hunters.

weaver was the only politician to bother engaging with your ideas at all. That was an opportunity to at least keep a foot in the door, and hold some grain of political leverage over him. Instead, this community spat in his face, and slammed that door firmly shut. Well done, great tact. Is anyone trying to call this betrayal? I sure hope not, cause it's exactly what is deserved.

In hindsight, the support here conceivably could have even meant the difference between and NDP or Liberal power balance.

[Darksith]

I will be sure to conduct ceremonial hunts with my nephews

[Salty]

I welcome all closures of motor vehicles used for hunting :)

Where can I vote to keep all ATVs and 4x4s on designated, NAMED roads only?

:D

Very inclusive nice to see you give everyone but yourself the golden finger. Karmas a bitch buddy I hope arthritis, old injuries fairing up and aging in general doesn't come too much before its time for you. A classic example of how the other side has learned to use the internet to their gain and us hunters plagued by guys like you that don't understand how a united front is the only way and selfishness of the few is what's killing us.

......


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.-
Niemöller

[Dannybuoy]

Maybe you are right Pemby ...if some on here would have been two faced and told weaver what he wanted to hear rather than the truth ..... Hmmm ? When I start to think lie , cheat and steal is the right thing maybe then I will join the green/ndp alliance :razz:

[Salty]

Weaver never acted like he was a champion of hunters. He came on here to assess if there were any political synergies between his party, and those defecting from the right/Liberal's. He was never disingenuous, and consistently stated his personal beliefs, all while trying to determine where concessions and compromises could be struck in the formation of a sustainable political platform.

The loudest members on here made it clear that hunters were no allies of his, weren't prepared to compromise on anything, and that he could go basically shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Essentially those people chose to render the wider interest group as politically useless to him. Is it any surprise that decisions are being made now without the input of hunters.

weaver was the only politician to bother engaging with your ideas at all. That was an opportunity to at least keep a foot in the door, and hold some grain of political leverage over him. Instead, this community spat in his face, and slammed that door firmly shut. Well done, great tact. Is anyone trying to call this betrayal? I sure hope not, cause it's exactly what is deserved.

In hindsight, the support here conceivably could have even meant the difference between and NDP or Liberal power balance.

Totally disagree go back and read the threads 2-3 years ago.
OK, I'll put you down for happy with our present politic situation. Wow.

[Dannybuoy]

I will be sure to conduct ceremonial hunts with my nephews

Friends and neighbors too eh ? That's very traditional !

[finaddict]

Weaver never acted like he was a champion of hunters. He came on here to assess if there were any political synergies between his party, and those defecting from the right/Liberal's. He was never disingenuous, and consistently stated his personal beliefs, all while trying to determine where concessions and compromises could be struck in the formation of a sustainable political platform.

The loudest members on here made it clear that hunters were no allies of his, weren't prepared to compromise on anything, and that he could go basically shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Essentially those people chose to render the wider interest group as politically useless to him. Is it any surprise that decisions are being made now without the input of hunters.

weaver was the only politician to bother engaging with your ideas at all. That was an opportunity to at least keep a foot in the door, and hold some grain of political leverage over him. Instead, this community spat in his face, and slammed that door firmly shut. Well done, great tact. Is anyone trying to call this betrayal? I sure hope not, cause it's exactly what is deserved.

In hindsight, the support here conceivably could have even meant the difference between and NDP or Liberal power balance.Every politician with a zero base of support is willing to bend over and take from anyone and support any and all comers who will vote for them right up until they find a larger level of votes and support from any other group that opposes the first group. Remember that the next time you are woo'ed by the latest pariah..............or a university professor who has only ever worked in the womb of Academia........

[VLD43]

Weaver never acted like he was a champion of hunters. He came on here to assess if there were any political synergies between his party, and those defecting from the right/Liberal's. He was never disingenuous, and consistently stated his personal beliefs, all while trying to determine where concessions and compromises could be struck in the formation of a sustainable political platform.

The loudest members on here made it clear that hunters were no allies of his, weren't prepared to compromise on anything, and that he could go basically shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Essentially those people chose to render the wider interest group as politically useless to him. Is it any surprise that decisions are being made now without the input of hunters.

weaver was the only politician to bother engaging with your ideas at all. That was an opportunity to at least keep a foot in the door, and hold some grain of political leverage over him. Instead, this community spat in his face, and slammed that door firmly shut. Well done, great tact. Is anyone trying to call this betrayal? I sure hope not, cause it's exactly what is deserved.

In hindsight, the support here conceivably could have even meant the difference between and NDP or Liberal power balance.

Well stated Pemby_Mess. I hope the hunting community in general reflects and learns from this. In the world we live in today, respectful, collaborative dialogue wins the day. It doesn't matter how passionate you are about any issue, if you don't play nice with others, they will either ignore you, or avoid you. Then who wins? Those participating in a respectful conversation have an opportunity to affect the outcome.

[Pemby_mess]

Totally disagree go back and read the threads 2-3 years ago.
OK, I'll put you down for happy with our present politic situation. Wow.

not happy at all, I'm cringing nearly every day. But a Green/liberal alliance would have suit me just fine. After reading those threads 2,3 and 1 yrs ago, and being witness to Weaver's attempts at reaching across the aisle, I can definitely see why he ended up going with Horgan.

[Phil]

Time to buy into bear spray stocks!! Let the population expand and see what comes of it. Full circle I'm guessing.

[Pemby_mess]

Maybe you are right Pemby ...if some on here would have been two faced and told weaver what he wanted to hear rather than the truth ..... Hmmm ? When I start to think lie , cheat and steal is the right thing maybe then I will join the green/ndp alliance :razz:

thanks demonstrating the problem so succinctly. Using dishonesty and mischaracterization to accuse someone of doing the same? Very clever. Where was I advocating for anyone to lie, cheat or steal?

[325]

Enough discussion about Horgan and Weaver. Pleasing hunters is not a priority for them, period. We need to move forward. Losing the grizzly hunt is the first success of the anti-hunting movement. Let's make it their last.

[northernguy]

We all need to write an open letter and ask how the Govt. intends to replace the lost funding to the HCF or what aspects of Habitat Conservation they intend to cut back on with the loss of the funding. They can't have it both ways.

Any group truly interested in conservation, regardless of their stand on hunting, should demand an answer.

[Pemby_mess]

Enough discussion about Horgan and Weaver. Pleasing hunters is not a priority for them, period. We need to move forward. Losing the grizzly hunt is the first success of the anti-hunting movement. Let's make it their last.

Better learn from this then.

[twoSevenO]

Very inclusive nice to see you give everyone but yourself the golden finger. Karmas a bitch buddy I hope arthritis, old injuries fairing up and aging in general doesn't come too much before its time for you. A classic example of how the other side has learned to use the internet to their gain and us hunters plagued by guys like you that don't understand how a united front is the only way and selfishness of the few is what's killing us.

......


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.-
Niemöller

There are plenty of opportunities for those of us not plagued by arthritis to get away from the roads and hunt seldom touched lands as is. If only I had as much time off as I do desire to see and hunt all these beautiful places....

You are not my competition. Competition is not even what my post was about. Though, I do admit it was written tongue in cheek but I thought the added smilies would have helped convey that ... Guess not.

Lack of back country closures with proper wintering areas is a major concern but your post only focuses on where your arthritis laden legs would be able to get to .... yet i'm the selfish one?

[Dannybuoy]

thanks demonstrating the problem so succinctly. Using dishonesty and mischaracterization to accuse someone of doing the same? Very clever. Where was I advocating for anyone to lie, cheat or steal?

I was implying that your theory was if weaver would have received support on this forum (disingenuous or not ) he would have not supported the ndp in banning hunts ... therefore when talking to a politician , act like a politician , "Lie , cheat , steal "

[russm86]

Better learn from this then.

The only ones who need to learn anything from this are those who voted NDP/Green... THEY ARE NOT OUR FRIENDS!!!

[325]

Better learn from this then.

I agree. Keep in mind it's natural for any creature, when backed into a corner to lash out. Hunters are being backed into a figurative corner. It's infuriating that the values of the anti-hunters are considered more valuable than those of hunters. Hunter's aren't asking for legislation to force non-hunters to hunt, but they are trying prevent us from hunting. For me that's a big deal , as I am a hunter down to my last strand of DNA.

I agree we need to be respectful in our dealings with non-hunters, but we must also stand by our values.

Pemby_mess, do you have a vision on how we move forward? I'm genuinely interested, and not trying to put you on the spot.

[cuervosail]

Well stated Pemby_Mess. I hope the hunting community in general reflects and learns from this. In the world we live in today, respectful, collaborative dialogue wins the day. It doesn't matter how passionate you are about any issue, if you don't play nice with others, they will either ignore you, or avoid you. Then who wins? Those participating in a respectful conversation have an opportunity to affect the outcome. I agree ... more respectful dialogue is required to deal with future issues facing us as the leading group of conservationists in the province.

[Moose63]

Bears will lose fear of man now. The anti has been raised when we head into the bush.

[rimfire]

Here is the issue, friends:

"The B.C. government says public consultations have made it clear that killing grizzlies is no longer socially acceptable."

Parties that claim they are "for science" but decide not to use it and instead make laws based on the whims of the electorate... Lovely.

[northernguy]

We all need to write an open letter and ask how the Govt. intends to replace the lost funding to the HCF or what aspects of Habitat Conservation they intend to cut back on with the loss of the funding. They can't have it both ways.

Any group truly interested in conservation, regardless of their stand on hunting, should demand an answer.

[Salty]

There are plenty of opportunities for those of us not plagued by arthritis to get away from the roads and hunt seldom touched lands as is. If only I had as much time off as I do desire to see and hunt all these beautiful places....

You are not my competition. Competition is not even what my post was about. Though, I do admit it was written tongue in cheek but I thought the added smilies would have helped convey that ... Guess not.

Lack of back country closures with proper wintering areas is a major concern but your post only focuses on where your arthritis laden legs would be able to get to .... yet i'm the selfish one?

Actually I am your competition, I hunt on foot away from the crowds. But I respect all legal existing forms of hunting, the hunters that choose to hunt their various ways, and will fight to keep them legal. Obviously you don't care about others but hunters asking for bans to help their personal situation is akin to shooting yourself in the foot.

[Gateholio]

Will native outfitters still be able to sell grizzly hunts?

[bearvalley]

Will native outfitters still be able to sell grizzly hunts?
No outfitters will be selling hunts.

[Wolfdown]

I can’t say I’m disappointed because I’m not! But of course the natives as always are aloud to do whatever the hell they go damn want.

[Rob Chipman]

325:

You described the GreeNDP thus:"Pleasing hunters is not a priority for them, period."

If I agree with you (and I do) it leads to the obvious question: Is pleasing hunters a priority for the Liberals?

I've said and will continue to say that I don't think it is, unless we really make it worth their while. I think we need to think about that, come to grips with a conclusion and then start taking long term action.

The first thing I think we need to do is stop thinking of ourselves as hunters who are allowed or not allowed to hunt, and start thinking of ourselves as conservationists who are stakeholders. "Stakeholders" seem to do well these days, and "conservationist" sounds way better and is way harder to demonize than "hunter".

[Hublocker]

I can’t say I’m disappointed because I’m not! But of course the natives as always are aloud to do whatever the hell they go damn want.


I know of one FN hunting duo who alleged they were charged by a grizzly bear and shot it.

Challenged by a C.O. they claimed food, social and ceremonial rights.

Then they had a full body mount made. A trophy to FSC rights I guess.

[325]

325:

You described the GreeNDP thus:"Pleasing hunters is not a priority for them, period."

If I agree with you (and I do) it leads to the obvious question: Is pleasing hunters a priority for the Liberals?



I've said and will continue to say that I don't think it is, unless we really make it worth their while. I think we need to think about that, come to grips with a conclusion and then start taking long term action.

The first thing I think we need to do is stop thinking of ourselves as hunters who are allowed or not allowed to hunt, and start thinking of ourselves as conservationists who are stakeholders. "Stakeholders" seem to do well these days, and "conservationist" sounds way better and is way harder to demonize than "hunter".

Over-all, compared to the Western US states, hunters, wildlife and conservation are an afterthought...if that.

[325]

I can’t say I’m disappointed because I’m not! But of course the natives as always are aloud to do whatever the hell they go damn want.

Well, one tool provincial biologists have in their tool kit of wildlife management has just been destroyed. Happy about that? Don't understand what I mean?? Well let's say there is a region where a certain ungulate is experiencing a dramatic population drop. Biologists discover that it's due to low recruitment secondary to grizzly predation on calves. Solution - increase the grizzly harvest to try and mitigate the downward spiral.

[Bugle M In]

325:

You described the GreeNDP thus:"Pleasing hunters is not a priority for them, period."

If I agree with you (and I do) it leads to the obvious question: Is pleasing hunters a priority for the Liberals?

I've said and will continue to say that I don't think it is, unless we really make it worth their while. I think we need to think about that, come to grips with a conclusion and then start taking long term action.

The first thing I think we need to do is stop thinking of ourselves as hunters who are allowed or not allowed to hunt, and start thinking of ourselves as conservationists who are stakeholders. "Stakeholders" seem to do well these days, and "conservationist" sounds way better and is way harder to demonize than "hunter".

Yup............

[Bugle M In]

Although I personally haven't hunted grizzlies, I don't support the total ban on hunting them.
I believe you're right in that there was probably a trade off between the site C dam announcement
and this total ban which the Greens support. The public seldom knows just what goes on behind
those closed doors.

This^^^^..........

[Bugle M In]

Enough discussion about Horgan and Weaver. Pleasing hunters is not a priority for them, period. We need to move forward. Losing the grizzly hunt is the first success of the anti-hunting movement. Let's make it their last.
What he said.,,,

[Bugle M In]

I welcome all closures of motor vehicles used for hunting :)

Where can I vote to keep all ATVs and 4x4s on designated, NAMED roads only?

:D

Are you F'n serious???????????????
Give your head a shake....after what was just announced, and you want to go here.....now???!!!!
I rarely get this annoyed at a single post....but this one.....beyond me.
I hope you find arthritis in every joint of your body, with busted knees and shoulders to boot...ASAP.
Then lets hear your thoughts....downright dumb.....and no place for it on this thread.

[dino]

All I got to say is "I'm done" !
I'm so tired of this bullshit.
I will do what I want and deal with the consequences.
Im just done!

[Ourea]

All I got to say is "I'm done" !
I'm so tired of this bullshit.
I will do what I want and deal with the consequences.
Im just done!

And another one bites the HBC dust......

[IslandWanderer]

Bigger concern is other natural resources could go this way.

agreed.

I will NEVER vote for the NDP ever again!

[Citori54]

agreed.

I will NEVER vote for the NDP ever again!

Hate to say told you so, but we did over and over.

[rocksteady]

Sad day for wildlife management

[Bugle M In]

agreed.

I will NEVER vote for the NDP ever again!

I didn't vote NDP this last time....but I had never considered them completely off the list of choices when it
came to elections.
But, after this, NDP will never be a party I WILL EVER CONSIDER AGAIN....EVER!!
Never got an Email from Heyman on "my opinion" on Grizzly Hunting in BC".
BUT, hopefully he just read my opinion on him.

[DarekG]

Anti's will be celebrating and using their "momentum" to target wolf hunting next. Just watch and see.

[coldbuc69]

Our Government says approx 300 Grizzly’s are harvested a year in BC. Now In 4 years there will be an extra 1200 bears roaming around. That means fewer Elk and Moose and a greater risk of Human/Bear Incounters. How many bears do Weaver and Horgan want? In 10 years there will be 18000 bears in BC. Will that be enough. I would like to ask how many people on this site were contacted in regards to the Poll taken that our Government went off of. I sure wasn’t. How many people travel to Northern BC to view bears? NONE!! The Bush is to thick to see anything. This is nothing but Horgan trying to make up to Weaver for Site C plain and simple. This is what BC Gets for the Second and Third place parties calling the shots. Lower mainland calling the shots for the rest of BC. It’s only going to get worse I’m afraid

[RackStar]

Are you F'n serious???????????????
Give your head a shake....after what was just announced, and you want to go here.....now???!!!!
I rarely get this annoyed at a single post....but this one.....beyond me.
I hope you find arthritis in every joint of your body, with busted knees and shoulders to boot...ASAP.
Then lets hear your thoughts....downright dumb.....and no place for it on this thread.

