No ATV use in 3-28, 3-29 and 3-30

[MichelD]

http://www.wltribune.com/news/vehicle-restrictions-in-place-to-protect-big-game-in-wildfire-ar
(http://www.wltribune.com/news/vehicle-restrictions-in-place-to-protect-big-game-in-wildfire-areas/)
To protect big game wildlife in areas severely affected by the summer’s wildfires the province announced late Friday it is putting two motor vehicle restrictions in place.

Wildfires in the Thompson and Cariboo regions have enabled motor vehicle access by hunters to remote moose and mule deer habitats that were previously only accessible by foot, the Ministry of Forests said in a press release, noting in addition, loss of vegetation from fires has significantly increased lines of sight for hunters.

Under the wildlife act, there are now restrictions in the Elephant Hill fire area of the Thompson region and within the Chilcotin Plateau and Hanceville-Riske Creek fires, effective until Dec. 10, 2017.

In the Elephant Hill fire area the use of ATVs for the purpose of licensed hunting is prohibited within Management Units 3-28, 3-29, and 3-30, and that portion of Management Unit 3-17 north of Highway 99.

Within the Chilcotin Plateau and Hanceville-Riske Creek fire areas the use of all motor vehicles for the purpose of licensed hunting is prohibited except on designated highways and mainline forestry roads.

The restrictions are expected to be in place until access and visibility conditions return to a state where wildlife are less vulnerable, the ministry said, noting the new restrictions do not apply to First Nations exercising Aboriginal rights to hunt.

Government will monitor the effectiveness of the restrictions and dependent on the review, further hunting restrictions may be implemented.

As wildfires in the East Kootenays have also been severe, the Province is currently reviewing their extent and impact on wildlife, which may lead to further access restrictions, the ministry noted.

[Five]

the new restrictions do not apply to First Nations

I am so f*cking tired of the racism in Government policy in BC toward non-aboriginals.

[RE1960]

If it's that important to stop licenced hunters this should apply to every one other wise what is the point.

[Quince]

Its not on the government website...yet

[Fosey]

The BCWF has to put out a statement against this. The reason we are not allowed to hunt is conservation. So why are the natives allowed?

[bcsteve]

Was just going there next week end for our annual grouse hunt with my 7 year old daughter. We'll either have to leave the quad home or find another spot.

[bcsteve]

Its not on the government website...yet
http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/regulations/2016-2018/hunting-trapping-synopsis-2016-2018-region3.pdf

[carnivore]

I guess the FN have a constitutional and treaty right to hunt, while for "white eyes" it is a privilege.:???:

[blackhawk19]

i just don't get it . When is the Gov't going to stop segregating.

[HarryToolips]

I am so f*cking tired of the racism in Government policy in BC toward non-aboriginals.
Same here.......

[HarryToolips]

The BCWF has to put out a statement against this. The reason we are not allowed to hunt is conservation. So why are the natives allowed?
Do you have a link to their statement??? I can't find it on their main webpage...

[Johnny G1]

I am so f*cking tired of the racism in Government policy in BC toward non-aboriginals. X3 guess I'll have to teach the wife to hunt, 1/4 breed, no paper's.

[Ratso]

http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/regulations/2016-2018/hunting-trapping-synopsis-2016-2018-corrections.pdf

[charlie_horse]

When are people going to realize that non compliance in numbers is going to be the solution.

[Blue_Heron]

Oh, s$it, just in time for our hunt in that area...
(*left to unload ATV from trailer*)

[Cub Driver]

Check this link.
http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/regulations/2016-2018/2017_atv_hp_elephanthills.pdf

[Sirloin]

-------------------------------------------------

[Dbuck]

I think all use of ATV's in the province should be banned , Native and non-native. the only people who can use an ATV for hunting,
should be a senior ( over 65 ) or a handicapped person. As far as I'm concerned , don't call yourself a hunter, if thats all you do is
drive around and around looking for game.

[Hublocker]

I think all use of ATV's in the province should be banned , Native and non-native. the only people who can use an ATV for hunting,
should be a senior ( over 65 ) or a handicapped person. As far as I'm concerned , don't call yourself a hunter, if thats all you do is
drive around and around looking for game.

Yessir. I think you're right.

[Wentrot]

Shit ass attitude on you two^^^^ if people wanna road hunt let em. If you ban one way where do you draw the line? Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean everyone else does.

[BigfishCanada]

Nice, no ATV's is good.... Region 8 has more dear and allows by the way

[Wild one]

And are hunters starting to see the need for a stronger voice representing them yet?

[Billybird]

We need a stronger voice! BCWF just isn't cutting it any more time for a larger more powerful group to come in and make a difference, I have a membership with BCWF ( included in my range membership) but wouldn't have it if I had to pay. I am a member of SCI as well and I think if we had the membership numbers in BC there would be change.

[Fisher-Dude]

Only way you'll change anything is if you get rid of the NDP.

They are the ones doing this. All part of their anti-hunting agenda you've all been warned about but many ignored.

Now that people have let these dorks grab power, we'll see hunting closed down so fast for white guys, it'll make your head spin. This is just the start.

By the time you organize, it'll be too late. You've lost the grizzly bear hunt and now you've lost huge areas for moose and deer hunts for non-natives, all in a couple of short months.

You guys, and you know who you are, got exactly what you voted for.

[Kanook Senior]

Rights ! Rights ! sick and tired of native rights.
Traditional ways of hunting and fishing I am okay with that. Since when were Quads a tradional way of native hunting. Absolute F--KING BULL SHIT.
There will be trouble if this keeps going on
ONE SETOF RULES FOR ALL.

[pnbrock]

Just use the atvs when is the last time you saw a co in the bush anyway. Bullshit racism at its finest.

[260rem]

I am so f*cking tired of the racism in Government policy in BC toward non-aboriginals.

Same here!

[Five]

I think all use of ATV's in the province should be banned , Native and non-native. the only people who can use an ATV for hunting,
should be a senior ( over 65 ) or a handicapped person. As far as I'm concerned , don't call yourself a hunter, if thats all you do is
drive around and around looking for game.

I have never hunted with my ATV, however don't tell me I can't, but another can because of his skin color.

[JIL_24/7]

The double standard is bad, but having been out this past week I think banning ATV use in fire affected areas is a good idea. It should be for all, yes, and that is a problem if the goal is wildlife management because it doesn't even allow for a real critical understanding of the effects of the ban unless the "control" group is consistent which in this case would be a total ban for hunting regardless of status or occupation. However, what has troubled me deeply on these forums over the last while is all of the nasty words towards "ATV users". All of you folks did not walk to your hunting site from your home. You drove to an area and then hiked in. I think road hunting takes much of the wonder out of hunting and I would hope that every hunter would someday learn that hiking and searching and monitoring wind conditions and experiencing the bush in silence is beautiful, but even with that sentiment I would vigorously oppose an ATV ban for hunting. For me personally I don't road hunt, but I do have a UTV. I use it to get to my hunting area on forest service roads because I have decided not to use my daily driving vehicle for this task and experience the greater wear and tear. It makes no sense to me if there is a better tool designed to accomplish the task. Furthermore, I have no problem with using said tool to retrieve game in a timely fashion and better my chances for it not spoiling. It is very narrow minded to lump people into a single category. We bewail when "poachers" are labeled as "hunters" and yet our own community labels whole sub-groups and thinks and speaks of them all in the same manner. I love hiking, I love calling, I love finding sign and following it through the bush AND I drive a UTV.

[Deer_Slayer]

What a bunch of shyte. NDP found a way to stop hunting. This will now force hunting in other areas, which will put more pressure on wildlife, thus...more closures. The forest will take years to replenish so does this now mean no hunting for years to come? I am really beginning to hate living in this province.

[Deer_Slayer]

Amen brother

[butthead]

http://www.wltribune.com/news/vehicle-restrictions-in-place-to-protect-big-game-in-wildfire-ar
(http://www.wltribune.com/news/vehicle-restrictions-in-place-to-protect-big-game-in-wildfire-areas/)
To protect big game wildlife in areas severely affected by the summer’s wildfires the province announced late Friday it is putting two motor vehicle restrictions in place.

Wildfires in the Thompson and Cariboo regions have enabled motor vehicle access by hunters to remote moose and mule deer habitats that were previously only accessible by foot, the Ministry of Forests said in a press release, noting in addition, loss of vegetation from fires has significantly increased lines of sight for hunters.

Under the wildlife act, there are now restrictions in the Elephant Hill fire area of the Thompson region and within the Chilcotin Plateau and Hanceville-Riske Creek fires, effective until Dec. 10, 2017.

In the Elephant Hill fire area the use of ATVs for the purpose of licensed hunting is prohibited within Management Units 3-28, 3-29, and 3-30, and that portion of Management Unit 3-17 north of Highway 99.

Within the Chilcotin Plateau and Hanceville-Riske Creek fire areas the use of all motor vehicles for the purpose of licensed hunting is prohibited except on designated highways and mainline forestry roads.

