Provincial mule deer bag limit changes for 2018 season

[Iron-Head]

Heard through reputable sources the provincial mule deer bag limit will be decreased to 1 MD buck province wide starting fall 2018. The only MUs not affected under this new regulation will be MU 1 and MU 2. I guess hunter recruitment has seen a significant push forward with the initiation licence, with certain areas receiving more hunting pressure then anticipated. Will be interesting to see the outcome of this decision.

Iron

[Weatherby Fan]

Heard through reputable sources the provincial mule deer bag limit will be decreased to 1 MD buck province wide starting fall 2018. The only MUs not affected under this new regulation will be MU 1 and MU 2. I guess hunter recruitment has seen a significant push forward with the initiation licence, with certain areas receiving more hunting pressure then anticipated. Will be interesting to see the outcome of this decision.

Iron

I heard from a reputable source several areas will be on LEH only for Mule Deer bucks ! No general season !

[TexasWalker]

I hope region 3 goes on LEH for mule deer.

[todbartell]

I hope region 3 goes on LEH for mule deer.

explain why?

[mike-juliet]

Subscribed

[Wild one]

1 mule deer a year prov bag limit I am all for

[TexasWalker]

explain why?

Because I live in Kamloops and the amount of people in the bush during October is insane.
Also, I'm an asshole.

[bloody bellies]

get rid of any buck in October, it's a slaughter fest, its a joke watching spikes and 2 points getting killed everywhere,

[wos]

I agree we need to scrap the 4 point thing and make it 5 or better.

[RyoTHC]

4 point or more is just fine. Any buck season for MD iis a joke though, you can almost pet these young bucks In some situations.

[charlie_horse]

Let's just get rid of hunting season. I actually really like shooting 2 mulies a year. One usually a fork. But phuck it Texaswalker doesn't like traffic.

[twoSevenO]

get rid of any buck in October, it's a slaughter fest, its a joke watching spikes and 2 points getting killed everywhere,

i'll vote for this, just tell me where.

some areas are dying too quickly to still be supporting an entire month of any buck killing.

[TexasWalker]

I agree we need to scrap the 4 point thing and make it 5 or better.

That's crazy talk.

[scotty30-06]

Even the government knows how frustrating blacktails are....they made and exception for them lol fml

[archerylife]

make october 3 point or better, then the small bucks can survive and you also don't get a bunch of big 3 points running around

[Seeker]

let's do like moose and shoot only 2 pointers. That way we protect the big mature bucks from trophy hunters and they will survive to breed and also the dumb spikers and three pointers can have a fighting chance. I hear that this will certainly save the downward trend in overall population numbers. Reputable source is where I got that.:-P

I have no problem with restricting Mule deer to one deer, just cause I like them. Based on what I know, I feel they are more susceptible to hunters than whitetail bucks, their overall numbers are lower and they are proving to be less resilient as a species than whities. My opinion only. But for those of us in the know, restricting buck harvest based on point restrictions is a total crock of shite and simply social management. Not scientific.

[wos]

That's crazy talk. think about how low the hunting pressure would be. And we could probably keep hunting season open all year.

[Wild one]

There is a reason BC is one of the last places with point restrictions on MD. It is bad for genetics and is poor for trophy quality. Any buck season is best for all hunters especially if it changes to 1 MD a year bag limit

Most of North America restricts the number of MD harvested instead of age class and have a 1 MD a year limit. This creates better trophy quality and higher buck to doe ratio.

The other issue with point restrictions is hunter error or slobs really. 3-32 made the paper because of the amount of bucks shot and left during 4 pt season by idiots who cant count

This also causes hunters to be more conservative about what they harvest because they only get 1 chance. True meat hunters will still take the first legal deer but you will also see more hunters willing to hold out because it is the only MD they can take

restricting the number of bucks taken vs point restrictions lowering the bag limit is way superior form of management for trophy class and herd health

To those who love 4pt season please tell me how this benifits hunters and deer? Explain why this was abandoned across most if not all of North America as a management tool even when trophy management is top goal

[Mulehahn]

Excellent Post Wild one. Make all of regions 3 - 8 any buck but only one a year. Would spread out the pressure, help genetics and allow the hunter to decide on his or her priorities.

[Sirloin]

https://www.ttha.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Weird-Whitetail-770x439_c.jpg


This is all crazy talk! we need to cancel any buck season entirely, same with 4 point season and replace them both with a 2 day long piebald only deer season. We should cancel out most of our hunting opportunities, cause we know its final and we wont ever get them back with the state of our governments. It's hard out there for PETA and other anti-hunters, we should help them out more often. Besides, protecting, building new, and improving habitat is all BS anyway.

[bloody bellies]

HMMM, if I had 1 MD tag, I will NOT be shooting a spiker , I will wait until November and shoot a big 3pt or 4pt or better, and in fact I would probably wait until the 2nd last or last day of hunting until I shot a 3pt, especially when the rut is on, in turn I only have 1 tag so I would definitely go when the rut is on. So it's all about trophy hunting. I would imagine there are quite a few on this site that don't shoot any mulies smaller than a 3pt, So if I'm to understand what you are saying is, if we want to populations of any kind to flourish, kill the young and leave the old, what happens when there are more killers than the young, how many young would be left to grow old? so we are left with old producing young that get killed right away. then eventually the young are gone, then we start killing the old, then what?


let's do like moose and shoot only 2 pointers. That way we protect the big mature bucks from trophy hunters and they will survive to breed and also the dumb spikers and three pointers can have a fighting chance. I hear that this will certainly save the downward trend in overall population numbers. Reputable source is where I got that.:-P

I have no problem with restricting Mule deer to one deer, just cause I like them. Based on what I know, I feel they are more susceptible to hunters than whitetail bucks, their overall numbers are lower and they are proving to be less resilient as a species than whities. My opinion only. But for those of us in the know, restricting buck harvest based on point restrictions is a total crock of shite and simply social management. Not scientific.

[Wild one]

HMMM, if I had 1 MD tag, I will NOT be shooting a spiker , I will wait until November and shoot a big 3pt or 4pt or better, and in fact I would probably wait until the 2nd last or last day of hunting until I shot a 3pt, especially when the rut is on, in turn I only have 1 tag so I would definitely go when the rut is on. So it's all about trophy hunting. I would imagine there are quite a few on this site that don't shoot any mulies smaller than a 3pt, So if I'm to understand what you are saying is, if we want to populations of any kind to flourish, kill the young and leave the old, what happens when there are more killers than the young, how many young would be left to grow old? so we are left with old producing young that get killed right away. then eventually the young are gone, then we start killing the old, then what?


I recomend doing some research into why pt restrictions were abandoned across most of North America. I know the theory about letting the young grow

if BC goes 1 MD a year prov limit you would be surprised how many hunters start being more selective. Go spend sometime outside of BC and see how many hunters hold back when they are only allowed 1 buck a year

[Seeker]

Point restriction is scientifically proven to do NOTHING for increasing populations. We manage mule deer buck harvest in BC on a buck to doe ratio and we do it conservatively, meaning all does will be bred. Beyond that ratio, BUCKS are again scientifically proven to be a redundant part of populations. They simply consume valuable winter forage. Does are what we should be concerned about. Their survival is paramount to population health. It is also suggested that 4 point or better season actually are counterproductive to producing big deer as genetically superior bucks that reach 4 point status earlier in their lives are shot before they gain valuable life experience. Having an any buck season at least preserves and spares a lot of genetically superior bucks.

As for mule deer populations on the whole, they have been in decline in most areas for decades due to quality habitat erosion. With the wildfires we had this year, we will certainly have a boost in numbers on the way. I am OK with a one mule deer provincial limit for mule deer simply because I like them.

[Wild one]

It is true restricting buck harvest for the most part does little for overall population and only increases the buck to doe ratio. It mostly just increases the number of bucks to hunt and more live to maturity

There is doe draws in BC I would like to see gone or tag numbers cut back. This would be better for some populations

[IronNoggin]

... restricting the number of bucks taken vs point restrictions lowering the bag limit is way superior form of management for trophy class and herd health...

Bingo! Between that, and reducing doe draws in areas where their numbers should be better managed, you have a Win Win both for the herd, and those who pursue them.

Of course that makes way too much sense for our current small gee government to understand, let alone act on methinks...

Cheers,
Nog

[Wild one]

Bingo! Between that, and reducing doe draws in areas where their numbers should be better managed, you have a Win Win both for the herd, and those who pursue them.

Of course that makes way too much sense for our current small gee government to understand, let alone act on methinks...

Cheers,
Nog

If only BC and BCs hunters understood how far behind the rest of North America when it comes to deer management alone

[Darksith]

how many people shoot more than 1 mule deer...I reckon it isn't that many. This is a stupid idea that doesn't do anything for conservation. Once its gone, its gone. I usually eat tag soup hunting big bucks, so either way it won't affect me, and poachers will still be poachers so how will this help anything in regards to conservation? Stop everyone from shooting does and you might have a better impact that preventing a very few hunters from shooting 2 mulies that are hundreds of miles apart

[Onesock]

How many deer will the natives be able to shoot per year? Shouldnt let any whitemen hunt then they will be happy!!

[Sirloin]

Things proven NOT to affect mule deer populations in a big way.
- Hunter harvest of bucks

Things proven to affect mule deer populations in a big way
- Quality winter range habitat loss
- Quality summer range habitat loss
- Migration corridor fragmentation
- Road and highway collisions
- Killing does
- Bad buck/doe ratios
- Overwinter survival
- Winter fawn survival
- Predation

Things proven to increase mule deer populations
- Better spring - fall forage quality/availability
- Not killing does
- Highway underpasses
- Prescribed fires
- Forest fires allowed to burn off
- Forest fire frequency
- Good sex/age class ratios

Tell me why again I should be excited about losing hunting opportunities for bucks, which we would likely never, ever get back again? and would likely do very little to actually help mule deer populations?

Lets do it like that states. Gee wouldn't it so awesome to sit at home every year not hunting, collecting points so one day I could win a tag to hunt a mule deer and finally go out and harvest one, at least he will be a big one! there's big ones all over!

There's plenty of other things on the list to work on as a hunting community other than sticking to the only thing we know, seasons and restrictions, to help populations grow.

https://i.imgur.com/t0hS7b8.jpg

[Dannybuoy]

I agree we need to scrap the 4 point thing and make it 5 or better.

LOL Now that's funny !!

[TexasWalker]

how many people shoot more than 1 mule deer...I reckon it isn't that many. This is a stupid idea that doesn't do anything for conservation. Once its gone, its gone. I usually eat tag soup hunting big bucks, so either way it won't affect me, and poachers will still be poachers so how will this help anything in regards to conservation? Stop everyone from shooting does and you might have a better impact that preventing a very few hunters from shooting 2 mulies that are hundreds of miles apart
Most people I know take 2 mule deer every year, it's more common than you think.

In my case I can drive 20 minutes down the road into region 8 for one, then hunt the rest of the year in region 3 for the other.

