And now we know............

[Jagermeister]

why the salmon and steelhead stocks are in decline. Probably the demise of other species of fish in our coastal waters as well.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/b-c-fish-processors-spewing-potentially-dangerous-bloodwater-into-key-salmon-migration-corridor-1.3696793

[Spy]

Unbelievable Im disgusted in this industry it has to go, NOW!

[Fred1]

Ya... wow....

[Spy]

It is in the best interests of fish farms to destroy wild salmon, I believe they want them gone and do not care about our wild salmon stocks... Its time to kick them out of Canada DFO the government needs to get this done, enough is enough....

[Ozone]

Lol, sheeple.

[Jagermeister]

Some of you have the opportunity to attend Weaver's townhall meeting on Thursday. This would be a good time to bring this up.



All (http://www.andrewweavermla.ca/events/?date1=all)
Upcoming
2016 (http://www.andrewweavermla.ca/events/?date1=2016)
2017 (http://www.andrewweavermla.ca/events/?date1=2017)






THU
30
NOV
2017


MLA Town Hall (http://www.andrewweavermla.ca/events/?event_id1=8)
7:00pm to 8:30pmOak Bay Recreation Centre 1975 Bee St, Victoria, BC V8R 5E6Everyone is welcome to attend our MLA Town Hall in the Sports View Lounge at Oak Bay Recreation Centre on Thursday, November 30, 2017. Doors open at 6:30pm and the event will run from 7:00pm to 8:30pm. Andrew Weaver, MLA for Oak Bay-Gordon Head and Leader of the BC Green Party will provide an update on his work in the constituency and in the legislature, followed by an open Q&A session. As always, it is free to attend! Andrew welcomes your questions and comments. Please join us for an informative evening.





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[finaddict]

Brown's Bay has broken no laws, their effluent pipe has been there for decades and the witch hunt that everyone is on needs to be directed to DFO. IF DFO had thought about or cared about BC wild salmon stocks this would have been changed decades ago. If you want to fire up the torches and grab the pitchforks, start heading to Ottawa and get to the kingpin, not some small company that is just doing what they are legally allowed to do.

[tomahawk]

The gov't' caves to the farms everytime, allowing so many destructive side affects of the farms to harm wild stocks. This is just one more. The farm industry claims they add 1.5 Billion to the BC economy and the Gov't gets a big chunk of revenue from them being there. $$$$ trumps wild salmon everytime with our Gov't. Disgusting!!

[Fred1]

Its not our companies that are at fault. Its our standards and laws that are the problem. The standards are always set low. That helps initiate business and growth. Industries play along and say things like "we are within compliance and practice at a higher standard than is required"... bla bla bla Sh1t even the best of low standards are still low standards...
shes just as ugly at 2am as she was at 10pm... In the end, just like our pride, the environment takes the hit...

[Pemby_mess]

The solution that has been immediately suggested, is to put additional terms on their occupancy permits. This misses the entire point.

This one incident is particularly egregious - but changing the permit conditions to address it, does nothing to address the very serious externalities of the industry as a whole.

The only solution? Get them out our inland water ways. Period. These farms can't continue to be permitted having any more direct, unmitigated contact with migrating salmon.

we paid for an atrociously expensive inquiry in the collapse of wild salmon. Its time we used the findings from that process.

[Spy]

The solution that has been immediately suggested, is to put additional terms on their occupancy permits. This misses the entire point.

This one incident is particularly egregious - but changing the permit conditions to address it, does nothing to address the very serious externalities of the industry as a whole.

The only solution? Get them out our inland water ways. Period. These farms can't continue to be permitted having any more direct, unmitigated contact with migrating salmon.

we paid for an atrociously expensive inquiry in the collapse of wild salmon. Its time we used the findings from that process.

X 1000 and it needs too happen ASAP

[Ozone]

Here's the 75 recommendations
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/cohen/report-rapport-eng.htm

[jlirot]

Curious to me that the folks who hate government - now want more government. But, I digress.

Firstly - I agree this is unacceptable and there needs to reasonable rules.

Secondly - I'm kind of surprised that they simply dump the effluent. I would think it would have some value as fertilizer or something. If they could find a way to use it (like fertilizer) it seems it would be a nice PR plug.

[Ozone]

And then there's this from Cohen Commission Final Report:

“I am also satisfied that marine conditions in both the Strait of Georgia and Queen Charlotte Sound in 2007 were likely to be the primary factors responsible for the poor returns in 2009. Abnormally high freshwater discharge, warmer-than-usual sea surface temperatures, strong winds, and lower-than-normal salinity may have resulted in abnormally low phytoplankton and nitrate concentrations that could have led to poor zooplankton (food for sockeye) production.” (Volume 3, page 59)

“…data presented during this Inquiry did not show that salmon farms were having a significant negative impact on Fraser River sockeye…” (Volume 3, page 24).

