New Tag System what is stoping people from cheating

[PartyMarty]

Hi Guy's

I am curious about the new tag system compared to old book of tags in regards to people cheating. For example

Guy goes and buys 2 white tail tags, Heads up to rock creek nails a female, cuts his tag drives home. Next day drives back up and shoots another doe on the other tag.

What stops this from happening?

The old book with numbered pages seem like it made this much more difficult.

I personally would never do the above but I bet it has crossed plenty of people's mind!!

Marty

[RyoTHC]

Are you not allowed two WT doe? So in that situation nothing illegal? Pretty sure the system won't sell you more tags than you can legally shoot, but I've been wrong before ha ha.

[russm]

Pretty sure they knocked whitetails back down to one doe.

[Salty]

With the bar code they bring up your file showing everything about you including how many WT tags you've bought this year or with the old book system they could flip through and see how many you have. I don't see any difference other than now with the bar code they have all your info and history instantly. Bottom line though if some one's going to poach they're going to poach no matter what the system is.

[one-shot-wonder]

COs have the digital scanning opportunities to verify what tags have been purchased yes, but how can they confirm which tags have been cancelled? The said tag might be at the residence accompanying the animal....

[PKernohan]

Yup, CO looks up your hunter number sees you have purchased 2 WT tags...asks to see them both. It wouldn't look too good if unable to produce both tags.

[steveo]

The big difference that I see is the tags are loose so much easier to lose one or two then you will need to go buy another one or two. It will be easier for some to have taken game on the tags they have lost and go buy a couple more under the excuse they lost them.

[Gateholio]

Withthe old booklet, nothing prevented a poacher from buying 3 deer tags, filling them all, then saying that he lost his booklet and getting replacement tags. There is always a way to cheat a system.

[dougan]

What he is saying is you could cheat by shooting a doe cut tag leave said tag at home and go shoot a second doe and cut tag as dow while only having one tag in possetion . I see his point

[one-shot-wonder]

Or cancel a mule deer tag in a certain region, then go back the next weekend and take a 2nd mule buck in that same region without evidence of the first cut tag on them. Both trips home with the deer show a legal cancelled tag. Without a tag book or a requirement to be in possession of all cancelled tags it is difficult to combat this unethical behaviour.

[Salty]

What he is saying is you could cheat by shooting a doe cut tag leave said tag at home and go shoot a second doe and cut tag as dow while only having one tag in possetion . I see his point

They'd see that he has two tags and ask to see the other if he couldn't produce it he'd have some explaining to do, and the check stop would become an investigation.

[Whonnock Boy]

I was stopped twice while hunting moose in region 6 this year. Neither time did they look at the tags. I even asked the first CO if he wanted to look after handing the booklet back. Didn’t care which I found odd.

[dougan]

They'd see that he has two tags and ask to see the other if he couldn't produce it he'd have some explaining to do, and the check stop would become an investigation.
Why would you say that? Where does it say you need to carry all purchased tags on one self all of the time? Do you know this as fact or are you just guessing? Reason I ask is I asked many questions while buying tags not once was this brought to my attention

[dabber]

And with this cold weather coming you can use your tag to scrape the frost off your truck windows.

[one-shot-wonder]

Is it stated somewhere that hunter must be in possession of all tags at all times?

"A person must not possess more than 15 of
any current year deer licences. The combination
of deer licences may include a maximum of 3
mule deer and 3 white-tailed deer licences."

[LupieHunter]

The online system will not allow more than the legal bag limit of tags to be purchased by said account. Ex: moose or elk bag limit is one, so the online system will only allow one tag to be purchased for each per licensed hunter/account. Badically you can't go buy a replacement if you loose it. It also won't allow any tags to be purchased if no license has been purchased.

[HarryToolips]

Are you not allowed two WT doe? So in that situation nothing illegal? Pretty sure the system won't sell you more tags than you can legally shoot, but I've been wrong before ha ha.
Two WT doe is the limit for region 3, but for the other regions with an antlerless WT season, the bag limit is one..

[Surrey Boy]

Withthe old booklet, nothing prevented a poacher from buying 3 deer tags, filling them all, then saying that he lost his booklet and getting replacement tags. There is always a way to cheat a system.

^^
Pretty much. Any system can be gamed.

[twoSevenO]

Why would you say that? Where does it say you need to carry all purchased tags on one self all of the time? Do you know this as fact or are you just guessing? Reason I ask is I asked many questions while buying tags not once was this brought to my attention

You don't have to carry all purchased tags on you. But there is a law that states you must produce, upon request, all tags you purchased that season. I forget the law code, so you'll have to look it up.

[Darksith]

Something for them to tweak moving forward with the new system...make you carry all purchased tags at all times, or register a punched tag online...it could be one or the other, so if you haven't registered the punched tag online then you are obligated to carry it on you.