If the only way I can hunt when im old and busted is by vehicle then so be it. Let’s KEEP our rights, not give them up. Feel free to keep YOUR truck on named roads. Some of my spots I hunt, I need a ATV to get to where my hunt/hike begins. especially up north. Not so much reg 2,3,8.

The antis are already reading our posts here laughing at their victory. Keep the stupid comments to a minimum.

[moosinaround]

Time to buy into bear spray stocks!! Let the population expand and see what comes of it. Full circle I'm guessing.
Negatory there Phil, I have always carried "bear spray" in the bush, a lead variety made by such fine bear spray makers such as Winchester, Remington, Federal, Barnes......................................

[Ron.C]

Not surprised and agree this was the cost of the Green going along on Site C.

But let's be honest folks. We "the hunting community" did a piss poor job fighting this. Hell, every day on HBC there are childish exchanges about everything hunting that if you were an anti, you need only quote some of the crap posted here to further your agenda.

We got screwed by the Govt on this one, but:
1. let's exercise some maturity and thought when discussing hunting on a public forum; and
2. Everyone needs to get involved and do what they can to protect what we have before we loose something else.

[Bugle M In]

If the only way I can hunt when im old and busted is by vehicle then so be it. Let’s KEEP our rights, not give them up. Feel free to keep YOUR truck on named roads. Some of my spots I hunt, I need a ATV to get to where my hunt/hike begins. especially up north. Not so much reg 2,3,8.

The antis are already reading our posts here laughing at their victory. Keep the stupid comments to a minimum.

Confused???....I support vehicles...and ATV's...as long as they stay on roads.
I do think some "deactivation" is needed however.
I was commenting on the other poster wanting us to "get rid of vehicles", and the fact that it's shitty timing to put
that in as a comment when this thread is about the outright ban of GBear.
Like we need more "stupid" in this forum going forward.

[Bugle M In]

What I wonder now is....
will any party (ie Liberals) turn it back if they were to get in next time???
Or, is this the new...new???
No party will want to change it back issue now???
Thoughts?

[weatherby_man]

The wedge is firmly in place now...watch for more bans like folks already said, wolf may be next but I can see whats potentially on the horizon and its very very disturbing.

[Pemby_mess]

I was implying that your theory was if weaver would have received support on this forum (disingenuous or not ) he would have not supported the ndp in banning hunts ... therefore when talking to a politician , act like a politician , "Lie , cheat , steal "

I know this may sound revolutionary, but it's possible to assertively state your position without antagonizing your ideological adversary. In fact, that's all that will succeed in changing what's in the hearts and minds of others, if that well and truly remains the objective of having a political discussion.

Taking the position that one shouldn't hold their tongue, in certain circumstances, for fear of being seen a liar/cheat/thief; is quite frankly, silly. It's not how things get accomploshid in a complex civilization.

[Gateholio]

No outfitters will be selling hunts.

This will be interesting

[Ron.C]

What I wonder now is....
will any party (ie Liberals) turn it back if they were to get in next time???
Or, is this the new...new???
No party will want to change it back issue now???
Thoughts?
They certainly won't if we dont get behind some sort of united effort.

I think we Resident Hunters" need to engage with the guides and first Nations and figure out how to work together, or we'll all suffer.

I for one fully support the FN rights to hunt G Bears. What good will it do me as a resident Hunter to oppose this?

Let's get together on this folks.

[finaddict]

What I wonder now is....
will any party (ie Liberals) turn it back if they were to get in next time???
Or, is this the new...new???
No party will want to change it back issue now???
Thoughts?I really believe that the liberals will reserve that decision until after the referendum on proportional representation. Dont think for a second that they will demand we go back to scientific management of ANY resource if proportional representation goes through. If that happens then management of all topics will be decided on Facebook, Twitter and other forms of (anti-) social media and their polls.

[antlerking]

This is just the beginning of NDP/GREEN coalition beware of the electoral reform they have in the works! What they want and will probably get will mean NDP/GREEN for life! 50% +1 and no minimum number of votes to change to an equal representation model ( 35% vote NDP= 35% seats 17% vote GREEN =17% seats ) SCREWED For LIFE

[IronNoggin]

Will native outfitters still be able to sell grizzly hunts?

I wouldn't be so quick to suggest there will be no hunt sales...

Here's an interesting little tidbit this socialist government announcement failed to mention: Of the registered Grizzly Bear Hunt Outfitters in BC, TWENTY-SIX (including by far the largest) are owned and operated by First Nations. Can't help but notice the mention of "treaty rights" in the announcement. And given they have been selling these hunts for quite some, would not the "traditional activity" clause apply? My bet is that some are willing to find out... ;-)

Another consideration for you: Given the FN "right" to continued harvest, given the complete removal of all other sources within the province, just how much is that head & hide worth now? Pretty certain they have already made a case for the sell, barter trade mechanism to kick in with wildlife "by-products"...

In my opinion, anyone that thinks these hunts have just been stopped should give their head a very serious shake!
Must be nice to have complete control of the access to these hunts, and apparently this misguided "government" as well...

Nog

[Pemby_mess]

I really believe that the liberals will reserve that decision until after the referendum on proportional representation. Dont think for a second that they will demand we go back to scientific management of ANY resource if proportional representation goes through. If that happens then management of all topics will be decided on Facebook, Twitter and other forms of (anti-) social media and their polls.

you're talking about direct democracy. That has nothing to do with proportional representation. That latter is still representative. The aspects of direct democracy you've mentioned can still be brought into a representative system, and remain unaffected by mob-rule.

[270ruger]

Next on the list is the poor moose that have been ravaged by the wildfires.

[Pemby_mess]

I agree. Keep in mind it's natural for any creature, when backed into a corner to lash out. Hunters are being backed into a figurative corner. It's infuriating that the values of the anti-hunters are considered more valuable than those of hunters. Hunter's aren't asking for legislation to force non-hunters to hunt, but they are trying prevent us from hunting. For me that's a big deal , as I am a hunter down to my last strand of DNA.

I agree we need to be respectful in our dealings with non-hunters, but we must also stand by our values.

Pemby_mess, do you have a vision on how we move forward? I'm genuinely interested, and not trying to put you on the spot.


Keep in mind it's natural for any creature, when backed into a corner to lash out. Hunters are being backed into a figurative corner.

Thing about that is; humans aren't just any creature. We have this amazing piece of evolutionary machinery called a pre-frontal cortex. It's where we process huge amounts of information including our emotions and produce an action accordingly. Using it well generally leads to positive outcomes. Falling back to our amygdalas and lashing out like wounded animals, generally gets us slaughtered as such.


Pemby_mess, do you have a vision on how we move forward? I'm genuinely interested, and not trying to put you on the spot

I certainly do, as it happens. I'll wait for this thread to simmer down a bit, think about it some more, and post'em up this evening. Oruea has alluded to going in the direction I see, in other threads. He's subtle though, so not sure what that's about.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Well, one tool provincial biologists have in their tool kit of wildlife management has just been destroyed. Happy about that? Don't understand what I mean?? Well let's say there is a region where a certain ungulate is experiencing a dramatic population drop. Biologists discover that it's due to low recruitment secondary to grizzly predation on calves. Solution - increase the grizzly harvest to try and mitigate the downward spiral.

This is exactly what was happening in the Revelstoke area to help caribou.

[twoSevenO]

Confused???....I support vehicles...and ATV's...as long as they stay on roads.
I do think some "deactivation" is needed however.
I was commenting on the other poster wanting us to "get rid of vehicles", and the fact that it's shitty timing to put
that in as a comment when this thread is about the outright ban of GBear.
Like we need more "stupid" in this forum going forward.

Hurles insults over the internet like an angry 14 year old gamer, then proceeds to agree with both points I made.

Stay classy, sir. Lol

[Bugle M In]

They certainly won't if we dont get behind some sort of united effort.

I think we Resident Hunters" need to engage with the guides and first Nations and figure out how to work together, or we'll all suffer.

I for one fully support the FN rights to hunt G Bears. What good will it do me as a resident Hunter to oppose this?

Let's get together on this folks.

I acknowledge what you are saying.
Never wanted to take away the FN's right to hunt, just like I don't like seeing it taken away from Residents right now.
BUT....
Do you really think the FN want to be "aligned with us"???
They are not losing anything.....
If anything, they have just gained "full monopoly" on GBear Hunting....AND....
Now they can "Charge thru the roof in pricing" for those hunts....
(don't think for a second they still don't want to make money on this)
Regardless....they have no reason to align with us......none....as they get their needs fulfilled the way it is.
Why would they ever want to bring us back into the fold??
Only reason I could see.....
that one day hunting by "None FN is banned outright"....and thus, making US want to have their right removed as well...out of spite....
That will be when they need to get concerned....having a resident hunter turn into an Anti some day.

[Bugle M In]

Hurles insults over the internet like an angry 14 year old gamer, then proceeds to agree with both points I made.

Stay classy, sir. Lol

hey...your lost buddy...
you made the claim to ban vehicle hunting completely....
big difference between that, and deactivating some spur roads....
have a nice day fool!

[twoSevenO]

hey...your lost buddy...
you made the claim to ban vehicle hunting completely....
big difference between that, and deactivating some spur roads....
have a nice day fool!

You need to learn how to read, then. I'm not engaging with someone who can't comprehend a short, unedited post.

[Bugle M In]

I really believe that the liberals will reserve that decision until after the referendum on proportional representation. Dont think for a second that they will demand we go back to scientific management of ANY resource if proportional representation goes through. If that happens then management of all topics will be decided on Facebook, Twitter and other forms of (anti-) social media and their polls.

Proportional Representation is a Scary thought.....considering what just happened, and how hard decisions like
this can be to overturn in the future for any party for sure.....not good.

[Bugle M In]

I welcome all closures of motor vehicles used for hunting :)

Where can I vote to keep all ATVs and 4x4s on designated, NAMED roads only?

:D

this was your post....2 seven..nothing!

[twoSevenO]

this was your post....2 seven..nothing!

So you clearly missed the second sentence in that post. Either way, I won't read or reply again, so don't bother :)

[Ron.C]

BUT....
Do you really think the FN want to be "aligned with us"???
They are not losing anything.....
If anything, they have just gained "full monopoly" on GBear Hunting....AND....
Now they can "Charge thru the roof in pricing" for those hunts....
(don't think for a second they still don't want to make money on this)
Regardless....they have no reason to align with us......none....as they get their needs fulfilled the way it is.
Why would they ever want to bring us back into the fold.

I can only speculate,

But I know that those that want to end all hunting will eventually set their sights on the FN as well. And you make a great point. Why is it that people can't see passed what's in front of them. If the G bear hunt was only cancelled for FN and or Guide outfitters, would we "resident hunters" turn our back on them. Sure as hell we would.

But we have to stop thinking like this and move passed it or we'll loose something else.

[emerson]

We were ignored. Our opinion and beliefs are not advanced by appeasement, no matter how badly Pemby wants to become a politician. The Greens/NDP and their supporters do not give a **** what we think. Their supporters are living by their emotions and mortgaging their future. The govt is using them like a young, attractive, innocent partner. Addicts can not be helped until they decide to make a change themselves. If we do not have enough votes to change the government; we are stuck.

[Fisher-Dude]

hey...your lost buddy...
you made the claim to ban vehicle hunting completely....
big difference between that, and deactivating some spur roads....
have a nice day fool!

Bugle, you're responding to another troll from SFU.

[Bugle M In]

I can only speculate,

But I know that those that want to end all hunting will eventually set their sights on the FN as well

That's what I meant.....
That should "resident Hunter" lose Their Rights to hunt, then it will only turn more people against the FN.
Just the fact that the FN will still get to keep hunting GBear, based on race etc, is already enough ammunition
for some hunters to start hurling at them....
I know, my friend just called me up (he thought I hadn't heard??:roll:)....
Anyways....the 2nd sentence out of his mouth was...."ya..and guess who gets to still hunt them".

Basically shows how we continue to further the gap amongst the "total hunting community".
And knowing how human mind/thought pattern works....
If one group loses their rights....they then want to see the next group lose theirs as well.
So yes, the FN should see the picture coming in the future, should hunting be taken away from us.
There definitely won't be anyone there to stand in support of them down the road...
Right now, we all share the view of hunting the same....

I bet you the GOABC is thinking twice about the "allotment policy"!!!!right now.
Again, another group who didn't see what could happen when they turned their backs on Resident Hunters!
Decided to go "Their Own Way"!
In the end, they had a lot of Resident Hunters upset....
And some of those Resident Hunters ended up voting NDP because of that Allotment Policy
(My opinion anyways).....but, it does show how things that look all "rosey" one minute...can blow up.

[Harvest the Land]

Totally agree! I'm a lifelong BCNDP member and monthly donor and I just called to cancel my membership and donations. THis is such bull shit! Never knew BCNDP would be such panderers to clueless lower mainlanders who haven't hunted a day in their lives. F_ck the BCNDP!! They've gotten out of control and I'm done

[antlerking]

NDP banned grizzly hunting last time they were in government,why would this time be any different? I just hope they piss off enough people sooner rather than later, as to control damage to our province!

[Fisher-Dude]

Anyone wanting to book a fishing trip with Shearwater?

Check out their Facebook post on the ban.

https://www.facebook.com/FishingBC/posts/2272262646118060?hc_location=ufi

[two-feet]

Just booked my visit to chat with Doug Donaldson

[325]

Anyone wanting to book a fishing trip with Shearwater?

Check out their Facebook post on the ban.

https://www.facebook.com/FishingBC/posts/2272262646118060?hc_location=ufi

I posted this on their FB page:

Grizzly populations are stable or increasing in most regions of BC. Salmon stocks are declining. Maybe time to look at banning salmon fishing. More science to support that notion that banning the grizzly hunt. Besides, it's way less expensive to simply buy a fish at the store. How is selling fishing trips to people that enjoy dragging a metal hook around the ocean until they impale a salmon, and who take pleasure in dragging in that fish while it fights for its life more justifiable than grizzly hunting?? It's not.

[Gateholio]

I wouldn't be so quick to suggest there will be no hunt sales...

Here's an interesting little tidbit this socialist government announcement failed to mention: Of the registered Grizzly Bear Hunt Outfitters in BC, TWENTY-SIX (including by far the largest) are owned and operated by First Nations. Can't help but notice the mention of "treaty rights" in the announcement. And given they have been selling these hunts for quite some, would not the "traditional activity" clause apply? My bet is that some are willing to find out... ;-)

Another consideration for you: Given the FN "right" to continued harvest, given the complete removal of all other sources within the province, just how much is that head & hide worth now? Pretty certain they have already made a case for the sell, barter trade mechanism to kick in with wildlife "by-products"...

In my opinion, anyone that thinks these hunts have just been stopped should give their head a very serious shake!
Must be nice to have complete control of the access to these hunts, and apparently this misguided "government" as well...

Nog


That's why I think that this will be interesting to see play out. I can see native outfitters telling the NDP/Greens to screw off, and going to court if neccessary.

I also see all other GO's and spin off businesses (like air charters etc) suing the government

[Bugle M In]

That's why I think that this will be interesting to see play out. I can see native outfitters telling the NDP/Greens to screw off, and going to court if neccessary.

I also see all other GO's and spin off businesses (like air charters etc) suing the government

Good points....

[Rattler]

Well, one tool provincial biologists have in their tool kit of wildlife management has just been destroyed. Happy about that? Don't understand what I mean?? Well let's say there is a region where a certain ungulate is experiencing a dramatic population drop. Biologists discover that it's due to low recruitment secondary to grizzly predation on calves. Solution - increase the grizzly harvest to try and mitigate the downward spiral.

I put this in my letter to the MLA...mind boggling they have shut the season down.

We have to unite folks and fight for our right to hunt and fish...

