George Heyman NDP Candidate "Knocking at my Door"

[Bugle M In]

So, just had George Heyman of the NDP here.
Obviously, he asked what my concerns were, and which way I may be voting etc.

Told him a big concern is what we have been talking about on this forum over the past few years.
He said that he was on the Enviroment side of the NDP party (I guess that means he would be a
potential "environment minister" pick if the NDP won???)

Anyways, he said he would want all money from hunting licenses to go back into the environment etc.
He said he was "NOT" against "wolf culls", although that may not make him well liked by many voters, which we could all understand if we were trying to be elected.
Also said that they would like to give us, the resident hunters, back the allocations that we lost to the
GOABC.

That the only thing they (NDP) didn't support was "trophy grizz hunting", but that they do support
"hunting for food".
Honestly, I never really was for killing something unless you "packed it out".
(meaning, a bear just for the rug, has never really interested me, unless, it was to manage a predator control issue in areas where it is needed)

So...what to think....am I being "bullshitted"???
Sounds like he knew some stuff and the issues......(although he had "no knowledge" of this hunting forum.....which makes me wonder "how much of a voice do BC Resident Hunters have??)

Oh, one last thing, he said he would support a "Oil Refinery" here in the province.
Something I personally think we need in BC (actually in a few places), rather then shipping it "Raw".

So...thoughts???....let it rip!

[Buck]

Well he may have some integrity unlike the current bunch who have neither honor or integrity.At the very least you kick him out in 4 years if he is bullshitting.

[tuner]

When he says he's from "the environment side of the NDP party" he means he opposes any and all economic developments related to natural resources extraction, it's a round about way of saying I'm philosophically aligned
with David Suzuki, Sierra Club, and the raincoast foundation.

[Rackmastr]

Are you okay with shooting a grizz and having to leave the hide, skull, etc in the bush and only take the meat???

This is Heymans vision and sure seems like the NDP can't get their heads on straight when it comes to exactly what they want to shut down the "trophy" hunt. Next is wolves? Sheep? Elk? We just leave everything in the bush except the meat?

[Wild one]

Just look into how good the NDP has been for the economy in the past in any prov they have been in
power if you need a present example look at Alberta

[Island Idiots]

FYI- John Horgan knows this site exists. And no offense but didn't the Alberta NDP inherit a bankrupt province when they were elected?

[Rackmastr]

FYI- John Horgan knows this site exists. And no offense but didn't the Alberta NDP inherit a bankrupt province when they were elected?

He sure isn't doing a good job of addressing his various party lines and seems to be playing both sides whichever suits him better that day. If he knows the site exists (of course he would lol) he sure doesn't seem to care to clarify the statements made amongst his own party....

[Bugle M In]

OKay....
spoke with him briefly again.
He was actually a logger in BC.
Born in Vancouver, lived in Terrace, then moved back down to Vancouver.
He does not hut himself, but has friends who do....and he enjoys eating "wild game".
So, he is saying to me that he supports hunting.

As for "environmental side".....what I meant is....

He is geared towards the environmental aspects of the NDP Party...if I understand him correct.
Meaning, he is not a "greenpeacer" type...against hunters etc.

He actually would like to see more money for CO's as well.

[Bugle M In]

Are you okay with shooting a grizz and having to leave the hide, skull, etc in the bush and only take the meat???

This is Heymans vision and sure seems like the NDP can't get their heads on straight when it comes to exactly what they want to shut down the "trophy" hunt. Next is wolves? Sheep? Elk? We just leave everything in the bush except the meat?

IT's just like being on a "strata council" I suppose.
You have 1 opinion like this, and 1 opinion like that.
All I know is his opinion seems to be that he is for hunting...not against it.
But another in the party might be completely against hunting...
Guess that happens in every political party.
I can only vote for the ones in my area...and I will vote who I agree with the most, or is closest inline to my beliefs.

Nothing wrong with bringing hide and skull IMO.
I bring the rack out too on an Elk.
To me, that part is the "photograph of the memory and experience" when I pursued something and obtained success.

[Bugle M In]

He sure isn't doing a good job of addressing his various party lines and seems to be playing both sides whichever suits him better that day. If he knows the site exists (of course he would lol) he sure doesn't seem to care to clarify the statements made amongst his own party....

I told Heyman about the site...who knows....maybe someone/s from the political parties may "chime in"....or not....

[Wild one]

FYI- John Horgan knows this site exists. And no offense but didn't the Alberta NDP inherit a bankrupt province when they were elected?

Boom and bust oil cycle is nothing new. The issue with NDP in Alberta was kicking residents well they were down with taxes raising the cost of living during lean times. Did a good job pushing companies out as well

basicly they have milked $ out everyone and done nothing to create jobs

I know lots of people in Alberta and they are not happy lol

[Bugle M In]

Just look into how good the NDP has been for the economy in the past in any prov they have been in
power if you need a present example look at Alberta

Personally...all parties "piss away" our money.
Every time I go over a bridge...I don't feel like I am getting any richer....you??
So, to me...I don't care as much about deficits anymore.....they all screw it up in their own ways....looks at the price
of a house...and how long did it take them to make a change....way too late!
That financially is a bigger impact on me, my children right now...

Anyways...my OP was "not" about all of the political aspects ( after all...this is a Hunting Forum!)
My questions were based on the "Hunting/Environmental" end of things, as that is my concern for me.
If yours is deficit, so be it....but not sure if that pertains to a "Hunting Forum"

I only want to discuss what parties are willing to "help hunters and the wildlife"...and whos is being truthful.
The other issues are for a political forum...IMO.

[Norwestalta]

Boom and bust oil cycle is nothing new. The issue with NDP in Alberta was kicking residents well they were down with taxes raising the cost of living during lean times. Did a good job pushing companies out as well

basicly they have milked $ out everyone and done nothing to create jobs

I know lots of people in Alberta and they are not happy lol

yep don't do what we did. We're not in a good situation here at all.

[BgBlkDg]

Heyman, was the boss of the BCGEU, a powerful and greedy BC public sector union, he then resigned and became the honcho of the foreign SIERRA CLUB, a hardcore outfit associated with that little prick, Suzuki. So, as with AH Weaver, quite frankly, I DO NOT trust or believe him.

I also just hate the NDP and despise the Lieberals, might sit this one out........ :(

[Norwestalta]

Personally...all parties "piss away" our money.
Every time I go over a bridge...I don't feel like I am getting any richer....you??
So, to me...I don't care as much about deficits anymore.....they all screw it up in their own ways....looks at the price
of a house...and how long did it take them to make a change....way too late!
That financially is a bigger impact on me, my children right now...

Anyways...my OP was "not" about all of the political aspects ( after all...this is a Hunting Forum!)
My questions were based on the "Hunting/Environmental" end of things, as that is my concern for me.
If yours is deficit, so be it....but not sure if that pertains to a "Hunting Forum"

I only want to discuss what parties are willing to "help hunters and the wildlife"...and whos is being truthful.
The other issues are for a political forum...IMO.

I suppose you'd want to figure out the percentage of hunters belonging to each party, if it's possible.

[Rackmastr]

IT's just like being on a "strata council" I suppose.
You have 1 opinion like this, and 1 opinion like that.
All I know is his opinion seems to be that he is for hunting...not against it.
But another in the party might be completely against hunting...
Guess that happens in every political party.
I can only vote for the ones in my area...and I will vote who I agree with the most, or is closest inline to my beliefs.

Nothing wrong with bringing hide and skull IMO.
I bring the rack out too on an Elk.
To me, that part is the "photograph of the memory and experience" when I pursued something and obtained success.

Heymans plan is to make sure that you ARE NOT ALLOWED to take the hide, the skull, etc. Only the meat. What does that say about what he thinks about hunting other species and where exactly does that end when he believes its trophy hunting when you take meat as well as the hide/skull, etc?