Registration online of cut tags could also reduce or eliminate the hunter survey they send out, although that does cover unsuccessful hunts as well...

[Ryo]

Something for them to tweak moving forward with the new system...make you carry all purchased tags at all times, or register a punched tag online...it could be one or the other, so if you haven't registered the punched tag online then you are obligated to carry it on you.

Registering punched tags online (with a lenient deadline, like compulsory reporting) would also serve to give a better survey (presumably at a smaller cost) of hunter harvest than their current random sampling.

[Swissrallyman]

I just had a co tell me that you have to carry all the tags you purchased with you at all times when out hunting regarless of weather they were cancelled or not.

[IronNoggin]

I just had a co tell me that you have to carry all the tags you purchased with you at all times when out hunting regarless of weather they were cancelled or not.

He Lied. You do not.

Cheers,
Nog

[Wild one]

Withthe old booklet, nothing prevented a poacher from buying 3 deer tags, filling them all, then saying that he lost his booklet and getting replacement tags. There is always a way to cheat a system.

This is true and reality is there is always a way to cheat

Heard many tricks guys use over the years

[Xenomorph]

Withthe old booklet, nothing prevented a poacher from buying 3 deer tags, filling them all, then saying that he lost his booklet and getting replacement tags. There is always a way to cheat a system.

What he said.

It happened once in the past that I couldn't find my booklet anywhere. Drove all the way up to Squamish to replace them, only to step out of the Service Canada and receive a call from my better half that my daughter had seen them on the bed when I was packing up and "relieved" me of the booklet to play with it. Went back in to "return" tags and was told "Good luck, void them and keep as souvenir".

[Wild one]

He Lied. You do not.

Cheers,
Nog

Some COs lack knowledge I imagine there are a few that are just winging it with how these new tags work

[Gateholio]

I just had a co tell me that you have to carry all the tags you purchased with you at all times when out hunting regarless of weather they were cancelled or not.

I hope not. I bought 2 deer tags and a bear tag eariler this year, to be prepared in advance. Went to go hunting the other day and can't find them! :)

I've got another deer tag on the way, hopefully the others will turn up.

[RyoTHC]

Two WT doe is the limit for region 3, but for the other regions with an antlerless WT season, the bag limit is one..



Good point, I guess I should freshen up on the provincial regulations and not just zone 3 where I spend all my time. Cheers.

[Cub Driver]

From Gov't web site.
Species licences


Each species licence now has a barcode that is linked to your Fish and Wildlife profile.
You must carry your species licence with you at all times while hunting.
Your FWID must appear on your species licence.
You must notch your species licence to cancel it as soon as you harvest an animal.
If you buy your species licence online, it will be mailed to you. You cannot buy a species licence online and pick it up in-person. If you want to hunt within a few days of buying your species licence, you should buy it at a vendor or at any Service BC or FrontCounter BC location.
Some species licences require a two-day waiting period before they can be used. The 48-hour waiting period begins at 12:01 am the day AFTER you buy your licence. For example, if you buy a licence at 10:00 am on November 1, the two-day waiting period ends at 12:01 am on November 4.

This is similar to the old licence, as species licence were alway with hunting licence booklet. I would suggest that both cancelled and uncancelled species license should be with you as long as there is a open season for the species you have a licence for.

[Salty]

Why would you say that? Where does it say you need to carry all purchased tags on one self all of the time? Do you know this as fact or are you just guessing? Reason I ask is I asked many questions while buying tags not once was this brought to my attention

It would be pretty lazy policing if they were going to check you out and didn't ask. They spend a lot more time thinking through how laws might be broken than we do and its their job to investigate. You can be sure that policy about the new changes and what to check have been in the training. The few times I've been checked its been 3 or 4 questions/requests to see stuff relating to different parts of the rules its very likely they'd ask to see all your tags that's all I'm saying. Of course they may not ask to see anything either they have a lot of leeway as has always been the case.

dabber- no shit eh? stiff little buggers and hard to cut with a dull knife. lol

[bighornbob]

From Gov't web site.
Species licences


Each species licence now has a barcode that is linked to your Fish and Wildlife profile.
You must carry your species licence with you at all times while hunting.
Your FWID must appear on your species licence.
You must notch your species licence to cancel it as soon as you harvest an animal.
If you buy your species licence online, it will be mailed to you. You cannot buy a species licence online and pick it up in-person. If you want to hunt within a few days of buying your species licence, you should buy it at a vendor or at any Service BC or FrontCounter BC location.
Some species licences require a two-day waiting period before they can be used. The 48-hour waiting period begins at 12:01 am the day AFTER you buy your licence. For example, if you buy a licence at 10:00 am on November 1, the two-day waiting period ends at 12:01 am on November 4.