[Hunter gatherer]

How about just end the MD season at the beginning of the rut, and no more any buck season and all of you quit getting newbies into hunting let's keep it to ourselves

[limit time]

I think whatever the NDP and Miley Cyrus say to do, we should do !

[skibum]

This is about managing hunter concentration / numbers in certain regions, not managing mule deer numbers.

It seems too hard to harmonize mule deer seasons across regions, this is the solution

[Darksith]

Most people I know take 2 mule deer every year, it's more common than you think.

In my case I can drive 20 minutes down the road into region 8 for one, then hunt the rest of the year in region 3 for the other.

20 minutes might be an exaggeration, but I also can drive just over an hour and be in 2 different regions, but saying its more common that I think, in the big picture it probably isn't. Are there 500 hunters that punch 2 mule deer bucks a year? If so thats really not that many, and its not damaging the population. I get ya though, its insane around here come october, especially oct 10 when white tail doe opens up. I stay away most of october, check my cams but thats about it. Its not a conservation issue so why be happy to loose an opportunity?

[Wild one]

20 minutes might be an exaggeration, but I also can drive just over an hour and be in 2 different regions, but saying its more common that I think, in the big picture it probably isn't. Are there 500 hunters that punch 2 mule deer bucks a year? If so thats really not that many, and its not damaging the population. I get ya though, its insane around here come october, especially oct 10 when white tail doe opens up. I stay away most of october, check my cams but thats about it. Its not a conservation issue so why be happy to loose an opportunity?

I would also say it's common lots of guys I know go to one region for a meat buck and hunt others for a big buck

Lots of guys in 5 hunt 3 for a meat buck and wait for snow in 5. I know lots of guys who target 8 for meat buck and 3 for a big buck do to the longer season. Most guys I know in southern BC have 2 mule deer down this season and are targeting bt and wt for trophy this year

[Wild one]

Truth is BC hunters fear change and don't want to give up a thing. Most can't see long term positives and often use the excuse well FN or predators are just going to kill them then

Truth of the matter is the northern 1/3 of BC is a hunters dream but south is a miss managed mess that is a fraction of its potential

[Sirloin]

Truth is BC hunters fear change and don't want to give up a thing. Most can't see long term positives and often use the excuse well FN or predators are just going to kill them then

Truth of the matter is the northern 1/3 of BC is a hunters dream but south is a miss managed mess that is a fraction of its potential


We fear loss of hunting opportunities we will never get back which do nothing to increase deer numbers.

You want better hunting? make more animals.

Losing opportunities for all BC residents is a step backwards.

[HighCountryBC]

There is a reason BC is one of the last places with point restrictions on MD. It is bad for genetics and is poor for trophy quality. Any buck season is best for all hunters especially if it changes to 1 MD a year bag limit

Most of North America restricts the number of MD harvested instead of age class and have a 1 MD a year limit. This creates better trophy quality and higher buck to doe ratio.

The other issue with point restrictions is hunter error or slobs really. 3-32 made the paper because of the amount of bucks shot and left during 4 pt season by idiots who cant count

This also causes hunters to be more conservative about what they harvest because they only get 1 chance. True meat hunters will still take the first legal deer but you will also see more hunters willing to hold out because it is the only MD they can take

restricting the number of bucks taken vs point restrictions lowering the bag limit is way superior form of management for trophy class and herd health

To those who love 4pt season please tell me how this benifits hunters and deer? Explain why this was abandoned across most if not all of North America as a management tool even when trophy management is top goal

There is a pile of good info in this post.

Unfortunately, this thread illustrates just what mule deer and other species are up against when it comes to improving their numbers. It is still mind-boggling just how many hunters want to argue about a tried, tested and FAILED method of increasing ungulate populations. Point restrictions do absolutely nothing to make more wildlife yet that is what 99% of hunters want to move towards.

Habitat + habitat + habitat = more mule deer.
Point restrictions = bang your head against the wall. It's no wonder BC is the laughing stock among wildlife managers across North America on so many issues.

[338win mag]

I got an idea! Why doesn't this phucking government put something into wildlife initiatives instead of taking it away from us. Absolute bs, its easy for them to just screw hunters, cheap too. If they were too deactivate some roads, put an effort into developing wintering area's, vehicle restrictions in these fire area's, and take out some wolves.

If they did some or all these things and mule deer still needed help then I'm all in, until then, I dont support it, the NDP and its anti-hunting supporters will love it. Phuck the liberals for taking resident hunters opportunities and giving them to foreigners.

[todbartell]

You want better hunting? make more animals.


Which starts with better habitat. The fires from this summer will help, the province Need more burns with limited access. Is there stats available for buck to doe ratios for different areas that is suggesting a decline in bucks? or harvest stats specific to the any buck season?

[338win mag]

Dont forget to hold the forest companies accountable, they caused most of the resident hunters woes in the first place, and if a government was deserving of being elected then they should hold them accountable and put some of their profits back into undoing what they have done.

[J_T]

^^ BC doesnt seem to operate with data. Trends and emotion is the decision model.
There is a petition going around in the EK "by hunters" to request the closure of quite a number of
seasons.

[338win mag]

Which starts with better habitat. The fires from this summer will help, the province Need more burns with limited access. Is there stats available for buck to doe ratios for different areas that is suggesting a decline in bucks? or harvest stats specific to the any buck season?

What good is a fire if everyone is allowed to drive around the endless road network and shoot everything?

[338win mag]

^^ BC doesnt seem to operate with data. Trends and emotion is the decision model.
There is a petition going around in the EK "by hunters" to request the closure of quite a number of
seasons.
Real smart.

[Chuck]

When I was a kid, late 1950's early 1960's, mule deer were abundant and practically everywhere in the W. Kootenays (MU 4). Today, mulies are hard to find, even though I know that there are some out there somewhere. Recently there was news about the perilous state that the mountain caribou are in, and intentions to save them. Good luck to them as well as the mule deer! I don't know for certain, or how you feel about it, but I hope that something is done about deactivating old logging roads, clear-cut logging and those annoying snow machines that do these two species no good at all whatsoever. I'm not too happy about the Thompson and Chilcotin river steelhead situation as well. I think I'll have another beer now. Just a gripe that I have to get out of my gut.

[Salty]

No offence to the OP but I'll believe this just like any other 3rd hand heard from a reliable source situation - when I see it.

Having said that if they do it.. meh. No big deal to me and I can't see it overly hampering anyone, we do have 3 species of deer in the province if someone relies on a lot of deer meat. My personal obs in the south interior is mule deer numbers seem to be on the rise in the last 10 years not decline, take that for what it is, but I know there's issues further north. But if this is in fact going to happen and if its because of data the bios have, maybe concerns about potential easier hunting in the near future because of the burns or whatever else I'm good with it, as long as there's science behind it and not politics.

[finngun]

Sirloin...that is like holy cow,,,with mule rack..ausrhire looking animal...maybe hanging with cows whole summer,,hybride type i guess:mrgreen:
did ya check tits too??
Btw just fine animal....whatever it was:mrgreen: congrats...f!!!gun

One more thing...did it die for hearth attac:-) no holes no blood:?::redface:

[finngun]

Im happy with 1 deer per season...really like quality meat,,,like young buck,,spiker just fine,,no need 100lb meat,but if somebody needs it,,i dont care..i'm shooting smaller games too,,quakies ,,grouse ..wabbitt,,etc.i been eating doves too..very good..not from city,,but farm ones..

Well can we say ,,,like if ya need more than 1 deer,,,,first shoot 1 wolf, or 3 yotes ,,then ya get secend deer tag.?anyone like that idea:-)??

[tbonecollector]

Increase the vehicle restrictions in all MU's. Way to much access to sensitive areas with the ORV's. Close the season during rut period. Let the MD do their business in peace. Limit the opportunities when they are most vulnerable.

[Blainer]

When I was a kid, late 1950's early 1960's, mule deer were abundant and practically everywhere in the W. Kootenays (MU 4). Today, mulies are hard to find, even though I know that there are some out there somewhere. Recently there was news about the perilous state that the mountain caribou are in, and intentions to save them. Good luck to them as well as the mule deer! I don't know for certain, or how you feel about it, but I hope that something is done about deactivating old logging roads, clear-cut logging and those annoying snow machines that do these two species no good at all whatsoever. I'm not too happy about the Thompson and Chilcotin river steelhead situation as well. I think I'll have another beer now. Just a gripe that I have to get out of my gut.whitetail are the stronger species. I recall seeing hundreds a day in fields, the mule deer didn't stand a chance in the Kootneys. Whitetail in certain areas need be reduced in my mind.

[Whonnock Boy]

If any deer seasons should be changed, it should be Range Carp to NBL.

Some good comments in here. Point and buck season restrictions will not make more Mule deer. That's it, that's all.

[finngun]

Yep agreed,,,buck is a buck,,,,get rid of point counting,,,,im certan quite many deer is left behind becouse shooting 'wrong' animal..not enaugh points..shame..:oops:

[scoutlt1]

The key is for us is to make sure that there are lots of pubs available that serve quality and copious amounts of food and drink for our mule deer friends.

Ladies night twice a week, no dogs allowed, sports on every tv, decent security, clean rooms available by the hour, and no condom machines in the washrooms. Tons of parking helps too.

Habitat, habitat, habitat....

[markomoose]

I seriously don't believe it will change because they will lose all those useless tags we buy every year!

[bownut]

get rid of any buck in October, it's a slaughter fest, its a joke watching spikes and 2 points getting killed everywhere,
Your on the money, just try and convince the managers to cut back some seasons. It's all about opportunity, opportunity to see F...All.
The counts always see to come up great in the spring in yet no one fills there tags.

[Ohwildwon]

The key is for us is to make sure that there are lots of pubs available that serve quality and copious amounts of food and drink for our mule deer friends.

Ladies night twice a week, no dogs allowed, sports on every tv, decent security, clean rooms available by the hour, and no condom machines in the washrooms. Tons of parking helps too.

Habitat, habitat, habitat....

Duly noted..

Signed,

Ministry of Deer :smile:

[limit time]

^^ BC doesnt seem to operate with data. Trends and emotion is the decision model.
There is a petition going around in the EK "by hunters" to request the closure of quite a number of
seasons.
Most likely guide outfitters.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Your on the money, just try and convince the managers to cut back some seasons. It's all about opportunity, opportunity to see F...All.
The counts always see to come up great in the spring in yet no one fills there tags.


Hey Al
Safe to say that you either attended the presentation on Mule Deer Ecology at UBCO recently or at least watched the video the I posted the link to?

[palmer]

No offence to the OP but I'll believe this just like any other 3rd hand heard from a reliable source situation - when I see it.

Having said that if they do it.. meh. No big deal to me and I can't see it overly hampering anyone, we do have 3 species of deer in the province if someone relies on a lot of deer meat. My personal obs in the south interior is mule deer numbers seem to be on the rise in the last 10 years not decline, take that for what it is, but I know there's issues further north. But if this is in fact going to happen and if its because of data the bios have, maybe concerns about potential easier hunting in the near future because of the burns or whatever else I'm good with it, as long as there's science behind it and not politics.