[Bugle M In]

When he says he's from "the environment side of the NDP party" he means he opposes any and all economic developments related to natural resources extraction, it's a round about way of saying I'm philosophically aligned
with David Suzuki, Sierra Club, and the raincoast foundation.

No, from what he was saying.
He would like to see a refinery here...so I guess he supports a pipeline?
He made is living in Forestry, so, I think he supports that as well.

I only asked about him, as it is hard to know where parties stand on issues...if they are telling the truth or only what you
want to hear.
Problem is, and why I posted was....we never really hear from members of the political parties and their own personal views
about hunting....so it is hard to know who is who.
Atleast he was honest....he supports a wolf cull...but hard to say that out loud!....
I will give him that.

[Rackmastr]

Clipped from an article.....

Heyman said that under an NDP government, the few people who say they hunt grizzlies for food will be eligible to get a hunting tag, but will be subject to regulations to ensure it is not an excuse for a trophy hunt.

That could mean surrendering the trophy parts of the animal or some other mechanism.

“We are not planning to leave loopholes in the banning of the trophy hunt. We are serious and we will put regulations in place to make it happen,” Heyman said.
"We will ensure that a food hunt is not used as a surrogate for the trophy hunt and we are serious about letting the bear viewing industry succeed and thrive.”

[Fisher-Dude]

“From our perspective, we understand that majority of British Columbians simply don’t want this to continue,” Heyman said. “And we also know that there is a very healthy grizzly bear viewing economy in British Columbia, and the killing of grizzly bears is incompatible with the viewing of grizzly bears.”


That should be enough for you to decide if he's full of BS when he spoke with you.

[Bugle M In]

I suppose you'd want to figure out the percentage of hunters belonging to each party, if it's possible.

NOT at all!!
That's each on of yours own choices.

Has nothing to do with who is voting for who and a hunters consensus....OMG.

Just asking if people knew if this guy was being honest at the door...or if he is BS'ing.

[Bugle M In]

Clipped from an article.....

Heyman said that under an NDP government, the few people who say they hunt grizzlies for food will be eligible to get a hunting tag, but will be subject to regulations to ensure it is not an excuse for a trophy hunt.

That could mean surrendering the trophy parts of the animal or some other mechanism.

“We are not planning to leave loopholes in the banning of the trophy hunt. We are serious and we will put regulations in place to make it happen,” Heyman said.
"We will ensure that a food hunt is not used as a surrogate for the trophy hunt and we are serious about letting the bear viewing industry succeed and thrive.”



Why not a "inspection"??? just like sheep??

[Norwestalta]

NOT at all!!
That's each on of yours own choices.

Has nothing to do with who is voting for who and a hunters consensus....OMG.

Just asking if people knew if this guy was being honest at the door...or if he is BS'ing.

Omg? Think about it? Who will stand up for hunters rights? The party where 1% are hunters to make the policies or the party with 100% hunter membership to make policies. OMG it's not had to figure out a politician is a politician and will toe the party line.

[Bugle M In]

“From our perspective, we understand that majority of British Columbians simply don’t want this to continue,” Heyman said. “And we also know that there is a very healthy grizzly bear viewing economy in British Columbia, and the killing of grizzly bears is incompatible with the viewing of grizzly bears.”


That should be enough for you to decide if he's full of BS when he spoke with you.


To me...it sounded like he was against the killing "just for the skull and hide".....and he was straight up on that.
Just wasn't sure if he would someday down the road then be against...say sheep hunting???

But after posting the OP, I ran into him outside....
And he supports hunting and enjoys wild game meat.
So, atleast he wasn't afraid to tell me that he were he stood (grizz).
But, that is only one guy in the party...but 1 of only a few I can vote for here

I know some on this site are more in the loop with what BC Politicians are saying etc....so I just wanted some feedback
on him.
Who knows...maybe the liberal candidate will show up??? or maybe they are against hunting...who the hell knows these days

[Rackmastr]

Why not a "inspection"??? just like sheep??

Because that's trophy hunting in the eyes of the NDP. He doesn't want you keeping it. Period. What's next up after the grizz?

Edit to clarify: Thats HIS position, and it seems like its a mix of several other politicians who cant seem to get it straight what they think "trophy hunting" is. They just know that sexy words like that work around election time and ensure they use them whenever they can, even if they cant get their answers straight. Heyman is VERY clear though from the statements he made.

[Wild one]

Because that's trophy hunting in the eyes of the NDP. He doesn't want you keeping it. Period. What's next up after the grizz?

Agree slippery slope with that kind of thinking to end trophy hunting

Leaves all sorts of restrictions to be put into place regarding non edible portions of all species

[Bugle M In]

Omg? Think about it? Who will stand up for hunters rights? The party where 1% are hunters to make the policies or the party with 100% hunter membership to make policies. OMG it's not had to figure out a politician is a politician and will toe the party line.

No need voting then I suppose.
Agree, they have to tow the party line....the biggest issue I have with voting and politics.
Like the states...you can pick a person...but you a picking either a democrat or a republican....
NOT THE PERSON!......
In other words....The Party Line....sad...

[Bugle M In]

So...lets see...when it comes to "hunting issues in BC" and the upcoming election.

We can pick the Libs, but, their party line is to take from Resident Hunters and give hunting to the GOABC (behind close doors)
or
NDP, and lose "trophy grizz hunting", and possibly other hunting in the future....party line...
or
Green...ah ya....forget them....
so....
Hunting opportunities will dwindle regardless....
Wildlife will decline even more (etc face it...libs have been in for a long time now...and look whats happening)
So....
Hey...just sit it out....or????
Not much good for us hunters for the future is there.

[Norwestalta]

No need voting then I suppose.
Agree, they have to tow the party line....the biggest issue I have with voting and politics.
Like the states...you can pick a person...but you a picking either a democrat or a republican....
NOT THE PERSON!......
In other words....The Party Line....sad...

It is sad. There is no doubt. It's the shits when there is no one to vote for. I pick the best of the worst. Lol. IMO it is important to vote. Wouldn't hurt my feelings if there were no parties and everyone sat as a independent and represented their ridings rather then the party line.

[Bugle M In]

It is sad. There is no doubt. It's the shits when there is no one to vote for. I pick the best of the worst. Lol. IMO it is important to vote. Wouldn't hurt my feelings if there were no parties and everyone sat as a independent and represented their ridings rather then the party line.

Bingo....I want to vote the person...not the party....
That is the biggest reform that is needed in politics.

George Heyman,,well....I think he was honest.
He doesn't want to see any animal just killed for horns, hide or skull.....
I think he is "not" opposed to Grizz hunting....as long as it is used for food as well.
I think he gets that we need CO's, and is not opposed to predator control.
Which to me ...falls into my own line of thinking personally.
BUT....
It's not just him I would have to vote for...it's the party...and the "PARTY LINE"...

If this is how politics will always stay...then we need to set up a "lobbyist group" (resident hunters of BC)!!!
Cause that is the only way we are going to preserve our rights/traditions for the future......if not....
it's only going to get worse and to a point where all parties are towing the line against hunting...

[Wild one]

So...lets see...when it comes to "hunting issues in BC" and the upcoming election.

We can pick the Libs, but, their party line is to take from Resident Hunters and give hunting to the GOABC (behind close doors)
or
NDP, and lose "trophy grizz hunting", and possibly other hunting in the future....party line...
or
Green...ah ya....forget them....
so....
Hunting opportunities will dwindle regardless....
Wildlife will decline even more (etc face it...libs have been in for a long time now...and look whats happening)
So....
Hey...just sit it out....or????
Not much good for us hunters for the future is there.