[finaddict]

you're talking about direct democracy. That has nothing to do with proportional representation. That latter is still representative. The aspects of direct democracy you've mentioned can still be brought into a representative system, and remain unaffected by mob-rule. Complete baloney, Pemby. The following is straight from the Fair Vote Canada Website on Proportional Representation. Does not look to me like it be very representative of regional issues........


We are starting this campaign from the strongest position ever:
1) A government which has promised to educate and campaign for a YES vote – that’s political leadership we’ve never seen before

2) Two parties with a supply-and-confidence agreement, showing BC voters a real life example of how cooperative government work
3) More passionate and informed supporters than ever before!


http://www.fairvote.ca/wp-content/themes/fairvotecanada/images/slides/pr7.jpg

[blacklab]

Sure glad we got rid of Christy Clarke!
Thanks to all the green, ndp voters.
You can bet there's lots more of this to come.

[Whonnock Boy]

Again, it's an interesting approach you and others are taking. Wouldn't be here if we had social license, not to mention a previous government that put new meaning to the word corrupt.



Sure glad we got rid of Christy Clarke!
Thanks to all the green, ndp voters.
You can bet there's lots more of this to come.

[Ride Red]

Again, it's an interesting approach you and others are taking. Wouldn't be here if we had social license, not to mention a previous government that put new meaning to the word corrupt.

And these assholes aren’t corrupt?

[Busterbrown]

Another sad day for hunters and conservationists in BC. I could see this coming a mile away from Mickey and Goofy in Victoria. The age old mantra of "you scratch my back ...I scratch yours " In full display. I stated earlier this was coming as well as a serious look at the Sheep and Goat hunts...the Green party also considers these species "Trophy" hunts. The leading edge of the wedge has been pounded in. Mickey and Goofy were not elected to run the province yet here we go...Those who voted NDP or Green please do not make the same mistake twice...they both need to go

[Red_Mist]

Again, it's an interesting approach you and others are taking. Wouldn't be here if we had social license, not to mention a previous government that put new meaning to the word corrupt.

Hope you didn't choke writing that. Some how the NDP is corruption free ? Good laugh thanks. Btw I don't ask for permission to hunt. Haven't asked for permission since I was a child. Tell me more about this social liscene ? Is it GOS or do I apply for it on LEH ? And what are we hunting ... you know socially ?

[Whonnock Boy]

Don't mistake my comments as support for the NDP. All governments are corrupt, just some more than others, with some gaining ground.


And these assholes aren’t corrupt?

Little or no social license to hunt Grizzly bears is why we are here today. Smart remarks won't change that.


Hope you didn't choke writing that. Some how the NDP is corruption free ? Good laugh thanks. Btw I don't ask for permission to hunt. Haven't asked for permission since I was a child. Tell me more about this social liscene ? Is it GOS or do I apply for it on LEH ? And what are we hunting ... you know socially ?

[Salty]

It would interesting if there was a requirement to post on this thread to have responded to the ministry's request for comments on the future of the grizzly hunt which closed last month. I suspect it would be pretty quiet here. Much like it was quiet on the lawn of the legislature in 2014 where there was only several hundred while thousands blathered away on the net. Too many of us will go as far as spewing diatribe on the keyboard on and issue and then pat themselves on the back for speaking up. That accomplishes nothing. The world is run by those that show up. Or at least those that write a ****ing letter! We're being killed by apathy if that doesn't change soon we're done.

[antlerking]

Again, it's an interesting approach you and others are taking. Wouldn't be here if we had social license, not to mention a previous government that put new meaning to the word corrupt.
A guess you forgot what brought Glen Clark down when he was premier (bingo gate) I wonder how his deck is holding up or did he finally have to pay to have it rebuilt? Every time the NDP has been in government they've screwed up the province and are kicked out with devastating defeat. Let's hope this proposal for election reform is seen for what it is or we will never get rid of them! There wish for the referendum on it is a complete scam with no need for unanimous approval across all riddings province wide,they want a simple 50%+1 mandate with no minimum number of votes! BEWARE

[bearvalley]

That's what I meant.....
That should "resident Hunter" lose Their Rights to hunt, then it will only turn more people against the FN.
Just the fact that the FN will still get to keep hunting GBear, based on race etc, is already enough ammunition
for some hunters to start hurling at them....
I know, my friend just called me up (he thought I hadn't heard??:roll:)....
Anyways....the 2nd sentence out of his mouth was...."ya..and guess who gets to still hunt them".

Basically shows how we continue to further the gap amongst the "total hunting community".
And knowing how human mind/thought pattern works....
If one group loses their rights....they then want to see the next group lose theirs as well.
So yes, the FN should see the picture coming in the future, should hunting be taken away from us.
There definitely won't be anyone there to stand in support of them down the road...
Right now, we all share the view of hunting the same....

I bet you the GOABC is thinking twice about the "allotment policy"!!!!right now.
Again, another group who didn't see what could happen when they turned their backs on Resident Hunters!
Decided to go "Their Own Way"!
In the end, they had a lot of Resident Hunters upset....
And some of those Resident Hunters ended up voting NDP because of that Allotment Policy
(My opinion anyways).....but, it does show how things that look all "rosey" one minute...can blow up.

Bugle M In, my suggestion is you study what went on leading up to the initial proposed allocation splits, what allocation did to the guides, who the players were at all sides of the table and what some of those players are doing today.
You might just find a fox in the henhouse, or to put it another way a rat in the woodpile....or both.

[Pemby_mess]

Complete baloney, Pemby. The following is straight from the Fair Vote Canada Website on Proportional Representation. Does not look to me like it be very representative of regional issues........


We are starting this campaign from the strongest position ever:
1) A government which has promised to educate and campaign for a YES vote – that’s political leadership we’ve never seen before

2) Two parties with a supply-and-confidence agreement, showing BC voters a real life example of how cooperative government work
3) More passionate and informed supporters than ever before!


http://www.fairvote.ca/wp-content/themes/fairvotecanada/images/slides/pr7.jpg

yes, exactly. You're not saying anything I wasn't. Proportional representation is still representative. More so than what we have now. That's different than direct democracy, which is what you were conflating it with.

The way it works now; the majority (a minority of the population) is given a whip. Except virtually nobody gets a say on what the whip wants. That's why you see initiatives opposed by 80% of the population, still go ahead. It also makes it more likely corruption will work its way in. There's less people involved in making decisions, therefore money only needs to buy off the whip and those directly responsible for his/her support.

In in a system with proportional representation, decisions more often than not, involve everybody in a more distributed fashion - less prone to targeted bribery and subsequent "group think". Nobody needs to bend to the whim of a "leader".

First past the post, works pretty well when you're the one doing the whipping, I suppose - not so much when you're on the other side of same. How does it feel?

[bearvalley]

That's why I think that this will be interesting to see play out. I can see native outfitters telling the NDP/Greens to screw off, and going to court if neccessary.

I also see all other GO's and spin off businesses (like air charters etc) suing the government
Gatehouse, it could get real interesting.

[antlerking]

yes, exactly. You're not saying anything I wasn't. Proportional representation is still representative. More so than what we have now. That's different than direct democracy, which is what you were conflating it with.

The way it works now; the majority (a minority of the population) is given a whip. Except virtually nobody gets a say on what the whip wants. That's why you see initiatives opposed by 80% of the population, still go ahead. It also makes it more likely corruption will work its way in. There's less people involved in making decisions, therefore money only needs to buy off the whip and those directly responsible for his/her support.

In in a system with proportional representation, decisions more often than not, involve everybody in a more distributed fashion - less prone to targeted bribery and subsequent "group think". Nobody needs to bend to the whim of a "leader".

First past the post, works pretty well when you're the one doing the whipping, I suppose - not so much when you're on the other side of same. How does it feel?
In the perfect world where you had equal number of seats province wide to represent the whole province doesn't work when you have 70% of the people in the lower mainland setting the rules for 100% of the province!

[gmachine19]

Anyone wanting to book a fishing trip with Shearwater?

Check out their Facebook post on the ban.

https://www.facebook.com/FishingBC/posts/2272262646118060?hc_location=ufi

Commented on their page. Already screen shotted the bs they posted in case the decide to take it down.

[Bugle M In]

Bugle M In, my suggestion is you study what went on leading up to the initial proposed allocation splits, what allocation did to the guides, who the players were at all sides of the table and what some of those players are doing today.
You might just find a fox in the henhouse, or to put it another way a rat in the woodpile....or both.

Maybe you could just tell me/us who the rat was....I am willing to listen.....
All I was saying was, the GOABC wanted to separate themselves from us, which only got "us" mad and irate.
Which did leads to some members not wanting to vote for the Libs.
Granted, tons of other reasons why as well....but, which party was worse for the longevity of hunting in BC.
(I know...some will say it was heading towards privatization...true....but an outright BAN was not in the works)
Funny thing is....when I heard that the "trophy part" of the GBear hunt was coming to an end....I sure as heck like
furthering myself away form any GOABC members.
I always said we needed to "adopt bringing the meat out", not just skull/hide...and again, the GOABC is more about
trophy hunting and their clients then any resident would be.
Anyways....we really need to look at ourselves....how we portray ourselves (thus the thread I posted from the RMEF),
how we want to organize ourselves etc.
Agreed, we may get some "indirect" support from some FN in the coming months.....but I do not believe it will because they want to "support RH's"....not directly.
Anyways, maybe GOABC may want to look at making some "amends" with us "residents".
Then most of us will be willing to bring them back into the fold....because we need a united front....
and I do hope FN see the implications that could come from this....one day....it might be ex-hunters screaming for them to "lose the right"....only because they never stood up and "helped protect our rights".....
seems fair to me....how about u???

[gmachine19]

Anyone wanting to book a fishing trip with Shearwater?

Check out their Facebook post on the ban.

https://www.facebook.com/FishingBC/posts/2272262646118060?hc_location=ufi

LOL! Just like that they deleted my post and banned me! hahahahaha

[Hunterguy]

Does this mean the Outfitters will get subsided by the government for loss of income due to the ban?

[325]

In the perfect world where you had equal number of seats province wide to represent the whole province doesn't work when you have 70% of the people in the lower mainland setting the rules for 100% of the province!

correct. PR will essentially nullify any votes west of Hope

[Bugle M In]

Again, it's an interesting approach you and others are taking. Wouldn't be here if we had social license, not to mention a previous government that put new meaning to the word corrupt.

I am going to take a phrase I just saw on facebook (so I wont take credit for this...but it is so true!)

Politics and Politicians is like having to decide which STD you want!

Right now I will pick the one "Dr. Pecker can FIX"

[guest]

Commented on their page. Already screen shotted the bs they posted in case the decide to take it down.

post ER up Gmachine ....... Shearwater, and the like should be boycotted IMO.

[Pemby_mess]

In the perfect world where you had equal number of seats province wide to represent the whole province doesn't work when you have 70% of the people in the lower mainland setting the rules for 100% of the province!


correct. PR will essentially nullify any votes west of Hope

You'd still have ridings. The population/geographic balance can be worked out through discussion. As it sits now, the lower mainland has more representation than the rest of the province. That's been a perennial complaint for years under the current system. Proportional representation could go a long way to rectifying that imbalance if was implemented honestly. STV was proposed last time around, and is designed to specifically address your concern. Through open dialogue, I'm sure an even better proportional system could be devised.

I'd much rather vote my conscience than try to decide on a voting strategy that fails whether my vote contributes to a "win" or not. Everytime I leave the polls, I feel taken. Most people my age still don't even vote. Every candidate should carry their weight and represent their actual constituents, not whoever their leader is bending over for.

[Bugle M In]

Commented on their page. Already screen shotted the bs they posted in case the decide to take it down.

Yup....seen that happen on an Anti Wolf Cull Site....I commented...nicely and factually in disagreement...
they took it down!!....that's social media for you....and exactly how they will use it to "their advantage" everytime.
Makes you wonder if they "edit their polls as well"??

[gmachine19]

Yup....seen that happen on an Anti Wolf Cull Site....I commented...nicely and factually in disagreement...
they took it down!!....that's social media for you....and exactly how they will use it to "their advantage" everytime.
Makes you wonder if they "edit their polls as well"??

Sure enough they took down their entire post!

[Whonnock Boy]

Yeah, that wasn't going to do them any favors keeping that up. I'm sure a few calls to the big wigs had them scrambling, not to mention, only one supporter on the entire post agreeing with Sheerwater's stance.


Sure enough they took down their entire post!

[tuner]

Fakk Shearwater, i Personaly will not spend a goddam penny there!
If anyone here is a member of any US hunting sites,please spread the word that the outfit is anti hunter, and should
not be supported. The irony is that salmon are in far greater peril than grizzly bears, who even the putrid NDP after years of claiming that bear numbers were overstated,finally admitted that the numbers were not only good,but were even better than the previous government had reported, maybe it's time to put a stop to "trophy" salmon fishing
by wealthy foreigners after all what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[stan]

Does this mean the Outfitters will get subsided by the government for loss of income due to the ban?
I believe lawyers were retained a year ago, now my tax dollars are gonna pay out millionaire outfitters for loss of business.

[Bugle M In]

Weaver never acted like he was a champion of hunters. He came on here to assess if there were any political synergies between his party, and those defecting from the right/Liberal's. He was never disingenuous, and consistently stated his personal beliefs, all while trying to determine where concessions and compromises could be struck in the formation of a sustainable political platform.

The loudest members on here made it clear that hunters were no allies of his, weren't prepared to compromise on anything, and that he could go basically shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Essentially those people chose to render the wider interest group as politically useless to him. Is it any surprise that decisions are being made now without the input of hunters.

weaver was the only politician to bother engaging with your ideas at all. That was an opportunity to at least keep a foot in the door, and hold some grain of political leverage over him. Instead, this community spat in his face, and slammed that door firmly shut. Well done, great tact. Is anyone trying to call this betrayal? I sure hope not, cause it's exactly what is deserved.

In hindsight, the support here conceivably could have even meant the difference between and NDP or Liberal power balance.

Pemby,

I agree, we can do a better job of being "courteous".....
But, it's hard when that same thing is not returned back....

But, Weaver never had any intention of really listening...why do I say that?.....
It was just like when Heyman knocked at the door...I told...sorry....not voting NDP...he asked why...and I responded
cause you and your party are Anti Hunting....
Then, the politician side came out...oh no...we support "meat hunting"!!! read our mandate blah blah blah.
BS....look what he just announced....he never meant what he was saying...just lying to appease a vote.

Weaver is why this came about today....because Site C is going ahead...and the "green voters were pissed".
The NDP always knew site c was to far to stop....but they saw votes to be taken away from the Libs...
(lets face it...even some on here on the Site C thread are pissed).
They always knew they would pass it....so now they found an opportunity to say "sorry...but hey...how about this"!!
Even the New guy from Global that spends all day at parliament...everyday...had no idea what it was about???
This was to appease the "No Site C Voters" and to "Appease Mr. Weaver and his green supporters".

I am not going to blame some members on here for "seeing the snake in the grass"....
They saw Weaver like I do a Vegan.....
I have tried to talk nicely to Vegans....forget it....they don't want to understand or see the other side of the discussion.
Weaver just wanted to "look like he did"....
But hey...he was the 1st to respond "how happy this announcement made him"...

[pnbrock]

i wonder how much the first nations will be charging for a grizzly hunt ?

[bearvalley]

Maybe you could just tell me/us who the rat was....I am willing to listen.....
All I was saying was, the GOABC wanted to separate themselves from us, which only got "us" mad and irate.
Which did leads to some members not wanting to vote for the Libs.
Granted, tons of other reasons why as well....but, which party was worse for the longevity of hunting in BC.
(I know...some will say it was heading towards privatization...true....but an outright BAN was not in the works)
Funny thing is....when I heard that the "trophy part" of the GBear hunt was coming to an end....I sure as heck like
furthering myself away form any GOABC members.
I always said we needed to "adopt bringing the meat out", not just skull/hide...and again, the GOABC is more about
trophy hunting and their clients then any resident would be.
Anyways....we really need to look at ourselves....how we portray ourselves (thus the thread I posted from the RMEF),
how we want to organize ourselves etc.
Agreed, we may get some "indirect" support from some FN in the coming months.....but I do not believe it will because they want to "support RH's"....not directly.
Anyways, maybe GOABC may want to look at making some "amends" with us "residents".
Then most of us will be willing to bring them back into the fold....because we need a united front....
and I do hope FN see the implications that could come from this....one day....it might be ex-hunters screaming for them to "lose the right"....only because they never stood up and "helped protect our rights".....
seems fair to me....how about u???

