Hunting season lengths

[Darksith]

Was wondering if anyone knew why deer season in BC or other species for that matter end Dec 10? Thinking about say Reg 3, where Whitetail deer seem to be a concern in regards to out competing the Mule deer. Why not run the season longer, or have say bow only or muzzle loader...hunters out hunting is good for the economy if nothing else, is there a conservation concern or lack of access concern due to snow (which is not relevant everywhere). I would love to see opportunities to keep hunting into january. Yes I know I can predator hunt, just not really what Im talking about atm.

[Cyrus]

Whitetail I'd be okay with but give the mules a break imo...they've been chased since the beginning of Sept until yesterday. I think if they made it through they deserve to live. Obviously poachers continue to kill throughout winter but that's a different topic.

[HappyJack]

It's rare to get more, in all likelihood the regional manager doesn't think it's a good idea.

[604redneck]

Season is more than long enough to harvest a deer. Im hoping they shorten mule deer at the least. White tail is a hardier species but i believe alot of areas are dec 20. Sept 1 - dec 20 is more than long enough..........

[Darksith]

Im glad you guys think "the season is long enough"

Many places in the US have deer seasons well into January. My question was not "what do you think", it was "why" and looking for actual facts not speculation. Bucks, especially small bucks, don't have positive impacts on the species population. Less of them is actually better as there is less competition for food. If a season is spread out, you could actually see less pressure as there is more opportunity for people to plan their hunts accordingly rather than having all of these hunters show up Oct 10 to try and capitalize on the WT antlerless as well as any mulie buck. If you moved the WT anterless to say all of Dec, you may take some pressure away from Oct. There are a lot of reasons why it maybe good to extend seasons, but I was more looking for facts as to why they aren't.

[ACB]

B.C. used to have a muzzle loader season years a go but with the advent of inline muzzle loaders,muzzle loaders except for flintlocks stopped being primitive weapons, so the special season ended. I guess they could have done the same as Alberta and not recognized cross bows as archery equipment and just ruled that inline muzzle loaders weren't muzzle loaders. And oh by the way there already is a extended bow season for mule deer in reg. 8 and the whitetail deer bow season for either sex in reg. 4 & 8 runs from Dec. 1 - Dec. 20., the rifle season ends Nov. 30 or in reg. 3 ends Dec. 10.

[Wild one]

Because winter is a tough and stressful time for wildlife

Added pressure causing ungulates to burn reserves they need to make it through winter is not a good idea in my opinion

Winter can cause abrupt drops in population beyond any other factor I can think of.

[Wild one]

Really with the decline in many populations in B.C. backing off a little more and focusing on things like habitat is more important then gaining opportunity in my opinion

[skibum]

This question keeps getting pulled off track: It is about Whitetail, not mule deer.

White tail can handle the increased pressure. I have not heard any different from the regional biologist in R3. I know he would like guys to learn how to hunt Whitetails effectively.

I have wondered this also, why isn't the whitetail season extended?

I would prefer the bag limit stays the same, but extend the season to provide more opportunity to get out - I would think a Christmas hunt with the kids would be awesome - just to have another purpose to get out and hike around.

Any by opportunity I don't mean muzzle or bow exclusive hunting opportunities.

[guest]

Just MO

if your having a tough time with harvest and our seasons here in BC ....... Check out Sask, Alberta etcetc. Meaning our seasons here are quite liberal compared over all to other places. Longer seasons do not Grow wildlfe, proper management does.

maybe try another sport lol, just joking.

I think were about to take a big hit on Shorter Seasons any way.

[Wild one]

Curly top they go to Alberta it will be an eye opener that it’s not longer seasons needed in B.C. when it comes to deer

Both those provs are a deer hunters dream with superior deer management compared to B.C.. Success rate an quality are both better

[guest]

Curly top they go to Alberta it will be an eye opener that it’s not longer seasons needed in B.C. when it comes to deer

Both those provs are a deer hunters dream with superior deer management compared to B.C.. Success rate an quality are both better

fully aware of that ....... It's our lack of True Management of our Fish, Wildlife and Forests for many years.

While most sit sit on their hands and let it happen.

Longer seasons are Not Needed . Period.

[Wild one]

fully aware of that ....... It's our lack of True Management of our Fish, Wildlife and Forests for many years.

While most sit sit on their hands and let it happen.

Longer seasons are Not Needed . Period.

