FN by-passing canadian govnt straight to Queen for ownership of all "Crownland"

[RadHimself]

Heard a peice on CBC radio the other night stating the FN bands are rallying together and sending lawyers straight to the top in an attempt to gain what is rightfully theirs... All of our crownland...

What do we know about this ladies and gentlemen?

i know a party was trying to slide a bill through the back door in bc gov to ban public use of crownland a few years ago... but this is a touch extreme

anyone?

[squamishhunter]

Never happen, at least while we are still armed.

[Brew]

That would cause an outright war and I'm pretty sure the fn couldn't win that battle

[Jagermeister]

< 5% of the population who suck up ≥ 20% of the Federal budget to which a minuscule few contribute to want ownership over all crown land.
The Queen, or any succeeding ruler, would would have to be the ultimate despot to grant that favor.

[303savage]

Getting a little tired of the F.N. bullshit, if we didn't come here they would still be throwing rocks at their next meal.
Maybe we should start charging them for the use of the technology we brought with us. Guns, nylon nets, motor vehicles etc.

[ryanb]

You can't begrudge FN for the way things are, and the way they are going. The problem is our government and courts that have allowed things to get to where they are at. If someone keeps giving you money and letting you do whatever you want, what do you expect?

[IslandWanderer]

Lol, never happen. Sounds like attention seeking to me.

[RiverOtter]

Never happen, at least while we are still armed.
While I can savvy the sentiment, this country is well past the point of standing up for anything; at least on a large enough scale to do anything domestically. The generations of young men that fought and died for the very freedoms we've so eagerly given away, were sadly not replaced. Our current crop of 'men' is not even fit for the work force, let alone an armed force.

While native entitlement is a dire situation, I'm betting it'll pale in comparison to what we'll be facing in a generation or two from the flood of 'new' Canadians they flew over in recent years.

[Hunter gatherer]

Maybe the laws in this country need to change the definition of who is FN. Unless you are 100% FN you are just a Canadian like everybody else. In other words no mixed blood. Just a thought.

[steve-r]

Laws do need to change, but why do they have to differentiate one group vs another? Why not one set of laws for all equally? Same taxes, same access to public services, same wildlife laws, same land use laws!

[S.W.A.T.]

Getting a little tired of the F.N. bullshit, if we didn't come here they would still be throwing rocks at their next meal.
Maybe we should start charging them for the use of the technology we brought with us. Guns, nylon nets, motor vehicles etc.

No one has the marbles to do anything about it

[the_longwalker]

You do know that Sweaty Betty aka The Queen, has no legal authority to do anything in this country, right? It's a ceremonial position.

[303savage]

Sweaty Betty aka The Queen,

Show a little respect she is still our Queen.

[the_longwalker]

Well, our Sergeant Major thought it was a good enough title when we went on parade for her in 1990, so I think i'll stick with it.

[Weatherby Fan]

This is no joking matter and they will get it plain and simple as they get everything they ask for, they have land claims in for a 150% of the Province

Im so sick of this $hit I can't even discuss it rationally.....but I know its extremely frustrating and its only going to get worse....alot worse

[RadHimself]

Ty for chiming in something relevent wthby

[New Bow Hunter]

Have you ever noticed in the Canadian history, we never had an Indian War like the US.
It may still come. Keep pushing.

[skibum]

I think FNs just pull this crap to troll hunting forums

[RadHimself]

Yea.... there we go, i just made it up....

.... wow

[Weatherby Fan]

Sorry Rad, my post above is probably not the most fitting for what you were originally asking

[ve7iuq]

The DNA of the human bones found in a melted glacier that survived two ice ages, proved the first settlers of north America were Europeans, not north American Indians.

[HarryToolips]

Maybe the laws in this country need to change the definition of who is FN. Unless you are 100% FN you are just a Canadian like everybody else. In other words no mixed blood. Just a thought.
Yup I think that's a great idea....what we need is a Canadian Trump who isn't as big of an A hole but will say it like it is, and isn't just in it to get re elected/$$/pension, and will stand up for what's right for the majority of the population...

[HarryToolips]

Have you ever noticed in the Canadian history, we never had an Indian War like the US.
It may still come. Keep pushing.
Yup, if they push they will get it....

