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campking
09-17-2017, 01:19 PM
Just read this on MSN News that Chief Joe Alphonse is calling for a end of the moose hunt this year.

I am wondering if this if there is any scientific research done to support his wish?

WILLIAMS LAKE, B.C. - A First Nations chief is calling on the British Columbia government to halt the moose hunt this year, arguing the historic wildfire season has caused enough trauma to the species.
Tl'etinqox Chief Joe Alphonse said the flames that have charred thousands of square kilometres of habitat in the province's Interior and hunting will only further endanger the moose population.
"Anyone who chooses to point a gun to a moose in the Chilcotin is contributing to the eventual problem of having no moose in the Chilcotin down the road," he said.
The largest fire ever recorded in the province's history at more than 5,210 square kilometres in size is still burning across the Chilcotin plateau, an area about 60 kilometres northwest of Williams Lake.
The province as a whole has seen a record-breaking 11,700 square kilometres scorched since April 1 and more than 150 fires continue to burn.
Alphonse said local crews had discovered two dead moose floating in a lake in an area that had been charred by fire.
But the province's forests ministry said in a statement that there remains "only a handful of reports" of wildlife killed, including one black bear, some wild horses in the Chilcotin and a couple of moose in the Cariboo region.
Forests Minister Doug Donaldson said in an interview that none of the 40 radio collared cow moose in the region were killed due to fires, but determining the extent of the wildlife devastation is imperative.
"We've already instituted some tools over concerns of moose populations and we're working closely with the Tsilqot'in national government to estimate and get a better handle and assessment of the impact that occurred because of these fires on wildlife," he said.
The provincial government issued 2,423 limited entry hunt permits for moose this year, which the forest ministry said is a reduction from previous years.
The forests ministry said roughly 60 per cent of moose hunting licences issued in the Cariboo region, which includes the Chilcotin, are set aside for First Nations, with the remaining number allocated to other resident hunters and guide outfitters.
"It is important to note that not all licensed hunters are successful, and while harvest rates vary year-to-year, on average, only one-third of (limited entry hunt) authorizations are successful," the ministry said.
It added that no licensed moose hunting was issued in September in areas most affected by wildfire, and many areas of the Cariboo region west of the Fraser River were already closed off as of 2016.
Many Crown land areas throughout the province also remain restricted to the public as fire crews continue their response and mop-up.
"If these restrictions are lifted before the end of the fall hunting season, wildlife biologists will reassess the situation to ensure the appropriate regulations are in place to protect wildlife," the ministry said.
But Alphonse said he's concerned about policing these restrictions, adding that First Nations are still fighting fires and don't have the resources to closely monitor any illegal hunting activity on their territory.
Alphonse confirmed that he has been working with provincial officials. He said he wants First Nations closely involved in any wildlife studies going forward and for the province to commit to conservation efforts.
"Why do we keep doing the same thing over and over and over again when all we see around us is animals going extinct?" he said. "Somebody has got to step up to the plate and take some leadership and try something different for a change and hopefully this government will be that change.

srupp
09-17-2017, 01:49 PM
Hmmm 2423 moose hunting licenses in Cariboo..60 % allocated to FN. .=1,453.80 scraps left over to hunters, guides..pathetic.
3% is fn...seems pretty fair..3% of populating is fn..they should get 3% of tags..minus 2 tags per every cow moose shot.

2423 tags..3%.....73 tags

Plus plenty shot on qt"
Srupp

gcreek
09-17-2017, 02:00 PM
You have to admit Steven that the idea does have merit.

As for scientific evidence...... a lot of that can be skewed to what govt prefers to do also.

We "anecdotals" just aren't seeing many moose in the whole Chilcotin. Big change from a short 30 years ago when it was common to see 40 a day if you were out in the bush.

RDM
09-17-2017, 02:03 PM
Like your thinking Steven. I was just thinking the same.