If BC focused more on proper management vs how many days we can get a season it would go along ways. Many B.C. hunters want to see improvement in success rate or quality when it comes to deer hunting in B.C. but continue to push in the wrong direction to achieve it

I don’t know if our views would match on what should change. But it is clear we agree our present and past management is a fail and longer seasons are not needed

[blacklab]

If you can,t kill a deer in 3 months of open season, maybe we don't have enough deer.

[Gateholio]

My understanding is that the season closes to stop pressuring animals as we set into winter.

Now, it may be no problem to keep hunting whitetails longer but the whitetails often occupy the same areas as mule deer, so you are still pressuring the mule deer.

That's just my thoughts, I could be wrong. :)

[Salty]

The closing dates haven't changed much through the years I'm sure back when it would be a winter thing. Give them a break when the snow starts to really pile up. In much of the states winter sets in later being closer to the equator and all thus their later seasons I'd think too.

[Livewire322]

The current season for ungulates makes it so that there is virtually no opportunity for me to get out. I've haven't hunted deer since 2013 because my grades in university suffered when I took time to hunt for deer.
I know that I'm not the only person (even in my program there are at least 3 others out of 30) in this province that miss out on hunting for ungulates because the season overlaps with the fall semester.
I'd fully support longer seasons on white-tail. Maybe an any white-tail draw for the end of December. A draw would mitigate the pressure on mule deer that Gatehouse and others brought up.

[Darksith]

If you can,t kill a deer in 3 months of open season, maybe we don't have enough deer.

I pass on a lot of deer in a season. If my goal was simply to kill a deer, that wouldn't be a problem. Im not asking questions about length or timing of seasons to give me more chances to kill, but rather to give me more time out in the field. 3 months isn't enough...I know right haha. But hey, it is more of a question seeking facts than opinions.

As for pressure and timing of winter. Do the deer really feel pressure? Sure some do, but wouldn't that same pressure come from predators, chance encounters with other animals, vehicles etc etc? The does really don't push very far from what I have seen, they go just far enough to decide if you are a threat. They don't really see humans as a threat from most of my encounters. It is a reasonable explanation though as our winters can be a lot tougher than some areas due to a lack of quality feed vs our southern neighbors. Maybe I will write a MOE staffer and ask the question.

[tater]

Ungulates tend to yard up in the most viable microtherms to allow optimal energy use during the winter. They need easy access to feed with minimal exposure to extreme elements (e.g. high wind speeds), as well as optimal protection from predation.
Female ungulates will abort (re-absorb) fawns/calves under stress (including being moved from safe yarding habitat during winter months). All of the work of the rut is undone with too much predator pressure (human and four legged).
Comparing the whitetail habitat in BC to the lower conitguous 48 states or the prairie provinces is not apples to apples. Snow load that is elevation/direction dependent, available access to feed, and winter predator populations are all factors that are not as big a concern in Georgia, Alabama, or even Saskatchewan.
If you use many of the lower 48 models for WT management, we would have "earn a buck programs" as promoted by Dr. Valerius Geist and other ungulate specialists, as well as severe point restrictions for antlers.

Want to extend your season? Go shoot a bobcat, a cougar, five coyotes and three wolves. If enough folks do that for the next five winters, then you may see an extended season down the road as well as have a fun winter outside.

[bownut]

It's rare to get more, in all likelihood the regional manager doesn't think it's a good idea.

With the present seasons and the steady decline in wildlife, sustainability is always in question.
Fawn recruitment, and the general condition of the herds is recognized. Habitat, Predators, Access along with Harvest play a huge role.
Question to the opportunists:
If Regions record a continual decline in Harvest /Success, and the Efforts continue to rise, what do you think the Bios are thinking?
- Make the seasons longer?
- Rethink the population counts?
- Redefine Sustainable?
- Carry On?

[Dannybuoy]

With the present seasons and the steady decline in wildlife, sustainability is always in question.
Fawn recruitment, and the general condition of the herds is recognized. Habitat, Predators, Access along with Harvest play a huge role.
Question to the opportunists:
If Regions record a continual decline in Harvest /Success, and the Efforts continue to rise, what do you think the Bios are thinking?
- Make the seasons longer?
- Rethink the population counts?
- Redefine Sustainable?
- Carry On?

Given their track record All of the above..... unfortunately

[HappyJack]

With the present seasons and the steady decline in wildlife, sustainability is always in question.
Fawn recruitment, and the general condition of the herds is recognized. Habitat, Predators, Access along with Harvest play a huge role.
Question to the opportunists:
If Regions record a continual decline in Harvest /Success, and the Efforts continue to rise, what do you think the Bios are thinking?
- Make the seasons longer?
- Rethink the population counts?
- Redefine Sustainable?
- Carry On?

