Rough news out of Squamish... dog shot.

[markathome]

http://www.squamishchief.com/news/local-news/dog-accidentally-shot-and-killed-by-hunter-1.22814808


Not sure what to say... pretty bad optics for Sea to Sky hunters.

[keoke]

i have a liver color gwp, if he was chest deep in water he would look like a moose. i allways have bandana on his neck or a hi vis vest on him out in the bush.

[whitlers]

Well that's not good. Feel for the family of the dog. Terrible thing to happen.

It raises two good issues:

1) Hunters properly identifying targets

2) Dog owners taking the extra step to identify their dogs (and I am in no way blaming the owner here)

My dog looks like a coyote so she wears a red vest when we go on hikes. Just makes me feel better.

[RiverOtter]

Shot at 20 feet? Was the dog acting aggressive? Hard time believing someone could not make a positive ID at spitting distance.

[Dash]

Oh wow.. that's really sad :(

[srupp]

Hmmm story doesn't make sense to me..20 feet?
Steven

[Buckmeister]

Unfortunate story. I would think the hunter mistook it for a young wolf. And wolf is open right now in 2-5 and 2-6.

Not to make excuses for the situation, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a dog off leash by itself out in bush or on crown land be construed as a wolf, especially if it is engaged in wolf like behavior? (ie: chasing deer) A domestic pig, once it's escaped it's confines and has stepped foot off of the "farm", is immediately considered feral.

When I lived on my families 650 acre property I came across a "dog" high up on the land. It was the ugliest mutt I have ever seen, dappled brown in color, but very large and extremely muscular in the front. Although the land is remote, there is a campsite nearby and people and horseback riders often go walking with their dogs in the area, so I thought it might belong to someone because it did not look like any typical wolf. It looked at me for a few seconds then shot uphill quickly. The next spring I found a dead wolf pup right on top of the mountain the same color as the "dog" I saw from before. My point is, some wolves look like dogs, and some dogs look like wolves.

[markathome]

Well let's all take a second and think about what a small town newspaper resources look like - thin to win at best. Most reporters are underpaid and pulled in many many directions, and let's face it - newspaper journalism isn't what it was even 10 years ago. So only one side was interviewed and the RCMP - not the hunter and not the CO.

My guess is new hunter, no mentor and made a very bad decision. The area he was hunting has very poor populations of any harvest able animal and is a very popular hiking area for locals and visitors. If he had walked across the highway and gained 1000m in elevation he would have been into BT country at the edge of the park.

[chele]

Very sad news. As a dog owner I feel the pain of the owners ... I remember once I was hiking to sky pilot mountain with my dog and I encountered a hunter along the logging road glassing down the road. He had probably spotted us for a while ago since it was a switch back road and I was doing what I had to do Tobe seen and heard. Even though the area didn't have the gondola yet. The logging road was pretty much the only access to the trail head and I couldn't help not to be worried for my dog after that.

The only justification I can see for the hunter is that he got surprise by the dog and shot him thinking it was another predator.

Too bad that most of the news don't have a closing statement from the authorities and are left open to the imagination of the public. I hope this is not the case.

[Chopper]

Nothing will come of this .... If your walking your dog in a shooting area ... it better have high viz on it.

Terrible none the less

[scotty30-06]

Very upsetting story....only thing that upsets me more is the two comment made on this thread ....pretty disgusting for hbc memebers to type that kinda stuff.

[squamishhunter]

Another reason to put hi viz on dogs. Have both mine wearing flagging tape necklaces year round, lotsa wolves here up north.

[Fozzie]

Totally agree with you scotty30-06. It's the reason I hardly venture on here anymore. Too many idiots like IslandWanderer and J_06.

[campking]

Totally agree with you scotty30-06. It's the reason I hardly venture on here anymore. Too many idiots like IslandWanderer and J_06.
Agree there comments are completely unacceptable to me, a great indicator of what type of people they are!

[wideopenthrottle]

it happens...I remember when I worked forest fire fighting, one of the crew leaders worked as one of the few full time foresters in the off season..he told me about him and another guy cruising the river in a forestry boat when they spotted 2 wolves on shore...they went ashore and shot them....a few minutes later as they were recovering them and old indian fellow walks out and says...."hey you shot my dogs"..they were big husky sled type dogs with no collars or anything

[Ron.C]

Very unfortunate for sure. I don't care if you are a hunter or non hunter, to see your dog get shot would be devastating. And I do feel for the hunter. Mistakes happen and sometimes they are costly.

I'm with Fozzie, too many idiots making ridiculous posts. In this case they are either just trying to stir the pot or they are in fact quite immature. In either case, the members need to be banned.

[Wagonmaster]

Agree. The two posters should be banned. Too many HBC'ers have been lost over the years by being turned off by a few who show no common sense or decency. Describing the posts as inappropriate is far too mild a rebuke.

[Liptugger]

Very sad indeed, but like meny have said, put a hi vis vest or collar on. Feel bad for the hunter as well, I once had two dogs charge me in the bush, they were running off leash with a biker following, I had my cross bow and was good the biker caught up when he did. There needs to be more info put out about running dogs off leash in hunting season. These dogs were aggressive and hyped up, what would they have done comming across a doe and fawn?

[fudge]

I have to say I don't post often on here or am I even on here very often. The main reason for this is comments like that. I personally find these people disgusting and I guarantee you they don't have the heart or guts to say that anywhere but behind a computer. Cowards they would never say this in an actual social setting

[brownmancheng]

I don't know about this island wanderer character......

[campking]

Very unfortunate for sure. I don't care if you are a hunter or non hunter, to see your dog get shot would be devastating. And I do feel for the hunter. Mistakes happen and sometimes they are costly.

I'm with Fozzie, too many idiots making ridiculous posts. In this case they are either just trying to stir the pot or they are in fact quite immature. In either case, the members need to be banned.
Agreed ban them both!!

[Ddog]

Totally agree with you scotty30-06. It's the reason I hardly venture on here anymore. Too many idiots like IslandWanderer and J_06.

x2 totally agree,,one of the reasons i hardly come visiting,,disgusting comments from these two asshats, they should be banned for comments like this, or at the very least, have a time out for their ignorance..IMHO!!

[campking]

I have to say I don't post often on here or am I even on here very often. The main reason for this is comments like that. I personally find these people disgusting and I guarantee you they don't have the heart or guts to say that anywhere but behind a computer. Cowards
You are exactly correct Cowards!
I love this site and hunting and have had my share of ignorant comments directed at me but there are certain things that cross the line!!

[RackStar]

I don't know about this island wanderer character......


I do...
its piss poor

sad for the dog owner. Very poor judgment call on the hunters behalf

[brownmancheng]

I was referring to his alias in totality not in isolation... alot of his posts are divisive or seem to be loaded.... another mole?

[RiverOtter]

Terrible turn of events for sure, but only having heard the dog owners side of the story and a non committal RCMP spokesman, I'm far from ready to lob the hunter under the bus.

20 feet, if accurate, is a pretty close distance if you are facing an "unmarked" aggressive dog. Not saying that's how it went down, but until I hear the hunters side of the story, I'm not ruling it out.

[IslandWanderer]

This! The meat should be the top concern. Fruckin trophy hunters!

I'm glad someone got something from my comment.

I have a great respect for dogs and it's a terrible situation. It's seen by us as sad because the dog had a connection with human beings- family pet. Is that how it gets its value? I think so, but anti hunters might argue that all animals have the same value. Food for thought.

[ajeatoo]

First off those comments were totally insensitive and ignorant!!

I have read the article and there is also a statement from the local CO not just the RCMP. I know this CO myself, he is a very fair guy. The 20' mentioned was given to the newspaper from the dog owner. She guessed it was about 20'. The dog was a canine therapy dog to make things worse. She was hiking with nine other dogs as well. Of course there is a small uproar: why are hunters in that area it's very popular hiking spot. People calling for his rifles to be taken away and banned from owning them etc etc. It's a bad situation all around. I feel for both sides of the story. I couldn't imagine seeing my dog get shot and killed in front of me.

[Rob Chipman]

There's lots of missing info in the story which would be nice to have. While I echo the recommendation for hi vis vest on dogs (I do it myself) I don't think we want to go too far down the road of saying it's the dog owner's responsibility to put a vest on the dog.

-It is the hunter's responsibility to know what he's shooting;
-It is the hunter's responsibility to be extra vigilant in highly populated areas. Private property and non-hunting recreationalists need to be top of mind.

If it happened as reported its a sad story. I'd be livid if it was my dog and the guy who did the shooting would be fortunate to not have a firearms/rectum accident.

[RiverOtter]

Like I said, I'd like more info before I cast "judgement".

The irony here, IMHO, is that hunters lobby for wildlife to be managed by science(fact) not EMOTION.
Yet as soon as a dog loses its life, guess what rules the day.....

Just sayin'...

And to be crystal clear, I'm NOT taking the hunters side, I'm merely stating that forming a definitive judgment without his side of the story is foolish at best.

[Elkhound]

My dog is bear hunting with me. He wears I high Visible harness just for this reason. He could easily be mistaken and shot.

