Lying on an PAC application

[elknut]

So have a question ...If someone knowingly falsifies an application on a PAL ....Does not put in his spouse and only applies by himself what ramifications can he face ?...If you have a common law spouse and do not include her in the application ...Is the person liable for a criminal charge ?.Can the firearms officer revoke his PAL and seize his firearms ?..

[RiverOtter]

Sounds like a, "Friend of a Friend's Buddy" kinda question.

No idea on criminal charges(Though likely, especially if your attempting to hide violence, mental health, etc.) , but getting your PAL revoked is a very real consequence.

[elknut]

Yah its not for me !...I follow the law !...But really interested in the possible outcomes from falsifying an application ..Its Federal so could be big trouble !...Will hope someone with soime knowledge will help answer this question..

[Island Idiots]

Why not call the police and ask them?

[elknut]

Was thinking that ...But wanted to be annoymous !..Have a cell phone so they would know my name ..

[Island Idiots]

Sounds like your afraid of the police. I suggest you contact a lawyer and ask them if providing false information on a Federal firearm document is illegal.
I think everyone here knows the answer but I wouldn't seek such advise on a hunting forum.

[Gateholio]

Read the fine print on the application. You are making a legal declaration.

[russm]

Sounds like someone doesn't want their wife to know about a firearms license, when I first got mine I was single, when I did my first renewal I had just gotten married and they wouldn't renew until they spoke to the new wife to make sure she was cool with it. I would imagine lying about it on an application probably isn't the best idea.

[Fella]

Do you honestly think the RCMP isn't going to check deep enough into you to know you have a common law partner?

[Whonnock Boy]

Unless you are using an IP service, you have zero anonymity here.
Was thinking that ...But wanted to be annoymous !..Have a cell phone so they would know my name ..

[BRvalley]

just be truthful...

I had a falling out with one of my references, he refused to call them back...I called and explained with the CFO office, no problems at all, they seemed to barely care and PAL was issued without issue

[Fella]

They didn't even call my wife when I applied, but that was almost 5 years ago

[Macnbro]

Hey, I'm a lawyer (not a criminal lawyer) but I had a quick read of the act. Don't lie on a PAL application. First off lying on a declaration is an offence and believe it or not can fetch prison time and certainly fines.

In this case you are looking at the firearms act which is a federal piece of legislation. Section 106 is what you want to look at. Punishments set out in section 109. I've copy pasted from the gov't page for your reference. Looks like you can get up to 5 years in the slammer



106 (1) Every person commits an offence who, for the purpose of procuring a licence, registration certificate or authorization for that person or any other person, knowingly makes a statement orally or in writing that is false or misleading or knowingly fails to disclose any information that is relevant to the application for the licence, registration certificate or authorization.


109 Every person who commits an offence under section 106, 107 or 108, who contravenes subsection 29(1) or who contravenes a regulation made under paragraph 117(d), (e), (f), (g), (i), (j), (l), (m) or (n) the contravention of which has been made an offence under paragraph 117(o)


(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Not trying to scare anyone, but why lie on a PAL application. Tell your friend of a friend of a cousin's buddy not to do it.

[Ron.C]

So have a question ...If someone knowingly falsifies an application on a PAL ....Does not put in his spouse and only applies by himself what ramifications can he face ?...If you have a common law spouse and do not include her in the application ...Is the person liable for a criminal charge ?.Can the firearms officer revoke his PAL and seize his firearms ?..
I'm no lawyer, but I'd say if the CFC found out you intentionally omitted required information you'd probably ,at a minimum ,get your application cancelled. If they find out you lied, I'd say you'll be in some hot water. See the post above.

[finngun]

johnny cash god's gonna cut you down on y tube tells the thruth:cool:

[Ryo]

My buddy's wife won't sign. Not really anything he can do. His exam results lapsed and now he'll have to take the course again if somehow his wife softens.

All I can do is send prime venison steaks to buddy and his wife. Maybe she'll warm up.

hard to hold my tongue sometimes, let me tell you!

[wideopenthrottle]

how long does he have to be separated before he gets his hunting life back....I have a feeling if it was me I would be counting the days until I could re-apply as single

[Frango]

My buddy's wife won't sign. Not really anything he can do. His exam results lapsed and now he'll have to take the course again if somehow his wife softens.

All I can do is send prime venison steaks to buddy and his wife. Maybe she'll warm up.

hard to hold my tongue sometimes, let me tell you!Wow Is she anti hunting?anti gun or just likes to piss someone off? Perhaps a new wife is in order. Get one that has her own PAL. Or one that likes to share the pants. Very selfish or something.