Shorten the season, raise the price of tags and give more of the allocation to outfitters?

[boxhitch]

Ungulates tend to yard up in the most viable microtherms to allow optimal energy use during the winter. They need easy access to feed with minimal exposure to extreme elements (e.g. high wind speeds), as well as optimal protection from predation.
Female ungulates will abort (re-absorb) fawns/calves under stress (including being moved from safe yarding habitat during winter months). All of the work of the rut is undone with too much predator pressure (human and four legged).
Comparing the whitetail habitat in BC to the lower conitguous 48 states or the prairie provinces is not apples to apples. Snow load that is elevation/direction dependent, available access to feed, and winter predator populations are all factors that are not as big a concern in Georgia, Alabama, or even Saskatchewan.
.Nailed it, imho. Winter range varies in size and quality year by year depending on conditions. Setting a safe date to help limit the disturbance sounds like a bmp to me.
Also, Many BC hunting and angling regs are carefully thought out with enforcement in mind.

[Ryo]

Several states have started instituting "shed hunting closures" to minimize stress on deer wintering grounds. Hunting whitetail through mule deer wintering grounds has got to be equally stressful, if not more. It's the one time of year that they really cross-over heavily. More accidentally shot mule deer, increased poaching (a shot in the woods at a mule deer is far less conspicuous when shots are also being fired at whitetail), are two other potential (and real) drawbacks aside from stress.

Call me a fear monger, but I'd also be very concerned about whitetail deer bait piles on mule deer wintering grounds with the knowledge that CWD is passed through saliva. Heck, I'm already concerned about it during the current open season.


Other places have more spread out seasons, yes. August to January in some cases. Don't confuse that for longer seasons or increased opportunity.

[gunpower]

Why not go back to the way it was years ago , Sept. 10 to Nov. 20 , with a two day doe season in Oct.
This was for white tails only.

[Bugle M In]

Leave the Mule Deer Season alone, depending on the Region, I think the season is long enough.
(what's been missing is the higher snow levels to push them all down like in in the good ol' days).

If some don't want whitetails to spawn all over the place in some Regions, then make the season longer.
Or, maybe leave "all the wildlife alone during the winter months", and just open white tails way earlier in the
season??? just a thought if you want to reduce them, as hunters will want to "get out there" and this would be
the "only species" available to hunt at that time....

BUT, if you really feel the need to get out there right now, or haven't "filled your boots"....
There's lots of WOLVES that need to "taken out", and with the winter snow, these dogs should be
"closer to towns" right now...lower elevations, looking for....... "your deer":p

[bownut]

My understanding is that the season closes to stop pressuring animals as we set into winter.

Now, it may be no problem to keep hunting whitetails longer but the whitetails often occupy the same areas as mule deer, so you are still pressuring the mule deer.

That's just my thoughts, I could be wrong. :)


Very good point, so many people feel that the hunting pressure alone has little effect.

[bownut]

Ungulates tend to yard up in the most viable microtherms to allow optimal energy use during the winter. They need easy access to feed with minimal exposure to extreme elements (e.g. high wind speeds), as well as optimal protection from predation.
Female ungulates will abort (re-absorb) fawns/calves under stress (including being moved from safe yarding habitat during winter months). All of the work of the rut is undone with too much predator pressure (human and four legged).
Comparing the whitetail habitat in BC to the lower conitguous 48 states or the prairie provinces is not apples to apples. Snow load that is elevation/direction dependent, available access to feed, and winter predator populations are all factors that are not as big a concern in Georgia, Alabama, or even Saskatchewan.
If you use many of the lower 48 models for WT management, we would have "earn a buck programs" as promoted by Dr. Valerius Geist and other ungulate specialists, as well as severe point restrictions for antlers.

Want to extend your season? Go shoot a bobcat, a cougar, five coyotes and three wolves. If enough folks do that for the next five winters, then you may see an extended season down the road as well as have a fun winter outside.

Right on the money Tater, so many individuals don't get it yet. Education has become such a little used tool.

I was ask on a past thread how I felt about getting rid of the Late Mule Deer Bow Season, being a avid bowhunter I think it was directed at me to stir up something.
My reply was "If it would work to conserving them then we should shit can the whole hunt."
There's so much Take and very little Give lately.

