Reason for low ungulate populations

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I had this one camera out almost 3 weeks.
I had four deer walk by.
I had more types of predators then I had deer.
2 black bear boars, two grizzly boars, one old and one young. two cougar and two wolves. Plus a couple yotes!

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/PICT4614_zpsjnwgzjas.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/skinnercreek/media/Trail%20camera/PICT4614_zpsjnwgzjas.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/PICT4421_zpsoqabnxxh.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/skinnercreek/media/Trail%20camera/PICT4421_zpsoqabnxxh.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/PICT1659_zpsefnuertc.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/skinnercreek/media/Trail%20camera/PICT1659_zpsefnuertc.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/PICT4780_zpsjcwbyk8v.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/skinnercreek/media/Trail%20camera/PICT4780_zpsjcwbyk8v.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/PICT4173_zpsatnt8pez.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/skinnercreek/media/Trail%20camera/PICT4173_zpsatnt8pez.jpg.html)

[guest]

Wow terrific photos CHB...... Thanks for the share.

more and more a bigger piece if the puzzle. Get out there and wack some press folks.

[Ourea]

Good pics Chicoltin HB, thanks for the share.
And welcome to the reality that is the pred issue in some areas of BC.
It is troubling and concerning when you consistently get samplings of diverse preds that seem to be disproportional to prey in a given area.

I am not jumping to conclusions but the number of cats and BB I get on cam is nuts.
I recently posted a video here with a pack of 5 cougars rolling by.

[charlie_horse]

The big grizz looks like it means business. awesome pics thanks

[Rattler]

Have to wonder what all these predators are eating with low ungulate numbers? Hope to put the hurt on a black bear this weekend....

[HarryToolips]

Awesome pics CHB...my take on it is yes we need to do our part to take out some preds, as well as support the other drivers of ungulate populations of course such as habitat etc...that being said, you would think that at some point soon, with some of these areas becoming predator pits, that the number of preds will come crashing down...here's to hoping...

[scotty30-06]

I heard cougar meat is pretty good eating....if anyone knows please chime in....when hunting I like hunting for meat...other then coyote and other varmit I don't like pulling the trigger unless there is some sort of meat reward lol...I know bear is good just wondering about cougar

[two-feet]

wow, that there is a smorgasbord of killers. Very cool pics

[Ourea]

Have to wonder what all these predators are eating with low ungulate numbers? Hope to put the hurt on a black bear this weekend....

Agree 100%.

Some thoughts....
A few of my better big WT buck areas have low to moderate WT numbers yet they seem to have a lot of preds.
It may not be the number of deer that are in the area but their huntability that is drawing in cats and bears.....and now wolves have recently moved in (and the endless stream of coyotes)

Perhaps it is the changing landscape......my WT areas are being logged extensively.
Is this making these locations more efficient hunting grounds for tooth and claw competitors thus the increased traffic?
Some of the things that run thru my head, when I see areas I know well, that have considerable ebbs and flows in numbers and balance......what are the drivers?

My numerous cams give me a good account of what animals are in any given area I hunt.

What I don't know and only can speculate on is why the swings...what's the cause, the drivers.
We mostly speculate.

[caddisguy]

Wow those are some insane pics!! You sure there wasn't a huge bait pile somewhere around the cam?! Even still that's a lot of preds. Wow again especially at the first grizz and that garfield. Black bear looks like 80 lbs of burgers to me though!!

[Rattler]

Agree 100%.

Some thoughts....
A few of my better big WT buck areas have low to moderate WT numbers yet they seem to have a lot of preds.
It may not be the number of deer that are in the area but their huntability that is drawing in cats and bears.....and now wolves have recently moved in (and the endless stream of coyotes)

Perhaps it is the changing landscape......my WT areas are being logged extensively.
Is this making these locations more efficient hunting grounds for tooth and claw competitors thus the increased traffic?
Some of the things that run thru my head, when I see areas I know well, that have considerable ebbs and flows in numbers and balance......what are the drivers?

