Please tell me this isn't the POACHER Brian Martin....

[RiverOtter]

https://s21.postimg.org/49po1mviv/IMG_2043.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/iswt31onn/)post image (https://postimage.org/)

I really hope this is a simple case of 2 VERY different people who coincidentally happen to share the exact name.

[butcher]

Same guy as before.

[elknut]

River Otter ..I'm in need of explanation re: the comment " Poacher "..What did he do ?...Dennis

[RiverOtter]

River Otter ..I'm in need of explanation re: the comment " Poacher "..What did he do ?...Dennis

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2145566/page/1

This is the best I could find for now. This was not his first conviction either.

[ajr5406]

Name is spelled differently though?

[elknut]

Thanks River Otter for the link...Didn't he used to guide out of Toad River also ..Anyway just seen him and another hunter doing a show for Best of the West and using their Gun and Huskama scope ..They were sheep hunting and also goat hunting. they killed two sheep and a goat ..The plane picked them up on a glacier field up high somewhere in region 6..I saw them cancel a sheep tag ..So very interesting on his bad behaviour ...Dennis

[RiverOtter]

ajr5406...I noticed that, hence my query. Wouldn't be the first time a press release confused Brian/Bryan/Bryon.

I'm really hoping they're 2 different people, as I can't see an organization as reputable as the WSSBC associating themselves in any form with a convicted poacher.

I'm sure someone here will have the answer.

[Rackmastr]

Yes, it's the same person.

[RiverOtter]

A bit more reading....And Asian Mountain Outfitters is directly linked with Canadian Mountain Outfitters(Owned by the Poacher Bryan/Brian)

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/archive/index.php/t-29569.html

[ajr5406]

A bit more reading....And Asian Mountain Outfitters is directly linked with Canadian Mountain Outfitters(Owned by the Poacher Bryan/Brian)

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/archive/index.php/t-29569.html

Thats a shame... WSSBC obviously didn't do their homework, or if they did, shame on them too.

[SR80]

kind of funny, sounds like quite a few guide outfitters get nabbed with poaching and breaking the laws. Heard this guy on a podcast, boy does he hate BC resident hunters.

[f350ps]

Thats a shame... WSSBC obviously didn't do their homework, or if they did, shame on them too.
WSS know exactly who this poacher is, they've been taking his money for many years! It's kind of comical when you look back at some of the old posts regarding the GOABC or anything about poachers and the most vocal are the same guys that are the first to buy their WSS tickets every year! Wouldn't surprise me to hear that one of these guys bought his hunt! K

[RiverOtter]

https://s29.postimg.org/knjhoepxz/IMG_2045.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/r18krnutv/)gif upload (https://postimage.org/)

Nice "Callauge".....

[Buck]

Yes very interesting we all know what happened the last time the BCWF collaborated with the GOABC .Considering that the GOABC has more influence with government than BC resident hunters i guess it makes sense that they would want to keep their friends close and there enemies even closer.Any one know how many WSSBC directors are members of the GOABC ? Maybe next years guest speaker could be Abe Dougan he's a hell of a sheep hunter.

[bearvalley]

I've got a couple of questions;
Was Bryan Martins hunt a donation to the WSSBC and the WSF to generate funds to go back into sheep?
Has anyone that is being critical of the man given the WSSBC and the WSF as generous of a donation.
Im sure there are some poachers and guys that have had wildlife charges contributing to this forum that are not outfitters.

[markathome]

Which podcast - I have to hear this... thanks!

[.264winmag]

I've got a couple of questions;
Was Bryan Martins hunt a donation to the WSSBC and the WSF to generate funds to go back into sheep?
Has anyone that is being critical of the man given the WSSBC and the WSF as generous of a donation.
Im sure there are some poachers and guys that have had wildlife charges contributing to this forum that are not outfitters.

So donations to a greasy foundation make it ok to bend the rules?
Spade is a Spade, giving a donation doesn't change the past.
Sounds like a classic case of greasing the wheels, create an image and make some alliances. Kind of like politics?

[markathome]

Bearvalley - you may want to edit your post. FYI: I have zero background or knowledge of Mr Martin and this forum is the first I'm learning of this situation - so let's take him or his history out of the question for arguments sake.

Your last two lines read like you're ok with wildlife infractions as long as they are justified with a financial contribution. That's something out of the Crusty Clark playbook. Maybe you should clarify your position, because it looks bad right now.




I've got a couple of questions;
Was Bryan Martins hunt a donation to the WSSBC and the WSF to generate funds to go back into sheep?
Has anyone that is being critical of the man given the WSSBC and the WSF as generous of a donation.
Im sure there are some poachers and guys that have had wildlife charges contributing to this forum that are not outfitters.

[markathome]

So donations to a greasy foundation make it ok to bend the rules?
Spade is a Spade, giving a donation doesn't change the past.
Sounds like a classic case of greasing the wheels, create an image and make some alliances. Kind of like politics?

^^^^ What .264 said.

[RiverOtter]

I've got a couple of questions;
Was Bryan Martins hunt a donation to the WSSBC and the WSF to generate funds to go back into sheep?
Has anyone that is being critical of the man given the WSSBC and the WSF as generous of a donation.
Im sure there are some poachers and guys that have had wildlife charges contributing to this forum that are not outfitters.

So if the guy living across the street from you steals from the guy living beside you, it's "okay", so long as he donates some of the "spoils" back to a "good" cause?

[.264winmag]

So if the guy living across the street from you steals from the guy living beside you, it's "okay", so long as he donates some of the "spoils" back to a "good" cause?

Ya, like Robin Hood HA. Or a Marvel villain superhero, 'Marvel Martin'...

[blueboy]

Life time member of the WSS it,s time to clean house and get rid of the old dogs and bring in some new blood that won,t put up with this BS

[bearvalley]

I've got a couple of questions;
Was Bryan Martins hunt a donation to the WSSBC and the WSF to generate funds to go back into sheep?
Has anyone that is being critical of the man given the WSSBC and the WSF as generous of a donation.
Im sure there are some poachers and guys that have had wildlife charges contributing to this forum that are not outfitters.


Bearvalley - you may want to edit your post. FYI: I have zero background or knowledge of Mr Martin and this forum is the first I'm learning of this situation - so let's take him or his history out of the question for arguments sake.

Your last two lines read like you're ok with wildlife infractions as long as they are justified with a financial contribution. That's something out of the Crusty Clark playbook. Maybe you should clarify your position, because it looks bad right now.

Lets be clear on one thing....I do not support anyone who wracks up wildlife infractions.
Bryan Martins past record of wildlife charges has been beat to death here and on other forums.
Im probably as aware or more aware of his history as any poster on here.

The OP posted a picture of a hunt being auctioned at the WSSBC fundraiser.
Usually these hunts that are to be auctioned are donated by the outfitter to generate funds to be used for the good of wildlife.
I recieved a PM that stated that the WSSBC purchased this hunt from Bryan Martin.
That completely changes the big picture as far as I'm concerned.