[IslandWanderer]

Sweaty Betty aka The Queen,

Show a little respect she is still our Queen.

The monachy is for chumps. Forget those inbred freeloaders.

[klondikemike]

Hey ve7 care to show the rest of us where you found this interesting information on the DNA of theses remains?

[edgar11]

Have you ever noticed in the Canadian history, we never had an Indian War like the US.
It may still come. Keep pushing.


Yup, if they push they will get it....

What are you guys kids? From the 1800's? Go check your calendars to see what day and age it is OK? :wink:

[igojuone]

Looks to be Neanderthals where here first. http://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/13660/20170427/old-but-gold-neanderthals-not-humans-were-the-first-american-settlers-reports-say.htm

[REMINGTON JIM]

Sorry Rad, my post above is probably not the most fitting for what you were originally asking

YES it was ! It was Very RELEVANT :!: RJ

[edgar11]

Looks to be Neanderthals where here first. http://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/13660/20170427/old-but-gold-neanderthals-not-humans-were-the-first-american-settlers-reports-say.htm

I heard it was the Ogopogo..............Or was it Fred Flintstone I can't remember. :mrgreen:

[jassmine]

Looks to be Neanderthals where here first. http://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/13660/20170427/old-but-gold-neanderthals-not-humans-were-the-first-american-settlers-reports-say.htm

Have you tried reading the article, it is clear that their understanding of english is lacking even more than their understanding of science:
ex: "Based on the Newscientist (https://www.newscientist.com/article/2129042-first-americans-may-have-been-neanderthals-130000-years-ago/), archaeologists led to the conclusion that Neanderthals, not humans, were the first Americans settlers after mastodon bone fossils were actually skeletons with fragments of bones and teeth that were smashed and broken.

The New Scientist article is much more clear and accurate, with alternative hypotheses, because Mastodon bones though interesting are not necessarily conclusive of anything:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2129042-first-americans-may-have-been-neanderthals-130000-years-ago/
ex: Alternatively, it might have been modern humans – Homo sapiens – that made it to the New World 130,000 years ago, says Fullagar. Recent archaeological evidence suggests our species was in China 120,000 years ago (https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22830434-400-first-humans-to-leave-africa-went-to-china-not-europe/), which is far earlier than once thought. Perhaps modern humans were in East Asia even earlier than the Chinese fossils suggest, and moved into the Americas from there.

[Whonnock Boy]

Up until 13,000 years ago the world was in the ice age, then BAM!!! New evidence is suggesting a cataclysmic event that caused the melting of the ice shield, the rising waters of the oceans by a few hundred feet, and the end of countless species and people, including those that inhabited north america. The oldest aboriginal artifacts found to date are those of the Heiltsuk, at just over 13,000 years. Coincidence? I don't think so. The continent started fresh with the immigration of modern day aboriginals. Yes, they were here first, but on a global time frame, they only beat out the Europeans by less than a blink of an eye. Simply put, we are all immigrants just looking for a place to coexist in equality.

[jassmine]

Yes, they were here first, but on a global time frame, they only beat out the Europeans by less than a blink of an eye. Simply put, we are all immigrants just looking for a place to coexist in equality.

It was only 7000-8000 years ago or so that a major migration of ancient humans moved to the middle of Europe occurred. A few 1000 years later other large groups of early humans migrated there, making up the majority of the hunter-gather - farmer genetic signature that help us differentiate taht group.
Putting things on the same timescale, (not that of the entire geologic period) does put things into perspective though. On a geologic timescale nothing matters, because everything is a blink of an eye.

Haak, W.et al. Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe. Nature 522, 207–211 (2015)

[bross]

Historic record of human occupation across north America is generally accepted to be appx 13,000yrs bp; however a review of the Blue Fish Caves (northern Yukon) site in 2017 found it to be 24,000 years old, lending support to the "Beringian standstill" hypothesis - that the ancestors of Native Americans spent considerable time isolated in a Beringian refuge during the Last Glacial Maximum before populating the Americas.
Interesting stuff.