My numerous cams give me a good account of what animals are in any given area I hunt.

What I don't know and only can speculate on is why the swings...what's the cause, the drivers.
We mostly speculate.

There is no question in my mind that logging, particularly roads has increased predator movement. Just look at that Banff wolf that travelled 500kms in two weeks.

Here in the WK we have seen heavy predator numbers over the past several years. We are seeing less and less deer, moose and elk but yet the pred numbers haven't changed much? It just has to but knowing how far wolves will go leaves me to wonder...

[wideopenthrottle]

great pics...all preds get arond faster and further on roads that is a forsure..

[Fisher-Dude]

I heard cougar meat is pretty good eating....if anyone knows please chime in....when hunting I like hunting for meat...other then coyote and other varmit I don't like pulling the trigger unless there is some sort of meat reward lol...I know bear is good just wondering about cougar

It's delicious.

My fave is using it in a sweet'n'sour dish, or a stir fry.

You can make great hams with the hinds.

Regular cuts like steaks and roasts should be marinated or done in a slow cooker, as they are a muscular animal that requires time to ensure it's tender.

[Gateholio]

A cougar crossed the road in front of me yesterday at about noon. 25 years driving the same road and it's the first time I've seen one in the road in daylight.

[Dash]

Wow great pictures! That big grizzly looks incredibly intimidating..lol

[J_T]

Awesome pics CHB...my take on it is yes we need to do our part to take out some preds, as well as support the other drivers of ungulate populations of course such as habitat etc...that being said, you would think that at some point soon, with some of these areas becoming predator pits, that the number of preds will come crashing down...here's to hoping...As you know I'm one that has suggested in the EK ungulate populations are low. No doubt about it. I was talking to a friend who is responsible for the airborn removal of wolves and he suggested, based in collar data and their observations the wolf population is starting to crash.

[Spy]

As you know I'm one that has suggested in the EK ungulate populations are low. No doubt about it. I was talking to a friend who is responsible for the airborn removal of wolves and he suggested, based in collar data and their observations the wolf population is starting to crash.
That's good news, thanks for the update.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Logging in the Chilcotin I believe is the biggest factor contributing to the bear boom. It was only 30 years ago when there was hardly a grizzly around very few were ever seen. Now you see them almost daily out my way.
Bears don't live in mature pine forests. With logging brings reseeding of the roads and landings providing ample food for spring and summer food sources. Unfortunately the fawns and calves take a huge hit come spring time.

[Caribou_lou]

Have to wonder what all these predators are eating with low ungulate numbers? Hope to put the hurt on a black bear this weekend....

I think it's safe to say all preds are opportunists. They will eat veggies and small game until the opportunity arrives for a larger high protein meal.

[Brez]

It's delicious.

My fave is using it in a sweet'n'sour dish, or a stir fry.

You can make great hams with the hinds.

Regular cuts like steaks and roasts should be marinated or done in a slow cooker, as they are a muscular animal that requires time to ensure it's tender.
X2. One of my favorites. Makes pretty darned good sausage too! Honey/garlic

[tomahawk]

Logging in the Chilcotin I believe is the biggest factor contributing to the bear boom. It was only 30 years ago when there was hardly a grizzly around very few were ever seen. Now you see them almost daily out my way.
Bears don't live in mature pine forests. With logging brings reseeding of the roads and landings providing ample food for spring and summer food sources. Unfortunately the fawns and calves take a huge hit come spring time.

Logging and new road development provides all animals better food sources, both the predators and prey!! Thanks for the pictures and a hunting related post CHB!! Your posts are always interesting and enjoyable!

[mpotzold]

Wow great pictures! That big grizzly looks incredibly intimidating..lol

YOU SAID IT!