It seems that "hunting Saints" on HBC seem to get pretty righteous when an outfitter crosses the line and I agree an outfitter should know the rules better and keep his nose cleaner than the average resident hunter.
There are bad eggs in both camps....do I need to be clearer.

[Bear Chaser]

Well put bearvalley.

[RiverOtter]

How common is it for G/O's to be convicted of wildlife offences?
Most of their operations are far from the public eye and CO'S are too grossly underfunded to be babysitting.

Long way of saying, if Bryan was busted not once, but twice(that I'm aware of), how many other infractions did he get away with?

The guy is CULL, pure and simple.

[bearvalley]

How common is it for G/O's to be convicted of wildlife offences?
Most of their operations are far from the public eye and CO'S are too grossly underfunded to be babysitting.

Long way of saying, if Bryan was busted not once, but twice(that I'm aware of), how many other infractions did he get away with?

The guy is CULL, pure and simple.

RiverOtter, you seem to be the most vocal "Saint" of the pack in this thread so that's why I'm addressing this to you.
When it comes to wildlife offences my bet is that G/O outfitter convictions are equal or a smaller percentage proportionally to all offenders, it's just that the G/O is more in the publics scrutiny.
Ive probably watched more resident hunters unload their gear on the float dock than the average guy on this forum and I can tell you one thing...a CO would have a full time job some days right there.
In my personal opinion I think it's absolute bullshit when someone floats another mans name out on a public forum and bad mouths him.
Why don't you post yours and we can scrutinize your reputation.

[Buck]

It is important for all residents of BC to know what kind of characters are representing the various conservation organizations in BC .And the fact that the WSSBC leadership engages with convicted poachers speaks volumes .Clearly Time for a change in that organization .

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I guess it is time to BUCK up! there are a lot of good people helping keep sheep on the mountain thanks to the WSSBC.

[bearvalley]

I guess it is time to BUCK up! there are a lot of good people helping keep sheep on the mountain thanks to the WSSBC.
Haha....LMAO!
The biggest mouth pieces out there won't "BUCK"up a dime.
They'd rather just bitch and moan on here.
My hats off to the WSSBC and WSF for the work they do for sheep.

[Red_Mist]

If wssbc is aware of his past then it's very poor judgment.

[bighornbob]

It is important for all residents of BC to know what kind of characters are representing the various conservation organizations in BC .And the fact that the WSSBC leadership engages with convicted poachers speaks volumes .Clearly Time for a change in that organization .

So are you throwing your name into the hat for president or vice president to right the ship then???
Trust me on this one as I have been a member for over 20 years and have sat in on almost that many elections. There is no need for any type of hostile takeover or to load the election room with buddies to over throw the “old guard”.
Most of the “old guard” would be happy to hand over the keys to newer blood. The problem with this organization and many others run by dedicated volunteers is no one is willing to step up and do the job. It’s the same 5-6 people running the show because no one wants to step up. Every election there are people in the crowd (not just at the WSSBC but even at the local F&G club level) upset with how things are run. When it comes time to nominate people for the executive or directors, all you hear is crickets from the audience. Trust me, “the old guard” would love to sit back and have someone else run the show, but there are never any nominees so they VOLUNTEER to do it again.
So “BUCK’, why don’t you give us your name so I know who to nominate and who to vote for.

BHB

[Gateholio]

Poachers fined, Trustfund benefits
For Immediate Release

2008ENV0036-000478

April 4, 2008
Ministry of Environment

TWO MEN ORDERED TO PAY $8,750 FOR WILDLIFE OFFENCES

MACKENZIE � B.C. resident Bryan Martin and Alberta resident Mark Greenlee pleaded guilty to Wildlife Act offences in a Mackenzie courtroom last week.

Martin was charged with knowingly making a false statement to a conservation officer. Greenlee was charged with hunting big game while not a resident, knowingly making a false statement to a conservation officer and unlawful possession of wildlife.

Both men received fines and were ordered to pay penalties totalling $8,750. Greenlee was ordered to pay $3,750 and Martin was ordered to pay $5,000. The Habitat Conservation Trust Fund will receive $8,500 of the penalties paid.

In addition to the monetary penalties, Greenlee has been ordered not to hunt in B.C. for a period of two years and to forfeit the seized wildlife (a grizzly bear, mountain goat and a caribou).

This investigation resulted from an inspection on a guide outfitter camp located in northern B.C., near the Kemess mine. The Mackenzie Conservation Officer Service determined a number of documents had been altered with regard to the wildlife harvested.

The maximum penalty for a first offence conviction under the B.C. Wildlife Act is $50,000 or imprisonment for a term of six months, or both.

The B.C. government will introduce changes this spring to the Wildlife Act that will include tough new penalties to prevent and punish poaching and killing of endangered species

[Rackmastr]

So are you throwing your name into the hat for president or vice president to right the ship then???
Trust me on this one as I have been a member for over 20 years and have sat in on almost that many elections. There is no need for any type of hostile takeover or to load the election room with buddies to over throw the “old guard”.
Most of the “old guard” would be happy to hand over the keys to newer blood. The problem with this organization and many others run by dedicated volunteers is no one is willing to step up and do the job. It’s the same 5-6 people running the show because no one wants to step up. Every election there are people in the crowd (not just at the WSSBC but even at the local F&G club level) upset with how things are run. When it comes time to nominate people for the executive or directors, all you hear is crickets from the audience. Trust me, “the old guard” would love to sit back and have someone else run the show, but there are never any nominees so they VOLUNTEER to do it again.
So “BUCK’, why don’t you give us your name so I know who to nominate and who to vote for.

BHB

Truer words haven't been spoken. Very similar in a large number of outdoor groups sadly....

[f350ps]

RiverOtter, you seem to be the most vocal "Saint" of the pack in this thread so that's why I'm addressing this to you.
When it comes to wildlife offences my bet is that G/O outfitter convictions are equal or a smaller percentage proportionally to all offenders, it's just that the G/O is more in the publics scrutiny.
Ive probably watched more resident hunters unload their gear on the float dock than the average guy on this forum and I can tell you one thing...a CO would have a full time job some days right there.
In my personal opinion I think it's absolute bullshit when someone floats another mans name out on a public forum and bad mouths him.
Why don't you post yours and we can scrutinize your reputation.
He gave up his right to anonymity the minute he chose to poach! K

[wideopenthrottle]

http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/research-monitoring-reporting/reporting/environmental-enforcement-reporting/quarterly-environmental-enforcement-summary

you can look here for anyone that has been convicted....

[Stone Sheep Steve]

So are you throwing your name into the hat for president or vice president to right the ship then???
Trust me on this one as I have been a member for over 20 years and have sat in on almost that many elections. There is no need for any type of hostile takeover or to load the election room with buddies to over throw the “old guard”.
Most of the “old guard” would be happy to hand over the keys to newer blood. The problem with this organization and many others run by dedicated volunteers is no one is willing to step up and do the job. It’s the same 5-6 people running the show because no one wants to step up. Every election there are people in the crowd (not just at the WSSBC but even at the local F&G club level) upset with how things are run. When it comes time to nominate people for the executive or directors, all you hear is crickets from the audience. Trust me, “the old guard” would love to sit back and have someone else run the show, but there are never any nominees so they VOLUNTEER to do it again.
So “BUCK’, why don’t you give us your name so I know who to nominate and who to vote for.