[celticwolf]

This chick is the same chick who tried to steal my game cam in the same area after doing the dirty with boy friend in front of it, then had the nerve to call the cops on me when I asked for her to pay for the damages.. She works for a local dog walking company. She walks dogs off leash off trail and puts other peoples pets unnecessarily at risk. She knows that area his heavily hunted and full of large predators. I shook my head when I saw the newspaper. I feel for the owners of the dog and the hunter.

[ajeatoo]

The owner was there with another woman/"teammate" as she put it. So maybe you are referring to the other dog walker.

Anyhow the owner has posted on her fb site that she was only 10' away from her dog when it was shot they were walking up an embankment to the fsr and putting leashes back on the dogs when it happened. She said "a hunter, a trophy hunter killed my dog" and said the hunter thought her dog was a wolf even though seven other dogs were around it and she was 10' away. 10' away?? Really?

This is does not add up. As has been stated there are big gaps of info missing. Obviously the owner is very upset rightfully so, but it seems some people are wanting to start a witch hunt. The RCMP and CO are investigating but the owner is now going further and states "we can take a stand, we can change things. Please join us on our campaign Kaoru's Trail, stay tuned for a gofundme campaign link".

[KodiakHntr]

Terrible turn of events for sure, but only having heard the dog owners side of the story and a non committal RCMP spokesman, I'm far from ready to lob the hunter under the bus.

20 feet, if accurate, is a pretty close distance if you are facing an "unmarked" aggressive dog. Not saying that's how it went down, but until I hear the hunters side of the story, I'm not ruling it out.

This....^^

"Some of the dogs were off leash", "canine rehabilitation center", "some of the dogs are already nervous to begin with", "These are dogs we get paid to work with because a lot of them have issues with people"....

Until his side comes out, why don't we hold off on throwing him under the bus?

Personally, were I to be confronted by a pack of off leash dogs that are acting nervous and potentially aggressive, the first one to start towards me is going to be in grievous danger. If you have a dog(s) that are off leash, you better be able to control them. Not condoning what happened to a therapy animal, but I could see how it could happen.

[ajeatoo]

This....^^

"Some of the dogs were off leash", "canine rehabilitation center", "some of the dogs are already nervous to begin with", "These are dogs we get paid to work with because a lot of them have issues with people"....

Until his side comes out, why don't we hold off on throwing him under the bus?

Personally, were I to be confronted by a pack of off leash dogs that are acting nervous and potentially aggressive, the first one to start towards me is going to be in grievous danger. If you have a dog(s) that are off leash, you better be able to control them. Not condoning what happened to a therapy animal, but I could see how it could happen.


Yep!! Exactly! As I said above there is allot of missing info. Only one side is being vocal.

The owner has put up a YouTube vid https://youtu.be/kldWCSiAmbU

[rimfire]

It has already begun...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kldWCSiAmbU

[celticwolf]

The other dog walker was the one I had a run in with not the owner. When I reached out to her thru a mutual friend about the attempted theft of my camera and wanting it to be replaced to due to damage, she decided to call the RCMP and tell them I had my camera pointed in her bedroom and had intimate photos of her and her boyfriend. The reason things are not adding up is this women is known in town for drama and bad life choices. I actually had to send in the photos of her and her boyfriend doing the dirty in the forest to avoid being charged or investigated. I have them on cam walking dogs off leash off any trail thru the bush a decent distance from their dogs. Again putting peoples pets at risk. Im not here to slander any one or anything like that just sharing my story with the same people in the same area. I deff think this hunter is going to be in for a rough ride as these people did a good job of making my life difficult for their actions.

[rimfire]

Yep!! Exactly! As I said above there is allot of missing info. Only one side is being vocal.

The owner has put up a YouTube vid https://youtu.be/kldWCSiAmbU

"Killed by a trophy hunter at point blank range"

Firstly, ten feet is not point blank range. Secondly, your dog looks like wolf. Third, you admitted it being off leash.

Like others have said, until we hear the hunter's side, there is no way to pass judgment on the hunter.

[ajeatoo]

"Killed by a trophy hunter at point blank range"

Firstly, ten feet is not point blank range. Secondly, your dog looks like wolf. Third, you admitted it being off leash.

Like others have said, until we hear the hunter's side, there is no way to pass judgment on the hunter.

i know right? Her own stories don't add up, on her fb post she says 10' but she told the newspaper 20'... https://www.facebook.com/CanineValley/posts/1483178341751425

[rimfire]

i know right? Her own stories don't add up, on her fb post she says 10' but she told the newspaper 20'... https://www.facebook.com/CanineValley/posts/1483178341751425

Also, this seems a bit... off.

"Now we have to deal with the post traumatic stress of the dogs and the people"

Can any biologist chime in and let us know if there is such a thing as PTSD for dogs?

[Wild one]

Things are not adding up

If the hunter shot this dog thinking it's a wolf he needs to put more effort into identifying his target. Not giving the guy any defence here this would be a screw up as it it his responsibility to know his target.

The dog walker needs to have better control of her dogs. As for the adding high vis to the dogs good practice but not a law

Only excuse I would give the hunter is if it was self defence is if the dog was aggressive if not he screwed up

Sounds like a hunter screwed up and the owner is an anti who is going to use this to go for blood

Too much info lacking to know what truly happened

[rimfire]

Things are not adding up

If the hunter shot this dog thinking it's a wolf he needs to put more effort into identifying his target. Not giving the guy any defence here this would be a screw up as it it his responsibility to know his target.

The dog walker needs to have better control of her dogs. As for the adding high vis to the dogs good practice but not a law

Only excuse I would give the hunter is if it was self defence is if the dog was aggressive if not he screwed up

Sounds like a hunter screwed up and the owner is an anti who is going to use this to go for blood

Too much info lacking to know what truly happened

I agree. More info is needed.

My take from the limited info (completely theorized but seems logical): the dog came running up to the guy hunting and spooked him. She states in her Facebook post that the dog had run up the bank. By the time the owners got there, he was already chambered, aimed and fired, guessing that the animal was a wolf not a pet due to being in a wilderness area and not being on leash.


Edit: Further evidence:


Today, like any other day, I took my beautiful girl with a teammate and nine other dogs on a regular hike. The hike was amazing; the dogs were so well behaved, training went beautifully. As we were finishing the hike, we were putting the leashes back on the dogs. We were going up a little bank onto an old forest road. I already had two dogs on the leash when I heard the bang, it was so loud, my instinct made me crouch down, then I looked, and I saw 10 feet in front of me my dog shot.

They were walking a bunch of dogs, her dog was not on a leash. Ran up the bank and into the view of the hunter who likely mistook it for a wolf. (It does look a lot like one).

[wideopenthrottle]

reminds me of that lady who had all the dogs she was watching stolen from her truck...oh wait, she lied and the dogs actually died from being left in the truck too long during a heat wave....

[ajeatoo]

I agree. More info is needed.

My take from the limited info (completely theorized but seems logical): the dog came running up to the guy hunting and spooked him. She states in her Facebook post that the dog had run up the bank. By the time the owners got there, he was already chambered, aimed and fired, guessing that the animal was a wolf not a pet due to being in a wilderness area and not being on leash.


Edit: Further evidence:



They were walking a bunch of dogs, her dog was not on a leash. Ran up the bank and into the view of the hunter who likely mistook it for a wolf. (It does look a lot like one).[/FONT][/COLOR]

Sounds like the most reasonble story of what happened.

Reminds me of when my husband was up hunting in the boonies hiked into the middle of nowhere when he suddenly heard all this crashing behind him. He stilled then saw a flash of a large black animal, he had his rifle beside him at the ready next thing he knows a big black Newfoundland bounds out from the bush big and goofy looking for pets and scratches! His heart about stopped LOL. The owner showed up shortly after that. He was looking for a place to build a remote cabin. He was shocked to see my husband as much as my husband was to see him.

[russm]

Too many people think that because they're not in the city their dog can run free, Ive been out fishing and had people's dogs jump in my truck, go through my gear after my lunch and jump on me while I'm fishing. If you don't control your dog theres a chance something could happen to it whether it's traffic, it runs away, gets shot whatever, I'd say having a wolf looking dog get shot in an area that's known for hunting is strictly on the owner, sounds like she can't get her story straight, for all anyone knows the dog was nowhere near the owner.

[KodiakHntr]

Too many people think that because they're not in the city their dog can run free, Ive been out fishing and had people's dogs jump in my truck, go through my gear after my lunch and jump on me while I'm fishing. If you don't control your dog theres a chance something could happen to it whether it's traffic, it runs away, gets shot whatever, I'd say having a wolf looking dog get shot in an area that's known for hunting is strictly on the owner, sounds like she can't get her story straight, for all anyone knows the dog was nowhere near the owner.

Yep. This wouldn't surprise me either. There is a lot of truth to the old saying "If you own one dog, you have a dog. If you own two dogs, you have half a dog. If you own three dogs, you have no dogs". Dogs in packs tend to not listen very well.......

[DarekG]

I feel sorry for the dog but contempt for the owner. The dog looks almost exactly like a young wolf, on crown land, it should have been wearing something to make it stand out. I've passed on a few coyotes I wasn't sure about before because I'd rather be safe than sorry in that regard but the dogs owner was a shitty owner plain and simple.

The owner ****ed up and is quick to place blame on anyone but herself and plays the victim. Now this cry-bully has the audacity to target all hunters are "trophy hunters" - Can't wait to read some of the comments on the YouTube video, there is already one hoping for the hunter to get "karma at point blank" hilarious...