I too have been told this is under consideration from sources within the ministry. Weather its true or not but I am sure it is on the table for discussion

[280 77]

The Kamloops region has always had liberal seasons and heavy pressure which until recently had very little effect on the mule deer numbers . I have always put in fairly significant time and have been seeing fewer deer but they are still around , just not in the same numbers . What I have noticed everywhere I go around here are wolves which I believe are having a strong detrimental effect.
I am also noticing that cattle are now ranging well into november which i believe has a negative impact on prime mule deer wintering grounds . I strongly believe both of these issues need to be addressed , perhaps before they start changing the regs.

[338win mag]

The Kamloops region has always had liberal seasons and heavy pressure which until recently had very little effect on the mule deer numbers . I have always put in fairly significant time and have been seeing fewer deer but they are still around , just not in the same numbers . What I have noticed everywhere I go around here are wolves which I believe are having a strong detrimental effect.
I am also noticing that cattle are now ranging well into november which i believe has a negative impact on prime mule deer wintering grounds . I strongly believe both of these issues need to be addressed , perhaps before they start changing the regs.
This is true.

[Darksith]

^^ BC doesnt seem to operate with data. Trends and emotion is the decision model.
There is a petition going around in the EK "by hunters" to request the closure of quite a number of
seasons.
probably the white tail doe season. That place turns into a shooting gallery come oct 10

[Darksith]

Your on the money, just try and convince the managers to cut back some seasons. It's all about opportunity, opportunity to see F...All.
The counts always see to come up great in the spring in yet no one fills there tags.
lol no one fills their tags. Then why are the butchers jammed full of deer come oct 1? There are a lot of LML folks who come and light the place up. My favorite road has been discovered and is now hounded by a group of about 20 that come and chase all the deer away. Been happening for about 5 years now, I hardly head up there, although there are still deer in there, just need to get lucky and catch them out in the open.

[stugatz]

Its bad enough hunting opportunities are getting scarce....vehicle restrictions,deactivated logging roads, wolf predation... and now possible LEH for mule deer? WTF everyone sell your guns and bows.... this is BS....I like deer meat....a two point or spike is fine eating.....they are going to curb our hunting opportunities...once on, the restrictions will be there for good

[Cyrus]

So if you get drawn for a doe you have to decide what's more important meat or antlers...

[scotty30-06]

^^^..doe tag would be for last day of the season just to avoid tag soup lol.....and if reg 1, 2 are exempt then sounds like they will be packed with everyone else in bc looking for their second deer.

[scotty30-06]

And yes blacktails are a separate type how many muley hybreds will be taken?

[J_T]

Most likely guide outfitters. Nope. Local resident hunters. I'd heard about it for a while and came across it the other day. Requesting a number of changes.


probably the white tail doe season. That place turns into a shooting gallery come oct 10 WT Doe GOS is one, any MD buck, Youth seasons, spike elk and more. I don't have a copy, so don't have the full list.

Apologies to the OP for the sidetrack.

[boxhitch]

Nope. Local resident hunters. I'd heard about it for a while and came across it the other day. Requesting a number of changes.

WT Doe GOS is one, any MD buck, Youth seasons, spike elk and more. I don't have a copy, so don't have the full list.

Apologies to the OP for the sidetrack.Happens every year about now with the bcwf resolution season , hunters wanting less competition thinking that will make for a better hunt for themselves?
Have heard it many times, fortunately the process weeds out the bad ideas usually


Someone show me the science pointing out a problem with does not getting pregnant or bucks dying of over-stress by having too much tail
and I may side with a change to buck oppoortunities,
Until then this just sounds like another change for the sake of someones feelings being hurt by not cutting a tag.

[HighCountryBC]

Happens every year about now with the bcwf resolution season , hunters wanting less competition thinking that will make for a better hunt for themselves?
Have heard it many times, fortunately the process weeds out the bad ideas usually


Someone show me the science pointing out a problem with does not getting pregnant or bucks dying of over-stress by having too much tail
and I may side with a change to buck oppoortunities,
Until then this just sounds like another change for the sake of someones feelings being hurt by not cutting a tag.

No shortage of that kind of thinking in the Kootenays unfortunately.

[bloody bellies]

I guess I'm confused, when a person I know went hunting in region 5 in October and the group proceeded to obliterate NINE 2 pt, this is a good thing for the mule deer populations? then can proceed to another area and kill 9 more 2pt. So if those 2pt were to live and get bigger and smarter, then produce more 2pt, does this not help the populations, if the group went hunting, and it was a 4pt or better reg, how many deer do you think would have been shot? I would guess maybe 2. I do understand habitat is a key role, but I just can't get around the fact that people think killing the young 2pt deer has no effect on deer populations.



Point restriction is scientifically proven to do NOTHING for increasing populations. We manage mule deer buck harvest in BC on a buck to doe ratio and we do it conservatively, meaning all does will be bred. Beyond that ratio, BUCKS are again scientifically proven to be a redundant part of populations. They simply consume valuable winter forage. Does are what we should be concerned about. Their survival is paramount to population health. It is also suggested that 4 point or better season actually are counterproductive to producing big deer as genetically superior bucks that reach 4 point status earlier in their lives are shot before they gain valuable life experience. Having an any buck season at least preserves and spares a lot of genetically superior bucks.

As for mule deer populations on the whole, they have been in decline in most areas for decades due to quality habitat erosion. With the wildfires we had this year, we will certainly have a boost in numbers on the way. I am OK with a one mule deer provincial limit for mule deer simply because I like them.

[Ryo]

Hey Al
Safe to say that you either attended the presentation on Mule Deer Ecology at UBCO recently or at least watched the video the I posted the link to?

Everyone should sit through the presentation AND the question and answer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNOH627-WqU&feature=youtu.be

[Darksith]

I guess I'm confused, when a person I know went hunting in region 5 in October and the group proceeded to obliterate NINE 2 pt, this is a good thing for the mule deer populations? then can proceed to another area and kill 9 more 2pt. So if those 2pt were to live and get bigger and smarter, then produce more 2pt, does this not help the populations, if the group went hunting, and it was a 4pt or better reg, how many deer do you think would have been shot? I would guess maybe 2. I do understand habitat is a key role, but I just can't get around the fact that people think killing the young 2pt deer has no effect on deer populations.

nice adjectives...obliderate. You mean harvest. How are 2 mulie deer bucks hundreds of miles apart going to equal less deer being bred? No 2 point is breeding first off.

[guest]

Build Habitat habitat habitat, road deactivation, be rid of any buck season, kill more predators bear, coyote, wolf, cats, stop the year round slaughter of any deer by a certain group.

All the above would be a start.

[bloody bellies]

No , I mean obliterate, not harvest, if you had feed in your hand good chance they would come up to you to have looksee, and who said the second deer was 100 miles apart, you can hunt region 5 and 3 right across the river, pretty much the same area, this is the case with many MU'S


nice adjectives...obliderate. You mean harvest. How are 2 mulie deer bucks hundreds of miles apart going to equal less deer being bred? No 2 point is breeding first off.

[bloody bellies]

I can agree with this for sure, kill cats and the deer population goes up 2.4% I believe this was the stat in the video


Build Habitat habitat habitat, road deactivation, be rid of any buck season, kill more predators bear, coyote, wolf, cats, stop the year round slaughter of any deer by a certain group.

All the above would be a start.

[Wild one]

We fear loss of hunting opportunities we will never get back which do nothing to increase deer numbers.

You want better hunting? make more animals.

Losing opportunities for all BC residents is a step backwards.

How is the making more animals projects going? Dead in the water in BC. We have decline but still want to take the same amount

Reality is if I want better deer hunting I go hunt with my buddies in Alberta. BC is lost in magical thought that its special and its deer are special and can take more

What good is opportunity when it's piss poor and quality going down hill?

I can walk around the bush with a gun without a deer season

[russm]

Just shut everything down for everyone that should be good for populations.

[bearvalley]

Build Habitat habitat habitat, road deactivation, be rid of any buck season, kill more predators bear, coyote, wolf, cats, stop the year round slaughter of any deer by a certain group.

All the above would be a start.

Some had better hope that other “certain group” never starts collecting and providing the numbers that their people harvest.

Last I knew, that “certain group” were constitutionally allotted 50% of the annual harvest of wildlife.
Its not going to look real good if data is collected and that “certain groups” harvest falls far short of the percentage given to them.

Its easy to blame habitat loss, predators and other “certain groups” for the decline in wildlife and its really difficult to scrutinize the impact we may be having ourselves....but we had better look at it.

Wildlife management in this province is redundant and the thought process behind it stinks.
BC has managed all wildlife on an opportunity basis....there has been little consideration given to the future.
JMO.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Because I live in Kamloops and the amount of people in the bush during October is insane.
Also, I'm an asshole.

Completely RIGHT on Both Accounts ! :wink: RJ

[Buck]

Build Habitat habitat habitat, road deactivation, be rid of any buck season, kill more predators bear, coyote, wolf, cats, stop the year round slaughter of any deer by a certain group.

All the above would be a start.

Going to be very difficult to recruit new hunters without any buck season.Till i see some serious inventory check i'm not buying this we had tough hunting this year there were lots of dear around but they were knockturnal.

[TexasWalker]

Completely RIGHT on Both Accounts ! :wink: RJ

That's twice you've agreed with me in the last few weeks.
I feel dirty.

[TexasWalker]

Going to be very difficult to recruit new hunters without any buck season.Till i see some serious inventory check i'm not buying this we had tough hunting this year there were lots of dear around but they were knockturnal.

Who gives a shit about new hunters and their instant gratification attitude.
So tired of hearing crap like this.

[guest]

Going to be very difficult to recruit new hunters without any buck season.Till i see some serious inventory check i'm not buying this we had tough hunting this year there were lots of dear around but they were knockturnal.

get real, Hunt the White Tail then, after all, the WT are expanding every where, and are huge contributors to pushing Mulies out. Plus, perhaps your New hunters harvesting the little dummy spike and two point MD has contributed to its huge decrease in population.

Hunting for for new and old isn't about harvest, it's about experiences and enjoying the great outdoors. Three NEW hunters in my family have just all harvested their first critters ........ All White Tail ....... In what was a dominate area for Mule deer in days gone by.

[Wild one]

Keep hearing the WT scape goat you ever think WT are expanding into these areas because the habitat is ideal for them and with MD on the decline makes it easier to fill the void

How come parts of BC held healthy populations of both for many years with no issues. Many places outside BC hold healthy populations of both. But MD are on the decline in BC so and WT are not so it must be the WT.

[bearvalley]

Going to be very difficult to recruit new hunters without any buck season.Till i see some serious inventory check i'm not buying this we had tough hunting this year there were lots of dear around but they were knockturnal.