BHB

Bang on the money Bob!

[Linksman313]

So donations to a greasy foundation make it ok to bend the rules?
Spade is a Spade, giving a donation doesn't change the past.
Sounds like a classic case of greasing the wheels, create an image and make some alliances. Kind of like politics?

Couldn't say it any better myself .264

[emerson]

Bang on the money Bob!
This true of any volunteer org. Living it myself.

[emerson]

Couldn't say it any better myself .264
This is also true. Strange bedfellows.

[KodiakHntr]

So are you throwing your name into the hat for president or vice president to right the ship then???
Trust me on this one as I have been a member for over 20 years and have sat in on almost that many elections. There is no need for any type of hostile takeover or to load the election room with buddies to over throw the “old guard”.
Most of the “old guard” would be happy to hand over the keys to newer blood. The problem with this organization and many others run by dedicated volunteers is no one is willing to step up and do the job. It’s the same 5-6 people running the show because no one wants to step up. Every election there are people in the crowd (not just at the WSSBC but even at the local F&G club level) upset with how things are run. When it comes time to nominate people for the executive or directors, all you hear is crickets from the audience. Trust me, “the old guard” would love to sit back and have someone else run the show, but there are never any nominees so they VOLUNTEER to do it again.
So “BUCK’, why don’t you give us your name so I know who to nominate and who to vote for.

BHB


Truer words haven't been spoken. Very similar in a large number of outdoor groups sadly....


Bang on the money Bob!


This true of any volunteer org. Living it myself.


I don't think RO's post has anything to do with volunteer organizational structure of membership.
I DO think it has to do with the fact that a convicted poacher donated a hunt (as per the first line, right in the hunt description, "donated by") to an organization that deals with sheep hunting. Probably the highest level of scrutiny for any group of hunters there is in BC.

Now personally, were I to bid and win such a hunt, I would DAMN sure want to know that the outfitter had previous convictions for wildlife violations!
Some guys take personal ethics and morality seriously. And I would bet a beer that folks like that would be pretty damn unhappy to find out after they'd paid good money for a hunt, that their outfitter plays fast and dirty with wildlife laws.

By simply allowing a convicted (not "alleged", not "under investigation", not "person of interest in this case", convicted) poacher to donate a hunt where you auction it in good faith to people that put their money exactly where their mouths are because they are passionate about the species and want to support wild sheep in BC, that simply leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths.....

People expect that the outfitters who have donated hunts to this organization for the sole purpose of raising money for wild sheep to be above reproach. They expect that the WSS has vetted those outfitters and not found anything to be lacking, and that a person can be confident that they are going on a top notch hunt, with individuals that have a top quality outfit.

But that's just my opinion. I guess some folks would rather just let themselves get blinded by the money.

[Walking Buffalo]

Without knowledge of the arrangements for this "donated" hunt.

Many if not most donated hunts put up for auction actually have a percentage or fixed amount of the sale price dedicated to be paid back to the donor.
I recall consulting with a chapter of the WSF as to which 'donated' hunts we were going to purchase for the auction....
Often these hunts raise surprisingly little money for the cause, most of the sale goes to the 'donor'.

IMO, these kind of donations can be more about marketing and absorbing the reputation of the charity as opposed to truly being about supporting the cause.

[RiverOtter]

When it comes to wildlife offences my bet is that G/O outfitter convictions are equal or a smaller percentage proportionally to all offenders, it's just that the G/O is more in the publics scrutiny.
The main issue here isn't with Bryan being a G/O that poached and enabled poaching by another party.
The biggest issue IMO, is a conservation organization allowing him to be associated with their cause. If convicted poachers like Bryan were shunned from the hunting community, regardless of their financial contribution, it would send a far more powerful message to others contemplating similar "activities". Much more so at least, than a "whopping" $5000 fine for a SECOND time offender. The fact that a conservation organization actually paid him money for his "product" is even more concerning.


Ive probably watched more resident hunters unload their gear on the float dock than the average guy on this forum and I can tell you one thing...a CO would have a full time job some days right there
Not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand, but I'm sure most here are in agreement that the CO service is grossly under funded. Does kinda drive home the point that it's harder for poachers to be caught with the state of the CO service, though Bryan still got nabbed twice. Unlucky???


In my personal opinion I think it's absolute bullshit when someone floats another mans name out on a public forum and bad mouths him.
If Bryan had only been alleged to have committed the offences, this thread would not even exist. Might suck for Bryan, but one of the consequences of committing crime, is that your name goes public when caught.


Why don't you post yours and we can scrutinize your reputation.
Many here know my name and can feel free to run it through the link provided a few posts back. If I have any convictions or fines under the wildlife act, I give my consent to them being hung here. Same goes criminal offences.

[northernbc]

if I was to end up on a hunt like this and were to find out my guide was a convicted poacher and had lied to co,s and falsified paperwork..ie not an honest mistake, I would be very upset.

[yama49]

https://s29.postimg.org/knjhoepxz/IMG_2045.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/r18krnutv/)gif upload (https://postimage.org/)

Nice "Callauge".....

Sooner we realize, we have to all work TOGETHER, the sooner bc, wildlife will benefit.

[KodiakHntr]

Sooner we realize, we have to all work TOGETHER, the sooner bc, wildlife will benefit.


Yup, resident hunters and poachers all have to pull together to get results for wildlife....

Pretty sure we tried working with the GOABC before too..... Just sayin'.

[yama49]

So donations to a greasy foundation make it ok to bend the rules?
Spade is a Spade, giving a donation doesn't change the past.
Sounds like a classic case of greasing the wheels, create an image and make some alliances. Kind of like politics?

Those are pretty strong Statement, what do you do to help wild sheep?

[yama49]

Yup, resident hunters and poachers all have to pull together to get results for wildlife....

Pretty sure we tried working with the GOABC before too..... Just sayin'.


Hey i agree, i said together and i agree we got the short end of the stick. My comments have nothing to do with poaching

[KodiakHntr]

Hey i agree, i said together and i agree we got the short end of the stick. My comments have nothing to do with poaching

You can see how your statement would be confusing, given the context of the conversation.
I mean, we have members here alluding to the possibility that the hunt in question was purchased for the event. In my opinion that makes it WORSE.
I mean, here we have the WSS not only providing advertising, but financially supporting a convicted poacher.
To me that says that the WSS condones his actions. Or at the very least, the members that suggested it as prize condone it.

Its not like Martin hasn't been discussed a bunch on cgn, 24, outdoorsmen, AND here. 0.1 seconds with the google'r will bring the discussions up.....