The restrictions are expected to be in place until access and visibility conditions return to a state where wildlife are less vulnerable, the ministry said, noting the new restrictions do not apply to First Nations exercising Aboriginal rights to hunt.

Government will monitor the effectiveness of the restrictions and dependent on the review, further hunting restrictions may be implemented.

As wildfires in the East Kootenays have also been severe, the Province is currently reviewing their extent and impact on wildlife, which may lead to further access restrictions, the ministry noted.

https://media.tenor.com/images/5158a453de78f96a1b36b76a666f7b20/tenor.gif

[Ohwildwon]

Haven't been to these area's since the fires, don't understand 3-28 and most of 3-29..

Whats up with that?

[butthead]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=111&v=iJ4T9CQA0UM

[Jelvis]

Time to hike with your gun now if your going to see a nice buck.
Walk up a closed road for atv and maybe see a good buck, a nice meat buck, BANGO!
Jel -- CLOSED 4 OFF ROAD VEE HIC CALZ -- these boots R made 4 warkin and datz jis whad daydo

[WWBC]

I agree with one law for all and scientific based conservation. If the critters are over exposed in an area because of easyer access I'm all for access restrictions.

What I don't agree with is: identifying that there's a conservation risk then deciding that the wildlife is less valuable than preserving FN privilege.

I'd hope that the bands in these areas show some respect for conservation and restrict access of their members as well.

[HappyJack]

I guess the FN have a constitutional and treaty right to hunt, while for "white eyes" it is a privilege.:???:

That is how I read it. The NDP cannot ban atv use for aboriginal hunting because it would be unconstitutional...they would lose in court and then be criticized for doing something only a stupid liberal would do. hehe

[Fisher-Dude]

Nothing unconstitutional about restricting vehicular access for all.

Conservation trumps aboriginal rights.

[Ohwildwon]

Time to hike with your gun now if your going to see a nice buck.
Walk up a closed road for atv and maybe see a good buck, a nice meat buck, BANGO!
Jel -- CLOSED 4 OFF ROAD VEE HIC CALZ -- these boots R made 4 warkin and datz jis whad daydo

Yep, love it!

Have a great experience being out there this year all!! #figureitoutanddoit

[Islandeer]

NDP has drawn a line in the sand.

They are all in for native charm and their tall tales.


And on it will go till the pendulum has swung as far as it can.

What happens then? Civil war?

[HarryToolips]

We need a stronger voice! BCWF just isn't cutting it any more time for a larger more powerful group to come in and make a difference, I have a membership with BCWF ( included in my range membership) but wouldn't have it if I had to pay. I am a member of SCI as well and I think if we had the membership numbers in BC there would be change.
Completely agree....if I had time I'd love to start a new federation but I don't....hope a new one that truly stands up for resident hunters is formed soon so we can all jump on board and have a stronger voice..

[HarryToolips]

Just use the atvs when is the last time you saw a co in the bush anyway. Bullshit racism at its finest.
This is the first time I agree with something like this..f em....unless they have signs everywhere prove that people weren't out before this closure was released, if they were going to ban FN's as well, sure, but if they're going to be biased they can pound sand..

[Looking_4_Jerky]

While I dislike the fact my hunting is not constitutionally protected and indigenous peoples' is, I relectantly accept that's just how it is. But to exempt them from emergency conservation measures is just nuts. Write your MLA, people!

[horshur]

**** sakes you guys the damn fire is only 1/2 of the hectares it is advertised as. There is lots of green in the fire. The mapping of it typical lazy government much like current press release no atv map...including an area 10x the size of the fire area. Areas that are 100kms from any fire and you can still drive you FWD truck anyware. Fricken enforcement gong show cause you can still ride as long as not hunting...I have to think for the sake of the province this is a mistake(boundary)

[pnbrock]

i agree with a stronger voice than bcwf i really think negotiating away my rights is unacceptable!!!!

[pnbrock]

maybe we should pay bcwf on a performance basis?

[REMINGTON JIM]

As usual I am totally PISSED at the Gov and the Poor FN s :cry:ing. ! THERE so hard done by ! LoL ! Its gotta come to a head and end it soon ! jmo. RJ

[Jagermeister]

We need a stronger voice! BCWF just isn't cutting it any more time for a larger more powerful group to come in and make a difference, I have a membership with BCWF ( included in my range membership) but wouldn't have it if I had to pay. I am a member of SCI as well and I think if we had the membership numbers in BC there would be change.
How proactive are you?
Like most, and me lately, nothing is done to present our views and desires to our MPs, MLAs. I guess that we fully expect them to read our diatribe on this forum and make the changes.
As for SCI. Notice when you go to their site, you cannot find a list of board members, you can at the BCWF website. I wonder why that is?
You want a stronger voice, get involved with BCWF instead of just holding membership.

[Wild one]

How proactive are you?
Like most, and me lately, nothing is done to present our views and desires to our MPs, MLAs. I guess that we fully expect them to read our diatribe on this forum and make the changes.
As for SCI. Notice when you go to their site, you cannot find a list of board members, you can at the BCWF website. I wonder why that is?
You want a stronger voice, get involved with BCWF instead of just holding membership.

SCI is actually starting fresh in BC at this time. Right now they are not a strong voice in BC but the results they have achieved else where and the international backup they hold future potential.

For those who are anti non resident or GO this organization will not help with those views.

As for BCWF heart might be in the right place but ability to achieve results is in ?. At this time I see a lack of effort for a push back regarding grizz and as a hunter who enjoys this hunt it's a slap in the face

BCWF looked promising pushing big dreams but seems they are not seeing the results hoped for

BCWF has it's good but when it comes to defending hunters I ? If they are right for the job

[horshur]

You all best hang onto your hats cause the rumour is full on ban province wide for use of quads for hunting in the works.

[Hublocker]

You all best hang onto your hats cause the rumour is full on ban province wide for use of quads for hunting in the works.

I would suspect that rumour is just that.

But realistically speaking, what difference does a "no-ATV" rule really mean for hunting in 3-29, 3-29 and 3-30?

The roads are open for regular motor vehicles so if you want to road hunt, go ahead, and if you want to get out and hunt on foot there's nobody stopping you from doing that either.

[Wild one]

You all best hang onto your hats cause the rumour is full on ban province wide for use of quads for hunting in the works.

Would not surprise me

[rocksteady]

This does not surprise me in the "age of reconciliation" but how long does it need to continue before we say enuff is enuff?

[swampthing]

3-28 didn't even see a fire did it?

[Deer_Slayer]

Knew this would be next after the mysterious fires that swept so much of BC. My spidey senses tell me these fires were deliberately set by Liberal snowflakes, to advance their global warming/climate change BS and put a stop to hunting!

[Wild one]

Knew this would be next after the mysterious fires that swept so much of BC. My spidey senses tell me these fires were deliberately set by Liberal snowflakes, to advance their global warming/climate change BS and put a stop to hunting!

Ok now that's some tinfoil hat thinking right there lmao

[Throwaway]

As backwards as the race based exception is I welcome this news. I'd be for a permanent ban on crown land for all ATV use off the FSR. Anything to get less vehicles in the backcountry.

[HarryToolips]

As backwards as the race based exception is I welcome this news. I'd be for a permanent ban on crown land for all ATV use off the FSR. Anything to get less vehicles in the backcountry.
No, more bans are bad...what they really need to do is make more logging companies do their due diligence, and de activate more spur FSR roads...people can't tell me that quads will always get through, because I have found good cutbblocks where no quad or any vehicle would get through..

[Wild one]

As backwards as the race based exception is I welcome this news. I'd be for a permanent ban on crown land for all ATV use off the FSR. Anything to get less vehicles in the backcountry.

This is an ATV ban for hunting only won't change joy riders. This is to impact none FN hunting nothing more

Rarely use atv for hunting myself but would not support a atv ban that only targets hunters

[horshur]

3-28 didn't even see a fire did it?
About 500ha thuya creek fire..90 % steep ground fire. No improved access. Worst burn area adjacent to thuya fsr cannot for life of me reason why 3-28 is included in ban...

[Fisher-Dude]

As backwards as the race based exception is I welcome this news. I'd be for a permanent ban on crown land for all ATV use off the FSR. Anything to get less vehicles in the backcountry.

No, we need to ban all hunting that isn't conducted the way you prefer to hunt.

All of it.

[one-shot-wonder]

About 500ha thuya creek fire..90 % steep ground fire. No improved access. Worst burn area adjacent to thuya fsr cannot for life of me reason why 3-28 is included in ban...

Because the Bonaparte band was the sqeaky wheel.

[markomoose]

As backwards as the race based exception is I welcome this news. I'd be for a permanent ban on crown land for all ATV use off the FSR. Anything to get less vehicles in the backcountry.So you don't like hunting or you can't afford an ORV??Inform us?