Great thread-kind of info we need!
Enlarged photo-This is even more intimidating! Beautiful background scenery.







http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/PICT4780_zpsjcwbyk8v.jpg%7Eoriginal

[scotty30-06]

Well....now that I know that cougar meat is good to eat...hmmm I can see a cougar tag in my future

[Surrey Boy]

How viable is cougar hunting without hounds?

[Mosin]

How viable is cougar hunting without hounds?

I was wondering the same thing. Hopefully some experienced hunter can chime in.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

You can track hunt just like a hound guy would. Get on his trail and start following.I know several guys who have done it effectively. I suppose calling them once you freshen up the track would work as well

[rocksteady]

Playing devils advocate here....

how many ungulates do hunters kill compared compared to predators???

vehicles?

trains?

[scotty30-06]

I am pretty sure you can bait them aswell...would be tough keeping the Bears away....i would imagine tracking on snow would be your best bet....but the pred Ecallers with the wiggling rabbit or bird above it has worked aswell...I imagine that nothing kills more blacktail the cougars....other areas I assume are different but for blacktails I think the big kitty's are the biggest problem

[scotty30-06]

I don't think hunter kills come close to pred kills...Road kill probably do a fair number....but if you look at all the meat eaters out there (human not included) now take that number and poundage of meat they eat ALL year long....i don't think hunters numbers would even compair

[boxhitch]

How viable is cougar hunting without hounds?Likely not, but there is always the chance encounters while out for a walk with a rifle in hand, so better to have than to wish for one.
That is if one is serious about whacking a coug if given the chance. After all its just another $30 tag , gulp

[scotty30-06]

Lol what's 30 bucks....could be a once in a lifetime experience.(and no I'm not rich but hell it costs more to take me and the wife to the movies)

[boxhitch]

You can track hunt just like a hound guy would. Get on his trail and start following.I know several guys who have done it effectively. I suppose calling them once you freshen up the track would work as wellWhat are chances a cat will come back on its own trail to a pred call? Would it be better to circle and set-up with the wind maybe?
Have tried twice on a fresh track in fresh snow, and never felt I was getting closer, until the stride length changed to getting-out-of-trouble length, then I quit. Better for follow further?

[boxhitch]

Lol what's 30 bucks....could be a once in a lifetime experience.(and no I'm not rich but hell it costs more to take me and the wife to the movies)Carried a tag for about 10 years after my first chance encounter, 25 years later have not had another.

But getting closer........, last year had a coug pic on a trail cam within 30 minutes of setting it up.

[scotty30-06]

Fair enough but did you put any focus into it or just carried the tag....guess comes down to what ya want....an area I'm hunting for blacktails is thick with cougar sign...fresh tracks and scat every single time I go up to that spot

[Weatherby Fan]

How viable is cougar hunting without hounds?

When I was 18 or so I heard there was lots of cougars on Texada Island so I phoned the C.O. in the area about hunting them there.........yeh theres Cougars there he says........how you going to hunt them ? do you have hounds he asks......ahh no sir I don't have hounds.......WELL YOU MIDAS WELL BE HUNTIN UNICORNS THEN......and he hung up.........I still laugh everytime I think of his comment !

[scotty30-06]

You would have to do your homework that's for sure....bait and cams...and dosnt their season go on longer then deer season....just a thought...another reason to stay in the bush lol

[Ferenc]

Is this private land.... looks like some hayfield in the background.
Amazing pics of a party pac of preds for sure !

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Is this private land.... looks like some hayfield in the background.
Amazing pics of a party pac of preds for sure !

Crown land just outside private land.

[scotty30-06]

Those are the best pockets sometimes.....is there many livestock around that private land....wouldnt want to imagine trying to raise cattle with a predator on slot like that

[Ourea]

This is becoming a more common scene in the Okanagan.
This turns out to be a group of five


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLDqpDarBSc

[Ourea]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCZ3C0GiQpU

[Linksman313]

Those are the best pockets sometimes.....is there many livestock around that private land....wouldnt want to imagine trying to raise cattle with a predator on slot like that

Very good question scotty , have thought the same and have been approaching Farmers and Horse folk for years trying to convince them the predator issue is growing and am willing and able to help them. Still the same stonewall response.