[yama49]

You can see how your statement would be confusing, given the context of the conversation.
I mean, we have members here alluding to the possibility that the hunt in question was purchased for the event. In my opinion that makes it WORSE.
I mean, here we have the WSS not only providing advertising, but financially supporting a convicted poacher.
To me that says that the WSS condones his actions. Or at the very least, the members that suggested it as prize condone it.

Its not like Martin hasn't been discussed a bunch on cgn, 24, outdoorsmen, AND here. 0.1 seconds with the google'r will bring the discussions up.....


First of all i quoted the picture RO posted, that pic had nothing to do with his OP.
Second to throw every wss volunteer under the bus, with a greasy foundation comment, is really sad!!

Jmo

[RiverOtter]

Sooner we realize, we have to all work TOGETHER, the sooner bc, wildlife will benefit.
Absolutely. The more critters that residents can help put on the hillsides, the more foreigners can come blast. The allotment switcharoo sent a loud and clear message for anyone with "doubts" about that.

Wonder who's gonna be around to try and fix it when all the animals and MONEY is gone? Foreigners??

[.264winmag]

Those are pretty strong Statement, what do you do to help wild sheep?

Buy tags, spend thousands on gear and trips, try to inform the naysayer non-hunters on the subject.
What the government does with the hundreds of thousands I pay in taxes is, for the most part, out of my hands?
As for the greasy part, as stated supporting such actions is confirmation enough?

On a side note, I have heard some pretty greasy stories regarding outfitter actions in the area I hunt wild sheep. If I could prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt you're thoughts on such outfitter/guides may be changed.

Not saying I have the answer, but the entire collaboration smells fishy...

[f350ps]

Sooner we realize, we have to all work TOGETHER, the sooner bc, wildlife will benefit.
I totally agree, the WSS is an excellent organization that does great things for our sheep, no doubt! I just find it hard to believe that they've been doing business with a well known convicted poacher for many years and nobody within the club has voiced an opinion regarding his reputation, it's very well documented! Is the list of reputable outfits so thin that they have to deal with guys like him?? K

[Dougielightning]

I don't think RO's post has anything to do with volunteer organizational structure of membership.
I DO think it has to do with the fact that a convicted poacher donated a hunt (as per the first line, right in the hunt description, "donated by") to an organization that deals with sheep hunting. Probably the highest level of scrutiny for any group of hunters there is in BC.

Now personally, were I to bid and win such a hunt, I would DAMN sure want to know that the outfitter had previous convictions for wildlife violations!
Some guys take personal ethics and morality seriously. And I would bet a beer that folks like that would be pretty damn unhappy to find out after they'd paid good money for a hunt, that their outfitter plays fast and dirty with wildlife laws.

By simply allowing a convicted (not "alleged", not "under investigation", not "person of interest in this case", convicted) poacher to donate a hunt where you auction it in good faith to people that put their money exactly where their mouths are because they are passionate about the species and want to support wild sheep in BC, that simply leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths.....

People expect that the outfitters who have donated hunts to this organization for the sole purpose of raising money for wild sheep to be above reproach. They expect that the WSS has vetted those outfitters and not found anything to be lacking, and that a person can be confident that they are going on a top notch hunt, with individuals that have a top quality outfit.

But that's just my opinion. I guess some folks would rather just let themselves get blinded by the money.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^ imo is how I feel as well

[bearvalley]

Absolutely. The more critters that residents can help put on the hillsides, the more foreigners can come blast. The allotment switcharoo sent a loud and clear message for anyone with "doubts" about that.

Wonder who's gonna be around to try and fix it when all the animals and MONEY is gone? Foreigners??

Are all wildlife enhancing projects in BC based on resident funding?

[bearvalley]

Those are pretty strong Statement, what do you do to help wild sheep?


Buy tags, spend thousands on gear and trips, try to inform the naysayer non-hunters on the subject.
What the government does with the hundreds of thousands I pay in taxes is, for the most part, out of my hands?

Looks to me like you're benefitting yourself.....you aren't doing a damn thing to help wild sheep.

[Gateholio]

The WSSOBC, BCWF, GOABC, WSF "Power of Collaboration" pic is a red herring in this discussion. It's obvious that all groups pictured there want "more sheep on the mountain" and working together towards this endeavor makes perfect sense. This should be a non - issue.


From all accounts, Bryan Martin is a very nice fellow and is an excellent hunter and guide. I also think that people deserve at least a second chance.

I'm also keenly aware that in most organizations, a few members do the lions share of the work.

The WSSoBC is not a resident hunters advocate group, it's a sheep enhancement organization. And they need to get funding from where they can, so teaming with outfitters that donate hunts at a reduced rate to the WSSoBC for an auction makes sense, as long as the WSSoBC makes money too.

And although the WSSoBC isn't a resident hunter advocacy group, it seems to me that the majority of members are indeed BC resident hunters. So this association with Bryan Martin certainly brings into question the optics of it all. Like it or not, "optics" are something to consider, if continuing support is desirable.

If the members of the organization don't like this association, they should make their opinions clear to the directors, and when forming their opinion, they should acknowledge that the WSSoBC not only looks to their own members for funding, but also to other non members, some of which hunt and some that do not.

I'm not picking sides in this, just making commentary- as I've been in similar situations where you have to weigh the value of one thing over the other.

[f350ps]

RiverOtter, you seem to be the most vocal "Saint" of the pack in this thread so that's why I'm addressing this to you.
When it comes to wildlife offences my bet is that G/O outfitter convictions are equal or a smaller percentage proportionally to all offenders, it's just that the G/O is more in the publics scrutiny.
Ive probably watched more resident hunters unload their gear on the float dock than the average guy on this forum and I can tell you one thing...a CO would have a full time job some days right there.
In my personal opinion I think it's absolute bullshit when someone floats another mans name out on a public forum and bad mouths him.
Why don't you post yours and we can scrutinize your reputation.
Bearvalley, you seem to be the most vocal "Defender of Poachers" of the pack in this thread so that's why I'm addressing this to you. Do you agree with the WSS doing business with a very well known convicted poacher, not just this year but for many years! Secondly, you seem to be well acquainted with this guy, why do you get so worked up about guys questioning his ethics, it doesn't look good on ya bud! And my last question, you wouldn't happen to be a director of the WSS would you? And my answer to part of your reply is, No, I don't support the WSS but I do support many other very good organizations, probably a lot of different ones than you but I can still voice my opinion on any one I wish! K

[.264winmag]

Looks to me like you're benefitting yourself.....you aren't doing a damn thing to help wild sheep.

