$2000 Spotting Scope

[Ron.C]

Good day all,

I'm in the market for a new Spotting Scope. Have been getting by with a Vortex Nomad, but it's time to upgrade.

I have a 2k all in budget. Yes I'd like to increase that so I can get into a new Swarovski, but I've been given pretty clear direction from the boss and that's my $ limit if I want to be able to have enough extra for a good tripod.

I'm not in a rush to buy so have been keeping my eyes open for a used higher end scopes or tripods. So if anyone has anything that fits that bill they have been thinking on moving, drop me a pm.

But I also really like a couple other scopes in the price range.

1. Vortex Razor HD 22-48-65. Haven't had a chance to try the new model with the focus on the body. But I hear it's a better scope than its older model, and has a better rubberized coating.

2. Leupold GR 12x40-60 . Have tried the standard version and liked it. Haven't tried the HD. All my rifles are topped with Leupold scopes. Never had an issue with them so I have confidence in that brand. And I love the size and weight of these scopes. Just don't know if they are on par with the Razor?

Not interested in the big objective scopes as I do a fair amount of backpack hunting, so far for goats, often solo. A sheep hunt may be in my future. So portability is important.

Any advice!

Thanks

[GetLethal]

Not sure of your proximity to the states but cabelas stateside usually has some pretty sweet deals on factory refurb glass in their bargain cave. Might be a way to stretch the 2k a bit further.

[todbartell]

I;d go with that 65mm Razor. I've owned all 3 of the Razor models (11-33x50, 16-48x65, and 20-60x80) and they've been great. The new Razor 22-48 has very impressive optics

[Fisher-Dude]

Just watch on Gun Nutz or other forums and buy a used Swaro/Leica/Zeiss in your price range.

Dumping 2 grand on Chinese stuff = big regrets down the road, IMO.

There was a Swaro with a neoprene case for $1800 on Kootenay Hunters a couple of months ago. There are a couple of Leica Televids on Gun Nutz for $1775 - 2200 but I'd choose a different eyepiece than offered.

Deals are out there.

Keep your eyes open and you'll get the good stuff for a good price. Patience, it's a big purchase that you should do once, do right, and be outfitted for your lifetime.

[ljalberta]

http://www.brandonoptics.com/Meopta-MeoStar-S2-82-HD-Angled_p_1847.html

Outside purchasing used, I'd say take a look into the Cabela's Euro/Meopta S2. Same scope, different bodies. Probably the best bang for your buck in that price range. They consistently get great reviews.

[pappy]

I got my zeiss from a member on CGN. $1500 plus shipping. Just got to keep an eye on the equipment exchange.

[300rum700]

I wouldnt waste 2k on a vortex or the like, as others said watch the classifieds.

[Ron.C]

Any thoughts or opinions on a Zeiss Dialyt 18x45-60?

[goinghunting]

Like has been said, hold out for used alpha glass, leica,zeiss, swarovski or kowa.
I would try looking through them all first though, everyones eyes are different and while most reviews hale swarovski the king, my eyes prefer zeiss glass.

[GoatGuy]

buy a used swaro......

[eric]

^^^^^, what Goat Guy says.
I waited long enough and a sweet deal came along, right here through HBC.
Be patient, and something will show up for you

[srupp]

Hmmm the late David Marsh picked up a virtually unused Swarovski 80 on the kijiki"? For $800..it was a legit item not knock off but 80 was heavy!
Have owned 6 different spotting scopes..Swarovski 65? Unbeatable. ..although not fireproof..lol
Srupp

[goinghunting]

I dont want to hijack this thread but want to know for the ops sake how many of you swarovski guys have actually compared a swaro side by side to a leica apo or a zeiss diascope in varied conditions?

[Sharpish]

There's a razor HD for $1300 in Nelson and a Swarovski habicht in terrace for $1150 on kijiji. Don't know if I like the idea of the extendable ones but for $1150 it's a Swarovski.

[300rum700]

I dont want to hijack this thread but want to know for the ops sake how many of you swarovski guys have actually compared a swaro side by side to a leica apo or a zeiss diascope in varied conditions?

Nothing wrong with any of them but swaro atm/Ats 65 is pretty much the gold standard that everything else is judged against. And yes there are better but your going to pay.