People are the worst.

[squamishhunter]

As someone who's been charged by wolves I can sympathize with the hunter, as I'm pretty light-fingered now...

[walks with deer]

Sadly it will only cause more area closers espeacially in the sea to ski corridor.

I dont even stop at gas stations if there is game in my truck up there after being pulled over 3 times for the same animal being seen in the box of my truck at a gas station.

[rimfire]

Sadly it will only cause more area closers espeacially in the sea to ski corridor.

I dont even stop at gas stations if there is game in my truck up there after being pulled over 3 times for the same animal being seen in the box of my truck at a gas station.

You should have asked to press charges against the people who called for "interfering in your hunt".

[walks with deer]

I was only 20 and happy to get away from enforcement innocent or not

[Pemby_mess]

The optics of this are really bad for the image of hunting. Those of you trying to build a case for blaming the dog owner are making it even worse, I'm sorry to say.

the only responsible reaction to this from a hunter's perspective is:

Mistakes happen. What can we all learn as a community to avoid it happening again?

It would be one thing if this was an isolated incident, but it's not by any stretch. There are multiple instances of people's pets being shot in multiuser undeveloped areas close to town, in the Sea to Sky region alone.

The responsibility for what gets shot lies with the guy behind the gun - always. If you need to pass on the shot until you're 100% sure, then that's what needs to happen. If you can't do that, then you own the consequences. If this guy sees a courtroom for this, the judge is going to find fault on a balance of probabilities. With that in mind, considering a forested area in close proximity to a now fairly major CDN city, what was more probable - that the target in the sights was a dog or a wolf? Hindsight is 20/20, of course but foresight is what's required to be seen as practicing good judgement. Obviously poor judgement was exercised in this case.

[ajeatoo]

It would be one thing if this was an isolated incident, but it's not by any stretch. There are multiple instances of people's pets being shot in multiuser undeveloped areas close to town, in the Sea to Sky region alone.

Which instances? I believe the last one was 3 years ago, a black dog up the Ashlu if I remember correctly... I think the one previous to that was another black dog up the Valley, that was 5 years ago. I don't remember reading anything else. Not that those aren't enough - I'm just curious though.

[RiverOtter]

^^^^Your obviously assuming the hunter targeted the dog as a wolf.

What if the dog was the aggressor and the hunter simply reacted and deemed it a wolf based on that?

[Pemby_mess]

Which instances? I believe the last one was 3 years ago, a black dog up the Ashlu if I remember correctly... I think the one previous to that was another black dog up the Valley, that was 5 years ago. I don't remember reading anything else. Not that those aren't enough - I'm just curious though.

There was one several years ago just out of pemberton where a Samoyed was shot in a multiuser area popular with hunters, Mtn bikers, and dog walkers. The undeveloped area abuts residential development. Rumors circulated that the dog was chasing a deer - owner denied that. Either way, the general public was pissed. Rightfully, imho.

[Pemby_mess]

^^^^Your obviously assuming the hunter targeted the dog as a wolf.

What if the dog was the aggressor and the hunter simply reacted and deemed it a wolf based on that?

What if? Again, you've got that balance of probabilities question to deal with. The only thing the public cares about, is there was a guy with a lethal weapon targeting something in a popular multiuser recreational area, and someone's dog got shot. A "therapy dog" at that - really bad optics

[ajeatoo]

There was one several years ago just out of pemberton where a Samoyed was shot in a multiuser area popular with hunters, Mtn bikers, and dog walkers. The undeveloped area abuts residential development. Rumors circulated that the dog was chasing a deer - owner denied that. Either way, the general public was pissed. Rightfully, imho.

That one I had not heard about. Yikes a Samoyed?

Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Probably get people all riled up on a witch hunt and then it will be forgotten about. Seems the way of it. Most of these same people are the ones arguing who has more rights to the trails in our woods: cyclists, walkers or dog walkers cause you know each one is the most important after all. :lol:

[RiverOtter]

So now you're saying that you can't defend yourself from an aggressive animal, on the off chance that the animal attacking you might be domestic?

I wasn't there and we've yet to hear the hunters story, but already the dog walkers story has changed.

Letting dogs run free in a high use area is equally irresponsible, especially if you don't even own the dog you cut loose.

[Pemby_mess]

That one I had not heard about. Yikes a Samoyed?

Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Probably get people all riled up on a witch hunt and then it will be forgotten about. Seems the way of it. Most of these same people are the ones arguing who has more rights to the trails in our woods: cyclists, walkers or dog walkers cause you know each one is the most important after all. :lol:

Well, I feel all the areas in question should be "rightfully" open to hunters, of course. However, I think it's definitely clear who it is bearing the most responsibility in these cases. Dog owners should definitely be responsible for keeping their pet under control at all times, and ideally make sure they are easily identifiable in all wilderness rec zones. However it's also unreasonable to expect urban pet owners to keep track of hunting seasons and the probability that they're going to run into hunters that may possibly target their dog. At the end of the day, it's the guy who decides to pull the trigger that is responsible for the consequences of that decision - period.

[ajeatoo]

Well, I feel all the areas in question should be "rightfully" open to hunters, of course. However, I think it's definitely clear who it is bearing the most responsibility in these cases. Dog owners should definitely be responsible for keeping their pet under control at all times, and ideally make sure they are easily identifiable in all wilderness rec zones. However it's also unreasonable to expect urban pet owners to keep track of hunting seasons and the probability that they're going to run into hunters that may possibly target their dog. At the end of the day, it's the guy who decides to pull the trigger that is responsible for the consequences of that decision - period.

I agree! I wasn't directing my comment to hunters and their right to use land. I was saying the people who get all riled up on fb posts seem to be the same ones that tend to get riled up about any land use. They all want it for themselves and they seems to have this Me First it's Mine attitude. Everyone gets their panties in a knot and then it just fizzles out. I wasn't making any point towards hunters responsibilities just a general comment on witch hunts.

[scott h]

If the story is proven to be accurate then there is somebody that should never be able to hunt or own a firearm again.......

[Pemby_mess]

So now you're saying that you can't defend yourself from an aggressive animal, on the off chance that the animal attacking you might be domestic?

I wasn't there and we've yet to hear the hunters story, but already the dog walkers story has changed.

Letting dogs run free in a high use area is equally irresponsible, especially if you don't even own the dog you cut loose.

I never said anything about defending one's self from an aggressive dog and you know it. You've suggested that might be the case because taking the opposite position is indefensible. But is what you say occurred, accurate?

You're right, we haven't heard the shooter's take on the event, but we likely never will. That means there will only be one version held up for public judgement. Unfortunately, It won't be the version you'd like to present, because your version, while plausible; is entirely hypothetical without evidence.

I understand you hoping to use a "what if" as a plausible defense for the guy who pulled the trigger, in lieu of his public explanation. However, the scenario you propose is problematically less probable than the version of events given by the dog walker: that she was in voice range, and therefore in control of the dog on a trail/road when it was shot. It's therefore a reasonable conclusion that the pet dog was misidentified as a wolf/coyote. That conclusion comes back to haunt anybody in the woods with a gun, i.e.; hunters.

Best case scenario is we take responsibility as a group and explain how we will attempt to ensure these things don't continue to happen. Part of that may include, educating the public and transferring some degree of responsibility unto them. However, our communal selves shirking that same obligation on our side and attempting to shift blame unto the victim in the scenario is sure to backfire onto the hunting community as a whole.

[scott h]

^^^^Your obviously assuming the hunter targeted the dog as a wolf.

What if the dog was the aggressor and the hunter simply reacted and deemed it a wolf based on that?
Therapy dogs are noted for being exceedingly non aggressive. Evidence points to a stupid hunter.....

[BCHunterTV]

killed by a trophy hunter sounds so much more serious


Yep!! Exactly! As I said above there is allot of missing info. Only one side is being vocal.

The owner has put up a YouTube vid https://youtu.be/kldWCSiAmbU

[BCHunterTV]

theres blame on both ends, yes the hunter made a quick judgement and was wrong..it was someones pet. BUT maybe in the setting it appeared to be a wolf? BUT then again the owner should have had the dog leashed and or a high res vest on her LOVED dog

[ajeatoo]

I'm curious what her gofundme page is going to be used for

[Pemby_mess]

Therapy dogs are noted for being exceedingly non aggressive. Evidence points to a stupid hunter.....

I also believe it's important to foster a community where mistakes are recognized in order to be rectified. Calling someone stupid for making a mistake that most could admittedly make isn't going to solve any problems. If more situations like this one happen, and hunters aren't seen as contributing to the betterment of communities but indeed dangers within them - privileges will be lost.

lets put ourselves in the shoes of the shooter for a moment. It was conceivably as traumatic for him as it was the owners of the dog.

Ideally, in the interests of the hunting community, the hunter would speak out, and his perspective addressed. It would serve as a teachable moment for everyone including dog owners. In his own self interest, he won't say anything, but that doesn't mean we should make it harder for people to talk about their mistakes.

[RiverOtter]

Pemby,

The chick's account went from 20 feet to 10 feet in a matter of 2 statements. Heck, come tomorrow the she'll likely be claiming the dog was shot out of her embrace. The story is just not adding up at all. Throw in the fancy "Trophy Hunter" catch words and I'm really starting to see an agenda developing.

