Klappan Blockade -Defense fund for Criminal Charges Against Hunter

[hogzotic]

My name is Mick McKee and on September 24, 2016, I was on my way to go moose hunting at the Klappan River, near Dease lake in Northern B.C., when I ran into an illegal road block on the Ealue lake road, manned by natives of the Tahltan Nation. I tried to negotiate my way thru the road block with no success. I then began dismantling the road block and used my chain saw to buck up the logs blocking the road. I then tried to drive around the road block , towing my 20' trailer and one of the natives moved in front of my truck, trying further to stop me. I continued to drive very slowly giving him time to move out of the way, and then I was able to continue on my way to the Klappan River. On October 4, 2016, the honourable Mr. Justice Macintosh issued an injunction and ordered the Police to remove the road block, citing the persons manning the road block were committing acts of Mischief and intimidation. No one manning the illegal road block has been charged with any offenses.

I have since been charged with "assault with a weapon " and "uttering threats to burn". I have to appear in Terrace Provincial court on March 7, 2017 to fix a date for trial. I expect the trial to go ahead in August 2017. I believe this case can have far reaching effects on resident B.C. hunters in the future and I am asking for help to fund my defense against what I view is a politically motivated prosecution.

I initially tried to set up a "go fund me" account, however it was shut down shortly after it went operational as "Gofundme" cannot be involved in raising money associated to criminal activities.
If you can donate to my defense, please forward an e=transfer to my email, hd09hogrider@gmail.com. I also have a web page at kermodeinvestigations.ca

Mick McKee
250-641-5809

Here is a link of the video showing the confrontation. (https://www.facebook.com/klabonakeepers/videos/1301072163244836/)https://www.facebook.com/klabonakeepers/videos/1301072163244836/


(https://www.facebook.com/klabonakeepers/videos/1301072163244836/)

[squamishhunter]

Sounds like bullshit charges. If it was assault with a weapon I think you'd be looking for bail money instead.

Hopefully you can come out ahead.

[604ksmith]

Difficult legal situation for sure.

Hopefully you have sound legal counsel, and something positive can come out of this. Please try to always take the high-road, like you mentioned this has far reaching impacts to many BC Hunters.

[Spy]

Thanks Mick for standing up for hunters, I will donate what I can. :-)

[Spy]

Scroll down on the page and watch the video ;-) Maybe the mods can make this thread a sticky.
https://www.facebook.com/klabonakeepers/videos/vb.654354367916622/1301072163244836/?type=2&theater

[hogzotic]

Yes, I agree totally, I tried negotiating to no avail, even tried to barter. There is a bottom line though, i cant stand by and watch people committing criminal acts to dominate me. I just wanted to go hunting, ....had looked forward to it ...and was not about to let a special interest group stop me from my lawful pursuits.

[hogzotic]

thanks Spy

[chutineshooter]

You are way out of line, you are the very reason that First Nations hate residents, have you seen the crap up and down the rivers and trails and the so called cashes that residents leave behind? Are you one if the hunters that goes in and shoots a moose takes the 4 quarters and leaves the rest? You are plain and simply being charged for an illegal activity and when the rest of the world gets into trouble we don't go begging for money.
There were moose hunters in that area last year useing a drone for spotting.... i am a resident hunter of bc and i question what you are making us all look like.

[scoutlt1]

You are way out of line, you are the very reason that First Nations hate residents, have you seen the crap up and down the rivers and trails and the so called cashes that residents leave behind? Are you one if the hunters that goes in and shoots a moose takes the 4 quarters and leaves the rest? You are plain and simply being charged for an illegal activity and when the rest of the world gets into trouble we don't go begging for money.
There were moose hunters in that area last year useing a drone for spotting.... i am a resident hunter of bc and i question what you are making us all look like.

Only a matter of time....

Stay strong Mick!

[palmer]

You are way out of line, you are the very reason that First Nations hate residents, have you seen the crap up and down the rivers and trails and the so called cashes that residents leave behind? Are you one if the hunters that goes in and shoots a moose takes the 4 quarters and leaves the rest? You are plain and simply being charged for an illegal activity and when the rest of the world gets into trouble we don't go begging for money.
There were moose hunters in that area last year useing a drone for spotting.... i am a resident hunter of bc and i question what you are making us all look like.

So are you in favour of blocking roads and keeping certain groups out ?

