Mountain Caribou, Canfor and Liberals

[Rob Chipman]

I'm not conversant enough with the ins and outs of this to make an educated statement, but on the surface it looks bad - Liberals allow Canfor to log habitat that's important to mountain caribou *and* Canfor contributes a bucket load of cash to the Liberals. Bad optics and probably bad practice (I know it's bad optics, but I don't know if I have enough information to really give it the thumbs down).

Also, I know that this is coming from DeSmog, and some people question it's perspective. Again, I don't have enough information to judge.

Anyway, here's the link:

https://www.desmog.ca/2017/04/03/b-c-liberals-grant-major-political-donor-permission-log-endangered-caribou-habitat

I'm interested in comments, especially from people who understand the issues more deeply than I do.

[IronNoggin]

KeRist!! Just WTF are they thinking?
Maybe it simply is they want to piss everyone that likes Nature, Wildlife etc off to the point of self annihilation??
They obviously have zero understanding of the ramifications if SARA steps up to bat!
Distinct likelihood of that with this type of behavior... :mad:

Bizarre move! :evil:

Sheesh!
Nog

[horshur]

None of it is designated critical caribou habitat. It is local residents stealing a page from enviros capitalizing on caribou for their NiMby designs. Many of the group are hypocrites being involved in forest industry for years and lifetimes. Same as your Bear tourism crowd they have commercial tourism operations. It is hard for individuals not to be self interested at their core just hiding behind a cause.The areas in question are in no way remote and unspoiled the planned blocks are adjacent to old blocks...it already has been logged years ago!!!

[Whonnock Boy]

At least our license fees are going back into habitat and wildlife. Government allows industry to destroy, we pay to repair. Sounds like a good deal.

"In 2011, the government amended the Revelstoke land us plan to allow timber companies to log a minimum of 6,000 hectares of old-growth forests to compensate for what they had lost to protection of caribou. Eventually, the recommended 34,000 hectares of provincially protected habitat that scientists deemed necessary to maintain and recover imperiled caribou declined to less than 4,000 hectares."


http://bctvkootenays.com/2017/01/20/ngos-outraged-as-bc-government-admits-culling-of-wolves-is-inhumane-yet-considers-cull-expansion/

http://sierraclub.bc.ca/ngos-outraged-bc-government-admits-culling-wolves-inhumane-yet-considers-cull-expansion/

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/02/01/news/bc-government-scientists-admit-wolf-cull-inhumane-then-propose-expand-it

[Whonnock Boy]

That may very well be true, but how long does it take for a forest to mature and be suitable Caribou habitat?


it already has been logged years ago!!!

[horshur]

It isn't very well may be true it is true...it been logged already. The infamous big bertha slash that so many tourist use the logging Rd to access the trophy meadows.

[Whonnock Boy]

I wasn't attempting to question the validity of your claim. Regardless, it's a fact that a contributing factor to the decline of mountain caribou is a decline in habitat.


It isn't very well may be true it is true...it been logged already. The infamous big bertha slash that so many tourist use the logging Rd to access the trophy meadows.

[horshur]

That may very well be true, but how long does it take for a forest to mature and be suitable Caribou habitat?
if you buy into global warming it may never be suitable again. The timber in question is dead pine leading..spruce balsam higher up with 50% balsam dead due to beetle...the balsam beetle attacks about 10% of stand yearly and hits 1% of spruce. Last I looked blowdown spruce balsam is not exactly good winter range for caribou. Succession stages are a real thing!

[Whonnock Boy]

Is logging it, or selective logging the solution? Solutions in general?


if you buy into global warming it may never be suitable again. The timber in question is dead pine leading..spruce balsam higher up with 50% balsam dead due to beetle...the balsam beetle attacks about 10% of stand yearly and hits 1% of spruce. Last I looked blowdown spruce balsam is not exactly good winter range for caribou. Succession stages are a real thing!

[Fisher-Dude]

I'm not conversant enough with the ins and outs of this to make an educated statement, but on the surface it looks bad - Liberals allow Canfor to log habitat that's important to mountain caribou *and* Canfor contributes a bucket load of cash to the Liberals.

Interesting. The article keyed on donations by Canfor and COFI to the Libs, but ignored donations to the NDP.

I wonder why? Wouldn't be a politically motivated, selectively chosen analysis, would it? :?