Oh so I should stop hunting em then?
Here's some first hand knowledge of the happenings up northern bc:
Non-resident work acquaintance paid top dollar for a stone hunt in the exact area I hunt. Guide put him on a legal dink ram and harvested it. When they were done cleaning animal Buddy asked if they were gonna open up to remove t-loin? Guide says nah we never bother! Now any legal ram is a trophy in my book, and Buddy is after his grand slam so main mission accomplished. But, the guide knew he wanted a bigger ram so offered to take him on a private hunt and harvest one off his resident tag. Buddy respectfully and undoubtedly declined said offer. Little time rolls by, Buddy informs me outfitter had contacted him as he had excess un-filled tag(s) that needed to used up, or by my understanding quota renewal would be lowered. The hunts were offered at a huge discount, and buddy again declined offer.
You tell me if this is an isolated offer?
Could those extra tags not be auctioned off to generate more $ to keep more sheep on the mountain?
Would potential funds raised be more than I could ever imagine being able to donate to a foundation?
I'm no rocket surgeon, but I can smell fish.
I'll keep my hard earned $ for gunpowder and gas thank you very much.

[RiverOtter]

Are all wildlife enhancing projects in BC based on resident funding?
Nope. But it's BC residents and on a larger scale Canadians that will ultimately pay the price for any mismanagement. And lets be honest, if sheep weren't such a pricey commodity, they wouldn't receive even a fraction of the attention they currently do. Everyone is aware of the division of the stakeholders here, and a lot of that is perpetuated by a govt that really doesn't care about wildlife, short of collecting revenue from the exploitation of same. Nothing new there.

And just because there's no fan fare surrounding it, doesn't mean that residents just sit on their duff and only point fingers. Many residents partake in predator control(Trapping and/or Shooting) and property enhancement (removing understory, burning dead areas and planting wild grass/clover etc). I realize that is more beneficial to deer, elk and moose, as opposed to sheep, goats, caribou etc, but it's far from nothing.

[.264winmag]

You want more sheep on the mountain with the same quota on both sides res/non-res? Lower quota on both sides and cull wolves. Otherwise go after the GO's, after all they're the 'experts'...

[bearvalley]

Bearvalley, you seem to be the most vocal "Defender of Poachers" of the pack in this thread so that's why I'm addressing this to you. Do you agree with the WSS doing business with a very well known convicted poacher, not just this year but for many years! Secondly, you seem to be well acquainted with this guy, why do you get so worked up about guys questioning his ethics, it doesn't look good on ya bud! And my last question, you wouldn't happen to be a director of the WSS would you? And my answer to part of your reply is, No, I don't support the WSS but I do support many other very good organizations, probably a lot of different ones than you but I can still voice my opinion on any one I wish! K
f350ps, I don't defend poachers and I'm not a director of WSSBC. I have worked with and donated to the WSF.
That said, I'm sure that the directors of the WSSBC were fully aware of Bryan Martins past when they negotiated whatever deal was made to secure the hunt that was offered at auction.
I could care less about who questions Martins ethics but I do get a little pissed when the integrity of the WSSBC and that of the WSF is criticized.

[Gateholio]

I could care less about who questions Martins ethics but I do get a little pissed when the integrity of the WSSBC and that of the WSF is criticized.

I don't know if their integrity is being questioned as much as their judgement, and perhaps- their long term vision. Specifically and to the point- Does their association with Bryan Martin bring in more value than it gives up? Will this association help or hinder in the long run?

these are important questions for the membership to decide.

[f350ps]

f350ps, I don't defend poachers and I'm not a director of WSSBC. I have worked with and donated to the WSF.
That said, I'm sure that the directors of the WSSBC were fully aware of Bryan Martins past when they negotiated whatever deal was made to secure the hunt that was offered at auction.
I could care less about who questions Martins ethics but I do get a little pissed when the integrity of the WSSBC and that of the WSF is criticized.
You don't defend poachers yet you took issue with somebody posting his name on the www, sorry if I misunderstood your stance! Secondly you get a little pissed when the integrity of the WSSBC is brought into question which to me sounds like you're cool with them doing business with convicted poachers, no wonder I'm confused!! Time to stop commenting, you kind of tipped your hand in your first post! K

[bearvalley]

You want more sheep on the mountain with the same quota on both sides res/non-res? Lower quota on both sides and cull wolves. Otherwise go after the GO's, after all they're the 'experts'...
Seems to me you don't know much about allocation, quota and opportunity.
All sheep in BC are on quota to guide outfitters.
Many areas have a general open season on sheep for resident hunters.
Too acheive what you are suggesting..."Lower quota on both sides and cull wolves"...would first mean that all hunters would be bound within their allocation share....whatever that might be.
That would mean all resident sheep hunting oppurtunities would be allotted by LEH.
Do you really want to go there?

[bearvalley]

I don't know if their integrity is being questioned as much as their judgement, and perhaps- their long term vision. Specifically and to the point- Does their association with Bryan Martin bring in more value than it gives up? Will this association help or hinder in the long run?

these are important questions for the membership to decide.
Gatehouse, I do agree with your logic in this post and in your previous one.

[bearvalley]

Time to stop commenting, you kind of tipped your hand in your first post! K
Do you want to spell out in black & white what you're suggesting here?

[f350ps]

Do you want to spell out in black & white what you're suggesting here?
Gladly!! It's okay to be a poacher as long as you donate big to the WSSBC!! Sometimes it's better to just stop talking but something tells me you ain't done yet! K

[.264winmag]

Seems to me you don't know much about allocation, quota and opportunity.
All sheep in BC are on quota to guide outfitters.
Many areas have a general open season on sheep for resident hunters.
Too acheive what you are suggesting..."Lower quota on both sides and cull wolves"...would first mean that all hunters would be bound within their allocation share....whatever that might be.
That would mean all resident sheep hunting oppurtunities would be allotted by LEH.
Do you really want to go there?

I know how sheep are managed in terms of quota for GO's, and am familiar with the gos and leh areas. Packed 4 stones' out the mountains. LEH all around for residents perhaps not the best route but I'm not the expert to decide if that's needed. I'm thinking more along the lines of a 2 year wait after harvesting before you can punch another tag for gos is a viable option. I myself am not all that interested in packing out a ram myself anymore. Which means we take turns on who gets to squeeze the trigger every trip. I have 2 dynamite sheep hunting partners, so potentially could have a chance every 3 years. Still a fortunate opportunity in my books even just tagging along, and potentially more older class rams up for grabs!
But what resident wants to be curtailed on harvest if the GO's still have the same quota, or even raised as gos harvest potentially goes down?
I can't see them giving up their quota one bit. So I ask not what I am doing to keep sheep on the mountain, but what are the GO's willing to do to keep sheep on the mountain?
Both sides would have to sacrifice, I'm willing to do so, I have my doubts about the other side.

[f350ps]

Hopefully I get this in before you post again but I doubt it! I think most here agree that the WSSof BC is a first class organization that has unfortunately made some bad decisions! It's been pointed out here numerous times that this guy is bad news yet you for some strange reason want to defend this him. At the end of the day all you're doing is giving the WSS and yourself a bad name, your pal did that to himself long ago! K

[bearvalley]

I know how sheep are managed in terms of quota for GO's, and am familiar with the gos and leh areas. Packed 4 stones' out the mountains. LEH all around for residents perhaps not the best route but I'm not the expert to decide if that's needed. I'm thinking more along the lines of a 2 year wait after harvesting before you can punch another tag for gos is a viable option. I myself am not all that interested in packing out a ram myself anymore. Which means we take turns on who gets to squeeze the trigger every trip. I have 2 dynamite sheep hunting partners, so potentially could have a chance every 3 years. Still a fortunate opportunity in my books even just tagging along, and potentially more older class rams up for grabs!
But what resident wants to be curtailed on harvest if the GO's still have the same quota, or even raised as gos harvest potentially goes down?
I can't see them giving up their quota one bit. So I ask not what I am doing to keep sheep on the mountain, but what are the GO's willing to do to keep sheep on the mountain?
Both sides would have to sacrifice, I'm willing to do so, I have my doubts about the other side.

