GOS Sheep Hunt

[KimberKid]

Hey HBC,

Genuinely curious, has anyone here ever actually taken a full curl Ram in any GOS in BC? Don't need to specify which MU, but honestly it seems incredibly challenging. Not only are the Rams massive at a full curl, but the terrain would be incredibly difficult otherwise I am sure many more people would be connecting on sheep. I would love to go on a sheep hunt in the next couple years, and would love to do some power dreaming about some of the Rams you have shot.
Thanks
KK

EDIT: If you have any threads or photos feel free to post them!

[twoSevenO]

Do a search ... tons of hardcore sheep hunters on this site do that .... some multiple times in a row.

[Stone C. Killer]

yup. 1. just get out there and suprise yourself

[KimberKid]

Were they Thinhorn or Bighorn? Which one is more difficult in your opinion?

[srupp]

3 rams GOS...
Srupp

[Stone C. Killer]

Bighorn. Which ever one you dont have is more difficult

[KimberKid]

Are the sheep hunts quite competitive? How many other hunters do you see and if you could put a ratio from all other sheep to a Full curl, what would it be? Is it like a spike fork bull (1:200 approximately) or more rare?

[Stone C. Killer]

Took me one afternoon. I saw three other sheep hunters thay day. 7 rams. 1 legal. First day bighorn hunting.

[twoSevenO]

Took me one afternoon. I saw three other sheep hunters thay day. 7 rams. 1 legal. First day bighorn hunting.

I bet this guy applies for an LEH once and gets it too. :P

[Stone C. Killer]

you'll never hit if your not swinging...

[1/2 slam]

Yes.....40" stone the first day.

[bighornbob]

I have taken three full curl bighorns in about 20 years of hunting them. First was a east kootenay bighorn, next was a full curl California bighorn off the fraser in a GOS area and the last was a above the bridge of the nose Rocky from Spences Bridge.

Yes they are tough in all areas they live in, that's what makes it challenging, frustrating and exhilarating all at the same time. Some areas and times you are glassing the hills with 5 guys beside you and other times I can have the whole area to myself and not see another person for the three day weekend.

The only thing I will guarantee you is, you will never kill a sheep sitting on your couch dreaming about getting an LEH for one of the areas. I have said this many times on this site, get out and hunt the GOS, learn the areas and you never know when the sheep gods will smile on you. It also helps when and if you get an LEH tag to actually get have a real good chance at getting a ram. I have heard lots of stories of guys getting sheep LEH's and thinking its a guarantee just because they pulled a 35:1 tag or something. They quickly find out its not going to be easy and most go home empty handed or with a ram that is far from full curl.

Hunt the GOS before its gone. Guys in the states would give both their nuts and their first born for a chance to hunt sheep once in their lifetime. We can hunt them here for almost two months for a $60 tag. Go out and do it.

BHB

[Shikari300WSM]

you'll never hit if your not swinging...

Haha love that..very true. Been on one sheep hunt. Most frustrating hunt ever. Went home empty handed but man to climb the mountain and atleast be able to glass sheep and see them in their natural surroundings was worth it!

[backcountry99]

GOS sheep are not easy, I cant comment on the open cali areas but the open rocky areas are the lowest success rate hardest hunt ive ever done with very stiff competition.
open season thinhorns are tuff to but theres just more of them and there is a lot more area to hunt. If you stay away from rivers and highways the competition is alot less if not it can be a rat race to!

good luck!

And ps anyone who killed rams on there first day of hunting just got lucky, its not easy!

[71_camaro]

They dont grow on trees but if you put in the TIME youll find them.took me 6 years.hike in off hwy

[ryanb]

Put yourself in good sheep country, in good shape, with good gear and optics, and most importantly of all, HAVE A CAN DO ATTITUDE, and you stand a very good chance of success.

[twoSevenO]

Put yourself in good sheep country

right, but this part right here is what takes years for some people, i'm sure .... if you're doing it all by yourself.

[backcountry99]

right, but this part right here is what takes years for some people, i'm sure .... if you're doing it all by yourself.

