Stewart Lake CO,s and tickets

[northernbc]

While at Stewart lake fishing with the wife I met a fellow there who was out hunting and camping at the lake. On the day he arrived he took his rifle (unloaded) jumped on his quad with his chainsaw and headed out for some firewood. He told me that he found a tree stopped and got ready to fall it. He decided to load his rifle as there was a lot of bear sign there. After loading it he leaned the rifle against one tire of the quad. After falling the tree he was bucking up the tree and a co stopped and ticked him for a loaded firearm in a vehicle. Bloody rubbish. I saw the same co later and talked to him about discretion and intent. But the co was very happy with what he did. Poor job judgement.

[walks with deer]

I have heard of this in the past...its a chicken shit fine that should be disputed in court.
The co was following the law the way he has to too keep his job.. next time lean it on a stump instead.

[whitlers]

That's a pretty douche move.

[Drillbit]

Should be allowed to have a loaded magazine and empty chamber in regards to vehicles.

In my opinion a gun isn't loaded with out a live round in the chamber.

[835]

it is the law and has happened years ago to my now passed uncle.... like 70's years ago..... Shotgun and lunch

[Backwoods]

Same thing happened to me!!! I returned to my truck after a long day of hiking/ hunting in 7b, opened the passenger door of my truck, rested my rifle against the seat with the butt pad in the snow, truck wasn't running, was parked there all day, I was peeling off layers because I was sweating like a dog after my hike out, and while taking layers off a CO pulled up and we talked for a few mins, showed him my PAL and tags, with my rifle still resting against the seat (gun outside the truck passenger side, truck wasn't running all day) and I had my mag in with 3 rounds because it didn't even cross my mind I was doing anything wrong, it wasn't like I was driving around with a loaded gun, but he still gave me a fine for a loaded firearm in a vehicle although it wasn't even in the truck!!! So be aware they will pull that $hit

[davidov]

there is no grey area with the co's. it is black and white.we are all guilty till proven innocent.

[warnniklz]

I'm kind of on the CO's side on this one. It's not an obscure law.

If the law wasn't there... I'd drive around with a loaded rifle and when I got pulled over, I'd just set my loaded rifle out my window... then I would no longer have a loaded firearm in my vehicle.




Should be allowed to have a loaded magazine and empty chamber in regards to vehicles.

In my opinion a gun isn't loaded with out a live round in the chamber.

How quick is it to jack a round out of the chamber when you get pulled over by a CO?


On a different note. If hunters use the excuse "cause it's legal" in rebuttal to anti-hunters... we gotta use "cause it's illegal" when something is illegal.

[rocksteady]

The accused can go to court and dispute it.. maybe a judge would see it different

[brig]

I think we all have to remember that the CO's are there for the good of our sport. A loaded firearm is no trivial thing. I completely understand the individuals difficulty with the fine and I probably wouldn't appreciate it either, but if you think about the crap that the co's probably see and deal with all the time they can hardly be blamed for following the letter of the law. There's a lot of idiots running around out there and they have no idea if they just pulled up to one or not!

[squamishhunter]

Good to hear the nanny state is alive and kicking

[caddisguy]

If I am not mistaking, even resting a loaded gun against a tree or on the ground can result in unsafe storage or careless use. Some laws are vague catchall's and others are open to interpretation which leads to letter of the law vs spirit of the law type arguments. I don't see much of an issue putting down a loaded firearm (whether resting it against a tire, bumper or tree) if you need two hands to do something but have predators around.

Anyway, was this ticket/fine something that is under the Wildlife Act or was it actually a Firearms Act / Criminal Code violation? At least it just seems to be a fine vs an actual criminal charge.

[Slinky Pickle]

I have no issues with the CO on this one. Although a quad is a bit different, I can't think of too many ways that you can lean a loaded rifle against a vehicle and still have the muzzle pointed in a "safe" direction. As others have said, this one is very black and white.

[Hublocker]

Should be allowed to have a loaded magazine and empty chamber in regards to vehicles.

In my opinion a gun isn't loaded with out a live round in the chamber.

Opinions don't count in the courtroom.

[caddisguy]

Leaning against a rear bumper, it if it magically discharged, it would go through the tail gate, roof and whatever is beyond that (hillside, tree, etc) without much energy left. Probably less dangerous (to anything other than the vehicle) than a shoulder or cradle carry AD.

Leaning against a tire, it would probably go through the wheel well and floor pan and roof..
maybe engine block or hood which ought to slow things down a bit.

