Sweish or Creedmoor ?

[bogtrotter]

A 6.5 mm will probably be my next rifle . The only question I have is what calibre ? I'm considering the two named above and plan to reload. What are the pros and cons of each regarding performance ? Regarding reloading, I have the impression that Swedish components are harder to find here in North America.

Thanks,

[BgBlkDg]

I had a Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine, Redfield mounts and Kollmorgen 2.75x scope some 50 years ago, chambered in 6.5x55 and it was a freakin' DRILL.

Before some "egspurt" beaks off about, "they never made that, it was a 6.5x54, blah, blah, blah", the piece was a Model 1961MCA and M-S made a LOT of different chamberings. In fact, I was just looking at one the very same IN 6.5 MS this morning, but, resisted.

So, while the Creedmore, has it's points, a strong rifle in 6.5 Swede, can be loaded to drive a 140NP at 2800 fps-mv. with groups that will "blow your mind". There is LOTS of components here in Canada and it is an outstanding beginners or anyone else's piece.

Look for an older, minty HVA-4100 so chambered and have Gary Flach, install a nice synthetic stock on it and you have a rifle for a lifetime.

[325]

I think either would be great. I shoot a Creedmoor, and it's fast become my favorite cartridge

[Seth]

6.5x47 Lapua should be mentioned in the same conversation as those other two.

[Ferenc]

The 6.5 swede is nice..... if ya don't like it.. you can change it to a 6.5 x 284.. as for the Creed it stays as is .. for now.

[jtred]

I'm sort of in the same place, I like the 6.5x55 because it's a classic European chambering and I like the old tried and true. I also like the 6.5 Creedmor because it's pretty cool and also pretty quick. Choices, choices, what to do? If I had no end of money I'd buy both and keep the one that shoots better. It is hard to justify for me though since I already have a 25-06, 7mm-08, and a 270 that all do basically the same job. I really like low recoiling effective cartridges. I still want a 6.5.

[BgBlkDg]

This is perfectly normal in the mind of a true "gunnut" so do not fret, most of us feel much this way.

I was on the Tradex site an hour since and they have several HVA 1600s in 6.5x55, these can be made into superb, light rifles and are not expensive.

Have a look at them, fine actions and easy to build on.

[Rotorwash]

There's the 260 rem as well. if your planning on reloading and you have 243 or 7-08 brass then your laughing. factory ammo is expensive tho.

I have a 65 cm as well. love both of them. both guns shoot tiny groups with little recoil with 123sst and h4350.

I dont own a 6.5x55 but its just a matter of time till I find the right one when i have the cash in my pocket.

The numbers are so close between 6.5 cm, the 260 and the 6.5x55. And really the 7-08 isnt much different ballisticly and probably kills a little better.

[Ltbullken]

A 6.5 Swede loaded in a modern rifle to modern pressures will outperform a Creed. Period! :razz:

[LYKTOHUNT]

I just sold a 260 Rem because I thought I might downsize, but could I really do that, No I couldnt so I bought a 6.5x55 Voere, nice old Walnut and blue rifle and find it very accurate with kind of a slow load 2650fps using 130 gr Accubonds, I tried some hotter loads up to and around 2800fps but got into too much pressure and groups were not all that great.

[Linksman313]

A 6.5 Swede loaded in a modern rifle to modern pressures will outperform a Creed. Period! :razz:

Afternoon Lt., just curious to find out more detail about your statement, I like the OP are in the market for a softer shooting more accurate and lighter rifle than the old trusty (but heavy) .308 and am looking at the 6.5 more and more daily. I know you shoot/hunt quite a bit, what have you found that makes the Swede superior to the Creed in an actual hunting situation?

[Rotorwash]

A 6.5 Swede loaded in a modern rifle to modern pressures will outperform a Creed. Period! :razz:

This is definitely true.

But now you are going above max loadings for published data. Not everyone is comfortable doing that... meow meows

also the swede is to long to fit a short action. not that a long action adds a bunch more weight, but if Im going to go long action Im probably going to step up to a 264 mag.

[325]

I really think worrying about performance differences between the CM, 260 and 6.5x55 is pointless. On game the differences would be completely unnoticed.