Maybe, I have it all wrong and the hunter didn't see the 8 other dogs and the lady standing a mere 10 feet away from his target. If that's the case, then it's a wonder he could hunt at all, because he's obviously legally blind.....Or maybe, just maybe, the chick(s) in question are not telling the truth....

[IslandWanderer]

Pemby,

The chick's account went from 20 feet to 10 feet in a matter of 2 statements. Heck, come tomorrow the she'll likely be claiming the dog was shot out of her embrace. The story is just not adding up at all. Throw in the fancy "Trophy Hunter" catch words and I'm really starting to see an agenda developing.

Maybe, I have it all wrong and the hunter didn't see the 8 other dogs and the lady standing a mere 10 feet away from his target. If that's the case, then it's a wonder he could hunt at all, because he's obviously legally blind.....Or maybe, just maybe, the chick(s) in question are not telling the truth....

Well expressed. Also, isn't the burden of proof on the accuser? Innocent before proven guilty? I realize this situation isn't perfectly parallel with a criminal accusation, but it's very close.

[RiverOtter]

In his own self interest, I don't blame him if he doesn't come forward, especially if he has a wife and/or kids. Too many FB'ers out there that value an animals life over a humans(No matter the reason) and he'd no doubt get death threats, or worse.

I've no doubt he feels horrible, whether the shooting was justified or a complete brain fart.

And the "therapy dog" angle means little to me, as the dog was running at large in a wilderness setting. The dog could very well perceive a hunter sneaking along quietly as a direct threat to the lady standing a mere "10 feet" behind him. With 8 other dogs and another lady; can't forget that....

[Bugle M In]

theres blame on both ends, yes the hunter made a quick judgement and was wrong..it was someones pet. BUT maybe in the setting it appeared to be a wolf? BUT then again the owner should have had the dog leashed and or a high res vest on her LOVED dog

interesting...feel the same,
I was out 1 time, in the middle of nowhere, way off the roads outside of Cache creek.
Out of no where, here comes this dog running "full tilt" straight at me.
Caught me by total surprise....you expect to see game, like deer, taking off....but to have something run at you,
and it looked like a wolf (it wasn't, and I owned huskies, but a mix between shepherd and husky)....
Well let me tell you....the gun came up....at first just because it was a reflex to something running at me....
Then, inside 15 to 0 yards, I realized it wasn't a wolf, but none the less, coming at me at full tilt!
Well, it stopped with about 10 yards to go....thankfully...but I will be honest...I was ready to shoot!
But, right then the dog realized (and I am assuming) that I am not his owner...and just stared at me.
Then, way off in the distance and way above me, I could hear 2 guys walking thru the woods....somewhere out there...
crashing and busting branches.
The dog took off up towards them.
I doubt the owner ever realized in how much "jeopardy", his dog was in just moments before.
Fact is, dogs are to be on a leash...especially when hunting deer etc (from what I remember in the regs).
My husky was on a leash, and around camp, if I let him loose, he had a orange bib on, or tap....but something to
identify him as "domestic".
I blame the owner/hunter for that situation....and you know what...if I had shot the dog, to save myself potential injury,
I would have felt bad, and pissed off that someone else was so careless as to "put me in that situation"!
Would have ended up looking like the bad guy in that owners eyes....but he wasn't there to see "how the situation looked"
right then and there, with only a couple of seconds to decide.
Makes the papers, but I doubt the "full story and both sides" will be published.
If it was someone that wasn't at risk, and was just pissed off...then they should lose their license.
But, I think some of these folks who now live up out of the city, but once did, need to be aware of hunting season
and take the appropriate steps as well.
Some just get used to having their dogs off leash all summer long, and don't get it, that hunting opens in September.
Sad part is, hunting gets slammed again....and the other party has "no involvement" in it at all in the end....
just their dog is gone...total heartbreak.
I understand the owners loss, don't get me wrong, and if the action was totally inappropriate on the hunters side, he/she
should be held accountable....but, is that the "real case" here???

[rimfire]

Pemby,

The chick's account went from 20 feet to 10 feet in a matter of 2 statements. Heck, come tomorrow the she'll likely be claiming the dog was shot out of her embrace. The story is just not adding up at all. Throw in the fancy "Trophy Hunter" catch words and I'm really starting to see an agenda developing.

Maybe, I have it all wrong and the hunter didn't see the 8 other dogs and the lady standing a mere 10 feet away from his target. If that's the case, then it's a wonder he could hunt at all, because he's obviously legally blind.....Or maybe, just maybe, the chick(s) in question are not telling the truth....

Thats not true. She stated SHE was 10 feet from the dog. The news article stated the dog was SHOT from 20 feet away with no indication of the distance from them.

[rimfire]

Best case scenario is we take responsibility as a group and explain how we will attempt to ensure these things don't continue to happen. Part of that may include, educating the public and transferring some degree of responsibility unto them. However, our communal selves shirking that same obligation on our side and attempting to shift blame unto the victim in the scenario is sure to backfire onto the hunting community as a whole.

Which is what the news article does by stating that people should have bright markers on their dogs.

[rimfire]

Maybe, I have it all wrong and the hunter didn't see the 8 other dogs and the lady standing a mere 10 feet away from his target. If that's the case, then it's a wonder he could hunt at all, because he's obviously legally blind.....Or maybe, just maybe, the chick(s) in question are not telling the truth....

That's where I take issue RO. How could the dog be 10 feet away and be shot? If so, the hunter should be charged with unsafe discharge. Likely, this isn't the case though...

[RiverOtter]

Thats not true. She stated SHE was 10 feet from the dog. The news article stated the dog was SHOT from 20 feet away with no indication of the distance from them.
Fair enough, I stand corrected on HER distance.
But that raises another question, how long is the average dog leash? 5 feet plus?
She claimed to still have some of the "pack" leashed and they would no doubt be out in front of her, so now that initial 10 just turned into 5 feet or less.

Is my math way off here or is no one else seeing that this puzzle is just not fitting together?

[KodiakHntr]

Now lets just look at this scenario from a different perspective....

You are out walking slowly down a road, with your rifle over your shoulder, looking for legal game.

In front of you, a canine runs out on the road, and you can hear multiple other animals also in the brush running and breaking sticks. You immediately react before you completely process what you are seeing, and your rifle is coming off your shoulder into your hands. Your heart rate increases, and your focus is on the canine on the road immediately in front of you, when multiple other canines run out.

Some of those canines appear to be nervous/aggressive at being surprised by something they didn't expect to be there. You identify them as a pack of dogs, running loose, when the first animal closest to you takes some steps towards you. Whether it is acting aggressive or not, what do you do?

[rimfire]

Fair enough, I stand corrected on HER distance.
But that raises another question, how long is the average dog leash? 5 feet plus?
She claimed to still have some of the "pack" leashed and they would no doubt be out in front of her, so now that initial 10 just turned into 5 feet or less.

Is my math way off here or is no one else seeing that this puzzle is just not fitting together?

Oh, I agree RO. Her math is off completely.

That and labeling the guy as "trophy hunter" in her post and video just goes into her agenda. Anyone with a smidgen of intellectual honesty can see that she is using this tragedy to further her cause.

[rimfire]

Now lets just look at this scenario from a different perspective....

You are out walking slowly down a road, with your rifle over your shoulder, looking for legal game.

In front of you, a canine runs out on the road, and you can hear multiple other animals also in the brush running and breaking sticks. You immediately react before you completely process what you are seeing, and your rifle is coming off your shoulder into your hands. Your heart rate increases, and your focus is on the canine on the road immediately in front of you, when multiple other canines run out.

Some of those canines appear to be nervous/aggressive at being surprised by something they didn't expect to be there. You identify them as a pack of dogs, running loose, when the first animal closest to you takes some steps towards you. Whether it is acting aggressive or not, what do you do?

Likely... Pull the trigger. That is if the other dogs were even out of the bush yet.

[scott h]

In his own self interest, I don't blame him if he doesn't come forward, especially if he has a wife and/or kids. Too many FB'ers out there that value an animals life over a humans(No matter the reason) and he'd no doubt get death threats, or worse.

I've no doubt he feels horrible, whether the shooting was justified or a complete brain fart.

And the "therapy dog" angle means little to me, as the dog was running at large in a wilderness setting. The dog could very well perceive a hunter sneaking along quietly as a direct threat to the lady standing a mere "10 feet" behind him. With 8 other dogs and another lady; can't forget that....

You may want to take a look on a map and see where the guy was hunting. About a 1/2 km off highway 99 between Squamish and Whistler where your biggest worry is not wolves but dodging mountain bikes and Chinese tourists. If he gets a twitchy a trigger finger while hunting there it's probably lucky that it wasn't a kid that he shot.

[ajeatoo]

You may want to take a look on a map and see where the guy was hunting. About a 1/2 km off highway 99 between Squamish and Whistler where your biggest worry is not wolves but dodging mountain bikes and Chinese tourists. If he gets a twitchy a trigger finger while hunting there it's probably lucky that it wasn't a kid that he shot.

The newspaper article said it was shot "near Lucile Lake" and the owner said in her post she was in the bush walking up an embankment onto an old FSR. The entire area above Lucile Lake is full of FSR and cut blocks, this didn't happen at the lake but could have been anywhere above/around it which is a popular area for hunters.