Not really any different than leaning it against a tree or on the ground (still technically illegal I believe)

I think the greater danger lies in forgetting the gun is leaning against the vehicle, then trying to drive a way (in which case it falls) or worse (doing a 3-point turn over it)

Sometimes it is necessary to have a loaded gun handy but not on your person. Though it might not be legal to lean a against a vehicle or tree, it I can see how these things happen in real life.

I really think it comes down to a spirit of the law vs letter of the law. The only way to be certain you don't run into trouble is to make sure a firearm is always unloaded unless on your person... so unload and then lean it against the tree before you do your duty... don't get busted with your pants down :)

[albravo2]

My uncle, a long time RCMP, would have asked if the law was from the Poultry Act. Because it sure is chickenshit.

Nanny state at its worst.

[REMINGTON JIM]

I Think a WARNING would have being Sufficent ! jmo RJ

[Mauser98]

On the very same day, the CO at Steward Lk busted a hunter who had killed a 10 point moose. Problem was the moose was only 9.5 points. Cost the hunter a seized moose and a $384 fine. (I may be a bit out on the amount but it was substantial).

Later he visited our camp and checked stuff. Licenses, tags, etc. He told us that he was also randomly checking Pals, drivers licences, helmets, insurance and all the other shit we have to pack. Some of our group got looked at more than others. Interestingly enough, he couldn’t use his licence app because the morning download didn’t work.

[srupp]

Hmmm was at a extremely remote fly in lake.remote! Co, s flew by enroute"to an offense..and stopped, did a dangerous hot debark"".all had hands on weapons ! First guy literally ran to the lake where we were camped..i asked who died? Why the rush? What was he looking for ? He said he was looking for " peas, corn, or evidence of us washing foodstuffs into the lake "
The next nice officer made Tim unwrap all 4 quarters of the first moose..looking for evidence of sex, legal hide to identify species.
The 3rd officer asked how many in camp..i said 4 hunters..he spotted the tampons. .and asked..who's those were ?
I said " those are Tims..your going to ask him about it..".. lol
Really agressive, at $4,000 / hour for wages and A star chopper .
Although when talking to Russ" at Swan lake he said it was one of THE best camps for layout, equipment he had ever seen..however they treated us as if criminals and seemed genuinely upset we were squeeky" clean.
On the other hand Len Butler local inspector for C o, s one of the most upstanding guys you will ever meet.
Infractions real or imagined means overtime special ops, job security..all those bad hunter dudes...
Srupp

[two-feet]

The COs have a tough job, like all enforcement officers. But they are human, with all of the good and bad that comes with that.

I think I agree with the COs on this one.

[albravo2]

Cutting firewood, gutting an elk, lots of reasons to leave a loaded gun nearby.

I figure if I'm smart enough to fire a shot and know I'm not going to kill anything other than my intended target, I'm smart enough to load a gun and set it down in a place safe enough not to kill something by accident. Gun with clip in set against a tree? Fine by me.

Who do I sue if I get attacked by a grizzly while trying to jam my clip into my gun and cycle the action?

[whitlers]

Cutting firewood, gutting an elk, lots of reasons to leave a loaded gun nearby.

I figure if I'm smart enough to fire a shot and know I'm not going to kill anything other than my intended target, I'm smart enough to load a gun and set it down in a place safe enough not to kill something by accident. Gun with clip in set against a tree? Fine by me.

Who do I sue if I get attacked by a grizzly while trying to jam my clip into my gun and cycle the action?

I have to agree with you. I for one don't see a problem with a clip in the gun and nothing in the chamber. I know the rules but I feel that the CO in this instance could have used his discretion.

[srupp]

Hmmm just for shit and giggles I went through a exercise to see how long it would take me to defend my wife and my life if i needed to defend us with my legal long gun.properly stored.if a really bad person came into our home and I was forced to use deadly force .
I was horrified to learn we both would be dead, no chance to access our legal firearm .to go to where the long gun is.to access hidden keys for the trigger lock, then to access ammo, clip stored separately and locked up securely.
Doing this took 3 minutes.far too long to be useful..rules..intent and literal interpretation.
Susan bought me Primos gen 2 shooting sticks..even comes with Jim Shockey likeness..just so I wasn't tempted to lean against my quad when she learned touching the truck or quad was illegal...time consuming to set up and use however works very well.
Srupp

[Boner]

I talked to a CO about using the truck hood as a gun rest. He told me as long as your two feet are planted on the ground, it is ok.