This is were most sheep hunters stumble in my opinion and follow the masses blindly!
To much envasis on were everyone else is having success!

the hunters that find there own forgotten or tucked away spots enjoy the biggest success and dont fight the crowds.

[twoSevenO]

This is were most sheep hunters stumble in my opinion and follow the masses blindly!
To much envasis on were everyone else is having success!

the hunters that find there own forgotten or tucked away spots enjoy the biggest success and dont fight the crowds.

Sure, but what options do you have? A huge percentage of sheep hunters live significantly south of the sheep hunting areas. With fly in costs or the 16hr drive times, how many "scouting" trips can you really make?

[backcountry99]

Sure, but what options do you have? A huge percentage of sheep hunters live significantly south of the sheep hunting areas. With fly in costs or the 16hr drive times, how many "scouting" trips can you really make?

It just takes time! The time it takes is what makes It so rewarding

For starters if its talked about on the internet forget it, after that go explore youll figure it out pretty quick.

[ryanb]

Sure, but what options do you have? A huge percentage of sheep hunters live significantly south of the sheep hunting areas. With fly in costs or the 16hr drive times, how many "scouting" trips can you really make?

Do your research, pick an area that you think will be good and go hunt the shit out of it. Don't let anything hold you back, go up there with the attitude you WILL kill a sheep, and you just might

[boxhitch]

This is were most sheep hunters stumble in my opinion and follow the masses blindly!
To much envasis on were everyone else is having success!

the hunters that find there own forgotten or tucked away spots enjoy the biggest success and dont fight the crowds.
Just like fishing.
You can go to the lakes everyone talks about, fish the shoals where all the boats are, but not use the right colour and come up empty, or hit the right one and be the only lucky boat..
Or you can find your own pond and try every hook in your box and catch a bucket full.....or get skunked

But generally there are no secret spots, most everywhere that holds rams gets hunted at one time or another, pressure ebbs and flows.
And not all hunters are equal either, many spots get hunted with no kills just because the sheep are overlooked.
Some have a map in hand with an X on the spot and still don't get their ram . First day 40's likely had some intel

Fishing and Hunting..........fun huh?

[twoSevenO]

pick an area that you think will be good and go hunt the shit out of it

and for most beginners that area is going to be one of the few popular spots that they've heard about from someone or read about on here, hence the "crowds".

I don't hunt sheep. But if I did, how the hell would i know what area would be good? I wouldn't. I'd have to start by going off what I heard from others, and would probably end up in an area with other hunters around. That's the point im making. Not that it can't be done, just that it's probably the way it ends up going for most newbie sheep hunters.

[bighornbob]

I don't hunt sheep. But if I did, how the hell would i know what area would be good? I wouldn't. I'd have to start by going off what I heard from others, and would probably end up in an area with other hunters around. That's the point im making. Not that it can't be done, just that it's probably the way it ends up going for most newbie sheep hunters.

Knowing where to start is the issue for most learned sports. Take golf for example, most people don’t wake up one day and go “Im going to start playing golf today”, go buy clubs and book a round of 18 holes that same day and shooting close to par. There is a natural progression that will most likely take place, watching golf on TV, buying books on golf, hanging out with other golfers, starting on the putting green etc etc.

No real difference in sheep hunting, watch the shows, read the books, talk to other sheep hunters, start on the putting green, go look for sheep in the summer, go in the winter etc etc. Like golf one would not expect shooting a good round the first year of golf. No different in sheep hunting. Sure it might happen where a rookie hunter goes out and shoots a ram the first trip without any firsthand knowledge but its tough. If its not feasible to scout for sheep, there are a lot of resources on the net that can give you a good starting point. Govt reports list creek names and some have maps of sheep distributions, sheep numbers etc. The BC record book lists kill locations. Some of these are pretty general like “Muskwa river” but others put the exact creek down. Spend some weeks looking into the names and looking for them on topo maps, do some detective work. Next go to google earth and look for the creeks and lakes etc. See what the mountains look like, how far are they from the lakes etc and think how far would most people be willing to walk. Even doing all this homework might get you the right lake to land at but it might take two or three trips to narrow down the valley the sheep like to hang out in.
The problem with a lot of new sheep hunters is they think just because they book a $1000 flight into some lake they should be successful their first year. No golfer who buys clubs the first year expects to shoot a good round that same year. So why would sheep hunting be any different. Personally I have talked to guys who don’t want to put the effort, time or money into a sheep hunt unless there is a real good chance of them being successful. Even when I have offered to put X’s on the map that would get them into sheep, the chance of rain or summer smoke or other hunters already there have kept them from going.