Nocturnal deer still leave tracks and there aren’t too many deer tracks being made in the snow right compared to past years.

[Buck]

get real, Hunt the White Tail then, after all, the WT are expanding every where, and are huge contributors to pushing Mulies out. Plus, perhaps your New hunters harvesting the little dummy spike and two point MD has contributed to its huge decrease in population.

Hunting for for new and old isn't about harvest, it's about experiences and enjoying the great outdoors. Three NEW hunters in my family have just all harvested their first critters ........ All White Tail ....... In what was a dominate area for Mule deer in days gone by.

Thats all great but where we hunt there are no whitetail and i would not like to see opportunity lost based on i don't see as many deer as i used too.

[bearvalley]

Keep hearing the WT scape goat you ever think WT are expanding into these areas because the habitat is ideal for them and with MD on the decline makes it easier to fill the void

How come parts of BC held healthy populations of both for many years with no issues. Many places outside BC hold healthy populations of both. But MD are on the decline in BC so and WT are not so it must be the WT.
Maybe the whitetail are a little tougher to hunt?

[Buck]

Nocturnal deer still leave tracks and there aren’t too many deer tracks being made in the snow right compared to past years.

Thats my point lots of track in our area we hunted in snow for the whole time.There were wolves around i killed a couple and lots of does and fawns but the Bucks were staying well hidden even though they were around.

[Wild one]

Maybe the whitetail are a little tougher to hunt?

For many BC hunters that only know mule deer yes. I have laughed many times running into hunters who can't find wt in areas with strong populations. For myself I am better at hunting WT and BT then I am at hunting MD lol. So it's all about knowledge and tactics in my opinion

But I have seen an increase in the number of hunters taking the time to learn WT tactics and apply them

WT are not tougher they are different

[Wild one]

Thats my point lots of track in our area we hunted in snow for the whole time.There were wolves around i killed a couple and lots of does and fawns but the Bucks were staying well hidden even though they were around.

You have to hunt where they are hiding instead of where you think they are going

[bearvalley]

Thats my point lots of track in our area we hunted in snow for the whole time.There were wolves around i killed a couple and lots of does and fawns but the Bucks were staying well hidden even though they were around.
I think you put up the wrong word....nonexistent is not nocturnal.

[bearvalley]

For many BC hunters that only know mule deer yes. I have laughed many times running into hunters who can't find wt in areas with strong populations. For myself I am better at hunting WT and BT then I am at hunting MD lol. So it's all about knowledge and tactics in my opinion

But I have seen an increase in the number of hunters taking the time to learn WT tactics and apply them

WT are not tougher they are different

Wild one, how many whitetail are shot bouncing around on roads in a pickup or atv?
Thats seems to be the standard procedure for a lot of mule deer hunters in this area.

[RyoTHC]

Wild one, how many whitetail are shot bouncing around on roads in a pickup or atv?
Thats seems to be the standard procedure for a lot of mule deer hunters in this area.


Poor truck hunters will have to walk! Oh no. WT hunting is too hard!

[Busterbrown]

Poor truck hunters will have to walk! Oh no. WT hunting is too hard!

Comments like this are why MANY hunters do not post stories or photos. Me included. It would be a gong show in the bush if we were all the same. If everyone hiked deep into the timber, it would be awfully crowded. I am OK with the potential regulation change to allow only one mule deer. I shoot multiple mule deer most seasons because I know how to. This might be the push I need to become a better WT hunter !!

[albravo2]

Because I live in Kamloops and the amount of people in the bush during October is insane.
Also, I'm an asshole.

Ok, that almost made me spit my coffee.

[BCJaeger]

[...] So if those 2pt were to live and get bigger and smarter, then produce more 2pt, does this not help the populations, if the group went hunting, and it was a 4pt or better reg, how many deer do you think would have been shot? I would guess maybe 2. I do understand habitat is a key role, but I just can't get around the fact that people think killing the young 2pt deer has no effect on deer populations.
Believe it or not but neither 2pt bucks nor any other/bigger bucks ever get pregnant. So their contribution to the population is limited as long as the buck to doe ratio is healthy meaning all does do mate.

[Salty]

Happens every year about now with the bcwf resolution season , hunters wanting less competition thinking that will make for a better hunt for themselves?
Have heard it many times, fortunately the process weeds out the bad ideas usually


Someone show me the science pointing out a problem with does not getting pregnant or bucks dying of over-stress by having too much tail
and I may side with a change to buck oppoortunities,
Until then this just sounds like another change for the sake of someones feelings being hurt by not cutting a tag.

As usual boxhitch you have the knack for cutting to the chase without embellishing the facts one way or another. The deer season is done in many areas and winding down in others and the annual migration to the keyboard occurs right about now from a bunch of guys that had 5 or 6 epic road hunts to the mule deer grounds and didn't connect. They have a mission to cut back as much hunting opportunity as possible to increase the numbers of deer so that their annual outings will have a 4 point around every second corner for them!

More roads, more road hunters, deer move off of roads. The end. I'll be waiting patiently for data coming from the bios, and I do think we are entering a time where the importance of this is recognised, and politically in vogue. We do need to keep a close eye on Mule deer no question they are or can be vulnerable. But a healthy number of deer in safe pockets they've found is a good thing. If that's not the case then changes should and will ensue with hunting opportunities. How many deer are spotted by casual road hunters is interesting at best but pretty much irrelevant.

[Rotorwash]

The only areas where I have seen less than the usual mule deer numbers is the areas with high wolf and coyote sign, which is seems to be increasing fairly steadily in my observations.

[finngun]

Poor truck hunters will have to walk! Oh no. WT hunting is too hard!

one day when ya getting closer to70years old...you walking long distances is maybe not priorities anymore,,lucily i can walk some km. still no problems..but not much hill climbing or draging deer down long ways....man has to know his limitations...clint eastwood:smile:...

[Bugle M In]

I find myself a little "torn" on this topic/policy.
I have never really understood the reason for taking more game then you need.
I myself eat tag soup a lot.
I find myself with the opportunity to cut my tag/s most years, but often don't.
I am not that found of deer meat, so, I like to look for a "quality sized" buck, which isn't and will not be around
every tree regardless of policies and restrictions.
But then, that is my choice, to hunt in the manner I want, and I don't have the right to say that the next person beside me should do the same.
My only expectation is that everyone show some rationality, and not just go out there and "cut a tag" because you
"have a tag"....IMO.
What scares me right now, is that I may agree with this policy, but at the same time, question the future of
hunting opportunities in the future, especially the way our ministry and any of the previous government parties in
power seem to impose restrictions, but then never lift them down the road....
Worse, is that some of these policies have "backfired"...ie. elk 6 pt restrictions (IMO).
Instead, they just carry on, leave them in place, and then find more ways to restrict.
In the end, the results are worse then before, and all the time, we as hunters, get pushed into tighter and tighter
circles....tripping over ourselves out in the field.
To me there should be some "give and take" here.
If we want to go down to 1 deer only for mule deer....then okay....but, make all the regions open again...
meaning, don't shut down R5 for 10 days.
Maybe expand the seasons later, till end of December again.
If they want to try a different direction to help mule deer...okay...but remove some of the previous restrictions
that did not work.
So, 1 mule deer...okay....but make it any buck, make it all open on the same day, and close on the same day,
and make sure it is open everywhere.
If an area is suffering from lack of deer, hunters will go elsewhere, to look for areas/regions that hold more deer
and opportunity.
In my opinion, eventually this should balance itself out again, hunters will avoid areas with low mule deer #'s, and
then those areas should see less hunter impact.
AND, should those numbers stay low....then the ministry needs to accept that it is probably more of a
"habitat" issue or "predator" issue that is impacting certain areas.
But past history with governments and the ministry scare me now, as I have seen how "limited" our hunting
opportunities have become, and wonder if there is more at play then just "protecting wildlife".
Are we, the hunters, being "controlled/eliminated"....is that the real policy now days.
I am fine with evoking a new policy, to see if it works....but remove the old ones at the same time, because obviously, they didn't work.....

[tinhorse]

Excellent Post Wild one. Make all of regions 3 - 8 any buck but only one a year. Would spread out the pressure, help genetics and allow the hunter to decide on his or her priorities.

This exactly.

[tinhorse]

And a said above make the regions open and close on the same dates.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

So many different 'opinions' on the subject. Makes a person wonder how is the best way to make a decision?

Any thoughts? :|

[bloody bellies]

Really, I though bucks got pregnant, my point regarding not shooting small bucks is exactly your statement, Buck to doe ratio, obviously the buck to doe ratio is not there if the regs change to 1 deer tag, doe's are LEH, so it would make me's think either buck to doe ratio is not good because there has been to many Doe LEH draws given out or not enough bucks, and if there is not enough bucks it's because we are shooting them while they are young, if a doe gives birth to 2 deer( a buck n a doe) and we shoot the buck , because it is a dumb 2pt, what breeds the doe? because the other doe 100yrds over that gave birth to a buck and doe just got her buck shot as well, c where I'm might be going with this? this is just my 2 cents, people have their own opinions and I respect that. something needs to change and I don't believe letting us shoot small deer with a free for all is the answer.


Believe it or not but neither 2pt bucks nor any other/bigger bucks ever get pregnant. So their contribution to the population is limited as long as the buck to doe ratio is healthy meaning all does do mate.

[Salty]

So many different 'opinions' on the subject. Makes a person wonder how is the best way to make a decision?

Any thoughts? :|

Make the decision based on science, which about all of us here don't have. I look forward to hearing from the ministry on the whats, wheres, and whys on this proposal if it is indeed an active proposal. Meantime though the internet must carry on. lol

[limit time]

So many different 'opinions' on the subject. Makes a person wonder how is the best way to make a decision?

Any thoughts? :|

I didn’t know BC had this many biologists.

[limit time]

Nope. Local resident hunters. I'd heard about it for a while and came across it the other day. Requesting a number of changes.

WT Doe GOS is one, any MD buck, Youth seasons, spike elk and more. I don't have a copy, so don't have the full list.

Apologies to the OP for the sidetrack.

Sorry but, “I heard” doesn’t work for me. I heard the guides are pushing for it also.

[sthdslayer]

Everyone hunts for there own reasons and has their own threshold. The guy living in Kamloops or Kelowna who has easy access may have different ideas of what is a shooter buck to the father who takes time off work to travel with his buddies or his kids. As has been mentioned in this thread if we lose opportunity it is unlikely we will get it back. Look at recent changes due to the fires. Necessary probably but should be for everyone.
Point i'm trying to make is those that any changes made should be based on science with a goal to increasing or at worst maintain current opportunities.

[J_T]

Most likely guide outfitters.


probably the white tail doe season. That place turns into a shooting gallery come oct 10


Sorry but, “I heard” doesn’t work for me. I heard the guides are pushing for it also. The guides had supported (and recommended) curtailing some hunts during the formal recommendation process. But they weren't alone. A number of groups recommended some regulatory changes during that process.
The petition I referred to, was not something "I heard" (I'm usually spot on with my grammar and believe my communication is clear), it is something I 'had' heard about for a while and not given it much thought. The other evening at a wildlife meeting, I saw the petition. Better? It is not the guides that are pushing this petition. They may be signing it as individuals, but I wouldn't know. It is a small group of unaffiliated resident hunters that have spearheaded it.