Do you really blame the guides for wanting to distance themselves after the skewed numbers that were thrown out during the allocation fiasco?
I use the term guides because not all outfitters are GOABC members.

Most hunters in this province did not have a firm grasp of how allocation worked....some even thought the guides were getting 40% of all animals taken in BC.
At the time I posted up the true numbers....it was less than 2% of the total wildlife harvest.....but 40% sounded a lot more dramatic even if it was only for a few specific hunts.

As for the party that is best for hunting long term, they’ve both got their pros and cons.
The Liberals were more pro hunter but damn tough on looking after habitat.
The NDP/Greens don’t seem to look so favourable at hunters it appears but maybe, just maybe they will look at backing off some of the abuse our wilderness areas are facing currently.

The word “trophy” has been slandered by both the anti hunting faction and a small portion of the hunting community that has its own agendas.
That portion of hunters that look down on so called “trophy hunters” have done a fine job of cutting their own throats.
The guides proposed meat retrieval to take away the stigma that the grizzly hunt was just a trophy hunt....ask the “voice of the resident hunter” who didn’t support this change being made.

You should study up a bit on FN’s constitutional rights, they really don’t need you or me.
They’re entitled to 50% of the wildlife harvest in BC and their right to it will still be there even if we lose all of ours.

Theres a lot of talk right now about a funding model and the concept is great but from what I see there is no management plan in place.
Just an ask for money.
FN’s with their Federal rights pack a big stick when it comes to wildlife access and whether we like it or not will most likely have a major role in future wildlife decisions.
I can see wildlife management moving to a new level...call it co-management between the BC Government and FN’s with their Federal constitutional rights.
Maybe we better all start thinking about making some “amens”.

[Ohwildwon]

Well I heard that the Liberals spoke out about this at least...

Maybe the light at the end of the tunnel?

A good time to send a letter, apparently D Watts is listening..:-?

[IronNoggin]

That's why I think that this will be interesting to see play out. I can see native outfitters telling the NDP/Greens to screw off, and going to court if necessary.

Already well in the cards... ;-)


I also see all other GO's and spin off businesses (like air charters etc) suing the government

Also getting ready, but not nearly as well organized as the first group...


... Already screen shotted the bs they posted in case the decide to take it down.

Post that asap please. It is very much worth getting out there.


... We're being killed by apathy if that doesn't change soon we're done.

aYup. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink - no matter how bloody long you hold his head under.
Apathy is the death of a thousand cuts, and we are bearing witness... :sad:


Maybe we better all start thinking about making some “amends”.

We either sink, or swim, together.
Hope those on the extreme end of either side can digest that Fact...

Cheers,
Nog

[gmachine19]

https://i.imgur.com/mSsCaqM.png

[quadrakid]

they banned the hunt because they deem it socially unacceptable,the same people that find grizzly hunting unacceptable find ALL hunting unacceptable. We are entering a dark time when this is how we govern.

[markomoose]

Totally pissed off with the morons running the province.This WILL backfire on the NDP/GREEN

[emerson]

I guess us resource workers that make more than the $50K/yr a BA/BS degree pays in the lower mainland just need to work 1/2 time now to starve the short sightedness out of LM voters.

[mpotzold]

This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Don't understand all the excitement. The ruling was inevitable. :evil:

My concern now is that the NDP may make it compulsory that each hunter carry bear spray & to use it as a first line of defence if charged by a bear. Well, if it doesn’t work at least the bear’s life will be spared.


Also get ready for the following coming soon
No doubt Fair Chase Act will be resurrected.

Remember BILL M 208 – 2011 introduced by M. SATHER NDP
THE FAIR CHASE ACT

BC Wildlife Act Section 27 to be amended adding (5)
(5) A person who, in the act of hunting, impedes the movement of wildlife by placing a motorized vehicle between wildlife and the direction the wildlife is proceeding commits an offence.

Also re Section 27
(3)A person who harasses wildlife with the use of a motor vehicle commits an offence.
The Fair Chase Act would eliminate the ambiguity of what constitutes harassment.

“This legislation would ensure that new hunters, and hunters who are unfamiliar with the way hunting is done in British Columbia, understand that they must allow wildlife a fair opportunity to escape as part of the chase,”
http://bcndpcaucus.ca/news/fair-chase-act-would-clarify-hunting-rules-promote-good-sport/

Essentially the reintroduction could end road hunting as we know it.

[Bugle M In]

Do you really blame the guides for wanting to distance themselves after the skewed numbers that were thrown out during the allocation fiasco?
I use the term guides because not all outfitters are GOABC members.

Most hunters in this province did not have a firm grasp of how allocation worked....some even thought the guides were getting 40% of all animals taken in BC.
At the time I posted up the true numbers....it was less than 2% of the total wildlife harvest.....but 40% sounded a lot more dramatic even if it was only for a few specific hunts.

As for the party that is best for hunting long term, they’ve both got their pros and cons.
The Liberals were more pro hunter but damn tough on looking after habitat.
The NDP/Greens don’t seem to look so favourable at hunters it appears but maybe, just maybe they will look at backing off some of the abuse our wilderness areas are facing currently.

The word “trophy” has been slandered by both the anti hunting faction and a small portion of the hunting community that has its own agendas.
That portion of hunters that look down on so called “trophy hunters” have done a fine job of cutting their own throats.
The guides proposed meat retrieval to take away the stigma that the grizzly hunt was just a trophy hunt....ask the “voice of the resident hunter” who didn’t support this change being made.

You should study up a bit on FN’s constitutional rights, they really don’t need you or me.
They’re entitled to 50% of the wildlife harvest in BC and their right to it will still be there even if we lose all of ours.

Theres a lot of talk right now about a funding model and the concept is great but from what I see there is no management plan in place.
Just an ask for money.
FN’s with their Federal rights pack a big stick when it comes to wildlife access and whether we like it or not will most likely have a major role in future wildlife decisions.
I can see wildlife management moving to a new level...call it co-management between the BC Government and FN’s with their Federal constitutional rights.
Maybe we better all start thinking about making some “amens”.

Maybe my point somehow got lost in translation???
Yes, not all GO's are reflected thru the GOABC....with you on that...and I know there are some good folk in that industry.
As for separation....I still feel the GOABC wanted to separate themselves from us....which...then led to many of us
wanting to separate from them....just my opinion and the way I saw it unfold.
As far as I felt, the allocations should have been left alone...as was.
(some tweaking maybe, but not behind closed doors and without BCWF at the table)...which brings ups the
NDP vs Lib fiasco...
Again...agree, Libs did a piss poor job here in the province, especially when it came to "habitat funding and restoration"...and to throw in the fact that they seemed to be catering further and further towards the
"private sectors" etc...again, the way I saw it.
So, so far....I agree with you.....so maybe I confused you??
NDP VS Lib Fiasco is like what I quoted.....
IT's like having to decide which STD you want to be given....no other choice....but you have to pick one...for now,
and when it comes to hunting and politics, we may never have "the party for hunters any more"??
FN....I think I was clear on that....they don't need us....they have their legal rights, and they can just run down to
the courts when need be, and continue on hunting....period....they wont need us.
So...yes, I agree, we need to get all aligned together....Resident Hunters, GO's and the GOABC, BCWF and I am sure
we can get a lot of support from the USA, as I know it has been talked about a lot down there....
they are fully aware what was coming, and yes, they are the clients the GO's need to survive.
If we don't help support our GO's here in this province, we will have big problems....
They will sell off there titles...guess who will buy them....
IT's the same people buying out those GO territories in the RainCoast right now.
All I meant with the GOABC....they better realize they better remember "how important we were/are to their survival"
also....and that what happened, did probably cause some resentment amongst Resident Hunters and towards the
GOABC/Liberals.....
As for getting FN to stand with us....sounds like you feel the same as I......doubt they will want to align with us in
this battle to come...
One last thing....I don't blame people for having voted NDP....I understand their frustrations at the time and
concerns.....the liberals had a lot of years to have turned things around when it came to wildlife and habitat.
But....the NDP doesn't really show any signs of turning things around weither when it comes to spending money where it is really needed....instead....
They seemed to be imposing the one thing I have hated most over the years, as it never helped.
They are imposing further restrictions....."IN an OUTRIGHT BAN TO HUNTING IN BC".

Do I seem to be standing together now????

[HarryToolips]

Totally pissed off with the morons running the province.This WILL backfire on the NDP/GREEN
Yup....I thought a revote was going to happen in the near future due to what is happening in the West Kelowna riding?

I thought they were going to keep the meat retention rule, this is just social pressure from ignorant city slickers that our stupid NDP has listened too...completely ignoring the science.....

[northof49]

Everyone should have seen this coming. If you voted NDP learn from this....and never do so again.


NDP/Green = more regulation + less corporate investment in natural resource sector = less jobs = less $$ being spent in BC which in turn hurts resource towns (most of BC other than lower mainland) and all the supporting businesses. Add to that plans to end Gbear hunt, etc. Turmoil ahead folks. Hopefully new election sooner than later and better showing for Libs next time around.


Wont be long now until the GreeNDPs announce shut down the G-bear hunt.

[Bugle M In]

The biggest trick is to "find some dirty laundry" that can hit the mainstream media...
something that can start to drive a wedge between the ndp and greens....
otherwise we're stuck with this mess and who knows what else is lurking around the corner??
Antis no longer wasting time on "do you want the gbear hunt banned"....
Their already working on new polls right now my friends.

[HarryToolips]

^^^^i saw that....I just joined twitter so I could throw some facts at the anti hunting ignorant morons who research nothing but go on emotion - kind of like our provincial government..

[scoutlt1]

Here are a few things I know, and a few things I believe...

I know Andrew Weaver came on here with no intention of engaging hunters in a discussion. His only intent was to be able to say that he "engaged" the hunting community. He had, and still has, an agenda that showed itself today. For those on here that state that he was treated "badly", I disagree. I would suggest that most of us asked questions in a respectful manner, with the sincere wish for an informative and honest response. Not just on wildlife management but also, and very importantly, on firearms rights. Were there some posts/questions that were somewhat harsh and maybe inappropriate? Perhaps. But let's be honest....every politician should be aware that this will occur when a specific group is engaged, regardless of the subject.

I believe today's decision is one of a "thousand cuts" for the hunting community. More than just a "cut" today.....rather a laceration.

I believe today's decision is yet another contemptible display of government sanctioned racism and preferential treatment for a specific group of people.

I know that politicians are only looking to get elected. They don't care or listen to what their constituents want. It's only about getting the vote, and getting the vote that gets their party into power.

I believe that hunting as we know it is, eventually, doomed. For example, all the proper and correct evidence/information can be presented (more and more) to just about anyone. One simple sentence like "yes but don't you think it's better to ban the killing of the majestic grizzly bear which will make sure they are around forever?"....and there you have it. The answer from that person(s) will, unequivocally, be "yes".

I'm not an email/letter writer. I have met with, and spoken to MLAs and MPs who were both elected and looking to get elected. I have expressed my views to them not just on issues that are relevant on this forum, but on other subjects as well. The majority of the time I felt my thoughts and comments fell on deaf ears.

Honestly, and very sadly, I don't know if we all have a chance of winning this battle. There are so many knowledgeable, law-abiding, decent, hard working men and women on this site who should be able to put their differences aside and as a group be able to make these things right. We all hunt, fish, trap, enjoy the outdoors and ultimately have, above all, the best interests of our wildlife at heart.
Sadly, mostly because of the likes of Andrew Weaver and John Horgan, among others, and because of their singular determination to gain political power, I am afraid that we are not going to be successful.....

Fight and argue about the details as a group all you want, but today's announcement, which is a failure to protect, safeguard, and support all the wildlife of British Columbia rests solely on the recently elected "leaders" and MLAs, and those that voted for them.

Today's decision is vile, and an absolute disgrace in so many ways.

Worst of all, I am out of beer. Poor planning on my part....

[bearvalley]

Bugle M In, I appreciate your honesty and feel your frustration.
The only thing I disagree with in your reply is the part about the BCWF not being at the table throughout the allocation negotiations.
The BCWF was there....don’t get me started on back door deals....there’s a few of them that have been done and are getting played out and not by GOABC.

[Bugle M In]

Here are a few things I know, and a few things I believe...

I know Andrew Weaver came on here with no intention of engaging hunters in a discussion. His only intent was to be able to say that he "engaged" the hunting community. He had, and still has, an agenda that showed itself today. For those on here that state that he was treated "badly", I disagree. I would suggest that most of us asked questions in a respectful manner, with the sincere wish for an informative and honest response. Not just on wildlife management but also, and very importantly, on firearms rights. Were there some posts/questions that were somewhat harsh and maybe inappropriate? Perhaps. But let's be honest....every politician should be aware that this will occur when a specific group is engaged, regardless of the subject.

I believe today's decision is one of a "thousand cuts" for the hunting community. More than just a "cut" today.....rather a laceration.

I believe today's decision is yet another contemptible display of government sanctioned racism and preferential treatment for a specific group of people.

I know that politicians are only looking to get elected. They don't care or listen to what their constituents want. It's only about getting the vote, and getting the vote that gets their party into power.

I believe that hunting as we know it is, eventually, doomed. For example, all the proper and correct evidence/information can be presented (more and more) to just about anyone. One simple sentence like "yes but don't you think it's better to ban the killing of the majestic grizzly bear which will make sure they are around forever?"....and there you have it. The answer from that person(s) will, unequivocally, be "yes".

I'm not an email/letter writer. I have met with, and spoken to MLAs and MPs who were both elected and looking to get elected. I have expressed my views to them not just on issues that are relevant on this forum, but on other subjects as well. The majority of the time I felt my thoughts and comments fell on deaf ears.

Honestly, and very sadly, I don't know if we all have a chance of winning this battle. There are so many knowledgeable, law-abiding, decent, hard working men and women on this site who should be able to put their differences aside and as a group be able to make these things right. We all hunt, fish, trap, enjoy the outdoors and ultimately have, above all, the best interests of our wildlife at heart.
Sadly, mostly because of the likes of Andrew Weaver and John Horgan, among others, and because of their singular determination to gain political power, I am afraid that we are not going to be successful.....

Fight and argue about the details as a group all you want, but today's announcement, which is a failure to protect, safeguard, and support all the wildlife of British Columbia rests solely on the recently elected "leaders" and MLAs, and those that voted for them.

Today's decision is vile, and an absolute disgrace in so many ways.

Worst of all, I am out of beer. Poor planning on my part....

Well said....as you do quite often...
Missed one thing when it comes to politicians....
there whole reason to be who they are (well more then anything) is to be elected in some form...
whatever it takes....to get that "fat pension"...period.
Weaver is a politician, and like you said...should be fully aware that not all statement were going to be kind.
The "Green" Part of this majority we have right now is the biggest reason today happened (if you throw in the
Site C decision).
There are some who enter politics to help...to make things right....unfortunately, in the end they either have to
play ball...or be thrown to the side....
Money or Emotionally Based Votes...sad but true.

[Salty]

Bugle M In, I appreciate your honesty and feel your frustration.
The only thing I disagree with in your reply is the part about the BCWF not being at the table throughout the allocation negotiations.
The BCWF was there....don’t get me started on back door deals....there’s a few of them that have been done and are getting played out and not by GOABC.

The fed was there alright. And then completely ignored while the other two chiseled out how it was going to amongst themselves afterwards.

[bearvalley]

The fed was there alright. And then completely ignored while the other two chiseled out how it was going to amongst themselves afterwards.

Were you there?

[Salty]

Were you there?

You know the answer to that. I've been following the BCWF for many years, can't think where I've ever seen them lie in official statements. I'll go with their take over the GOABC's take. I also recall Thompson trying to explain why the announcement was a complete surprise to the fed.

[Fisher-Dude]

The worst part is, even after the dry screwing that many knew was inevitable, there are still people on this very forum dumb enough to defend the NDP's actions.

