Using E-bikes to hunt sheep

[Highlander Hunting]

Hey all, if any of you are curious about using e-bikes for hunting, there is a new episode of Highlander Hunting Podcast that we talk about exactly that. We used fat tire e-bikes to access our sheep hunting spot.
It's a game changer for certain areas here in Alberta where they're shutting down OHV access.

Hope you enjoy.
www.highlanderhunting.podbean.com
Highlander Hunting on Itunes and Google Play.

Cheers.
John

[swampthing]

I think here in BC an e-bike is also not allowed in motor vehicle restricted areas. The electric motor is still a motor. I am not 100% sure about this though?

[Mtn Wonderer]

I Think E bikes are considered offroad MV, in the regs.
I just was in the East koots a week back and the sign said horse back or on foot only.

[Darksith]

motor is a motor.

[TexasWalker]

Power assisted bikes are not considered motorized vehicles.

[steepNdeep]

Looks like electric motors are ILLEGAL in BC in road closures. You could attach a kite to your mountain bike, tho'... lol They can be used where you can use an ATV or dirt bike.

Here is the definition from the REGS:

Motor Vehicle - means a device in, on or by which a person or thing is being or may be transported or drawn, and which is designed to be self propelled, and includes an ATV or snowmobile, but does not include a device designed to be moved by human, animal or wind power; a device designed to be used exclusively on stationary rails or stationary tracks; or a boat propelled by motorized power.

[PKernohan]

They way I read that, an Ebike is perfectly legal. As long as the bike has the pedals attached your fine, as the bike is designed to be moved by a human, the motor is merely an assist.

Same thing with those cheap electric scooters that you see crackheads often cruising around on. As long as they leave the pedals attached to them they can cruise around the roads using bike lanes and they don't need to be licensed. Take the pedals off however and It's now technically a motor vehicle.

[Dannybuoy]

Looks like electric motors are ILLEGAL in BC in road closures. You could attach a kite to your mountain bike, tho'... lol They can be used where you can use an ATV or dirt bike.

Here is the definition from the REGS:

Motor Vehicle - means a device in, on or by which a person or thing is being or may be transported or drawn, and which is designed to be self propelled, and includes an ATV or snowmobile, but does not include a device designed to be moved by human, animal or wind power; a device designed to be used exclusively on stationary rails or stationary tracks; or a boat propelled by motorized power.
Huh ? It says does NOT include a device designed to be moved by human ...... an e- assist bike will just sit there if you don't pedal .

[Ron.C]

This subject was just beat to death in another thread. But as per most other topics, people have varying opinions and lots of "this person told me", and I heard from a CO that.." type of answers.

I sent my original email to the Conservation Officer Service and guess what, they forwarded my question to a Policy Analyst that is employed by the Ministry of Forests, Lands, and Natural Resource Operations.

Read the response below and it is clear that this is a legal grey area. That said, take note of the analysts interpretation. You may very well use your ebike and get away with it in a VCA, but you may also find yourself standing in-front of a judge being the first one charged.


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________
From: RON XXXXX
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 6:38 AM
To: Conservation Officer Service ENV:EX
Subject: Definition of a Motor Vehicle (E-Bikes in Vehicle Closure Areas)



Good Morning,

Could you please provide me with some clarification on the definition of Motor Vehicle in the BC Hunting and Trapping Synopsis. More specifically, how battery powered E-bikes/scooter are interpreted under this definition.

Is a mountain bike that has a battery pack/electric motor or "e-bike" fall under the definition of a motor vehicle? And can they be used inside Vehicle closed areas? These bikes can be propelled by human pedal power or propelled solely by an electric motor. The same question for battery powered scooters that can be propelled by pedals?

I frequently backpack or mountain bike into vehicle closure areas to access backcountry hunting and I'd like to find out the correct interpretation and not speculate.

Very much appreciated

Ron CrXXX




Hello Ron,

Thank you for your email dated August 4, 2017, regarding the use of E-bikes within areas where the operation of motor vehicles are restricted. Your enquiry has been forwarded to me for response.

In the provincial Wildlife Act a Motor Vehicle is defined as:

"motor vehicle" means a device in, on or by which a person or thing is being or may be transported or drawn, and which is designed to be self propelled, and includes an atv or snowmobile, but does not include
(a) a device designed to be moved by human, animal or wind power,
(b) a device designed to be used exclusively on stationary rails or stationary tracks, or
(c) a boat propelled by motorized power;

E-bikes are not specifically referenced in this definition, and to my knowledge there has been no precedence set through the courts on the subject, as such it is difficult to provide a clear answer to your question. This response is solely based on my interpretation of the regulation as it is currently written.