[VLD43]

I dont want to hijack this thread but want to know for the ops sake how many of you swarovski guys have actually compared a swaro side by side to a leica apo or a zeiss diascope in varied conditions?

When I bought my Swaro 65 last year, I asked the dealer about Leica. He told me that although Leica was on the same level as Swaro, Leica's distribution network leaves a lot to be desired. He suggested the better choice would be the Swaro. The dealer explained to me, that he sells both brands, but unlike Leica, Swaro is big on Customer service, and is always ready to assist. Something to consider if you ever need service down the road, or want additional add ons, like camera adaptors or scope cases.

[srupp]

I dont want to hijack this thread but want to know for the ops sake how many of you swarovski guys have actually compared a swaro side by side to a leica apo or a zeiss diascope in varied conditions?

Yup...owned pretty much the whole list over the years..lots of clients have $$$$$ ..But not all, the west German Zeis" is pretty close. .
Sat on sheep hills picking apart California bighorn..while cheaper glass couldn't find the sheep..
The Spenses Sheep count is a great chance to learn from experienced glassers" and compare 2 or 3 different brands looking at the same sheep..more than once a guy has returned the next year with new Swaro glass.
Leica makes great Rangefinder.
West German Zeiss..close in optics but not quite..little bit of color distortion and not clear to the edges.
Yes sat on a hillside with 4 stone sheep on a ledge..the Zeiss were not as clear..IMO..
And sorry. ..those that insist Vortex etc all are just as good. .no..not close.
Buy once cry once..however enjoy a lifetime of crystal clear viewing..
My stone sheep..got to use the spotter on him..count rings..evaluate him completely in field conditions..100% satisfied with quality and clarity..
Rarely do I see much Zeiss..or Leica spotters. .Swaro..or Vortex..
Jim Shockey uses Leupold..cut they supply free gear and cash..lol captive sponsor..
Srupp

[Rattler]

I dont want to hijack this thread but want to know for the ops sake how many of you swarovski guys have actually compared a swaro side by side to a leica apo or a zeiss diascope in varied conditions?

Have compared both Zeiss and Swaro side by side. Found the Zeiss to have a blue tinge and my swaro to have a green tinge colour. Both are solid scopes.I really like my Swaro spotter...60x zoom
is awesome!

[goinghunting]

This is all good info and why I asked. I owned a 65mm swaro for years and loved it. I had bought it blindly like I feel most do. Last year I wanted to jump into bigger glass and was going to buy the atx85 but was convinced to try the leica 82 and zeiss 85 with it. I had them for a couple weeks and was surprised to end up liking the zeiss the best. They were all top notch but to my eyes was no contest zeiss. My second pick actually would have been the leica.

[Ron.C]

Any thoughts on the Zeiss Dialyt 18x45-60, or a Kowa. (664 or 773)?

[Spy]

Have you spoken to Bill T yet?

[goinghunting]

Any thoughts on the Zeiss Dialyt 18x45-60, or a Kowa. (664 or 773)?

Ive never looked through the zeiss dialyt or either of these kowas but did own a 883 kowa and it was fantastic. I believe the 773 is builtvwith the same flourite lenses but not the 664.

[the_longwalker]

I'm looking at the the Kowa 773 right now with the wide angle zoom lens. S&S Archery has a good review on it compared to a Swaro.

[btridge]

I use Swarovski Bino's, but as for my spotter, I use a Leupold 12x40x60 HD, I really like the clarity and weight, yes I have used swaro, lieca, and kowa, but I carry a Leupold HD.

[albravo2]

My own experience is that Swarovskis tend to hold their value better than anything else.

I lost a pair of Swaro binos and replaced them with top of the line Vortex. The swaros were definitely noticeably better, even though I wasn't comparing them side-by-side.

[The Hermit]

Ron

The Kowa 770 series is a world class scope easily comparable to the other big three but I can't get you into one within your budget. The 30+% US exchange is killing sales. If you can find a used one for $2000 buy it! Full pop retail these days is $3170. before tax.

The Kowa 663 Prominar is a step down but certainly better than the Leupold and probably as good as a Razor but a long way away from a Swarovision model. In your budget, the advise above to look and wait for a good used S/L/Z is probably pretty good.

Give me a call to chat anytime. I think I owe you lunch anyway ...