Basicly we are F ed in one way or another no matter who we vote for

I will vote Lib so I can afford to go hunting and we are less likely to loose hunts. Are they the best people for the job hell no but the other options are worse

Hunting wise at least the Libs are talking about improving management and funding

[tuner]

Quote:Like the states...you can pick a person...but you a picking either a democrat or a republican....


except by American standards the BC Liberals would be considered "moderate democrats" while the NDP would be a
"Marxist Leninist Party".

[tuner]

Heyman, was the boss of the BCGEU, a powerful and greedy BC public sector union, he then resigned and became the honcho of the foreign SIERRA CLUB, a hardcore outfit associated with that little prick, Suzuki. So, as with AH Weaver, quite frankly, I DO NOT trust or believe him.

I also just hate the NDP and despise the Lieberals, might sit this one out........ :(
and there you have it, how incredibly appropriate for an NDP candidate, really couldn't have greater credentials
for a party candidacy, boss of a large public sector union, and then boss of radical environmental group, what further proof do you need to know this clown is full of shit, Bugle?

[Rackmastr]

George Heyman,,well....I think he was honest.
He doesn't want to see any animal just killed for horns, hide or skull.....
I think he is "not" opposed to Grizz hunting....as long as it is used for food as well.


BUT....
It's not just him I would have to vote for...it's the party...and the "PARTY LINE"...



In terms of the grizz hunt, you are being willfully blind to the comments that the PERSON has made. They are far more extreme than the" party line" I'd say when it comes to grizz and trophy hunting.

Totally cool if you have already made up your mind about him and his comments on the grizz hunt, but you don't seem to address those specific comments HE made... Not his party. Him.

[325]

Vote NDP if you don't care about the future of our hunting heritage. Period. There is really nothing more to discuss.

[Surrey Boy]

We ship crude oil for the same reason we ship raw logs - taxes and environmental regulations are too high to process the product domestically. We ship it across the Pacific Ocean where the pollution gets released so it can blow back and rain down on us, while Asia gets rich and we become poor.

Not to mention that socialist governments tax anyone making money, so nobody will build a mill or refinery here if it won't pay for itself in the same election cycle. They won't buy anything here that they can't move to a more business-friendly jurisdiction when we raise taxes. Look at all the businesses leaving Ontario and Alberta right now. Remember Detroit, Seattle, Los Angeles. If you keep sucking a dry teat, the cow goes away.

[Norwestalta]

We ship crude oil for the same reason we ship raw logs - taxes and environmental regulations are too high to process the product domestically. We ship it across the Pacific Ocean where the pollution gets released so it can blow back and rain down on us, while Asia gets rich and we become poor.

Not to mention that socialist governments tax anyone making money, so nobody will build a mill or refinery here if it won't pay for itself in the same election cycle. They won't buy anything here that they can't move to a more business-friendly jurisdiction when we raise taxes. Look at all the businesses leaving Ontario and Alberta right now. Remember Detroit, Seattle, Los Angeles. If you keep sucking a dry teat, the cow goes away.

Well said.

[Rotorwash]

We ship crude oil for the same reason we ship raw logs - taxes and environmental regulations are too high to process the product domestically. We ship it across the Pacific Ocean where the pollution gets released so it can blow back and rain down on us, while Asia gets rich and we become poor.

Not to mention that socialist governments tax anyone making money, so nobody will build a mill or refinery here if it won't pay for itself in the same election cycle. They won't buy anything here that they can't move to a more business-friendly jurisdiction when we raise taxes. Look at all the businesses leaving Ontario and Alberta right now. Remember Detroit, Seattle, Los Angeles. If you keep sucking a dry teat, the cow goes away.

I agree with this.

If they get in and build a refinery it would be no different than the Fast ferry scandal. The NDP will do little to no research as to its viability , give the contracts to their crony buddies, itll cost the tax payers more than double its giant budget, then after its complete and not making any money they will sell it off for a few percent of what it cost us, and when they are done in office they will take up a nice cushy high paying executive job at one one of those companies.

[Harvest the Land]

Its clear that none of the parties consider putting more $$$ into wildlife management as a clear necessity or view it as a major priority - which is very sad. That said, its time for a change. Enough of Premier Photo Op enriching herself and her fat cat real estate developer buddies. It's gotten out of control and I've had enough of that sh_t. So I will be voting for Horgan (I think he's a good man) who said he will get money out of politics altogether. If he doesn't deliver on that promise, I will vote him out in 4 years. Time for a change!

[Bugle M In]

In terms of the grizz hunt, you are being willfully blind to the comments that the PERSON has made. They are far more extreme than the" party line" I'd say when it comes to grizz and trophy hunting.

Totally cool if you have already made up your mind about him and his comments on the grizz hunt, but you don't seem to address those specific comments HE made... Not his party. Him.

I never made up my mind....
To be honest....I probably won't waste my time voting.
Spoiling a ballot seems pointless....
If "none of the above" was a choice...I would go...to send a message.
Just wanted to ask and see what this guy was about....seemed legit...but then again...I did ask all on here.
My concerns are about the situation with our "BC Wildlife" and "our BC Hunting Rights and Future".

As for the other.... "economic issues"...and why vote this way or that........wrong forum...and was not my intent.
Don't want to know who is voting for who and why etc....
Just want to know if this guy was as legit as he seemed to be....
Doubt anyone else from any other party will be any more legit.

As for trophy grizz hunting....well that's another thread....
All I can say is this......get it in while you can!!

It is not hard to see that every year that grizz hunting is a "political hot potato"!
Sooner or later it will be "more important for a politician to go with the majority" to get his/her's votes.
(if that ain't obvious...look at the polls)

The only ones that will have hunting one day are the "rich and FN"
And then...just the FN ......( due to being politically correct)

Now that's politics in BC and the future for hunters and BC Wildlife.

[Rotorwash]

Its about time someone started another party in BC.

maybe one focused on enhancing our resources ... Sh't... Bull Moose party?

[markomoose]

Well I'm sorry but some of us are getting pumped up for spring bear and our Grizzly hunts and not politics.Unfortunately it is that time of us to choose a new government and now I feel this place will be inandated with political garbage.Time to go hunting.

[Bugle M In]

Well I'm sorry but some of us are getting pumped up for spring bear and our Grizzly hunts and not politics.Unfortunately it is that time of us to choose a new government and now I feel this place will be inandated with political garbage.Time to go hunting.

Your right....
Good luck out there...have fun.

[markomoose]

Thanks Bugle M In!I'm not disrespecting your thoughts or opinions as I respect most everyone on here.Just not a fan of politics but I do vote.Good Luck on your upcoming season!! Cheers Mark

[northof49]

Haha....no such thing as honest politician. Will always tell you want you want to hear to get elected. Individual opinion doesn't matter much anyhow as party calls the shots in the end. NDP has poor track record. That said can't say I am happy about how the Liberals have managed the housing prices in the lower mainland. Too little to late as we watch the influx and corrupt money flow in unchecked for years. Hard to talk about political parties/candidates and not start talking about bigger picture. NDP will never get my vote regardless what one or two candidates views might be. Vote in NDP and watch how fast the Gbear trophy ban will quickly morph into a moratorium followed by all out ban. JMO

[Norwestalta]

Its about time someone started another party in BC.

maybe one focused on enhancing our resources ... Sh't... Bull Moose party?

Be careful what you wish for. Ndp didn't win in albeeria but the two right wing parties split the vote and ndp got in by default. Chances are pretty good that it'll happen again. I live 3 miles from the border and I should look at annexing myself from Alberta and joining the bc south peace.

[j270wsm]

Local news paper had an NDP add today. Nice pic of a grizz sow and cub with the caption " 65% of east kootenay residents oppose the trophy hunting of grizzly bears. Do you? "

Remember, politicians are good at a few things....... lying to the public and making people believe their bullshit.
No goverment party is good for us. I always choose the lesser of the evils.