You would probably be surprised about how some outfitters feel about current sheep management and the options they have taken to make sure sheep stay on the mountains.
Some...not all.

[bearvalley]

Hopefully I get this in before you post again but I doubt it! I think most here agree that the WSSof BC is a first class organization that has unfortunately made some bad decisions! It's been pointed out here numerous times that this guy is bad news yet you for some strange reason want to defend this him. At the end of the day all you're doing is giving the WSS and yourself a bad name, your pal did that to himself long ago! K
You do seem to be a bit lacking in comprehension skills.
Maybe go back and re read my posts.
I would like you to point out where I defended Bryan Martin for being convicted of wildlife charges.
Furthermore point out where I have stated that Bryan Martin is a pal of mine.
Lets see the quotes where I made either of these statements.
In the alternative you had best accept the fact that you are merely full of shit!

[1/2 slam]

Sooooo if a person is convicted of some wildlife charges and pays whatever penalty is imposed by the courts they can't turn over a new leaf and donate to wildlife conservation?

[.264winmag]

You would probably be surprised about how some outfitters feel about current sheep management and the options they have taken to make sure sheep stay on the mountains.
Some...not all.

This is encouraging. I never meant to imply all GO's were out for only themselves. Like I said, they should be the experts on the subject.

[Gateholio]

Sooooo if a person is convicted of some wildlife charges and pays whatever penalty is imposed by the courts they can't turn over a new leaf and donate to wildlife conservation?

.
Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be a simple donation. It appears that the WSSoBC purchased a hunt and intend to auction it. This implies the WSSoBC is not concerned with his infractions and feels comfortable with him as a sponsor. Which is fine, that's a membership choice.

But again, the question is simple- is the membership of the WSSoBC okay with this and do they feel the value of this contribution outweighs the negative aspects that it brings to to the group? Long term, will this enhance fundraising or be detrimental ?

These are questions for the membership...

[GetLethal]

Sooooo if a person is convicted of some wildlife charges and pays whatever penalty is imposed by the courts they can't turn over a new leaf and donate to wildlife conservation?
Im nowhere near as educated or opinionated as some on the thread BUT, it would appear that this wasnt his first offence. I personally feel that any conservation group should have ZERO affiliation with a convicted poacher. If i had bought the hunt only to find out about his past practices I would be upset and very concerned about the legality of the hunt I purchased. I do understand people make mistakes and can change, but I also hold GO's to a higher standard and if he has indeed been caught multiple times I'd say he's gaming the system and deserves to be treated as such. If the WSS purchased the hunt from him to auction off I think that is a huge mistake on their part, I wouldnt be comfortable funding a group giving money to a poacher. Again, they should have ZERO affiliation with any convicted poachers.

[325]

I spent a year as a director with the WSSBC. They are not a "greasy" foundation. Each and every person on the board has their heart in the right place, with a passion for wildlife and conservation. They are hard working people who spend considerable time and energy to try and advocate for wild sheep. Also, keep in mind everyone on the board is a volunteer, who fit the WSSBC business within their already busy schedules with family, work, etc. To say the WSSBC is a "greasy" foundation is insulting. 264winmag, we all spend thousands on hunting gear, and I would be willing to bet many on here pay a lot more tax than you. That doesn't make you anything special.

[bigredchev]

Where do they go from here? It's quite the tarnishing label to be 'affiliated' with a scum bag?

[.264winmag]

I spent a year as a director with the WSSBC. They are not a "greasy" foundation. Each and every person on the board has their heart in the right place, with a passion for wildlife and conservation. They are hard working people who spend considerable time and energy to try and advocate for wild sheep. Also, keep in mind everyone on the board is a volunteer, who fit the WSSBC business within their already busy schedules with family, work, etc. To say the WSSBC is a "greasy" foundation is insulting. 264winmag, we all spend thousands on hunting gear, and I would be willing to bet I pay a lot more tax than you. That doesn't make you anything special.

Sorry if I offended you, or the volunteers. Perhaps in this case, guilty by association does not apply.
Happy for you that you make so much money.
Never claimed to be anything special.
Went to one of them sheep conventions in ktown, didn't feel like a fit in. Maybe cause I don't make enough $?
Someone calls me out on here yer gonna get it back is all. Perhaps I don't fit in here either. I cgaf.
Cheers

[325]

Sorry if I offended you, or the volunteers. Perhaps in this case, guilty by association does not apply.
Happy for you that you make so much money.
Never claimed to be anything special.
Went to one of them sheep conventions in ktown, didn't feel like a fit in. Maybe cause I don't make enough $?
Someone calls me out on here yer gonna get it back is all. Perhaps I don't fit in here either. I cgaf.
Cheers

Just a question, do you volunteer for any wildlife conservation organization??

[souwester]

Not condoning breaking the law but if Brian Martin can provide a legal and safe ibex hunt and on the other side of the world and it benefits sheep here in BC I would say good job!

If the "ball" really gets rolling in BC over the next few years against trophy hunters you goat and sheep hunters are going to be in the "crosshairs" real quick.
I personally would be way more concerned about making sure organizations like WSSBC exist than making a big deal about a possible bad judgement call on a fundraiser trip.

I just don't see what the big deal is considering this hunt has nothing but a positive outcome for BC.
No opportunities to hunt or animals themselves are being removed from the province.
Good Job WSSBC

[325]

One more thing, I wouldn't assume that the WSSBC directors knew anything of the poaching history of Brian Martin. Maybe they did, but I wouldn't assume it. Up until today, I'd never even heard of the guy. Again, keep in mind all the WSSBC directors are volunteers, with very busy lives outside of their WSSBC volunteer work. I doubt it even crossed their minds that they need to vet every single donor. It's a lot of work to organize and put on a convention. If any on here think it should be done better, the solution is simple: VOLUNTEER TO HELP!!

[emerson]

Only those who have a sheep conservation pedigree need apply to comment, eh? Sorry bud, I and ever other adult here are free to make value judgements about convicted poachers, or anyone else for that matter. Don't want to hear it, go to a private forum where dissenting points of view are blocked at the door.

[325]

Only those who have a sheep conservation pedigree need apply to comment, eh? Sorry bud, I and ever other adult here are free to make value judgements about convicted poachers, or anyone else for that matter. Don't want to hear it, go to a private forum where dissenting points of view are blocked at the door.

Is this directed towards me?? If so, I never said anyone was not free to make value judgments about convicted poachers.

