Flying into lakes with outfitters there

[Steelpulse]

So I have not done a fly in before and this season I will be flying in to a lake where an outfitter has a cabin, they have a cabin on a few of the lakes in the zone and the zone is not huge

I spoke to the pilot and he was not super jazzed that I wanted to fly into a lake where an outfitter is set up on, my issue here is the land is not his and there aren't really that many options if you don't fly in, the pilot will fly me there though and we will land 5-6 km away at the other end of the lake and then we are hiking 10-20km away from the lake where the cabin is

obviously it's the bush the guide doesn't own the area but I do get that this is their business and they hunt the area a lots

my question is should I contact the guide out of good old Canadian courtesy and ask what his plans might be during my hunt time, if he's moose hunting great because I'm sheep hunting, but if he's sheep hunting I want to be away from Him so we aren't hunting the same range, I have no problem hunting west if they are east or vice versa there is lots of land to hunt so not overly concerned
Or should I just fly in and whatever I'm just over thinking the whole thing, just hunt and maybe we cross paths at some point and maybe we don't?

thanks

[Pemby_mess]

So I have not done a fly in before and this season I will be flying in to a lake where an outfitter has a cabin, they have a cabin on a few of the lakes in the zone and the zone is not huge

I spoke to the pilot and he was not super jazzed that I wanted to fly into a lake where an outfitter is set up on, my issue here is the land is not his and there aren't really that many options if you don't fly in, the pilot will fly me there though and we will land 5-6 km away at the other end of the lake and then we are hiking 10-20km away from the lake where the cabin is

obviously it's the bush the guide doesn't own the area but I do get that this is their business and they hunt the area a lots

my question is should I contact the guide out of good old Canadian courtesy and ask what his plans might be during my hunt time, if he's moose hunting great because I'm sheep hunting, but if he's sheep hunting I want to be away from Him so we aren't hunting the same range, I have no problem hunting west if they are east or vice versa there is lots of land to hunt so not overly concerned
Or should I just fly in and whatever I'm just over thinking the whole thing, just hunt and maybe we cross paths at some point and maybe we don't?

thanks

Contacting him prior, to make mutual mitigation plans, is probably a good idea. He's likely already agreed to work positively with you through his tenure management plan. He may even have some excellent ideas for how the two of you can deliberately avoid stepping on each other's toes.

[bighornbob]

Contacting him prior, to make mutual mitigation plans, is probably a good idea. He's likely already agreed to work positively with you through his tenure management plan. He may even have some excellent ideas for how the two of you can deliberately avoid stepping on each other's toes.


In theory this is a good idea. But I have known guides that have worked for outfitters and if they knew there was a resident in there they would pound that area hard to scoop the rams before residents. Or the outfitter will fly the area before you ever get there and scare all the sheep out of there to areas you wont be able to get to. Another buddy who was a local told me to lie to the pilot about what you were hunting. If you told the pilot you were going for sheep he most likely would tell the outfitter as they worked closely together and the valley would get buzzed by planes. If you said you were hunting moose then you got left alone as the outfitter did not care if you took a moose. Obviously if flying in, in a small plane, telling the pilot you are hoping to kill a moose and coming out in a Cessna is not feasible.

if it was me, I wouldn't tell the outfitter nothing. If you meet him in the hills, then you can ask where he's going etc. He already has the major advantage over you, and now you would be willing to give him the heads up where you are going.


BHB

[yama49]

I agree with every thing BHB said, go and enjoy yourself..

[Ron.C]

Had a similar situation in the area we backpack into. Gave the outfitter a courtesy call about 5 years back . I didn't want to mess with his hunts anymore than I wanted him to mess with mine.. Was not surprised when I was told his outfit hunts the entire area extensively and he is fully booked for the next 3 seasons.

I took that for what it was worth and went in anyway. Figured if he was booked that far in advance it must be good country. Or he was full of $&@+.
After 5 seasons of backpacking into this area, I only ever ran into a guide once. I was driving into the trailhead and came across a truck stuck on the road with a horse trailer in tow. I stopped and helped him out. Turns out it was one of the guides. We BS 'd for a bit and discovered we may be heading into the same lake. So we traded some info that was mutually beneficial. He told me once I was in there to drop by his camp and if I got an animal down he'd pack my game out on his horse for me as thanks for the help I gave him.

As it turns out, he never went into the area I was in. To date, only ever seen 1 other hunter in that area.

So I say make your plans and go.

[markathome]

Ron C - great post - thanks!

[Linksman313]

Good points on both sides of this question, whatever you decide best of luck on your hunt Steelpulse! Please be sure to post pics and your story of success here when you return.

[ryanb]

The guides motivation is #1 running a successful business. Competition with residents is counter to motivation #1. Any plans you negotiate with the outfitter beforehand are likely to be for his benefit, not yours. I think it's best to not call him beforehand and if there's an issue in the mountains, then a reasonable discussion between you and the guide is likely to work better for you.

[Sharpish]

It's likely that any information you give him will be used against you. Hopefully the pilot doesn't tip the outfitter off.

[butcher]

Find his horse trails and use them to go to his best areas and kill a ram. Make sure to pack the horns past the cabin on your way out.

[two-feet]

Let er rip. The land is held in trust by the crown for us, the residents. Pay tax, hunt land.

[Flinch]

I would say it depends on the intel you have on the outfitter.