[limit time]

The guides had supported (and recommended) curtailing some hunts during the formal recommendation process. But they weren't alone. A number of groups recommended some regulatory changes during that process.
The petition I referred to, was not something "I heard" (I'm usually spot on with my grammar and believe my communication is clear), it is something I 'had' heard about for a while and not given it much thought. The other evening at a wildlife meeting, I saw the petition. Better? It is not the guides that are pushing this petition. They may be signing it as individuals, but I wouldn't know. It is a small group of unaffiliated resident hunters that have spearheaded it.
Thanks for the clarification. Can you tell me what the age demographic of that group was ?

[J-F]

Build Habitat habitat habitat, road deactivation, be rid of any buck season, kill more predators bear, coyote, wolf, cats, stop the year round slaughter of any deer by a certain group.

All the above would be a start.

Thanks CT! This sums up my view on it.

[HarryToolips]

There is a reason BC is one of the last places with point restrictions on MD. It is bad for genetics and is poor for trophy quality. Any buck season is best for all hunters especially if it changes to 1 MD a year bag limit

Most of North America restricts the number of MD harvested instead of age class and have a 1 MD a year limit. This creates better trophy quality and higher buck to doe ratio.

The other issue with point restrictions is hunter error or slobs really. 3-32 made the paper because of the amount of bucks shot and left during 4 pt season by idiots who cant count

This also causes hunters to be more conservative about what they harvest because they only get 1 chance. True meat hunters will still take the first legal deer but you will also see more hunters willing to hold out because it is the only MD they can take

restricting the number of bucks taken vs point restrictions lowering the bag limit is way superior form of management for trophy class and herd health

To those who love 4pt season please tell me how this benifits hunters and deer? Explain why this was abandoned across most if not all of North America as a management tool even when trophy management is top goal
This.............the MOE aims for a 20 bucks:100 does ratio for mule deer...what we really need is funding to do aerial counts...but the NDP government is too busy managing wildlife by social pressure instead of using proper science and putting funding into that..from my observations some areas have good buck ratios while others areas, especially ones with lots of road access, have poor buck ratios..

[Stone Sheep Steve]

On the plus side, the dedicated funding model for wildlife that was supported by all parties before the provincial election was supported in the recent Provincial budget.

This is a major step in the right direction. Funding.....science......science based decisions.

SSS

[Steeleco]

nice adjectives...obliderate. You mean harvest. How are 2 mulie deer bucks hundreds of miles apart going to equal less deer being bred? No 2 point is breeding first off.

And through one genetic reason or another never become a 4 pt. But will spread his inferior genes because all the 4 points are dead, because after all we all want nothing but wall mounts. The smart ones become big for a reason. If the intent is to protect the deer population than shorten the season where needed and protect the dominant deer better.

[Wild one]

This.............the MOE aims for a 20 bucks:100 does ratio for mule deer...what we really need is funding to do aerial counts...but the NDP government is too busy managing wildlife by social pressure instead of using proper science and putting funding into that..from my observations some areas have good buck ratios while others areas, especially ones with lots of road access, have poor buck ratios..


I think the the lack of funding that causes bios to run with assumed numbers is no doubt a factor in BC. With the lack of solid numbers a more conservative approach is a better option in my opinion then the one being used. I know for a fact it has been many year since a proper count has been done in some areas

I do not blame BCs bios I know for a fact some are frustrated with BCs management as well

[stugatz]

Poor truck hunters will have to walk! Oh no. WT hunting is too hard!
A lot of older hunters have mobility issues

[Wild one]

In the end I have little hope for change as the mind set of BC hunters is not supportive of change and will push to keep things the way they are. Many believe BC is a hunting meca but the southern 2/3 of BC really are not. As much as many are anti non resident/GO they are a great judge of hunting quality. Reality is those who spend $ to hunt often go to locations with best odds and quality. Many locations and species in BC are in low demand for hunting tourism.

I hope enhancing habitat is in the future for BC but this is merely one factor. There are many locations with good habitat and declining numbers and this goes deeper then predators.

When it comes to deer BC is meh at best

[Wild one]

A lot of older hunters have mobility issues

This is not a curse to road hunting only. It's not that road hunting is a bad option in this case but not the only one

Lots of hunters with mobility issues kill wt without road hunting

BC just has a strong number of road hunters do to its access and now laws restricting it. Personally have no issues with those who choose to but there are options

[antlerking]

Why not have an online form you can fill out that reports region hunted,animals harvested,days hunted, number of animals seen and make it that hunters would want to take the time to fill out the form ex.have a special draw for elk or sheep during any season anywhere during any season it would cost tax payers 0 and they would receive more game counts then they would know what to do with

[guest]

I've sent in recommendations for mandatory reporting of ALL species we hunt. Accountability by ALL, including FN ....., that said, you don't get a new license or Tags till said reports are filled out. In addition, to make false statements on said reports is a violation and subject to penalties .......
This I am sure, is positive to help all Game Biologists and managers to make decisions based on results, reporting and science. Especially with the cutbacks to these people, and funding for surveys in recent years. Yet I am told , no their random surveys are accurate ..... Oh really? I'm also told we don't need more regulation, well, BC ungulates are at a turning point in my opinion, and ANY thing that's helpful, can't be a bad thing.
Again, this recommendation goes NO where and falls on deaf ears.
Truley Sad.

[Wild one]

I've sent in recommendations for mandatory reporting of ALL species we hunt. Accountability by ALL, including FN ....., that said, you don't get a new license or Tags till said reports are filled out. In addition, to make false statements on said reports is a violation and subject to penalties .......
This I am sure, is positive to help all Game Biologists and managers to make decisions based on results, reporting and science. Especially with the cutbacks to these people, and funding for surveys in recent years. Yet I am told , no their random surveys are accurate ..... Oh really? I'm also told we don't need more regulation, well, BC ungulates are at a turning point in my opinion, and ANY thing that's helpful, can't be a bad thing.
Again, this recommendation goes NO where and falls on deaf ears.
Truley Sad.

Mall for mandatory reporting and would be helpful but when you lack solid population numbers it is only partial info needed. In my opinion the overall population numbers being used in BC are more inaccurate then the numbers harvested

[antlerking]

I would like to see how many hunter surveys are actually returned most people have to busy of lives to take the time to complete them I'm willing to bet especially with nothing to gain . Also the information that is asked is very minimal

[Wild one]

I would like to see how many hunter surveys are actually returned most people have to busy of lives to take the time to complete them I'm willing to bet especially with nothing to gain . Also the information that is asked is very minimal

Then add in the guys who lie on them hoping to skew the data.

[limit time]

[QUOTE=Wild one;1953510]Then add in the guys who lie on them hoping to skew the data.

You think it happens a lot ?

[CAC]

Build Habitat habitat habitat, road deactivation, be rid of any buck season, kill more predators bear, coyote, wolf, cats, stop the year round slaughter of any deer by a certain group.

All the above would be a start.

#1 issue

Lots of great habitat created with the logging, but damn man deactivate the frickin ROADS!

[j270wsm]

Why not have an online form you can fill out that reports region hunted,animals harvested,days hunted, number of animals seen and make it that hunters would want to take the time to fill out the form ex.have a special draw for elk or sheep during any season anywhere during any season it would cost tax payers 0 and they would receive more game counts then they would know what to do with

ever filled out your hunter survey that comes in the mail????

[twoSevenO]

Why not have an online form you can fill out that reports region hunted,animals harvested,days hunted, number of animals seen and make it that hunters would want to take the time to fill out the form ex.have a special draw for elk or sheep during any season anywhere during any season it would cost tax payers 0 and they would receive more game counts then they would know what to do with

Except this online "form" is quite expensive. Even if a similar product exists already to be purchased the won't be cheap .... why? Because government has money and they know they can charge a good amount. And because all software for commercial use is crazy expensive. Likely it doesn't exist or has to be heavily modified so you're looking at major porting costs then huge maintenance costs, security audits etc etc.

I know it sounds simple but when it's a government level site... that stuff is expensive.

Having said that every government site or app out there is a piece of sh** because government isn't about software and all the contracted companies and outsourcing result in crap products at hugely inflated prices.

Source: built sh**y apps for a branch in the government for a few years.

[GEF]

No general opening for any buck ,4 point leh and Oct 31 closure. Wait for it its coming!

[horshur]

might as well hang up the guns it's hopeless..

[HarryToolips]

How many guys actually shoot more than one MD a year? That being said, until road access is cut down a bit, I would say cut the any buck season to maybe 2-3 weeks, I don't think taking it out completely is a good idea..

[HarryToolips]

For many BC hunters that only know mule deer yes. I have laughed many times running into hunters who can't find wt in areas with strong populations. For myself I am better at hunting WT and BT then I am at hunting MD lol. So it's all about knowledge and tactics in my opinion

But I have seen an increase in the number of hunters taking the time to learn WT tactics and apply them

WT are not tougher they are different
I agree and can relate, ima far better wt hunter than MD hunter..

[Stone Sheep Steve]

There are some significant changes on the horizon.

"2018 B.C. Budget Consultation: "Committee Members support dedicated funding for fish and wildlife conservation and management, and a science and ecosystem-based approach to conservation and management."

Wildlife managers can't make changes to regulations without the most recent inventories supporting their proposals.

In the last flight counts for mule deer in Region 8 there were mixed results. Some MU's (or portion of MU's) were below the target minimum of 20 bucks per 100 does.....while some were well above the minimums...even in high pressure MU's like 8-11. The MU with the lowest deer numbers and low buck:doe ratios hasn't seen a significant burn for decades.......at least until this year.

But one of the most important pieces of info that came from the most recent flights was that the fawn to doe ratios were consistently in the 65-68:100 range going into winter(considered healthy). This shows that sperm supply isn't a factor.

The MU's that were low are on the radar for potential changes. Hopefully, the dedicated funding will increase the frequency of inventory flights so they can adjust seasons in a timely fashion...if required.

SSS

[Stone Sheep Steve]

How many guys actually shoot more than one MD a year? That being said, until road access is cut down a bit, I would say cut the any buck season to maybe 2-3 weeks, I don't think taking it out completely is a good idea..

I've killed more than one muley buck in a season only once.

Might be a good poll to make??

[.300WSMImpact!]

love to see them on LEH and limit the guides to 5% of the tags maybe for 2 or three years

[antlerking]

Stop killing does and have any buck for kids and seniors

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNOH627-WqU&feature=youtu.be

[simonvancouver]

1 MD a year is still more then i have managed to shoot lol joys of a new hunter, but seriously 1 MD a year and no point restrictions would benefit us all in the long run.