[Mtn Man]

Heck my vortex viper hd is a better spotter than my buddies zeiss, although not sure of the model but his is their entry level. Those that badmouth the vortex razor are those that own the 4000$ leica or swaros. I have looked through them all, you will not be disappointed with the new razor hd. They are worth the 2000 $ . Just my 2cents.

[Timberjack]

Ron. Lots of talk here in on which brand is better and which way you should go blah blah. Here's some useful info that was passed on to me when I was doing the same as you:
1. Do it right the first time. Don't worry so much about the cost.
2. Forget about what others say they like. It's your eyes so do what your eyes like best. So that means making the effort to get out and try as many as you can.
3. Spend the extra $$ to get a good case to protect your investment.
4. Be cognizant of he weight. They're not light and an 80mm lens may not be the right choice for mountain hunting... depending on your hunting style.
5. Lots of talk about the scope but people often forget about the eyepiece. Getting the right eyepiece for your application is almost as important as the scope itself. For example in the swarovski, the wide-angle 25-50 wide angle eyepiece is far superior for extended periods of glassing than the 20-60. People will often argue that the extra 10 power magnification on the top end is necessary, but you'll have to try it for yourself. The difference is remarkable. Try to test them side by side. The wide angle eyepiece on 25 power has a much larger field of view than the regular eyepiece on 20 power. The 20-60 feels like you're looking through a tunnel, comparatively.

Lastly, it would appear to me that your capped at $2000 for the scope, nobody said anything about the eyepiece, tripod and case..... haha. Good luck with your search.

TJ

[Ron.C]

Heck my vortex viper hd is a better spotter than my buddies zeiss, although not sure of the model but his is their entry level. Those that badmouth the vortex razor are those that own the 4000$ leica or swaros. I have looked through them all, you will not be disappointed with the new razor hd. They are worth the 2000 $ . Just my 2cents.

I've had a chance to use the viper when I looked at the new Razor HD. The Viper was definitely a step up from my Nomad. No question there. And I think the Viper is good glass for the money, but I the Razor HD is a big step up in clarity at higher magnification. That's what had me liking the Razor for the $. I was amazed at the clarity and easy of focus at all magnifications. But VERY clear at max magnification.
Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to compare the Razor with one of the top makers. Hoping to do that.

[Ron.C]

Lastly, it would appear to me that your capped at $2000 for the scope, nobody said anything about the eyepiece, tripod and case..... haha. Good luck with your search.

TJ

Ya, unfortunately the boss has put her foot down :roll:. That's my all in limit for the scope + eyepiece, case....... My hunting partner has a pretty decent tripod so that can wait.

[The Hermit]

5. Lots of talk about the scope but people often forget about the eyepiece. Getting the right eyepiece for your application is almost as important as the scope itself. For example in the swarovski, the wide-angle 25-50 wide angle eyepiece is far superior for extended periods of glassing than the 20-60. People will often argue that the extra 10 power magnification on the top end is necessary, but you'll have to try it for yourself. The difference is remarkable. Try to test them side by side. The wide angle eyepiece on 25 power has a much larger field of view than the regular eyepiece on 20 power. The 20-60 feels like you're looking through a tunnel, comparatively.
TJ

VERY good advice and I totally agree. If you are buying new get the 25-50 wide angle, or in Kowa's case the 25x60 wide angle. The biggest reason to look for the 770 series is the availability of the better eye piece over the 660 series. Its a huge difference.

[Mtn Man]

I did a side by side comparison of the big name spotters in real life condition, not set up in a store with maximum brightness. I was hard pressed to find any difference between the vortex razors and the other expensive brands not even in low light conditions and extremely bright and hot. I went with the viper only because at the time the razors only came in a 85mm which was far to large to be packing. I have upgraded to the razor 65mm now and yes it is one of the best out there and half the price of swaro and leica. If you have unlimited funds sure go with the swaros so everyone can go wow such a serious hunter with all that expensive equipment. He must be good. I felt sick even spending the money on the razors but they have been worth every penny.

[Ron.C]

I am not closing the door to used spotter. I will definitely look for something to come my way, but I can't wait forever. And I am leery at buying used optics. They are delicate instruments and who knows how the previous owner has treated them.
Probably why I have never purchased a used rifle scope despite seeing some " good deals".Always bought new. That said, there is a big price difference between a new Leupold VX3 CDs and a new Swarovski spotter with a wide angle eye piece.