[finaddict]

Curious to me that the folks who hate government - now want more government. But, I digress.

Firstly - I agree this is unacceptable and there needs to reasonable rules.

Secondly - I'm kind of surprised that they simply dump the effluent. I would think it would have some value as fertilizer or something. If they could find a way to use it (like fertilizer) it seems it would be a nice PR plug.Its value is as blood meal but the volumes are just not there. Rendering companies will render blood into meal but they need a couple of tanker loads a day to make it worth the costs associated with a shipment from mid island to Vancouver. Brown's Bay just does not have that kind of volume.

[Jagermeister]

Its value is as blood meal but the volumes are just not there. Rendering companies will render blood into meal but they need a couple of tanker loads a day to make it worth the costs associated with a shipment from mid island to Vancouver. Brown's Bay just does not have that kind of volume.Just because the fish processors' volume does not match that of an abattoir is no excuse for not collecting and sending to fertilizer process. There is no excuse for exemption.
It's like the little old ladies that take their small dogs to a park and refuse to "scoop the poop". "It's such a small thing that is no problem." they lament. Of course others are of the same ilk and do the same and decry the act of others when the landmines abound and the turd is stuck to their shoe.
There is no excuse for dumping "tainted" offal into the chuck and we should be intolerant of that practice.

[Surrey Boy]

Curious to me that the folks who hate government - now want more government. But, I digress.

Very good point.

We should be careful of what we wish for.

[Pemby_mess]

Curious to me that the folks who hate government - now want more government. But, I digress.

Firstly - I agree this is unacceptable and there needs to reasonable rules.

Secondly - I'm kind of surprised that they simply dump the effluent. I would think it would have some value as fertilizer or something. If they could find a way to use it (like fertilizer) it seems it would be a nice PR plug.

I'm pretty sure there is a significant composting industry that survives exclusively off the fish farm by-products as inputs.

However, when these companies are poorly regulated and/or poorly watched, they think they can, and will try to get away with murder if its an any cheaper solution to any particular problem. The only reason this incident comes to light at all, is the random curiosity of an unpaid activist, being in the right place, at the right time.

[dougan]

What a load of horse crap this is . They are pumping blood into the blender of the seymore narrows and people freak!!!!!! They pump human shit in the ocean in Victoria what's worse???? People are idiots anything to bitch about!!!

[Pemby_mess]

And then there's this from Cohen Commission Final Report:

“I am also satisfied that marine conditions in both the Strait of Georgia and Queen Charlotte Sound in 2007 were likely to be the primary factors responsible for the poor returns in 2009. Abnormally high freshwater discharge, warmer-than-usual sea surface temperatures, strong winds, and lower-than-normal salinity may have resulted in abnormally low phytoplankton and nitrate concentrations that could have led to poor zooplankton (food for sockeye) production.” (Volume 3, page 59)

“…data presented during this Inquiry did not show that salmon farms were having a significant negative impact on Fraser River sockeye…” (Volume 3, page 24).

i think if that's the take away from the commission you managed to get, we've found some kind of vested interest in you. Seriously, thats the only reason I can come up with, that explains your willingness to ignore the directives outlined in the report.

The commission was not really much of a blame finding exercise anyway, but a solution focused one. Solutions that would allow the DFO to work inside a changing environment, one with dynamic threats to the salmon that include a large number of unknowns.

The solutions presented in the recommendations of the time, certainly do encapsulate the problems regarding fish farms that have come to light since. At the time, there was scant evidence regarding the nature of the bio toxins being produced by these floating waste heaps. The Canadian federal labs were refusing to test for viruses for some still unexplained reason, and the primary correlation between migrating salmon and these farms was suspected to be due to sea-lice, not picene reo-virus, and ISA, as we now know it is.

The only controversy that currently exists there, is generated via fairly consistent industry propaganda. It was the most likely explanation behind the collapse of Scandinavia's wild fishery, and now they're here on our coast.

I'm not saying, by any means, that fish farms represent the only aspect of mismanagement as it relates to our salmon stocks - nor necessarily even the primary culprit behind their precipitous decline - just that it'll certainly be the final nail in the resource's coffin, should farms be allowed to continue operating as they are. I really can't see any credible excuse for why they can't be moved onto land and develop world class aquaculture best practices in the process. As it is, the externalities to public and outside private interests, far outweigh the benefits to the same.