New sheep hunters have to learn that even with the best gear in the world, X’s on maps etc your odds of killing a sheep might only be 20%. Its still a needle in a haystack for the most part. Are you alright with this stat and the low chance of success?

There is a good reason that old saying is so true “The first ram you kill will probably be born the year you start sheep hunting.” That means its probably going to take you 7-8 years of sheep hunting before you kill a ram. Not sure who coined this term but they did it to be honest about the hardships of sheep hunting not to keep new hunters out of the mountains.

BHB

[twoSevenO]

^ yup. well put. So with the time dedication, the cost and low success rates it's exactly why you get so few new people venturing into uncharted territory on their own .... A lot of people consider a hunt without a harvest a failure and waste of their time and money.

[bighornbob]

A lot of people consider a hunt without a harvest a failure and waste of their time and money.

This is exactly it. I know when I shot my ram at spences I had guys scrambling to go out with me, willing to pay all the expences for the week. That is until I told them it was the first ram I killed in the area in 20 years of hunting the area on and off. Now its down to 1-2 guys that wanted to go out before I shot the ram as they went out on their own a few times.

The chance of harvest will not change but the cost spent can vary immensely. Every sheep hunt does not have to be a two week fly-in adventure. For the guys on the coast, you can drive too spences bridge in a few hours and be hunting sheep. Sleep in your truck or tent it. Probably no different then driving to princeton for deer. I live in Kamloops so I am only about 1.5 hours from hunting sheep. I have made three weekend trips before in a season and been the only guy out there one of those weekends. Sure there are deer (very few) and bear so you could kill other species but when focusing on sheep I am not going to hike 3 hours for a bear. I'm there for sheep and I stay focused.

You don't need Kuiu gear or Swarovski optics to hunt sheep either. I killed all three of my rams with a bushnell spacemaster spotter.

BHB

[Ltbullken]

Plenty taken! And it is a journey. It is said that the year you start sheep hunting is the year that 'your' ram is born.

[Ltbullken]

This is exactly it. I know when I shot my ram at spences I had guys scrambling to go out with me, willing to pay all the expences for the week. That is until I told them it was the first ram I killed in the area in 20 years of hunting the area on and off. Now its down to 1-2 guys that wanted to go out before I shot the ram as they went out on their own a few times.

The chance of harvest will not change but the cost spent can vary immensely. Every sheep hunt does not have to be a two week fly-in adventure. For the guys on the coast, you can drive too spences bridge in a few hours and be hunting sheep. Sleep in your truck or tent it. Probably no different then driving to princeton for deer. I live in Kamloops so I am only about 1.5 hours from hunting sheep. I have made three weekend trips before in a season and been the only guy out there one of those weekends. Sure there are deer (very few) and bear so you could kill other species but when focusing on sheep I am not going to hike 3 hours for a bear. I'm there for sheep and I stay focused.

You don't need Kuiu gear or Swarovski optics to hunt sheep either. I killed all three of my rams with a bushnell spacemaster spotter.

BHB

Dude! If you're not wearing Kuiu, do you even hunt? :P

[backcountry99]

Thats the problem, to much enphasis on killing!

and theres sheep in the southern half of the province to dont have to make the big drive north.

pretty easy to know were sheep are in the north go anywhere from dease lake to muncho and even more and theres sheep. Avoid areas that outfitters advertise to heavily and the current hot zones on the internet and the odds are youll have a great hunt without stupid pressure. And with time youll learn the better valleys and the common ram hangouts. And if success is paramount then maybe hunting might be the wrong sport.