E-bikes are designed to be both self propelled and moved by human power; they meet the definition of a motor vehicle (designed to be self propelled), and are not included in the definition of motor vehicle (a device designed to be moved by human power). I don’t think the law makers of the day considered that devices would be designed in the future that both meet and are excluded from the definition. Further complicating the matter are the various designs of E-bikes/scooters and their relative reliance on either battery or human power.

There are variables that could be factors in determining whether these types of vehicles could be used within an area subject to motor vehicle restrictions/prohibitions. For example, if a bike is not capable of propelling itself without the use of human power (i.e. the battery is charged by the rotation of the pedals) it may not be considered “self propelled” and may not meet the definition of a motor vehicle. However, if a bike does not require human assistance to move it (i.e. the battery is charged at home and the pedals simply augment the movement of the bike) it could be considered “self propelled” and meet the definition of a motor vehicle.

I’ve used terms like “may” and “could” liberally, as described above there is no clear reference to these types of devices in the Wildlife Act. However, I’ll take the liberty of more certainty when speaking to the objectives of these motor vehicle regulations. There are numerous types of motor vehicle restrictions/prohibitions in the province, but they can be put into two categories: year round/seasonal motor vehicle prohibitions and motor vehicle prohibitions for the purpose of hunting.

Generally (if not always) a full prohibition on the use of motor vehicles, either seasonally or year round, is in place to protect habitat. These can apply to specific lines (i.e. roads, trails) or polygons (i.e. watersheds, alpine areas). Whenever operating a vehicle/device in the province the operator should be These hybrid vehicles probably don’t compromise the objective of these regulations to any great extent, provided the device is operated in a manner that takes habitat values (soils, vegetation, etc.) into consideration.

The rational for Motor Vehicle for Hunting Closed Areas is generally social or to reduce harvest pressure in a specific area. In some areas access has increased in recent years which makes wildlife more vulnerable, motor vehicle for hunting closures are a tool in these situations to reduce hunter access into these areas that were previously inaccessible by a motor vehicle. They are also in place to provide a diversity of hunting experiences (i.e. a road where they can walk, bike, or horseback into without seeing a quad every couple of kms). These E-bikes may compromise the objective of these regulations.

It is my recommendation that an E-bike not be used in areas where motor vehicles are prohibited or restricted, however I am unable to state whether they are prohibited by law.

Regards,


Regulations and Policy Analyst|Fish & Wildlife Branch|Ministry of Forests, Lands, and Natural Resource Operations|

[Dannybuoy]

Good one Ron C , that basically confirms that e assist bikes would be legal while electric motor powered bikes more likely than not would be illegal .

[Highlander Hunting]

They're definitely a legal grey area. And a moral grey area for some. But it was interesting using one. It sure wasn't as easy as I thought it would be tho.

Cheers.
John
highlanderhunting.podbean.com

[smoothbor]

The pedal assist are not considered a MV bob as you still need to pedal the bike this has been beat up on here and other sites before. I believe Ourea has knowledge on this topic

[rocksteady]

"E-bikes are not specifically referenced in this definition, and to my knowledge there has been no precedence set through the courts on the subject..."

Who wants to be the first to challenge it??

[Bugle M In]

"E-bikes are not specifically referenced in this definition, and to my knowledge there has been no precedence set through the courts on the subject..."

Who wants to be the first to challenge it??

sure as s*** ain't going to be me!!!!
And, if I could afford that bike (at least the "Specialized" brand models), I would buy a ATV first.
There F'n expensive, Dunbar Cycles, full suspension models run 6500.00 to 8000.00:shock:
I think I will stick to the bike I have for now.....
that's a rich mans toy!

[rocksteady]

sure as s*** ain't going to be me!!!!
And, if I could afford that bike (at least the "Specialized" brand models), I would buy a ATV first.
There F'n expensive, Dunbar Cycles, full suspension models run 6500.00 to 8000.00:shock:
I think I will stick to the bike I have for now.....
that's a rich mans toy!


And common sense prevails... :)

[Dannybuoy]

"E-bikes are not specifically referenced in this definition, and to my knowledge there has been no precedence set through the courts on the subject..."

Who wants to be the first to challenge it??
I seriously doubt that there would be any charges for using an e assist bike .... it almost makes me want to get one �� .
If you read the response that Ron got it very clearly states that it is not included if powered by human , animal or wind .
So rock ... common sense has once again been ignored .... and a simple situation made to sound complicated .

[huntcoop]

I surprised that the answer from the COS was not overly clear and concise :roll:

[rocksteady]

I seriously doubt that there would be any charges for using an e assist bike .... it almost makes me want to get one �� .
If you read the response that Ron got it very clearly states that it is not included if powered by human , animal or wind .
So rock ... common sense has once again been ignored .... and a simple situation made to sound complicated .