[Surrey Boy]

1 MD a year is still more then i have managed to shoot lol joys of a new hunter, but seriously 1 MD a year and no point restrictions would benefit us all in the long run.

Easy to say that now. You'll limit out in due time and feel our frustration.

ICBC will suffer too.

[HarryToolips]

I think the the lack of funding that causes bios to run with assumed numbers is no doubt a factor in BC. With the lack of solid numbers a more conservative approach is a better option in my opinion then the one being used. I know for a fact it has been many year since a proper count has been done in some areas

I do not blame BCs bios I know for a fact some are frustrated with BCs management as well
I completely agree.......it is definitely not their fault, they can only do so much with little $$

[HarryToolips]

On the plus side, the dedicated funding model for wildlife that was supported by all parties before the provincial election was supported in the recent Provincial budget.

This is a major step in the right direction. Funding.....science......science based decisions.

SSS
That is definitely a major step, God I hope it actually does come to fruition..

[REMINGTON JIM]

Build Habitat habitat habitat, road deactivation, be rid of any buck season, kill more predators bear, coyote, wolf, cats, stop the year round slaughter of any deer by a certain group.

All the above would be a start.

YUP Completely AGREE ! RJ

[horshur]

One buck limit on Mule deer would maybe solve some social issues and perhaps spread the harvest to some who would not otherwise but it is pretty useless as a tool to raise the deer population. Many of the suggestions are just strategic to raise overall age of bucks which has some merit socially but not so much biologically. The crux of so many complaints is you guy's egos for the most part and I don't think that's wrong really it is just a fact about being a man in general no need to apologize but there sure is a need for honesty. Cause honestly your complaints have shit all to do with herd health...just more politics to get what you want.

[HarryToolips]

There are some significant changes on the horizon.

"2018 B.C. Budget Consultation: "Committee Members support dedicated funding for fish and wildlife conservation and management, and a science and ecosystem-based approach to conservation and management."

Wildlife managers can't make changes to regulations without the most recent inventories supporting their proposals.

In the last flight counts for mule deer in Region 8 there were mixed results. Some MU's (or portion of MU's) were below the target minimum of 20 bucks per 100 does.....while some were well above the minimums...even in high pressure MU's like 8-11. The MU with the lowest deer numbers and low buck:doe ratios hasn't seen a significant burn for decades.......at least until this year.

But one of the most important pieces of info that came from the most recent flights was that the fawn to doe ratios were consistently in the 65-68:100 range going into winter(considered healthy). This shows that sperm supply isn't a factor.

The MU's that were low are on the radar for potential changes. Hopefully, the dedicated funding will increase the frequency of inventory flights so they can adjust seasons in a timely fashion...if required.

SSS
Well there ya go....when we're these aerial counts done??

[HarryToolips]

I've killed more than one muley buck in a season only once.

Might be a good poll to make??
I agree......

[HarryToolips]

I should add that from my observations this year I'm seeing very healthy mule deer numbers, a lot of yearlings, which supports the claim that sperm supply isn't an issue, though I'm seeing way more does than bucks as usual, but I'm guessing that a lot of the bucks are just staying in the thick/nocturnal..

[Bugle M In]

Heck guys, I cant speak for every mu in r3, but just about every doe I've seen has a fawn.
If the survey is saying 60-70%...I would have to say that is bang on.
Now...how many of those fawns make it to "breeding age".....the following fall!!??
You know...before the hunting season......what percentage is left then?....and if it's way down,
there's only 2 main factors for that...habitat or preds.
1 mule deer....well...you will have some tagging a deer for the freezer, and others in search of "the big one".
What I do know is certain in that scenario, certain R3 mu's will be a lot less busy come the "remembrance weekend".
Also, if you opened up R5 which is closed at that time will also disperse hunters more.
There is "no If's" about that.
Come November, many meat guys will have their deer....and they will be done, atleast with mulie hunting.
Or, you may find a few guys "start to become selective" when hunting mule deer.
Lets face it, some don't want hunting to end by October, and if you are stuck with only 1 tag, well, you may start
passing up on those "easy dumb bucks" (as some refer them as).
Also for sure is, you won't have someone (LM'r like me) hunting R8 for a cheap meat buck, and the up to join
the crowds in R3 during the "rut".
I am pretty confident about what will occur with those changes, and hunters habits, and the amount of hunters in
an area, at certain times of the season...if they make it a 1 deer limit.
What I don't get is...why are some of you (and you are hunters just like me), so worried about whether a "spike buck"
is taken????
So what!....what does it matter if someone here wants meat...let them....it's not going to damage our mulies future
population.
For everyone of those guys, there's a guy like me who is looking for a minimum 4 pt.

On top of that, what about those "genetically huge 3 pt's", that you only see during 4 pt season.
In the end we end up with a bunch of 3 pointers, or those "frickin crab claw" that seem to be taking over.
(yup, sometimes I have forgone the "big one", just to weed out those buggers)

At least an open buck season, with no point restriction is the "healthy" way to go.
There's lots of us who pass on those little guys.
And there's lots of those big boys around too...and if you have a lot of hunting experience, then you all know that those bucks exist....they are just frickin hard to hunt, or get at during daylight hours.
Like I said, I am all good with it, I don't need 3 deer in my freezer.
If we are going to have to swallow that pill, then at least we should all get on board and remove the previous restrictions.....that should be the concern.
The only guys it will hurt are the ones "who truly need/use" the 3 deer they harvest in a season.

I respect peoples opinions...I do...but I don't get why someone still thinks that a "point restriction" needs to be also
applied to a species where you will now be reduced to only taking 1 in a annual season.
If there is an issue with the population of mule deer, and we have been reduced to only taking 1, I guarantee you,
It is "not" hunting that is causing the problem, and it won't be because "all the little" guys were taken because of
hunting either......it will be something that is "not" related to us hunters.
I think it's time as hunters, we all get in line, on board, and start "pushing back"....
We have been shoved around for years now, and some of you were not even born when that started....
and it was in the name of making "wildlife more abundant" in the future, thru "protection", by the use and "implementation of restriction".....
Guess what???.....big fail!!......didn't happen....did it.......how much more "science" do you need?????

[HappyJack]

I read somewhere they were considering making you hunt in the MU where you live. No more would everyone from the LML be converging on kamloops and the Kootenay regions. I know when I go hunt 7b lots of the locals don't like seeing us up there....food for thought.

[HappyJack]

Heck guys, I cant speak for every mu in r3, but just about every doe I've seen has a fawn.
If the survey is saying 60-70%...I would have to say that is bang on.
Now...how many of those fawns make it to "breeding age".....the following fall!!??
You know...before the hunting season......what percentage is left then?....and if it's way down,
there's only 2 main factors for that...habitat or preds.
1 mule deer....well...you will have some tagging a deer for the freezer, and others in search of "the big one".
What I do know is certain in that scenario, certain R3 mu's will be a lot less busy come the "remembrance weekend".
Also, if you opened up R5 which is closed at that time will also disperse hunters more.
There is "no If's" about that.
Come November, many meat guys will have their deer....and they will be done, atleast with mulie hunting.
Or, you may find a few guys "start to become selective" when hunting mule deer.
Lets face it, some don't want hunting to end by October, and if you are stuck with only 1 tag, well, you may start
passing up on those "easy dumb bucks" (as some refer them as).
Also for sure is, you won't have someone (LM'r like me) hunting R8 for a cheap meat buck, and the up to join
the crowds in R3 during the "rut".
I am pretty confident about what will occur with those changes, and hunters habits, and the amount of hunters in
an area, at certain times of the season...if they make it a 1 deer limit.
What I don't get is...why are some of you (and you are hunters just like me), so worried about whether a "spike buck"
is taken????
So what!....what does it matter if someone here wants meat...let them....it's not going to damage our mulies future
population.
For everyone of those guys, there's a guy like me who is looking for a minimum 4 pt.

On top of that, what about those "genetically huge 3 pt's", that you only see during 4 pt season.
In the end we end up with a bunch of 3 pointers, or those "frickin crab claw" that seem to be taking over.
(yup, sometimes I have forgone the "big one", just to weed out those buggers)

At least an open buck season, with no point restriction is the "healthy" way to go.
There's lots of us who pass on those little guys.
And there's lots of those big boys around too...and if you have a lot of hunting experience, then you all know that those bucks exist....they are just frickin hard to hunt, or get at during daylight hours.
Like I said, I am all good with it, I don't need 3 deer in my freezer.
If we are going to have to swallow that pill, then at least we should all get on board and remove the previous restrictions.....that should be the concern.
The only guys it will hurt are the ones "who truly need/use" the 3 deer they harvest in a season.

I respect peoples opinions...I do...but I don't get why someone still thinks that a "point restriction" needs to be also
applied to a species where you will now be reduced to only taking 1 in a annual season.
If there is an issue with the population of mule deer, and we have been reduced to only taking 1, I guarantee you,
It is "not" hunting that is causing the problem, and it won't be because "all the little" guys were taken because of
hunting either......it will be something that is "not" related to us hunters.
I think it's time as hunters, we all get in line, on board, and start "pushing back"....
We have been shoved around for years now, and some of you were not even born when that started....
and it was in the name of making "wildlife more abundant" in the future, thru "protection", by the use and "implementation of restriction".....
Guess what???.....big fail!!......didn't happen....did it.......how much more "science" do you need?????

Well stated. I've passed on 8 small mule bucks already this season, I'm holding out for a big one, could have tagged more but one will be enough this season.

[limit time]

I read somewhere they were considering making you hunt in the MU where you live. No more would everyone from the LML be converging on kamloops and the Kootenay regions. I know when I go hunt 7b lots of the locals don't like seeing us up there....food for thought.

They should do that with fishing also, including salmon.

[limit time]

might as well hang up the guns it's hopeless..

That’s the end game , No hunting means no reason to have guns... so ban all of them also !

[limit time]

love to see them on LEH and limit the guides to 5% of the tags maybe for 2 or three years
why let people from outside this province take deer we should get ?

[limit time]

This is not a curse to road hunting only. It's not that road hunting is a bad option in this case but not the only one

Lots of hunters with mobility issues kill wt without road hunting

BC just has a strong number of road hunters do to its access and now laws restricting it. Personally have no issues with those who choose to but there are options

Also prohibit sleds, s x s, three and four wheelers, dirt bikes.... oh wait let’s not forget jetboat !

[Wild one]

Also prohibit sleds, s x s, three and four wheelers, dirt bikes.... oh wait let’s not forget jetboat !

Was not say to ban or regulate road hunting of any kind. Only stated it's not the only option for someone with mobility issues

[Wild one]

love to see them on LEH and limit the guides to 5% of the tags maybe for 2 or three years

GOs have no quota on deer but not a ton of interest in BC deer hunts from non residents. Bet GO deer harvest is already around 5%.

[steel_ram]

I read somewhere they were considering making you hunt in the MU where you live. No more would everyone from the LML be converging on kamloops and the Kootenay regions. I know when I go hunt 7b lots of the locals don't like seeing us up there....food for thought.