[Rhyno]

That first grizz looks like a tank! Good photo from the t cam.

[Ourea]

Pretty much everyone knows habitat is the key driver for wildlife.
Logging increases grass and forb production, that is also a given.
Good for ungulates and bears from a forage perspective.

Cougars, coyotes and wolves don't order off the same menu as ungulates however.
So, with the declining deer, moose and elk populations (some elk herds) why the perceived/purported increase in cats and dogs?
Flies in the face of logic...at least from our train of thinking.

The extensive changes we have made on the landscape, from resource extraction and development, has to be a major factor in the big shift in pred/prey relationships and numbers.


This is yet another reason why I am a huge supporter of the wildlife funding model that has been tabled and continues to be championed.
Science needs to be used more and more so a greater understanding of the accelerating changes in wildlife dynamics are better understood and can be addressed.
That will never happen without funding.

Back to Chilcotin Hillbilly, great pics chief.

[GoatGuy]

What are chances a cat will come back on its own trail to a pred call? Would it be better to circle and set-up with the wind maybe?
Have tried twice on a fresh track in fresh snow, and never felt I was getting closer, until the stride length changed to getting-out-of-trouble length, then I quit. Better for follow further?


Have q buddy who has treed a couple by following tracks.

[wideopenthrottle]

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/cougar-commute-big-cats-caught-strolling-through-skytrain-station-with-video
you guys saw this right...two cougars strolling through the skytrain station at 415 am a few weeks ago...the new one by the turnoff to anmore...a few years ago i spotted a good sized bl bear down on the tracks as we were driving...

[mpotzold]

Read that 1 cougar may kill up to 50 deer(probably 1/2 of that on the average) a year & can live for 12+ years in the wild. So do the math.

More on cougar-the stealthy, fast, strong & efficient hunter.

http://mountainlion.org/CAL_ch4.asp

[tigrr]

I have seen 7 cougars since 1990. lots of grizzly bears at Hudson's Hope dump. One issue around here is the wolves killing off the black bears right in the den. One valley went from 30 black bears to 5 in 2 years. 7 wolves were reduced to 2 by trappers. Year long hunters are shooting the ungulates now.
Enjoy it while it lasts.

[HarryToolips]

I don't think hunter kills come close to pred kills...Road kill probably do a fair number....but if you look at all the meat eaters out there (human not included) now take that number and poundage of meat they eat ALL year long....i don't think hunters numbers would even compair
Exactly...and considering that most ungulates harvested (non FN) by hunters are male, and ratios don't dip below MOE objectives, can't even compare the two since preds harvest all classes of ungulates, but especially the young which greatly impacts that species recruitment..

[HarryToolips]

As you know I'm one that has suggested in the EK ungulate populations are low. No doubt about it. I was talking to a friend who is responsible for the airborn removal of wolves and he suggested, based in collar data and their observations the wolf population is starting to crash.
God I hope so!

[scotty30-06]

Just goes to show why we need to do our part as hunters and put some preds down every year...think if you manage to take 2 bears and you and a buddy manage to bag 2 cougars....we are talking hundreds of deer saved in one year...multiple that by a lot of hunters well it would be a damn good start.

[HarryToolips]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCZ3C0GiQpU
A group of 5 cougars that's nuts! God how many deer does that group eat...

[scotty30-06]

Wow man I would shit myself of I was standing there...a North American pride of lions

[Ourea]

I have numerous cam sets that have recorded cats with twins and triplets.
Life is good if momma can sustain 2 and even 3 kits into their second year.

They are not living on granola.

Family units that can be as large as 5 to 6 cats will be hard on deer.
I am sure their stalking to kill ratios go up dramatically once the kits get into their second yr before the family unit dissolves.