[Bugle M In]

It is very hard to talk about politics/politicians in respect to hunting/wildlife preservation and to keep the topic/discussion on just that.......there are so many factors like health, economics, schooling and now throw in housing and carbon tax and etc.
It's hard not to go from one area of the discussion into so many other avenues that are also considerations for all of us.
We will all have our opinions.
We all have to accept to some degree that if we vote, we will have to swallow some sort of "poisin pill"....regardless.
That is what I find so hard over the years, and seeing that politics and the way our system is will never change....
never improve etc (yes...better then other parts of the world...but still tons of room for improvement).
Just this...I didn't like what the liberals did in regards to allocation and the GOABC ( it shows me that they are the "rich
boys club"...not just that issue, but on so many fronts......privatizing etc).
Then you have the greens....who have their heads in their asses....(yes, I want a planet that will be around forever too..but)
NDP....I get it....they suck also....
But, does it have to be so hard to get things such as wildlife #'s back up in the province....to protect habitat...or to fix it....
without either "losing one's right to hunt or giving away opportunity cause your wallet isn't fat enough...??
Anyways...all good guys.
One last thing...
I may not share the same opinion on G-Bear hunting for the sake of just the hide and skull,..... but........
When that petition was there to sign to save G-Bear hunting or to take a poll "in favour" of G-Bear Trophy hunting and it's
continuation....I always supported the fellow hunter in keeping it!
I always signed up, I always took the time to support the Gbear hunter.....and I always will.(just so that there is no
confusion on that matter)

Cheers all

[Bugle M In]

So...George Heyman sent me an email.....he said he would.
I only cut the part that is relevant about hunting....don't need the rest of the platform here.
Not saying I am voting for him...just want to post what he sent me for all who are curious to read....ok!!??

"Hi Andrew, it was a pleasure to talk with you today. Below are excerpts from our BC NDP platform released today regarding hunting and housing.I hope they meet with your approval.


Best regards, George

Improving wildlife management
British Columbia’s biodiversity, fish and wildlife populations and the habitat upon which they depend are under threat due to lack of funding, government cuts to staff and ineffective policies.

› We will ensure dedicated funding for wildlife and habitat conservation, give wildlife and habitat priority, and engage concerned groups to work collaboratively towards short and long term plans for our wildlife resources.
› We will put all funds from hunting licenses and tags into a dedicated fund for wildlife and habitat conservation.
› We will bring people who rely on our wildlife resources together and ensure they all participate in and contribute financially to conservation. This way we will not only ensure dedicated funding for habitat conservation but have the funds required to do the work needed

Banning the grizzly trophy hunt
British Columbia is one of the few places on earth where grizzlies still thrive. Recreational viewing of grizzlies generates significant economic activity and good jobs on the coast and in the interior.
The vast majority of British Columbians believe it is wrong for these rare and threatened creatures to be shot for trophies.
It’s not just wrong, it’s bad for the economy. The trophy hunting of grizzly bears delivers fewer jobs than wildlife viewing operations, and is opposed by most hunters.
› We will ban the grizzly bear trophy hunt.
› We will make permits for other kinds of hunting more fair for BC residents.

[fireguy]

"Ban the grizzly bear trophy hunt" is the same thing as saying we will ban grizzly bear hunting.

They did did it in the past and will do it again. There is no doubt about that.

I just wish wish that the NDP politicians would just say what they mean up front without trying to please you because they know your a hunter.

[fireguy]

If he sent you an email , respond and ask for the truth. No bs.

No reason why if I go grizzly bear hunting I can't take the hide and skull out with me and hang it on the wall.

Just glad I have already got one, if NDP get back in that opportunity will disappear again.

[Fisher-Dude]

The wildlife funding issue has its twists and curves.

The Liberals have committed to the funding model we've been asking for, which is an independent entity like Freshwater Fisheries funded by our licence and tag money.

The NDP has talked about putting the licence and tag money toward wildlife, but nowhere have I seen them commit to the independent agency. The NDP hates independent agencies, and loves bloated unionized bureaucracies within government. My fear is our money will stay within government's clutches, result in a bloated bureaucracy, get wasted on endless "studies" to avoid offending anyone, and thus still be dictated by politics instead of wildlife science.

I expect the NDP are rubbing their hands together at the prospect of getting our millions to fund a fat bureaucracy, where they still call the shots and keep their union owners happy with more union bloat. No thanks.

[Darksith]

When he says he's from "the environment side of the NDP party" he means he opposes any and all economic developments related to natural resources extraction, it's a round about way of saying I'm philosophically aligned
with David Suzuki, Sierra Club, and the raincoast foundation.
He said he was pro refinery so your statement is BS.

Why can't the NDP evolve? Why can't we look to the only other party to do things a bit differently but not expect drastic changes? I completely agree that a smart NDP would be against more oil tankers off our coast which would win them a lot of votes in the LML, but they should, could and maybe just will suggest an alternative. Scrap the 9B site C debacle that isn't needed, and take that cash and dump it into the construction of an oil refinery. Its a win win win, no tankers, jobs and pro industry.

As for the grizzly hunt, it really does sound like the NDP will kill it for the GOABC but make meat removal mandatory for residents. Im not opposed to that. Its time we dumped the fiberals if and only maybe because they have been there too long.


The wildlife funding issue has its twists and curves.

The Liberals have committed to the funding model we've been asking for, which is an independent entity like Freshwater Fisheries funded by our licence and tag money.

The NDP has talked about putting the licence and tag money toward wildlife, but nowhere have I seen them commit to the independent agency. The NDP hates independent agencies, and loves bloated unionized bureaucracies within government. My fear is our money will stay within government's clutches, result in a bloated bureaucracy, get wasted on endless "studies" to avoid offending anyone, and thus still be dictated by politics instead of wildlife science.

I expect the NDP are rubbing their hands together at the prospect of getting our millions to fund a fat bureaucracy, where they still call the shots and keep their union owners happy with more union bloat. No thanks.
Our millions...come on back to reality now would you. In the big bucket of things, our millions are mere pennies or half pennies. The liberals have committed to what now? Letting our moose populations plummet due to big industry desires, lack of funding for proper management aka surveys. Wake up man, the liberals are why we have decreased populations, decreased quota and decreased opportunity in this province. I get it that you are super anti NDP but the liberals are a joke if you are a hunter.

[Fisher-Dude]

Our millions...come on back to reality now would you.


Is $10 million a year millions?

[tuner]

I would of figured you would have learned a couple of lessons by now, after all every election you spout off about the virtues of the NDP, lose in the most humiliating fashion and then quietly saunter off with your tail between your legs like beaten dog. So how many of these oil refineries are the NDP planning on building, i would figured if they were profitable, there would plenty of them around, oil companies after all,are in the business of making money, I don't think they need any business lessons from the NDP. Perhaps the oil could be transported here by mule, that's an eco friendly transport method. Yeah great ideas there Sith,I'm surprised your not an NDP candidate yourself, you come across as just what their looking for in a finance minister. :mrgreen:

[Fisher-Dude]

I would of figured you would have learned a couple of lessons by now, after all every election you spout off about the virtues of the NDP, lose in the most humiliating fashion and then quietly saunter off with your tail between your legs like beaten dog. So how many of these oil refineries are the NDP planning on building, i would figured if they were profitable, there would plenty of them around, oil companies after all,are in the business of making money, I don't think they need any business lessons from the NDP. Perhaps the oil could be transported here by mule, that's an eco friendly transport method. Yeah great ideas there Sith,I'm surprised your not an NDP candidate yourself, you come across as just what their looking for in a finance minister. :mrgreen:

Couldn't have said it better myself. He'd vote for Charles Manson if he were the NDP candidate in his riding.

When efficient private enterprise builds a refinery, the capital investment generally takes some 25 years to recoup when operating at capacity.

Can you imagine an NDP refinery's payback period?

Horgan's refinery ideas fit well with his promised Leap Manifesto implementation in BC. Nationalisation of the means of production, Comrade.