260rem
09-17-2017, 04:49 PM
Not sure if this is the final answer but if the decision is made to shut it down I will abide by it if the season is shut down to all groups no exceptions whatsoever no if ands or buts.If anyone is caught hunting or harvesting a moose all parties involved should be fined,have all equipment including firearms and vehicles that were used confiscated and moose hunting rights taken away no exceptions for anyone or group.Not to be a hardass but that is the way I am feeling about it,tired of being told I am the problem when I harvest one moose every 5-10 years!

Cyrus
09-17-2017, 06:06 PM
So shut it down where exactly? Everywhere? A lot if not most of region 5 was not burned.

Shikari300WSM
09-17-2017, 07:07 PM
I'd happily stop hunting moose just as long as all FN stopped hunting them as well. Of course that will never happen. They would never stop hunting moose.

HankBC
09-17-2017, 08:57 PM
Gotta say I really like Srupp's thinking on the matter. Sure would be nice if I'd stop seeing so many cows being taken.

blackhawk19
09-18-2017, 08:01 AM
stop the cow shooting .It's amassing what this will do for the moose population . This chief is using this for the lack of moose .nice try

Bugle M In
09-18-2017, 09:25 AM
Ya right, if he can actually control some of his members!!
If he feels there is a problem, he doesn't have to go any further then to look at his own people to see why there is a problem.
As said, stop shooting cows...and maybe start reporting their annual harvest for once.
He should start there, before he goes any further.

poper
09-18-2017, 07:08 PM
Hmmm kinda sounds like what's going on, on the fraser river

HarryToolips
09-18-2017, 08:13 PM
I wonder if the chief will ever have the kahunas to state what is the greatest contributor to the moose decline in reg 5 - FN cow harvest....

gcreek
09-18-2017, 10:08 PM
I wonder if the chief will ever have the kahunas to state what is the greatest contributor to the moose decline in reg 5 - FN cow harvest....


Sorry bud, it's predators. hunters second.........

wideopenthrottle
09-19-2017, 07:20 AM
it is a power play ..plain and simple...remember how water restrictions came in on a year when they screwed up and lowered water levels for a repair then refilled the reservoir only to find out the repair had not been inspected properly so they took the level down again when the summer drought hit....they screwed up and were able to justify watering restrictions...a lot of money was saved so they started doing it routinely even though we have above average levels of water and snow pack...any ban will be the thin edge of the wedge...

mpotzold
09-19-2017, 09:26 AM
Sorry bud, it's predators. hunters second.........

I'll second that!

No doubt bears are mostly responsible. I've been hunting in the 5 region west of Fraser since '67 & saw the bear(mostly black) population explode in the area from maybe 1 per hunting trip to over a dozen. And we all know they target the very young when it's most vulnerable. Many rigorous studies will attest to that.

As for wolves no doubt they are also a problem but to much lesser degree.
Over the years we'd see a lone wolf here & there but a few years back a pack of wolves approached our camp at daybreak north of Gang. Saw some fresh tracks the day before & called them in(have a video somewhere)

Another time recently, 2 walked right through our camp during the middle of the night. Surprisingly our dog was quiet.
Then there are the cats. I'm sure they'll kill a young given a chance.

Dubya
09-19-2017, 09:57 AM
I'll second that!

No doubt bears are mostly responsible. I've been hunting in the 5 region west of Fraser since '67 & saw the bear(mostly black) population explode in the area from maybe 1 per hunting trip to over a dozen. And we all know they target the very young when it's most vulnerable. Many rigorous studies will attest to that.

As for wolves no doubt they are also a problem but to much lesser degree.
Over the years we'd see a lone wolf here & there but a few years back a pack of wolves approached our camp at daybreak north of Gang. Saw some fresh tracks the day before & called them in(have a video somewhere)


Another time recently, 2 walked right through our camp during the middle of the night. Surprisingly our dog was quiet.
Then there are the cats. I'm sure they'll kill a young given a chance.


I don't really know what is killing them more wolves or people. They just need to stop moose hunting for a while and promote wolf hunting more.
I also don't care what color you skin is, where you grew up or how long you have been hunting where everyone should just stop for a few years.