[REMINGTON JIM]

This is an ATV ban for hunting only won't change joy riders. This is to impact none FN hunting nothing more

Rarely use atv for hunting myself but would not support a atv ban that only targets hunters

The restrictions are expected to be in place until access and visibility conditions return to a state where wildlife are less vulnerable, the ministry said, noting the new restrictions do not apply to First Nations exercising Aboriginal rights to hunt.

Exactly the Friggin FNs get what they WANT again and screw over us resident hunters AGAIN ! :( jmo RJ

[skibum]

There is no impact on First Nations right to hunt if the same ATV restrictions apply to them. Don't get it

Saying that, I have never seen a First Nation hunter out in in these zones -- during hunting season. I hunt them a lot.

I agree with others here on the principle, but am not too sure about getting riled up about the conservation impact.

[Hunterguy]

Nice guys now we have hunters fighting with hunters in regards to ORV's. united we stand, divided we fall! Just what the non hunters want!!!

[browningboy]

Screw it I should just hunt anyhow, say I'm First Nations and screw em!

[338win mag]

Nice guys now we have hunters fighting with hunters in regards to ORV's. united we stand, divided we fall! Just what the non hunters want!!!
How do you know who the hunters are on here?? Some of the guys posting on this site are a part of the anti agenda and are here talking shyte and stirring the pot, their true colors will show. A guy with 3 posts and an opinion is a likely suspect. lol

[Throwaway]

Not fighting with anyone. Just aware of the fact the the spaghetti bowl FSR and atv trail system is the number one issue affecting ungulate numbers negatively and predator (wolf) numbers positively. A little overgrowth growth would do a lot of good.

[Bugle M In]

Time to hike with your gun now if your going to see a nice buck.
Walk up a closed road for atv and maybe see a good buck, a nice meat buck, BANGO!
Jel -- CLOSED 4 OFF ROAD VEE HIC CALZ -- these boots R made 4 warkin and datz jis whad daydo

Oh ya...for sure....hike 3 miles up, because I have to leave the truck behind, only to find that
"Tonto" has dropped a buck using his "aboriginal FORD"!

[Bugle M In]

Not fighting with anyone. Just aware of the fact the the spaghetti bowl FSR and atv trail system is the number one issue affecting ungulate numbers negatively and predator (wolf) numbers positively. A little overgrowth growth would do a lot of good.

Sorry...but...ATV's aren't the biggest issue for negative ungulate #'s.
Over Access is an issue, but only 1 of many reasons.
I hunt in vehicle closures using mountain bikes for 30+ years, and yet the #'s are dropping...not improving!
I hunt mulies 99.5% on foot and away from raods, and don't use ORV's.
ORV's have as much right to be out there as a truck...it's just they do a better job for less gas.
Agree that ORV's should stick to FSR and spur roads, and not be able to go up "trails" etc, but I don't blame hunters,
as many are created by dirt bike/snow mobile clubs.
That being all said....some of you are missing the REAL ISSUE....
Squabbling about if ATV' are good or bad....start a different thread.
The issue is "FN", the stewards of our land, by claiming their aboriginal rights, get to access "these so-called
sensitive zones" with "white mans vehicles"!!!.
In other words, it proves that they are not concerned about wildlife....only themselves (as if we here don't already know it)
This should wake everyone up!!!.....this is the new "new".
This is only going to get worse for us resident hunters.
We should start setting up "organized blockades" against FN, and block them from every getting off the highway.
Maybe we should organize "protested hunting trips" with ATV's in road closured areas such as elephant hills.
Then as we get charged, we can take it to the supreme court and state "Discrimination".
Who knows, maybe we would have a case?!?

Worst part that angers me.....
Is the Elephant Hill Fire wasn't really called that when it began!
It was the Aschcroft Trailer Reserve that started all this...and those pricks wasted hours before they called anyone in.
It their fire....and we are flipping the bill and the ultimate price.
So pissed right now, and proves what I have said for a long time...
We as Resident Hunters in BC, have no real organization that represents us, and we sure as hell don't have a voice.

[Throwaway]

Good points. Not exactly how I'd make them but good none the less. I got a bit of a bias towards native issues. My maternal uncle has his status card. My mother and by proxy my brother and I didn't go that root because we're white as **** and didn't even meet a native person until we moved from Ontario. Sorry for hikacking. Occasionally I get baked and post vaguely relevant stuff.

[hare_assassin]

Oh ya...for sure....hike 3 miles up, because I have to leave the truck behind, only to find that
"Tonto" has dropped a buck using his "aboriginal FORD"!

...and stolen all your stuff from your truck.

[REMINGTON JIM]

WELL Written Bugle M In ! All your points are CORRECT ! jmo too RJ

[Xenomorph]

Sorry...but...ATV's aren't the biggest issue for negative ungulate #'s.
Over Access is an issue, but only 1 of many reasons.
I hunt in vehicle closures using mountain bikes for 30+ years, and yet the #'s are dropping...not improving!
I hunt mulies 99.5% on foot and away from raods, and don't use ORV's.
ORV's have as much right to be out there as a truck...it's just they do a better job for less gas.
Agree that ORV's should stick to FSR and spur roads, and not be able to go up "trails" etc, but I don't blame hunters,
as many are created by dirt bike/snow mobile clubs.
That being all said....some of you are missing the REAL ISSUE....
Squabbling about if ATV' are good or bad....start a different thread.
The issue is "FN", the stewards of our land, by claiming their aboriginal rights, get to access "these so-called
sensitive zones" with "white mans vehicles"!!!.
In other words, it proves that they are not concerned about wildlife....only themselves (as if we here don't already know it)
This should wake everyone up!!!.....this is the new "new".
This is only going to get worse for us resident hunters.
We should start setting up "organized blockades" against FN, and block them from every getting off the highway.
Maybe we should organize "protested hunting trips" with ATV's in road closured areas such as elephant hills.
Then as we get charged, we can take it to the supreme court and state "Discrimination".
Who knows, maybe we would have a case?!?

Worst part that angers me.....
Is the Elephant Hill Fire wasn't really called that when it began!
It was the Aschcroft Trailer Reserve that started all this...and those pricks wasted hours before they called anyone in.
It their fire....and we are flipping the bill and the ultimate price.
So pissed right now, and proves what I have said for a long time...
We as Resident Hunters in BC, have no real organization that represents us, and we sure as hell don't have a voice.


Aren't you too busy working, running a business and making sure certain payments are made to ...

Look, we can bitch and complain as much as we want but the reality is GOABC and BCWF should be one and representing all our interests. This whole shit show should already be in courts funded by both. The reason why they keep winning (Government, FN) is because resident hunters are too busy squabbling over inconsequential bullshit and happy to get the crumbles from the table.

One day we will wake up. Hope it won't be after I'm dead because I plan on enjoying the outdoors with my kids and coming grandchildren.

[Squamch]

One day we will wake up. Hope it won't be after I'm dead because I plan on enjoying the outdoors with my kids and coming grandchildren.

Teach your kids the difference between right and wrong, and legal and illegal. Likewise, teach them the difference between a legal system, and a justice system.

[Bugle M In]

