Super Pissed! I found 2 poached deer today!

[Wildfoot]

For work I drive an atv through orchards around osoyoos. Today I found the remains of 2 deer in seperate orchards. Both had the hind quarters removed and the rest was left to rot. One was fed to the landowner's dogs :evil:

I reported them both to RAPP, so hopefully they are able to get enough evidence to charge these *******s! The one deer's fawn is wandering around the adjacent orchards by itself now.. :evil:

Dumbass orchard owners.. wanting to save $50 in fruit that the deer would have eaten, so they kill them! The one orchard had a mulie buck too that I would see every day, and it has been gone since early july.

Remember to keep your eyes and ears open and to report any suspicious activies related to our beloved game animals in BC! These *******s ruin it for everyone!

[Steeleco]

Don't the land owners have some right to protect their crops? I'm not saying I agree with their actions, but if they are having problems they should be allowed to have the animals taken off their land, but not wasted like the one's you found.

[wetcoastwillie]

In talking to a farmer here, he said as long as his orchard is fenced, if game gets inside the fence it's legal for him to shoot it.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong.... just what I've been told.

[locdog_99]

well i dont think its good hunting ethics if u kill the deer on your own land and only take half

[rollingrock]

So how were you able to ride on someone's orchards? I thought they were private properties.

[Kirby]

So how were you able to ride on someone's orchards? I thought they were private properties.
being paid to work the orchard means you can drive on it...8) Lucky bugger spends all day scouting while driving his quad around.

Kirby

[Wildfoot]

I work for sterile insect release (SIR), a federal program that works with the apple and pear orchards in the koots and okanagan to combat the cottling moth. Instead of using pesticides, the orchard owners pay extra on their land taxes and SIR releases sterile moths into the orchards so the wild moths do not produce larva. I spend all day driving an ATV around the s. okanagan releasing sterile moths in the orchards. Its a pretty fun job... and its good for the environment and health of the people in these communities! Way less pesticies in the air/water/ground because of this program, and the numbers of wild cottling moths are significantly lower than historical numbers.

Neither of these orchards were fenced. If they shot these deer, both orchards are within osoyoos town boundaries with houses and hotels and campsites within 500m.

[rollingrock]

Sterile insect release? Wow! That's some brand new concept to me. So the moths will be genetically eliminated?:cool:

[Wildfoot]

yah the program has been around since 93. They cannot fully remove the cottling moth because participation is voluntary and washington (which is just accross a barbed wire fence from many orchards) does not participate. And the fruit packing houses trade containers all around the province and with the states.. so moths are always being introduced to the area. But the program has dramatically reduced the populations of moths. most apple and pear orchards do not need sprays for the moth anymore. and since it blocks them at the reproduction stage, the moth cannot become resistant to the sterile moths... unless they start breeding asexually?!!?

[peterrum3]

I agree that it is a waste of meat and the orchard owner should fence the property. A friend of mine has two orchards in Penticton and the bucks used to hammer his graftings, so he fenced it. He just gets the odd one in now but it stopped alot of the frustration for him. He is also an avid hunter and didnt want to have to shoot them needlessly

[Wild Will]

Landowners cannot shoot deer on their private property even if it is fenced. The deer are the property of the crown. Unless the landowner is native, and shooting the deer on traditional hunting grounds, he is breaking the law when he shoots them, and breaking it again by not taking all the edible portions. Report every animal you find, and hopefully the landowners will wake up, and start letting more people hunt their property in lawful seasons.

[Walksalot]

[quote=Wildfoot;173192]I work for sterile insect release (SIR), a federal program that works with the apple and pear orchards in the koots and okanagan to combat the cottling moth. Instead of using pesticides, the orchard owners pay extra on their land taxes and SIR releases sterile moths into the orchards so the wild moths do not produce larva. I spend all day driving an ATV around the s. okanagan releasing sterile moths in the orchards. Its a pretty fun job... and its good for the environment and health of the people in these communities! Way less pesticies in the air/water/ground because of this program, and the numbers of wild cottling moths are significantly lower than historical numbers.

Horse Shit, we are still spraying for the codling moth. What about leafroller, eyespotted bud moth and others. You guys are targeting one pest in a whole host of pests the orchardist has to control. In my opinion the SIR is the biggest crock of shit around. They booted it out of the Kootenays.

[Walksalot]

being paid to work the orchard means you can drive on it...8)
Kirby
I don't think so, if an employee was to drive on my property it would be the last time he/she worked for me.

[Walksalot]

Landowners cannot shoot deer on their private property even if it is fenced. The deer are the property of the crown. Unless the landowner is native, and shooting the deer on traditional hunting grounds, he is breaking the law when he shoots them, and breaking it again by not taking all the edible portions. Report every animal you find, and hopefully the landowners will wake up, and start letting more people hunt their property in lawful seasons.

You are 95% correct. A land owner has no right to shoot any animal on his property unless he/she has tried to get rid of them and if the property isn't fenced then they don't have a leg to stand on. If it is fenced and the owner has tried in vain to protect his/her orchard then under the Right To Farm legislation they have a right to protect their property. I was going to be charged with disturbing the peace as I was using noise maker(shotgun, had a permit) to scare animals off my land. A RCMP Officer came up and when I mentioned Right To Farm he left me alone and wished me good luck.
The animals belong to the crown when they are alive. If found dead on your property then they belong to the land owner.