[Ltbullken]

Afternoon Lt., just curious to find out more detail about your statement, I like the OP are in the market for a softer shooting more accurate and lighter rifle than the old trusty (but heavy) .308 and am looking at the 6.5 more and more daily. I know you shoot/hunt quite a bit, what have you found that makes the Swede superior to the Creed in an actual hunting situation?

What would make the Swede superior is that if it is loaded to standard cartridge pressures (like a 308 for instance) in a modern firearm - which IMHO would be safe - the powder capacity would exceed what you could load in a Creed to the same pressures. A Swede holds 57.5 gr H20 and a Creed holds 52.5 gr H20; the Swede holds 5 grains more of powder! The fact you can put more powder in a Swede means you will/should get more MV or performance out of it than a Creed. Much Swede load data factors in old actions that were not built to hold up to what a current modern action would be able to sustain. So if you are firing an old 1900-turn of the century or older pattern action rifle, you would need to observe the load data. You would need to source modern 6.5 Swede data or work up, as they say, and observe for pressure signs.

I've shot a 260 Rem before. Killed an elk DRT with a 130 gr TSX at 120 paces. The 260 is close to a Swede but the Swede will exceed it if properly loaded.

[Gateholio]

Really comes down to what kind of rifle you want.

[Weatherby Fan]

Really comes down to what kind of rifle you want.

As Gate says above,

I did a quick search of rifles/calibers for sale online in the US at one of the more popular sites and the 6.5 Creedmoor has 1300 new bolt action rifles for sale and the 6.5x55 has 200 for sale........the 6.5 CM is getting up there with the 7mm-08 and 270 for sales, wouldn't surprise me if it surpasses most calibers in sales in years to come.

I would go with the 6.5 CM, great little cartridge.

[BgBlkDg]

So, is "popular" always best? Perhaps, a Ford 150 4x4 will outperform a Land Cruiser or MB G-Wagen?

The old Scandahoovian round is found in one of the best production rifles ever built, the legendary HVA series and EVERY smart Norske, knows this and buys these rifles frequently, ya?

If, I were young and could afford all the guns I NEED, I would soon have an early HVA 4100 steel BM built with a Benchmark, Lilja or other fine sts tube, in 8.5-1 twist. chambered 6.5x55 and run it with Lapua brass and 125 NPs at close on 2900 with less kick than most comparable rounds and a history of whacking BIG animals that only the equally venerable 7mm Mauser can equal.

[moosinaround]

I will own a 6.5x55 some day. Id like one in a husky, or a Tikka. The creedmore has my attention too, but I like the classic rounds, just like my 375 H&H. moosin

[RobTurbo]

I bought the wife a used Tikka stainless in 25-06 so we can be trendy and rebarrel to a Creed! Cannot wait to finish it up and get shooting.....Creed has my vote

[Weatherby Fan]

So, is "popular" always best? Perhaps, a Ford 150 4x4 will outperform a Land Cruiser or MB G-Wagen?

The old Scandahoovian round is found in one of the best production rifles ever built, the legendary HVA series and EVERY smart Norske, knows this and buys these rifles frequently, ya?

If, I were young and could afford all the guns I NEED, I would soon have an early HVA 4100 steel BM built with a Benchmark, Lilja or other fine sts tube, in 8.5-1 twist. chambered 6.5x55 and run it with Lapua brass and 125 NPs at close on 2900 with less kick than most comparable rounds and a history of whacking BIG animals that only the equally venerable 7mm Mauser can equal.

Of course not you old squarehead, I was just pointing out the obvious popularity and the fact that most rifle companies now chamber the 6.5 CM, so if your going to run down to the corner sports shop chances are they will have new rifles chambered in the 6.5CM and probably not in the 6.5x55.......but if your building a rifle it hardly matters than as your options are limitless.......but not everyone can or wants to build !

You do know that

[BgBlkDg]

DOUBLE squarehead, German-Norwegian, from my dad's side and some do build rifles, but, some don't......

Sassy young Viking!!! :)

[Weatherby Fan]

DOUBLE squarehead, German-Norwegian, from my dad's side and some do build rifles, but, some don't......