True about working etc....
I understand that we have other obligations, while FN have all the time, and now days have all the government support.
Reality is, the FN don't really have to do much at all...just pick up the phone, and for some reason, it gets done they way they want....atleast in regards to hunting these days.
I do think we need an Organization that really represents hunters here in BC.
I have nothing against BCWF, and really do appreciate the members who put in a s*** load of their personal time, and I
don't mean to throw it back in their face....
But, after that GOABC/LEH fiasco, is was very apparent to me that BCWF doesn't really have a voice (IMO).
The GOABC, has a voice, atleast when the Liberals were in, but they really are in place for the GO's and express their
power for them, but not for directly for Residents.
Yes, GOABC will fight the Grizz Ban, and if they succeed, we will win as a "byproduct" of that decision, but again, it was not directly related to the Resident Hunters Voice.
And Society like BCSS, have nothing really to do with hunters (although it is hunters who donate money etc..and time),
as they are in place to help sheep!...again...not resident hunters.
Maybe the GOABC might wake up and realize they are on the way out sooner then the rest of us!!??
Grizz 1st.....then what...goat...lets face it, long way to climb up to just eat shoe leather, and I know many of the outfitters
in the EK rely on their goat hunts to keep tthem in business as elk hunt success is dwindling, but goat success is high, so bonuses are there for GO's.
Then, as others said, those sheep hunts....they provide a pretty penny, and give the GO's some pocket money....
are those sheep hunts next???
Lets face it, the GO's and GOABC are on the "chopping block" real fast now, considering many of the hunts are classified
"trophy" by many.
I always thought that we and the FN and GOABC need to come together, but it's obvious, the FN want nothing to do with
us Residents (well except for us laying down the money to transplant certain species in new areas so they can hunt them,
and we are lucky to get 1 or 2 tags for the season etc).
And the only reason is see to align with the GOABC is only because they "have a voice"....but....
They are now on the wrong side of the track when it comes to hunting....for trophy more so then for providing food.
So, do we want to align with them??just because they have a voice??
FN could care less about us, as this new "restriction" shows they don't need us....they are getting it all.
Funny how this keeps coming up....we look to BCWF for a voice.
It's not that they don't want to be there for us....they do!....but they can't (not in a real political voice manner)
Before the next election, we need to have something that represents us "hunters", so that we have an organization
that has some political representation, to let these MLA's know that by slowly taking away hunting rights, they are
removing us from their voting list.
But in the end, I don't think they care....I think they can do without our vote. (kind of scary if you ask me)
I have no clue how the BCWF is different from someone say like the NRA (except NRA has tons of money), and how
they are able to "lobby" in the political forum...but there is a difference.
Maybe the GOABC may want to "join us".....but that means giving up a lot that they wanted in the past if you ask me.
Trophy hunting is on the chopping block....so, do you want to stand beside them, and appear that we Residents are
exactly like that....???(just a question for thought)
No matter how we look at this and sit here and argue amongst ourselves about whether quads should be here or there,
or what the bag limits should be etc, and this and that, we are really not realizing the "landslide" that is sitting above us
right now.
And as some others have stated, it will be over before we know it....
And in the end, us Residents, and us GO's, will be sitting their with our spotting scopes, watching FN driving around,
hunting 24/7, using "OUR" inventions to carry on Their "Traditional Ways".
I am about as ethical as they come out there in the field....
But, if I lose my right to hunt, especially while someone else, because they are of a different color can, you can bet that
I ain't standing for that.
Maybe the BCWF has to become something else, a different organization, that all us Residents can pay into, and feel we have an organization with our voice and some power behind it.
Maybe someone here can tell someone like me "what type of Organization do we need to have some say in the political
arena"???
Cause the ones we have right now are not "cutting it".
But your right, it's not so easy when we all have to work to pay the bills and pay the taxes, (that ironically are handed out
to the FN...to fight us in court etc), and find the time, and more so, the money, to get back "our rights"...or should I say..
"equal rights"
I am not asking to be giving anything more then the FN, but I won't except anything less as well....

[Xenomorph]

Teach your kids the difference between right and wrong, and legal and illegal. Likewise, teach them the difference between a legal system, and a justice system.

Rome burnt while the snowflakes were debating ...are we going to allow ourselves to become snowflakes?

[Ourea]

Double standards? laws and policy based on identity?
Better get used to it, get used to coming out on the losing end of it too.

Our governments have gone full on social justice, equality of outcome over equality of opportunity type ideology.
If you want to know why stuff like this happens, and is going to continue to happen and get much much worse, you must look at the way they now think. They now believe in the concept of equity, meaning everyone ends up with equal outcomes which requires identifying "oppressed groups" based on sex, skin color, religion and sexual identity and giving them special treatments based on their collective group identity. Guess which group comes out on bottom. In order to achieve equity(equal outcome) equal opportunity must be killed off completely, that concept is dead to them. This ideology requires, and will always give rise to an authoritarian state because it requires one, it requires a top down approach to enact. It will always result in massive loss of personal liberty, equality of opportunity as well as the erosion of genuine hierarchies of competency in a society (best person for the job not closest match to arbitrary gender and race quotas) put simply, it is cancer, it is a poisonous sickness in our government and it's especially dangerous because it's not an easy to identify threat to our freedoms. It all seems so virtuous and well meaning, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

GBA+ (http://www.swc-cfc.gc.ca/gba-acs/index-en.html)
Our governments are now running policy and funding decisions through their gender based analysis plus system, its a type of ranking system based on sex, race, religion and sexual identity. It is a social justice ladder of victim status, and the hunters majority demographic, is on the bottom.

"Gender-based Analysis Plus (GBA+) is an analytical tool used to assess how diverse groups of women, men and gender-diverse people may experience policies, programs and initiatives. The “plus” in GBA+ acknowledges that GBA+ goes beyond biological (sex) and socio-cultural (gender) differences. We all have multiple identity factors that intersect to make us who we are; GBA+ also considers many other identity factors, like race, ethnicity, religion, age, and mental or physical disability."

Yes, our government is now making policy decisions based on SEX, GENDER-IDENTITY, RACE and ETHNICITY....
Different groups get different policy.

"What is Gender-based Analysis Plus?Remember that GBA+ is a process for examining how various intersecting identity factors impact the effectiveness of government initiatives. It involves examining disaggregated data and research, and considering social, economic, and cultural conditions and norms. Using GBA+ means taking a gender- and diversity-sensitive approach to your work. Considering all intersecting identity factors as part of GBA+ – not only sex and gender – is a Government of Canada commitment. It can be applied no matter what your role and is relevant in every organization’s work. You may be surprised by what you learn!

Here is short video clip off the government site explaining their difference between equality and equity. It's basically a dressed up version saying, we think some collective group identities deserve more special treatments over others, heres why!

http://www.swc-cfc.gc.ca/gba-acs/course-cours-2017/eng/mod02/mod02_02_01.html
"Are we striving for equity or equality?
We consider sex, gender and other identity factors such as race, ethnicity, religion, age, and mental or physical disability so that we can take actions to promote equality. Not considering these factors can lead to increased inequality. Furthermore, many are confused about the difference between equality and equity."

"Policy developmentApplying GBA+ to policy development is important because women, men and gender-diverse people can experience the same issue differently, even in cases where, on the surface, it does not seem gendered, or to have varying impacts on diverse populations. GBA+ enhances policy development by guiding the gathering of information and analysis needed to inform the best decisions."


Notice they list sex and gender as two separate things :)

"SummaryBoth sex and gender can influence an individual’s experience of federal government policies, programs and initiatives.......
In general, the differential impacts of an initiative will be more about gender (socially constructed roles and relationships) than sex (biological)"


"A targeted example

Sometimes, GBA+ reveals the need for an option that focuses on a particular intersectional group. In such cases, measures are taken to accommodate groups with a particular disadvantage, including a historical disadvantage. Measures may also be taken to prevent groups from being negatively impacted."

"Over one-third of positions at PCO have been identified for mandatory GBA+ training, given their role in providing advice on policy, program and legislative initiatives. This training will also be mandatory for all PCO Executives (EX-01 – EX-05). Promotion and tracking of this training will be integrated with the employee performance management cycle. PCO has set a target to achieve and sustain a 90% rate of completion of this training by the end of September 2016."

As far as I can tell, this GBA+ filter is being pushed as a mandatory step across government policy making and knowledge of this GBA+ is included in performance reviews. In case you don't believe me...that they are pushing this gender, race, religion, sexual identity hierarchy to apply to EVERYTHING, check out their examples of where they use it.

"Illustrating the GBA+ process: Forest sector case studyProgress bar 1 of 8
Let’s apply GBA+ to a case study in forestry, a sector where gender and diversity issues may not be initially apparent."


Get used to it... if you want to guess how this would reflect on policy making for hunters, run our racial, sex, demographic of hunters through their identity politics, victimhood filter and see where we come out.

Holly F*ck.
Dude, we like to hunt....put meat in the freezer and feed our families with healthy organic protein.
You and Jassmine need to stop cuddling so much,

[Sirloin]

------------------------------------------

[skibum]

Setting aside First Nation issues --

ATV bans are coming in the next regulations. The fire just implemented some sooner. Access has been a big concern of ministry biologists.

Concerned about ATV bans, let province know. Personally don't like ATV's, but each his own.

[MichelD]

Leaving the FN issue aside for a moment, I might risk offending some of my good friends here by writing this; but is an ATV ban really worth the "sky is falling" sentiment I see expressed here?

Sure, I can see the utility many find in using them, but if certain designated logging roads still give us access to areas that we can road hunt if we want or hunt on foot, is it really that big an issue?

Maybe I'll get called a Fudd or Old Fogey for saying this but when I started hunting quads were unheard of. People went hunting in the family car or 2WD pickup more often than not and even a 4x4 truck was a specialized piece of equipment.

[Bugle M In]

Leaving the FN issue aside for a moment, I might risk offending some of my good friends here by writing this; but is an ATV ban really worth the "sky is falling" sentiment I see expressed here?

Sure, I can see the utility many find in using them, but if certain designated logging roads still give us access to areas that we can road hunt if we want or hunt on foot, is it really that big an issue?

Maybe I'll get called a Fudd or Old Fogey for saying this but when I started hunting quads were unheard of. People went hunting in the family car or 2WD pickup more often than not and even a 4x4 truck was a specialized piece of equipment.

No, there is nothing wrong by banning the ATV's in my opinion, although, I don't really get it.
If they just say quads have to stay on the mainlines, there shouldn't be an issue....atv's would just be like a truck etc.
I guess they assume that some ATV users, which there are always a few of, won't stick to the rules and will wonder off
the roads.
So yes, it is easier to ban quads outright this season, and have everyone use their trucks.
And some parts of the restriction also apply to vehicles as well, which I think is over done...IMO.
For me, it doesn't mater what rules are applied.....I accept them.
But, I just don't like that there still is this "1 rule for us" and "no rule for them"...
That should be the main focus and disappointment with this latest government restriction/position.