[RiverOtter]

Not condoning breaking the law but if Brian Martin can provide a legal and safe ibex hunt and on the other side of the world and it benefits sheep here in BC I would say good job

We raise our kids to NOT Lie, NOT Steal, NOT Cheat and NOT break the law, then we endorse someone who embodies all those TRAITS and say it's OKAY because it created money for a good cause? Or it's OKAY because it's happening in someone else's backyard in a "far away place".

Ponder that for a minute, then go sit your kids down and explain that rationale to them!


If the "ball" really gets rolling in BC over the next few years against trophy hunters you goat and sheep hunters are going to be in the "crosshairs" real quick.
I personally would be way more concerned about making sure organizations like WSSBC exist than making a big deal about a possible bad judgement call on a fundraiser trip.

If supporting convicted poachers to raise money is the best we can do, then maybe we don't deserve to hunt sheep in BC.


I just don't see what the big deal is considering this hunt has nothing but a positive outcome for BC.
No opportunities to hunt or animals themselves are being removed from the province.
Good Job WSSBC

Bryan was stealing from BC residents, long before he set up shop overseas. What makes you think his ethics have changed? Or, I guess it doesn't matter, because it's another countries problem now?

[.264winmag]

Just a question, do you volunteer for any wildlife conservation organization??

No. I'm a horrible person sorry. I do help control the wildlife population, not sure if that counts for anything.

[325]

No. I'm a horrible person sorry. I do help control the wildlife population, not sure if that counts for anything.

Right now about the only mega fauna that require much "control" are wolves and bears. Everything else seems to need help.

You are probably a great person, but calling an organization "greasy" when I know how much thankless work the volunteers who try and manage it undertake, is not cool with me, especially if you are unwilling to step forward and volunteer yourself to better the organization with your knowledge and energy.

[.264winmag]

Poor choice of wording, yes. Seemed fitting, more so from the association with said GO.
And if/when I'm in a position to help such organization I would gladly offer. Just need to find some local work and a normal schedule...

[souwester]

We raise our kids to NOT Lie, NOT Steal, NOT Cheat and NOT break the law, then we endorse someone who embodies all those TRAITS and say it's OKAY because it created money for a good cause? Or it's OKAY because it's happening in someone else's backyard in a "far away place".

Ponder that for a minute, then go sit your kids down and explain that rationale to them!



If supporting convicted poachers to raise money is the best we can do, then maybe we don't deserve to hunt sheep in BC.



Bryan was stealing from BC residents, long before he set up shop overseas. What makes you think his ethics have changed? Or, I guess it doesn't matter, because it's another countries problem now?


I never had kids so there is no reason to question my parenting abilities,I don't have any.
If you don't want to hunt sheep anymore that's your decision.Too many hunters in the province anyways.

I didn't attend the convention but heard it was great.
Thanks for the effort WSSBC

[boxhitch]

.But again, the question is simple- is the membership of the WSSoBC okay with this and do they feel the value of this contribution outweighs the negative aspects that it brings to to the group? Long term, will this enhance fundraising or be detrimental ?

These are questions for the membership...true dat

et al, BM has been associated with the WSSoBC Convention for several years, has made several presentations on hunting and back-packing to a room full of knowledge-hungry sheep hunters, No complaints. Sessions went into over-time out in the halls with lots of Q&A , no complaints . Each year there has been an OPEN AGM for all members attending the convention, no complaints there.
This isn't the first hunt from BM to be auctioned, clearly it is an item of interest to someone in the crowd of 300+ members, or it wouldn't be on the slate at a fund-raiser.

Only from the anonymous key-board warriors of the intraweb world do issues like this arise. Real bravado, hooray

[.264winmag]

Well I thought it was an interesting tidbit, and clearly worth questioning if anyone cares about such things.
Not sure if you know Riverotter, but he's a str8 shooter with the best of intentions. Calls it how he sees it, nothin wrong with that.

[RiverOtter]

Thank you Boxhitch, for coming forward and summing it up.

I kinda figured that was the stance, based on the lack of input from the otherwise vocal conservationists that are usually quick to stand up against wrongs on this board; Real or perceived. I will admit too, I'm quite surprised and obviously a little disappointed that no one in the WSF or WSSoBC has voiced any concerns about the backgrounds of individuals that financial alliances are formed with. Maybe it's because they fear they'll be shunned by a board that is obviously okay with it or maybe they actually think it's a good policy?

I might just be an "anonymous key-board warrior", but there's a lot of others reading this thread and forming opinions based on both sides of this debate. I could be way off, but I don't think these pages are a very good sales pitch for garnering new members. If nothing else, maybe it'll spark some debate within the organization, concerning future decisions. At any rate I wish the organizations the best going forward.

[boxhitch]

Just saying a forum flambé may not be the best way to make change,........ but good info for those building their own 'wall of shame'.
If this generates a movement through the proper channels, all the better.
Not defending BM or the WSSoBC, just looking at the situation......as an outside observer

[Stone C. Killer]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

[bearvalley]

true dat

et al, BM has been associated with the WSSoBC Convention for several years, has made several presentations on hunting and back-packing to a room full of knowledge-hungry sheep hunters, No complaints. Sessions went into over-time out in the halls with lots of Q&A , no complaints . Each year there has been an OPEN AGM for all members attending the convention, no complaints there.
This isn't the first hunt from BM to be auctioned, clearly it is an item of interest to someone in the crowd of 300+ members, or it wouldn't be on the slate at a fund-raiser.

Only from the anonymous key-board warriors of the intraweb world do issues like this arise. Real bravado, hooray

Bill, you should have posted this a couple of days ago instead of letting the WSSBC get drug thru the ditch.

[Stone C. Killer]

Maybe instead of Riverotter posting threads like this the focus should be to make a law so that no one with a criminal record can make charitable donations or contribute back to society in any way?

[.264winmag]

I am officially done here

[wideopenthrottle]

Maybe instead of Riverotter posting threads like this the focus should be to make a law so that no one with a criminal record can make charitable donations or contribute back to society in any way?

who donated what in this? he sold it to WSSoBC....at a loss?...at cost? or at a profit? ....he is far from a saint or even reformed sinner in this from what I can see...

[f350ps]

Bill, you should have posted this a couple of days ago instead of letting the WSSBC get drug thru the ditch.
The WSSofBC has been drug through the ditch for years, it's fairly obvious they have no issues dealing with convicted poachers since they've been doing it for at least 7 years and it's been brought up several times!! For your reading pleasure BV I'll direct you to some history. In the search bar (top right) put in Bryan Martin then scroll to near the bottom of the page and open Sheep Banquet (from 2010) and enjoy, your welcome! K

[bearvalley]

The WSSofBC has been drug through the ditch for years, it's fairly obvious they have no issues dealing with convicted poachers since they've been doing it for at least 7 years and it's been brought up several times!! For your reading pleasure BV I'll direct you to some history. In the search bar (top right) put in Bryan Martin then scroll to near the bottom of the page and open Sheep Banquet (from 2010) and enjoy, your welcome! K
It seems a couple of posters on here are who want to keep the issue alive.
Its poor taste when the WSSBC continues to be drug thru the ditch by those few.
Its obvious that Martin does have support amongst mountain hunters.
I will say it clearly again "Bryan Martin is not my bud" but I would suggest to some of you anonymous key board pluckers that you should probably tap him on the shoulder, call him a scum piece of shit and get ready to get at it.
Fake names continually bad mouthing on the net is pretty chicken shit.