Sassy young Viking!!! :)

lol yes we are !
now I just can't decide weather to build a 338-06 or a 9.3x62 ???

[LYKTOHUNT]

lol yes we are !
now I just can't decide weather to build a 338-06 or a 9.3x62 ???
What about a Whelen, Is a 270 any good, I wonder what a good bear gun would be:biggrin:

[BgBlkDg]

Both!!!! But, have the reamer ground so that the case to the neck is exactly the same as the Nosler .280AI case to get the max. from it. I would build a custom rifle on a Montana action in that chambering if I were younger and not so broke.

Gary, HAS a very neat 9.3x62 for sale and it could be modded into a real gem. I might sell one of my ZG-47s, factory 9.3s, Micky Edge stock, etc, as I have far too many guns.

Food for thot, anyway.

[j270wsm]

The numbers are so close between 6.5 cm, the 260 and the 6.5x55. And really the 7-08 isnt much different ballisticly and probably kills a little better.

plaese explain how a 7-08 kills BETTER....... I dont understand how people make comments like this.

As others have said, the 6.5x55 is an extremely reliable, accurate caliber/cartridge combination with very mild recoil. My son shoots 140gr game kings, Yes it's loaded a little slow( 2600fps ) but it has great accuracy and penetration. Everything he has shot hasn't gone far and we've only recovered 2 perfectly mushroomed bullets( both shots were just over 300yds. I'm planning to build a 6.5 one day but haven't decided what case to use.

[todbartell]

pick a rifle you like the most. If it's chambered in both, go with the Creedmoor. It's going to become one of the staples of the shooting world in the next few decades

[todbartell]

Both cartridges loaded to 62,000psi chamber pressure. 24" barrels


Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor
Bullet : .264, 140, Nosler AccuBond 39457
Useable Case Capaci: 46.471 grain H2O = 3.017 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

14 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RL17 96.5 43.4 2.81 2881 100.0 62000 9751 1.178 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 101.3 44.8 2.90 2852 99.9 62000 10031 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL26 103.0 47.4 3.07 2850 100.0 53492 10881 1.250
Winchester 760 95.6 43.3 2.81 2846 99.6 62000 10031 1.190 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 95.6 43.3 2.81 2846 99.6 62000 10031 1.190 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 91.1 41.6 2.69 2802 100.0 62000 9110 1.196 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 86.0 41.0 2.66 2800 100.0 62000 9088 1.197 ! Near Maximum !




Cartridge : 6.5 x 55 +P
Bullet : .264, 140, Nosler AccuBond 39457
Useable Case Capaci: 53.090 grain H2O = 3.447 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.150 inch = 80.01 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

22 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RL26 101.2 53.2 3.45 3003 100.0 62000 12128 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828ssc 102.4 51.5 3.34 2960 98.8 62000 12191 1.170 ! Near Maximum !
AA MagPro 103.0 53.6 3.47 2931 96.9 59701 12580 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL22 103.0 51.0 3.30 2920 99.3 59955 12038 1.204 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL17 91.4 46.9 3.04 2914 100.0 62000 10790 1.188 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 103.0 54.9 3.56 2906 99.7 60017 11538 1.195 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL19 100.7 49.3 3.19 2904 99.4 62000 11527 1.185 ! Near Maximum !



Avg performance of Creedmoor, 140gr @ 2840 fps over 43.5grs powder. 6.5x55, 2934 fps over 51.5grs powder

[6.5x55mm]

A 6.5 Swede loaded in a modern rifle to modern pressures will outperform a Creed. Period! :razz: You got it. The swede will always outperform creed in a modern action. Creedmoor brass is harder to find for sure.

[Ride Red]

I load for my wifes Winchester Featherlight 6.5 x 55 and it's consistent to 300 meters(thats as far as shes shot). Nice light easy shooting gun, incredibly accurate and just plain fun to shoot.

[Ride Red]

I really think worrying about performance differences between the CM, 260 and 6.5x55 is pointless. On game the differences would be completely unnoticed.

Correct. Any gun in this range that you can afford, fits you and you enjoy shooting will serve you well.