[Fisher-Dude]

Leaving the FN issue aside for a moment, I might risk offending some of my good friends here by writing this; but is an ATV ban really worth the "sky is falling" sentiment I see expressed here?

Sure, I can see the utility many find in using them, but if certain designated logging roads still give us access to areas that we can road hunt if we want or hunt on foot, is it really that big an issue?

Maybe I'll get called a Fudd or Old Fogey for saying this but when I started hunting quads were unheard of. People went hunting in the family car or 2WD pickup more often than not and even a 4x4 truck was a specialized piece of equipment.

I want to ban bicycles and Frenchmen.

Because I don't ride a bike and I'm not French.

SMFH at the "I don't do it so it should be banned" attitude here.

[Takla]

If they start banning atv use in M-U's across B.C the success rate of hunters will fall substancialy,i remember the 'ol days' before ATV's and getting your game every yrs was tougher and getting out it of the bush tougher yet!
personally hope it doesnt happen

takla

[Bugle M In]

I want to ban bicycles and Frenchmen.

Because I don't ride a bike and I'm not French.

SMFH at the "I don't do it so it should be banned" attitude here.

I think what some are saying may be looked at in the wrong light.
Example, I had an area (me and a few other hard hiking folks), that you could only get to by hiking straight up (to get to the good spot) for 3 hours.
Excellent deer hunting spot in November, but you had to work hard to get there.
By putting in the hard work, you were rewarded with some great opportunities.
But, then came along the dirt bike club, blazed a trail up....
Note: a trail never existed....nothing.
From the top of that trail, all they needed to do was make a further trail over to the "good spot".
So now, as you can imagine, the spot is "not so good"
I have seen 300+ pound guys up there, just tooling around, making a trail as they go.
This guy couldn't even get off the quad to walk 100 yards.
So, all day you see quads and side by sides, driving around on "no road system" at all.
Now, the rancher has decided to "close it"....not because he is anti-hunting, but he is trying to protect his grazing lease
grassland.....I understand that.
But, in the end, there are some, like me, who see that ATV's have been a detriment to the habitat and some of the hunting
opportunities that existed before they came on the scene.
If the quads would stay on roads, spur roads, and some true trails, there probably wouldn't be this "divide" amongst us
hunters.
Funny how every time the government or the Anti's do something to upset our previous situation with bans and restrictions, we just end up "dumping" on ourselves.
I hope we can all see this, and what we ourselves are doing to our own hunting community here.
Stuff like this really just reminds me how bad our situation is, and just how close we are to not being able to hunt in the
future.
There seems to be a missing organization for us to "rally behind" and to once again have a voice.
Between the Anti's Out Cries, The FN complacency, and the Government's Idiocy, we are "Royally F*****", if this
is the best that we can do amongst ourselves.

[Rupert Retired]

I think this ban is the thin edge of the wedge. For all those of you who shrug and state that it doesn't affect you, and so it is fine, well it does affect you and it is not fine. One of this government's first acts was to ban the Grizzly Bear hunt. Now it is quad access on a thin excuse of increased access in the fire areas. This is a bogus excuse. There is absolutely no increased access possible in 3-28 for instance. Why not just draw a line around the fire and exclude quads from that area? Why not just say, no use off road, as they did all summer with trucks, and still banned ATVs outright. I use my ATV to save fuel, it is expensive using a truck all the time, as all of you know. Also it saves a few scratches on my truck on some roads. I never go off a designated road anyway.

This has to hurt all the ATV businesses out there, as the summertime fire ban must have hurt - no regular servicing, no breakdowns, no additional goodies being sold - I sure hope they are lobbying the government to change this idiotic rule. It definitely benefits gas stations, who will gain from these restrictions. It also hurts us ATV users wallets. And, it is one more step down the road to more restrictions, just watch. If they get away with this with only some minor complaints, they won't hesitate to move further next year.

[pnbrock]

It's really unfortunate the only thing hunters can agree on is we will loose hunting,and ain't nobody gonna step up and put a stop too the special interest group.

[Busterbrown]

I think this ban is the thin edge of the wedge. For all those of you who shrug and state that it doesn't affect you, and so it is fine, well it does affect you and it is not fine. One of this government's first acts was to ban the Grizzly Bear hunt. Now it is quad access on a thin excuse of increased access in the fire areas. This is a bogus excuse. There is absolutely no increased access possible in 3-28 for instance. Why not just draw a line around the fire and exclude quads from that area? Why not just say, no use off road, as they did all summer with trucks, and still banned ATVs outright. I use my ATV to save fuel, it is expensive using a truck all the time, as all of you know. Also it saves a few scratches on my truck on some roads. I never go off a designated road anyway.

This has to hurt all the ATV businesses out there, as the summertime fire ban must have hurt - no regular servicing, no breakdowns, no additional goodies being sold - I sure hope they are lobbying the government to change this idiotic rule. It definitely benefits gas stations, who will gain from these restrictions. It also hurts us ATV users wallets. And, it is one more step down the road to more restrictions, just watch. If they get away with this with only some minor complaints, they won't hesitate to move further next year.
You are absolutely correct, this is the sharp edge of the wedge...I have property in 3-29 and use my ATV everyday...stay on the trails and FSR hike in to my favourite spots. The fire is 50km from my place yet they throw a ban on the entire region. It has nothing to do with the burned area, the new Green/NDP are itching to satisfy the special interest groups who are looking for a TOTAL ban. Everyone should be very concerned, this is just the start. What next, Sheep hunt bans ?? Goat hunt bans?? it started with the grizzly issue based on emotion and zero science...I have a call in to the CO service in Kamloops, however no response. Everyone needs to call them

[Bugle M In]

You are absolutely correct, this is the sharp edge of the wedge...I have property in 3-29 and use my ATV everyday...stay on the trails and FSR hike in to my favourite spots. The fire is 50km from my place yet they throw a ban on the entire region. It has nothing to do with the burned area, the new Green/NDP are itching to satisfy the special interest groups who are looking for a TOTAL ban. Everyone should be very concerned, this is just the start. What next, Sheep hunt bans ?? Goat hunt bans?? it started with the grizzly issue based on emotion and zero science...I have a call in to the CO service in Kamloops, however no response. Everyone needs to call them

Don't mean to discourage you about calling the CO in your area, but, the policy unfortunately isn't made by them.
You can ask to see who is....
Does anyone here know who direct contact should be made to in the Ministry for R3?
What is their position?
Calling the MLA is worth a shot, but sadly that is probably a waste of time if it is NDP.

[Rupert Retired]

I would suggest getting in touch with your local MLA, the present Minister (don't even know who that is, but I intend to find out), and the BCWF if you are a member, there is strength in numbers, and I know that the government may not listen to individuals, but they will listen (or at least a much bigger chance) if you are affiliated with a group such as the BC Wildlife Federation. I just found out about this yesterday, but intend to notify everyone who may listen, I think you all should do the same.

[Rupert Retired]

Here is my letter to the Minister:

Dear Minister Donaldson, Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development:

I refer you to this release:


http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/regulations/2016-2018/2017_atv_hp_elephanthills.pdf (http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/regulations/2016-2018/2017_atv_hp_elephanthills.pdf)


This is a totally bogus ATV ban. The stated reason is to prevent ATV use off-road in burned areas. This is totally false in particular in GMA 3-28, the only fire there was the Thuya Creek fire, and there is no way that any ATV could traverse any of the burned area (way too steep). The ministry could have said, "no ATV use off a roadway", or "no ATV use in a defined area", and draw a map around the fire area they are trying to protect. There is no way that this huge ATV closed area is justified.


In addition, this ban will dramatically increase the consumption of fossil fuels, and do nothing to protect wildlife that may be vulnerable due to the fires that a smaller ban would not do. By banning the use of ATVs in this huge area, it forces hunters to use their trucks. The fuel use of an ATV for a day is about 15 liters. For a truck it is about 150 liters. Yes, it is that dramatic. I use about 10% of the fuel using my ATV than I would using my diesel truck. And I never go off the designated roads.


I am strongly encouraging you to discuss this issue with your staff, and reverse this decision. There are much better ways to accomplish the goals that have been enunciated, with way less harm to both the environment and the wallets of hunters! Thank you for your attention to this matter.


Sincerely,


I would encourage all you hunters to do the same! (yes, you can copy and modify as needed). This is really important, especially in this formative stage of the new government.

[HarryToolips]

That's a very good letter Rupert, thanks for posting..

[Lillypuff]

So now I have to mile up the company truck. Put on the chains regularly and drive the steep nasty road to get to the area I hunt? Which is at least 60km from the fire. Man this bugs me I have a better tool for the job and the boss is telling me not to use it��. The n d p is awful

[Fisher-Dude]

If they start banning atv use in M-U's across B.C the success rate of hunters will fall substancialy,i remember the 'ol days' before ATV's and getting your game every yrs was tougher and getting out it of the bush tougher yet!
personally hope it doesnt happen

takla

Success rate for hunters has not increased whatsoever with the advent of ATV use.