[Ohwildwon]

Good to know..

I always have my slug barreled 12g loaded, with one in the barrel, (safety on of course), leaning up against something, while in camp, solo...

Won't lean it against the truck tire any more...

[Gateholio]

While at Stewart lake fishing with the wife I met a fellow there who was out hunting and camping at the lake. On the day he arrived he took his rifle (unloaded) jumped on his quad with his chainsaw and headed out for some firewood. He told me that he found a tree stopped and got ready to fall it. He decided to load his rifle as there was a lot of bear sign there. After loading it he leaned the rifle against one tire of the quad. After falling the tree he was bucking up the tree and a co stopped and ticked him for a loaded firearm in a vehicle. Bloody rubbish. I saw the same co later and talked to him about discretion and intent. But the co was very happy with what he did. Poor job judgement.

How much was the ticket?

[The Hermit]

I talked to a CO about using the truck hood as a gun rest. He told me as long as your two feet are planted on the ground, it is ok.

Not to my knowledge... as far as I know you can not lean on any part of any vehicle while shooting. 99% sure of this.

[Treed]

Came across Billy-bob last week parked on a bridge, truck door open and gun through the open window shooting a grouse. My son looked at me and said “I thought we couldn’t shoot from the truck?” Wish a CO had been around. What a douche! Laws are made for the dumb 2% and enforced without rationale on the rest of us.

[Gateholio]

I write to clarify the opinion provided on September 10, 2009, regarding the use of a motor vehicle as a rest for the discharge of a firearm.

After further discussions with the COS and legal counsel the interpretation provided previously may not have been completely accurate. An individual is probably not breaking the law if they lean against a vehicle to steady their shot, provided both feet are on the ground. There is a possibility that the term “in or on” applies to the person and not the firearm.

However, this is not a recommended practice as there is a limited field of vision in an area where there is a high likelihood of other people being present. This activity comprises only a portion of a hunt, and as with every situation, the actions of a Conservation Officer would reflect specific circumstances

Regards,

Stephen MacIver
Fish and Wildlife Branch
Ministry of Environment
(250) 387-9767

[srupp]

I write to clarify the opinion provided on September 10, 2009, regarding the use of a motor vehicle as a rest for the discharge of a firearm.

After further discussions with the COS and legal counsel the interpretation provided previously may not have been completely accurate. An individual is probably not breaking the law if they lean against a vehicle to steady their shot, provided both feet are on the ground. There is a possibility that the term “in or on” applies to the person and not the firearm.

However, this is not a recommended practice as there is a limited field of vision in an area where there is a high likelihood of other people being present. This activity comprises only a portion of a hunt, and as with every situation, the actions of a Conservation Officer would reflect specific circumstances

Regards,

Stephen MacIver
Fish and Wildlife Branch
Ministry of Environment
(250) 387-9767

WOW ! That just opened a can of worms...yikes.
Srupp

[Drillbit]

I write to clarify the opinion provided on September 10, 2009, regarding the use of a motor vehicle as a rest for the discharge of a firearm.

After further discussions with the COS and legal counsel the interpretation provided previously may not have been completely accurate. An individual is probably not breaking the law if they lean against a vehicle to steady their shot, provided both feet are on the ground. There is a possibility that the term “in or on” applies to the person and not the firearm.

However, this is not a recommended practice as there is a limited field of vision in an area where there is a high likelihood of other people being present. This activity comprises only a portion of a hunt, and as with every situation, the actions of a Conservation Officer would reflect specific circumstances

Regards,

Stephen MacIver
Fish and Wildlife Branch
Ministry of Environment
(250) 387-9767


Probably.....eh....

#1
Dang.
Only have one foot.
I guess I should apply for a permit to shoot out the window then.....

#2
Dang
"There is a possibility that the term “in or on” applies to the person and not the firearm."
If so, why can't the firearm be against and not in or on a vehicle legally?

Very contradictory


Just so BCers know, and also Canadians that live outside of the lower mainland. There's other places in Canada where you can legally drive around with a loaded mag and nothing chambered. And you can even lean them against a vehicle legally.

[Big Lew]

I agree with not leaning a loaded firearm against a vehicle.
As was mentioned, it can be bumped or forgotten and if the safety was accidently left off,
very bad things could happen. A fellow I knew that owned a small concrete pump company
leaned his shotgun against either a fence post, or the wires, and as he crawled through
those wires, the gun slipped and went off, killing him. He had accidently left the safety off.