[Bigbuckadams]

Kill permits for farmers/orchardists are also available for crop protection. Story earlier this year on CHBC about a traumatised lady in Lake Country who witnessed deer being shot/shot at in a fenced in orchard. Everything was legal, the orchardist was allowed to cull "X" amount of deer to protect his trees. I have no clue if they are required to do anything with the carcass ( dispose of, eat??). I hunt above and around several orchards and while I have no problems with someone who does everything the "legal route", I see on average about 10 dead deer/year from what I believe are deer shot in orchards. These deer have been shot in the guts with a shotgun, probably BBB size shot. I believe they do this so the deer makes it out of the orchard and up the hill before dying. I had to put one decent 4 point Muley out of his misery, pus/blood everywhere, one broken leg and couldn't even get out of his bed. Those who go this route are pieces of crap IMHO, but I guess shotgun ammo is cheaper than putting up a deer fence.

[RiverOtter]

being paid to work the orchard means you can drive on it...8) Lucky bugger spends all day scouting while driving his quad around.

Kirby

After word gets around that he was the one who got the C.O.'s involved, work may be a little more scarce in certain orchards.

Don't much care for shooting and leaving deer to rot, but if I depended on an orchard to feed my kids and deer were destroying it, I'm thinking I could be swayed. YMMV.

RO

[Wildfoot]

i dont work for the orchardists. i work for a company that has to go into the orchards to release moths.

plus its the end of the season for my job. if i get fired.. id rather have called in poachers to the CO's than make a few extra bucks. Its not like its hard finding a job in bc right now

[hunter1947]

The land owner proubly had a permit to shoot any deer that come onto there land. It's a shame but the land owner has to make a living and he will do what ever it takes to protect his crop.

[Wildfoot]

Not here in Osoyoos. Both orchards were in town limits. Here is the town by-law for shooting animals within city limits:

3. No person shall discharge a firearm or bow at any time in the municipality.

4. The provisions of this bylaw shall not apply to:

(a) peace officers or conservation officers required to discharge firearms in the line of duty;

(b) the discharge of firearms within or upon a shooting range facility approved in writing by the chief of police, and subject to such conditions and restrictions as may be imposed;

(c) the discharge of firearms within an indoor shooting range when authorized by the chief provincial firearms officer under the Firearm Act;

(d) the discharge of blank ammunition used for athletic or sporting events; or

(e) the discharge of firearms by a person authorized in writing by the Town for the control of wildlife or waterfowl on public property.

5. Any person who violates a provision of this bylaw is liable, on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding two thousand dollars ($2,000.00) or, in default of payment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six (6) months, or both.


you can only get written permission to hunt on public land. No written permission is given for shooting on private land.

Even if they had wanted to get rid of them because they are destroying the crops, they would have to call a CO or RCMP to shoot the animal since citizens cannot discharge any firearm or bow within city limits. EVEN BB GUNS! (luckily i live about 1km from the town boundary!)

[hunter1947]

Not here in Osoyoos. Both orchards were in town limits. Here is the town by-law for shooting animals within city limits:

3. No person shall discharge a firearm or bow at any time in the municipality.

4. The provisions of this bylaw shall not apply to:

(a) peace officers or conservation officers required to discharge firearms in the line of duty;

(b) the discharge of firearms within or upon a shooting range facility approved in writing by the chief of police, and subject to such conditions and restrictions as may be imposed;

(c) the discharge of firearms within an indoor shooting range when authorized by the chief provincial firearms officer under the Firearm Act;

(d) the discharge of blank ammunition used for athletic or sporting events; or

(e) the discharge of firearms by a person authorized in writing by the Town for the control of wildlife or waterfowl on public property.

5. Any person who violates a provision of this bylaw is liable, on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding two thousand dollars ($2,000.00) or, in default of payment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six (6) months, or both.


you can only get written permission to hunt on public land. No written permission is given for shooting on private land.

Even if they had wanted to get rid of them because they are destroying the crops, they would have to call a CO or RCMP to shoot the animal since citizens cannot discharge any firearm or bow within city limits. EVEN BB GUNS! (luckily i live about 1km from the town boundary!) That don't mean crap when your crop is in trouble. They get the go ahead from the Police and CO to put them down. I am not going to mention any names hear , the police and co have given permission to the land owner that i know hear on the island ,they get a special permit to shoot deer on there property ,and this is in the out skirts of Victoria.

[Wildfoot]

well if its by the book then i dont have a problem with it.. except the meat was wasted. I know there are lots of hungery fruitpickers in town that would have loved to have a deer roast for dinner!

Didn't hurt to report it, all that will happen is they will make sure it was done by the book.

[hunter1947]

well if its by the book then i dont have a problem with it.. except the meat was wasted. I know there are lots of hungery fruitpickers in town that would have loved to have a deer roast for dinner!