[Fisher-Dude]

Just goes to show why we need to do our part as hunters and put some preds down every year...think if you manage to take 2 bears and you and a buddy manage to bag 2 cougars....we are talking hundreds of deer saved in one year...multiple that by a lot of hunters well it would be a damn good start.

It's not really a linear relationship with pred control.

You have to consider predator infill (predators are mobile and will quickly claim unoccupied territories) as well as increased litter survival as competition for food sources decreases.

Also, cougars are an intensively managed species in BC. If harvest increases outside the boundaries of the "safe zone" in the population matrix tools, the seasons will be rapidly shortened to keep harvest within safe levels, especially harvest of females which is the ultimate driver of populations.

[scotty30-06]

Yea fair enough...almost feels like you'll never get a leg up on them lol

[Fisher-Dude]

Yea fair enough...almost feels like you'll never get a leg up on them lol

In days gone by, cats tended to cycle up and down with the mule deer population.

Now that we have whitetails in traditional muley areas, when the mule deer populations go down, cats will supplement their diets more with whitetails, and the perfect storm of declining mule deer and maintained high cats can be a big problem for mulies.

Really good study on this here: http://www.sgrc.selkirk.ca/bioatlas/pdf/Cougar_Predation_and_Population_Growth.pdf

[Cordillera]

Predators are on the rise over the past twenty years because we don't kill as many of them.... It was not so long ago that every farmer had a rifle in his truck and killed a wolf or bear or...when encountered. And we had garbage dumps in every logging camp that attracted Grizzlies that then had to be killed. In general there was a pile of incidental predator killing going on.

And not long before that (up to the 80s or even the 90s) we had poison in many landscapes that pretty much wiped predators out. And if I'm not mistaken there were more people with cougar dogs who kept them to smaller populations.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Predators are on the rise over the past twenty years because we don't kill as many of them.... It was not so long ago that every farmer had a rifle in his truck and killed a wolf or bear or...when encountered. And we had garbage dumps in every logging camp that attracted Grizzlies that then had to be killed. In general there was a pile of incidental predator killing going on.

And not long before that (up to the 80s or even the 90s) we had poison in many landscapes that pretty much wiped predators out. And if I'm not mistaken there were more people with cougar dogs who kept them to smaller populations.


Your right on all counts

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Picked up another card today , two miles from the first one. Same results. The trail camera times and dates are little off.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/STC_0063_zps91nf9pqc.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/skinnercreek/media/Trail%20camera/STC_0063_zps91nf9pqc.jpg.html)
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/STC_0046_zpswsrnsjqt.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/skinnercreek/media/Trail%20camera/STC_0046_zpswsrnsjqt.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/STC_0053_zpssswq7es7.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/skinnercreek/media/Trail%20camera/STC_0053_zpssswq7es7.jpg.html)
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/STC_0029_zpscwqcbfob.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/skinnercreek/media/Trail%20camera/STC_0029_zpscwqcbfob.jpg.html)


Ungulate count , four deer and one moose, chased off by a grizz

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/STC_0057_zpsg3usixmz.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/skinnercreek/media/Trail%20camera/STC_0057_zpsg3usixmz.jpg.html)

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Here is the grizz 5 minutes after the moose came through.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/STC_0058_zpslmn8nssc.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/skinnercreek/media/Trail%20camera/STC_0058_zpslmn8nssc.jpg.html)

[HarryToolips]

Great pics there CHB........

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Interesting picture of this boar marking his territory.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/STC_0049_zpsfafhejwb.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/skinnercreek/media/Trail%20camera/STC_0049_zpsfafhejwb.jpg.html)

[guest]

Magnificent share CHB!

Very cool pics .......

goes to show the amount of meat eaters with small areas ........and A huge part of any management plan ......