[Bugle M In]

Planet is too small (too many humans) to have "special status" for certain people.
FN may only be a "small percentage", but that shouldn't give them more rights.
To have in place a "science related harvest plan", all need to be a part of that.
Not sure why government wants to do it the way they are.....
But, as I stated before, and say again.
Segregation, regardless of color/nationality/origin, will always lead to/contribute to racism.
Not that what people on here are saying is racism....
Everyone here is just looking for "equality" when it comes to hunting.
Why some feel they need to shoot 20+ animals a year to sustain themselves is beyond me.
Makes me wonder "how much of the animal do they actually take home"???
Finally, I think the "sleeping giant" is starting to wake up..

[edgar11]

Planet is too small (too many humans) to have "special status" for certain people.
FN may only be a "small percentage", but that shouldn't give them more rights.
To have in place a "science related harvest plan", all need to be a part of that.
Not sure why government wants to do it the way they are.....
But, as I stated before, and say again.
Segregation, regardless of color/nationality/origin, will always lead to/contribute to racism.
Not that what people on here are saying is racism....
Everyone here is just looking for "equality" when it comes to hunting.
Why some feel they need to shoot 20+ animals a year to sustain themselves is beyond me.
Makes me wonder "how much of the animal do they actually take home"???
Finally, I think the "sleeping giant" is starting to wake up..

There is actually a lot of people, no matter what the color of their skin is, that have the exact same thoughts as you. The concern I have is that you are making general statements regarding an entire race of people. We are all not going out there and shooting "20+ animals a year". I know there a some that do that but I have never seen it.
The "special status" you speak of is printed in government "laws" and we don't make those "laws". We have always just wanted what was taken from us and I guess that's where you get the "special status" from.
Of course not all Aboriginal people think that way as so many have been brought up with different values and ethics and some have been mistreated in one form or another which probably leads to a little resentfulness. I can't really blame some of them.
I do realize though that as long as the government paints this "segregation" of Aboriginal people through their laws and policies, the resentment will continue. Can me or you do something about that? probably not. Can the government do something to bring about more equality to everyone? Maybe..........Will they? Probably not.

[wideopenthrottle]

there is also the issue of entitlement......I remember one year when I was travelling to the UK, they have a line for EU members and one for everyone else...you can imagine which line moves faster...no big deal as I am usually a patient person when dealing with situations that are out of my control (like how fast a line moves)...a fellow from Nigeria was ahead of me and I chatted with him a bit....when he saw my Canadian passport he said "don't you find it annoying that Germans, French, Italians etc are getting fast tracked into England while Canadians (who died to keep England free from European control) have to wait in the long line?" ......well until he mentioned it I never really gave it much thought but after that, I felt a bit angry.....

when someone tells you over and over that you deserve more you start to believe it and feel abused/neglected/entitled.....I still get a bit put off when I think about what the Nigerian fellow said but it goes against my nature of trying to be happy in spite of difficulties...I try to live in the moment with pride in my abilities and not give control of my life (my power) away by being a victim

[ryanb]

I think it's time our government explored a final settlement with all first Nations, implemented via individual settlement to avoid any corruption and eliminate special status for first Nations once and for all.

The problem is that the cost of this would be so high that it is hard for any one government to consider it.... But really it's much better option than the steady bleed in perpetuity that we seem doomed to see.

[wideopenthrottle]

I think it's time our government explored a final settlement with all first Nations, implemented via individual settlement to avoid any corruption and eliminate special status for first Nations once and for all.

The problem is that the cost of this would be so high that it is hard for any one government to consider it.... But really it's much better option than the steady bleed in perpetuity that we seem doomed to see.

use it as a fiscal stimulus!!!!!! how many poor people that get a big sum of money save or invest it????? usually they blow it!!!!! that is why Chiefs will argue they must "manage the money for their peoples' own good".....I say let the chips fall where they fall

[RadHimself]

Were about 3 generations "canadian" now....

1 country, 1 government, 1 set of rules

dont like it, **** off... Exactly have that redheaded Aussie put it

but itl never happen, you know why?

Greed.... this country is one of the, if not the most beautiful and diverse in the world. But were a puppet nation. Our govntment is useless. We got a group that hunts, a group that hasnt been putside since the 80's calling the hunters murder's... and a bunch of metrosexuals taking selfies that only give a **** about getting high....

we are never going to amount to dick all until we either start a civil war, or we get a leader that actually wants to lead.... The elderly and anyone from ontario or quebec are not the voice that should be leading this country

we all know it

this country is litteraly like highschool
1 group smokes
1 plays sports
1 has family money

all they do is talk shit and nothing ever happens

[edgar11]

I think it's time our government explored a final settlement with all first Nations, implemented via individual settlement to avoid any corruption and eliminate special status for first Nations once and for all.