Didn't hurt to report it, all that will happen is they will make sure it was done by the book.
Yes that is for sure ,but you know what it is all about ,they want to keep it hush ,hush ,so it doesn't get around.

[Wild Will]

You have certainly opened a can of worms with your report of the "poached" deer. Ranchers and farmers in BC seem to have some "rights" that the rest of us find a little shaky. We are not going to solve any of the problems with orchardists and grape growers shooting marauding deer by complaining here. Is it time for us to work with the BCWF on this, or contact our MLA's on it? Remember, the government has a goal to increase the number of hunters, perhaps this is an opportunity to get seasons for junior hunters.

[Walksalot]

You have certainly opened a can of worms with your report of the "poached" deer. Ranchers and farmers in BC seem to have some "rights" that the rest of us find a little shaky. We are not going to solve any of the problems with orchardists and grape growers shooting marauding deer by complaining here. Is it time for us to work with the BCWF on this, or contact our MLA's on it? Remember, the government has a goal to increase the number of hunters, perhaps this is an opportunity to get seasons for junior hunters.

I think what has to happen is to persuade the City Fathers to go from a no hunting bylaw to a no shooting bylaw which will allow hunters to crop off some of these problem animals using archery tackle within city limits.

[bcfarmer]

[QUOTE]Is it time for us to work with the BCWF on this, or contact our MLA's on it? Remember, the government has a goal to increase the number of hunters, perhaps this is an opportunity to get seasons for junior hunters.[/QUOTE

Our local club took this position this spring with the afore mentioned incident in the north okanagan. We wrote letters stating our displeasure with the issuing of kill permits for inside a fenced area. Mr. Harris' response was that this was a special situation.

I am an orchardist and while our orchards are not directly at the base of the mountain, they are in close proximity. We on occasion suffer some deer damage but not enough to fence or shoot the deer. The governments own studies have shown that the only effective way to control deer damage is to fence. I feel it is inappropriate to allow farmers to shoot deer inside a fenced area that on many occasions has been paid for by tax dollars. (the fencing)
Education of orcharist/general public to the benefits of youth/bow seasons would go part way to a solution. But as long as we as humans keep encroaching on wildlife habitat and winter ranges then the problem will not go away.
It is definitely not right for an orchardist/rancher /general public to take things into their own hands. There are different avenues to pursue.

Good on ya Wildfoot for reporting this. It is way better than doing nothing and whining to others later, can of worms or not.

BCF

[Walksalot]

My orchard is totally fenced but where the problem I have is people cutting hole in my fence. For what, I don't know.
Having said that, I forgot to close the gate one night and a doe came in and dropped two fawns. After that I was closing the gate to keep the coyotes from getting the fawns. They stayed for two weeks or so and then I left the gate open and in the morning they were gone. The doe chewed a few trees but it was nothing compared to the enjoyment I got watching the interaction between the doe and fawns.
Having said that, the numbers of deer living and multiplying within city boundaries is really adding up. Like any responsible wildlife management program these deer must be controlled also.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Just drive the road from Penticton to Narramata to get a sence of the damage that deer can do to an orchard or vineyard. You'd be hard pressed to find an orchard or vineyard in that stretch that wasn't high fenced.

This past winter I was yote hunting behind an orchard and found there was a hole in the fence. The place was absolutely crawling with whities! Had to be at least 50.

They don't do as much damage in the summer/fall when there is more feed around but winter is a completely different issue.

Now a herd of 75 head of elk...that's a different story!!

I work for a winery what owns the ranch at the north end of Narramata. They had to put up an electric fence completely around the property.as there used to be ~ 75 elk that would show up in late fall/early winter. They are now someone else's problem:???:.

SSS

[Fisher-Dude]

The Ministry is considering a report by Jeff Morgan "Landowner Enfranchisement to Promote Habitat Stewardship and Access Agreements on Private Land in BC".

From the Morgan report:

Two hunting oriented enfranchisement programs for BC are recommended:

1. A Hunter Access Program is recommended to maintain or enhance hunting opportunities and to address crop loss and contamination issues. The Crown and landowner participants would cooperatively manage hunter access onto enrolled private lands. Hunters would pay access or licence fees that would be used to provide a revenue source for participating landowners. Participating landowners would then be obligated to tolerate specified crop loss levels and to provide access to hunters.

2. A Stewardship Program is recommended to promote landscape level ecological planning and stewardship and establish public access opportunities on private land. Participating landowners would be obligated to participate in the development and execution of a habitat plan and to provide access to hunters in exchange for monetary incentives. Hunter access fees would be streamed to the landowner through a government program This program may be most appropriate in areas where highly desirable big game species (e.g. bighorn sheep) could be used to generate significant revenues.

Through user pay models, both programs would minimise government expenditures. Beyond positive public access and stewardship outcomes, landowner enfranchisement has the potential to increase regional economic opportunities and can generate government revenue through the creation of new hunting opportunities and/or the sale of newly created licences.

Pilot projects are recommended as developmental vanguards. They would provide the learning and consultation opportunities necessary to develop relationships and efficient programs. Multi-stakeholder working groups would develop products and test assumptions in a ‘real world’ environment and evaluate the feasibility of various enfranchisement options.