[Chopper]

Being in the tourism industry ... i firmly believe this in not about "VALUES" but rather "VALUE" The money G bear watching brings in on the coast is staggering ... and i mean "STAGGERING"

[bearvalley]

You know the answer to that. I've been following the BCWF for many years, can't think where I've ever seen them lie in official statements. I'll go with their take over the GOABC's take. I also recall Thompson trying to explain why the announcement was a complete surprise to the fed.
Salty, I knew the answer.
I also know what the guides lost, the bit they got back and the real facts on allocation numbers and not the propaganda the Fed pushed.

[bearvalley]

Being in the tourism industry ... i firmly believe this in not about "VALUES" but rather "VALUE" The money G bear watching brings in on the coast is staggering ... and i mean "STAGGERING"
Then let’s figure out a way to get the G-bear viewing businesses to put something back into G-bears.

[guest]

Then let’s figure out a way to get the G-bear viewing businesses to put something back into G-bears.

Hence part of the funding model. All users pay.

[bearvalley]

Hence part of the funding model. All users pay.

The concept sounds great.
Wheres the blueprint?

[Ohwildwon]

Right here...

100% of all profits go to conservation...

[bearvalley]

Right here...

100% of all profits go to conservation...

LOL....I was thinking maybe the Fed was going to dig deeper in their pockets.

[Bugle M In]

Being in the tourism industry ... i firmly believe this in not about "VALUES" but rather "VALUE" The money G bear watching brings in on the coast is staggering ... and i mean "STAGGERING"

I am going to say you are probably right....there is money in Tourism.
There was also money in "guided hunts"....
Funny thing is...."Guided Hunts Existed Long Before the "Eco Tourism" showed up....and yet...
the Eco Tourism managed to Start Up, Survive and Expand, and all while Hunting existed and continued on every year before them and during it...so....
Both Can Be Supported!!!
Both have managed to survive....until today!!!
There was "no problem" with hunting them....period.....
Just one group no longer wanted to share.....

Oh well....I guess the Black Market just went up in price!!!
Nobody touched on that point yet!...

[Bugle M In]

Hence part of the funding model. All users pay.

Well....if we as hunters can no longer hunt them....then I sure as hell don't want to see a penny of my
"habitat funding money from my tags/licences " go towards it grizzly habitat...
Users can pay for that....let the Eco's pay for any of those enhancements now!...let them get there hands dirty!...
Let them pay for "their science guys"....

We will use it to enhance what we are allowed to use for now....so elk/deer/moose...etc.
Sucks doesn't it.....!!!
I would like to contribute....I feel we should.....but, we are no longer user's of that resource as it stands today.

[guest]

Forestry, mining, recreation, hunters, equipment, tourism you name it.
What isn't working is the status quo for the last 30 plus years.

Time to get involved

[TexasWalker]

Well....if we as hunters can no longer hunt them....then I sure as hell don't want to see a penny of my
"habitat funding money from my tags/licences " go towards it grizzly habitat...
Users can pay for that....let the Eco's pay for any of those enhancements now!...let them get there hands dirty!...
Let them pay for "their science guys"....

We will use it to enhance what we are allowed to use for now....so elk/deer/moose...etc.
Sucks doesn't it.....!!!
I would like to contribute....I feel we should.....but, we are no longer user's of that resource as it stands today.
They already do pay for scientists and I doubt they would have a problem replacing the amount of money we as hunters put into grizzly bear conservation.
For the amount of money spent on hunting grizzly bears in BC the small piece of it that actually goes towards bears is pathetic.
They are winning the funding game handily, look at the money they have to throw around for guiding tenures.

[Jagermeister]

I am just glad I am not a millenial!

Why? Because there will be no hunting in this province within the next 20 years. There will be no resident hunters period

There may be away around that but most of you would not endorse any now action that would be necessary. So, the resident hunter will slowly fade into the sunset on a rainy day.

Sure glad I had the opportunity so it matters not to me. I feel sorry for my grandchildren and great grandchildren though.

[Bugle M In]

I am just glad I am not a millenial!

Why? Because there will be no hunting in this province within the next 20 years. There will be no resident hunters period

There may be away around that but most of you would not endorse any now action that would be necessary. So, the resident hunter will slowly fade into the sunset on a rainy day.

Sure glad I had the opportunity so it matters not to me. I feel sorry for my grandchildren and great grandchildren though.

F***....does this mean we all have to move to Alberta now????....damn it!

[Walking Buffalo]

Being in the tourism industry ... i firmly believe this in not about "VALUES" but rather "VALUE" The money G bear watching brings in on the coast is staggering ... and i mean "STAGGERING"




How does your firm belief translate to a provincial scale?

The same rhetoric is used by anti-hunting advocates around the world.

Tanzania just released it's new Elephant allocations for the new year. Poaching has caused a sever decline in populations, which are reflected in a big reduction on Elephant licences. Now the government is unsure how to fund wildlife conservation. Why? Cause hunting provides 80% of the money. Photographic safaris, despite their huge presence, even dominating excuse use of the highly protected areas, only contributes 20% of the funds.


No, positive economic valuations is NOT the reason for this decision.

[guest]

I am just glad I am not a millenial!

Why? Because there will be no hunting in this province within the next 20 years. There will be no resident hunters period

There may be away around that but most of you would not endorse any now action that would be necessary. So, the resident hunter will slowly fade into the sunset on a rainy day.

Sure glad I had the opportunity so it matters not to me. I feel sorry for my grandchildren and great grandchildren though.

Your negativity goes no where.
Take you Puck and net with you. Don't let the gate smack you on the ass. Loosers give up.

[xcaribooer]

These articles talk about "peopled surveyed" and 80% of BC'ers supporting the decision. When was this supposed survey done??? I didn't get a questionnaire in the mail ,did any of you? im guessing not. My guess is their survey was done at a starbucks on robson street or at the rainforest café. complete crap. I would be more accepting of the decision if there was a legitimate province wide survey done and 80% of ALL BC'ers felt this way. Maybe 80% of the Vancouver people feel this way but im pretty sure a legitimate province wide survey would show a very different result.
The next question is if/when the libs get back in power can they reverse this decision?? and if they can ,will they??

[Bugle M In]

They already do pay for scientists and I doubt they would have a problem replacing the amount of money we as hunters put into grizzly bear conservation.
For the amount of money spent on hunting grizzly bears in BC the small piece of it that actually goes towards bears is pathetic.
They are winning the funding game handily, look at the money they have to throw around for guiding tenures.

Yup...your right...I was just being facetious!
But, I really don't want to see any of "my money" going to "their bio's" now....nor to support them in "enhancing habitat", by only buying out GO Licenses/Territories!....(the new way to enhance habitat possibly now??)
What do you think the Greens/NDP are going to use our fees towards now!!????
(don't forget...we were pushing that All of what we pay yearly goes towards habitat....not just cents on the dollar).
We never should have been the "only group to contribute anyways"....for years now....
But...we better watch where this money goes now....just saying..

[guest]

F***....does this mean we all have to move to Alberta now????....damn it!

NO..... NDP is there too, with no G Bear hunting already lol. Stay here Bugle..... It's just getting entertaining.

[bandit]

Here's the letter I just sent to my NDP MLA. I'm pretty proud of the last paragraph, your welcome to copy it





I was very disappointed to hear that the NDP government decided to ban grizzly bear hunting. Whilst I appreciate that there was a need to resolve the ongoing dispute the result is, in my view, the worst possible outcome.



In my submission to the public consultation I stated that if there is to be a ban it should be a ban for everyone. So I would be interested to hear how the government came to the decision to allow First Nations to continue hunting grizzly bears for social, cultural and ceremonial purposes. This is just "trophy" hunting by a different name and amounts to nothing short of triumphalism.


By banning this hunt it is clear that the NDP believe feelings are more important than facts. Science based decision making has been the backbone of North American Model of Wildlife Conservation since it was implemented by Teddy Roosevelt. Banning something because it hurts someones feelings is an extremely dangerous precedent to be setting. To be honest it reminds me of a George Orwell novel and not the kind of thing we should expect from the BC government. You are supposed to promote tolerance, respect and diversity and represent a diverse array of people from different cultures and worldviews.


The timing of this decision is uncanny. Not one week ago you announced that Site C would go ahead despite opposition from a vocal green minority. So on behalf of the 100,000 hunters in BC - many thanks for throwing us under the bus. Whats next? Approve Kinder Morgan then ban moose hunting? Raise income taxes then stop people hunting deer? Fail with the Vancouver housing crisis then pick on farmers for shooting a couple of coyotes? Cancel some ferry services and blame it on duck hunters? Based on your short track record this doesn't sound rediculous at all, I hope you can convince me otherwise.

[Bugle M In]

NO..... NDP is there too, with no G Bear hunting already lol. Stay here Bugle..... It's just getting entertaining.

Saskatchewan???????????????????????????
(damn it! wouldn't even come close to sufficing that thought.....)

[bearvalley]

........don't forget...we were pushing that All of what we pay yearly goes towards habitat....not just cents on the dollar).
We never should have been the "only group to contribute anyways"....for years now....
But...we better watch where this money goes now....just saying..

You’re hitting on what could be a happen.
An independant funding model to grow wildlife with all stakeholders at the table.....no one says that the wildlife will be hunted.
What happened today shows how true this could be.

[micus]

I NEVER write emails to politicians,

but here is mine:


Greetings Mr. Donaldson,


firstly let me say I am very appreciative of the hard work you carry out on behalf of British Columbians from all walks. I am writing you today because I want there to be an alternative voice/perspective to a fairly divisive issue- the Grizzly Bear hunt ban.


As someone who has lived most of their life in central and northern BC and an avid outdoorsman and conservationist, I can attest to the fact that the number of Grizzly bears I have encountered has steadily increased over the past 10 years. I know that the lower mainland of the province controls the movements of most political parties as they are by number, far and away, the most populace segment of the province. However, and unfortunately, this group of people tends to be extremely detached from the daily mores and realities of northern life and what living close to the land really means. A common phrase I hear thrown around is," leave them [bears] in their home unbothered," but what happens when your "home" is also "their" home. This decision has left many people I know in more rural communities feeling as if nothing but the opinions of those living in Vancouver or Burnaby matter-in a word, alienated.


I am a hunter and fisherman, however, I do not hunt Grizzly bears, I never have, and I had never planned on starting. What concerns me is that this government is starting down the path of governing through the emotions of the detached peoples of the lower mainland despite science suggesting that there is a place for a sustainable Grizzly bear hunt in this province. It is my hope that reason, not feelings is the tool used for all governments when impactful decisions like this are made, and sadly that is not what I feel has most recently occurred.


Again, I thank you for your role serving the people of this province, I am well aware your job is not an easy one.


yours respectfully,

[bandit]

These articles talk about "peopled surveyed" and 80% of BC'ers supporting the decision. When was this supposed survey done??? I didn't get a questionnaire in the mail ,did any of you? im guessing not. My guess is their survey was done at a starbucks on robson street or at the rainforest café. complete crap. I would be more accepting of the decision if there was a legitimate province wide survey done and 80% of ALL BC'ers felt this way. Maybe 80% of the Vancouver people feel this way but im pretty sure a legitimate province wide survey would show a very different result.
The next question is if/when the libs get back in power can they reverse this decision?? and if they can ,will they??

The frequently cited survey comes from a polling company called Insights West. They did the initial poll on their own dime to drum up business. Subsequent polls, with ever increasingly one sided questions, were paid for by anti hunting groups. Their polling method is designed to be cheap but is fundamentally flawed for many reasons.

The poll doesn't have enough people to be statistically significant

The questions were loaded

The provenance of the interviewees was not tested (eg they asked "are you a hunter" rather than "do you hold a bc hunting license; this led them to estimate there are 400,000 hunters in the province yet only 100,000 licenses are sold. The excuse was that lots of people hunt without licenses)

The pollster himself is partisan for this issue and gave media statements way beyond what the data said

Most competitors would charge 3-4 times the amount they do, implying some major corners being cut. (My understanding is that they have a paid pool of 1000 or so BC residents that they reuse for all of their polls)

Obviously the media never bothered to query the result of the poll because it fit their narrative. Worse still was that hunters / bcwf / goabc didn't commission a poll with opposing questions like "do you support science based resource management"

[northof49]

I would be more accepting of the decision if there was a legitimate province wide survey done and 80% of ALL BC'ers felt this way.

No....don't be accepting of the decision.....period. Even if the majority does feel this way, wildlife management decisions should still be based on the science and not political agendas.

[Jagermeister]

Your negativity goes no where.
Take you Puck and net with you. Don't let the gate smack you on the ass. Loosers give up.
My negativity? Exactly what do you see as positive in all of this? I am telling you what I see. I see the demise of hunting and if you can't see that you should extract your head from your ass.
Harsh words? You got it.
First it was the trophy hunt for grizzlies by guided clients. Suddenly that morphed into a total ban.
So now that the eco-wackos have triumphed with the grizzly hunt curtailment, what will be their next campaign and the next campaign and............?
You getting the picture yet?
Where have you taken a stand to improve something for the fish and game in this province? Probably no where except espousing your bullshit here.
And you ask........
My claim to fame was raising issue with the Quesnel River log drive in the mid to late '70s. Weldwood quit on their own accord but not before I and others took it to the BCWF and the CWF. Weldwood just saw the handwriting on the wall and opted out before it got too controversial. We had the Ladies Farmer Institute on board too.
Now, now what was that campaign you spear headed?
Otherwise, suck back and reload.
And to all you others. You are going to have to get proactive now. Tomorrow will be to late. Your best vehicle is the BCWF and you all will have to take an active roll. GOABC will have to coddle up to the resident hunter and lend support although I think that industry may be doomed.
And consider this. You may have to consider foregoing a hunting season or two. And a good start would be not to subscribe to the LEH. Think you can do it?

[Jagermeister]

I forgot my other claim to fame. The $1500+ GLoomis speyrod and reel combo that I donated to the NVRGC in their dispute with DLCC. Say Curlytop, did you drop some coin into that coffer?

[Chopper]

Then let’s figure out a way to get the G-bear viewing businesses to put something back into G-bears.


Hence part of the funding model. All users pay.


I am going to say you are probably right....there is money in Tourism.
There was also money in "guided hunts"....
Funny thing is...."Guided Hunts Existed Long Before the "Eco Tourism" showed up....and yet...
the Eco Tourism managed to Start Up, Survive and Expand, and all while Hunting existed and continued on every year before them and during it...so....
Both Can Be Supported!!!
Both have managed to survive....until today!!!
There was "no problem" with hunting them....period.....
Just one group no longer wanted to share.....

Oh well....I guess the Black Market just went up in price!!!
Nobody touched on that point yet!...


They already do pay for scientists and I doubt they would have a problem replacing the amount of money we as hunters put into grizzly bear conservation.
For the amount of money spent on hunting grizzly bears in BC the small piece of it that actually goes towards bears is pathetic.
They are winning the funding game handily, look at the money they have to throw around for guiding tenures.


You guys would not believe the zodiak's and whale watching boats heading up Knights and Bute inlet during the fall. Charging 3-$400 a head, Doing 2 or three trips a day, with 12-30 passengers. Natives are charging the non indigenous
whale watching companies $200 a head. "which is included in the $400". Eco tourism right now is CRUSHING the revenue That hunting and guided hunts are bringing in. Its not even close, Eco tourism can sell a bear for $100,000 a day EASY !!! ... for months ! how can they justify us shooting them ?


So for sure there was pressure was from the Natives and the whale watching companies. If you have LEH draws in the Orford River, The natives wont let get off your boat to hunt in there until the bear watching is done. In fear someone will show up with an ELK on the dock in front of tourists.

I guarantee , The negativity from the public made the whale watching Companies and Natives put pressure the government. Hunters have actually been in some of these spots, while the whale watching companies were in there doing tours. Its still an issue with the black bears.

only difference with the Black Bears, is they are eatable. So we still have a real case to hunt black bears. G bears were easy picking for the government

I know some of these guys, and they are going to extremely happy this ban is taking place ... its always about money.