[Jack Russell]

I agree with not leaning a loaded firearm against a vehicle.
As was mentioned, it can be bumped or forgotten and if the safety was accidently left off,
very bad things could happen. A fellow I knew that owned a small concrete pump company
leaned his shotgun against either a fence post, or the wires, and as he crawled through
those wires, the gun slipped and went off, killing him. He had accidently left the safety off.

This unfortunate incident had less to do with leaning a firearm against a fence (or tire, or bumper), and more to do with poor firearm handling practices.

The ticket for leaning the gun against the quad tire is hard to swallow. Don't expect officer discretion anymore. Its not in the new world order.

[northernbc]

Many good points here for both sides. I personally do not like it A warning would have been better. I believe if I remember correctly the fine was between 3+4 hundred. The fellow is also a bear attack survivor as a younger man

[Steve W]

I posted this on another outdoor forum and it may be applicable here.
.
"As someone from the other side of these encounters I can say that my stats showed me for years that about 10% of people break the law and about 1% need to be treated like the jerks they are. Most of them manage to talk them selves into a ticket without much effort and the cost just keeps going up the longer they talk.

As for a CO I observed there’s a bit of a general progression in ones career:

0 -2 years experience. Full of wonder and awe at the job. Ask lots of questions and may not have a lot of confidence and easy to push around.

2-5 years of experience. Walk on water, know all the answers and think that most everyone is a bad guy an it’s their job to find them and drop as much paper on them as possible. Spend a lot of time in court dealing with angry “clients”. Little knowledge is dangerous phase. Drive their Sgts. nuts!

5-10 year experience. Have been through the wringer and lectured by Sgts, Crown Counsel and Judges enough to start figuring out how the system works and how to get the best juice for the squeeze. Starting to see that there are more good people around than bad and become a valuable part of their community.

10-25 years. Experience and time have rounded off all the rough edges. Know the system well enough to get the job done and give people a break when they deserve it. Hand out more warnings than tickets and can find the 10% relatively easily. 1%ers get easier to deal with because they know that you can always add another $250 if they just won’t shut up.

25+ years. These guys are the most dangerous to the 1%. Can pick out a 1%er in a heartbeat. Don’t give a flying %&$# about you chicken*&^% attitude. Know how far they can go and what they can say without having to deal with the internal discipline system. Know what Crown and the Judges want to convict a 1%er without too much fuss. This was the favorite time of my career!"

[Mauser98]

How much was the ticket?.

If if he was ticketed under section 9 of BC’s Firarm Act, the amount is $230.00($200+$30 victim surcharge).

[guest]

Good insight from Steve W, their only doing their jobs. It's one of those carreers I wish I had, I personally wish there were WAY more if them out there.

[Gateholio]

Just so BCers know, and also Canadians that live outside of the lower mainland. There's other places in Canada where you can legally drive around with a loaded mag and nothing chambered. And you can even lean them against a vehicle legally.

Not according to federal firearms law. It may be common pratice but it's illegal.

[Ferenc]

Many good points here for both sides. I personally do not like it A warning would have been better. I believe if I remember correctly the fine was between 3+4 hundred. The fellow is also a bear attack survivor as a younger man

Sounds like the work of Brinskie... yes a warning would have been fair... maybe more effort should be placed on the illegal harvest of bull moose during the rut closure than a firearm resting on a tire.

[Bernie O]

Just got back from a succesfull moose hunt. Very happy. Now to the subject at hand, Unless you are in very dangerous bear country, Why would your gun be loaded unless it's in your hand? I know this is not a popular thought but it is safety we are concrned with

[whitlers]

Just got back from a succesfull moose hunt. Very happy. Now to the subject at hand, Unless you are in very dangerous bear country, Why would your gun be loaded unless it's in your hand? I know this is not a popular thought but it is safety we are concrned with

Well that's just it. Most of bc is 'dangerous bear country' I for one always have my rifle with me mag loaded, chamber empty when processing game in the field. Call it silly but I would rather be over prepared then not.

I think the issue here is the definition of 'loaded' involving an installed magazine with NO round in the tube. A gun with a loaded mag and nothing chambered isn't going to go off by itself..

[Downwindtracker2]

The fine for the 9 1/2 point moose was $580, there were three violations involved. If you shoot and your count comes up 1/2" short, walk away, it's only one then. Unethical,yes, but the law is the law. The CO had to act, as there was an official compliant lodged by fellow hunter.