I as well was very impressed with the Razor HD I looked through. I'm going to go and look again this weekend as well as looking through a Swarovski.

As far as the Vortex quality, well I think the reason you hear so much about the Vortex Warranty being used is because the make low end entry up to mid range stuff and have massive numbers of product out there in use.
The real question is, what percentage of each vortex product line is returned? How many of the defects are factory defects? What percentage is because of hard handling or misuse?
I have a vortex nomad spotter, two friends use vortex binos and a handful of rifle scopes. So far no issues with those products. But I don't expect the nomad spotter to perform like higher quality glass.

Look at the rifle scope threads. You have Bushnell fans and those that hate them. You have those"like myself" that swear by Leupold from positive experience with multiple products and some that say they are junk.

So, I would love it if a 65mm Swarovski or Kowa spotter with a wide angle eye piece, in excellent condition falls into my lap for under 2k within the time limit I'm willing to wait. But I don't believe that the higher end Vortex stuff is junk.

[GetLethal]

I did a side by side comparison of the big name spotters in real life condition, not set up in a store with maximum brightness. I was hard pressed to find any difference between the vortex razors and the other expensive brands not even in low light conditions and extremely bright and hot. I went with the viper only because at the time the razors only came in a 85mm which was far to large to be packing. I have upgraded to the razor 65mm now and yes it is one of the best out there and half the price of swaro and leica. If you have unlimited funds sure go with the swaros so everyone can go wow such a serious hunter with all that expensive equipment. He must be good. I felt sick even spending the money on the razors but they have been worth every penny.

Even when you see the shootouts/reviews of the super high end stuff from high end users (jay scott for example, big swaro guy) theyre talking 5 minutes difference at first and last light. If money was no object id buy the best money could get. Since im just a working class schmuck, i'll go with bang for buck.

[Ron.C]

Even when you see the shootouts/reviews of the super high end stuff from high end users (jay scott for example, big swaro guy) theyre talking 5 minutes difference at first and last light. If money was no object id buy the best money could get. Since im just a working class schmuck, i'll go with bang for buck. three years back, we were glassing a herd of around 20 cows and calf elk with two big bulls in tow. From our position, the elk were about 1500 meters and up a slide about 800 feet.was using my Vortex Nomad spotter. Around the corner of the skidder trail comes a truck. He was surprised to see us. A couple minutes of bs'ing he asked if we were going for the elk in the morning, hell ya we answered. At the range we were at in the last 10 minutes of light, we couldn't differentiate the two bulls from each other. This guy had a Swarovski on a window mount with a big objective lense. He looked at the elk and said there was big bull coming into the slide and he was to the left of the other bulls. I couldn't even see that bull out of my cheap spotter. The next morning the elk are still up there. Less than 10 minutes after legal light we saw all three bulls and could make out the big boy. We went for the elk but as things often go, never scored.

Point is, we never saw the best animal on the mountain that better glass was able to see during the last few minutes. If he would have been the only elk up there, we never would have seen it. Makes me wonder how many animals I never saw because my optics were not up to the task.

So, he's using a Swarovski with what I'm sure is an 85 mm obj lense. I'm using a $300 vortex nomad with a 60mm lense. Am I surprised. No. Will mid range spotter do better than a Swarovski, no, better than my nomad, yes.
Would a Leupold GR,vortex razor, kowa 663 have seen that bull? I'd assume probably, but not for as long as the big Swarovski did

[backcountry99]

three years back, we were glassing a herd of around 20 cows and calf elk with two big bulls in tow. From our position, the elk were about 1500 meters and up a slide about 800 feet.was using my Vortex Nomad spotter. Around the corner of the skidder trail comes a truck. He was surprised to see us. A couple minutes of bs'ing he asked if we were going for the elk in the morning, hell ya we answered. At the range we were at in the last 10 minutes of light, we couldn't differentiate the two bulls from each other. This guy had a Swarovski on a window mount with a big objective lense. He looked at the elk and said there was big bull coming into the slide and he was to the left of the other bulls. I couldn't even see that bull out of my cheap spotter. The next morning the elk are still up there. Less than 10 minutes after legal light we saw all three bulls and could make out the big boy. We went for the elk but as things often go, never scored.