[bownut]

Shorten the season, raise the price of tags and give more of the allocation to outfitters?

Ya thats the answer...... Not.
But if we keep it up LEH could be crammed down everyone throat, and then what?

[325]

Some states have long seasons with liberal bag limits on deer, but unlike BC, nearly all the land is private, and much off limits to hunters, so there are refugia for ungulates.

[Salty]

With the present seasons and the steady decline in wildlife, sustainability is always in question.

Steady decline in wildlife? I'm not seeing that. Since the late 90s killer winters and resulting big drop in deer populations there's been a lot of growth, some dips, some flat years but over all there's a hell of a lot more deer than there was about 18 years ago. There's problems with certain animals in areas of the province for sure but I don't think we're seeing a steady decline in wildlife other than on the internet.

[bownut]

Steady decline in wildlife? I'm not seeing that. Since the late 90s killer winters and resulting big drop in deer populations there's been a lot of growth, some dips, some flat years but over all there's a hell of a lot more deer than there was about 18 years ago. There's problems with certain animals in areas of the province for sure but I don't think we're seeing a steady decline in wildlife other than on the internet.

Ok then, I wonder what they success rate vs number of days hunting? Asking around and you get the same story, "It Sucks!" But hey keep on believing it's all good>

[limit time]

If you can,t kill a deer in 3 months of open season, maybe we don't have enough deer.
Or you suck at hunting...

[Bugle M In]

Well, hunter success rate to days hunted isn't always the "best question".
If that's the case, then I don't help when filling out those harvest sheets.
Meaning, I may hunt x amount of days for Mulies, but then I write down success as "0".
Which is true...and it's not....
Yes, I hunted x amount of days...that's true...
But, I may have had "success"... IF ....I had pulled the pin...
Meaning, I had "opportunities" to harvest a "legal mule deer" (in my case, 4pt)....
But, I chose to "Pass up".
That's where the "hunter days to success ratio" is not telling the full story....IMO.

[HarryToolips]

Because winter is a tough and stressful time for wildlife

Added pressure causing ungulates to burn reserves they need to make it through winter is not a good idea in my opinion

Winter can cause abrupt drops in population beyond any other factor I can think of.
This I do agree with...and sure, hunting whitetails even later sounds like a good idea, but both WT and MD are for the most part in winter range in January, and hunting whitetails then will push MD more as well, burning more of their fat reserves as well..

[HarryToolips]

Ok then, I wonder what they success rate vs number of days hunting? Asking around and you get the same story, "It Sucks!" But hey keep on believing it's all good>
So your saying the hunter days have increased per kill?? Not what I believe I saw, do you mind posting this data??

[Whonnock Boy]

Ever since I don't know how long ago, seasons have been getting shorter and shorter, and it has never stopped the continued decrease in wildlife population and viable habitat. Does anyone else see the problem here? Does anyone see that the reduction of seasons and length has not stopped the trend? I honestly do not know why this is even being discussed.

[Bugle M In]

Ever since I don't know how long ago, seasons have been getting shorter and shorter, and it has never stopped the continued decrease in wildlife population and viable habitat. Does anyone else see the problem here? Does anyone see that the reduction of seasons and length has not stopped the trend? I honestly do not know why this is even being discussed.

I agree with you...100%.
Hunting seasons have decreased.
LEH all over the place now.
Bag Limits lowered much of the time.
Yet, like you say....wildlife is not coming back.
Also agree with the "amount of discussion" to "reduce hunting chances even further", just boggles my mind.??!!

Maybe I am missing something here?...but...is it an "Age" issue that keeps driving these type of threads???

I am 50, hunted with my dad when I was like 3 years old...really!
I have seen the seasons be reduced, or eliminated, or road closures, or LEH implementation...so on and so forth.
To me at the time (when I was young)...."I thought it sucked" originally.
Then I thought...."well maybe with all of this, hunting will once again be like the old days...game everywhere",
all I have to do differently, is just put in more effort "physically", on foot more, and go further back etc.

But, that was all back when I was 20.......
Now, being 50.....30 years later....guess what???
Still no more game, and if anything.....LESS!!
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????

Now I am starting to get the feeling that many.. (not all)... that feel that more "restrictions and closures are needed",
is coming from the younger generation...who also hear the stories of the "good old days".. like Gang Ranch,
or the Bull River for elk,....will come back...if only we limit hunter opportunity, which will then equate to
"less hunter success", which will equate to "more game"........NOT!!