I didn't see any grizzly sign around Stewart lake this year. In years past we had a gut pile covered when we went to retrieve the quarters.

[IronNoggin]

The accused can go to court and dispute it.. maybe a judge would see it different

Good suggestion. :wink:

Here's a little related tale for ya'll

Quite some years ago I was hunting with two buddies in Saskatchewan.
We knew the area we were headed to very well, having taken a decent handful of good bucks there.
Set off well before daylight, as the area was a bit of a drive.
At the end of that drive, truck better than axle deep in fresh snow, we parked at the end of the trail facing a fence 3 feet in front of us.

With better than an hour and a half to go before daylight, we slowly got organized while discussing the strategy of the upcoming hunt. I took my father's rifle that go. I had dumped 3 rounds into the drop plate mag, left the bolt open, and laid it on it's case on the hood of the truck. And as we chatted and drank our coffees, the minus 25 night crawled ever so slowly towards dawn...

Suddenly we saw a bizarre occurrence. Someone who obviously did not know the trails was BLASTING over the landscape - front axle to rear axle bouncing - as the roared towards our location. Upon arrival, the bubble lights on the truck before us suddenly lit up, giving a rather surrealistic atmosphere among the snow crystals the truck had kicked up on it's sudden stop.

Out leapt a youngish CO, YELLING for us NOT TO MOVE as he ran to the driver's window.
Reaching inside, he shut the truck down, and pocketed the keys. WTF?
Everybody OUT. Roger...
He looked at all the licenses, checked the two cased rifles behind the seat, then finally spied Pa's rifle on the hood. What do we have here he cried. He snatched the rifle up, and instantly saw the cartridges below the open bolt. Who's is this? he demanded...

That would be my Father's I noted as I stepped forward, and quickly removed the rifle from his hands. He was agitated by that move obviously. Give that back he demanded. Don't think so said I. And I worked the bolt with the barrel pointed skyward three times, ejecting the ammo, and leaving the bolt open once again. I handed him the cartridges at that point.

He then said I'll be taking that rifle too, as you were Illegally transporting a loaded firearm.
Huh? You can see there is no gate in front of us, we are at the end of a dead end trail, and could not possibly move without turning around. There is No Way we would do that with Pa's Custom pre-64 Model 70 on the hood.
Give me the gun was his response.

I dumped two rounds into the mag, closed the bolt over one, and let the muzzle drift down to the ground at my side.
Afraid you'll have to be content with the shells was my response. This is a chickenshit charge, and I am a LOT more afraid of my Pa than you buddy! He turned beet red, then looked back at the open door of his marked truck. I could see what he was thinking - his issue 7mm Remmy was on the seat. Don't even go there I said with as much steel in my voice as I could muster. Even more red, he wrote out the paperwork, threw our keys into the snow beside our truck, and returned to his. He then roared off, following our tracks leading out to the distant highway.

My buddies were appalled. They thought the SWAT team would be all over us in seconds. I was shaking like a leaf, and as scared over what I had just done as anything I had ever been scared over before. But no SWAT team showed, and we took two fine bucks that day...

Got home, told Pa the full details. You over-reacted he said, I would not have held you responsible for that man's actions.
Whew!
Then he lawyer-ed me up.

The judge heard both sides. It was good for me that my buddies were witnesses. In the end the Judge chastised the fellow for his actions, telling him he never wanted to see such a case in front of him again. And I walked.

I was a young Hot Head back then. Since, I have been on the other side of that badge, and I know I would never ever even consider reacting in that manner ever again. Lucky at the time the fellow did not think of himself as some sort of Wyatt Earp...

Ain't told this tale to many, for somewhat obvious reasons.
But it does relate to what the OP noted, and I would STRONGLY suggest the fellow who was charged take it up with the Judge.
It may well go in his favor...

Cheers,
Nog

[wideopenthrottle]

all the legal and moral wrangling aside, all i can say is leaning anything up against or loosely sitting anything on vehicles or anything that moves has never been a good idea and it has worked out bad for everything from cell phones coffee cups cigarette packs, optics, and yes guns...

[Bustercluck]

We have all run into that one co on a power trip. Usually you're not expecting it and completely unprepared. I just take the ticket and belittle and call him names until he leaves. They always look shocked when you show absolutely no sign of respect for them. It might end up in more fines, but I don't really care. I'm not out there breaking the law and poaching, but there's always something if they look hard enough.