This is similar to the old licence, as species licence were alway with hunting licence booklet. I would suggest that both cancelled and uncancelled species license should be with you as long as there is a open season for the species you have a licence for.

According to that I don't have to have the tag if I'm not hunting. For example I shot a moose two weeks ago. Cancelled my tag. I'm not hunting moose anymore so I can remove that tag from my wallet.

BHB

[Drillbit]

If people want to cheat, they will.

[HappyJack]

There are always some people that will try to work around the regulations. Pretty easy to do if you put a little thought into it.

[one-shot-wonder]

According to that I don't have to have the tag if I'm not hunting. For example I shot a moose two weeks ago. Cancelled my tag. I'm not hunting moose anymore so I can remove that tag from my wallet.

BHB

Eggzactly....


If people want to cheat, they will.

Poachers will continue to do their thing, lets not make it easier on slob hunters by having avoidable loop holes in the system

[Drillbit]

Eggzactly....



Poachers will continue to do their thing, lets not make it easier on slob hunters by having avoidable loop holes in the system

I've seen many different ways of doing tags in different provinces and states.

The BC booklet and the new tags are a joke if someone wants to cheat it.

The best ones are the stickers that get DNA all over them. But even then, if people want to cheat they will just get someone else to tag it.

BC is way behind. Look at our tags, our LEH system, and our conservation and management resources. And then all the other issues......

[Surrey Boy]

I hope there's no timely way for them to verify my Status Card.

[Wild one]

I've seen many different ways of doing tags in different provinces and states.

The BC booklet and the new tags are a joke if someone wants to cheat it.

The best ones are the stickers that get DNA all over them. But even then, if people want to cheat they will just get someone else to tag it.

BC is way behind. Look at our tags, our LEH system, and our conservation and management resources. And then all the other issues......

Agree BC is way behind in many ways

when the new tag system came out it was a big wtf. BC had to do a half ars job and try to be original rather then adapt one of the proven effective systems used elsewhere

[bigredchev]

Ok, what systems are available? I have never hunted out of province and am curious to know?


I know Alberta has excellent timeliness on LEH

[bc7mm]

I Doubt the type of system will change the amount of illegal animals taken. Cheating is poaching, those inclined to do so will continue to do so regardless of any change in the tag system.

Harshness of penalties, and increased enforcement will make a difference

[antlerking]

I would like to see tags that physically have to be attached to the animals in order to see wether that animal was actually tagged and what region. Was that animal actually tagged? Only hunter knows unless checked by C/O

[Bernie O]

My biggest complaint is the size of the tags. If they were the size of a credit card you could easily carry them in your wallet. I have left my cancelled tag at home but if it fit I would carry it.

[Salty]

I Doubt the type of system will change the amount of illegal animals taken. Cheating is poaching, those inclined to do so will continue to do so regardless of any change in the tag system.


This ^ Really don't see the new tags creating any loopholes that will make poachers be poachers. They'll cheat the old system, this system, or any other system irregardless. With this new system and all the what ifs and why nots being posted here, I'll still be the guy packing all my tags and not playing some I left the other at home story don't need that agro and the CO doesn't need the bs either. iirc I was told at point of purchase we're supposed to pack all tags.

[Gateholio]

I would like to see tags that physically have to be attached to the animals in order to see wether that animal was actually tagged and what region. Was that animal actually tagged? Only hunter knows unless checked by C/O

That's so 1960's....:)

[Surrey Boy]

I Doubt the type of system will change the amount of illegal animals taken. Cheating is poaching, those inclined to do so will continue to do so regardless of any change in the tag system.

Harshness of penalties, and increased enforcement will make a difference

You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. No point in combing through resident hunters when Status Indians massacre the population. Save the money on LEOs and let the inevitable play out.

[bigredchev]

That's so 1960's....:)

I do like this idea. Simple and I'm sure easier for meat cutters and taxidermists a like.

Also easier to transport a friends meat in a convoy etc.

[finngun]

If i have tagged 1 deer already,,,and i have new same species tag,,,do i have to have used tag with me if i am checked?

[Gateholio]

Tags attached to the animal is a horrible idea. There is no good reason for it, and plenty of reasons not to. Thankfully, they did get that part right when they introduced the new system. :)

[antlerking]

I guess keeping everyone honest is terrible , why do people harvest animals in one region and "camp" in another?

[Surrey Boy]

I guess keeping everyone honest is terrible , why do people harvest animals in one region and "camp" in another?

I'll be honest with government when the government is honest with me. Until then it's just a game we play.

[Elkhound]

Wait till people make a copy of their tag and print off one of their own. Bar code will still scan.