[ajeatoo]

And now the gofundme campaign is up.

https://www.gofundme.com/kaoru

Trying to raise funding for multiple things including protection of wolves but their first goal is this:

"Goal 1: Protection of Life
Extend the current No Hunting & No Shoot Zone from Squamish to Whistler.
(currently from North Vancouver to the entrance of Squamish) This would extend a 400m protection of life zone on either side of the highway.
- Make No Hunting signs and place them along the entire zone.
- Create interpretive signs educating people on the wonderful nature and animal life that surrounds us and incorporate Squamish Nation teachings- They were the first protectors."

[walks with deer]

Hmm how about she is a anti through and through..with winning the gbear battle they needed some extra leverage on the wolf front..

So they staged a shooting on the old beast that was blind deaf and dump for more power against the antis..
This was all master planned by raincoast to generate extra attention.

[ajeatoo]

Well it's all over gobal news and ctv now as well. CTV said her main goal is to ban hunting throughout the area. Of course now death threats to all hunters have now begun. Apparently we should all be shot and stuffed via taxidermy. Lol. Ideally we will shoot ourselves too. Right. Get right on that.

[Pemby_mess]

You may want to take a look on a map and see where the guy was hunting. About a 1/2 km off highway 99 between Squamish and Whistler where your biggest worry is not wolves but dodging mountain bikes and Chinese tourists. If he gets a twitchy a trigger finger while hunting there it's probably lucky that it wasn't a kid that he shot.


The newspaper article said it was shot "near Lucile Lake" and the owner said in her post she was in the bush walking up an embankment onto an old FSR. The entire area above Lucile Lake is full of FSR and cut blocks, this didn't happen at the lake but could have been anywhere above/around it which is a popular area for hunters.

scott h isn't making the point that hunters don't use the area in question nor that they shouldn't. He is making the point that hunters choosing to use the particular area should be extra vigilant for precisely these circumstances. If you're hunting an area across from one of the most popular wilderness parks in the region, with the so-called title of "Canada's outdoor recreation capital" - your index finger should remain outside of the trigger guard until you're absolutely sure of your target. Self defense appears to be somewhat lame in this case.

[Laurp99]

Therapy dogs are noted for being exceedingly non aggressive. Evidence points to a stupid hunter.....

Agreed! Therapy dogs are just that, around humans all the time and mostly children, the elderly and the sick!
My money is on the inexperienced stupid hunter, mistakes happen but this hunter needs his eyes checked.

[scoutlt1]

1. Definitely sorry that this dog was shot.
2. I don't know anything about this event except for what I've read on here and heard on the news.
3. My 100lb lab cross (black), always wears hi-viz when we're out there....
4. I was tought, practice, and have passed on to my kids that one of the most important things in hunting/shooting is to properly identify your target.

When I first heard the owner talk about how tragic it was, and when she referred to the shooter as a "trophy hunter", I figured it was the (very understandable) emotional reaction of a true dog lover/owner (who doesn't hunt), and just witnessed her favorite dog shot and killed.

When I started to hear the details of the distance, some details, and more directly the youtube video and gofundme page (both well put together on very short notice).....I'm forced to think, sadly, that (as the saying goes) "there is something rotten in the state of Denmark"....

[IslandWanderer]

They're seeking a no hunting zone 400 metres either side of the highway between whistler and Squamish. Seems reasonable. What's 400 metres?

[caddisguy]

Story doesn't add up at all. Let me get this straight...

Dog is shot at point blank range by a "trophy hunter" she did not see and likewise the trophy hunter did not see her or several other dogs at "point blank range" (or 20ft depending on which news article.

Ok sounds iffy, but maybe that's exactly the way it went down. Coincidentally, she turns out to be a vocal anti hunter, extremely quick to launch a YouTube / gofundme campaign to ban hunting in Squamish, protect wildlife and "save the wolves".

Well holy crap. We seem to have a number of huge coincidences simultaneously occurring.

Again, it could have gone down exactly how she said, but I think at this point police need to consider all possible angles.

Are there anti hunters and wolf advocates crazy enough to put down a dog to further their agenda? Did the dog have any health issues? Can the bullet be recovered for any possible forensics? Any aquaintences in the area who own or have access to firearms?

[Fella]

Crappy situation all around. My dog wears a hi vis vest in the woods, she's black and vaguely looks wolfy so I don't take any chances.

[rimfire]

She is now posting the video on any comment she can on her facebook wall. This is agenda driven.

[caddisguy]

I think they should check into the backgrounds of both her and the hunter to see if there is any connection. It's all very suspicious. That said, it could have transpired exactly the way she said.

[Gateholio]

And now the gofundme campaign is up.

https://www.gofundme.com/kaoru

Trying to raise funding for multiple things including protection of wolves but their first goal is this:

"Goal 1: Protection of Life
Extend the current No Hunting & No Shoot Zone from Squamish to Whistler.
(currently from North Vancouver to the entrance of Squamish) This would extend a 400m protection of life zone on either side of the highway.
- Make No Hunting signs and place them along the entire zone.
- Create interpretive signs educating people on the wonderful nature and animal life that surrounds us and incorporate Squamish Nation teachings- They were the first protectors."



Sigh....And so begins another round of trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist by implementing a ban.....

[REMINGTON JIM]

Thats not true. She stated SHE was 10 feet from the dog. The news article stated the dog was SHOT from 20 feet away with no indication of the distance from them.

OK i HATE that the dog got shot - I like my dog more then most People ! :shock: BUT i don't BELIEVE for a SECOND that the hunter shot the dog at 20 ft and her only 10 ft from the Dog unless it was being agressive or attacking him ! Dont know what happened there but i JUST don't BELIEVE her distances ! jmo RJ

[walks with deer]

We should investigate the local vet..i smell a set up.

[scott h]

Hmm how about she is a anti through and through..with winning the gbear battle they needed some extra leverage on the wolf front..

So they staged a shooting on the old beast that was blind deaf and dump for more power against the antis..
This was all master planned by raincoast to generate extra attention.

Wow. Time to change the tinfoil.

[wideopenthrottle]

Agreed! Therapy dogs are just that, around humans all the time and mostly children, the elderly and the sick!
My money is on the inexperienced stupid hunter, mistakes happen but this hunter needs his eyes checked.
if I read it correctly, it was a therapy dog for other dogs (traumatized dogs)or did I misread it?

[northof49]

I don't know about this island wanderer character......

Is another troll just like Jasmine.....obvious from all posts to date including Griz thread and original posts probing for info on areas for wolves. Classic baiting. Best to ignore and not feed into it. Should be banned.

[albravo2]

Very sad. I feel for all involved. It would be nightmare to shoot a wolf that turned out to be a pet. A few hunters on here have wolf cross dogs and have nothing but good things to say about the breed. I always hesitate before pulling the trigger on a lone wolf for that reason. I think the hunter made a mistake and hope I never make the same error.

I don't blame the owner but I don't believe her either. CBC reported that the area is closed to wolf hunting which is also incorrect.

There is already a bylaw banning shooting from Squamish to Whistler on the east side of the highway.

[rimfire]

OK i HATE that the dog got shot - I like my dog more then most People ! :shock: BUT i don't BELIEVE for a SECOND that the hunter shot the dog at 20 ft and her only 10 ft from the Dog unless it was being agressive or attacking him ! Dont know what happened there but i JUST don't BELIEVE her distances ! jmo RJ

RJ, her go fund me now says the dog was 20 feet FROM HER. Her youtube video says that it was shot "point blank". Something doesn't seem right.

[Mosin]

Hmmm story doesn't make sense to me..20 feet?
Steven

You are right...something's not adding up here. I would like to hear the shooters side. Makes me wonder if there were any harsh words spoken or warnings, wonder if the dog got aggressive or is the shooter just a dummy? We will probably never know for sure. If u shoot a "wolf" from 20 feet away how did you not notice the human near it? How did you mistake a dog for a wolf at 20 feet? Something's weird here

[charlie_horse]

J dont think she is a through and through anti. I've used her before for my dog having aggression issues with other dogs. She came to my house and seemed genuinely happy I took my dog out hunting and actually giving him the freedom that he gets in the bush. I don't hide my love for hunting and made it clear that I use him for that purpose. We even traded stories of our dogs being stalked and almost attacked by wolves while they were ON LEASH.

That being said this story seems like complete bull shit and something definitely doesn't add up. Did the hunter stick around? Did he flee?

[finaddict]

FYI - Go Fundme campaign goals. Mostly attempting to close all hunting in the area.

Here are my questions;
1. Was the dog shot in region 2-6 or 2-7? 2-6 has a wolf season currently, 2-7 does not.
2. "Valley spent over 10,000 hours training the dog" That works out to 8 hours per day, every day for 3 1/2 years. I call bs.
3. "The Squamish "nation" (read "tribe") were the first protectors" Just curious what this has to do with the incident?