"I read somewhere" the opposite was being considered. Locals know the country, have a much higher success rate and their hunting activity contributes the least to the economy. Besides, they are already making a living of exploiting the environment. :P

[HarryToolips]

I read somewhere they were considering making you hunt in the MU where you live. No more would everyone from the LML be converging on kamloops and the Kootenay regions. I know when I go hunt 7b lots of the locals don't like seeing us up there....food for thought.
That would be a terrible idea...and good luck policing it....just look at how out of state hunters in the USA can hunt various different states...justthink how much $$ out of town hunting brings to the economy..

[HappyJack]

"I read somewhere" the opposite was being considered. Locals know the country, have a much higher success rate and their hunting activity contributes the least to the economy. Besides, they are already making a living of exploiting the environment. :P

But just think about how many hunters would have to stay in region 2. :-) the game all across the province would boom!!

[hoochie]

I read somewhere they were considering making you hunt in the MU where you live. No more would everyone from the LML be converging on kamloops and the Kootenay regions. I know when I go hunt 7b lots of the locals don't like seeing us up there....food for thought.

whatever.
So the people in Reg 2 are never going to hunt moose, whitetail, turkey etc again?
"I read somewhere...." good one.

[hoochie]

But just think about how many hunters would have to stay in region 2. :-) the game all across the province would boom!!

Look at the size of the province bud, then consider the number of people from Reg2 who hunt VS the number of people who live and hunt in areas that hold game animals. we dont have animals here, thus we travel. And people in other regions far surpass the number of hunters coming out of reg 2.

[Fisher-Dude]

So much stupid in this thread.

Horgan and Raincoast are rubbing their hands together with you lot of dorks.

[howa1500]

I read somewhere they were considering making you hunt in the MU where you live. No more would everyone from the LML be converging on kamloops and the Kootenay regions. I know when I go hunt 7b lots of the locals don't like seeing us up there....food for thought.

Then my provincial income taxes, better not leave the lower mainland and support anything in the rest of the province, as a resident of British Columbia, I expect to have access to the entire province, just like my medical covers me in the entire province.

[Wild one]

So much stupid in this thread.

Horgan and Raincoast are rubbing their hands together with you lot of dorks.

No they got about 5 years of your post history to go before they run out ammo and need to dig elsewhere lol

Your no saint

[Bugle M In]

I've got to say folks....this hunting community, and I don't just mean on this site, is really falling apart.
If I was an Anti, sitting here reading this stuff, I would be laughing and feeling like "victory is just around the corner".
It's sad, and really make me want to no longer "click to this site", or any hunting stuff.
Really, I am at a point where hunting is nearing an end, sooner then later, and a daughter who I suspect
"will never pull the trigger" (and that's fine by me), who just goes because Dad goes, and at least I can teach her
about things in nature, and to show her "who dad is".
I don't mean to dump on all you folks, like I said, I don't make the comments because I am trying to "preserve" my
daughters future......It's trying to preserve the rest of you guys/gals and having the right, and the opportunity
to hunt for a long time to come.
Bashing guys from one Region, or bashing a guy on what he decides to take....is just ridicoulous.
If things are "managed" properly, there would be no need for this BS.
The truth is, some policies have really only brought worse results over the years.
It's become so frickin "complicated" with this should happen here and that should happen there.
It should be "simplified"....period.
Worst, much of the "lose of game sightings" has never been hunting related to begin with.....ever.
And worse, the clock is ticking, and may of you don't see it ......sad....and scary......
But hey, in the end, I am almost done......it will be you folks who have lost the opportunities.
And all the time, you only have "squabble and in-fighting" to look back upon....
That will be your "legacy", and although that wasn't what you were al striving for, it will be what your left with.. Nothing.!

[russm]

I read somewhere they were considering making you hunt in the MU where you live. No more would everyone from the LML be converging on kamloops and the Kootenay regions. I know when I go hunt 7b lots of the locals don't like seeing us up there....food for thought.

Lol I'd make it an bigger effort to hunt outside of region 2 if that ever happened.

[gcreek]

I've got to say folks....this hunting community, and I don't just mean on this site, is really falling apart.
If I was an Anti, sitting here reading this stuff, I would be laughing and feeling like "victory is just around the corner".
It's sad, and really make me want to no longer "click to this site", or any hunting stuff.
Really, I am at a point where hunting is nearing an end, sooner then later, and a daughter who I suspect
"will never pull the trigger" (and that's fine by me), who just goes because Dad goes, and at least I can teach her
about things in nature, and to show her "who dad is".
I don't mean to dump on all you folks, like I said, I don't make the comments because I am trying to "preserve" my
daughters future......It's trying to preserve the rest of you guys/gals and having the right, and the opportunity
to hunt for a long time to come.
Bashing guys from one Region, or bashing a guy on what he decides to take....is just ridicoulous.
If things are "managed" properly, there would be no need for this BS.
The truth is, some policies have really only brought worse results over the years.
It's become so frickin "complicated" with this should happen here and that should happen there.
It should be "simplified"....period.
Worst, much of the "lose of game sightings" has never been hunting related to begin with.....ever.
And worse, the clock is ticking, and may of you don't see it ......sad....and scary......
But hey, in the end, I am almost done......it will be you folks who have lost the opportunities.
And all the time, you only have "squabble and in-fighting" to look back upon....
That will be your "legacy", and although that wasn't what you were al striving for, it will be what your left with.. Nothing.!

Spot on! If as much effort was made to encourage governmental predator control something might happen.

[HappyJack]

whatever.
So the people in Reg 2 are never going to hunt moose, whitetail, turkey etc again?
"I read somewhere...." good one.

Well you could always move?? It's not just region 2. No more guys can go from 7A and hunt region 5, do you realize how much pressure that would take off the deer there? {in case you haven't figured it out yet, this is in jest}

[J_T]

I cant tell if there are a lot of trolls on here trying to set the groundwork for anti hunter's agenda, or a lot of disatisfied hunters speaking theoretically and upon hearsay conversations. Nothing concrete.
If you really want to know whats going on, get involved. Outside the internet.

[REMINGTON JIM]

So much stupid in this thread.

Horgan and Raincoast are rubbing their hands together with you lot of dorks.


Ya KNOW :roll: Pat Maybe you should get something DONE and HELP out instead of always just Beaking OFF ! We are just hunters and fisher people ! :tongue: :wink: RJ

[Whonnock Boy]

Ain't that the truth. A set of legs, with a mouth on top....


Ya KNOW :roll: Pat Maybe you should get something DONE and HELP out instead of always just Beaking OFF ! We are just hunters and fisher people ! :tongue: :wink: RJ

[.300WSMImpact!]

GOs have no quota on deer but not a ton of interest in BC deer hunts from non residents. Bet GO deer harvest is already around 5%.

put it on LEH and it would be a hot ticket

[tuner]

I cant tell if there are a lot of trolls on here trying to set the groundwork for anti hunter's agenda, or a lot of disatisfied hunters speaking theoretically and upon hearsay conversations. Nothing concrete.
If you really want to know whats going on, get involved. Outside the internet.
So well said, amen!

[Fisher-Dude]

Ya KNOW :roll: Pat Maybe you should get something DONE and HELP out instead of always just Beaking OFF ! We are just hunters and fisher people ! :tongue: :wink: RJ

Room for ya on the bus if ya wanna get on RJ, instead of just beaking on the internet!

[Keta1969]

I've got to say folks....this hunting community, and I don't just mean on this site, is really falling apart.
If I was an Anti, sitting here reading this stuff, I would be laughing and feeling like "victory is just around the corner".
It's sad, and really make me want to no longer "click to this site", or any hunting stuff.
Really, I am at a point where hunting is nearing an end, sooner then later, and a daughter who I suspect
"will never pull the trigger" (and that's fine by me), who just goes because Dad goes, and at least I can teach her
about things in nature, and to show her "who dad is".
I don't mean to dump on all you folks, like I said, I don't make the comments because I am trying to "preserve" my
daughters future......It's trying to preserve the rest of you guys/gals and having the right, and the opportunity
to hunt for a long time to come.
Bashing guys from one Region, or bashing a guy on what he decides to take....is just ridicoulous.
If things are "managed" properly, there would be no need for this BS.
The truth is, some policies have really only brought worse results over the years.
It's become so frickin "complicated" with this should happen here and that should happen there.
It should be "simplified"....period.
Worst, much of the "lose of game sightings" has never been hunting related to begin with.....ever.
And worse, the clock is ticking, and may of you don't see it ......sad....and scary......
But hey, in the end, I am almost done......it will be you folks who have lost the opportunities.
And all the time, you only have "squabble and in-fighting" to look back upon....
That will be your "legacy", and although that wasn't what you were al striving for, it will be what your left with.. Nothing.!

Couldn't agree more.I'd hoped to hunt with my grandaughters like I do with my sons. I'm probably just old and crochety but it seems that the more toys and gear that come into hunting the worst it becomes.

[338win mag]

I think the differing opinions is coming from the hunting community being multifaceted.
You have people who feed their families with little bucks, you have people who only shoot big bucks, you have guide outfitters who just want to screw over the resident hunters, recently we have what I call "hippie hunters" and still other types of hunters so its not surprising why their not all one voice.
Lets not lose sight of the fact that the government of this province has done nothing whatsoever to improve life for ungulates in this province, instead of making laws for resident hunters to follow they need to create legislation in regards to road deactivation after all silviculture work is complete in recently logged area's, in many cases these forest companies are controlled by foreigners.
I for one am dumbfounded by the lack of fingers pointing at this offending entity and their lack of stewardship is appalling.

The best thing to happen this spring is the flooding which washed out roads and bridges limiting access to otherwise road infested backcountry, all hunters must agree on road deactivation and the fact that the people who govern this province need to do something, and anything is better than nothing which is what we have now, we dont need to curtail the resident hunters any further.

[stan]

Nov 25 to dec 10 archery for mule deer is also going bye bye.

[one-shot-wonder]

I think the differing opinions is coming from the hunting community being multifaceted.
You have people who feed their families with little bucks, you have people who only shoot big bucks, you have guide outfitters who just want to screw over the resident hunters, recently we have what I call "hippie hunters" and still other types of hunters so its not surprising why their not all one voice.
Lets not lose sight of the fact that the government of this province has done nothing whatsoever to improve life for ungulates in this province, instead of making laws for resident hunters to follow they need to create legislation in regards to road deactivation after all silviculture work is complete in recently logged area's, in many cases these forest companies are controlled by foreigners.
I for one am dumbfounded by the lack of fingers pointing at this offending entity and their lack of stewardship is appalling.

The best thing to happen this spring is the flooding which washed out roads and bridges limiting access to otherwise road infested backcountry, all hunters must agree on road deactivation and the fact that the people who govern this province need to do something, and anything is better than nothing which is what we have now, we dont need to curtail the resident hunters any further.

Nail on the head....