Point is, we never saw the best animal on the mountain that better glass was able to see during the last few minutes. If he would have been the only elk up there, we never would have seen it. Makes me wonder how many animals I never saw because my optics were not up to the task.

So, he's using a Swarovski with what I'm sure is an 85 mm obj lense. I'm using a $300 vortex nomad with a 60mm lense. Am I surprised. No. Will mid range spotter do better than a Swarovski, no, better than my nomad, yes.
Would a Leupold GR,vortex razor, kowa 663 have seen that bull? I'd assume probably, but not for as long as the big Swarovski did

With optics you pay huge money for tiny gains in optical performance. The bigger objectives are hard to beat in low light situations but not only are they heavier you need a bigger more stable tripod as well.

Any of these 2000$ spotters are going to be heads and tails above your nomad so you can't go wrong with any of them. Keep us posted on what you get and how you like it.

[Weatherby Fan]

I've had a chance to use the viper when I looked at the new Razor HD. The Viper was definitely a step up from my Nomad. No question there. And I think the Viper is good glass for the money, but I the Razor HD is a big step up in clarity at higher magnification. That's what had me liking the Razor for the $. I was amazed at the clarity and easy of focus at all magnifications. But VERY clear at max magnification.
Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to compare the Razor with one of the top makers. Hoping to do that.

My Brother has the Vortex Viper HD 65mm and the Vortex Razor HD 65mm and I had recently bought an used but new Leica APO 25-50x65, so far we only compared them on his back deck around noon one day, I bought all 3 used, $500cdn for the Viper,$1000cdn for the Razor, 2200cdn for the Leica,

My brother see's very little difference optically in the Viper and Razor and says my Leica is no better than the Razor ? again this was off his back porch at noon, were going on a 16 day Fly-in this year so Ill see how things are then !!!

To me the Razor was better than the Viper but not by much optically, but the mechanics is where I noticed the biggest difference, the Razor was much better in function than the Viper and the Leica was that much better than the Razor in function, for my eyes the Razor has great optics but the Leica was sharper or clearer if you will but not by alot, where I did notice a bigger difference was at higher magnification.


For the money a Razor seems to be a good buy but if your going to risk your 14 day fly in on their optics ? that wonderful warranty won't do you any good up in the middle of nowhere nor will any warranty !!!, if your just a weekend warrior for the most part like myself I'm sure the Vortex Razor is fine as would be an used spotter of the big 4 ?

If I had the option I would buy a new Meopta over a Vortex Razor, I buy alot of optics and the Meopta glass is amazing.

[mulieaddiction]

I got the 16x48x65 razor for 2 years never even used it yet wondering how good it is myself lol

[mulieaddiction]

Heck my vortex viper hd is a better spotter than my buddies zeiss, although not sure of the model but his is their entry level. Those that badmouth the vortex razor are those that own the 4000$ leica or swaros. I have looked through them all, you will not be disappointed with the new razor hd. They are worth the 2000 $ . Just my 2cents.

Hey what zoom is your razor hd? Mine is 16x48x65 i bought mine 2 years ago never used it

[Ron.C]

Yesterday, I stopped at a local store and had a look at a Swarovski ATS with the 20-60 eyepiece. I also looked a Zeiss Dialyt.

The Swaro was nice, but couldn't really stretch it out as the parking lot I was in didn't allow for long views. I found the Zeiss seemed to have what felt like to me a much narrower field of view. But clear.

This morning I had the chance to head with a friend of a friend and try his Swarovski ST with the 20-60 x eyepiece and his old model Angled Vortex Razor and my Vortex Nomad . At 0730 this morning, weather was overcast and drizzly with a good breeze. To give a fair comparison, I tried all scopes at lowest, mid, and highest magnification

Unfortunately, there was no game to look at, but I focused on some of those white frames the tree planters use that were just on the treeline at a range of about 1200m.

Sawaro- could clearly see where there were cracks in the white frames and could see vegetation moving in the breeze just inside the treeline. Was clear at all magnifications.

With the Razor, I could see the cracks in the frame and could see the vegetation moving as well. Was clear at all magnifications

Nomad, ok to about 30x, couldn't focus clear enough to see any detail beyond 30x. Couldn't see much inside the treeline

So I picked another one of these frames that had to have been every bit of 2 k away. With the Swaro, it was quite clear but I had a hell of a time trying to get it to focus for me at max magnification. I backed off the magnification just a tad and was able to clearly focus. Then I backed it off to 48 and focused. Nice.