I flew into one of the lakes in Kawdy Outfitters' territory. I sent them an email telling them I was going to be there and was willing to give a little elbow room...pretty much just a courtesy call. I had been told that Colin Niemeyer (the outfitter) was pretty reasonable to deal with. He certainly was. He appreciated the call and was very accommodating. It was a very positive experience. He gets a 'thumbs up' from me.

On the other hand there are jackasses out there too. I know that there are outfitters who will use that courtesy call against you; potentially ruining your hunt. I'm just not willing to paint them all with the same brush.

Get some info on the outfitter and make an informed decision...people can get weird when sheep are involved.

[guest]

I know of guides that have worked for a number of outfitters and they have all been told

Get to them accessible Rams first, at all cost get them before the Residents.

that said, I bet there are a few guys that will play the game with you ...... What BHB said is BANG ON !

[guest]

Find his horse trails and use them to go to his best areas and kill a ram. Make sure to pack the horns past the cabin on your way out.


Love this haha been there done that a few times ...... Hey it's right on the trail .... On the way out lol!

nice feeling actually. Specially after getting buzzed.

[Amphibious]

When i guided we always had a great relationship with the resident hunters in the areas. We towed them out of ditches, helped fix their trucks, even gave them ideas where to hunt. A job of a guide is to know the area better then anyone else. A few local hunters were never competition. Except that one time when we had a moose shot right in front of us by a group of locals 100yrds away on the otherside of some trees. Good for them. we went and found another.

Now we also knew the local CO very well, and if we caught residents littering, poaching, etc, we did our best to bring the law down on them.

Never understood all the Resident Vs. Outfitter bull$hit, but then I never guided sheep...

[Steelpulse]

This is all helpful for sure thanks for the responses and pm's

[srupp]

There are outstanding outfitters..great guides that play well with resident hunters..their clients spending $60,000 for a sheep don't really want to rub shoulders with residents.period.
Each outfitter is different.
I agree with BHB"...
Some guides will appreciate the heads up...others will use that info to screw you over..happy hunters are their best advertisement.
Even had guide trying to beat me to a sheep I was well into my final stalk on....
Pilots have become a real challenge..some flight companies also own guiding areas..however they CAN NOT legally refuse to fly you to any location except for safety reasons.
Most always the outfitters have flown the area repeatable know where the latest scoop on the rams are..
Normally avoid lakes that have cabins on it..there is a reason for the expendable of $$$$ on a lake..but some guides only hunt caribou..moose..
I have watched Chilcotin Hillbilly, Betty Frank's. .Clayton Mack, Russ Cummings etc help residents with truthful, helpful honest intel or help.but I also have watched resident hunters in Bettis cabin when we arrived at midnight with client being told to get the F" out !
Explain to them it was a private cabin..they were trespassing. .and they Would immediately remove themselves and their gear to the bunk house...for the night and be gone after breakfast.period!
Find where you want to go..and R range a flight as soon as you can, ask the pilot to inform you if other hunters are scheduled prior toor when you are wanting to go.
Then give her hell.
Cheers
Steven

[Stone Sheep Steve]

What bighornbob said. Do not mention sheep.

[Bugle M In]

BHB and Butcher....never had a reason to tell anybody anything....IT"S PUBLIC LAND!
Rarely have I met a great GO etc, most of them full of S***.
Ya, they talk all nice to a point up front, but will be everything but, when you walk away.
Go hunt, if the guy buzzes you....report it....so always have a camera/video close by.

[BCrams]

What bighornbob said. Do not mention sheep.

What he and BHB said.

[dino]

I would love to meet anyone who takes a flight into sheep country backpacks 10 to 20km to shoot a moose.
Don't call anyone before your sheep hunt.

[Krico]

I would never phone the outfitter and give him my hunt plans. They sure as eff won't tell you theirs.
But pretty easy for the pilot to know you're going for sheep when your flight in is booked for late July. Some areas are open for goat that early but many aren't open until Aug 15.
Easy to claim you're hunting for other species later in season though.

[4 point]

Used to fly in hunt in Reg 7 starting late 60ies to early 80ies. Guide in the area hated us. We were the only residents that evey went in there at that time. CO in Vancouver had told me about the area as he has worked in the field in north. Would run into the odd time a guide & hunters always on horses. Clients would most always want to talk. Guides were always pissed and wanted us out of "their" territory. We always walked the horse & game trails at lower elevations. Took lots of game over the years in beautiful country. My advise don't call the guide period!

[Bugle M In]

Used to fly in hunt in Reg 7 starting late 60ies to early 80ies. Guide in the area hated us. We were the only residents that evey went in there at that time. CO in Vancouver had told me about the area as he has worked in the field in north. Would run into the odd time a guide & hunters always on horses. Clients would most always want to talk. Guides were always pissed and wanted us out of "their" territory. We always walked the horse & game trails at lower elevations. Took lots of game over the years in beautiful country. My advise don't call the guide period!

So true about what you say about the "clients".
I have found that the Clients like to chat and are generally very nice.

Sometimes I think the clients are this way is because they know you are a "local", who is
just out there trying to hunt and not getting paid or make money from it.
I think they always feel a sense of being "bullshitted" to, by their GO's.
Meaning the GO's have "upsold" their hunting area, and that "big trophy creatures abound" in
there outfitting area.