[GetLethal]

It seems a couple of posters on here are who want to keep the issue alive.
Its poor taste when the WSSBC continues to be drug thru the ditch by those few.
Its obvious that Martin does have support amongst mountain hunters.
I will say it clearly again "Bryan Martin is not my bud" but I would suggest to some of you anonymous key board pluckers that you should probably tap him on the shoulder, call him a scum piece of shit and get ready to get at it.
Fake names continually bad mouthing on the net is pretty chicken shit.
Great call! Rather then having some sort of "forum" to discuss the matter, which really isnt about BM himself but rather the societies affiliation with him, people should take it upon themselves to get into an altercation! Definitely not going to end up with an assault charge that way.

[bearvalley]

Great call! Rather then having some sort of "forum" to discuss the matter, which really isnt about BM himself but rather the societies affiliation with him, people should take it upon themselves to get into an altercation! Definitely not going to end up with an assault charge that way.

That's not really an option....guys talk tough forever on here with no consequences.
Just saying, it might take balls to go tap a guy on the shoulder and tell him to his face that he's "scum".
You must have missed the part where the "scum" labell was posted.
On the other hand even a man that sits to piss can anonymously bad mouth another person on the web.
This entire issue has been drug thru the ditch for way too long.
My suggestion is that the OP and a few of the other contributors to this thread get involved with the WSSBC and make the changes needed from within the organization....not sit back and stir up an outside erosion.

[boxhitch]

Bill, you should have posted this a couple of days ago instead of letting the WSSBC get drug thru the ditch.Nothing wrong with letting things run their course, HBC is boring without a little heat! )
Also its not my place to be making excuses for the WSSoBC, I was just fleshing things out so others can make informed opinions. If someone grabs this and runs it up the pole, more power to them.

[LBM]

Some interesting thoughts on this thread but a couple peoples responses on here have kind of shown were or were not to make a donation.

[bighornbob]

Great call! Rather then having some sort of "forum" to discuss the matter, which really isnt about BM himself but rather the societies affiliation with him, people should take it upon themselves to get into an altercation! Definitely not going to end up with an assault charge that way.

Forums are great places to discuss stuff but you get too many people jumping to conclusions or attacking others because they are behind a screen

even better then a forum is to email the WSS ( all the executives contact information is on the website) and ask them directly. Tell them you are not a fan of them using a hunt by Brian Martin. If you are a member tel them you won't be if they continue using Martin. If not a member tell them you won't be one as long as Martin is part of the auction. Tell them how you feel. That is the only way change will happen.

To to the original poster, I see you posted the picture at 7:30 of the auction poster. Did you speak to someone after or during the event about how you felt or to clarify the poster? Did you fill in the survey that was on the table? Have you contacted some one now after the event?

if if not I encourage you to let the board know how you feel.

[Linksman313]

After reviewing all the responses on this thread, I am glad the OP brought this subject to our communities attention. Despite all the paper tigers behind keyboards (which we all are) it definitely is worth some discussion and investigation without descending into the toilet bowl that destroys so many good threads here in HBC.

[Glassman]

Well said Kodiakhntr.

I agree with you. Why would any reputable organization even accept gifts/money or whatever from convicted felons/crooks/criminals? Unless, of course, they are just as crooked as the criminal.
Thats like the Catholic church accepting money from the mafia and then paying priests who molest little boys and then tell the public that they had no idea what was going on.
So,,,,,, what kind of an idiot would-ever want to volunteer to work for an organization like that.
You know what the say, "birds of a feather, flock together".
I'm not saying that the volunteers are bad guys but maybe they should be cautious of who they represent or volunteer for.

Just my opinion of course

[BChunter]

BM, BL and AD have been tarred and feathered, paid with lost reputations and paid the fines. I'll lay money most hunters are all not "squeaky-clean". Never used a barbed hook, didn't leave a wing on a game bird, brought out all the meat, etc. Squeeky clean ehhhhhh,,, duuuuu!
Most hunters and fishers get a ticket sooner or later for even a minor violation. I got a warning for not having my paper LEH authorization with me! Oh I'm so ashamed!
Besides, now finally, the CO's have a f---ing I-pad with them to check licences, tags and LEH! Maybe CO's should all have polygraphs in their trucks too!
At least these past violators try to contribute to an organization that helps wildlife recover, ask yourself, have you contributed? They are all still skilled hunters!

[boxhitch]

Sounds bitter Glassman. Is your hair parted in the middle ? ( I know , old joke, j/k ):)

[Red_Mist]

BM, BL and AD have been tarred and feathered, paid with lost reputations and paid the fines. I'll lay money most hunters are all not "squeaky-clean". Never used a barbed hook, didn't leave a wing on a game bird, brought out all the meat, etc. Squeeky clean ehhhhhh,,, duuuuu!
Most hunters and fishers get a ticket sooner or later for even a minor violation. I got a warning for not having my paper LEH authorization with me! Oh I'm so ashamed!
Besides, now finally, the CO's have a f---ing I-pad with them to check licences, tags and LEH! Maybe CO's should all have polygraphs in their trucks too!
At least these past violators try to contribute to an organization that helps wildlife recover, ask yourself, have you contributed? They are all still skilled hunters!

So sorry , just so i understand correctly you think that "most" of the 100K resident hunters in this province....meaning what ? 51, 000 of them have had wildlife violations? So the province is just full of poachers hey? That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard. You don't have to pay me in money a case of beer will be just fine thanks.

[300rum700]

If I have to live in a community with convicted child molesters and rapists left free to roam I think I'll be ok with the WSSOBC auctioning off a hunt HALFWAY AROUND THE ****ING WORLD! He paid his fines, he's righted his wrong and the government sees fit to allow him to keep his guiding license. Poacher this poacher that you guys are clowns.

[digger dogger]

So sorry , just so i understand correctly you think that "most" of the 100K resident hunters in this province....meaning what ? 51, 000 of them have had wildlife violations? So the province is just full of poachers hey? That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard. You don't have to pay me in money a case of beer will be just fine thanks.

"I think" what he is saying is this, forgot a migratory bird licence at home, while hunting fowl.
Forgot to cut antlered on his tag, on a buck, didn't leave a wing on a grouse, lost a grizz skull, etc.
You'd be surprised at how many hunters break the rules unknowingly.
Again, I said "I think" he means simple infractions.
Lots get tickets per year, LOTS!
This guy was obliviously shown the wrong way to do things, maybe he has grown up, sees thing differently now, and is helping out wildlife "sheep" in this instance.