[Rackmastr]

As for the grizzly hunt, it really does sound like the NDP will kill it for the GOABC but make meat removal mandatory for residents. Im not opposed to that. Its time we dumped the fiberals if and only maybe because they have been there too long.



Someone else needs to come back to reality. The NDP will end the grizz hunt. Yep, they'll end it for GOABC and they'll make it a 'meat-only' hunt for residents. Words like 'sustenance hunters' has been thrown around and statements made about turning in hides/skulls. Essentially, by any other words, it will shut down the grizzly hunt as there aren't many that will hunt for grizz and find it acceptable to turn in a skull/hide for destruction.

I get it if you hate the Liberals, but to spin this issue any other way is laughable at best. Its time NDP supporters just accept this as part of their reality (which is fine if that's what you're ok with).

[Bugle M In]

If the "big one" ever strikes...oil refineries will be a big commodity after the ones down in Oregon sink into the sand!
Sure would be nice to have a few here...maybe like Kamloops etc.
No more excuses that our gas cost so much because we import it from south of the line.
Sell off our raw timber overseas, and now ship raw oil overseas.....??
Seems like a few more jobs could be had here, and we would all benefit...
Probably benefit from that more than from LNG.....

Anyways, I may reply to his email...and my thoughts and opinions on the Gbear issue....
But....towing the party line is what I fear the most....as I know many want to ban Gbear hunting outright,
regardless if you pack it all out or not.
I will say I don't think he "lied to me" at the door....not like I was completely expecting anyways.

[Buck]

Good chance for residents to punish this Government for its arrogance and lack of integrity. A vote for libs is a vote for the status quo no change and they will continue tp prop up a broken Guide outfitter model on the backs of BC residents.You guys sure the Liberals are the right party to protect resident hunter opportunity i'm not.
http://cfjctoday.com/article/557798/former-government-employees-speaks-about (http://cfjctoday.com/article/557798/former-government-employees-speaks-about)


Oh and this http:// (http://<a href=&quot;http://s263.photobucket.com/user/Ramcam-Photos/media/signed%20goverment%20allocation%20letter.jpeg.html &quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii159/Ramcam-Photos/signed%20goverment%20allocation%20letter.jpeg</a>)http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii159/Ramcam-Photos/signed%20goverment%20allocation%20letter.jpeg (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/Ramcam-Photos/media/signed%20goverment%20allocation%20letter.jpeg.html )

[Bugle M In]

The one thing...if I remember correctly.. was back in the day (early 90's), it was the NDP who put forth more money for CO's.

[Norwestalta]

I wouldn't put to much stock in refineries. While I would welcome one there is a reason why Alberta isn't in the process of building them.

[Fisher-Dude]

The one thing...if I remember correctly.. was back in the day (early 90's), it was the NDP who put forth more money for CO's.

Stay away from revisionist history.

The truth will set you free (from doing something dumb, like voting NDP).


British Columbia's Environment Budget Continues Decline
05/15/00
*******************************
RELAYED TEXT STARTS HERE:

Title: British Columbia's Environment Budget Continues Decline
Source: © 1999 Canadian Institute for Business and the Environment, Montreal
Date: May 15, 2000

MONTREAL, May 15, 2000 - Since 1995/96, the Government of British Columbia (B.C.) has cut its environment budget 28.5 percent - from $263,700,000 to $188,506,000 in the new fiscal year 2000/2001. The Ministry of Environment, Lands and Parks was one of the least funded ministries, listed 12th out of 19 ministries in budget size. The environment ministry budget represented only 0.8 percent of the total 1999/2000 British Columbia budget of $21.1 billion and is being cut at a time when the entire BC budget has been increased.

Cuts to the environment budget in B.C. are much larger than the average cuts to any of the other ministries. While it is important that fat be trimmed from government spending, it is indicative that the environment budget was cut much more than the overall government cutbacks, which average much less than 10 percent since 1995.

More than 400 full time positions have been removed from the Ministry of Environment, Lands and Parks. As a result, the Ministry has lost the ability to fully inspect, monitor, and enforce its own laws. Also, the B.C. government has lost the ability to enforce federal laws such as the federal Fisheries Act, CEPA and the new Species at Risk Act (SARA) that will be passed this year. Also, B.C. is no longer in a position to monitor and enforce the Canada Wide Standards that will be set out under Canadian Council of the Ministers of the Environment (CCME) under the Harmonization Agreement that gives some of the federal powers to the provinces. As a result, B.C. will have unfunded mandates and will basically not be able to meet its legal obligations under its laws. Also, it will not be able to help Canada comply with national commitments to international environmental agreements, because of lack of funding.

To contact the B.C. Government about the budget cuts email communications@gems7.gov.bc.ca. See the B.C. Government budget at the website http://www.bcbudget.gov.bc.ca/. See the B.C. Ministry of Environment, Lands and Parks at http://www.gov.bc.ca/elp/.
B.C. Ministry of Environment, Lands & Parks Budget From 1995 to 2000
The following are the annual budget allocations by the Government of British Columbia to the Ministry of Environment, Lands & Parks (MELP). The numbers are in the millions of dollars (000,000):

95/96 - $263
96/97 - $222
97/98 - $204
98/99 - $188
99/00 - $194
00/01 - $188

During this same period MELP staff were reduced by 400 from 2,453 in 1995 to 2053 in 2000. Normally, it is expected that the New Democratic Party (NDP) is socially sensitive and environmentally friendly. Certainly, that is how the NDP has cast itself in opposition. However, now as government, like in Ontario (during the Bob Rae NDP Government), the NDP have displayed much more conservative attitudes regarding the need to protect the environmental health of people.
Source B.C. Government Services Employees' Union (BCGEU), 2994 Douglas Street, Victoria, B.C. , V8T 4N4, ph. (250) 388-9948, fax (250) 384-8060, 1 800 667- 1033, E-mail: mail@bcgeu.bc.ca , Website: http://www.bcgeu.bc.ca/contact.html.

B.C. Environment Survey Reveals Government of British Columbia Not Doing Its Job
A survey conducted of the professionals working for MELP reveals that the ability of the Ministry to protect the environment has been severely compromised by the budget cuts. The survey, conducted by the British Columbia Government Employees' Union (BCGEU) found, "very low morale, and a great loss of confidence in the ministry's ability to protect the environment". It found that, "ministry employees have lost confidence in the ministry's ability to do the job. With further cuts to staff and resources planned for the current fiscal year, the ministry will become even less able to manage and protect our environment". The survey found that, "the men and women who protect B.C.'s environment say that they are less able to do the job now than they were five years ago, and that there is not enough field work, monitoring and assessment."

It also found that, "current workloads do not allow permit and monitoring systems to work effectively. Only 2 percent give a "good" rating to B.C.'s permit and monitoring systems. None rate it as "very effective". More than half 53 percent call it "poor", while 35 percent say it is "not at all effective", for a combined negative rating of 88 percent. The survey was conducted by sending 1,600 questionnaires to MELP staff; out of which 252 (16 percent) were returned and analyzed.

A copy of the report based on the survey can be obtained from Cliff Stainsby, Senior Researcher, British Columbia Government Employees' Union, 2994 Douglas Street, Victoria, B.C. V8T 4N4, ph. (250) 388-9948, fax (250) 384-8060, 1 800 667- 1033, E-mail mail@bcgeu.bc.ca , Website http://www.bcgeu.bc.ca/contact.html.

[Whonnock Boy]

Weird.... the Liberals never reinstated the funding or jobs.

[Surrey Boy]

Weird.... the Liberals never reinstated the funding or jobs.

Gordon Campbell campaigned on a platform of budget cuts. Naturally, more Crown agents were not hired.

[Bugle M In]

So...out of curioustity....
If my local "liberal MLA" knocks at the door, and I ask them the same question....and they say they are personally
against hunting....then what???