Went back to the razor, went straight to 48x. Was pretty clear. I had to play with the focus a bit more but was able to get a better image. Backed it off to med and min magnifications and had no issues. Nice image

Nomad was not allot of use at this range in this light. I would have been able to Id an elk, but no way I'd be counting points. Anything deer size would have been tough to see let alone judge.

With the Swaro or Razor , I would have been able to clearly identify big game animals at the ranges I tried. The Swaro seemed a tad brighter when looking into the treeline.

Final thoughts

1. Nomad is out of it class here, no shocker there.
2. I thought I would want and angled spotter but I still prefer the straight to the angled. I find them much easier to use, and more natural to get on target and scan.
3. I've tried a couple swaro's now, and a new model vortex razor and an old model razor. I prefer the older focus location and mechanics to the new type. Just seems, to me anyway, that I can be more finite when adjusting the old type.
4. Razor was noticeably heavier.
5. Last and most important image quality. The Swaro is definitely little brighter and a touch more crisp when viewing into the dark timber. But not by anywhere near as much as would have thought. I had to look back and forth between the two to see the difference. In the open, as light increased, this difference diminished.
I was looking at objects that were much smaller than say a deer or goat and I could identify details with both scopes that are what I consider more that adequate to judge the quality of a game animal.
6. Lastly, I really wish I could have had the Leupold GR available to compare in the field with these two scopes. When I compared it with a Razor, mind you in a parking lot mid day, any difference in image quality was definitely moot when you compare the size and weight of these two scopes.

The Swaro is the better scope, but the razor is pretty impressive.

[Fisher-Dude]

Makes me wonder how many animals I never saw because my optics were not up to the task.


Many.

Until I got all high end Leica and Swaro optics, I never knew just how much game was on the mountain.

Top end optics change the way you hunt and your success rate climbs dramatically.

[TARCHER]

Agreed FD. Between Leica, Zeiss and Swaro, 10-20 yrs later I love every second of looking thru these various optics. That said, I paid way less $ back in the day but they make good gear.

[GoatGuy]

FYI Ron, bought my swaro with case for $1000, buddy bought his for $2000, same scope/case.

Just keep your eyes peeled, you will find one.

[bridger]

Good day all,

I'm in the market for a new Spotting Scope. Have been getting by with a Vortex Nomad, but it's time to upgrade.

I have a 2k all in budget. Yes I'd like to increase that so I can get into a new Swarovski, but I've been given pretty clear direction from the boss and that's my $ limit if I want to be able to have enough extra for a good tripod.

I'm not in a rush to buy so have been keeping my eyes open for a used higher end scopes or tripods. So if anyone has anything that fits that bill they have been thinking on moving, drop me a pm.

But I also really like a couple other scopes in the price range.

1. Vortex Razor HD 22-48-65. Haven't had a chance to try the new model with the focus on the body. But I hear it's a better scope than its older model, and has a better rubberized coating.

2. Leupold GR 12x40-60 . Have tried the standard version and liked it. Haven't tried the HD. All my rifles are topped with Leupold scopes. Never had an issue with them so I have confidence in that brand. And I love the size and weight of these scopes. Just don't know if they are on par with the Razor?

Not interested in the big objective scopes as I do a fair amount of backpack hunting, so far for goats, often solo. A sheep hunt may be in my future. So portability is important.

Any advice!

Thanks

go to the website fsjnow click on general merchandise click on hunting. A swaro spotting scope on there in your price range.

[Sharpish]

also a vortex razor for $1200 in nelson and a swaro habicht for $1150 in terrace. both very good and i bet you could negotiate either for $1000 shipped. half your price point.

[Ron.C]

Well, had another chance to look at a Leupold GR spotter and the old model vortex Razor again. Unfortunately not side by side. But the vortex is in my opinion clear and brighter. Looked again through a Swarovski and a new vortex Razor. The Swarovski is a bit clearer but not by much.



So, this is the direction I went. I purchased a brand new in box old style straight body Vortex Razor HD 16-48-65 for just over 1k shipped. I like the straight body better because I spend allot of my time glassing high from vantage. And I like the the lower magnification this scope has over the new model on the bottom end is .

I'm going to take the $1000 I still have left and start saving toward a new pair of binoculars.