[blackford]

I agree that the tags are silly. First thing.... after shooting a animal and being on the side of the mountain its crap to have to cut a small notch on the tag. its silly and a lot harder. THey should make punchers that make the job easier. I have had friends who have cut multiple regions or days because of the intricate cutting you need to do.

secondly. the whole tag system.... So if I am stopped and I scammed the system it would be easy to tell the C.O that I had both tags but one must of fell out when I cut the tag... Lets go back to the kill site to find the tag... ( obviously the other tag is at home or shredded.... ) we don't find the tag at the kill site.. now what. I think it should be a booklet as it was. but one page per species. Something gets put on the page and you have to punch out a hole . If you lose your hunting book its a expense fee to get it back...

To much BS is happening out there. its 2017 ..... we can make it harder to cheat.. just my 2 cents

[HappyJack]

I agree that the tags are silly. First thing.... after shooting a animal and being on the side of the mountain its crap to have to cut a small notch on the tag. its silly and a lot harder. THey should make punchers that make the job easier. I have had friends who have cut multiple regions or days because of the intricate cutting you need to do.

secondly. the whole tag system.... So if I am stopped and I scammed the system it would be easy to tell the C.O that I had both tags but one must of fell out when I cut the tag... Lets go back to the kill site to find the tag... ( obviously the other tag is at home or shredded.... ) we don't find the tag at the kill site.. now what. I think it should be a booklet as it was. but one page per species. Something gets put on the page and you have to punch out a hole . If you lose your hunting book its a expense fee to get it back...

To much BS is happening out there. its 2017 ..... we can make it harder to cheat.. just my 2 cents

I have a small gerber multi tool it's only about 1 1/2" long and has a tiny pair of scissors that work excellent for cutting our tags. Sort of like this >>> https://www.knifecenter.com/item/GB31001134/Gerber-Dime-Micro-Multi-Tool-Black

[finngun]

When i get a secend mule tag..after using first one..do i have to carry used one with me..while hunting?

[russm]

[QUOTE=blackford;1949124]I agree that the tags are silly. First thing.... after shooting a animal and being on the side of the mountain its crap to have to cut a small notch on the tag. its silly and a lot harder. THey should make punchers that make the job easier. I have had friends who have cut multiple regions or days because of the intricate cutting you need to do.

whats intricate about cutting a small notch? It's no different than the booklet, set it on a log and use your knife, takes about 20 seconds, you want to have to buy a special government supplied hole punch? What's so import that you can't take less than a minute to cut 4 notches out? Lol

[Gateholio]

Nechako Outdoors has little wallets that fit the tags perfectly. I think they sell them for not much or give them away when you make a purchase from them. And of course a little ziploc works well. Keep all your tags handy.

[Salty]

I'll be honest with government when the government is honest with me. Until then it's just a game we play.

So you poach game then? Or are you off topic hard to tell.

[boxhitch]

Nechako Outdoors has little wallets that fit the tags perfectly. I think they sell them for not much or give them away when you make a purchase from them. And of course a little ziploc works well. Keep all your tags handy.Backcountry in FSJ gives them out with tags, along with the reminder that the CO's will be asking for PALs at the same time as tags with fines for failing to produce

Guys who have troubles with cutting a notch in the BC tags probably have trouble colouring inside the lines too )

[boxhitch]

So you poach game then? Or are you off topic hard to tell.Just living in the grey area maybe )

[HappyJack]

I wonder how many people they catch driving around with last years spike fork rack...or 4pt rack??

[Surrey Boy]

So you poach game then? Or are you off topic hard to tell.

General cynicism and animosity.

Haven't poached any game yet.

[russm]

I wonder how many people they catch driving around with last years spike fork rack...or 4pt rack??

lol, it's pretty easy to tell if a rack is fresh or a year old.

[HappyJack]

lol, it's pretty easy to tell if a rack is fresh or a year old.

The rack could have been frozen with hair on it....or perhaps it's just the antlers with no skullcap. NO way to tell the difference.

[Gateholio]

The rack could have been frozen with hair on it....or perhaps it's just the antlers with no skullcap. NO way to tell the difference.

When you start getting into pre meditated poaching like that- ensuring you have forzen last years rack to use to illegally kill stuff- then it doesn't really matter what type of tag system we use, or any other regulations for that matter. :)

[Drillbit]

The rack could have been frozen with hair on it....or perhaps it's just the antlers with no skullcap. NO way to tell the difference.


DNA test will tell the diff pretty fast.

Not sure if BC is on that train yet (other then the CI's), but it's a pretty effective tool.

[Wild one]

Always away to cheat if that is ones intent

issues with the new system in my opinion is it's less convenient for legal hunters then systems in place elsewhere

[HappyJack]

When you start getting into pre meditated poaching like that- ensuring you have forzen last years rack to use to illegally kill stuff- then it doesn't really matter what type of tag system we use, or any other regulations for that matter. :)

That's right, there are ways to circumvent the system and I imagine there are people that have no issue at all doing just that. It's just too bad the govt doesn't at least make a little effort to stop some of the easier cheats.