The only difference now from back then, is the lack of snow (warm seasons), which drove the game down, and more together (not as dispersed), and would lead to hunters seeing more game, in the right areas at the right time.
Now the game doesn't migrate as soon, or less so, cause of the lack of high snow levels.

Other then that, hunters have way less opportunity then back then.
Yes, one could say that maybe there was "too much opportunity Back Then"....
But for all these years, we all continue to see that certain species, in certain areas, are way down.

The only other real change.. wolves....they are everywhere now....everywhere, as well as the rest of Preds.

I just want to say to the younger generation.....
Be careful "what you ask for"....
Right now hunting is "not so socially accepted" anymore, and with the "cyber world", it is getting a lot easier for the
Anti's to be organized.....and way more efficient.
If you had asked anybody in the 70's or 80's if "smoking would be completely banned from ferries or airports", and to
not even have "designated smoking areas"....people would have said "your out of your mind"....well?????

The issue I see has to do with "expansion of human development", and the lack of "habitat restoration" and even
"habitat protection", which is the main culprit in the problem we are all seeing.

I don't want to come across as a "know it all"....I just want to inform the younger folks here that I have seen the
"lack of success" even with all the restrictions that have been dumped on us over the years.
Don't believe me.....look at hunting regs from the late 60's or early 70's and compare it to now.
Maybe there has also been a change in "how some user groups" are achieving success now???
Maybe more harvesting by some is way higher then back then???
But, we have "no data" on that!!.....so I can't answer that...only speculate and question that issue.

More effort is needed in 2 areas of this hunting community....
To protect "Hunting" as a way of life, and ensure it's future...to not be banned one day altogether.
The other is to get money sunk back into those forests out there, and to get all people responsible for it's demise to
"buck up".

For you young folks.....that is my advice, and it only comes from the fact that I have seen all these changes not make one bit of difference in the end....yet, I keep waiting, and keep getting "shoved into smaller and smaller" arenas to hunt, to the point where we are stumbling into each other.
Don't go and throw "more bad into the pot"...you will only being shooting yourself in the foot.
Push for the government to go in a different direction....get them to develop funding and implementation for restoring the habitat.
Ensure that Hunting will remain a "Right" for those who wish to lead that lifestyle....don't let it become "extinct" from
a way of life for yourselves.

I only say it...because I care, and want to see future generations have "what I never got to experience".

[boxhitch]

BMI your message is no different than the one from the BCWF town hall meetings , good to hear but tough to convey

[HarryToolips]

I agree with everything you say BMI, well said....as much as I don't think liberal hunting regs are for the most part, the cause of our current 'reported' decreases in ungulate populations, as loss of quality habitat and increases in predator numbers are the primary causes, I believe a big reason why our hunting seasons have to be so much more restrictive now vs. then is we have so much more FSR access in the bush now, so they have to be...and of course, preds such as wolves are using these roads as highways..

[Bugle M In]

Yup, The rise in Preds, and the years of logging and roads upon roads have definitely been, in my opinion,
a significant change over the years....for sure, and the "pine beetle".
Those are the main differences from back then.
Also have to include all the urbanization, in many parts of BC as well.
So...how is shortening the seasons etc going to make it all better?
Seasons will get shorter and shorter, and yet urban sprawl and roads will continue to increase.
Deal with those issues 1st.

[bownut]

Ever since I don't know how long ago, seasons have been getting shorter and shorter, and it has never stopped the continued decrease in wildlife population and viable habitat. Does anyone else see the problem here? Does anyone see that the reduction of seasons and length has not stopped the trend? I honestly do not know why this is even being discussed.
Not sure what area you hunt but region 8 hasn't shorten much in a while.

Mule Deer Bucks 2009 Oct 1 - Oct 20..... 2010 Oct 1- Oct 31
White Deer Buck 2009 Sept 10- Nov 24...2010 Sept 10- Nov 30
Youth Season Bucks 2009 Sept 1- Sept 9... 2010 added a late White tail Buck/ Doe Season Nov 1- Nov 30
Open a new White tail GOS Does Oct 10- Oct 31 in 2010
Lengthen the late white tail Bow Season to Dec 20 after all this.

Funny thing is I ran the harvest data vs days spent hunting for region 8-08 to 8-15 which covers most of the Okanagan area.
Very interesting results. With all the increases in 2009 -2010 the harvest should have gone up. 2011-2013 not any better.
Spoke with some meat cutters and they said the average weight has dropped also. Doe season is what keep the numbers up
maybe?