[bighornbob]

Dude! If you're not wearing Kuiu, do you even hunt? :P

Just made my first Kuiu order last month. I bought 10 hip belt pouches for large sum of $13.50 CAN to my door:):) Gave a set to each sheep hunting buddy.

BHB

[twoSevenO]

and theres sheep in the southern half of the province to dont have to make the big drive north.

Lower sheep numbers than up north, but closer to home so you can actually afford to go scout out of season .... i'd be curious to know how many full curl GOS rams are taken in south parts of the province. That would be very interesting to know. I'm gonna guess 2 lol.


And if success is paramount then maybe hunting might be the wrong sport.

well not really ... you could just hire a guide .... if you can afford it. If i was rich i'd probably book a sheep trip every single year. Still have a kick ass time in the mountains with a significantly higher chance of harvesting one.

[Steelpulse]

Yes i recall reading something over the years in the interior the harvest of rams is 0-2 a year. Ive alwas thought about giving it a few years to try and find one as i have time and live in vancouver and no problem going out every weekend

Would be a commitment for sure but worth every minute after dropping a full curl gos sheep

[Rackmastr]

Lower sheep numbers than up north, but closer to home so you can actually afford to go scout out of season .... i'd be curious to know how many full curl GOS rams are taken in south parts of the province. That would be very interesting to know. I'm gonna guess 2 lol.



There are a lot more than 2 rams killed in the southern part of the province on GOS every year. My guess is you're forgetting about the Kootenays where a decent number are killed each year.

[twoSevenO]

^ Kootenays are Alberta to me :mrgreen:

[twoSevenO]

why don't they publish the numbers? It's mandatory inspection on all of them, isn't it? So they must have the full count.

[backcountry99]

I think they kill a couple a year in spences and they will be really big rams with the bridge of the noise requirements.
The koots fluctuates but 15 is a good avg.
I couldnt even guess the GOS cali's?

And yes you could hire a guide but I dont get the draw to paying a whole bunch of money to shoot a ram that someone else found for you......each to there own though

[Moose63]

Knowing where to start is the issue for most learned sports. Take golf for example, most people don’t wake up one day and go “Im going to start playing golf today”, go buy clubs and book a round of 18 holes that same day and shooting close to par. There is a natural progression that will most likely take place, watching golf on TV, buying books on golf, hanging out with other golfers, starting on the putting green etc etc.

No real difference in sheep hunting, watch the shows, read the books, talk to other sheep hunters, start on the putting green, go look for sheep in the summer, go in the winter etc etc. Like golf one would not expect shooting a good round the first year of golf. No different in sheep hunting. Sure it might happen where a rookie hunter goes out and shoots a ram the first trip without any firsthand knowledge but its tough. If its not feasible to scout for sheep, there are a lot of resources on the net that can give you a good starting point. Govt reports list creek names and some have maps of sheep distributions, sheep numbers etc. The BC record book lists kill locations. Some of these are pretty general like “Muskwa river” but others put the exact creek down. Spend some weeks looking into the names and looking for them on topo maps, do some detective work. Next go to google earth and look for the creeks and lakes etc. See what the mountains look like, how far are they from the lakes etc and think how far would most people be willing to walk. Even doing all this homework might get you the right lake to land at but it might take two or three trips to narrow down the valley the sheep like to hang out in.
The problem with a lot of new sheep hunters is they think just because they book a $1000 flight into some lake they should be successful their first year. No golfer who buys clubs the first year expects to shoot a good round that same year. So why would sheep hunting be any different. Personally I have talked to guys who don’t want to put the effort, time or money into a sheep hunt unless there is a real good chance of them being successful. Even when I have offered to put X’s on the map that would get them into sheep, the chance of rain or summer smoke or other hunters already there have kept them from going.

New sheep hunters have to learn that even with the best gear in the world, X’s on maps etc your odds of killing a sheep might only be 20%. Its still a needle in a haystack for the most part. Are you alright with this stat and the low chance of success?