Statistics show that days per kill has not decreased over the past 40 years.

[REMINGTON JIM]

As USUAL the Gov :frown: has put way to much THOUGHT ?????? into this Ban ! :roll: This was all brought about by the POOR hard done by FN.s ! Guess who caused -started the WHOLE problem we have now - Ashcroft FN's ! :-( But we pay the price again along with DOUBLE STANDARDS too ! :mad: RJ

[Keta1969]

Success rate for hunters has not increased whatsoever with the advent of ATV use.

Statistics show that days per kill has not decreased over the past 40 years.

While this may be true who's to say that that the stable success rate is not because of the use of quads. With technological change I feel it's a mistake to assume that stable harvest rates mean there is no problem. I have hunted the area that Bugle M IN mentions and his comments are spot on.Guys that are running their quads up there could be charged for at least 3 offences under the rules for site and access restrictions. I don't think either of us are seeking a ban on quads but because there aren't the funds for proper enforcement a ban is the easiest way that the powers that be have available to them. If you read the regs there are definitions for motorcycles, quads/atvs, motor vehicles and vehicles. It reads to me that quads are restricted to roads that a "vehicle" can travel, and I understand a vehicle to mean something that is licensed for highway use. So keep them on the FSR roads and spurs or other roads that a "vehicle" can travel. They shouldn't be used to make trails into pristine game habitat because people are to lazy to walk in or pack out their animal. The game is there because it's undisturbed.

[Bugle M In]

Funny thing is, the general public doesn't care about what the FN are up to.
After that Vegas shooting, my wife stated that things need to change, that auto's need to be banned etc.
I said that would be hard to do, since so many exist out there already, and after this, more sales happen do to the risk
of them being banned.....
But, then I say to her, that FN issues, such as this latest Restriction "that FN are exempt"... again ... and all the other
issues, such as not reporting what they take etc etc....
That that needs to change as well....
Her answer:
"You can't change that":cry::confused:.....
Wow, was I disappointed by that statement...
Granted, the Vegas incident is a much more extreme situation etc, and not trying to compare the 2 at all....
But funny, how one problem, you can start somewhere, and the other "will never change".....
But, that is the mentality of the general public.
IT's as if we need to start an "advertising campaign" on social media to show the public just how much the FN
misstate and abuse their rights....cause the public just doesn't see it....
Without seeing it, they just don't care, cause it never crosses their mind.

[pnbrock]

I also argue with my family over the statement,why get so worked up you can't change it they will do what they want anyway.

[Linksman313]

Once again we are not on the agenda, but others have a permanent place there under the NDP
I have a feeling I am going to need one of these before all of this is finished -

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thisisthat/ottawa-rage-room-stay-at-home-dad-disgrace-lightning-town-1.4332833/ottawa-defends-spending-millions-on-secret-rage-room-for-mps-1.4332887

[Bugle M In]

Once again we are not on the agenda, but others have a permanent place there under the NDP
I have a feeling I am going to need one of these before all of this is finished -

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thisisthat/ottawa-rage-room-stay-at-home-dad-disgrace-lightning-town-1.4332833/ottawa-defends-spending-millions-on-secret-rage-room-for-mps-1.4332887

I hear you...
Some of my problems would be cleared up if I could just leave the lower mainland...
But, then again....Am I just turning my back on the problems/issues???

[Sirloin]

---------------------------------------

[IronNoggin]

That link ain't working.
This one might: https://globalnews.ca/news/3787984/federal-government-to-announce-payout-of-800m-to-indigenous-victims-of-60s-scoop/

Cheers,
Nog

[skibum]

How about a cool $800 Million from federal government to the indigenous, plus an extra $50 million dollar healing foundation. Just announced.

http://https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/3787984/federal-government-to-announce-payout-of-800m-to-indigenous-victims-of-60s-scoop/amp/


For them to buy hunting ATV's in region 3?

[whognu]

How about a cool $800 Million from federal government to the indigenous, plus an extra $50 million dollar healing foundation. Just announced.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3787984/federal-government-to-announce-payout-of-800m-to-indigenous-victims-of-60s-scoop/


yupper $25 - 40k per person for being forcibly taken from your family as a child just because you're an indian..............f me, at least understand what your bitching about

chris

[Sirloin]

------------------------------------

[whognu]

Hard to disagree

pretty obvious to say things need to be finalized once and for all

in a perfect world we would have a national, Canada wide solution

seems so g damned obvious

"list all your wishes and they will all be addressed and settled by X date 5 years from now"

after that date there is nothing else to conclude

please understand that that was then and this is now

there has been a lot of mistakes made; some can be fixed with cash and property and some can
never be fixed

This is the 21st century and aboriginals represent about 4-5% of the population

they fully understand they can't have 300% of Canada

they also probably understand and want a conclusion to this ongoing conflict

Not concluding simply leaves them in "no
mans land" and the rest of us "white guys" in guilt

I honestly believe that the vast majority of aboriginals want to move on

i half believe it's the lawyers that are the problem

I have no faith that things will change and my kids will be having the same discussions in 30 years

going to chase deer this weekend

xoxo

[Dannybuoy]

yupper $25 - 40k per person for being forcibly taken from your family as a child just because you're an indian..............f me, at least understand what your bitching about

chris
Back at you ..... $25 - $40 k for getting rescued, educated and given a chance to succeed in life would be a more accurate assessment

[338win mag]

De-rail
After 2 generations of my family in residential school, some still living, none received any money or compensation, dont go there with me but please have a good smile on your face so I can pick out which teeth I'll be happy to knock out while putting them down for being 5-10 years old and removed, I'll rescue you for free.
Anyone who thinks light of this subject is an asshole.

[whognu]

Back at you ..... $25 - $40 k for getting rescued, educated and given a chance to succeed in life would be a more accurate assessment

what people like you do not, or choose not to realize is that this issue is about children, small vulnerable children

tens of thousands of children

happily living their lives with their parents - in ways that they chose

and ways they have chosen for thousands of years

then along comes "the government" who forcibly takes these children away to indoctrinate them in western based religious schools

'and beat the indian out of them'

here's the takeaway, every race on the planet loves their children equally

think about your kids or grand kids one day being rounded up by 'the government', told you were shit parents and taken far away


to not understand and accept that this is pathetic

chris

ps. I've said all I can on this, no need to reply

[Fisher-Dude]

While this may be true who's to say that that the stable success rate is not because of the use of quads. With technological change I feel it's a mistake to assume that stable harvest rates mean there is no problem. I have hunted the area that Bugle M IN mentions and his comments are spot on.Guys that are running their quads up there could be charged for at least 3 offences under the rules for site and access restrictions. I don't think either of us are seeking a ban on quads but because there aren't the funds for proper enforcement a ban is the easiest way that the powers that be have available to them. If you read the regs there are definitions for motorcycles, quads/atvs, motor vehicles and vehicles. It reads to me that quads are restricted to roads that a "vehicle" can travel, and I understand a vehicle to mean something that is licensed for highway use. So keep them on the FSR roads and spurs or other roads that a "vehicle" can travel. They shouldn't be used to make trails into pristine game habitat because people are to lazy to walk in or pack out their animal. The game is there because it's undisturbed.

Explain to us in the context of antler restrictions, shortened seasons, and widespread use of LEH, with the majority of harvest being male animals, the scientific basis for your position.

You'll have to highlight conservation concerns, rather than the "I don't like it when a quad rides by me" standard social answer.

[wideopenthrottle]

um so here is a sticking point...you can drive your quad if you are not legally hunting...so can you carry a rifle if you are not legally hunting?...if so then who is to say you are even hunting..perhaps just joyriding with a gun on board...so you spot some game.....get off the quad...walk over ...shoot it on foot and drive off till dark...come back at dark (because you can not legally hunt at night) and retrieve your game....I klnow I am being over the top about it but it seems unenforceable to me...