So the advice from the CO Service said its grey.... They said it has not been challenged in court... Lets say you buy one and try it.. You get caught by CO who sees it more black and white.. Then you get charges, probably the bike seized, then a long drawn out court process, you will probably have to hire a lawyer.... and in the end its up to the judge to decide IF its black or white? You may lose, you may have the bike forfeited...

That does not seem like common sense being ignored....

What I am saying is you state " I seriously doubt that there would be any charge..." Why take the risk, sit back long enough and some FOOL will try it and then see how the courts play it out before you go down that road (figuratively and physically)...

Nothing wrong with being a pioneer or a trend setter, but maybe not on this one..

[jtred]

It is my recommendation that an E-bike not be used in areas where motor vehicles are prohibited or restricted, however I am unable to state whether they re prohibited by law.


Regulations and Policy Analyst|Fish & Wildlife Branch|Ministry of Forests, Lands, and Natural Resource Operations|[/QUOTE]
To my way of thinking he answers the question, albeit in a round about way, relatively clearly. It looks to me like this is already being discussed. Then again maybe it's just his interpretation. I'll stick to backpacking though and save my pennies for a fly-in Stone's Sheep/Caribou hunt.

[REMINGTON JIM]

This subject was just beat to death in another thread. But as per most other topics, people have varying opinions and lots of "this person told me", and I heard from a CO that.." type of answers.

I sent my original email to the Conservation Officer Service and guess what, they forwarded my question to a Policy Analyst that is employed by the Ministry of Forests, Lands, and Natural Resource Operations.

Read the response below and it is clear that this is a legal grey area. That said, take note of the analysts interpretation. You may very well use your ebike and get away with it in a VCA, but you may also find yourself standing in-front of a judge being the first one charged.


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________
From: RON XXXXX
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 6:38 AM
To: Conservation Officer Service ENV:EX
Subject: Definition of a Motor Vehicle (E-Bikes in Vehicle Closure Areas)



Good Morning,

Could you please provide me with some clarification on the definition of Motor Vehicle in the BC Hunting and Trapping Synopsis. More specifically, how battery powered E-bikes/scooter are interpreted under this definition.

Is a mountain bike that has a battery pack/electric motor or "e-bike" fall under the definition of a motor vehicle? And can they be used inside Vehicle closed areas? These bikes can be propelled by human pedal power or propelled solely by an electric motor. The same question for battery powered scooters that can be propelled by pedals?

I frequently backpack or mountain bike into vehicle closure areas to access backcountry hunting and I'd like to find out the correct interpretation and not speculate.

Very much appreciated

Ron CrXXX




Hello Ron,

Thank you for your email dated August 4, 2017, regarding the use of E-bikes within areas where the operation of motor vehicles are restricted. Your enquiry has been forwarded to me for response.

In the provincial Wildlife Act a Motor Vehicle is defined as:

"motor vehicle" means a device in, on or by which a person or thing is being or may be transported or drawn, and which is designed to be self propelled, and includes an atv or snowmobile, but does not include
(a) a device designed to be moved by human, animal or wind power,
(b) a device designed to be used exclusively on stationary rails or stationary tracks, or
(c) a boat propelled by motorized power;

E-bikes are not specifically referenced in this definition, and to my knowledge there has been no precedence set through the courts on the subject, as such it is difficult to provide a clear answer to your question. This response is solely based on my interpretation of the regulation as it is currently written.

E-bikes are designed to be both self propelled and moved by human power; they meet the definition of a motor vehicle (designed to be self propelled), and are not included in the definition of motor vehicle (a device designed to be moved by human power). I don’t think the law makers of the day considered that devices would be designed in the future that both meet and are excluded from the definition. Further complicating the matter are the various designs of E-bikes/scooters and their relative reliance on either battery or human power.

There are variables that could be factors in determining whether these types of vehicles could be used within an area subject to motor vehicle restrictions/prohibitions. For example, if a bike is not capable of propelling itself without the use of human power (i.e. the battery is charged by the rotation of the pedals) it may not be considered “self propelled” and may not meet the definition of a motor vehicle. However, if a bike does not require human assistance to move it (i.e. the battery is charged at home and the pedals simply augment the movement of the bike) it could be considered “self propelled” and meet the definition of a motor vehicle.

I’ve used terms like “may” and “could” liberally, as described above there is no clear reference to these types of devices in the Wildlife Act. However, I’ll take the liberty of more certainty when speaking to the objectives of these motor vehicle regulations. There are numerous types of motor vehicle restrictions/prohibitions in the province, but they can be put into two categories: year round/seasonal motor vehicle prohibitions and motor vehicle prohibitions for the purpose of hunting.

