Runt vs brute

[Wild one]

Well I am trying to pick which pup I should go for. I have the choice of either the runt or the brute of the litter. Talking to the breeder the runt is no doubt smaller than the rest and the brute is a giant for the breed. Both a healthy and the markings I am looking for.

It is a small munsterlander plans are mostly for ducks and the odd goose over water. Most goose hunting is field. Never trained a dog for pointing but plan on attempting. So upland maybe be a secondary. If the dog only retrieves I am happy enough

The dog will be an inside dog as well

[takla1]

Ive breed litters on and off for yrs {german shepards PB]and always gave the pick of the litter {healthiest } to friends or family.
The pick will be the one that figured out the tit contains the milk the fastest then dominates it on feedings.
Ive also seen runts of the litter that turned out as large as the pick of the litter later on down the road if size is part of your criteria .
have fun with your new dog
takla

[Wild one]

I see benefits to both smaller and a larger dog is part of the problem

In the past I have picked my pups by watching them but unfortunately the breeder is in Alberta so stuck going by pic's. I know the runt has been spoiled so should be a good people dog but the breed is known as a good family dog anyway.

Tough making the choice without being able to observe the pups in person

[nature girl]

Id go for the runt. As long as I can remember my grandpa has always called me a runt.

[Ghengis Khandrey]

I try to pick based on personality. Would you want a dog that fights you for dominance or a calmer more reserved dog?

[takla1]

I try to pick based on personality. Would you want a dog that fights you for dominance or a calmer more reserved dog?

you can solve the problem of a dominant dog thru obedience training and if a difficult prospect you can roll the dog

takla

[Wild one]

I try to pick based on personality. Would you want a dog that fights you for dominance or a calmer more reserved dog?

Never had issues with dominance not worried about it

[tadpole]

Smaler Munslander is a such a great breed to have, don't you mind to share the breeder contact?

[Wild one]

Smaler Munslander is a such a great breed to have, don't you mind to share the breeder contact?

There is 2 in Alberta the batch I am getting mine from are all spoken for. I know the other breeder is trying a pairing in May. I will bug my wife for contact info if you are interested

Odds are you will be on a waiting list but no deposit till pups are born

[IronNoggin]

... Talking to the breeder the runt is no doubt smaller than the rest and the brute is a giant for the breed.

You since nailed it. Damn hard call without witnessing their personalities hands on.
Either could be exactly what you are seeking.
In that situation I would ask for the breeder to ID the "Smartest" one of the litter - hopefully the one you ask is a hunter, and realizes where you're coming from...

Picking one from afar is something I've never done in person...


It is a small munsterlander plans are mostly for ducks and the odd goose over water. Most goose hunting is field. Never trained a dog for pointing but plan on attempting. So upland maybe be a secondary.

Excellent choice of breed for what you are seeking. My Parents have run gun dogs for damn near 70 years now. They love their slightly larger versions of the Münsterländer (or Großer Münsterländer). Love family & kids, and perform like champions in the field. Pa is running one these years mostly on pheasants, so I'd hazard a guess yours will likely do OK with upland game. All of his have excelled in that pursuit. He & Ma prefer female hunting dogs/pets, and they don't ever get near the 65 pound size or so of the larger males. More like 40 - 45. Even though they call this version "Greater" or "Larger".

BTW: I voted for the Brute, but Boogsy (150+ pounds now) made me do it... :lol:

Tadpole: A Very Serious Consideration is in order Buddy! :wink:

Cheers,
Nog

[Wild one]

Smaler Munslander is a such a great breed to have, don't you mind to share the breeder contact?

Pm sent your way

[Wild one]

You since nailed it. Damn hard call without witnessing their personalities hands on.
Either could be exactly what you are seeking.
In that situation I would ask for the breeder to ID the "Smartest" one of the litter - hopefully the one you ask is a hunter, and realizes where you're coming from...

Picking one from afar is something I've never done in person...



Excellent choice of breed for what you are seeking. My Parents have run gun dogs for damn near 70 years now. They love their slightly larger versions of the Münsterländer (or Großer Münsterländer). Love family & kids, and perform like champions in the field. Pa is running one these years mostly on pheasants, so I'd hazard a guess yours will likely do OK with upland game. All of his have excelled in that pursuit. He & Ma prefer female hunting dogs/pets, and they don't ever get near the 65 pound size or so of the larger males. More like 40 - 45. Even though they call this version "Greater" or "Larger".

BTW: I voted for the Brute, but Boogsy (150+ pounds now) made me do it... :lol:

Tadpole: A Very Serious Consideration is in order Buddy! :wink:

Cheers,
Nog

Not being able to observe pups first hand makes this choice tough for sure.