You can see where I am going here....no????

Sometimes we hunters are our own worse enemy....
I had a feeling the GBear hunting was coming to an end at some point.
All the media over the years...
The lack of LEH tags being introduced, even though GBear #'s were up again from years ago...
Yet, no new tags or seasons???
And then....what was the worse thing we hunter's did to contribute to the fall of GBear hunting is....
"Not packing the meat out with us"!
Hell, could have taken it home at least and then 'bury it", if one does not really want to consume it.....(just saying).
At least it would have looked better in the general non hunter public eyes!
I have many friends who do not hunt...yet support me and my hunting rights.....BUT....
They don't support shooting an animal just for bone and hide!
By doing that, We Hunters "LOSE SUPPORT" from many in the general public.

You don't have to like my statement, you may totally disagree with my opinion, BUT, it is what has cuased this
to happen...oh, and then some of the stupid video's hunters post online to add more fire to the cause.
(I know bad happens out there, and I know clean kills happen as well...but if it goes real bad....keep it to yourself!)

It isn't going to matter who ya vote for....most of the time a party is successful if economic times are good...and if
it's crap....so is the party involved at the time.
Oil at 30 - 50$ a barrel is going to make any party look bad!
And if most of the revenue for a province comes from oil, and that dries up...well of course they are going to ask the
residents of the province to buck up!....and yes...it is a double whammy for those in the province....should you have
expected less.
All I can say about Alberta..."Welcome to BC!"....without the oil revenue...you will pay higher taxes...period and real simple!

No matter which party someone votes for, don't expect Wolf Culls, don't expect any real funding to enhancements projects....
Expect a ban on Gbear somewhere down the road (it's coming one day) and expect more reduction in season's and
Limits in LEH....
That's the road we've been down now for years, and it will just continue....

Liberals may be better for BC Residents, but, as for Hunters....it doesn't natter which way you swing.....
Any other party will not be any different as well on that matter.
Say what you all want.

[wideopenthrottle]

on the topic of having to retreive meat from grizz bears, if it is "it must be brought to a domicile or butcher" then the GO's will be on board but if it is "it must be brought to your own home" (like to the USA or other foriegn country ) then the GO's will not be on board IMHO..

which way would you support? of the two meat retention options?

[bigben]

Basicly we are F ed in one way or another no matter who we vote for

I will vote Lib so I can afford to go hunting and we are less likely to loose hunts. Are they the best people for the job hell no but the other options are worse

Hunting wise at least the Libs are talking about improving management and funding
Question
why did it take till now to improve the management this has been on going for the last 10 years it got to a point that it is so bad it has to be addressed I like what a gentleman said on here time to have a seperate lobbying group for the people of BC and we need to fund it to lobby for each individual hunter that wants to hunt in BC for the future and we to set this up quickly in order to succeed

[180grainer]

So, just had George Heyman of the NDP here.
Obviously, he asked what my concerns were, and which way I may be voting etc.

Told him a big concern is what we have been talking about on this forum over the past few years.
He said that he was on the Enviroment side of the NDP party (I guess that means he would be a
potential "environment minister" pick if the NDP won???)

Anyways, he said he would want all money from hunting licenses to go back into the environment etc.
He said he was "NOT" against "wolf culls", although that may not make him well liked by many voters, which we could all understand if we were trying to be elected.
Also said that they would like to give us, the resident hunters, back the allocations that we lost to the
GOABC.

That the only thing they (NDP) didn't support was "trophy grizz hunting", but that they do support
"hunting for food".
Honestly, I never really was for killing something unless you "packed it out".
(meaning, a bear just for the rug, has never really interested me, unless, it was to manage a predator control issue in areas where it is needed)

So...what to think....am I being "bullshitted"???
Sounds like he knew some stuff and the issues......(although he had "no knowledge" of this hunting forum.....which makes me wonder "how much of a voice do BC Resident Hunters have??)

Oh, one last thing, he said he would support a "Oil Refinery" here in the province.
Something I personally think we need in BC (actually in a few places), rather then shipping it "Raw".

So...thoughts???....let it rip!
One of the things you could have pointed out is that the Grizzly hunt, although a trophy hunt, is also an important management tool as they do impact moose, caribou, deer, and other populations. You could have also pointed out that it's probably the most heavily watch and regulated hunt in North America if not the world. Nothing wrong with taking the animal for the hide in a controlled environment as I'm sure most trappers would agree.

[180grainer]

on the topic of having to retreive meat from grizz bears, if it is "it must be brought to a domicile or butcher" then the GO's will be on board but if it is "it must be brought to your own home" (like to the USA or other foriegn country ) then the GO's will not be on board IMHO..

which way would you support? of the two meat retention options?

The definition of "place of consumption" is outlined in the regs. I certainly understand the sentiment of those that advocate taking the meat to placate the anti's. But honestly, that's not what the hunt is about. It's a trophy hunt and people shouldn't be ashamed of that when its conducted in the manner it is. It's heavily regulated, it provides benefits to bear research and game management, and it's conducted using means that are humane. That and nothing goes to waste in the bush.

[Whonnock Boy]

I completely disagree. It's wildlife management, and the sooner we as hunters change our mindset on that, the sooner we can convince the masses of what it is. Respectfully....


It's a trophy hunt

[Bugle M In]

One of the things you could have pointed out is that the Grizzly hunt, although a trophy hunt, is also an important management tool as they do impact moose, caribou, deer, and other populations. You could have also pointed out that it's probably the most heavily watch and regulated hunt in North America if not the world. Nothing wrong with taking the animal for the hide in a controlled environment as I'm sure most trappers would agree.


Actually...that's what I told Heyman at the door.....
GBear hunts are not just trophy hunting...but...predator control...population balance...or whatever term is best applied.
That's why "Wolf Culling" was in my 1st few posts with him.
Something he said he understood/supported...but nothing he wants to "shout out to loudly" publicly...due to public outcry.
(that I can understand...he is running for office....and votes count....I wouldn't be screaming it out during a campaign
either, although I would agree to culling at meetings).

[Bugle M In]

The definition of "place of consumption" is outlined in the regs. I certainly understand the sentiment of those that advocate taking the meat to placate the anti's. But honestly, that's not what the hunt is about. It's a trophy hunt and people shouldn't be ashamed of that when its conducted in the manner it is. It's heavily regulated, it provides benefits to bear research and game management, and it's conducted using means that are humane. That and nothing goes to waste in the bush.

I think the point your not seeing is the "ramification" it has already caused.
You don't need to convince a fellow hunter like me.
I hunt elk because I love the meat.
I hunt MDeer because I am looking for the challenge of finding the elusive "monster buck"
I bring the meat home and consume it when I do pull that trigger on MDeer.....but....
I don't pull the pin very often on deer because they don't carry the bone/challenge.
I will fire on any legal elk I have a tag for ( but ya....you dream it is a 350+ class bull!)
BUT......
You are loosing the support of people who would not oppose GBear hunt if they felt the meat was part of the goal.
(you will never convince vegans!)
And "There!!" is where you have "Lost your support" for GBear hunting in the future"....!!!!

Just because you feel no shame (which you shouldn't)......is not going to help you in this battle with getting support
from the general public.
And yes...it doesn't go to waste in the woods (I'm a hunter....but it's "not MY SUPPORT you NEED").....
Others don't see that out in the public.
You have to look at things from their point/feelings....and then figure out what's the best way to minimize those issue,
and then educate them on the things you are stating.
Not trying to bash you or put you down in any way....
I am just trying to help you help save the GBEAR hunt....I hope you can see it that way.

[Surrey Boy]

I completely disagree. It's wildlife management, and the sooner we as hunters change our mindset on that, the sooner we can convince the masses of what it is. Respectfully....