[finaddict]

Just because the fish processors' volume does not match that of an abattoir is no excuse for not collecting and sending to fertilizer process. There is no excuse for exemption.
It's like the little old l
There is no excuse for dumping "tainted" offal into the chuck and we should be intolerant of that practice.Sounds like a great idea. I would assume that the intent is to have the processor pay for the disposal. A Renderer will not pick up a product and process it if it is not economically viable so the processor would have to pay for pick up, just like any other disposal service. Thus adding further to the costs of processing, which would be passed forward to the retailer and ultimately the consumer, thus adding to the price of farmed atlantic mush. ;)

[Pemby_mess]

What a load of horse crap this is . They are pumping blood into the blender of the seymore narrows and people freak!!!!!! They pump human shit in the ocean in Victoria what's worse???? People are idiots anything to bitch about!!!

So because we doing something else that damages the local environment, we shouldn't care about other examples of environmental degradation that have widespread systemic consequences; to both the environment and our national economy?

for one thing, the per capita socio-economic benefits that come from dumping the sewage of BC's second largest city, probably far outweigh the local damage it does. It's not an excuse, but it certainly remains a significant factor in decisions about where to focus management resources.

[Pemby_mess]

Sounds like a great idea. I would assume that the intent is to have the processor pay for the disposal. A Renderer will not pick up a product and process it if it is not economically viable so the processor would have to pay for pick up, just like any other disposal service. Thus adding further to the costs of processing, which would be passed forward to the retailer and ultimately the consumer, thus adding to the price of farmed atlantic mush. ;)

Which is really how it should be. Wild salmon would then be subject to upward price pressure, making it more important economically. Otherwise, you're really asking local communities to pay for the private profits of the processors.

[Ubertuber]

Fish farms - a disgusting industry making disgusting fish.

[Ozone]

However, when these companies are poorly regulated and/or poorly watched,

But they are highly regulated and watched


they think they can, and will try to get away with murder if its an any cheaper solution to any particular problem.

I know my company is very open.


The only reason this incident comes to light at all, is the random curiosity of an unpaid activist, being in the right place, at the right time.

Really, unpaid, lol. Did you know you can take courses I believe its at UBC on how to become a professional activist. I have know this person since he was about 4 or 5 and was probably the first diver he ever saw when I came over from my farm and reattached the family's house dock that had broken away from its mooring. I then brought some things from the bottom to the surface for the kids to see. Trust me, he is not
unpaid.

Oh and did you ask yourself about weather or not the blood water is treated or not? Because it is. Our company's blood water treatment plant cost $6million.

Remember boring news doesn't sell.

[Pemby_mess]

Now that is interesting! Are you saying you own/are employed by Brown's bay processors? Because if the article is accurate, it's saying your 6 million dollar facility isn't working. The test samples are showing positive for the PRV, and ISA viruses being discharged into the water.

Maybe, instead of being defensive, you can use your credible insight to help to quell our fears about this being one of the primary factors behind the collapse in salmon South of the Johnstone straight.

[Ozone]

No, Im not saying I work for Browns Bay. I work for Marine Harvest Canada. I wouldn't believe any report about samples these people had done. What lab was it done in?

Look at what these same types of groups say about hunting vs what you may know yourself.

Heres some info if you don't mind reading. I would post it here, but its quite long and has a interactive thing on it. https://www.biv.com/article/2017/5/whats-destabilizing-bcs-wild-salmon-stocks/

I don't want to come off as defensive, but so many on here have no clue as to what there talking about. I have been in this industry for over 30 years so when a guy from no were BC and wouldn't now the ocean if he was drinking it claims how bad we are, I may have a problem with it.

[dougan]

So because we doing something else that damages the local environment, we shouldn't care about other examples of environmental degradation that have widespread systemic consequences; to both the environment and our national economy?

for one thing, the per capita socio-economic benefits that come from dumping the sewage of BC's second largest city, probably far outweigh the local damage it does. It's not an excuse, but it certainly remains a significant factor in decisions about where to focus management resources.
Nope not saying that at all (fish blood in the ocean hardly seems like an environmental issue and as far as the tests go I'd call bullshit on it . Now pumping human waste in The ocean does seem like an environmental issue " unless you like corn fed crabs" but you don't hear people shaking about that embarrassment going on in beautiful Victoria . This is just another emotion based load of crap fueled by hippies and native whining yet again!

[Pemby_mess]

No, Im not saying I work for Browns Bay. I work for Marine Harvest Canada. I wouldn't believe any report about samples these people had done. What lab was it done in?

Look at what these same types of groups say about hunting vs what you may know yourself.

Heres some info if you don't mind reading. I would post it here, but its quite long and has a interactive thing on it. https://www.biv.com/article/2017/5/whats-destabilizing-bcs-wild-salmon-stocks/

I don't want to come off as defensive, but so many on here have no clue as to what there talking about. I have been in this industry for over 30 years so when a guy from no were BC and wouldn't now the ocean if he was drinking it claims how bad we are, I may have a problem with it.