Campaign Initial Goals
Goal 1: Protection of Life
Extend the current No Hunting & No Shoot Zone from Squamish to Whistler.
(currently from North Vancouver to the entrance of Squamish) This would extend a 400m protection of life zone on either side of the highway.
- Make No Hunting signs and place them along the entire zone.
- Create interpretive signs educating people on the wonderful nature and animal life that surrounds us and incorporate Squamish Nation teachings- They were the first protectors.
Please sign the petition below
Link (https://www.change.org/p/sea-to-sky-residents-create-a-no-shooting-no-hunting-zone-along-highway-99-between-squamish-whistler?recruiter=785153332&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_content=nafta_copylink_shortlink_1%3Acontrol)

Goal 2: Training a New Generation of Service Dog
Kaoru was used extensively at our centre to help countless children, people and everyday dogs. Valley spent over 10,000 hours training her to become the awesome pack leader she was. She was a foundation of the services we offer. We will honour her memory and train a new service leader and continue to serve our community, it's our responsibility.

Goal 3: Canine Valley 2.0
It's bittersweet, we were days away from announcing our new centre, exciting news that will allow us to help more people and pooches. Kaoru was instrumental in helping create that vision, to make our new centre a reality. With this tragedy now engrained in us, we will ramp up our efforts in our continual betterment of our community. We will establish Kaoru's Trail, an interpretive trail that will be taken around our new centre explaining what happens when people make a stand for what's right and the impact a voice has.

Goal 4: The protection of Wolves
The hunting and killing of wolves in British Columbia require no special permits or tags, just a valid hunting license to kill. We do not know why the hunter shot Kaoru, an assumption was that he thought it was a wolf, even though wolf hunting is not permitted where she was killed, this brought to our attention the plight of the wolf and we will stand by them.

[DarekG]

The hunting and killing of wolves in British Columbia require no special permits or tags, just a valid hunting license to kill.

The more I read into this, the dumber this lady sounds. What a muppet.

[caddisguy]

The more I read into this, the dumber this lady sounds. What a muppet.

There are definitely some things that seem "a little off" to me.

A little Facebook creeping says she "studied at" the "Global Information Network"

http://www.valeriacalderoni.com/about-me.html

"Valeria is a Level VI member of the Global Information Network, a Professional Public Speaker, a published author, a student of Budo and a Life Coach to those who are ready to embrace the path of Self-Mastery."

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154176433266177&set=pb.783076176.-2207520000.1505927709.&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154231118471177&set=pb.783076176.-2207520000.1505927674.&type=3&theater

According to scamxposer, it is a cult-like scam operation.

"Global Information Network, by the notorious convicted felon and often indicted Kevin Trudeau and found at globalinformationnetwork.com, is an MLM scam of mythical proportions bordering on a cult. This company is a crime that authorities are trying to end" - http://scamxposer.com/scam-review/global-information-network/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrlXbVw3YlA

[walks with deer]

Nice work caddis guy this backs my theory.

the whole deal is a hippy as con..

The hunting community is not that big if it was a regular guy someone on here would no him.

[huntcoop]

Has anyone seen or heard actual proof that this was in fact a therapy dog?

[longstonec]

You mean like actually certified?

[steveo]

I agree this smells really fishy. I find it hard to believe anyone with even little bush experience would try to shoot what they thought was a wolf in the presence of nine other dogs and two humans that were supposedly within 20 feet of the incident. The C.O that interviewed the hunter wouldn't say if the hunter thought the dog was a wolf and made a mistake, why the big secret. I could see someone mistaking a Tamaskan dog for a wolf, it is a crossbreed specifically designed by dog fanciers to morphologically resemble a wolfdog.

[huntcoop]

You mean like actually certified?

Was just curious if that part of the story may be fabricated.

[Bugle M In]

Sad part is folks, the media will never produce/investigate all the facts and provide that to the public.
If the hunter was inside 400m of the highway, he is already in the wrong.
Facts that are missing are:
1)Wolves are on the increase, and for management reasons, hunters have been given more opportunity to put them down.
2)Hunting season is in full swing, and many of the general public forget that...they can no longer let their dogs loose to roam around during walks (not that I think they are even allowed to let dog off leash, but I could be wrong)
3)Public needs to be aware that Preds like Wolf are open all year....lots of places anyways.
4)The dog had a collar, but is it easily visible?, is it black?....husky/malamutes have pretty thick hair, and at times even my dogs collar was not easily seen to be present...just saying.
5)The owner failed to keep dog on leash, but more importantly, didn't give it much thought, and did not have any sort of
high color bib or even ribbons on the dog.
6)The dog "does look wolf like", more so then just about any breed, and their are lots of "white coloured wolves"....lots!
7)That she made a statement that the "dog does not look like a deer" is true, but, the hunter probably did assume it was a wolf and not a deer to begin with (just makes it look like we are all trigger happy fools).
8)That the dog was so close, and was probably just in front of the hunter (if that is a true fact), the hunter probably had a moment of "oh shit! concern" possibly for his own safety....maybe...(I have had bears and cougars at 10ft, in just a blink of an eye, but held off on the trigger,but that was me, and at any moment could have been the same reaction as the hunter in this case)

I think the only charge the hunter could face is "hunting and discharging a firearm inside the 400m rule of a highway"
Maybe another charge of unsafe discharge etc???
But, the media will never look into all those facts above, and they sure as hell won't "advertise" that on any public tv channel.
Media loves the "dirty laundry" part of the story.....they do not like the "justification" part of stories....
Justification requires mental thought....Dirty Laundry invokes Emotion, and thus "Sells"....
Lets face it, media is a business, and some have agendas directed in one direction more so.
Some Media has an "Anti hunting" direction quite often, probably do to the folks doing the reporting, and already being
biased against hunting in general.

So, no matter how much we sit here and Slam the story....it does not matter....damage done!

[skibum]

Preamble: I have shot more than one wolf and my dog wears a high visibility vest in the bush

Stop putting this on the dog owner about wearing a high visibility vest or keeping it on a leash - who the hell here keeps a dog on a leash in the bush.

This is all on the hunter who pulled the trigger.

Don't care how bad he feels. Not going to defend him just because he is another hunter. Your responsibility to know your target.

Killing animals is emotional, fock-up and it is going to get bad.

[KodiakHntr]

Sad part is folks, the media will never produce/investigate all the facts and provide that to the public.
If the hunter was inside 400m of the highway, he is already in the wrong.
Facts that are missing are:
1)Wolves are on the increase, and for management reasons, hunters have been given more opportunity to put them down.
2)Hunting season is in full swing, and many of the general public forget that...they can no longer let their dogs loose to roam around during walks (not that I think they are even allowed to let dog off leash, but I could be wrong)
3)Public needs to be aware that Preds like Wolf are open all year....lots of places anyways.
4)The dog had a collar, but is it easily visible?, is it black?....husky/malamutes have pretty thick hair, and at times even my dogs collar was not easily seen to be present...just saying.
5)The owner failed to keep dog on leash, but more importantly, didn't give it much thought, and did not have any sort of
high color bib or even ribbons on the dog.
6)The dog "does look wolf like", more so then just about any breed, and their are lots of "white coloured wolves"....lots!
7)That she made a statement that the "dog does not look like a deer" is true, but, the hunter probably did assume it was a wolf and not a deer to begin with (just makes it look like we are all trigger happy fools).
8)That the dog was so close, and was probably just in front of the hunter (if that is a true fact), the hunter probably had a moment of "oh shit! concern" possibly for his own safety....maybe...(I have had bears and cougars at 10ft, in just a blink of an eye, but held off on the trigger,but that was me, and at any moment could have been the same reaction as the hunter in this case)

I think the only charge the hunter could face is "hunting and discharging a firearm inside the 400m rule of a highway"
Maybe another charge of unsafe discharge etc???
But, the media will never look into all those facts above, and they sure as hell won't "advertise" that on any public tv channel.
Media loves the "dirty laundry" part of the story.....they do not like the "justification" part of stories....
Justification requires mental thought....Dirty Laundry invokes Emotion, and thus "Sells"....
Lets face it, media is a business, and some have agendas directed in one direction more so.
Some Media has an "Anti hunting" direction quite often, probably do to the folks doing the reporting, and already being
biased against hunting in general.

So, no matter how much we sit here and Slam the story....it does not matter....damage done!


This is all with the assumption that the guy made a mistake, and thought it was a wolf. It is entirely possible that he was confronted by a large pack of dog, with some of them acting in a suspect fashion, and then one of them started towards him.



400m closure or not, if I am thinking that I am about to be attacked by a pack of dogs, there will be a lot of brass laying on the ground around me.

[Bugle M In]

Preamble: I have shot more than one wolf and my dog wears a high visibility vest in the bush

Stop putting this on the dog owner about wearing a high visibility vest or keeping it on a leash - who the hell here keeps a dog on a leash in the bush.

This is all on the hunter who pulled the trigger.

Don't care how bad he feels. Not going to defend him just because he is another hunter. Your responsibility to know your target.

Killing animals is emotional, fock-up and it is going to get bad.

Having owned Huskies, and out and about around camp, during hunting season, you can bet your ass I had bibs or high coloured ribbons on them at all times.
On leash while hunting, and off leash around camp.
Their family, and I do what it takes to keep them as safe as possible.

[Corona1986]

That really sucks about the loss of ones pet/ part of family. On the news last night they showed a picture of the dog and looked like it got shot on its side and had a collar on. The hunter needs his eyes checked badly, they said he wasn't far away when it happened. I bet hes the type of guy that shoots at anything that is barley vizable in the bush. Scary to think of people like that when your walking through the bush in camo but still very easy to tell your not an animal.