[RiverOtter]

Is there no recourse for instances like this? I mean if her only reason is not liking guns, that should not affect him. If, on the other hand there is domestic issues, then that's a different case.

[Jelvis]

One thing the Federal government hate badly, and will cast you into oblivion for, and that is fraud.
-- Fraud against the government is serios as it get's
Maybe the guy who got it without girl friends name etc is, they share rent and that's it
Young couple defraud the insurance company's and landlords and welfare and what not.
-- They say we only share the rent don't get it on ok, besides that ain't your business.
People can twist anything. If they only share rent, the one on welfare still gets a cheque from BC. If their screwing each udder and lieing, then that's fraud. They are saying one thing to save money.
-- not right but it happens here in Kammy, all the time.
Jel -- Do not fraud the government, you will be centered out from then on when caught.
--

[elknut]

Thanks for the information Macnbro....This person that Im inquiring about is not a good person..I thought myself that he would be in big trouble if he knowingly lied on an application for a PAL..The declaration that you sign at the bottom of the form more or less informs you of that...The person in question I just might turn in to the RCMP by phoning Miramichi and telling them the story .I just renewed my PAL in Jan and my wife just got her new PAL the other day...I will go to the RCMP and inquire about this and see what they tell me ...Thanks everyone for your discussions and ideas..As far as my IP address goes I know that law enforcement could find me and I have nothing to fear for I have done no wrong ..Dont think they could force me to divulge someones name without just cause ...Dennis.

[Mauser98]

My buddy's wife won't sign. Not really anything he can do. His exam results lapsed and now he'll have to take the course again if somehow his wife softens.

All I can do is send prime venison steaks to buddy and his wife. Maybe she'll warm up.

hard to hold my tongue sometimes, let me tell you!

I wasn't aware that exam result could expire.

[David]

My buddy's wife won't sign. Not really anything he can do. His exam results lapsed and now he'll have to take the course again if somehow his wife softens.

All I can do is send prime venison steaks to buddy and his wife. Maybe she'll warm up.

hard to hold my tongue sometimes, let me tell you!

Ummm.... that doesn't smell right.

I went through this with my ex-wife about 5-10 years ago.

1) Your license expires, your exam results do not. It is a matter of re-applying for a license.
2) Your wife (or ex-wife) cannot deny you a license. They can refuse to sign their agreement, in which case the CFO would need to investigate. If the CFO determines there is a reason to deny (and it is entirely at their discretion - I was told "why don't you apply again when your divorce is final") then they deny, if there is no reason to deny then you still get the license.

^^^
As mentioned that was true 5-10 years ago, no clue if things have changed.

[Ryo]

You could very well be right. I only know this secondhand, from my friend.
My wonderful wife is all for steaks on the table and getting me out of the house in the fall.


Ummm.... that doesn't smell right.

I went through this with my ex-wife about 5-10 years ago.

1) Your license expires, your exam results do not. It is a matter of re-applying for a license.
2) Your wife (or ex-wife) cannot deny you a license. They can refuse to sign their agreement, in which case the CFO would need to investigate. If the CFO determines there is a reason to deny (and it is entirely at their discretion - I was told "why don't you apply again when your divorce is final") then they deny, if there is no reason to deny then you still get the license.

^^^
As mentioned that was true 5-10 years ago, no clue if things have changed.

[snipersights]

If the guy knows he probably won't get a pal because of mental or domestic issues I'd say best not to apply at all. My license got held up for 6 months because of my record which consisted of one or four arrests and some traffic violations. No charges and I never went before a judge. So just saying if you or your "friend" have any sort of a tainted past just bow hunt.

[RiverOtter]

Curious, what is one OR four arrests?

Is that like a "couple" beer, after you've drank all night, then get pulled over driving home?

I'm not judging, just pointing out that that's how it reads in your post. ;)

[scoutlt1]

As it stands, the "law is the law".

Don't "falsify" anything on the application if you aren't prepared for the consequences. Plain and simple.

[Jelvis]

-- I fought the law and the law won. No use thinking your fooling the Feds.
-- now a daze with cell phones and electronics, secret codes, hackers there's no place to hide
-- might as well do it right from now on the best yee can, don't have to stay the same.
-- some one calls you down, stand up for yourself.
-- someone talks big at you, leave.
-- never defraud the Feds, period!
-- The Feds only believe half your saying anyways, so tell the truth anyways.
Keeps you off the hook for someone's emotional outburst.
Jel Stand up in a street fight because no one is there to help you, start throwin and kickin or run.