[Bugle M In]

I don't want to see Quads banned.
I myself don't own one, but as I get older, it may be my only way to hunt.
I have friends with Quads, and they use them responsibly.
Meaning, they stay on the roads.
The advantage of them is that they can get into some roads that have been partly deactivated (for water run out),
in which are too deep for trucks to go thru.
They are cheaper on gas, and guys don't have to worry about busting up their trucks as much etc (as some have mentioned)
I just would like to see them "stay on roads and spur roads only" and some trails that are "approved" for quads.
One thing in the right direction was to have them "licensed", but more importantly, have "plates" on them.
If they are breaking the rules, at least now they can be reported easier.
But, again, they should be banned for going off road completely (that's my opinion).
The bigger issue is the OP, and allowing FN the right to drive/quad in, while we have to walk in.
If it is such a "sensitive zone" due to the fires, then why is one group given "full access with vehicles"
Again, it should be fair/eqaul, straight across the board...(nothing racist there )

[338win mag]

I don't want to see Quads banned.
I myself don't own one, but as I get older, it may be my only way to hunt.
I have friends with Quads, and they use them responsibly.
Meaning, they stay on the roads.
The advantage of them is that they can get into some roads that have been partly deactivated (for water run out),
in which are too deep for trucks to go thru.
They are cheaper on gas, and guys don't have to worry about busting up their trucks as much etc (as some have mentioned)
I just would like to see them "stay on roads and spur roads only" and some trails that are "approved" for quads.
One thing in the right direction was to have them "licensed", but more importantly, have "plates" on them.
If they are breaking the rules, at least now they can be reported easier.
But, again, they should be banned for going off road completely (that's my opinion).
The bigger issue is the OP, and allowing FN the right to drive/quad in, while we have to walk in.
If it is such a "sensitive zone" due to the fires, then why is one group given "full access with vehicles"
Again, it should be fair/eqaul, straight across the board...(nothing racist there )
I would like to see the answer some of the decision makers would have in reference to your questions bugle, I dont have a quad either but was thing about getting one, I'm going to re-think that now.

[Rupert Retired]

um so here is a sticking point...you can drive your quad if you are not legally hunting...so can you carry a rifle if you are not legally hunting?...if so then who is to say you are even hunting..perhaps just joyriding with a gun on board...so you spot some game.....get off the quad...walk over ...shoot it on foot and drive off till dark...come back at dark (because you can not legally hunt at night) and retrieve your game....I klnow I am being over the top about it but it seems unenforceable to me...

No, wideopenthrottle, they got you covered. Here is the language they use, the same as other motor restrictions in the Province: "The operation of All Terrain Vehicles to hunt wildlife, transport wildlife, transport equipment and supplies which are intended for or in support of hunting, or transport hunters to and from the location of wildlife is prohibited in the area outlined...". I would assume this language has been tested in court, it has been around for a while.

[horshur]

No, wideopenthrottle, they got you covered. Here is the language they use, the same as other motor restrictions in the Province: "The operation of All Terrain Vehicles to hunt wildlife, transport wildlife, transport equipment and supplies which are intended for or in support of hunting, or transport hunters to and from the location of wildlife is prohibited in the area outlined...". I would assume this language has been tested in court, it has been around for a while.

in 3:28 we just got rid of this language..go back a couple years and see that snowmobiles were not permited for hunting...and that regulation went back to late 60s early 70's...finaly predator hunter(cougar) could use a sled....which benefits folks who hunt ungulates.

[Rupert Retired]

So, horshur, I'm listening. How do we get rid of this ATV ban in 3-28?

[horshur]

I don't know....

[ve7iuq]

i just don't get it . When is the Gov't going to stop segregating.

NEVER. This is just the thin edge of the vice, so far.

[REMINGTON JIM]

I will pack my rifle even if i am ONLY exploring the country - I have the RIGHT to protect myself while out HIKING ! There are G Bears and Black Bears in that area of country ! The Gov can go Phuck themselves I will take my chances with a JUDGE if they want to Charge me with WHAT ? PROTECTING myself from a Bear attack if NESS while out in the Boondocks ? jmo RJ

[hparrott]

The regs and news update from September specifically state the orv restriction for these areas in region 3 was for sep to dec 10 (as noted in the regs). Anyone know if you can use an atv for hunting in these areas now, come spring bear. Logically I'm guessing no, but i can't find anything in writing to suppport this specific restriction remains in effect beyond dec 10. I emailed fish and wildlife and conservation 2x but no response.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/regulations/2016-2018/hunting-trapping-synopsis-2016-2018-region3.pdf

[Bugle M In]

my hunting partners are wondering the same thing.

[bcsteve]

Keep us posted. Planing on going on that area for Bear this spring as well. I’m thinking it’s good to go if they wrote down a date range. Outside that date range it should be good to go.

[bownut]

Cut out the roads and solve it all..

[LYKTOHUNT]

I have concerns, one that only natives can use ORV which is racist discriminating against everyone that is non native, the other is they say when things improve, they will allow ORV back in to hunt, I do not believe that will ever happen,once its gone it aint coming back

[Ohwildwon]

Set up a road block..:lol:

[white moose]

Logically i'm guessing you can. Closure was just til the end of last years hunting season. Why ask and make a federal case about it?

[Jelvis]

-- Province can't stop a Status Indian from hunting if he or she has a Status Card, registered in Ottawa. If your a Native or First Nation, with out, a Status Card, your the same as a white person is, no benefits, if no Status Card.-- Province, can't stop, the Status Indians, they have a Federal boss, the Federal Government, not the province. Crown Land is Federal not provincial --
-- Even if the province wanted too or tried to, they would be hit by the Federal government for not following the Indian Act, which gives rights.
-- Having a right to do it, is different then being allowed by the province to do it. The province has no right over a Status Indian, the Federal government runs the Indian Affairs.
Jel -- this is where most hunters get mixed up, they think BC, can just step in and stop an Indian, from hunting a certain area, bag limit, certain type of animule, or hunting a certain time of year or a certain time of day. A sustenance hunter's role is to help feed the elderly and weak who can't hike and shoot and drag and cut up a 180 pound mule deer for food.
- Province can't, even if they pretend they can. They won't tell you that. Their politicians they work all sides to their advantage -- if you can't believe me here
Ask someone you know good, who is a worker in the field, yet at the back yard barby, when off duty, if you know each other real good, over a beer. Then you will understand how it actually works, not a mystery like most play ignorant, on purpose, so they don't get written up.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Closed from Sept 1 - Dec 10 ANY year including this year the way i read it ! :confused: :evil: But from Dec 10 till Sept 1 should be OPEN ! :confused: :shock: RJ

[browningboy]

The natives will get fat bank accounts and timmies accounts with Trudeau, can’t wait until they decimate everything and then wonder what the f happened! Just so tired of the two tiered system here

[srupp]

Hmm if you shut it down IN THE NAME OF CONSERVATION..it's not challegable. .it supercedes natives agendas.
Shut it down in those regions for conservation.
Hmm i am old and considered physically handicapped..the quad now gets me into areas ON TRAILS.to hunt..maybe those that don't or can't buy one might consider those that need them..and maybe they just might get old..or get hurt..and d need the help.
The bullshit the natives are peddling on just them..their hereditary rights..well ride a horse..and stop selling the meat outside the traditional government liquor store !
Yes I have seen the reserve hunters in action..in a good way on Kitwanga" reserve.yes helping the old, the handicapped..it did work well there but strict limits..and very strict days out hunting..no trophies..meat..
I was there building in their church..a pulpit..some repairs as a woodworker..saw it the day they came in with 5 moose..cut it up and delivered with respect. .so it does happen.
Srupp

[303savage]

the new restrictions do not apply to First Nations exercising Aboriginal rights to hunt.

Well that's a kick in the nuts for the non-native hunters :-(

[303savage]

the new restrictions do not apply to First Nations

The first nations did not have ATVs so why does the restrictions not apply to them?
Getting tired of the 2 tiered hunting and fishing regulations.

[hparrott]

Logically i'm guessing you can. Closure was just til the end of last years hunting season. Why ask and make a federal case about it?


If if you read the closure notice, it is obvious that the closure is for the long haul and not just a 3 month span. Why ask? Cause I want to know. The closure states, “the restrictions are expected to be in place until access and visibility conditions return to a state where wildlife is less vulnerable.” Bc wildfire service put in a huge number of firebreaks and these run through all the clear cuts and trails everywhere in the area I used to hunt, giving animals very little cover amongst an area that now provides very easy access. The area is burnt out and you can see for what seems like miles through the burnt out vegetation and fallen debris. Between August and now, that region will not have returned to a state where these firebreaks have grown over and access has been reduced. So based on their reason for the restriction, logically the restriction would still be in place and not just for 3 months of one hunting season. Those that reside in the area know how how areas of these regions were decimated by fire. Given it was closed for hunting in the fall, I assume most haven’t seen it and haven’t had their jaw hit the floor yet, but will when they do. If bears made it through the winter having little food in late fall, predator control would be beneficial for these areas hit hard by fire.

[Jelvis]

hparrot folks, read thee above and know, the score for sure, on what's actually been studied and viewed, in these Management Units ---- :shock: ---
Jel

[white moose]

The closure says til Dec10th so why wouldn't it be open this spring?

[303savage]

use of all motor vehicles for the purpose of licensed hunting is prohibited

Why thi f""k don't just say white people aren't allowed to use motor in those areas. If the Fricking government don't quit kissing native ass there might be a rebellion.

[Wild one]

Why thi f""k don't just say white people aren't allowed to use motor in those areas. If the Fricking government don't quit kissing native ass there might be a rebellion.

Because east India’s, black and Asian people are not allowed to either lol

I get your point it’s racist just had to poke a little fun

[russm86]

The closure says til Dec10th so why wouldn't it be open this spring?