Generally (if not always) a full prohibition on the use of motor vehicles, either seasonally or year round, is in place to protect habitat. These can apply to specific lines (i.e. roads, trails) or polygons (i.e. watersheds, alpine areas). Whenever operating a vehicle/device in the province the operator should be These hybrid vehicles probably don’t compromise the objective of these regulations to any great extent, provided the device is operated in a manner that takes habitat values (soils, vegetation, etc.) into consideration.

The rational for Motor Vehicle for Hunting Closed Areas is generally social or to reduce harvest pressure in a specific area. In some areas access has increased in recent years which makes wildlife more vulnerable, motor vehicle for hunting closures are a tool in these situations to reduce hunter access into these areas that were previously inaccessible by a motor vehicle. They are also in place to provide a diversity of hunting experiences (i.e. a road where they can walk, bike, or horseback into without seeing a quad every couple of kms). These E-bikes may compromise the objective of these regulations.

It is my recommendation that an E-bike not be used in areas where motor vehicles are prohibited or restricted, however I am unable to state whether they are prohibited by law.

Regards,


Regulations and Policy Analyst|Fish & Wildlife Branch|Ministry of Forests, Lands, and Natural Resource Operations|

Guess WHAT no JUDGE is going to Convict you with that answer from a BC Gov Office THEY don't even know themselves WTF is the REAL answer! Take your chances with the Judge He will be your Friend ! More Proof our CO dept is RUN poorly and this is BIT of a JOKE ! :sad: jmo RJ

[Dannybuoy]

Guess WHAT no JUDGE is going to Convict you with that answer from a BC Gov Office THEY don't even know themselves WTF is the REAL answer! Take your chances with the Judge He will be your Friend ! More Proof our CO dept is RUN poorly and this is BIT of a JOKE ! :sad: jmo RJ
AND that response is to an e bike .... a e-assist bike will not move without human power so there is no grey area .

[Bugle M In]

Oreau had a response similar to the one that is on here......
what him and I both agreed with is....''the ministry has to kick this into gear, and have something "definitive written"
in the regs, on e-bikes asap....
The ministry knows they exist...but again...fail to make a decision once and for all (notice I said "for all"...lol)...
they know about...yet do what they do best in the ministry..."squat"!!!!
Really make you wonder why they even have jobs......doesn't sound like they ever do anything in there...

[HighCountryBC]

So the advice from the CO Service said its grey.... They said it has not been challenged in court... Lets say you buy one and try it.. You get caught by CO who sees it more black and white.. Then you get charges, probably the bike seized, then a long drawn out court process, you will probably have to hire a lawyer.... and in the end its up to the judge to decide IF its black or white? You may lose, you may have the bike forfeited...

That does not seem like common sense being ignored....

What I am saying is you state " I seriously doubt that there would be any charge..." Why take the risk, sit back long enough and some FOOL will try it and then see how the courts play it out before you go down that road (figuratively and physically)...

Nothing wrong with being a pioneer or a trend setter, but maybe not on this one..

This topic has been beaten to death. Power-assisted E-bikes are perfectly legal in road closures.

Nothing grey about it.

[Highlander Hunting]

In my opinion, after using one to 21 km's into backcountry for a sheep trip.
The pedal assist definitely makes life a little easier, but a motorized vehicle in the sense we all understand that to mean, and what they had in mind when they made the laws, it's no motor vehicle.
But we'll see if the laws catch up to available technology......

Cheers.
John
www.highlanderhunting.podbean.com

[steepNdeep]

Huh ? It says does NOT include a device designed to be moved by human ...... an e- assist bike will just sit there if you don't pedal .

I've never seen an e-assist bike & don't really GAF. Maybe, you should put your money where your mouth is... Buy 1 of those ghey bikes, get busted by a CO riding into a MV closure, take it through court & set a precedent. ;

[wiggy]

I've never seen an e-assist bike & don't really GAF. Maybe, you should put your money where your mouth is... Buy 1 of those ghey bikes, get busted by a CO riding into a MV closure, take it through court & set a precedent. ;
Places you can use them places you cant
Some closures say right on them No Bicycles. Some don’t
I use mine where I can. Never had a problem
CO didn’t say anything about it as where I was bicycles are allowed

[dougan]

Sounds like a pain in the ass to me . Two feet and a heartbeat wear out some boots

[okas]

electric motor on the boat loaded gun in boat 175$ even when boat is on the shore . not going to court for 175$ :roll:

[Highlander Hunting]

Yep, that was my take away after giving it a try.
Since we rented them and they're worth $5K a piece, I found myself always wondering if the bike was OK, not being eaten by porcupines, mice, grizz, etc.