There is a good reason that old saying is so true “The first ram you kill will probably be born the year you start sheep hunting.” That means its probably going to take you 7-8 years of sheep hunting before you kill a ram. Not sure who coined this term but they did it to be honest about the hardships of sheep hunting not to keep new hunters out of the mountains.

BHB

Good post BHB

[KimberKid]

Wow, some of the information here is amazing. It would be very interesting to see statistics on how many GOS Sheep are killed each year. I am still very young (17) but I am planning for the future with many of these hunts. I would love to go camping in North West BC and just scout for game there, as there are many GOS on Moose, Bear, etc. The next question I have is that I have seen some regions with Thinhorn Sheep open seasons (MU 6-18+) if I was to plan really a scouting trip (I would probably buy tags anyway) up there, is it really as easy as just pulling over on the highway and starting to hike up a mountain? Do you follow creeks or roads preferably or can you literally pull over and just start walking? I am under the impression that the terrain is incredibly steep and gnarly. Also, what is the bear situation like up there? I am too young to possess a rifle and with my parents work commitments it may come down to a solo trip for me no gun, just scouting. I understand there is a lot of potential for something to go wrong (not having a gun on me would make me quite paranoid hahaha) but I am very motivated to get out and just start exploring!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

This should help you narrow down your search
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/esd/distdata/ecosystems/frpa/Ungulate_Data_and_Maps/plots_and_pdfs/mountain_sheep.pdf

[bighornbob]

In 3-17 ( the southern half/ Spences bridge Lytton) the number is around 2-3 a year and that's above the bridge of the nose. No clue on the northern 3-17 Cali area or for 3-32 and 3-31. But I would say it's at least 2-3 as I usually hear of one or know someone who knows someone. but could be higher as I am sure there are some locals who just shoot them and go home and don't email people their photos etc.

The issue in the latter areas is the harvest is recorded as Rams so that would include the leh hunts. But I am sure the bio could pull the data.

i would bet the koots get a dozen or so Rams a year.

[boxhitch]

........There is a good reason that old saying is so true “The first ram you kill will probably be born the year you start sheep hunting.” That means its probably going to take you 7-8 years of sheep hunting before you kill a ram. Not sure who coined this term but they did it to be honest about the hardships of sheep hunting not to keep new hunters out of the mountains.......Likely coined in a time before the interweb was discovered, and before hunt clubs became so popular. Teknolodging has lots of info available, game counts and habitat maps and harvest stats can be had with a few key strokes

[J_T]

Perhaps as an indicator of where things are going, Gov is presently recommending changes to Sheep hunts in Reg 4. Closing LEH and moving some GOS MU's to LEH.

[Ltbullken]

why don't they publish the numbers? It's mandatory inspection on all of them, isn't it? So they must have the full count.

The numbers are published. Just need to know where to find them. If you call the Regional Biologist, you can probably find out where that information can be found.

[Walking Buffalo]

Perhaps as an indicator of where things are going, Gov is presently recommending changes to Sheep hunts in Reg 4. Closing LEH and moving some GOS MU's to LEH.


I hear that you BC hunters are causing severe genetic and phenotypic selection in both Bighorn and Thinhorn sheep, thus the need to further restrict the slaughter.

[boxhitch]

J-T and WB, letting the fly dap softly............

[BgBlkDg]

Good point, the preceding comment is hilarious if one "passed" Bio. 100 or even high school biology.......

[Walking Buffalo]

J-T and WB, letting the fly dap softly............

Someone is swallowing the bait.
Including the BCWF?

Harvest Regulations and Artificial Selection on Horn Size in Male Bighorn Sheep

http://marco.recherche.usherbrooke.ca/pdffiles/HengeveldJWM11.pdf

^ BC Kootenay based study. See advised hunting closures and further restrictive regulations/allowable harvest.


And now the attack on Thinhorn hunters.
Well, except perhaps the outfitters. Outfitters may be the saviour for Thinhorns from those depraved Residents....