[Big Lew]

all the legal and moral wrangling aside, all i can say is leaning anything up against or loosely sitting anything on vehicles or anything that moves has never been a good idea and it has worked out bad for everything from cell phones coffee cups cigarette packs, optics, and yes guns...

Yes, I agree....and after reading some of the comments, it's not hard to understand why some COs
might have an 'attitude'. I've been hunting on crown land etc for 57 years and have never been treated
poorly or unfairly by COs. The only time I was checked by someone with an attitude was a university
student who had no real training about firearms or the letter of the law and was given a temporary 'badge.'
He backed off when I explained why I wasn't going to hand him my loaded gun through a fence. He also
got a lesson on firearms when I eventually gave him my unloaded shotgun to inspect. He stuck his fingers
inside the loading breech and activated the loading springs, slamming his fingers badly. I then said, that's
another reason you shouldn't be handling a firearm. He did apologize for his over zealous attitude and
thanked me for my patience.

[Fozzie]

Just last week my brother, daughter and I were returning from a successful moose hunt. We were just south of Vanderhoof when a Conservation Officer heading north suddenly pulled a u turn and proceeded to pull us over. He heard my generator running for my cooler on the trailer so assumed we had game. He was nothing but courteous and polite as he checked us out. After about a half hour delay we were on our way again. It's nice to see that they are out there doing their job.

[Gateholio]

Good suggestion. :wink:

Here's a little related tale for ya'll

Quite some years ago I was hunting with two buddies in Saskatchewan.
We knew the area we were headed to very well, having taken a decent handful of good bucks there.
Set off well before daylight, as the area was a bit of a drive.
At the end of that drive, truck better than axle deep in fresh snow, we parked at the end of the trail facing a fence 3 feet in front of us.

With better than an hour and a half to go before daylight, we slowly got organized while discussing the strategy of the upcoming hunt. I took my father's rifle that go. I had dumped 3 rounds into the drop plate mag, left the bolt open, and laid it on it's case on the hood of the truck. And as we chatted and drank our coffees, the minus 25 night crawled ever so slowly towards dawn...

Suddenly we saw a bizarre occurrence. Someone who obviously did not know the trails was BLASTING over the landscape - front axle to rear axle bouncing - as the roared towards our location. Upon arrival, the bubble lights on the truck before us suddenly lit up, giving a rather surrealistic atmosphere among the snow crystals the truck had kicked up on it's sudden stop.

Out leapt a youngish CO, YELLING for us NOT TO MOVE as he ran to the driver's window.
Reaching inside, he shut the truck down, and pocketed the keys. WTF?
Everybody OUT. Roger...
He looked at all the licenses, checked the two cased rifles behind the seat, then finally spied Pa's rifle on the hood. What do we have here he cried. He snatched the rifle up, and instantly saw the cartridges below the open bolt. Who's is this? he demanded...

That would be my Father's I noted as I stepped forward, and quickly removed the rifle from his hands. He was agitated by that move obviously. Give that back he demanded. Don't think so said I. And I worked the bolt with the barrel pointed skyward three times, ejecting the ammo, and leaving the bolt open once again. I handed him the cartridges at that point.

He then said I'll be taking that rifle too, as you were Illegally transporting a loaded firearm.
Huh? You can see there is no gate in front of us, we are at the end of a dead end trail, and could not possibly move without turning around. There is No Way we would do that with Pa's Custom pre-64 Model 70 on the hood.
Give me the gun was his response.

I dumped two rounds into the mag, closed the bolt over one, and let the muzzle drift down to the ground at my side.
Afraid you'll have to be content with the shells was my response. This is a chickenshit charge, and I am a LOT more afraid of my Pa than you buddy! He turned beet red, then looked back at the open door of his marked truck. I could see what he was thinking - his issue 7mm Remmy was on the seat. Don't even go there I said with as much steel in my voice as I could muster. Even more red, he wrote out the paperwork, threw our keys into the snow beside our truck, and returned to his. He then roared off, following our tracks leading out to the distant highway.

My buddies were appalled. They thought the SWAT team would be all over us in seconds. I was shaking like a leaf, and as scared over what I had just done as anything I had ever been scared over before. But no SWAT team showed, and we took two fine bucks that day...

Got home, told Pa the full details. You over-reacted he said, I would not have held you responsible for that man's actions.
Whew!
Then he lawyer-ed me up.