[j270wsm]

My buddy's wife won't sign. Not really anything he can do. His exam results lapsed and now he'll have to take the course again if somehow his wife softens.

All I can do is send prime venison steaks to buddy and his wife. Maybe she'll warm up.

hard to hold my tongue sometimes, let me tell you!

just renewed my pal at the end of April and no one called or asked my common law gf if she had any issues with me renewing my pal. Gf got her pal last year and no one contacted me about it.

[Piperdown]

Hey, I'm a lawyer (not a criminal lawyer) but I had a quick read of the act. Don't lie on a PAL application. First off lying on a declaration is an offence and believe it or not can fetch prison time and certainly fines.

In this case you are looking at the firearms act which is a federal piece of legislation. Section 106 is what you want to look at. Punishments set out in section 109. I've copy pasted from the gov't page for your reference. Looks like you can get up to 5 years in the slammer



106 (1) Every person commits an offence who, for the purpose of procuring a licence, registration certificate or authorization for that person or any other person, knowingly makes a statement orally or in writing that is false or misleading or knowingly fails to disclose any information that is relevant to the application for the licence, registration certificate or authorization.


109 Every person who commits an offence under section 106, 107 or 108, who contravenes subsection 29(1) or who contravenes a regulation made under paragraph 117(d), (e), (f), (g), (i), (j), (l), (m) or (n) the contravention of which has been made an offence under paragraph 117(o)

(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Not trying to scare anyone, but why lie on a PAL application. Tell your friend of a friend of a cousin's buddy not to do it.




Hey i didn't know that HBC allowed your kind on here we may have to rewrite the rules :mrgreen:

[Squamch]

If the guy knows he probably won't get a pal because of mental or domestic issues I'd say best not to apply at all. My license got held up for 6 months because of my record which consisted of one or four arrests and some traffic violations. No charges and I never went before a judge. So just saying if you or your "friend" have any sort of a tainted past just bow hunt.

I know a guy with possession with the intent, and distribution charges within the last few years, no issues getting a PAL. His brother beat the shit out of someone 12 years ago and was denied.
It all depends on the nature of the charges. Non-violent don't seem to have much effect.

[Jelvis]

A weapon of any sort is hangin around us where ever we are. A screwdriver, a ball peen hammer a pen knife, a rock, a piece of pipe, a sharp stick, a piece of chain etc.
-- A vee hick kel drivinck down main street at high rate of speed iz a real danger so car license ?
-- if you are a person who obeys the laws here and loves mankind you wood be a safe person
-- if you are a person who has a problem with anger outbursts and you blow up and go nuts
-- two types of people
1. law abiding
2. lawless
Jel --- someone can hurt u badly with a kitchen knife for instance, it's the person not the object
---------------- the object is neutral -- the user of the object has their own reasons to use it.

[Gun Dog]

just renewed my pal at the end of April and no one called or asked my common law gf if she had any issues with me renewing my pal. Gf got her pal last year and no one contacted me about it.ditto. Did the online renewal and none of my references or gf was contacted. I've never been contacted when used as a reference.

My firearms safety course certificate never expires. It's kept in my safety deposit box because it's irreplaceable.

[Macnbro]

Hey i didn't know that HBC allowed your kind on here we may have to rewrite the rules :mrgreen:

Yea sorta wondered myself! lol. All good, I'm the friendly helpful kind.

[albravo2]

When I got mine they didn't call my ex-wife, my current wife, or any of my references.

I wrote on my application "Relations with my ex-wife are amicable. So far, I can say the same for the current wife."

[Iron Glove]

They called the Wife on my initial PAL, nobody called on the renewals.
They called my head gal at the Office when I got my RPAL and queried her including "Is your Boss in the Office and is he applying any pressure to you ??".
I asked her what she said and she asked for a raise first. :D

[caddisguy]

I have been called 4 times as a reference and they always ask if I am under duress. I wonder if anyone (even 1 single person) has actually being under duress when asked that.

[Glenny]

Sounds like someone doesn't want their wife to know about a firearms license, when I first got mine I was single, when I did my first renewal I had just gotten married and they wouldn't renew until they spoke to the new wife to make sure she was cool with it. I would imagine lying about it on an application probably isn't the best idea.

Imagine if she wasn't good with it? lol I would show her the door.