Changes in horn size of Stone’s sheep over four decades correlate with trophy hunting pressure

http://www.synergyecology.ca/saewordpress/wp-content/uploads/DouhardPreprint2015_EcolAppl_StonesSheephorns.pdf




And what about the fact Bighorns are being harvested at around 1/2 of the Allowable Harvest under current hunting regimes in many areas?
The Plan clearly states that if under-utilization occurs, additional hunting opportunities will be implemented.
But they are not....


We fought ridiculously hard in Alberta to fight these anti-hunting genetic harm advocates, and are winning.
It is sad to see BC ignoring what they are up to, quietly putting up with the incessant chipping away of hunting opportunities.

[Ltbullken]

I hear that you BC hunters are causing severe genetic and phenotypic selection in both Bighorn and Thinhorn sheep, thus the need to further restrict the slaughter.

Source please.

[Walking Buffalo]

Source please.

Already provided right above your request.

[boxhitch]

Not sure of your point. Citing a scientific paper that has nothing to do with regulation change.
The paper is 7 years old, and no one has tried to run it up the pole in BC........or can you show different?


And what about the fact Bighorns are being harvested at around 1/2 of the Allowable Harvest under current hunting regimes in many areas?
The Plan clearly states that if under-utilization occurs, additional hunting opportunities will be implemented.
But they are not.... This is also confusing. IF the harvest is 1/2 of AH, is 'the regime' what is holding it back?
If so then utilization is correct according to limits set.
If the harvest is 1/2 of AH only due to lack of effort, then no need for reg changes to increase opportunity...........???

You can't blend Alberta problems with BC problems.

[HighCountryBC]

Lower sheep numbers than up north, but closer to home so you can actually afford to go scout out of season .... i'd be curious to know how many full curl GOS rams are taken in south parts of the province. That would be very interesting to know. I'm gonna guess 2 lol.

well not really ... you could just hire a guide .... if you can afford it. If i was rich i'd probably book a sheep trip every single year. Still have a kick ass time in the mountains with a significantly higher chance of harvesting one.

They're all compulsory inspected. Easy to get your hands on the numbers if you ask as it's all available.

[Walking Buffalo]

Not sure of your point. Citing a scientific paper that has nothing to do with regulation change.
The paper is 7 years old, and no one has tried to run it up the pole in BC........or can you show different?

This is also confusing. IF the harvest is 1/2 of AH, is 'the regime' what is holding it back?
If so then utilization is correct according to limits set.
If the harvest is 1/2 of AH only due to lack of effort, then no need for reg changes to increase opportunity...........???

You can't blend Alberta problems with BC problems.

JT alludes to progress in these researchers desire to reduce and eliminate sheep hunting.
I've spoken with BCWF and BCWSF execs that are not interested or concerned that the science behind these papers is severely flawed.
Some seem to be content in limiting harvest well below sustainable levels. I could only assume from the conversations that the reasoning was to have less sheep hunters on the same hills they climb. Hate to say it, but it is what it is.

Mechanisms and criteria for reaching AH is established with detail in the Sheep management plans.
These protocols are not being followed.


Actually you and We can and must blend Alberta's and BC's "problems" in this matter.

This problem is an international action intending to establish a new wildlife conservation model, known as the "Compassionate Wildlife Management Model.
The new model places hunting as a last means tools to only be used for population control.
The new model desires to be "Compassionate" to wildlife, meaning the end of hunting.
The willingness for these researchers to Conclude and promote extensive restrictions to Sheep hunting based of flawed science is a problem ALL hunters around the world share.

[BgBlkDg]

I agree on the "compassionate" issue and we in BC do suffer from the actions of these often foreign zealots.

I also have seen evidence of their pernicious and vile behaviour in AB, while employed there in the AFS. I detest such scum and laugh at the "wildlife bios" they present as "experts" on, for example, BC Grizzlies.

However, I am curious as to your personal qualifications to determine how the current science you refer to above is "flawed"? Which, specific studies are flawed and in what manner?