The problem is that the cost of this would be so high that it is hard for any one government to consider it.... But really it's much better option than the steady bleed in perpetuity that we seem doomed to see.

That is actually a good idea. I can only imagine how much of that money is wasted. What has it accomplished in all these years? The whole idea was flawed to begin with. Time to sit down and work out a modern day solution to this growing concern. The residential school thing didn't work why would anybody think any of the other government programs could be successful?

[Weatherby Fan]

That is actually a good idea. I can only imagine how much of that money is wasted. What has it accomplished in all these years? The whole idea was flawed to begin with. Time to sit down and work out a modern day solution to this growing concern. The residential school thing didn't work why would anybody think any of the other government programs could be successful?

I couldn't agree more Edgar.......you certainly are the voice of reason and from the outside looking in your one of a very few, hats off to you partner

[edgar11]

I couldn't agree more Edgar.......you certainly are the voice of reason and from the outside looking in your one of a very few, hats off to you partner

Thanks WF I understand both sides and I do not understand how blatant abuse can continue and nothing gets done about it. The fisheries are much more organized in that all of the fish are accounted for and a specific reason has to be given if you are going to access the resource (i.e. food, ceremony). The Bands understand that conservation is of the utmost importance and they follow the direction they are given. Not sure of all Bands in BC follow this but the ones in the Lower mainland do.
It seems though that game are not given the same consideration. If you need a moose to feed your family or for a ceremony fine but there is no need to shoot 20 animals just because you can. That is just plain wrong no matter what color your skin is.

[TexasWalker]

Thanks WF I understand both sides and I do not understand how blatant abuse can continue and nothing gets done about it. The fisheries are much more organized in that all of the fish are accounted for and a specific reason has to be given if you are going to access the resource (i.e. food, ceremony). The Bands understand that conservation is of the utmost importance and they follow the direction they are given. Not sure of all Bands in BC follow this but the ones in the Lower mainland do.
It seems though that game are not given the same consideration. If you need a moose to feed your family or for a ceremony fine but there is no need to shoot 20 animals just because you can. That is just plain wrong no matter what color your skin is.

Which lower mainland do you live in??
Are the rotting totes full of sockeye and piles of rotting salmon left on beaches for conservation??

[edgar11]

Which lower mainland do you live in??
Are the rotting totes full of sockeye and piles of rotting salmon left of beaches for conservation??

Which beach are you alluding to?

[IronNoggin]

Which beach are you alluding to?

Here's a start for you: https://www.facebook.com/oliver.rutschmann.1/posts/10155199949731871

Nog

[HappyJack]

There is actually a lot of people, no matter what the color of their skin is, that have the exact same thoughts as you. The concern I have is that you are making general statements regarding an entire race of people. We are all not going out there and shooting "20+ animals a year". I know there a some that do that but I have never seen it.
The "special status" you speak of is printed in government "laws" and we don't make those "laws". We have always just wanted what was taken from us and I guess that's where you get the "special status" from.
Of course not all Aboriginal people think that way as so many have been brought up with different values and ethics and some have been mistreated in one form or another which probably leads to a little resentfulness. I can't really blame some of them.
I do realize though that as long as the government paints this "segregation" of Aboriginal people through their laws and policies, the resentment will continue. Can me or you do something about that? probably not. Can the government do something to bring about more equality to everyone? Maybe..........Will they? Probably not.

Maybe nobody shoots 20, but how many are you/we legally allowed to kill?? 1 moose, 1 elk, 2 black bears, 1 grizzly, 3 deer, 1 caribou, a goat, 1 sheep, and 10 grouse a day and a few turkeys, and hundreds of ducks and geese per season. And it's all legal, nobody needs that much meat so why are the limits so liberal?? I heard lots of white guys do this every year and they way way outnumber the FNs 9 to 1.