That's the point that I find goes farthest. Even more than "sustainable, organic, locally grown, selectively harvested, free range, non GMO, low-fat meat". What improves the esteem of hunters is how we keep nature in balance, and moderate the effects of civilization on wildlife.

[Bugle M In]

I completely disagree. It's wildlife management, and the sooner we as hunters change our mindset on that, the sooner we can convince the masses of what it is. Respectfully....

I think we all as hunters understand the "trophy hunt terminology" when it is used......
Sadly....Its not the best term or choice of word we as hunters came up with back in the day.
Unfortunately, "trophy" has stuck....and now with social internet media....has kinda created a problem ....
and created a quite "damaging" statement on a "stick board banner" for the anti's.

Either way "Trophy" is a word We understand fully n how it is used, and they understand how to use it "against us".

[Bugle M In]

on the topic of having to retreive meat from grizz bears, if it is "it must be brought to a domicile or butcher" then the GO's will be on board but if it is "it must be brought to your own home" (like to the USA or other foriegn country ) then the GO's will not be on board IMHO..

which way would you support? of the two meat retention options?

Agree...
GO wouldn't support meat retention back to USA...
But, maybe GO need to add to the pot to sweeten the "right to continue to gbear, if it is only looked at as a trophy hunt"....
maybe GO should retain the meat themselves...turn it into sausage....and supply it to "Food Banks".
(legally, there would probably need to be some testing....but hey...I shoot a wild boar in Germany, but before I can even
consume it myself, it has to be inspected ....organs etc somewhere qualified).
Ya, laugh at that I suppose, but when the hunt is banned one day....no more laughing then.

In one way, I would be fine without GO's in BC....let's face it...they and their clients truly are in the hunt for just
"bone and hide".....Trophy = Dollars$$.....not sustenance by any real means...
And, I'm still a bit pissed at the "allocation outcome....actually a lot pissed...
BUT..
We sort need the GO's....
We need the support of hunters to protect "our rights to hunt in the future"......WHY.....
Because they have a "Lobbyist Group" and are supported by many "Rich People" throughout the planet who don't want to lose their right to hunt "trophies in BC"
It's that money that will help us...SINCE...We don't have any ourselves or not funded for "Resident Hunters of BC".

HERE'S THE KICKER!!!! however.....

It's basically (IMO) because of GO's, that we Resident Hunters will slowly loss our rights to hunt.....
What do I mean (I can see the shit storm coming on this statement...but hey... it's a forum to speak opinion...respectfully)
Why....well, firstly....the loss of tags from the new allocation is a no-brainer...loss for BC Residents.
But, because GO's and their clients "truly hunt for trophy game, not meat", we sustenance hunters are thrown into the
same "melting pot by the public"....just like many people say "hunter illegally kills something"....but that is not a hunter...
that is called a poacher...but, we are still looked at by the general public as the same thing...we are end up being
"grouped together"!!!
Thing is....Resident Hunters "Intent/Reason To Hunt" is "totally different"!, then either GO/Client or Poacher.

We really should be "moving some big steps back from GO's"....way back....even beyond the shadows!!

Where we should be aligning ourselves is with the FN (yes...I just said that...)
At least they, FN, like us, hunt for Traditional Sustenance Reasons for most.
Also....they seem to have a pretty good "political force behind them" which make them a "Powerful Lobbyist".
And you know they aren't about to give up hunting for a camera.....not really anyways....they will just add the
"power of the camera dollar" to the inventory of rights they had...
And honestly, FN should pay attention to what I am trying to say here....yes...they don't need us right now....their doing
way better then I would have ever imagined as a youngster in/with Provincial/Federal government support and rights.
But, if Resident Hunters lose the right to hunt one day down the road........then they are next.....the snowball will increase
because residents, after losing their rights to hunt will then just say.. "if I can't he cant", and just join in the protest...
hard to believe...but that's how peoples mentalities roll when that kind of stuff takes effect.
So....what is making us Resident Hunters so "Needy"....simple....
We do not have an "True Sustenance Hunters Organization"...at least nothing I have seen so far.
GO's have tons of Organization's...Worldwide and with money...but, as said they "truly align themselves in their actions to the term ...TROPHY....
And after that Allocation Fiasco, it became apperent to me that other organizations, right here in BC, don't really align
themselves with us Resident Hunters.
I remember the WSS saying they couldn't get themselves involved....why...in a nutshell, they are just an organization to
"Help Wild Sheep"... and for all the legalities...can not get involved....AND..THAT'S FAIR!!!...I get it.
Where I really had to open my eyes was with the BCWF....
(now, before I light this brick of dynamite....I just want to say...."I REALLLY APPRECIATE" the efforts of many of the BCWF
members, many who are on this site, and who take 1000's of hours, of THEIR TIME, to try and contribute efforts for
WILDLIFE IN BC...thanks guys!!....BUT...that's the KICKER.....WILDLIFE FEDERATION....again....WILDLIFE)
Growing up, I always saw the BCWF stickers on vehicles....and always just thought...BC HUNTER/ANGLER.....
YES .....NO....SOMEWHAT......NOT COMLETELY......
Can't recall how it was posted to me from some BCWF "higher up's" during that "allocation period etc".....and ya....
I did get some "pretty speedy PM's"....when I began to call out certain aspects that were confusing me....and was getting
me frustrated...until it finally materialized and became clear in front of my eyes......
BCWF isn't really a BC resident hunter Organization....not by how it is "set up" ( I would have to go thru archives to see how
it was explained ....but there was some sort of ...should I say.....issue)
Yes, BCWF is more than likely all "BC Resident Hunters"...and they try in the way they can...to support us hunters....for sure,
but they "Can't involve themselves in issues, from what I understand, like GO organizations can,
and the way they "Can Obtain Money" to Operate........LOBBY...or more important....LACK OF LOBBY.
(Now...I will be getting some email, and corrections for sure....because I am not probably presenting exactly right)
BUT...in a nutshell......We really don't have a Hunters Organization here in BC...possibly even Canada...not one that
can acquire money and operate in the same "powerful manner the GOABC" has been doing.
And yes....having some sort of "Resident Hunters of BC Organization" scares the BCWF future.....because money donated to them...will now go to another group...and yes...there are some people on the BCWF payroll who would not like to lose that.
But...I have said this before....we need an "Organization" that is truly "OURS".......
We need the Money and the "VOICE" to stand on our own 2 feet, to carry some "real political clout" (if that is still even posible), to be able to not have the doors closed and have us "shut out" of "Sustenance Hunting Decisions" in BC, like
allocations, and continued GBear Hunting for food and predator/Prey management...etc.
I think many of us Residents feel we have had a voice all these years.....BUT....really...we have been in the shadows...
with nothing to say!!....no voice....NOTHING with any BITE...
(what's my proof.....??....)
For the last 30 years, WE have had to SWALLOW MORE CLOSURES, SHORTER AND SHORTER SEASONS, LOST OPPURTUNITIES/ALLOCATIONS....AND NOW....BE THREATEND TO LOSE THE RIGHT TO HUNT...
SO...I ask.....with all these organizations....all those hours........
WHY IS "HUNTING IN BC BECOMING EXTINCT"???
(man do I wish my inbox was completely full...really....)
I just have had enough....
Yes I started the thread, and didn't think that I would get so frustrated at things from just a simple question or two....
But, before I die, I really want to know, that hunting is supported and understood by the majority of the people on this
planet, that our future kids etc get to enjoy all the things we know exist out there when we are out there hunting...what
we see etc...to have that same benfit...to know what it takes to maintain wildlife, and the habitat it needs to thrive and
continue etc.....