[Huevos]

What do you guys think? Could this fit within the definition of discrimination?
www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/law-crime-and-justice/human-rights/human-rights-protection/what-you-need-to-know.pdf (http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/law-crime-and-justice/human-rights/human-rights-protection/what-you-need-to-know.pdf)

Class action suit by 100,000 bc residents that are being discriminated against? Is there legal avenues we can take to fight this unjust decision?

These guys got it all figured, take away predator hunts, predators overpopulate and wipe out the ungulates, then take away the ungulate hunt. Then who is only hunting for meat?

[antlerking]

These articles talk about "peopled surveyed" and 80% of BC'ers supporting the decision. When was this supposed survey done??? I didn't get a questionnaire in the mail ,did any of you? im guessing not. My guess is their survey was done at a starbucks on robson street or at the rainforest café. complete crap. I would be more accepting of the decision if there was a legitimate province wide survey done and 80% of ALL BC'ers felt this way. Maybe 80% of the Vancouver people feel this way but im pretty sure a legitimate province wide survey would show a very different result.
The next question is if/when the libs get back in power can they reverse this decision?? and if they can ,will they??

Liberals will reverse the ban on grizzly hunting just like they did the last time NDP banned it. Beware though if the NDP/GREENS get election reform we will never be able to get rid of them! I feel that is our biggest threat right now. All the letters in the world will do nothing to bring back the hunt ,the only way to bring it back is to kick them to the curb!

[antlerking]

What do you guys think? Could this fit within the definition of discrimination?
www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/law-crime-and-justice/human-rights/human-rights-protection/what-you-need-to-know.pdf (http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/law-crime-and-justice/human-rights/human-rights-protection/what-you-need-to-know.pdf)

Class action suit by 100,000 bc residents that are being discriminated against? Is there legal avenues we can take to fight this unjust decision?

These guys got it all figured, take away predator hunts, predators overpopulate and wipe out the ungulates, then take away the ungulate hunt. Then who is only hunting for meat?

Sorry that would never fly, FN hunting rights were written long before your time. What surprised me was they even mentioned the fact they would be allowed to hunt Grizzly when legally they could never stop them anyways ! Maybe it was made as a gesture to show they had their backs! So now they can use the token Indian to get what they want

[Moose63]

I posted this on their FB page:

Grizzly populations are stable or increasing in most regions of BC. Salmon stocks are declining. Maybe time to look at banning salmon fishing. More science to support that notion that banning the grizzly hunt. Besides, it's way less expensive to simply buy a fish at the store. How is selling fishing trips to people that enjoy dragging a metal hook around the ocean until they impale a salmon, and who take pleasure in dragging in that fish while it fights for its life more justifiable than grizzly hunting?? It's not.

Good one........

[Wolfdown]

Lol discrimination.. give me a break! I really had no idea how badly entitled some of us hunters really think they are until something happens they don’t like and they throw childish fits over it.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

These articles talk about "peopled surveyed" and 80% of BC'ers supporting the decision. When was this supposed survey done??? I didn't get a questionnaire in the mail ,did any of you? im guessing not. My guess is their survey was done at a starbucks on robson street or at the rainforest café. complete crap. I would be more accepting of the decision if there was a legitimate province wide survey done and 80% of ALL BC'ers felt this way. Maybe 80% of the Vancouver people feel this way but im pretty sure a legitimate province wide survey would show a very different result.
The next question is if/when the libs get back in power can they reverse this decision?? and if they can ,will they??

The govt asked for feedback after they announced that it would be a meat only hunt. It was posted on here a few times. The problem was it was also posted all over the anti grizzly hunting social media as well.
A lot of the antis don't even live here in BC.... don't pay taxes here and don't vote in our elections....yet their opinions counted as far as our govt was concerned.
This was all premeditated by our govt plain and simple. Stir up a hornets nest with their decision and then pretend to care about the publics opinion.

SSS

[338win mag]

Funny how things work, the only group of people who put anything back to wildlife in this province get dumped on, again.

While this is just the beginning, at the same time the resident hunting community is made to look like savages who kill for the fun of killing, this is done through advertising, underhanded and misleading to the general populace of this province. to justify their actions.
The G/O are going to get hit hard too for a few years, I'm sure they will be compensated for their loss, I will shed as many tears for them as they shed for the resident hunters who got ****** over the allocation.

Its pure political....thumbs up to site C, thumbs down to grizzly hunting.
The seed eater that keeps showing his mug on global was spitting mad over the site C approval, and pissing himself giggly over the grizz hunt being cancelled, the fickell misguided minion, Joe Foy is his name.

I'm really beginning to wonder if government has any business being involved with wildlife management in this province, they dont put anything into it, and if their going to pander to their misguided voters then I dont think they should, it should be an independent governing body.

[boblly1]

I am pretty sure that the parties concerned realize what they have done and do not care about the fact that they just lost the vote of every tax paying hunter in the province. But don`t worry they will beg and plead for it in the next election. They know that we will forget by then and give it again knowing how stupid we can be. If they don`t want to be a part of the wildlife management team why not step away from the limited entry hunting program jackpot and hire a private party to use these funds along with licensing tags and taxes from hunting firearms, ammunition hunting , and all the other accessories. They probably would have enough funding for everything needed. Right down to administration.For sure if the treated all hunters the same WHITE or DARK. I am just ranting sorry if any politicians past or present were offended by my words

[guest]

[QUOTE=Jagermeister;1963729]I forgot my other claim to fame. The $1500+ GLoomis speyrod and reel combo that I donated to the NVRGC in their dispute with DLCC. Say Curlytop, did you drop some coin into that coffer?[/QUOTE

good on ya,

mind you, I don't need to puff up my chest. You can find where my support lies.


You said it's soon over ......... It's not by a long shot.

Don't give the anti's what they want.

[Ride Red]

Don't mistake my comments as support for the NDP. All governments are corrupt, just some more than others, with some gaining ground.



Little or no social license to hunt Grizzly bears is why we are here today. Smart remarks won't change that.

You already did by voting for them.

[Pemby_mess]

What do you guys think? Could this fit within the definition of discrimination?
www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/law-crime-and-justice/human-rights/human-rights-protection/what-you-need-to-know.pdf (http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/law-crime-and-justice/human-rights/human-rights-protection/what-you-need-to-know.pdf)

Class action suit by 100,000 bc residents that are being discriminated against? Is there legal avenues we can take to fight this unjust decision?

These guys got it all figured, take away predator hunts, predators overpopulate and wipe out the ungulates, then take away the ungulate hunt. Then who is only hunting for meat?

discrimination under the human rights act⁇ lol, what have you been smoking﹖

[338win mag]

I dont get the social license mentality, sounds like its trying to reason with a 3 year old....I get the concept but realistically trying to change someones mind who is against hunting in general is a waste of time. I dont need approval as Red Mist said, its already been approved by my generation and the previous generations in this province.

[digginsweatinswearin]

Although I personally haven't hunted grizzlies, I don't support the total ban on hunting them.
I believe you're right in that there was probably a trade off between the site C dam announcement
and this total ban which the Greens support. The public seldom knows just what goes on behind
those closed doors.


100% a trade off for the site C project, they pissed off the fan base that got them into power. Notice how fast this was done after the site C announcement?

[Rackmastr]

Class action suit by 100,000 bc residents that are being discriminated against? Is there legal avenues we can take to fight this unjust decision?


Hahaha, first off I think you are reaching extremely far....secondly, we could hardly get a couple thousand people involved to write a simple email.....

[northernguy]

I think that any of the organizations (WWC, Rain Forest, the G-bear Tour Operators etc.) that pushed to close the hunt should have to make up the HCF funding shortfall due to the cancellation. They got a free ride. Hunters should be announcing loud and clear that these organizations have effectively helped remove significant funds from the HCF and that they have done nothing to replace the money nor have they proposed a funding model of their own.

So...lets petition the Govt. to put a surcharge on the G-Bear viewing operators that will go directly to the HCF.

Ya have to pay to play. The hunting community did. It's time for the new "stakeholders" to pay to play.

[hunter1947]

Wayne Willman (https://www.facebook.com/wayne.willman.1?fref=ufi&rc=p)NDP have no clue on what's right or wrong they are pencil pushers and have no clue on managing the grizzly bear population I have been in the wild hiking the mountains now for 62 years and I see whats out there the NDP don't see whats out there the NDP hear from all the people that don't want grizzly bears for trophy hunting ,,all you people against grizzly bear hunting most of you don't know how many grizzlies there are out there In the past 10 years grizzly bears are in the increase what I have seen out there,,having the LEH for grizzles kept them from populating to big numbers now that they have stopped the grizzly hunts they are going to populate to big numbers and all you people that are against this bear hunt sham on you all,,I myself never put in for a LEH draw for grizzly bears so you people can't hold this against me for wanting the Grizzly bear LEH draw,,the people that hike out in gods land and your against grizzly hunting when a grizzly bits into your skull remember my wording,,man has screwed up everything on this beautiful planet we live on and its up to us humans to fix whatever we can so things are right and closing the grizzly bear hunts are not one of them there has to be control on wildlife and grizzly bears are one of them

[finaddict]

I think that any of the organizations (WWC, Rain Forest, the G-bear Tour Operators etc.) that pushed to close the hunt should have to make up the HCF funding shortfall due to the cancellation. They got a free ride. Hunters should be announcing loud and clear that these organizations have effectively helped remove significant funds from the HCF and that they have done nothing to replace the money nor have they proposed a funding model of their own.

So...lets petition the Govt. to put a surcharge on the G-Bear viewing operators that will go directly to the HCF.

Ya have to pay to play. The hunting community did. It's time for the new "stakeholders" to pay to play.I am wondering if that is the best approach. If we set a GB "viewing tax" we set a dangerous new precedence for influence on all decisions of that resource management based on value rather than science. This is the same path we have unfortunately taken on timber harvesting and look at where we are now on silvicultural reclamation after harvest. Timber companies now leave EVERYTHING on the ground and only take the timber with value under the ploy of ground cover and its beneficial effects. A bit of a segway, but what I am really trying to say is that the Gbear viewing industry will now take another uptick in its influence and ability to manipulate the resource use soley for its own benefit and not for multiple usage. Do we really want to fortify that with additional monetary influence on the decision making process?

[northernguy]

^^^Good point. But hunters didn't have much influence despite the money they put into the pot. Either way...I think we should be letting the public know that the decision has cost conservation efforts some money and the question needs to be asked, "how will the shortfall be rectified"...and we need to ask the question of both the Govt and those that opposed the hunt.

The loss of HCF money is just the "cost of doing business" to the groups that opposed the hunt and it really demonstrates that they are driven by ideology and not conservation (We know that...but the general public doesn't). Lets ask them the tough questions and watch them gasp like guppies for a response:-P

[Bugle M In]

I think we have a better chance of making hunting a "religion":shock:....
We can call it the "Church of Huntology"!...
Get it deemed as religion....then we will be allowed to practice our own "Religious Freedom"..
and nothing the Government can do then to "stop hunting"....cause it would be our right to hunt...
.....just saying...with the little humor I have left at this time.

[guest]

Where's the LIKE BUTTON !

Goodin Bugle!

[Jagermeister]

I think that any of the organizations (WWC, Rain Forest, the G-bear Tour Operators etc.) that pushed to close the hunt should have to make up the HCF funding shortfall due to the cancellation. They got a free ride. Hunters should be announcing loud and clear that these organizations have effectively helped remove significant funds from the HCF and that they have done nothing to replace the money nor have they proposed a funding model of their own.

So...lets petition the Govt. to put a surcharge on the G-Bear viewing operators that will go directly to the HCF.

Ya have to pay to play. The hunting community did. It's time for the new "stakeholders" to pay to play.
I like your suggestion. I think I will put forth the idea to my MLA and a few others. Thanks for the bright idea

[Whonnock Boy]

The lesser of two evils. Again, a majority of respondents are laying blame on the party when most lies solely on ourselves. We have failed to educate the public on the benefits of science based wildlife management.


You already did by voting for them.

[303savage]

Well that is grizzly on the no hunt list, what's next to get banned?

[finaddict]

The lesser of two evils. Lets review that statement again in another 6 months when the Dippers have run out of budget surplus to rain down on their socialist hoard of snowflakes and millennials. :mrgreen:

[Grumpa Joe]

The lesser of two evils. Again, a majority of respondents are laying blame on the party when most lies solely on ourselves. We have failed to educate the public on the benefits of science based wildlife management.

There have been those that have tried but the politically correct stance is the one that the party in power endorses. They are not willing to listen, even to the science based findings that the Auditor General included in their report, tabled in October of this year. I didn't like the Liberals but the NDP and their social engineering agenda are far worse.

This is the email that I have drafted up to send to my MLA, the Minister of Environment (Heyman probably doesn't even know what a tree looks like let alone a grizzly) and the Premier.

Good morning,

I am writing to voice my displeasure at the recent act of imposing a moratorium on the Grizzly Bear hunt in BC. The decision was made, ignoring the government’s own Auditor General’s report on the issues impacting the Grizzlies in BC. It was made strictly on an emotional rather than scientific level. The report pointed out many deficits in the government’s action that would be of greater impact than banning the hunt.
In 2015 $366,000 was collected in the sale of Grizzly tags to hunters. Only $34,000 of this amount actually went to the Habitat Conservation Trust Foundation. The rest went to general revenue. These funds should have been employed to better fund the BC Conservation Service, which is running on a skeleton crew, and more extensive research into Grizzly behavior and habitat. Why is money not being spent on the resource that it is collected for and why is there no clear accounting on how the money is being spent?

A big deal has been made about Eco-Tourism and its financial impact on the province. There have not been any independent, non-partisan studies to compare the economic benefits and revenue generated from hunting versus eco-tourism. How much revenue is collected from these enterprises for using the public resources? What consideration has been given to the negative impact that these tourists are having on the wildlife’s habitat? There appears to be no regulations controlling this. What does this interaction do to the habituation of bears to humans and the consequences that will arise as a result? The people in favor of the moratorium also don’t want the Conservation Service euthanizing any animals but this close proximity and loss of fear, for lack of a better word, can only result in them having to euthanize more.

The Auditor General also found that the greatest threat to the Grizzly is not hunting but rather habitat degradation. See above collected revenues for part of the solution. Oil and gas exploration, mining, forestry and populated area expansion have the greatest impact. Is there going to be a moratorium placed on all these things as well? Hunting accounts for between 250 and 300 bears killed a year, usually mature boars that need to be culled to ensure the population left is healthy, young stock for better reproduction. This is amounts to 1.67% to 2% of the estimated population. That in itself is a very low mortality rate attributed to hunters, again remembering that they are targeting old, mature boars.

I personally have never hunted grizzlies and likely never would have but I understand the need to control the population to avoid an increasingly negative impact on the other wildlife of the province and the negative interactions between bears and people that will arise from this moratorium. The grizzly is the apex predator of this province and without some hunter involvement to keep their population in check there is very little to control their territorial expansion and the associated problems that will ensue. The argument that we should have grizzlies roaming all parts of the province once again is ridiculous. Our impacts from the population expansion that have already occurred make it so that this is impossible.

Blaming previous governments or agencies for the real or perceived problem is a cop out. This issue has been ongoing for decades. Pandering to people that have never in their lives done a single thing, aside from occasionally recycling, to improve the natural habitat or animal husbandry like many of the outdoors people (hunters and fishers) involve themselves in, will never bring about a long term solution.

[Pemby_mess]

^for things like this, brevity is a virtue.

[Grumpa Joe]

^for things like this, brevity is a virtue.

I thought of "I don't like it" but it didn't seem to cut it. Seriously though, if you don't support your position they will simply ignore your objection. MHO. The most important thing is to communicate your opinion in whatever way you like.

[Fisher-Dude]

Send it as is, Paralyzer.

You cover the salient points without verbosity. Kudos for being one who stands up for that in which he believes.

Pay no mind to that upstart Pemby, he hasn't written a single thing to his MLA to help wildlife.

[Chopper]

I like how no one read my post ... like i said, the B.C government can sell a bear for for an easy 100k a day in eco tourism, they can do that for months.

you guys are not seeing the big picture here.