CANFOR CORP 2011/04/20 $50,000.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANFOR CORP 2011/08/19 $5,060.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANFOR CORP 2011/11/04 $1,185.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/06/19 $2,500.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/10/01 $3,500.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/11/19 $10,000.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/11/28 $5,000.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/12/11 $2,500.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/12/17 $2,500.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/12/18 $2,500.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/12/18 $2,500.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/12/19 $2,500.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/12/19 $2,500.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/12/20 $500.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/12/28 $2,500.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/12/28 $2,500.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2012/12/31 $2,500.00 2 DON KAYNE PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2015/02/19 $400.00 2 DAVID CALABRIGO PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2015/04/02 $600.00 2 DAVID CALABRIGO PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
CANADIAN FOREST PRODUCTS LTD 2015/11/04 $2,500.00 2 DAVID CALABRIGO PATRICK ELLIOT BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP


COUNCIL OF FOREST INDUSTRIES 2012/05/29 $300.00 2 JAMES GORMAN DOUGLAS ROUTLEDGE BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
COUNCIL OF FOREST INDUSTRIES 2012/09/27 $1,185.00 2 JAMES GORMAN DOUGLAS ROUTLEDGE BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
COUNCIL OF FOREST INDUSTRIES 2012/11/16 $10,000.00 2 JAMES GORMAN DOUGLAS ROUTLEDGE BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP
COUNCIL OF FOREST INDUSTRIES 2013/02/07 $2,500.00 5 JOHN ALLAN DOUGLAS ROUTLEDGE BC NDP POLITICAL PARTY BC NDP

[boxhitch]

Open for the month of April for comments

2017-03-31
joint Fed and Prov report
.........released today the final report from a jointly-conducted study on the protection of Southern Mountain Caribou and their habitat.The full report is available below and is open to public comment for a period of 30 days.
Consultation period: 2017-02-24 to 2017-03-26
http://www.registrelep-sararegistry.gc.ca/document/default_e.cfm?documentID=3106

[BgBlkDg]

The Caribou, are GONE, the predator cull MAY affect local Elk, Moose, and Mule Deer, positively and so I tend to support it.

However, a few words in that whole article told me all I need to know about it. The notorious Chris Darimont, a radical *anti*, a bullshit professor and total azzwipe is one *egspurt* quoted. Another, is the *Valhalla Wilderness* group of which I was an early member in the late 70s, they are also *anti* and I have not supported them for 35ish years.

Craig Pettit and I were friends and respected each others bush abilities and experience from autumn 1969, however, his comments here merely state the obvious. He actually worked in the logging that has so severely impacted the *Rangifer* habitat in the South Selkirks and we are ALL part of that as that is how locals made a living.

Craig, is among the best *mountain men* of my generation in the West Kootenays, but, I disagree with his stance as a spokes person for the VWS, as they are *antis* and mostly *damn Yankee dodgers* (draft dodgers), who often behave as though THEY owned the Slocan Valley and the Lardeau. Azzholes!

Then, we have the BCGEU, both Craig and I were members when in the BCFS and I HATE this group as I do ALL public sector unions, NDPers and so forth......DUE to their machinations concerning staffing of BCFS LOs back in the day. Craig and I used to discuss this quite often in the days of *Fat Little Dave* and the first Dipper government in BC.

Sooooo, kiddies, I would be a wee bit skeptical about this as much as I hate the BC Lieberals and all the corporate scum they represent. A NEW party is the answer in BC politics!

[Squirrelnuts]

The Caribou, are GONE, the predator cull MAY affect local Elk, Moose, and Mule Deer, positively and so I tend to support it.

However, a few words in that whole article told me all I need to know about it. The notorious Chris Darimont, a radical *anti*, a bullshit professor and total azzwipe is one *egspurt* quoted. Another, is the *Valhalla Wilderness* group of which I was an early member in the late 70s, they are also *anti* and I have not supported them for 35ish years.

Craig Pettit and I were friends and respected each others bush abilities and experience from autumn 1969, however, his comments here merely state the obvious. He actually worked in the logging that has so severely impacted the *Rangifer* habitat in the South Selkirks and we are ALL part of that as that is how locals made a living.

Craig, is among the best *mountain men* of my generation in the West Kootenays, but, I disagree with his stance as a spokes person for the VWS, as they are *antis* and mostly *damn Yankee dodgers* (draft dodgers), who often behave as though THEY owned the Slocan Valley and the Lardeau. Azzholes!

Then, we have the BCGEU, both Craig and I were members when in the BCFS and I HATE this group as I do ALL public sector unions, NDPers and so forth......DUE to their machinations concerning staffing of BCFS LOs back in the day. Craig and I used to discuss this quite often in the days of *Fat Little Dave* and the first Dipper government in BC.