The judge heard both sides. It was good for me that my buddies were witnesses. In the end the Judge chastised the fellow for his actions, telling him he never wanted to see such a case in front of him again. And I walked.

I was a young Hot Head back then. Since, I have been on the other side of that badge, and I know I would never ever even consider reacting in that manner ever again. Lucky at the time the fellow did not think of himself as some sort of Wyatt Earp...

Ain't told this tale to many, for somewhat obvious reasons.
But it does relate to what the OP noted, and I would STRONGLY suggest the fellow who was charged take it up with the Judge.
It may well go in his favor...

Cheers,
Nog

You are lucky that the CO wasn't carrying a sidearm at the time, or if he was, that he didn't draw on you. You were clearly acting in a threatening manner and had deliberitaly loaded a rifle to confront the CO. I think it would have been quite legitimate to draw on you and shoot if you didn't drop the rifle immediately

[303savage]

After loading it he leaned the rifle against one tire of the quad. After falling the tree he was bucking up the tree and a co stopped and ticked him for a loaded firearm in a vehicle.
How can a firearm be considered in a vehicle when it's leaning against the vehicle?

[squamishhunter]

You are lucky that the CO wasn't carrying a sidearm at the time, or if he was, that he didn't draw on you. You were clearly acting in a threatening manner and had deliberitaly loaded a rifle to confront the CO. I think it would have been quite legitimate to draw on you and shoot if you didn't drop the rifle immediately

An armed society is a polite society. That CO had no grounds to act in that manner.

[BushBuck]

Completely ridiculous!

[boxhitch]

An armed society is a polite society. That CO had no grounds to act in that manner.Kidding... .right? Like C says, Nog was clearly a threat and must have dealt with a real rookie if the peace officer didn't come back with Federal charges. Hard to believe this one didn't go further

[boxhitch]

As to the original story about the loaded gun leaning on the quad, I bet there was discussion about when the rifle was actually loaded
A hunter, in hunting area drives to a spot to get fire wood with an empty rifle , and then when about to fire up a chainsaw and do the chore, decides that is the time a loaded rifle might be handy
Suspicions and what-ifs aside, the CO used the laws available to him to lay a charge

As kids, we were once charged with open liquor in a vehicle. The eight new cases of beer were all sealed, but an empty can that had been rolling around the truck box for weeks 'appeared to have some liquid inside that may have been an alcoholic beverage'. Ouch, that one hurt that Saturday night bash.

[warnniklz]

How can a firearm be considered in a vehicle when it's leaning against the vehicle?

Out hunting riding dirty. CO pulls you over. Put your loaded firearm out the window and lean it against your vehicle. Walla, no more loaded firearm in the vehicle.

[Downwindtracker2]

Cutting firewood. They just pushed the road farther in and left a stack of birch. The SPF had been hauled out, but the birch was just a weed in the way. So I bucked up a few loads. On one of the trips a two point moose stepped out to watch me buck and load the truck. He was less than 10 yards from me. He stuck around until I was almost finished. Usually I had my rifle slipped in the blanket seat cover, but not that day. I guess I had left it in the cabin that morning.

[Downtown]

On the very same day, the CO at Steward Lk busted a hunter who had killed a 10 point moose. Problem was the moose was only 9.5 points. Cost the hunter a seized moose and a $384 fine. (I may be a bit out on the amount but it was substantial).

Later he visited our camp and checked stuff. Licenses, tags, etc. He told us that he was also randomly checking Pals, drivers licences, helmets, insurance and all the other shit we have to pack. Some of our group got looked at more than others. Interestingly enough, he couldn’t use his licence app because the morning download didn’t work.

Your quote----All the other shit we have to pack.

Yes, perhaps it is getting somewhat redicules. High time for the regulation makers to reworke "the Act". They are loosing support of the Hunters. These days no Fun to be a "Conservation Officer". Nowwhere else in civilized in the civilized World do Game Wardens wear Bullet proof Gear and carry Pistols on there hip.

Happy hunting !

[IronNoggin]

You are lucky that the CO wasn't carrying a sidearm at the time, or if he was, that he didn't draw on you. You were clearly acting in a threatening manner and had deliberitaly loaded a rifle to confront the CO. I think it would have been quite legitimate to draw on you and shoot if you didn't drop the rifle immediately

That occurred when I was 18, not quite 19 years of age.
I was 195 pounds of Fighting Machine - years of training in both Boxing and Tae Kwon-Do.
And I had an attitude about six yards wide.