[tuffcityhunter]

laws do need to change, but why do they have to differentiate one group vs another? Why not one set of laws for all equally? Same taxes, same access to public services, same wildlife laws, same land use laws!

we can only hope for something that great

[boxhitch]

we can only hope for something that greatYeah maybe sometime after all the land claims are settled and we make some rules for our non-indian reserved areas.

[Chuck]

Laws do need to change, but why do they have to differentiate one group vs another? Why not one set of laws for all equally? Same taxes, same access to public services, same wildlife laws, same land use laws!

I thought that this is the way it was supposed to be. Who are the idiots who changed the rules so that everyone is squabbling? Sounds just like some sort of a conspiracy; of which there are many in history and all ending badly!

[HarryToolips]

Maybe nobody shoots 20, but how many are you/we legally allowed to kill?? 1 moose, 1 elk, 2 black bears, 1 grizzly, 3 deer, 1 caribou, a goat, 1 sheep, and 10 grouse a day and a few turkeys, and hundreds of ducks and geese per season. And it's all legal, nobody needs that much meat so why are the limits so liberal?? I heard lots of white guys do this every year and they way way outnumber the FNs 9 to 1.
I know a lot of licenced hunters and not one I know does that...and if they are, their a damn good hunter and they are lucky to have that much time to hunt, to be able to count points, lengths of curl etc and take that many animals would be very hard to do...and according to the MOE, only 3 % of hunters harvest their 3 deer a season bag limit, and how many of those harvest all the other species you listed?? I'm guessing not many..

[Bugle M In]

Maybe nobody shoots 20, but how many are you/we legally allowed to kill?? 1 moose, 1 elk, 2 black bears, 1 grizzly, 3 deer, 1 caribou, a goat, 1 sheep, and 10 grouse a day and a few turkeys, and hundreds of ducks and geese per season. And it's all legal, nobody needs that much meat so why are the limits so liberal?? I heard lots of white guys do this every year and they way way outnumber the FNs 9 to 1.

Ya, I am kinda going to call the above "BS" on that.
There are a few who tag out, but they generally tag out on say deer, moose and maybe elk....but that is so rare.
I they do tag that many, some I may consider poaching at times....
But, there are few who like to tag out just because they have a tag.....3 deer...yes...some do.
Throw in a Moose...okay...and an elk.....wow.....
But to throw in sheep and goat.......I doubt that.

I have met a few FN, and they say, ya, I have taken 4 deers so far this season.
I have a slightly hard time swallowing that...not that they are lying..it's being truthful...
And, then I accept it...and say...okay...fair enough.
But, I know a few fn that do take 20+ in a season...be it deer and moose combined for the most part.
That's were I have the issue....
how the hell can wildlife be managed with that going on???
hard enough to factor in "poaching"...and I am sure there is a lot more poaching going on these days, then ever
before....and that is not an fn issue....
But, you combine those 2 factors, and try to manage things???.....
Science only works with what #'s you plug into the computer...
garbage #'s in.....garbage out!
That's the wildlife impact of that issue.
And then there is the "one user groups right as compared to the other who is restricted" in an area inequality.
We are not at a good point in time right now for wildlife or resident hunters to hunt.
Then you throw in all the "private land" issues that are "sneaking up" on us, that we don't see as easily, but is
happening all the time now, and slowly eroding hunting area opportunities for the future.

[Kami]

Isn't Canada a completely separate country from England? I don't know the laws. Are we not a free country, to do as it's citizens agree to do, with it's elected Government? What power does any Queen or King of England have over us? The ability to transfer our crown land to FN? Are you FN' kidding me? Is this really a threat?

I'd wager there will be a civil war if it ever comes to that. I believe it won't. Lawyers know how to keep milking the cow. Massaging it, and taking a little more every year. Just enough so that average people won't notice. Won't stand up, unite and fuel a massive movement to stop it.

[Lassassino]

Isn't Canada a completely separate country from England? I don't know the laws. Are we not a free country, to do as it's citizens agree to do, with it's elected Government? What power does any Queen or King of England have over us? The ability to transfer our crown land to FN? Are you FN' kidding me? Is this really a threat?

I'd wager there will be a civil war if it ever comes to that. I believe it won't. Lawyers know how to keep milking the cow. Massaging it, and taking a little more every year. Just enough so that average people won't notice. Won't stand up, unite and fuel a massive movement to stop it.