[one-shot-wonder]

Nov 25 to dec 10 archery for mule deer is also going bye bye.

Sayanora....

[Bugle M In]

I think the differing opinions is coming from the hunting community being multifaceted.
You have people who feed their families with little bucks, you have people who only shoot big bucks, you have guide outfitters who just want to screw over the resident hunters, recently we have what I call "hippie hunters" and still other types of hunters so its not surprising why their not all one voice.
Lets not lose sight of the fact that the government of this province has done nothing whatsoever to improve life for ungulates in this province, instead of making laws for resident hunters to follow they need to create legislation in regards to road deactivation after all silviculture work is complete in recently logged area's, in many cases these forest companies are controlled by foreigners.
I for one am dumbfounded by the lack of fingers pointing at this offending entity and their lack of stewardship is appalling.

The best thing to happen this spring is the flooding which washed out roads and bridges limiting access to otherwise road infested backcountry, all hunters must agree on road deactivation and the fact that the people who govern this province need to do something, and anything is better than nothing which is what we have now, we dont need to curtail the resident hunters any further.

After just coming back from an R3 mule hunt, and hunting in an area heavily impacted by the fire.
I can see why the ATV restriction was put into place....
Some of those fire perimeters are like "highways"...triple as wide as a spur road, and into some
"prime hangouts" for deer.
I sure hope they have every intention of "deactivating" these fire perimeter roads.....but I am worried they won't.

IF they did, that would be the best outcome for the future.
And, then allow ATV's, but have them "restricted to the main FSR's".
Unfortunately, a there are still some users who just don't care, and would break that rule, all the time, ruining it for
the responsible folks.
I cant see that "ban" leaving anytime soon after what I saw the other week...and ya, still a few guys needing to be
informed on the restrictions.
Those fires will be great in years to come...but the ministry needs to do something about those fire perimeters roads
and "really deactivating" for trucks....it won't stop ATV's though.
So, I expect that ban to carry over unless they can just "limit roads for ATV's to be used on" which is something
that would also be fair....
You can up into areas by vehicle, but from there, on foot on spur roads....IMO.

[antlerking]

1 mule deer is lots if your family is large and you need more then get the hole family involved (family 4-4 deer) and standardize season to spread pressure province wide Sept 10-Dec10

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Nov 25 to dec 10 archery for mule deer is also going bye bye.

Heard the same thing.
That is the season I'm going to miss the most.

Alligning with region 4??

[Stillhunting]

1 mule deer is lots if your family is large and you need more then get the hole family involved (family 4-4 deer) and standardize season to spread pressure province wide Sept 10-Dec10

I tend to agree, especially with the harmonizing of seasons accross the province. If there really is a concern with population numbers, get rid of the LEH for does. However, if this is all just a response to hunters complaining because it's a little more challenging to find a good buck, then this won't accomplish much I'm afraid. As has been said countless times already, habitat is the key. Road deactivation is great but I see so many trails off road that more needs to be done. Fines should be steeper, and more COs are required in the bush.

[303savage]

I hope region 3 goes on LEH for mule deer.

Why would you want that?

[stan]

If numbers are low why wouldn’t the any buck season or the youth seasons disappear, instead of the 4 point archery season, arrows don’t kill many bucks anyway. Region 8 I’m referring too.

[Wild one]

If numbers are low why wouldn’t the any buck season or the youth seasons disappear, instead of the 4 point archery season, arrows don’t kill many bucks anyway. Region 8 I’m referring too.

Because this is BC

[Stone Sheep Steve]

If numbers are low why wouldn’t the any buck season or the youth seasons disappear, instead of the 4 point archery season, arrows don’t kill many bucks anyway. Region 8 I’m referring too.

The majority of mule deer bucks are killed during the any buck season. Reducing that season would get you the most bang for the buck...so to speak.
It's too early to tell what other changes are coming.

[Fisher-Dude]

If numbers are low why wouldn’t the any buck season or the youth seasons disappear, instead of the 4 point archery season, arrows don’t kill many bucks anyway. Region 8 I’m referring too.

The archery season is any buck.

Buck:doe ratios are quite good in region 8. Only a couple of MUs out of 20ish are below target, and none of those are below conservation levels.

We've got lots of sperm in region 8. If we want more mule deer, we need habitat. Nothing else will make any difference.

[Island Idiots]

"
I think the differing opinions is coming from the hunting community being multifaceted.
You have people who feed their families with little bucks, you have people who only shoot big bucks, you have guide outfitters who just want to screw over the resident hunters, recently we have what I call "hippie hunters" and still other types of hunters so its not surprising why their not all one voice.
Lets not lose sight of the fact that the government of this province has done nothing whatsoever to improve life for ungulates in this province, instead of making laws for resident hunters to follow they need to create legislation in regards to road deactivation after all silviculture work is complete in recently logged area's, in many cases these forest companies are controlled by foreigners.
I for one am dumbfounded by the lack of fingers pointing at this offending entity and their lack of stewardship is appalling.

The best thing to happen this spring is the flooding which washed out roads and bridges limiting access to otherwise road infested backcountry, all hunters must agree on road deactivation and the fact that the people who govern this province need to do something, and anything is better than nothing which is what we have now, we dont need to curtail the resident hunters any further."


I agree with most of this. But there are other groups you left out, such as old guys with bad hearts who need to be able to access the back roads and trails so they have an opportunity to harvest something.
Your point about lack of action by those responsible for management, and lack of funding to go along with that is dead on.

[stan]

The archery season is any buck.

Buck:doe ratios are quite good in region 8. Only a couple of MUs out of 20ish are below target, and none of those are below conservation levels.

We've got lots of sperm in region 8. If we want more mule deer, we need habitat. Nothing else will make any difference.
Only interested in mature 4 points so I don’t care.

[Fisher-Dude]

Only interested in mature 4 points so I don’t care.

You can hunt them from Sept 1 to Nov 10 with your bow. Season's open, fill your boots.

For the other 99% of bow hunters who don't care that you want a "mature 4 point", the late archery season is any buck.

[Wild one]

Only thing most can agree on is they are not happy with the state of a BCs mule deer hunting

It's such a mess with the different directions hunters want to see there will be no agreement. Add in the common BC hunter fear of how the others may impact them personally. Along with the fear of any form of loss wether it's a day, bag limit change, or restrictions to what or how you can take a mule deer.

The trend with continue to be a mess

Once again it will be adjust to what happens to BCs regs and if I want improvement I will hunt outside of BC. I will have a better quality 7- 10 day hunt with number and quality of bucks then a whole season in BC lol.

Or I could spend more days, more $, and time of work for a lower quality/success rate in BC.

[skibum]

If we want more mule deer, we need habitat. Nothing else will make any difference.

I have started more than a couple posts stating this, and erase them. Habitat dwarfs the impact of other mule deer issues (FN, predators)

[stan]

Anyways, for sure gonna be less opportunity.

[HarryToolips]

I think the differing opinions is coming from the hunting community being multifaceted.
You have people who feed their families with little bucks, you have people who only shoot big bucks, you have guide outfitters who just want to screw over the resident hunters, recently we have what I call "hippie hunters" and still other types of hunters so its not surprising why their not all one voice.
Lets not lose sight of the fact that the government of this province has done nothing whatsoever to improve life for ungulates in this province, instead of making laws for resident hunters to follow they need to create legislation in regards to road deactivation after all silviculture work is complete in recently logged area's, in many cases these forest companies are controlled by foreigners.
I for one am dumbfounded by the lack of fingers pointing at this offending entity and their lack of stewardship is appalling.

The best thing to happen this spring is the flooding which washed out roads and bridges limiting access to otherwise road infested backcountry, all hunters must agree on road deactivation and the fact that the people who govern this province need to do something, and anything is better than nothing which is what we have now, we dont need to curtail the resident hunters any further.
This is the truth, if we deactivate not all, but more spur roads, it will help out our hunting greatly, and there won't be as much justification for more hunting regs restriction..

[HarryToolips]

Hunting in a heavily hunted area in region 8 earlier this month, an area where there is a month long any buck season in October, and a generous youth buck season for all of September, in a area of good quality HABITAT, my partner and I counted 38 mule deer and 12 WT in exactly 4 hours of hunting, there were MD bucks observed (now minus 1 4 pointer)..habitat habitat habitat..

[Ohwildwon]

1 mule deer is lots if your family is large and you need more then get the hole family involved (family 4-4 deer) and standardize season to spread pressure province wide Sept 10-Dec10

1 mule deer is lots?

If one male adult (like myself), were to average 1lb of venison every 3 days over a year, that's 120lbs..

That's up to 3 two pointers right there...

[shed-hunter1]

How many deer will the natives be able to shoot per year? Shouldnt let any whitemen hunt then they will be happy!!

they have been hunting reg 5 heavy since the closure about sums it up

[338win mag]

One mule deer for the resident hunter, and two bucks for G/O, that way there will be more opportunity for G/O and their clients, makes sense.
Maybe the G/O should have their opportunities curtailed 1st before citizens of this province get screwed again, and the more I think about it, smells a little fishy to me.

[338win mag]

Its smells fishy to have limitations imposed when these fires are going to produce good habitat for mule deer and other ungulates, when they haven't given it a chance.

[todbartell]

One mule deer for the resident hunter, and two bucks for G/O, that way there will be more opportunity for G/O and their clients, makes sense.
Maybe the G/O should have their opportunities curtailed 1st before citizens of this province get screwed again, and the more I think about it, smells a little fishy to me.

7 mule deer have been killed by non residents in the Kamloops area in the last decade.

[338win mag]

7 mule deer have been killed by non residents in the Kamloops area in the last decade.
LOL, I was being sarcastic, I dont know how many mule deer are killed by G/O, doesnt matter, they should be curtailed the same as resident hunters, or more so.

[Fisher-Dude]

how many people shoot more than 1 mule deer...I reckon it isn't that many.

Most recent study of harvest stats that I saw showed less than 4% of hunters shoot a second mule deer.

[Bugle M In]

Most recent study of harvest stats that I saw showed less than 4% of hunters shoot a second mule deer.

This, and the fact that it is only a small portion I assume of hunters who have success yearly, year after year, and
most likely, hunting for "meat bucks"
(like me, I have the opportunity, but still don't let the pin go....conservation at it's extreme...lol....my choice).
And then I am "assuming"? ....that those who do have success yearly, are for the most part
"Locals"...because they have the opportunity to get out there easier, more often, and learn terrain and honey holes,
if they apply themselves properly.
I find it surprising that some think it's us LM's that do all the "game removing" in Region to Region.
Have there ever been studies on seeing if people from the same regions, say someone in Kamloops, and his/her
success rate in R3, as compared to someone who comes from R2 to hunt R3, and how many days on average
they hunt?
Just asking, but, it isn't hunting as to why we have game # problems right now.
Wish people would just see that placing more "hunting restrictions" is the "easiest " thing that the ministry can
do, and the cheapest way.....but not the "right way" or what is needed to actually bring those #'s back up.