That was a well dome article, I enjoyed it. However, it does conspicuously fail to substantively address any of the observations we are seeing in Salmon runs South of Fish farm concentrations. Observations that, while not unique to BC, are consistent with other locations with fish farms, and absent from those without.

I'm not saying that all of the issues the article mentions aren't in fact issues for our local salmon. Just that if its primary thesis is correct, than those issues should be equally as damaging to salmon runs outside the influence of fish farm operations, and they're objectively not.

Its much too coincidental to me, that our experience is following much the same patterns as other disparate geographic locations that too have incorporated open net salmon farming into their coastal waters. Let's look at some actual research coming out of the only place where this issue is researched comprehensively:

http://www.vitenskapsradet.no/Portals/vitenskapsradet/Pdf/Status%20of%20wild%20Atlantic%20salmon%20in%20Norw ay%202017.pdf

The results there, are quite damning; and that is before we consider the Norwegian coastline being void of choke points such as those existent on the migratory routes of BC's salmon. Nor, does it reflect in the same way, the dangers that a similar but very different non-native salmon species will necessarily represent here; both in terms of a disease vector and as a virulent, alien competitor in cases of accidental release.

WRT;"some guy from 'nowhere bc'":

if it matters for me to have an opinion on this; i grew up sailing up and down the BC coast with my grandparents, owned my first coastal cruiser/fishing boat before my first car, have worked and played in many of our fjords, spent time in off-grid coastal cabins where we ate from essentially the bay outside the window and have had family members that lived for decades on boats, have made income from taking tourists sport fishing, etc. I now live in "nowhere bc", on what was formerly the largest salmon run in the world, and at least half my neighbours have a traditional dip net fishery honouring their ancestors that were nourished nearly exclusively by salmon for at least 10 millennia.

So if you're trying to insinuate that I don't have a stake, while you do; i'd beg to differ.

[Fisher-Dude]

Alexandra won't get many people to click the donate button if she can't use shock to sell her crusade.

If there's one thing that will open bedwetters' wallets, it's the sight of blood.

Where does the blood go from the millions of fish chewed apart by sea lions every year?

[Spy]

Alexandra won't get many people to click the donate button if she can't use shock to sell her crusade.

If there's one thing that will open bedwetters' wallets, it's the sight of blood.

Where does the blood go from the millions of fish chewed apart by sea lions every year?
Once again you are missing the bigger picture????

[Chopper]

The processors its an easy fix ... boil the run off then filter it. The problem still will ly with the actual farms. They need to go on land, boil and filter the run off.

To exspensive ? To bad ...

[Pemby_mess]

The processors its an easy fix ... boil the run off then filter it. The problem still will ly with the actual farms. They need to go on land, boil and filter the run off.

To exspensive ? To bad ...

boiling/filtering = energy= Prohibitively expensive

Thats been my point from the beginning; when you account for all the externalities the fish farms produce, they can't come close, economically, to a sustainably managed wild fishery. They'd have to be charging a premium over wild caught at that point, and from there would likely fade into oblivion. The quality sucks. It's completely outside their business model of undercutting the market for salmon. Our politicians have brought them in under terms that represent a massive conflict to Bc's interests, both economic and social.

im not saying farmed vs wild are necessarily exclusive of each other. Just that the terms in which the farms operate now, are ridiculous. They need to be brought to heel, and new best practices formulated based on the Norwegian experience.

[Pemby_mess]

Alexandra won't get many people to click the donate button if she can't use shock to sell her crusade.

If there's one thing that will open bedwetters' wallets, it's the sight of blood.

Where does the blood go from the millions of fish chewed apart by sea lions every year?

nevermind Alexandra. You exhaustively state that you want to have wildlife managed with science. Read the study I posted. Read the Cohen report. That's the science.

The sea lions ripping up wild salmon, isn't spreading ISA, and PRV. That's the primary concern of you've been paying attention. That's of course true, until the wild stocks completely flatline, and they start ripping open the nets holding the virus riddled Atlantics. If that isn't already happening.

[Pemby_mess]

Sounds like a great idea. I would assume that the intent is to have the processor pay for the disposal. A Renderer will not pick up a product and process it if it is not economically viable so the processor would have to pay for pick up, just like any other disposal service. Thus adding further to the costs of processing, which would be passed forward to the retailer and ultimately the consumer, thus adding to the price of farmed atlantic mush. ;)

this got me thinking:

in in a land based model, they could conceibly create impoundments to contain the waste. Like tailings. But then again, in a land based, closed system, you'd probably not have an issue with infectious waste in the first place.