[ROY-alty33]

Unbelievable hillbilly.....that's a ton of competition in a few short miles. Must be some smart moose to survive that gauntlet of meat eaters everyday. Either that of just passing through, QUICKLY!!!

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Unbelievable hillbilly.....that's a ton of competition in a few short miles. Must be some smart moose to survive that gauntlet of meat eaters everyday. Either that of just passing through, QUICKLY!!!

Not many calves make it through this gauntlet. Our calf survival rate is next to nothing along this corridor. As you can see there are more grizz then black bears.

[Piperdown]

Was at the cabin in 6-04 for a week, saw 32 different bears, 2 sows had triplets one a pair and numerous others with just 1. Also saw the most cow moose at this time of year than i have seen in a few years, hardly any wolf sign like they have moved on. CO shot a sow grizz and her 2 cubs as she was teaching them how good the ranchers sheep were.

[Rattler]

Wow CHB, you have a predator problem big time. That Grizz in your last pic is a monster! I suspect many areas in BC are like this. Pictures of all these grizzlies is why I'm arguing their populations are too high. There is no question that the grizzly hunt is sustainable. If this hunt ends then their populations will continue to grow, ungulate populations will decline, human conflicts will increase and sadly CO's will be shooting more...

[Bugle M In]

I am with you on this....the changing landscape due to logging is probably the biggest factor...
and yes, it allows the preds to be more efficient.
Hard for a deer to get away when they fall thru the snow when levels are high, due to no old growth around anymore.
Or, they have to move elsewhere....just my thoughts.



Agree 100%.

Some thoughts....
A few of my better big WT buck areas have low to moderate WT numbers yet they seem to have a lot of preds.
It may not be the number of deer that are in the area but their huntability that is drawing in cats and bears.....and now wolves have recently moved in (and the endless stream of coyotes)

Perhaps it is the changing landscape......my WT areas are being logged extensively.
Is this making these locations more efficient hunting grounds for tooth and claw competitors thus the increased traffic?
Some of the things that run thru my head, when I see areas I know well, that have considerable ebbs and flows in numbers and balance......what are the drivers?

My numerous cams give me a good account of what animals are in any given area I hunt.

What I don't know and only can speculate on is why the swings...what's the cause, the drivers.
We mostly speculate.

[markomoose]

Crazy good pics CHB.They gotta let out more Grizz LEH for that area.Seen a sow grizz with two cubs along the lake not that long ago.

[Kootenaykid85]

great 8 foot bear

[j270wsm]

The very first grizz pic isn't a big bear, ears are on top of the head, no crease down the fore head and it still has long hair and a lot of blonde colouring. The last grizz pic( big dark bear ) is a big bear. You can see the crease down he fore head, ears are more towards the outside of the head and it's got short dark hide, all characteristics of a big older bear.

All around great pics

[HarryToolips]

Interesting picture of this boar marking his territory.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/STC_0049_zpsfafhejwb.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/skinnercreek/media/Trail%20camera/STC_0049_zpsfafhejwb.jpg.html)
Incredible pic.........

[markomoose]

I hate to say it Doug but you live in a region with a predator issue.On the other end its VERY GOOD for business.:wink:

[scotty30-06]

Man....still to hunt it know there's that many preds....these pics would be going through your head constantly knowing your camped close to those cams lol...hopefully not in a tent

[markt308]

unbelievable pictures. that first on of the grizz caught me off guard

[wideopenthrottle]

the 4th one with the grizz staring at the camera almost made me reach beside me for a rifle....heheheh

[hawkdog]

Exactly...and considering that most ungulates harvested (non FN) by hunters are male, and ratios don't dip below MOE objectives, can't even compare the two since preds harvest all classes of ungulates, but especially the young which greatly impacts that species recruitment..

hunters harvest animals in their prime for the most part, whereas predators largely take down the old and sick - as well as young.
Hunters also have a serious advantage with optics and the ability to reach out to a 1000m make a kill, not many other predators out there have that range.
if you were to add up hunting, road kill, train kill, and habitat destruction I would think humans win hands down.