40 years ago this fall...

They did not have sidearms in those days, just issue rifles & scatterguns.
I was indeed threatening.
He could have never made it to his rifle in his truck, and knew it. As did I.
Would I have shot him? Not a chance. Worst bluff I've ever played in my life.
And again, one I would never repeat.

His actions were completely unfounded. He was indeed way out of line IMO at the time.
As was my response. Completely that is.
And yes, damn lucky the situation did not escalate.

Since then, I grew up (a little).
I wore the badge for both Alberta F&W, and National Parks.
And yes, had the odd encounter involving firearms. Quite Thankfully never had to use one on any Two-Legs.
And I well understand the situation for what it might have been...

Like I said, it's a story I don't often repeat. For rather obvious reasons.

Cheers,
Nog

PS: OP - Tell the man to take it to court.

[Edzzed]

I think they write tickets a lot of the time knowing you won't show up to dispute it. When they take your ID they know where you reside and would you spend a couple days to drive 1000 miles round trip to dispute a ticket. I have fought every ticket ever issued to me except one. I have also never encountered a CO just police. I lived in Poco and got a speeding ticket in Vanderhoof. When I was pulled over I get the usual do you know why you are being stopped and I said no. He tells me I was speeding and he will be right back. I said can you make detailed notes as I will be disputing any ticket since my Mom lives here so it's easy to come back to visit. He came back after a couple minutes and gave me my license + insurance back and tells me to drive safely. No ticket, just a verbal warning.

[Viper]

I think they write tickets a lot of the time knowing you won't show up to dispute it. When they take your ID they know where you reside and would you spend a couple days to drive 1000 miles round trip to dispute a ticket. I have fought every ticket ever issued to me except one. I have also never encountered a CO just police. I lived in Poco and got a speeding ticket in Vanderhoof. When I was pulled over I get the usual do you know why you are being stopped and I said no. He tells me I was speeding and he will be right back. I said can you make detailed notes as I will be disputing any ticket since my Mom lives here so it's easy to come back to visit. He came back after a couple minutes and gave me my license + insurance back and tells me to drive safely. No ticket, just a verbal warning.

Years ago in Ontario I worked with COs on occasion. During the moose season in Northern Ontario a lot of "southerners" drove for a couple of days to hunt. One of the main offences the COs loved to write people up for was "hunting on road". These roads included deactivated logging roads. I said to one guy isn't that a really chicken shit charge? He replied yes but we know they are not going to come back from Toronto to fight the ticket plus it's good for stats. Another one was not having your gun in a case after dark. So if you are coming from your duck blind or tree stand after dark you had to bring a case in with you. The cased gun had to be out of reach while in the vehicle. I never heard of anyone getting charged for leaning a gun on a truck or quad. More similar stories too many to remember. Main point here is with many provincial regulations they are poorly written, leaving way too much discretionary power to COs. One CO says it's not illegal to do whatever and the next guy says it is. You have every right to contest tickets in court. From my experience some of them are not prepared for trial and the case gets tossed.

Don't get me wrong here I am 100% behind law enforcement and COs do a very important and dangerous job. If regulations are written in plain english with no room for interpretation this would make life a lot easier for them and us.

[BC_Buck]

On the very same day, the CO at Steward Lk busted a hunter who had killed a 10 point moose. Problem was the moose was only 9.5 points. Cost the hunter a seized moose and a $384 fine. (I may be a bit out on the amount but it was substantial).

Later he visited our camp and checked stuff. Licenses, tags, etc. He told us that he was also randomly checking Pals, drivers licences, helmets, insurance and all the other shit we have to pack. Some of our group got looked at more than others. Interestingly enough, he couldn’t use his licence app because the morning download didn’t work.

How do you figure it was 9.5 points? There can only be a 9 or 10 point. Not in between

[ElectricDyck]

I think everyone needs to remember its easier ti catch and ticket honeat people making honest mistakes then crimanals breaking the law...

[Surrey Boy]

I think everyone needs to remember its easier ti catch and ticket honeat people making honest mistakes then crimanals breaking the law...

If anyone thinks government employees have any care beyond their paycheques, they're too naive to deserve sympathy.

[Mr.Crumbz]

I could see how that ticket would be frustrating. If one was actively hunting with a loaded firearm on a vehicle I can see that, but firewood with a loaded firearm for protection leaned on a tire? That sucks. Not that its not the law to a Tee.....