[scott h]

Preamble: I have shot more than one wolf and my dog wears a high visibility vest in the bush

Stop putting this on the dog owner about wearing a high visibility vest or keeping it on a leash - who the hell here keeps a dog on a leash in the bush.

This is all on the hunter who pulled the trigger.

Don't care how bad he feels. Not going to defend him just because he is another hunter. Your responsibility to know your target.

Killing animals is emotional, fock-up and it is going to get bad.

Thank you for the common sense.

[caddisguy]

Nice work caddis guy this backs my theory.

the whole deal is a hippy as con..

The hunting community is not that big if it was a regular guy someone on here would no him.

I can't take full credit on that. Another HBC member did most of the digging and pointed me towards the findings.

It doesn't necessary prove anything, but gives some insight into the personality.

All we know for certain is a dog was killed and that is being used to call for donations to lobby for hunting bans and protection of wolves. Anything else is speculation.

I still hope it investigated (by police, not the media) from all angles. That said, RCMP/CO's might be reluctant to look into the background of the hunter or any connection between the hunter and the dog owner, as they could get smeared for "victim blaming" or something like that by the media.

The situation could have transpired exactly as she claims or maybe there is more to it.

As Bugle said, we will probably never know. I think the card as been dealt. It comes at a bad time with political environment. The media (CBC, Global, etc) is already rallying the masses and the NDP will happily appease them since according to their own admission, laws can be put in place for social acceptance. Perfect storm.

[REMINGTON JIM]

RJ, her go fund me now says the dog was 20 feet FROM HER. Her youtube video says that it was shot "point blank". Something doesn't seem right.

YUP Smells very FISHY this storey for sure ! No one is going to shoot that dog at 20 ft or 10 ft or point blank unless it was POSSIBLY attacking them or at the Least being very Agressive ! jmo RJ

[poper]

It doesn't matter the distance, it's still the hunters decision that's at question, but really, at that distance, someone is not good at measuring right, and it's a brutal mistake,but 20ft, and she was 10ft away ??? We need Bill Good to look into this.

[scoutlt1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhd7eSchNk4


Over $11k raised on the Gofundme page.....

[caddisguy]

The change.org campaign is running full strength and being signed by people all around the world too.

This whole chain of events is so greasy. I hope they are looking into the possibility this was orchestrated.

[Mosin]

That's a very compelling video for the average Joe who doesn't hunt. It's got the angelic music the cute dog blah blah blah. It sucks that the dog got shot, I'm a dog lover. But I smell an opportunistic vulture like others have suggested as well.

[ajeatoo]

I just read online that the area this happened was on the other side of highway 99 opposite of Lucille Lake. It was behind a gated FSR. I know allot of hunters that go in that area. The media keep perpetuating this happened at the lake which has everyone in an uproar as to why people are hunting in a common recreation site when in actual fact it was no where near the lake. Of course the story isn't as good with that fact in it...

[finaddict]

I just read online that the area this happened was on the other side of highway 99 opposite of Lucille Lake. It was behind a gated FSR. I know allot of hunters that go in that area. The media keep perpetuating this happened at the lake which has everyone in an uproar as to why people are hunting in a common recreation site when in actual fact it was no where near the lake. Of course the story isn't as good with that fact in it... the story just gets "curiouser and curiouser"

[charlie_horse]

The problem being if it was on the west side Lucille lake wolf would be open and if he was on the east side wolf is closed. There are strong rumors which I think might be more than rumors noe that she was on private property and asked not to be there a couple times and the hunter did have permission to be there. But let's leave that out as well just cause.

[DarekG]

I think might be more than rumors noe that she was on private property and asked not to be there a couple times and the hunter did have permission to be there. But let's leave that out as well just cause.

Where did you hear this? Story gets more interesting every day. You would figure the hunter or CO would mention this to the media.

[charlie_horse]

Nothing has come out that I've seen from the hunters side so I'm not sure. All's I know is that it was a local Squamish person that's been here for a while (don't know who) and other long time locals know him and are saying that. Point being people are saying he illegally shot a wolf which would mean he didn't shoot it at Lucille lake, like the article says and on the other side of the highway. Either way it freaking sucks.

[Linksman313]

Think about it, a dark shaded Alaskan Malamute walks within out 300 yds of a hunter glassing a 2 year old cedar block... what happens next? This is becoming quite an issue, especially since the advent of wolves around the boundary and those who feel it is their responsibility to even the odds in the predator department (no judgement intended as even on this site their are mixed feelings on the subject of hunting wolves). I feel like putting signage out that warns the condo conglomerate and local dog walkers of hunting season commencing in the region. Of course it would have to be a very carefully worded sign stating "together we can achieve our choice of outdoor pursuit safely" blah blah.
P.S. My old malamute "Bandit" (RIP) looked and sounded identical to a wolf, that's why I picked the breed for an example.
Links

[ajeatoo]

The problem being if it was on the west side Lucille lake wolf would be open and if he was on the east side wolf is closed. There are strong rumors which I think might be more than rumors noe that she was on private property and asked not to be there a couple times and the hunter did have permission to be there. But let's leave that out as well just cause.

Yeah I've heard that too. I'm not sure where the private land is back there, I know there is a big hydro easement which some like to go for bears in.

[DeerForce]

I’m not sure what to make of the story. Perhaps it was just plain old innocence and bad timing, but…


All the history and actions that’s been brought forward about the dog owner presents a possible case of bad character on her part. Changing or colouring the story to raise funds on an internet platform with an ill informed audience, further illustrates this point. Taking the dogs off leash into crown land during hunting season is her right, but it’s not very bright, unless she has some twisted motives. She may simply just be unaware or ignorant; and while that too is justifiable, it’s lesson of experience.


Little is said or known about the hunter, but it would seem that his actions are also questionable.
It’s said that the incident took place near Lake Lucile that’s MU 2-6(wolves open) or MU 2-7(wolves closed). According to CBC; Popjes comment indicates it was more likely in MU 2-7(The south east side of the hwy). CBC article -> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/hunter-shoots-therapy-dog-1.4297487


“Popjes wouldn't say whether the man had mistaken the dog for another animal, but said it is legal hunting season on Crown land for mule deer and black bears. Wolves are also in season in parts of the surrounding area, but not where the shooting took place, according to conservation officers.”


That being said it can be speculated that he wasn’t hunting wolves or he was and wasn’t clear about the regs; at best he may have defending himself or mistaken it for legal quarry. An investigation into his decision to shoot the animal is merited for sure. Worst case scenario he was a trigger happy dumb ass itching to put down an animal. That would be a damn shame, but that’s real the case in question that has everyone up in arms about it.

[BRvalley]

The problem being if it was on the west side Lucille lake wolf would be open and if he was on the east side wolf is closed. There are strong rumors which I think might be more than rumors noe that she was on private property and asked not to be there a couple times and the hunter did have permission to be there. But let's leave that out as well just cause.

yes, was misleading the way the media printed the story...the incident occurred on the east side of highway 99, MU 2-7

[Gateholio]

yes, was misleading the way the media printed the story...the incident occurred on the east side of highway 99, MU 2-7

Is this 100% confirmed ?

[BRvalley]

yes, I emailed and requested clarification from the CO office

[charlie_horse]

So there you go wolf hunting was illegal then which doesn't help out a hunters cause. Now he poached a pet.

[chele]

So there you go wolf hunting was illegal then which doesn't help out a hunters cause. Now he poached a pet.

Then let's call him a poacher, not a hunter.

[KodiakHntr]

So there you go wolf hunting was illegal then which doesn't help out a hunters cause. Now he poached a pet.

No, he shot a dog.


Then let's call him a poacher, not a hunter.

IF he mistook the canine for a wolf, and shot it as such, then he was poaching, if he was in a closed area.

If he killed a dog, knowing it was a dog, in the company of a pack of dogs, then its a different story.

[Zedbra]

The problem being if it was on the west side Lucille lake wolf would be open and if he was on the east side wolf is closed. There are strong rumors which I think might be more than rumors noe that she was on private property and asked not to be there a couple times and the hunter did have permission to be there. But let's leave that out as well just cause.

I have seen this posted on FB by a few people - but I brushed it off as more internet BS.

[scoutlt1]

I'm still unable to wrap my head around this.

A dog is shot under very strange circumstances. Shooter is (apparently) "10 feet" away from dog, dog owner/walker, helper, and nine other dogs are also 10 feet away from the dog when it was shot. Ten feet?? I'm the worst shot out there, but damn, my tv is about ten feet away......
This happens on the 18th. On the 19th, one day later, a youtube video is out about the dog and the event, a change.org petition is up, and a gofundme page is created by the owner of the dog. The gofundme page has four very well thought out "goals". One goal talks about an amendment to the hunting regs for a 400m "no hunting zone" on either side of Hwy 99, and also incorporatates "Squamish Nation teachings". Another goal refers to "10,000 hours" of training for the dog that was shot, when in fact a dog of her "caliber" can be trained in a year to 18 months (there are about 8700 [total] hours in a year fyi...). Goal #3 talks about the "new centre" that is "days away from announcing the opening" for the dog owner, and how there will be a trail established named after the deceased dog. The final goal speaks to the "protection" of wolves in BC, and how this incident "brought attention the plight of the wolf" to the dog owner, when in fact it is clear that she has a long history of being strongly against wolf hunting.
Busy Monday night for this dog owner..................