[Pemby_mess]

Pemby,

I agree, we can do a better job of being "courteous".....
But, it's hard when that same thing is not returned back....
.

Oh Boo hoo!
who cares what other people do? Does it effect you that much what other people say. Ranting and raving, passing innuendo on people's character, calling people spies, plants, trolls, traitors, commies, impostors, stupid, naive, etc when they have a differing take on things?
Where's the leadership? No productive planning or action is going to take place without it.

When has being hysterical, and attacking potential allies ever done anybody any good. A lot more introspection needs to happen here, because the way the hunting community is trying to work things out currently, just isn't advancing anything.

Lots of snowflakes falling up here.

[325]

You guys would not believe the zodiak's and whale watching boats heading up Knights and Bute inlet during the fall. Charging 3-$400 a head, Doing 2 or three trips a day, with 12-30 passengers. Natives are charging the non indigenous
whale watching companies $200 a head. "which is included in the $400". Eco tourism right now is CRUSHING the revenue That hunting and guided hunts are bringing in. Its not even close, Eco tourism can sell a bear for $100,000 a day EASY !!! ... for months ! how can they justify us shooting them ?




So for sure there was pressure was from the Natives and the whale watching companies. If you have LEH draws in the Orford River, The natives wont let get off your boat to hunt in there until the bear watching is done. In fear someone will show up with an ELK on the dock in front of tourists.

I guarantee , The negativity from the public made the whale watching Companies and Natives put pressure the government. Hunters have actually been in some of these spots, while the whale watching companies were in there doing tours. Its still an issue with the black bears.

only difference with the Black Bears, is they are eatable. So we still have a real case to hunt black bears. G bears were easy picking for the government

I know some of these guys, and they are going to extremely happy this ban is taking place ... its always about money.


Hunting and bear viewing are not mutually exclusive. There are probably bear viewing areas that should be closed to hunting, but BC is a big province with a lot of bears, most living in areas without bear viewing businesses.

[Pemby_mess]

I like how no one read my post ... like i said, the B.C government can sell a bear for for an easy 100k a day in eco tourism, they can do that for months.

you guys are not seeing the big picture here.

I read it, and know that you're absolutely right. I've been saying the same thing for years, on here included. Just an other piece of forfeighted ground without winning anything in return.

[Pemby_mess]

Hunting and bear viewing are not mutually exclusive. There are probably bear viewing areas that should be closed to hunting, but BC is a big province with a lot of bears, most living in areas without bear viewing businesses.

yeah, it's really too bad many bear hunters didn't see that prior to the pendulum swing. Just an other example of where the scorched earth, no retreat strategy was so so effective.

[Pemby_mess]

I thought of "I don't like it" but it didn't seem to cut it. Seriously though, if you don't support your position they will simply ignore your objection. MHO. The most important thing is to communicate your opinion in whatever way you like.

That's definitely true, it's fine. My apologies.

[Pemby_mess]

Pay no mind to that upstart Pemby, he hasn't written a single thing to his MLA to help wildlife.

Is that so? If so, prove it. It's time you start putting some money where your mouth is. You make an accusation, back it up.

[Weatherby Fan]

I wrote a to the point letter expressing my displeasure on the NDP/Green's decision to our reprasenative in our area, Bob D'Eith

[Ohwildwon]

Liberal MLA Peter Milobar was on CKNW 10:30 am today...

Ah, they sort of have are backs?

[finaddict]

Liberal MLA Peter Milobar was on CKNW 10:30 am today...

Ah, they sort of have are backs?Or it could be just opportunistic double speak. Seemed to work pretty damn well for Weaver.....

[Bugle M In]

Oh Boo hoo!
who cares what other people do? Does it effect you that much what other people say. Ranting and raving, passing innuendo on people's character, calling people spies, plants, trolls, traitors, commies, impostors, stupid, naive, etc when they have a differing take on things?
Where's the leadership? No productive planning or action is going to take place without it.

When has being hysterical, and attacking potential allies ever done anybody any good. A lot more introspection needs to happen here, because the way the hunting community is trying to work things out currently, just isn't advancing anything.

Lots of snowflakes falling up here.

Correct me if I am wrong...but was it you that said people on here were "too harsh", "rude" etc when Dr.Weaver
came on this site????
All I said is people could be a little more courteous...but....they had Weaver pegged perfectly....not to be believed!.
Other than that...not sure what your gripe is??? don't care either...
Whats in the past is in the past...
All people can do is move forward...look at what could have been done different....try to clean it up, change it...
then stand together and push back....
But this whole issue is a major PR campaign....in my opinion....
Since the decision was based on "the majority of individuals" (stated by Heyman) want to see the hunt abolished,
due to emotion...not any other reason...like endangered species...etc...
Then the only angle is to show the majority there is more to hunting...
to show there is more then pulling a trigger..
That some take the time to help wildlife thru their own 2 hands...restoring habitat...
That's how we go about it....
And, since it was a political move....
All we can do is push back when it comes time to vote as well.

[lisah]

Here is the official media release from the Wild Sheep Society of BC.

If you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact executive director Lisa Hettrich at exec@wildsheepsociety.com


"From Science to Politics; the British Columbia Government Ends the Grizzly Bear Hunt

On December 18, 2017, the provincial government announced an end to grizzly bear hunting in British Columbia. This decision completely undermines scientific management of wildlife and is a strong departure from the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation. Independent scientific studies and Auditor General Carol Bellringer’s report confirm the sustainability of the BC grizzly bear hunt.

By ending the grizzly bear hunt, British Columbia loses its main source of revenue used to conserve grizzly bears and their habitat. The government currently has no plans to replace this revenue and find an alternative solution to managing these populations. The WSSBC is alarmed and concerned that the provincial government has no plans to address the conservation challenges grizzly bears face, including habitat encroachment through land-use patterns and activities .The government has not given any consideration about the negative ecological impacts this decision will have on all wildlife species.

The WSSBC has been involved in the consultation process after the government’s announcement to ban the ‘trophy hunting of grizzly bears’. Throughout this consultative process the WSSBC and other stakeholders were engaged in discussions regarding ‘trophy parts’ and were assured by government that there were no plans to end the grizzly bear hunt. The sudden change in regulation, without consultation, shows the government cannot act in good-faith on behalf of its citizens. The provincial wide end of the grizzly bear hunt completely undermines the transparency of government decision making in British Columbia.

This decision was based solely on a political agenda and emotionally charged rhetoric funded by non government organizations. The WSSBC believes there is absolutely no place for politics in wildlife management.

In the coming months the WSSBC will continue to engage with government and support the scientific management of wildlife and transparent decision making processes in British Columbia.


Yours in conservation,

Rodney Zeeman,
President
Wild Sheep Society of BC"

[Bugle M In]

The lesser of two evils. Again, a majority of respondents are laying blame on the party when most lies solely on ourselves. We have failed to educate the public on the benefits of science based wildlife management.

You make a good point...
It is something that needs to be addressed as well....for sure...
Had we done a better job...then maybe hunting would be more socially acceptable then it is right now.
Like I have said...some of the vidoes and images that circulate thru the cyberworld and tv media make me even
cringe!
We as hunters do need to rebrand ourselves....to look at what we are actually portraying 1st.
Your point may not be getting addresses.....hard when it was such a "political move" right now...
but, you have points that do need to added to the pot.
Maybe this will end up in another thread???
Something like "Ideas on how to move forward as hunters"...something like that...???
Seems we do need to take the time to give input / thought and discussion on that...
How to PR ourselves better for the future??

[antlerking]

All the letters in the world will do absolutely nothing except make you feel good. The government is not interested in the economic value of the Grizzlies from Eco tourism either! Their objective was to stop the hunt plan and simple . How do all these special interest groups get their way? Civil disobedience,road blocks,sit ins,and mass propaganda campaigns. Maybe it's time for hunters as a group to get on board to be heard! Set up our own "Wildlife Branch" that sets out rules,hunting seasons,bag limits,inforcement and base it all on science! Some will be arrested,fined,and punished but I guarantee we would then be heard and changes would happen!

[squamishhunter]

How can it be our (hunters) fault; this is clearly pandering to their base in lieu of the site C decision.

[Ride Red]

Correct me if I am wrong...but was it you that said people on here were "too harsh", "rude" etc when Dr.Weaver
came on this site????
All I said is people could be a little more courteous...but....they had Weaver pegged perfectly....not to be believed!.
Other than that...not sure what your gripe is??? don't care either...
Whats in the past is in the past...
All people can do is move forward...look at what could have been done different....try to clean it up, change it...
then stand together and push back....
But this whole issue is a major PR campaign....in my opinion....
Since the decision was based on "the majority of individuals" (stated by Heyman) want to see the hunt abolished,
due to emotion...not any other reason...like endangered species...etc...
Then the only angle is to show the majority there is more to hunting...
to show there is more then pulling a trigger..
That some take the time to help wildlife thru their own 2 hands...restoring habitat...
That's how we go about it....
And, since it was a political move....
All we can do is push back when it comes time to vote as well.

Spy was the one supporting Weaver.

[Wolfdown]

I like how no one read my post ... like i said, the B.C government can sell a bear for for an easy 100k a day in eco tourism, they can do that for months.

you guys are not seeing the big picture here. are you surprised? Us here are just as bad as those of who that want the hunt banned! They hear/see what they want to hear/see. The favourite word on this thread is “science based”

[Whonnock Boy]

The hunting industry is doing untold harm on the hunting community, all with economic drivers pulling the strings. We need more proponents like Steven Rinella, and fewer people like..... a majority of the others. Commercialization of hunting has done irreparable damage to the hunting community all in the name of the almighty dollar. I rarely, if ever watch any of the popular shows any longer due to my disdain for the whooping, hollering, and high fives that is all to common. That's right, I will throw them under the bus as they don't make a realistic comparison to a majority of every day hunters who do it for a multitude of other reasons other than targeting the biggest, widest, baddest example of any given species. They need to fade into obscurity.





Like I have said...some of the vidoes and images that circulate thru the cyberworld and tv media make me even
cringe!

[Gateholio]

I like how no one read my post ... like i said, the B.C government can sell a bear for for an easy 100k a day in eco tourism, they can do that for months.

you guys are not seeing the big picture here.


These businesses were built with grizzly hunting going on. The two are not mutually exclusive. The tour operators want the whole pie though.

[Ride Red]

The hunting industry is doing untold harm on the hunting community, all with economic drivers pulling the strings. We need more proponents like Steven Rinella, and fewer people like..... a majority of the others. Commercialization of hunting has done irreparable damage to the hunting community all in the name of the almighty dollar. I rarely, if ever watch any of the popular shows any longer due to my disdain for the whooping, hollering, and high fives that is all to common. That's right, I will throw them under the bus as they don't make a realistic comparison to a majority of every day hunters who do it for a multitude of other reasons other than targeting the biggest, widest, baddest example of any given species. They need to fade into obscurity.

We shouldn't be closet hunters either.

[IronNoggin]

There is an exceeding close parallel between what just happened with BC Grizzlies, and historically with California Mountain Lions.
In 1990, the government finally calved to the pressure being brought by various NGO's, most notably the HSUS, to have a complete ban placed on the hunting of Mountain Lions statewide. There as well, it was widely recognized that overall the State's population of the big cats was doing well, and under no threat from hunting whatsoever. But those who held themselves morally aloft from the people who actually went out of doors carried the day...

Over the years since, the number of problem incidents with the cats jumped. Many had to be destroyed.
Some went so far as to enter the sacred urban areas, much to the dismay of those who had sued for their protection. Many more were killed.
Livestock depredation jumped exponentially (and continues to be a significant issue today). More deaths.
The State's population of bighorn sheep was so decimated they hit the Endangered Species List directly due to the increase in cat numbers. More taken out.
Mule deer populations plummeted, no surprise that 68% of their mortalities were brought about by the cats. More killed.

On and on, around and around it goes. To any with an open mind, the declines of ungulates, attacks on humans & livestock and encroachment on urban areas all fall to one suspect - the lack of direct management of the cats themselves. BUT, HSUS and their colleagues foam at the mouth and drive their legions into a frenzy whenever any discussion of that possibility is introduced. And being California, they carry the day. The CO service gets stretched overly thin dealing with problem cats. More livestock are killed. Deer and sheep populations continue to fall. Negative human interactions level off at rates much higher than before the ban. And no amount of killing by the CO's can possibly keep up with the cat's population increases...

Interesting read for any who wish to look into the California matter: https://www.gohunt.com/read/life/the-political-spiral-of-mountain-lions-in-california#gs.ZX1LQ_k

Not difficult for most I would guess to see the direct parallels here.
A shame most can't wrap their minds around the need, at this point in time and into the future, of management via Science, and not uninformed emotion...

Cheers,
Nog

[Pemby_mess]

The hunting industry is doing untold harm on the hunting community, all with economic drivers pulling the strings. We need more proponents like Steven Rinella, and fewer people like..... a majority of the others. Commercialization of hunting has done irreparable damage to the hunting community all in the name of the almighty dollar. I rarely, if ever watch any of the popular shows any longer due to my disdain for the whooping, hollering, and high fives that is all to common. That's right, I will throw them under the bus as they don't make a realistic comparison to a majority of every day hunters who do it for a multitude of other reasons other than targeting the biggest, widest, baddest example of any given species. They need to fade into obscurity.

I'd have to agree with that. I proudly talk about the reasons I have desire to hunt, and often find myself on defence with some urban folks that have no exposure to it. They sometimes know a lot more about what goes on during these hunting shows, and through social media than I do. It's very difficult to counter that, especially when it's all so visual, and I am generally armed merely with my philosophy on the spot.

Steve Rinella is in an other league. I'd find it difficult to imagine anybody finding fault with anything he publicly says and does. Incredibly diplomatic. He's the example many more should follow.

Combining the false bravado of wannabe reality tv stars with social media and Internet forums looks a lot like flushing toilet from a PR perspective.

[Jagermeister]

I want to apologize to each and everyone for initiating this thread.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?140865-The-Greens

I should have known better than to suck up Weaver's crap. IMO, the greens and their agenda is a stab in the back.

[Pemby_mess]

There is an exceeding close parallel between what just happened with BC Grizzlies, and historically with California Mountain Lions.
In 1990, the government finally calved to the pressure being brought by various NGO's, most notably the HSUS, to have a complete ban placed on the hunting of Mountain Lions statewide. There as well, it was widely recognized that overall the State's population of the big cats was doing well, and under no threat from hunting whatsoever. But those who held themselves morally aloft from the people who actually went out of doors carried the day...

Over the years since, the number of problem incidents with the cats jumped. Many had to be destroyed.
Some went so far as to enter the sacred urban areas, much to the dismay of those who had sued for their protection. Many more were killed.
Livestock depredation jumped exponentially (and continues to be a significant issue today). More deaths.
The State's population of bighorn sheep was so decimated they hit the Endangered Species List directly due to the increase in cat numbers. More taken out.
Mule deer populations plummeted, no surprise that 68% of their mortalities were brought about by the cats. More killed.

On and on, around and around it goes. To any with an open mind, the declines of ungulates, attacks on humans & livestock and encroachment on urban areas all fall to one suspect - the lack of direct management of the cats themselves. BUT, HSUS and their colleagues foam at the mouth and drive their legions into a frenzy whenever any discussion of that possibility is introduced. And being California, they carry the day. The CO service gets stretched overly thin dealing with problem cats. More livestock are killed. Deer and sheep populations continue to fall. Negative human interactions level off at rates much higher than before the ban. And no amount of killing by the CO's can possibly keep up with the cat's population increases...

Interesting read for any who wish to look into the California matter: https://www.gohunt.com/read/life/the-political-spiral-of-mountain-lions-in-california#gs.ZX1LQ_k

Not difficult for most I would guess to see the direct parallels here.
A shame most can't wrap their minds around the need, at this point in time and into the future, of management via Science, and not uninformed emotion...

Cheers,
Nog

Thats actually a really good case study - put it in the ammo can.

Mountain Lions are listed as a "specially protected" species in California. That's similar to the status of Grizzly bears here. The populations are both large and stable, but have been extirpated from their traditional range. Mostly due to habitat loss and urban encroachment. Their label is such that their vulnerability is recognized; not to mean nevessarily facing an imminent threat.