[hawkdog]

Nice pictures by the way! makes me want to get my cam out!!

[chilcotin hillbilly]

hunters harvest animals in their prime for the most part, whereas predators largely take down the old and sick - as well as young.
Hunters also have a serious advantage with optics and the ability to reach out to a 1000m make a kill, not many other predators out there have that range.
if you were to add up hunting, road kill, train kill, and habitat destruction I would think humans win hands down.

You are wrong on the weak and old theory. that has been proven time and time again.

[HarryToolips]

hunters harvest animals in their prime for the most part, whereas predators largely take down the old and sick - as well as young.
Hunters also have a serious advantage with optics and the ability to reach out to a 1000m make a kill, not many other predators out there have that range.
if you were to add up hunting, road kill, train kill, and habitat destruction I would think humans win hands down.
I agree with the road kill etc and the biggest being habitat destruction, but key word being hunters...and sure optics etc are great, but the majority of kills according to what I've read, are still within 100 yards...

[luckofthedraw]

Great pics. Thanks for sharing.

[srupp]

Great photos Doug...sitting there patiently with your Kodak camera..or maybe kodiac"..lol
Really missed being out there this year...and yes folks there really are that many predators out there..no wonder the unglazed are struggling.
Thanks Doug
Steven

[DeepJeep]

This pic is epic and also my desktop background...thanks Chilcotin Hillybilly
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm194/skinnercreek/Trail%20camera/PICT4780_zpsjcwbyk8v.jpg

[HappyJack]

hunters harvest animals in their prime for the most part, whereas predators largely take down the old and sick - as well as young.
Hunters also have a serious advantage with optics and the ability to reach out to a 1000m make a kill, not many other predators out there have that range.
if you were to add up hunting, road kill, train kill, and habitat destruction I would think humans win hands down.

Predators take down what ever they can, taking down the old and sick is an urban myth. Predators have to eat 365 days per year, and they harvest wastefully and totally unregulated all year round for as long as they breathe...humans can't compete with them for efficiency of killing game animals.

[Coaster2]

Just stumbled on this thread. Epic pictures Chilcotin Hillbilly. Hoping to avoid that G Bear on my moose trip up there this year, he looks way to political! haha

[Rob Chipman]

^^^^ Yeah! Just saw the bump. They are great pics, especially the bear. Cougar's a close second.

[srupp]

The brown g bear hugging the tree..
Look at the muscle crease on the face..
The small ears set on the side
The nose is short.
The nose is big coffee can round
The arms are not tapered. .elbow above, below..stovepipe..
No wrist leg comes straight out side of paws..no taper, no wrist..
The color of the bigger bears..older bears does tend to get darker
Coat like a worn out fur jacket. .
Ruppinsky belly..
Only item not shown is width of skull..
Srupp

[srupp]

The brown g bear hugging the tree..
Look at the muscle crease on the face..
The small ears set on the side
The nose is short.
The nose is big coffee can round
The arms are not tapered. .elbow above, below..stovepipe..
No wrist leg comes straight out side of paws..no taper, no wrist..
The color of the bigger bears..older bears does tend to get darker
Coat like a worn out fur jacket. .
Ruppinsky belly..
Only item not shown is width of skull..
Notice the presence of a neck...male
Srupp

[chuckerb]

Cougar meat is excellent , tastes between chicken and pork use to hunt them with my dogs on the north end of the island.

[Boner]

Great photos. Thanks for sharing!

You have a wicked location for your camera.

[mpotzold]

BC declining moose numbers! Who would have thought!:shock:


Proof-
Bigfoot Moose-Kill:(
http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2013/07/holy-balls-bigfoot-moose-kill.html


Today-Tracker takes B.C. government to court to prove Bigfoot exists:p
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/tracker-takes-b-c-government-to-court-to-prove-bigfoot-exists-1.4052170