All my research and talking to people on this breed made me choose the small Munsterlander. Breeder is a hunter with healthy lines. It seems the small munsterlander breeders are trying to keep it as a hunting breed and highly encourage you hunt test your pup. They try to have pups going to hunting homes. I have faith worst case I end up with a good family dog that can bring back a duck or two lol

worst part is waiting till the 30th to get my pup. But than the hard work of a puppy starts lol

[Foxton Gundogs]

After a life time of breeding and training gundogs I can say this with out a doubt, it's not the size of the dog in the fight but the fight in the dog. My old girl was the runt, 12 seasons latter she is still retrieving. My young spaniel was the runt, 32 lbs and retrieves 10 lb Canadas. I pick the drive and attitude of the pup, you can't train drive. I find really big pups are more susceptible to joint problems than smaller lighter dogs, if you do get a big brute try not to let it get to heavy when it is developing. With a runt, they usually catch up to some extent by the time they finish growing so what you see isn't always what you get. It's a crap shoot either way, a trainer with far more knowledge than me once said. "The most optimistic thing a man will ever do is reach into a pile of squirming pups, pull one out and say, this will be my gundog". What ever you choose, enjoy the ride.

[J_T]

I've always taken the runt of the litter. I look for it when choosing my dog. (Golden Retriever) I've found them to be the most obedient and best companion. The one reason I might suggest taking the 'first born' would be if you are going to show it and breed it.

[Wild one]

For myself the pup is to be a companion for the family and hunting partner. Not worried about show or breeding but I may hunt test the pup. It seems those breeding munsterlanders all encourage the hunt test and trying to have results registered with the dog. I have little knowledge of this as my last dog and ones I grew up with were merely trained for personal needs.

I having been leaning towards the runt since the start for the potential of weight/joint issues that may come with a big brute a Foxton mentioned. I have not experienced having the runt or brute of the litter and know there is many myths and opinions on the two.

Have a bad habit of over thinking especially when lacking firsthand experience with something lol

[russm86]

My gf and I have 2 hounds, a treeing walker and a bluetick. The treeing walker (a bitch in both meanings, who is spayed) was the largest of the litter by a long shot, she ended up smaller than we expected on the smaller end for the breed, and has a very dominant/aggressive/entitled demeanor, she has to be reminded and put in her place regularly. The bluetick (an intact male) was on the small side in his litter, can't remember if he was the smallest runt or not but was small compared to most of the pups anyways, he is now the top end of the size for the breed and has one of the best attitudes/demeanors of any dogs we've owned. We have both had dogs in the past and both of these hounds were raised the same way, by the same people, in the same environment. The only difference is age, the female came first so was an only dog for about a year before we got the male, so take from that what you will.

[IronNoggin]

... it's not the size of the dog in the fight but the fight in the dog...

Gotta agree with that Foxy. Ma & Pa's latest was the second smallest in her litter.
She only grew up to a little less than 40 pounds, which for the "Greater" version is considered small.
Yet last fall she entered the Idaho Field Trials (note, she comes from Hunting, not Show nor Trial Bloodlines) and she placed FIRST!
Pretty good commentary on both her heredity and Pa's training efforts!

She'll enter that again this year, and perhaps wander on to the Western US Competitions.
In the mean time, she is one hell of a fantastic pointer and retriever, especially loving pheasants...
And a most excellent all round Family Companion!

Cheers,
Nog

[Wild one]

Got an email from the breeder and it sounds like the runt seems more driven to please people is showing good drive with the introduction training

Brute is still shows drive not as far along as the runt if I am understanding correct and more independent

I will be getting video of both soon

[russm86]

Got an email from the breeder and it sounds like the runt seems more driven to please people is showing good drive with the introduction training

Brute is still shows drive not as far along as the runt if I am understanding correct and more independent

I will be getting video of both soon

Similar to what I stated in my previous post. The female that was the large dominant pup is more "her way or the highway" she'll do as she pleases when she wants to. The male that was smaller as a pup is eager to please and listens responds to commands much better.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Got an email from the breeder and it sounds like the runt seems more driven to please people is showing good drive with the introduction training

Brute is still shows drive not as far along as the runt if I am understanding correct and more independent

I will be getting video of both soon

I think you have answered your own question right here.

[Wild one]

I think you have answered your own question right here.

I am thinking the runt is going to be my choice

[Ubertuber]

I've had both runts and brutes over the years. The runts tended to have a better demeanor as well as less hip and joint problems, they also lived longer than the brutes. That's my experience.

[willyqbc]

If you have a reputable breeder that you trust.....leave the choice up to them. If they know what you are looking for in a dog, they are much more experienced than you at recognizing the potential for the pup to be what you are looking for. The breeder we used for our lab "matches" the pups to the homes....you pick sex and color and tell her what you are looking for....beyond that, after 8 weeks working with them and observing them, she chooses which pup goes to which home. We coudn't be happier with our lab....she is exactly what we were looking for.... from stature to temperment, drive etc. We had even asked for a chocolate and she convinced us that there was a black in the litter she felt would be a much better fit for us! I'm sure glad we trusted her judgement!!!

Good luck with your pup!
Chris