I really believe that other "user groups"...like mountain cyclist, recreational hikers, recreational photgrapers and camper's...
DO NOT completely get it!!...yes, the love the pristine environment, the fresh air...but they don't see what is required to
maintain it beyond that...they are not 100% in touch with those creatures as they think they are....
Unless you are "Part of the Cycle.....you are Part of the Problem"!!....I really do belive that..
A total ban on hunting is still a way off, but as some already worry...that if they lose "trophy Grizz Hunting".....
that next is...what...sheep...followed by what...no elk, so no longer hunt them......and next thing you know, hunting gone...
maybe that is a fear that is 100% relevant....
If you do believe that scenario is 100% True...that if Gbear Hunting is banned under the term "trophy".....you better
start worrying...because I believe that days is coming, maybe not yet....but soon....and because you believed that
once Grizz Hunt is banned, that all other hunting will follow and fall like the GBear...hunting will come to a close..one day...
SO.....What you wanna do about...what are you going to do...how to you start to change the tide???
Same as always, for the last 30 + years....isn't that what they call being "Stupid"....
Doing the same thing over and over again....getting the same results.... or worsening....yet waiting for it to get better???
(This is not about who we vote for....it's irrelevant.....it's...what are we going to do to stop hunting from being banned)???

[Buck]

There is a fairly new lobby group and this needs to go big if we are going to protect hunting and fishing for residents . http://residentpriority.ca/


(http://residentpriority.ca/)

[Fisher-Dude]

I think we all as hunters understand the "trophy hunt terminology" when it is used......
Sadly....Its not the best term or choice of word we as hunters came up with back in the day.
Unfortunately, "trophy" has stuck....and now with social internet media....has kinda created a problem ....
and created a quite "damaging" statement on a "stick board banner" for the anti's.

Either way "Trophy" is a word We understand fully n how it is used, and they understand how to use it "against us".


The NDP is using the word to vilify all hunters, IMO.

They're stirring up a hornet's nest that has been relatively dormant for many years.

We haven't had this much anti-hunting sentiment in the news for a long time. Think about who has been using the "trophy" term in their platform to make hunters look like blood-crazed lunatics with guns, ready to kill anything and everything, just to nail the head to the wall and brag about it.

People need to wake the eff up and see how Horgan and his crew are labelling us, and how they've put all hunting under the microscope as they vie for the ignorant urban vote.

Why do you think I'm so pissed off at them on these threads? The NDP's actions are divisive and bad for all hunting. The NDP tries to placate "food hunters" ("sustenance hunters" they say - which is first nations hunting in all the literature I've read) but your average Vancouver latte sipper doesn't make the distinction, and the NDP knows it.

All hunters, be they meat hunters, selective hunters, or trophy hunters have been harmed by the NDP's campaign. Think about the war we've found ourselves in the past few months - it has never been worse for us.

[Whonnock Boy]

I agree. They have dropped the ball in regards to supporting resident hunters leaving us with mixed messages. But let's not forget what the Liberals have instigated, especially the turmoil within our own people in the last few months.


Think about the war we've found ourselves in the past few months - it has never been worse for us.

[Wild one]

Bugle M In

Many share your frustrations and you do make some valid points

One thing to consider in your thoughts on GOs and non resident hunters. The allocation issue is BS I will agree right off the start. This has brought forth a lot of myths and bad blood. Reality is yes a portion of non residents are here to hunt a mature animal as there main goal. What many resident hunters ignore is there is also come to BC to experience hunting BC or a species not available to them other wise not just in search of a trophy. There actually a fair amount of American hunters who do bring the meat home not just the horns/rack/skull/hide. I personally know Americans that hunt Canada often and bring meat home. Some GOs even sell hunts that they would call a meat hunt often for moose. Yes trophy hunting exists with guided hunts but would call all non residents trophy hunters who don't take the meat. Reality is non residents are hunters just like the rest of us the difference is they are legally obligated to hire a guide in BC

Yes there is issues with the GO industry and as resident hunters we need to stand our ground to keep things honest. Ignoring GOs and non residents as possible allies is not wise. We also should not be painting them all with the same brush as they are a mixed group of hunters just like resident hunters

I agree working with FN is wise. Truth of the matter is with their treaty rights have a strong voice. They can/do impact resident hunter opurtunity on a greater level than GOs. The Reality of it is their hunting rights are protected through treaties on a level they have little fear of loosing their hunting rights. I am a believer that educating FN on wildlife issues and working towards gaining FN support can go along ways. This is a hard pill for many RH to swallow but fighting FN is not going to gain RHs ground

Like it or not RH would be wise to work with both the above user groups. They both have proven to be superior at lobbying govt in regards to wildlife. There is good and bad within both of them but the same can be said about RHs. I know for a fact just as we point fingers at them they point the finger at RHs. Want to see a powerful voice and get the most benefits for BCs wildlife figure out how to get the 3 main users of BCs wildlife to play nice in the sandbox. At this time it seems to me there is not enough agreed upon give intake instead it is a fight against each others agendas

Right now with all the bad blood between the 3 user groups the govt can pick and choose who the acknowledged and beat around the bush rather than be forced to address wildlife issues.

Myself and many others can see the benefit of an orginization that strictly represented RHs right

[Bugle M In]

I think, if my statement is right...correct me if I am wrong....but...the BCWF can not "Contribute to Political Parties"....
correct???....which in the end...we call "Lobbying".
The term "Trophy" is another thing we as all hunters need to change when talking....it's a term that is gong to kick us in
the future.
I know some GO's over the years, and some really are "good folk".....others not....but the same can be said about some
of my fellow residents out in the field...
FN does not really need us... true....but not wise to keep restricting us resident hunters access....but they do...
GO's (GOABC) better stop looking at it from just "their interests"....or again....they will be the big looser....1st!.

I know Heyman and his talk with me is to a point "hypocritical"....
He was in Forestry....a "Renewable Resource".....just like hunting any species is and continue to be....
If his , NDP's, only intent was to remove the "Trophy" aspect of a Grizz hunt, I can see that...ethically, I agree.
But remember...we are hunters...we don't need to know where to draw a "hardline".....

I told Him I would post his discussion online....
I wanted to him to take see what input we would have etc.

This discussion with him only came about because of 2 things...
1) I didn't want to Vote NDP because they were "against hunting"
and
2) the most important thing that I was really wanting to address to him...was the lack of funding that in the end was
creating a "loss of habitat", thus the "loss of wildlife #'s" and that "that was the BIG ISSUE" in BC right now as far as it
pertains to the "Enviroment Aspect of BC"...

As for the City Latte Sippers....I hear ya...
I live amongst them daily, and all those "Self Righteos City Cyclists"....

Funny how hunting/killing a Renewavble Resource is against all their ethics etc....
Yet.....the majority of these people are also "Pro Choice", as am I if asked....yet...funny how
Abortion is not killing....but a right, a womans choice ....but....something is being "killed off"....

It's a crazy world, and I understand why many just shut the lid on the laptop, and just want to forget and say...
"Gone Hunting".

But I hope this thread does open some eyes here and forces us hunters to see we really "lack input" at a
Political Level...

FD...I know you care a lot....you spend a lot of timing sharing your input...even if others don't always agree, but tleast
itgives other's the incentive to "think" it out, and public discussion is a great way to come up with new thoughta and
ideas etc...
Yes, the NDP have created a hornet's nest, and because they at a "big party" comparatively to the Greens, they and
their platform can cause some real concerns on "Hunting in BC"

But one thing....this isn't just an NDP thing.....I am sure there are many in the Liberal Party who also share the
same opinion..."To Ban Hunting" outright...
"Towing the Party Line" is the only thing stopping those individuals right now.....but....what happens when
towing that party line becomes too big a political hot potato....
How do we know that we are not also electing other "Anti's" in each of our ridings....?????????????????????????????

I still fear the day is coming, and it will be too late....
And really....what did we as hunter's do about it....???

Thanks all...

[Whonnock Boy]

The Provincial body? Correct. Some, or maybe all regional bodies can, as as they are non-charitable.


the BCWF can not "Contribute to Political Parties"....
correct???