The general public, including many school teachers and the like, almost certainly can't define a species' status conceptually. That's a communication opportunity. To realize said opportunity, Its hunters that are going to have to recognize the facts around the species vulnerability to be taken as credible.

Defensively claiming that "everything is fine" when faced with misinterpreted definitions is going to backfire. Realistically acknowledging true threats species faces, although potentially compatible with hunting (control), brings us to the common enemy - habitat degradation/loss. Can't get on board with that- you're just as "anti-science" as anyone else.

The primary concern from the other side is;

Are hunters as a group, prepared to acknowledge a legitimate shutdown of a bonafide species under threat. My gut-feeling is yes/no depending on how things are communicated. It seems like there is a heavy penchant for science denial in the hunting community in other disciplines, and a preference for anecdotes. It will be hard for the general public to reconcile that with "science-based" wildlife management.

[Whonnock Boy]

Nobody said we should. Don't you have a little brother or sister you can pick on? Your little jabs are getting tiresome.


We shouldn't be closet hunters either.

[Bugle M In]

I want to apologize to each and everyone for initiating this thread.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?140865-The-Greens

I should have known better than to suck up Weaver's crap. IMO, the greens and their agenda is a stab in the back.

Don't have to apologize to me....
You have been a long time member...just trying to discuss stuff in a civil manner...
Truth is...it's like discussing it with a Vegan....
Funny thing is.....I don't try to tell a vegan that they should eat meat....
I just say...okay...I'm good with that...it's their body, their choice....
BUT....
They have "NO RIGHT" to tell me, that I should do the same as them...
It's my body, my right, to feed it what I feel I need...and I like steak and fish and poultry....
And if I can get it myself...cudo's to me!!...but, I also accept that some are unable to kill, but still want to
eat meat....
Basically, I am the one accepting other peoples views...they just don't want to accept ours....
That's Weaver...that's the Greens...and that Heyman...
Heyman said "straight to my face"...that the NDP would support hunters if it was for meat!!!!!
Well...guess what....in comes the vote. or worried that Site C would lose them votes...so they sacrificed us!
Ironic....we became the "Sacrificial Lamb".....doesn't sound so Vegan to me!
Anyways...that is the issue with talking to them...you can't.
What we can do is look at all the ridings where the Liberals lost by only a few votes....
We need to ask those Liberal members where they stand on this subject.
Get it in writing....
If they will support us...then acknowledge the fact to them that we will support them during the next campaign.
Lets face it...some ridings will never get a change by voters...
Theres always going to be a few ridings that will stay Green on the island.
Heyman won by a large margin by my place...cant see my vote changing much there...
Unless we can find some dirt on him???
(does he have any sexual assault charges that are tucked away??...who knows, but people generally have
skeletons in the closet...seems to be that many politicians have a big pile of them hiding somewhere)
But, its going to take some crap like that to lose support for him around here....IMO...
But, there probably are a few NDP ridings that could lose with just a few extra votes...that's the target.
And, to represent ourselves, conduct ourselves in a better manner moving forward as socially responsible folks,
who really do care about the animals we harvest, and want to do more to ensure there future as well.

[Bugle M In]

We shouldn't be closet hunters either.

No...we shouldn't be closet folks either....
But, like that one club (WK R&G said)...
they do do a lot of volunteer time out there to help wildlife...
But it doesn't seem to make it to the media and for the non hunting community to see and support.
What they see is bear running in circles after 10 shots, or a bunch of red necks doing high fives etc.
We do need to show what good we can do, are doing, and a lot less of that other crap.
Media loves "dirty laundry"...the things that pulls on peoples "heart strings".
We have to show them things that go to their heart....make them "feel good" about us being out there.

[604hunting]

this post is very discouraging, people are going at each other over other topics like atvs etc. What we need is all hunters to band together and have a united voice on our opinions. there are a lot of us on here if we would just band together like the anti wolf cull organizations etc, then we could really see some changes happen for the better. takes more than a few though.

[Ride Red]

Nobody said we should. Don't you have a little brother or sister you can pick on? Your little jabs are getting tiresome.

Just stating a fact.

[barry1974w]

I welcome all closures of motor vehicles used for hunting :)

Where can I vote to keep all ATVs and 4x4s on designated, NAMED roads only?

:D

divde and conquer...... attitude like this is what will ruin everything for all of us. First it would be motor vehicles, then why not firearms...... @&#$tard

[Pemby_mess]

No...we shouldn't be closet folks either....
But, like that one club (WK R&G said)...
they do do a lot of volunteer time out there to help wildlife...
But it doesn't seem to make it to the media and for the non hunting community to see and support.
What they see is bear running in circles after 10 shots, or a bunch of red necks doing high fives etc.
We do need to show what good we can do, are doing, and a lot less of that other crap.
Media loves "dirty laundry"...the things that pulls on peoples "heart strings".
We have to show them things that go to their heart....make them "feel good" about us being out there.

Right,

there is is a lot of ground between hiding in a closet, and rubbing blood all over people's noses.

since hunting is obviously contentious in the modern world, it's beneficial for us to do everything in our power to present it in the best possible light. With everything being on video or film nowadays, it's much easier for the public to become quesy. Images trigger strong emotions much better than rational discussion. That should be remembered always.

There's also a difference between sharing what you believe in a rational thoughtful manner, and antagonizing someone with those same beliefs.

[Pemby_mess]

divde and conquer...... attitude like this is what will ruin everything for all of us. First it would be motor vehicles, then why not firearms...... @&#$tard

Being surrounded by ORVs in a place where one should reasonably expect solitude ruins everything for me and all who follow me on account of the damage and garbage they leave behind.

I understand there is a place for off-road vehicles, but they need to be heavily reigned in. That's just common sense. I don't think they should be allowed above treeline by default. There is already some weak legislation to that effect, but there are enough people out there that don't give a rats ass and are truly ruining things for all of us.

[barry1974w]

So you clearly missed the second sentence in that post. Either way, I won't read or reply again, so don't bother :)

ohhh, are your feelings hurt????

[Whonnock Boy]

Could not agree more.


Being surrounded by ORVs in a place where one should reasonably expect solitude ruins everything for me and all who follow me on account of the damage and garbage they leave behind.

I understand there is a place for off-road vehicles, but they need to be heavily reigned in. That's just common sense. I don't think they should be allowed above treeline by default. There is already some weak legislation to that effect, but there are enough people out there that don't give a rats ass and are truly ruining things for all of us.

[Salty]

Being surrounded by ORVs in a place where one should reasonably expect solitude ruins everything for me and all who follow me on account of the damage and garbage they leave behind.

I understand there is a place for off-road vehicles, but they need to be heavily reigned in. That's just common sense. I don't think they should be allowed above treeline by default. There is already some weak legislation to that effect, but there are enough people out there that don't give a rats ass and are truly ruining things for all of us.

By definition you can't regulate people that don't give a rats ass. This should be a simple concept but a lot of people are wired to ignore this fact and release their inner planner and want to pile on rules for every conceivable possibility. What is needed if you're finding people ripping around in the alpine is a call to RAPP as there's clear rules against this and they've been updated quite recently. I wouldn't call it weak legislation, no weaker than any other provincial environmental legislation anyways. Enforcement? That I would say is weak.

[mpotzold]

Mike Smyth Dec. 18, 2017 PROVINCE -One week after angering environmentalists by approving the Site C dam, B.C.’s NDP government gave them an early Christmas present on Monday with a surprise ban.

I don’t think it was a surprise ban. They knew it was coming. It happened in 2001. It was only a matter of time-sooner rather than later. Besides, who in the right mind would hunt grizzly for food only.

There is nothing we can do about it until the next election on May 11, 2021. AW will not topple the NDP & the recall is unlikely to succeed. Also can't recall during the first 18 months.

SO-Grin & bear it. PERIOD!

Fasten your seat belt & get ready for more anti-hunting surprises coming.
Here’s some
-no more sport hunting
-some type of more gun control(changing the Firearm Act BC)
-Endangered Species Act introduced
-limited use if any of motorized vehicle during pursuit
-drastically cutting number & time of animals to be harvested
-no more GOS

[Pemby_mess]

By definition you can't regulate people that don't give a rats ass. This should be a simple concept but a lot of people are wired to ignore this fact and release their inner planner and want to pile on rules for every conceivable possibility. What is needed if you're finding people ripping around in the alpine is a call to RAPP as there's clear rules against this and they've been updated quite recently. I wouldn't call it weak legislation, no weaker than any other provincial environmental legislation anyways. Enforcement? That I would say is weak.

Yes, I stand corrected - weakly enforced regulations. However I discussed the legislation with FD in a thread a while ago, and as he pointed out, the legislation could use some ramparts too. If "existing road" is so loosely defined - that's a problem. Everything above treeline in some areas is an "existing road"

Above treeline should apply to sleds too IMO. Except designated zones and access routes. As it is, it's a free for all out there, and it's devestating to wildlife. The explosion of sleds is the single biggest gift we could have presented wolf populations. I find it hard to believe hunters often seem to not see a connection.

[horshur]

Could not agree more.
Whonnock is a pristine area? ...clean up your own bloody backyard...that's the deal with coasters they live in a dump..constant development...messing up the Fraser..and they want to ban use in nearly pristine areas rather then look in the mirror..or out there window..nimby additude ...not gonna clean up your shit least not in your backyard. But someone else's...bugger off.

[Whonnock Boy]

Grasping at straws in attempts to criticize a person just for who they are does not make you a better person. Have another drink. Sounds like you need it.


Whonnock is a pristine area? ...clean up your own bloody backyard...that's the deal with coasters they live in a dump..constant development...messing up the Fraser..and they want to ban use in nearly pristine areas rather then look in the mirror..or out there window..nimby additude ...not gonna clean up your shit least not in your backyard. But someone else's...bugger off.

[180grainer]

I like how no one read my post ... like i said, the B.C government can sell a bear for for an easy 100k a day in eco tourism, they can do that for months.

you guys are not seeing the big picture here.

Either you or you and the government aren't seeing the big picture. The argument that it's either or, (eco-tourism or bear hunting) is a canard. Both can co-exist quite easily. Grizzly hunting is not diminishing the number of bears available to view and agreements can be made to have certain areas closed or seasons modified to suit either industry. The Eco-fascist have always used the either or argument. Its false. Just like their so called scientific studies of bear populations. They're phuking liars. They've always been liars. They believe they have the moral high ground which makes the means justify the end. The best solution for the government is to allow both to co-exist.

[Sitkaspruce]

Bugle M In, I appreciate your honesty and feel your frustration.
The only thing I disagree with in your reply is the part about the BCWF not being at the table throughout the allocation negotiations.
The BCWF was there....don’t get me started on back door deals....there’s a few of them that have been done and are getting played out and not by GOABC.


The fed was there alright. And then completely ignored while the other two chiseled out how it was going to amongst themselves afterwards.


Were you there?


You know the answer to that. I've been following the BCWF for many years, can't think where I've ever seen them lie in official statements. I'll go with their take over the GOABC's take. I also recall Thompson trying to explain why the announcement was a complete surprise to the fed.


Salty, I knew the answer.
I also know what the guides lost, the bit they got back and the real facts on allocation numbers and not the propaganda the Fed pushed.

This has got to stop!! Going back on stuff that happened in past has to be forgotten and buried.

if we keep bring up the past, we will have no future.....and that is what WE ALL need to focus on. Personally I was pissed at the allocation as being in the industry and saw some of the BS that was being spewed was upsetting, but in the end, I realized that the wildlife was the only one not being looked after....smaller and smaller pie was not going to help anyone.

So please bury this crap and lets ALL start looking to the future, what ever that brings. We need to move forward as a solid group and I observed that here in the Peace. GO is a life style up here and, believe it or not, most of them recognize that resident hunters DO play a role in wildlife management, no more or less than the GO's do. We need to take this forward for the rest of the province.

So lets bury the hatchet, forget about the past doing, right or wrong and start to process of uniting ALL hunters in the province as one single voice so that it can be heard. It needs to be done or we will never get off the ground.

Cheers

SS

[bownut]

Gatehouse, it could get real interesting.

Wow the first True Round Table, who would have thought the G Bear had so much power. All the funding in the world won't change any governments policy.
Time to dig in and sharpen our teeth, it's going to get ugly!

[bownut]

No...we shouldn't be closet folks either....
But, like that one club (WK R&G said)...
they do do a lot of volunteer time out there to help wildlife...
But it doesn't seem to make it to the media and for the non hunting community to see and support.
What they see is bear running in circles after 10 shots, or a bunch of red necks doing high fives etc.
We do need to show what good we can do, are doing, and a lot less of that other crap.
Media loves "dirty laundry"...the things that pulls on peoples "heart strings".
We have to show them things that go to their heart....make them "feel good" about us being out there.

And thats why we need to show off and bring all our efforts to the front lines, the public needs to see where the real fighters are. Time to pop our heads out of the trenches and
show everyone who is really fighting the battles.

[303savage]

Be curious to see if various FN get in the GB guiding business in the near future.
A complete ban on grizzly hunting should mean just that.
Nobody hunts grizzlys
That means natives too. I hope anyway.

[bearvalley]

SS, you’re lucky you’re in the Peace.
Once you get thru the rocks it’s almost like the rest of BC doesn’t exist.

Guide outfitting is a lifestyle in more of BC than just the Peace.
Where I outfit it is recognized that the GO’s are a contributing part of the community and outfitting is a local tradition.
I’m damn sorry to say that Outfitters in a big chunk of the rest of this province get looked at a lot differently than northern outfitters on account of a publicity smear that went on a short few years ago.

It was ugly, it was uncalled for and it was based on untruths.
The only way that some will ever figure that out is if some of the bullshit is exsposed.

I remember very well the last posts put on this forum by Michael Schneider when he tried to explain who and what he was.
The man was tar & feathered by a virtual rabid pack of dogs that had been fed a total line of BS.

He hasn’t been back....too bad....the man has a passion for wildlife and wilderness values.

I do not remember you telling anyone to cut the crap back then....if you had, and others had listened we might not be in the ditch we’re in today.

[Whonnock Boy]

While I'm not interested in a back and forth, let's be honest here, it takes two to tango. The music is off, and nobody wants to dance, but it probably won't take much to get the band back up and playing.



SS, you’re lucky you’re in the Peace.
Once you get thru the rocks it’s almost like the rest of BC doesn’t exist.

Guide outfitting is a lifestyle in more of BC than just the Peace.
Where I outfit it is recognized that the GO’s are a contributing part of the community and outfitting is a local tradition.
I’m damn sorry to say that Outfitters in a big chunk of the rest of this province get looked at a lot differently than northern outfitters on account of a publicity smear that went on a short few years ago.

It was ugly, it was uncalled for and it was based on untruths.
The only way that some will ever figure that out is if some of the bullshit is exsposed.

I remember very well the last posts put on this forum by Michael Schneider when he tried to explain who and what he was.
The man was tar & feathered by a virtual rabid pack of dogs that had been fed a total line of BS.

He hasn’t been back....too bad....the man has a passion for wildlife and wilderness values.

I do not remember you telling anyone to cut the crap back then....if you had, and others had listened we might not be in the ditch we’re in today.

[Ourea]

Wow the first True Round Table, who would have thought the G Bear had so much power. All the funding in the world won't change any governments policy.
Time to dig in and sharpen our teeth, it's going to get ugly!

Funding and votes are the only currencies Gov and decision makers recognize.

You say "our teeth"
You have a track record of undermining the collective and pushing your personal opinion.

When I read and look at posts from members and think who could I drag into a meeting that would help our cause.......who could be an asset at that level.

Very few.

[Pemby_mess]

It was ugly, it was uncalled for and it was based on untruths.
The only way that some will ever figure that out is if some of the bullshit is exsposed.
.

it kind of sounds like you got into a fight, won; and are now blaming your opponent for the injuries you sustained. Did GOs expect not to sustain damage to their reputations after engaging in a civil war with resident hunters?

Best way to win a fight, is to avoid it. That would be a useful lesson from that last exchange.