Not sure about the bear population out west, seems about the same to me. I'm in the chilcotin a lot for work, hunting, fishing and don't really see more than I did years ago. East of the puddle mind you there is a crap load.

This is of course is just what I am seeing, I don't have any stats to back this up. I have been wrong ONCE before too, back in 2009 when I said my wings were winning the cup.

338 Mag
09-19-2017, 10:58 AM
Bugle M In nailed it.............

Problem here is no accountability with F/N and as soon as anyone says anything .Out comes the Discrimination Card,The system needs more teeth in it and in order to have it managed correctly. Everyone in this all should be treated equal and be on the same page. Any chance they get they'll try and pass it off hoping we all are wearing our stupid hats.........

Darksith
09-19-2017, 11:08 AM
the FN unregulated harvest will be the death of all of our big game populations...

ajeatoo
09-19-2017, 11:15 AM
Hmmm 2423 moose hunting licenses in Cariboo..60 % allocated to FN. .=1,453.80 scraps left over to hunters, guides..pathetic.
3% is fn...seems pretty fair..3% of populating is fn..they should get 3% of tags..minus 2 tags per every cow moose shot.

2423 tags..3%.....73 tags

Plus plenty shot on qt"
Srupp


That's the first thing that ran through my mind as well...

mpotzold
09-19-2017, 12:28 PM
Ya right, if he can actually control some of his members!!
If he feels there is a problem, he doesn't have to go any further then to look at his own people to see why there is a problem.
As said, stop shooting cows...and maybe start reporting their annual harvest for once.
He should start there, before he goes any further.

As we all know the FN hunting rights are protected under Section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982. But they are not absolute. In the name of conservation & safety the number, sex & age of animals harvested must and can be controlled. In the name of safety & fair chase the FN night hunting must be repealed & stopped for ever.

I always agreed that proper management of wildlife is next to useless without having access to numbers harvested by the FN. A guessing game is simply not good enough.
Cow & calf(1/2 female) must be stopped by all until the numbers fully recover.

The govt should show some teeth & forget about the political correctness crap.

srupp
09-19-2017, 01:36 PM
If chief Joe gets on board it could be solved.terminate residency on Rez for non compliance worked on Sugar cane Rez.
All preditor hunting must be encouraged..cougar, wolf, bear black and GRIZZLY..
To save the moose all avenues must be explored..if it's shown it can't support hunting shut it down for everyone..
I don't think they have had the time nor resources to credibly establish moose mortality..cow.bull ratios or if we have crossed the fine line of non recovery..with the species threatened they can in fact close it down to all hunting including fn.
Srupp

HarryToolips
09-19-2017, 09:44 PM
As we all know the FN hunting rights are protected under Section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982. But they are not absolute. In the name of conservation & safety the number, sex & age of animals harvested must and can be controlled. In the name of safety & fair chase the FN night hunting must be repealed & stopped for ever.

I always agreed that proper management of wildlife is next to useless without having access to numbers harvested by the FN. A guessing game is simply not good enough.
Cow & calf(1/2 female) must be stopped by all until the numbers fully recover.

The govt should show some teeth & forget about the political correctness crap.
I agree with everything here..

HarryToolips
09-19-2017, 09:46 PM
Sorry bud, it's predators. hunters second.........
Ok thanks for the info...either way, their cow harvest needs to be stopped by the sounds of it..

gcreek
09-20-2017, 07:08 AM
Ok thanks for the info...either way, their cow harvest needs to be stopped by the sounds of it..


Yes, that is needed too.

elch jager
09-21-2017, 11:02 AM
Hmmm... I found this guy's work to be good reading. I can't help but wonder if his personal ethics/emotions have influenced his conclusions. He maintains that predator management has no effect on population health of moose. Habitat is the end all and be all...

In my view a dead pred doesn't eat... and that's a good thing.

https://www.adn.com/opinions/2017/07/16/intensive-game-management/


(https://www.adn.com/opinions/2017/07/16/intensive-game-management/)https://www.adn.com/author/vic-van-ballenberghe/