A 400m "no-hunting zone" on either side of a hwy. Where/how did "400m" come up?????? Coincidence perhaps?

If my beloved pooch was shot and killed 10 feet in front of me, I'd be very choked up/pissed off and I wouldn't be coming up with all this in less than 24 hours. A couple of weeks or month later, maybe. In the words of the dog owner..."the amount of pain I feel should never be experienced by anyone, ever, for any reason".

See the Canine Valley (again, on the 19th....quite a detailed description of the incident) post included in this link...

http://people.com/pets/dog-shot-by-hunter-canada-mistaken-for-wolf/


Again, I'm sorry this dog was killed, regardless of how it "happened"....but "somethin' ain't right"....

[Gateholio]

No changes are planned to the hunting boundaries in the Sea to Sky region. That is the message from the Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development.
A petition is circulating on social media that wants to see the hunting boundary moved further away from Highway 99 for hunting between Squamish and Whistler. The call comes after a local therapy dog was accidentally shot by a hunter on a trail near Lucille Lake recently. The petition claims that the dog was shot 200 yards from the highway.





From North Vancouver to Squamish 1 kilometre to the east and 400 metres to the west of Highway 99 is designated as a no shooting zone. There are also areas around communities, parks and some lakes that are set aside as no shooting. Shooting restrictions on all numbered highways mean 15 metres either side of the centre line on single lane roads are classified as no shooting areas, while 15 metres from the edge of the paved road on either side is the area on a twinned highway. Lucille Lake is near a twinned portion of Highway 99.
Concerns of allowing hunting in the area have been raised by residents, given the proximity of Lucille Lake to the highway and the increase in recreational visitors to the overall region over recent years.
The Province says that human safety is their top priority and that they act swiftly when a safety concern is identified; the Conservation Officer Service is currently investigating the dog incident. In a statement to Mountain FM the Province says that ‘In most cases, Crown land throughout the province is multi-purpose, and incidents involving hunting and firearms are extremely rare’. Officials also say that ‘hunters need to be aware of their target and what is beyond it, if there is any doubt, don’t shoot’.
There are no signs alerting the public to hunting in the area, as is with most Crown land according to the Ministry; ‘Placing signs in areas of the province where hunting and other outdoor recreation occurs would be cost prohibitive’. Members of the public are advised to take safety precautions when walking on Crown land, such as keeping dogs on a leash or under control and making themselves visible and heard. It’s also recommended that dogs be outfitted with hi-vis or other markings to make them visible.
This story originally appeared on Mountain FM. (http://www.mountainfm.com/2017/09/27/no-plans-change-hunting-boundaries-sea-sky-region/)

[rimfire]

Members of the public are advised to take safety precautions when walking on Crown land, such as keeping dogs on a leash or under control and making themselves visible and heard. It’s also recommended that dogs be outfitted with hi-vis or other markings to make them visible.
This story originally appeared on Mountain FM. (http://www.mountainfm.com/2017/09/27/no-plans-change-hunting-boundaries-sea-sky-region/)

Which would have likely prevented this issue to begin with.

[Gateholio]

Charges may be recommended against a hunter who shot and killed a Squamish therapy dog near Lake Lucille on Sept. 18.
Valley Calderoni, founder of Canine Valley rehabilitation centre, was walking her dog, Kaoru, and nine other dogs from the centre, she said, when the dog was shot.
There was speculation Kaoru may have been mistaken for a wolf when the Squamish man shot her, but Sgt. Simon Gravel of the Conservation Officer Service told The Chief hunting of wolves is prohibited in the area where the incident occurred.
“The event occurred in the management area 2-7 and there is no wolf hunting in that specific area,” he said.



The 2-7 area is “fairly small” Gravel said, and has no open season on wolves, but it is surrounded by areas that are open.
Across the highway from where Kaoru was shot, wolf hunting is allowed. “It is the responsibility of the hunters to know where they are and know if there is an opening for the specific species they are hunting for,” Gravel said.
There is no signage that alerts hunters to boundaries, he confirmed.
Gravel said the investigation is continuing and is “thorough.”
Should it be deemed warranted, the Conservation Service would recommend charges to the Crown and if the charges are approved, the case moves forward.
Everyone involved with the incident is co-operating fully, according to Gravel.
The municipalities of Squamish and Whistler both have bylaws banning the discharge of firearms within their boundaries.
Outside municipal boundaries, there is no restriction on the discharge of firearms.
South of Squamish and north of West Vancouver there is a hunting closure that extends one kilometre east of Highway 99 and 400 metres west.
North of the District of Squamish there is no general hunting restriction, other than that firearms can’t be discharged from the road itself.
“You have to be 15 metres off the pavement if there is more than three lines and 15 metres off the centre line if there is less than three lines,” Gravel said.

**Please note this story has been corrected. The original story had the date of the incident as Sept. 28 rather than the correct date of Sept. 18.



@ Copyright 2017 Squamish Chief

[Buckzilla]

There was one several years ago just out of pemberton where a Samoyed was shot in a multiuser area popular with hunters, Mtn bikers, and dog walkers. The undeveloped area abuts residential development. Rumors circulated that the dog was chasing a deer - owner denied that. Either way, the general public was pissed. Rightfully, imho.

That was my Samoyed while I was biking with my wife. It was not chasing deer

[Bear Brawler]

Now lets just look at this scenario from a different perspective....

You are out walking slowly down a road, with your rifle over your shoulder, looking for legal game.

In front of you, a canine runs out on the road, and you can hear multiple other animals also in the brush running and breaking sticks. You immediately react before you completely process what you are seeing, and your rifle is coming off your shoulder into your hands. Your heart rate increases, and your focus is on the canine on the road immediately in front of you, when multiple other canines run out.

Some of those canines appear to be nervous/aggressive at being surprised by something they didn't expect to be there. You identify them as a pack of dogs, running loose, when the first animal closest to you takes some steps towards you. Whether it is acting aggressive or not, what do you do?
Bingo, this is close to what happened. I know the hunter, spoke to him the day after the event. I will not comment on what little he said but the above scenario is a very good place to start. He was in 2-7 though so he ****ed up thinking he was getting a chance at a wolf. Now here's what I don't understand. With all the comments, how come no one mentions the fact that she had walked into a closed rock quarry, deliberately around a closed gate? I know this because my buddy runs the quarry and was driving rock truck that day up and down and dumping near the bottom for the rocks to picked up. He has had a few run in with her and her dogs. He has explained numerous times to her it was private, unsafe and not to be in there walking her dogs as it's his lease, his gate. She always bitched about it being crown land blah blah and constantly defied him. I believe he had even talked to her that day but can't be sure. It's a very sad situation, I love my dog and can't imagine how I'd feel but...... She had been told to stay out of the area and refused to do so. I know that doesn't justify her dog being killed in anyway but, shows to the recklessness this person is know for. I live very close to her operation and see her lots while I'm out walking my dog(almost always off leash haha). If you could see what she calls dog care or walking services you'd be appalled. I've seen her walking down the road, not the shoulder, the road, with 5-6+ dogs on leashes all tied to her waist. I have commented numerous times to my friends and coworkers I'd be super pissed if I were paying for her services and saw her walking my dog, off her waist in such a manner. The dogs are tripping over themselves with all the leashes and no personal space. Again, no excuse for her dog being killed but I don't believe a word out her mouth after speaking to my buddies. She's a total anti hunter and her gofund thing I heard is being spent to further her agenda. GoFund me WTF?

[Zedbra]

Bingo, this is close to what happened. I know the hunter, spoke to him the day after the event. I will not comment on what little he said but the above scenario is a very good place to start. He was in 2-7 though so he ****ed up thinking he was getting a chance at a wolf. Now here's what I don't understand. With all the comments, how come no one mentions the fact that she had walked into a closed rock quarry, deliberately around a closed gate? I know this because my buddy runs the quarry and was driving rock truck that day up and down and dumping near the bottom for the rocks to picked up. He has had a few run in with her and her dogs. He has explained numerous times to her it was private, unsafe and not to be in there walking her dogs as it's his lease, his gate. She always bitched about it being crown land blah blah and constantly defied him. I believe he had even talked to her that day but can't be sure. It's a very sad situation, I love my dog and can't imagine how I'd feel but...... She had been told to stay out of the area and refused to do so. I know that doesn't justify her dog being killed in anyway but, shows to the recklessness this person is know for. I live very close to her operation and see her lots while I'm out walking my dog(almost always off leash haha). If you could see what she calls dog care or walking services you'd be appalled. I've seen her walking down the road, not the shoulder, the road, with 5-6+ dogs on leashes all tied to her waist. I have commented numerous times to my friends and coworkers I'd be super pissed if I were paying for her services and saw her walking my dog, off her waist in such a manner. The dogs are tripping over themselves with all the leashes and no personal space. Again, no excuse for her dog being killed but I don't believe a word out her mouth after speaking to my buddies. She's a total anti hunter and her gofund thing I heard is being spent to further her agenda. GoFund me WTF?

I heard of this - thanks for the clarity. Sad accident, the hunter made a mistake that has now become a big mistake - the walker though should also be held accountable - you can't help people that don't want to help themselves.