Sooooo, kiddies, I would be a wee bit skeptical about this as much as I hate the BC Lieberals and all the corporate scum they represent. A NEW party is the answer in BC politics!

You forgot "conservation biologist and wolf expert Paul Paquet"... The go-to man for quotable bullshit.

Further reading: http://www.skeptic.com/podcasts/monstertalk/11/10/05/transcript/

[BgBlkDg]

Sorry, late at night and that immigrant jerkoff is someone whom I usually ignore.

I hate to see Craig Pettit involved to any degree with the scum mentioned in that rant. However, he has done exemplary work in preservation of wilderness areas and to halt the destruction of the remaining Kootenay wilderness by land raping loggers, miners and *developers*.

I am adamantly *conservation*, it is just these phonies like Paquet, I despise.

[butcher]

None of it is designated critical caribou habitat. It is local residents stealing a page from enviros capitalizing on caribou for their NiMby designs. Many of the group are hypocrites being involved in forest industry for years and lifetimes. Same as your Bear tourism crowd they have commercial tourism operations. It is hard for individuals not to be self interested at their core just hiding behind a cause.The areas in question are in no way remote and unspoiled the planned blocks are adjacent to old blocks...it already has been logged years ago!!!

THIS. Exactly this. Some former good mule deer range but never a caribou.

[BgBlkDg]

I am quite familiar with Val Geist, have had his books as they were published, have met him and told him of my huge admiration for him, his strict honestly and his work. He spent winters ALONE in NWBC in the early 60s, when I was in high school, and I did the same in that area, both of us in the bush, a decade later.

He is a hero of mine, a very nice guy and his scientific and conservation creds are beyond query. I am grateful to you for posting this commentary and, IMHO, much the same applies to certain *Grizzly experts*, their academic honorifics notwithstanding.

If, we had Dr. Val running BCs environmental management, with appropriate funding, our problems would be resolved.

[MattB]

Horshur is correct. None of the habitat that is planned to be harvested is designated as critical habitat for caribou. It's type II matrix habitat which means predators should be managed and occurs directly adjacent to Wells gray...in which wolves are not managed. Maybe they should start managing wolves there to match the Type II matrix habitat requirements.

[bearvalley]

Horshur is correct. None of the habitat that is planned to be harvested is designated as critical habitat for caribou. It's type II matrix habitat which means predators should be managed and occurs directly adjacent to Wells gray...in which wolves are not managed. Maybe they should start managing wolves there to match the Type II matrix habitat requirements.

You are right.
Just to the west of Wells Grey in the Quesnel Highlands a caribou recovery was attempted.
After the levers were pulled the caribou numbers were still in the tank.
When the project was peer reviewed by Bob Hayes one of his final comments was that the final step to a successful recovery was not taken.......the reduction of wolves.

[Whonnock Boy]

I understand the skepticism from many here considering the sources and their own personal knowledge on the subject, however I cannot throw their statements and claims completely out the window considering our governments track record on Mountain Caribou. I have no doubt that there is some truth hiding within, that there is some negligence on behalf of government, as well as some embellishment from the "anti" side. Let's see it for what it is, a complete mess.

[Citori54]

I'm not conversant enough with the ins and outs of this to make an educated statement, but on the surface it looks bad - Liberals allow Canfor to log habitat that's important to mountain caribou *and* Canfor contributes a bucket load of cash to the Liberals. Bad optics and probably bad practice (I know it's bad optics, but I don't know if I have enough information to really give it the thumbs down).

Also, I know that this is coming from DeSmog, and some people question it's perspective. Again, I don't have enough information to judge.

Anyway, here's the link:

https://www.desmog.ca/2017/04/03/b-c-liberals-grant-major-political-donor-permission-log-endangered-caribou-habitat

I'm interested in comments, especially from people who understand the issues more deeply than I do.

Re: the concerns over donations- NDP gets buckets of cash from the unions especially public sector/teachers, and if they form government negotiate contracts and wages with those same unions that have donated.

[Fisher-Dude]

Re: the concerns over donations- NDP gets buckets of cash from the unions especially public sector/teachers, and if they form government negotiate contracts and wages with those same unions that have donated.

Oddly, the NDP cheerleaders seem fine with granting public cash to public sector unions (just look at the hundreds of millions the Glen Clark NDP sent the BCTF's way after a backroom deal in 1998, one that now costs us an extra $300 million per year), but seem upset that money made by free enterprise, private corporations in the private sector is donated to free enterprise parties.

You'd think they'd be more upset that taxpayers' money is involved the NDP's scheme than the private money by other parties, but they just don't seem to clue into it.