"Constitutional role

Further information: Monarchy of Canada § Federal constitutional role (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada#Federal_constitutional_role)
Though the monarch retains all executive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_(government)), legislative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislature), and judicial (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judiciary) power in and over Canada,[59] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_General_of_Canada#cite_note-65)[60] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_General_of_Canada#cite_note-MacLeod17-66) the governor general is permitted to exercise most of this, including the Royal Prerogative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_prerogative), in the sovereign's name; some as outlined in the Constitution Act, 1867,"

The Governor General is appointed by the Queen USUALLY on the advice of the Prime Minister. He ranks higher than the prime minster which is why he sits higher in the throne room when he is being sworn in. The queen and the governor general could over rule a Canadian election if they thought the prime minster we elected wasn't suitable. hence if a trump type got in they could nullify the election. So you tell me, are we a sovereign without any outside force or un-elected officials watching over us?

[quadrakid]

We all follow the law in this country. Most native bands in bc never signed legal treaties to give their land to the crown.They have always claimed the land as their own. The 2007 decision in the chilcotin that went to the supreme court of canada agreed that the natives owned huge areas of traditional land. They own it. Many more such decisions will come down the pipe because it is the law.It took a hundred and fifty or so years for them to win this fight. You may disagree but you better get used to it.They have the law on their side.Which is amazing considering they only got the right to vote when i was a kid.

[Kami]

I thought I read somewhere that FN were traditionally against land ownership? They were Nomads travelling to seasonal food sources. Stewarts of the the land, not owners. Is this true?

[digger dogger]

Republic of Western Canada, is sounding better and better every day.

[Wild one]

Without govt putting effort to reach a final agreement with FN it will be a never ending battle leaving uncertainty on what's next for non FN in Canada

Unfortunately the government is choosing to go with bandaids when it comes to FN instead of addressing the main issue of of FN claims. This has created a situation where FN know they can raise a stink and govt will agree to smaller demands to avoid the major issues. Does not matter what race was given the ability to exploit govt they would do it because it's human nature to use all available advantages.

The way FN issues are/have been dealt with has created all the problems and today's FN culture. Reality is there have been many cultures wronged throughout history in this world and they have moved forward. It is plain to see the way FN issues are dealt with is an epic fail.

Sucks to be the one in the middle of this getting screwed

[Bugle M In]

Without govt putting effort to reach a final agreement with FN it will be a never ending battle leaving uncertainty on what's next for non FN in Canada

Unfortunately the government is choosing to go with bandaids when it comes to FN instead of addressing the main issue of of FN claims. This has created a situation where FN know they can raise a stink and govt will agree to smaller demands to avoid the major issues. Does not matter what race was given the ability to exploit govt they would do it because it's human nature to use all available advantages.

The way FN issues are/have been dealt with has created all the problems and today's FN culture. Reality is there have been many cultures wronged throughout history in this world and they have moved forward. It is plain to see the way FN issues are dealt with is an epic fail.

Sucks to be the one in the middle of this getting screwed

well said!.......

[Downtown]

You do know that Sweaty Betty aka The Queen, has no legal authority to do anything in this country, right? It's a ceremonial position.


Ceremonial Ehhh,
I understand that bunch of Bandits suck plenty of Money out of the Canadian public purse each year not to mention this Lady and her sucessors have (by act of the Canadian Government) exclusive water rights in all of Canada.

Cheers and bent over

[Downtown]

Looks to be Neanderthals where here first. http://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/13660/20170427/old-but-gold-neanderthals-not-humans-were-the-first-american-settlers-reports-say.htm


So does this mean I can go on hunting Grizzly Bear without a licece, at night, by setgun just as my ancesters did and of course for ceremonial purposes. It has been proven that Neanderthals used everything from the Grizzly but never touched the meat and that is a fact which was explained in "the Spiegel" a few years back.

Cheers

[Bugle M In]

So does this mean I can go on hunting Grizzly Bear without a licece, at night, by setgun just as my ancesters did and of course for ceremonial purposes. It has been proven that Neanderthals used everything from the Grizzly but never touched the meat and that is a fact which was explained in "the Spiegel" a few years back.

Cheers

I think there is going to be quite the "underground" for Taxidermy in the future.
And a few of us are going to learn how to "do it yourself"