I think you are looking at the wrong thing. The closure in question is an amendment that was added after last fire season and has no listed dates. My understanding is the closure is "until further notice" which I don't believe will be lifted anytime soon, if ever.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/regulations/2016-2018/hunting-trapping-synopsis-2016-2018-corrections.pdf

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/regulations/2016-2018/2017_atv_hp_elephanthills.pdf

[hparrott]

I think you are looking at the wrong thing. The closure in question is an amendment that was added after last fire season and has no listed dates. My understanding is the closure is "until further notice" which I don't believe will be lifted anytime soon, if ever.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/regulations/2016-2018/hunting-trapping-synopsis-2016-2018-corrections.pdf

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/regulations/2016-2018/2017_atv_hp_elephanthills.pdf

No the update was then added into the actual regs for 16-18 and highlighted in red, with the specific dates.

[white moose]

So, would you not think it would be open for spring bear, according to the dates?

[LYKTOHUNT]

So, would you not think it would be open for spring bear, according to the dates?
u
ATV for Hunting Closed Areas:
The
oper
ation
of all ATVs to
hunt wildlife,
transpo
rt wildlife
, tr anspo
rt equipment
and supplies which are intended for
or in suppor
t of hunting,
or transpo
rt
hunters to and from the location
of
wildlife is prohibited
in Management
Units 3-28,
3-29 and
3-30
, and that
portion
of M.U. 3-17 north of
Highway
99
,
from Sept 1 to Dec 10.

Looks to me like ATV is fine unless you are hunting Sept 1 to Dec 10, which is good for bear season and wouldnt hurt to get rid of a few more predators

[white moose]

That's how I read it. Some people cant see it I guess

[303savage]

There is nothing worse than parking at the start of a trail and walk in and have a couple atvs roar up past you and not even stop to B.S.

I heard that it happened to a guy and the ATVs were at the trail and he ripped their gas lines off and went home.

[horshur]

Google search " identity politics"and listen or read a few articles. Try " the dangers of identity politics "
I think you will get a clearer picture of the Why. But think about the shit storm a while back with the Resident guide conflict. That fight was promoted using the same identity politics. It is a common political strategy but who gains?

[Stroodle]

There is nothing worse than parking at the start of a trail and walk in and have a couple atvs roar up past you and not even stop to B.S.

I heard that it happened to a guy and the ATVs were at the trail and he ripped their gas lines off and went home.
While I agree somewhat about hiking up a trail and having a couple of atvs (or mountain bikers or other hikers or cross country skiers or anyone who gets ahead of me) pass you and not even stop to BS is a bit rude, and then saying you heard it happened to a guy... I will take with a grain of salt. It does bring up a request for clarity question though - were the atvs allowed on that trail? If so, you can piss and moan all you want but all you are saying is you want to restrict that groups passion such as hunting is to us. If the atvs were not supposed to be there - report them - they all have plates (or should) - I don't have a problem with consequences for my actions (I'm a non-millennial obviously) . I've owned and operated atvs/utvs since my first in 1984. I have over 100,000kms under my belt on these (for sure more but that's beside the point). I have always made a point of slowing down past hikers/others on a trail/road as courtesy and I know all don't - that is a problem, I usually at least say hello. I follow most the rules set out and I still have these crusty buggers that think I shouldn't be somewhere - fair enough, to each their own BUT if I came back to find my machine screwed with you would see an entirely different person than that courteous polite fellow that went by you earlier. I do put up game cams on occasion when I park in areas I've had conflict before just in case some lowlife decides he thinks he knows what's best.

[REMINGTON JIM]

[QUOTE=303savage;199496

I heard that it happened to a guy and the ATVs were at the trail and he ripped their gas lines off and went home.[/QUOTE]

That would be a very DANGEROUS thing to do to my ATV Im Not Recommending anyone ever do that ! RJ

[Jelvis]

Do not, commit, a criminal activity, on, no one, especially, hunters or others in the bush. This, is beyond, what the public wants to see, or have done, in BC, especially, we have lots, of access to world class, wilderness, all around, us, especially, in Reg 3.

Jel -- hands off other's property -- no touchy -- let's choose, to obey, the laws, of the land, folks -- B.C. is the greatest place to live and hunt - let's keep it like dat!

[REMINGTON JIM]

Do not, commit, a criminal activity on no one, especially hunters or others in the bush. This is beyond what the public wants to see or have done in BC especially we have lots of access to world class wilderness all around us especially in Reg 3.

Jel -- hands off other's property -- no touchy --

Yes Sir - As much as it pisses a GUY off ! people cannot Touch- Harm others property ! I would have liked to Flatten some tires a few times myself BUT common sense kept me from it ! JD

[M.Dean]

I think all use of ATV's in the province should be banned , Native and non-native. the only people who can use an ATV for hunting,
should be a senior ( over 65 ) or a handicapped person. As far as I'm concerned , don't call yourself a hunter, if thats all you do is
drive around and around looking for game. Jeez, I'm all of the above and I've shot lots of animals well riding my quad? Wonder what I'm do'in wrong? Maybe it's cuz I ain't ripp'in around at 50 MPH? Or maybe it's just cuz I know where the moose and deer are, don't know? If I knew how to post pic's I'd just love to show you 8 or 10 pic's of some of the critter's I've taken over the last number of years well rid'in my quad! And I've done all of this well being a Elder (over 60), and being handicapped and being one of them "Natives" too! And just cuz I hunt off my quad doesn't make me any less of a hunter than someone who doesn't hunt from a quad, it makes me someone who own's a quad and likes to go home with a dead animal strapped on the back rack! I follow the rules sames as you, and if our so called government say's I can hunt off my quad, I'm going too, same as 99 percent of every other person out there would! Maybe, just for fun, take a drive all over the area's so mentioned by our government where "just Natives" are allowed to ride there quads for hunting purposes this fall and let me know how many Natives you see from dawn till dusk, I'm just guess'in you'll see more Immature bull moose runn"in down the roads than quads with Natives at the wheel!

[russm86]

No the update was then added into the actual regs for 16-18 and highlighted in red, with the specific dates.

Ok, didn't see the update in the actual regs. Not sure why they wouldn't show the dates in the amendment though, that's really stupid on their part.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Ok, didn't see the update in the actual regs. Not sure why they wouldn't show the dates in the amendment though, that's really stupid on their part.

Russ EVERYTHING is stupid on the goverments part and More so since the NDP got back in -Complete IDIOTS running things in Most Departments ! JMO RJ

[browningboy]

So I’m going to my cabin at loon lake this Tuesday or Wednesday and bringing my razor, it’s 3-30 so I’m not allowed to ride? I haven’t seen anything stating I can’t in which is obvious? Not hunting just riding..

[white moose]

Ride away its all good

[bcsteve]

So I’m going to my cabin at loon lake this Tuesday or Wednesday and bringing my razor, it’s 3-30 so I’m not allowed to ride? I haven’t seen anything stating I can’t in which is obvious? Not hunting just riding..
You’re not hunting and it’s not between September 1 and December 10, you’re good.

[buck400]

Does this include trail bikes can you run those in that area

[limit time]

I guess the FN have a constitutional and treaty right to hunt, while for "white eyes" it is a privilege.:???:
I guess that could mean they also have a right to keep and bear arms ?

[walks with deer]

lol i was in a burn in 3-26 one day after work up there in my areial blind waiting for a evening whitetail to poke his nose out when...i hear it in the distance a buzz of 2 strokes in the distance...now i do not condone drinking and hunting but this evening i had brought one beer into the blind to nurse until sundown...
as the buzz became closer i realized they where no longer on a road or trail but ripping through the burn...as i watched these meat heads rip and tear all regrowth in front of me i felt my temper flair..
suddenly there was movement at the base of my blind the unsuspecting victim froze navigating where they would go next.... i took my shot!
the opened beer hurtled through the air and hit the two stroker in the helmet soaking his torso in beer..
we need more inforcment on habitat damage around kamloops than anything else..

[walks with deer]

the victim went from fear too anger too defeat...

everyone is allowed there own recreation but habitat destruction is all to common..

[horshur]

[QUOTE=walks with deer;2018751]lol i was in a burn in 3-26 one day after work up there in my areial blind waiting for a evening whitetail to poke his nose out when...i hear it in the distance a buzz of 2 strokes in the distance...now i do not condone drinking and hunting but this evening i had brought one beer into the blind to nurse until sundown...
as the buzz became closer i realized they where no longer on a road or trail but ripping through the burn...as i watched these meat heads rip and tear all regrowth in front of me i felt my temper flair..
suddenly there was movement at the base of my blind the unsuspecting victim froze navigating where they would go next.... i took my shot!
the opened beer hurtled through the air and hit the two stroker in the helmet soaking his torso in beer..
we need more inforcment on habitat damage around kamloops than anything else..[/QUOTE

up silver creek? Designated riding area.

[walks with deer]

no not silver creek and not designated..

i had a freind report them.