[Rotorwash]

plaese explain how a 7-08 kills BETTER....... I dont understand how people make comments like this.
A 140 @ 2700 vs a 162 @2700 same velocity and slightly heavier bullets and slight diameter increase. Same sectional density and a slightly better g1 bc.

Why wouldn't it kill better?

I mean if we are going to split hairs let's grab some scissors
The 6.5x55 gives a max velocity of 2650 with 140s

[j270wsm]

From the time I was 18 until I was 30ish, I hunted with a 270win( 130gr tax @ 2960 ) Everything I pulled the trigger on died with 1-2shots max. One time I took a the old mans 300win mag(180gr Speer mag tips @ 3100fps )out and shot a bull elk at 57yds( lung shot ) then at 70yds( lung shot again ) then after walking towards the downed elk I had to put another one in the head around 50yds.

So does this mean the 270 kills better than a 300 win mag?? NO.......It doesn't matter if the animal dies instantly, or if it runs 20, 50 or even 200yds, dead is dead. One animal can't be more dead than another animal.

[Rotorwash]

Your in a huff about this?
"The numbers are so close between 6.5 cm, the 260 and the 6.5x55. And really the 7-08 isnt much different ballisticly and probably kills a little better."

Does this make you happy?
The numbers are so close between 6.5 cm, the 260 and the 6.5x55. And really the 7-08 isnt much different ballisticly and delivers more ft/lbs energy on target.

I was just saying that they are basically identical performers, just choose what you like.

[todbartell]

The 6.5x55 gives a max velocity of 2650 with 140s

maybe when loaded to SAAMI specs for the old Swedish Mauser rifles. In a modern rifle, it will push them to 2800-3000 fps depending on powder

[sheephunterab]

A 6.5 Swede loaded in a modern rifle to modern pressures will outperform a Creed. Period! :razz: You got it. The swede will always outperform creed in a modern action. Creedmoor brass is harder to find for sure.

Creedmoor brass and factory ammo is everywhere these days. This is a very popular cartridge right now.

[325]

Creedmoor brass and factory ammo is everywhere these days. This is a very popular cartridge right now.

Yes, I think even Lapua is making CM brass now

[j270wsm]

Your in a huff about this?
"The numbers are so close between 6.5 cm, the 260 and the 6.5x55. And really the 7-08 isnt much different ballisticly and probably kills a little better."

Does this make you happy?
The numbers are so close between 6.5 cm, the 260 and the 6.5x55. And really the 7-08 isnt much different ballisticly and delivers more ft/lbs energy on target.

I was just saying that they are basically identical performers, just choose what you like.

Im not in a huff about anything.....just hate when people make the classic " my gun/caliber kills better than yours" comment. It has to be the most ignorant comment I've heard any hunter say. Shot placement is the most important variable when it comes to bullet effectiveness.

[Rotorwash]

Ah well maybe I misinterpreted. I really didnt think anyone would take it my comment that way. I was only saying that those 3 calibers have very similar performance and that the 7-08 does as well. and you can do it with a bit heavier bullet with more terminal energy.

Thats all I was getting at.

I agree that shot placement is the most important factor. second would be a well constructed bullet.

[todbartell]

here is some chrony results :

6.5x55 Tikka 22.4” brl
143gr ELD-X @ 3.17”
RL26
Lapua brass
51.0grs ~ 2814

51.5grs ~ 2850

[Rotorwash]

those are some great numbers. What data are you using?

[bogtrotter]

Thanks to everyone. i probably will go for the tried and true but still a hard decision. Purchase willhave to wait as a new spotting scope has pushed onto the list.

[todbartell]

those are some great numbers. What data are you using?

that was a buddy's load and his rifle. He started low and worked up with his chrony

[6.5x55mm]

Grains of H2O

creedmore 52
260 53
6.5x55 57.9

[todbartell]

this is what I've measured :

260 Rem Model Seven
R-P ~ 55.0grs h20
F-C brass ~ 54.2grs h20

260 Savage 12 LRP
Lapua ~ 54.7grs H20

260 Rem, Defiance Machine/Pacnor
Lapua ~ 55.1grs h20

6.5x55
Lapua ~ 58.7grs h20 Tikka t3