Blacktail deer or hybrid?

[twoSevenO]

Don't have a tail pic of the buck's behind, but it was the same as the doe.

Pic taken in reg 3 alpine. Blacktail, or mulie-blacktail hybrid?

https://imgur.com/a/Icrsf
https://imgur.com/a/Icrsfhttps://i.imgur.com/Zplmjpj.jpg

[butthead]

muley deer buck

[S.W.A.T.]

What is the difference between a blacktail and a mule?

Or do you mean whitetail a

[Cosmonewt]

is this the Columbian Black tail ?

[twoSevenO]

What is the difference between a blacktail and a mule?

Or do you mean whitetail a

Not I don't mean whitetail.

While mule deer and blacktail deer are hunted on the same tag they are, in fact, different. Mulie deer have skinny white tails with black tips. Blacktails generally have a little wider tail that is all black. Blacktail are generally smaller as well including smaller antlers.

[twoSevenO]

is this the Columbian Black tail ?

It's in reg 3 so it couldn't possibly be a Sitka blacktail as far as I'm aware.

[Rupert Retired]

Looks like a hybrid to me. I have seen hybrids around EE Manning Park, a white bum and a blacktail tail. This is sort of like that. For purposes of scoring, there are defined boundaries that specify where there are mule deer and blacktail, for sure Region 3 is mule deer country. However, if you get a booner, they may take DNA and decide which category to put it in, they have been doing that now for a few years, to settle these types of disputes with big bucks in Oregon and California, probably Washington as well.

This could also be a hybrid mule deer / whitetail, they do occur and in Region 3 that may be more likely.

[Salty]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Blacktail.jpg/330px-Blacktail.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/2012-mule-deer-female.jpg

Blacktail top - small patch of white on the rump outside of tail mostly black
Mule botom - large patch of white on the rump outside of tail mostly white with a black tip

[ducktoller]

Looks like a columbia bt. The whole 316/17/33 etc area has hybrids too

[TexasWalker]

That's a blacktail.

[btridge]

The book says that there are no Blacktails in lots of areas where there are little pockets of Blacktail genetics, Hence the name of our Lodge is Blacktail Ridge Lodge and RV. Columbia Blacktails once populated the entire Columbia basin which covers a large part of BC.

[twoSevenO]

You cant go by the map .... especially if it's one of those border areas ;)

[sako79]

It's in reg 3 so it couldn't possibly be a Sitka blacktail as far as I'm aware.

Sitka are only on queen charlotte islands

[ACB]

There are definite borders as far as trophy records go for Columbia Blacktails. I shot a beautiful 4 pt. buck deer east of Boston Bar that had all the characteristics of a blacktail buck, shorter snout, brown all the way down to the black tip on the tail but because of where he was shot he couldn't be classed as a Columbia Blacktail but a hybred.

[Dannybuoy]

There are definite borders as far as trophy records go for Columbia Blacktails. I shot a beautiful 4 pt. buck deer east of Boston Bar that had all the characteristics of a blacktail buck, shorter snout, brown all the way down to the black tip on the tail but because of where he was shot he couldn't be classed as a Columbia Blacktail but a hybred.
So that would make it a mulie, which is a cross between a black tail and a whitetail .
Personally the OP 's pics look like a whitetail , certainally not a mulie

[twoSevenO]

So that would make it a mulie, which is a cross between a black tail and a whitetail .
Personally the OP 's pics look like a whitetail , certainally not a mulie

How is a mulie a cross between a blacktail and a whitetail??

[twoSevenO]

There are definite borders as far as trophy records go for Columbia Blacktails. I shot a beautiful 4 pt. buck deer east of Boston Bar that had all the characteristics of a blacktail buck, shorter snout, brown all the way down to the black tip on the tail but because of where he was shot he couldn't be classed as a Columbia Blacktail but a hybred.

Yeah but that's only as far as accepting a species as such. Just because that deer walks back and forth along the reg 2 / reg 3 boundary doesn't make him alternate between mulie or blacktail. He's one or the other.

Records not accepting him into the books when he's on one side is a different issue.

[Salty]

Yeah but that's only as far as accepting a species as such. Just because that deer walks back and forth along the reg 2 / reg 3 boundary doesn't make him alternate between mulie or blacktail. He's one or the other.

Records not accepting him into the books when he's on one side is a different issue.

You got that right, plus deer come and go in areas through the years so if there is such thing as an accurate boundary between BT and mule deer its ever changing. Look at it this way no one would deny that its blacktail deer country in the Cascades along the Coq up to the snow shed, tried and true they're there. And if talk about say the Coldwater valley 30 or so clicks up the road its been known for years as mule deer country. Pretty short walk. Same thing happens on the transition out of the coast mountains towards the interior further north.

[Pemby_mess]

I'm in 3-16 and it looks exactly like the hybrids we have around here. They always have "dirty" dark patches on their shoulders and flanks. The pure Mulies seem to bee a much more uniform fawn color with a smoother texture to their coat. The deer on the East/west sides of the Fraser are quite stark in their differences, I find. The dividing lines seem to continue up through the West/east sides of Seton lake and again on either side of the Bridge River Glacier.

[Pemby_mess]

How is a mulie a cross between a blacktail and a whitetail??

ive always been under the impression that it's the opposite: a blacktail is a cross between a whitetail subspecies and a mulie. I've heard that blacktails were whitetails stranded on the west side of the ice sheets. After the retreat, they hybridized mulies infilling from the south and east.

[ducktoller]

ive always been under the impression that it's the opposite: a blacktail is a cross between a whitetail subspecies and a mulie. I've heard that blacktails were whitetails stranded on the west side of the ice sheets. After the retreat, they hybridized mulies infilling from the south and east.
Genetic evidence shows mulies as quite young only 10-2000 years old. Blacktail and whitetail are millions though some think millions of years ago they were the same species. Mulies isolated during the iceage and have since spread

[scotty30-06]

^^^^^^all the research I have done agrees with this....whitetail and blacktails made muleys

[ajr5406]

Genetic evidence shows mulies as quite young only 10-2000 years old. Blacktail and whitetail are millions though some think millions of years ago they were the same species. Mulies isolated during the iceage and have since spread

yep, I think it may have been in Mule Deer Country, by Valerius Geist that I read that too

[ryanb]

It's a mule blacktail hybrid. Fact of the matter is that the regs treat the two as the same species so it's only academic. I know areas where the majority of the deer have tails like this. Also seen in the same area would the traditional muley and blacktail tails.

[Pemby_mess]

yep, I think it may have been in Mule Deer Country, by Valerius Geist that I read that too

Yeah I read that last night. Indeed it seems to confirm the opposite of what I had thought to be true. Seems mostly counter-intuitive to me, but then you gotta defer to the genetics.

[Dannybuoy]

Yup it's been discussed many times on this site over the years ...

[Salty]

Blacktails on the island where there's no mule deer at all and so hybridization to consider don't always have pure black tails top to bottom some have some brown up top much like the OP. The OP looks like a plain old Columbia blacktail to me.

island BT-
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/Salty303/bt%20doe_zpscrnz65o1.jpg

[twoSevenO]

So does anyone have a pic of what would be considered an ACTUAL hybrid?

I'd now like to see a hybrid one. Everyone talks about them around the reg2 / reg3 boundaries but I've yet to see on that a majority would agree was an actual hybrid.

Or is it simply such a grey area wed never collectively agree on whether any individual deer is a blacktail or hybrid?