[chutineshooter]

No I am in favour of not assaulting anyone.

[Ohwildwon]

No I am in favour of not assaulting anyone.

So, what would you have done faced with that situation?

[RiverOtter]

No I am in favour of not assaulting anyone.

I watched the video and I didn't see any assault. What I did see was a really dumb guy trying to push a truck backwards down a public road, but failed.

It's high time we got some common sense back in this country, starting with our court system and police force and working down to Joe public...

[BgBlkDg]

You are way out of line, you are the very reason that First Nations hate residents, have you seen the crap up and down the rivers and trails and the so called cashes that residents leave behind? Are you one if the hunters that goes in and shoots a moose takes the 4 quarters and leaves the rest? You are plain and simply being charged for an illegal activity and when the rest of the world gets into trouble we don't go begging for money.
There were moose hunters in that area last year useing a drone for spotting.... i am a resident hunter of bc and i question what you are making us all look like.

YOU are the one here who is "out of line" and I consider Mick to be a hero.

You rave about mess, etc, well, the worst littering, garbage ridden camps I have EVER seen in 60+ years of active bush work and recreation have been Slavey and Cree camps in northern Alberta, when I was with the Alberta Forest Service.

I have seen Moose and other game and fish wasted by Indians a number of times and also been threatened by drunken Indians while at work, because I am a "whitey". As to "hate", well...........you must be a bigot!

BTW, Canada, is ONE nation, there are NO "fns" of any credibility. However, keep it up, the crunch is coming.

[hogzotic]

chutineshooter-I welcome your opinion but i do not agree with it. I keep a spotless camp, always have and make sure I eat what I harvest. I believe...the people committing the criminal acts are those blocking a public access road. We ALL have a right to hunt in a licensed open area. No I do not use a drone. If we all just turn around at these blockades, will more of them pop up blocking the resident hunter access to areas we like and are licensed to hunt?. Why do you feel I have to turn around at a blockade and go home? why?? I did not try to hurt anyone...I cut the logs, moved the other impediments out of my way and then drove around....drove around..the blockade. The native chap then moved directly into my path. I also moved very slowly to give him time to get out of the way and to insure I didnt injure anyone. Listen to the video you will hear my trailer breaks squealing. I believe resident hunters need to stand up to these situations and get them sorted out. This blockade has been off and on for years as I understand it. It is illegal to block public roads. period

[Good Old Outdoors]

I didn't see anything wrong there. Blown out of proportion as usual. I have strong ties to native communities through my family and believe in the legal rights of natives on their land but to block access to hunters including myself is downright wrong. As for hunters using drones in that area to spot animals, they should be charged not this guy. Smart hunters who follow the regulations and laws are not the problem, roadblocks by locals isn't the answer either. I just wish the police in the area would keep the roadblocks clear before they start.
I hope it never happens but if this continues, someone will go too far. Just my 2 cents.

[chutineshooter]

Well if you think the First Nation are going to get less rights your wrong, look at the resources the bands are getting control of. I think the best way to deal with a lot of the conflict would be to change the rules so you can only hunt in the management area that you live in.

[f350ps]

Any way you slice it blocking roads is illegal, you guys better get off your wallets and support Mick here, this could be the beginning to the end of hunting as we knew it! K

[goatdancer]

Well if you think the First Nation are going to get less rights your wrong, look at the resources the bands are getting control of. I think the best way to deal with a lot of the conflict would be to change the rules so you can only hunt in the management area that you live in.

You have got to be kidding.

[hogzotic]

Good old outdoors-You nailed it. The Police need to do their job and keep the road open. They have the authority and do not have to wait for an injunction. If they would do their job then a lot of this conflict would not happen. When I arrived and questioned the natives blockading the road they told me the police have already been there and did nothing. My court documents show that the police were made aware of the blockade on Sept 13th but were advised by higher ups to do nothing. NOTHING!!! I have since lodged a formal complaint against the Dease lake RCMP for failing to do their job and putting other people at risk by doing nothing. I hope to bring attention to those Senior RCMP managers so that they change their local policy about dealing with blockades. They will not show up for the resident hunter when he wants help but when a resident hunter goes thru the blockade, and the natives call them , they show right up. You see anything wrong with this picture??

[f350ps]

Well if you think the First Nation are going to get less rights your wrong, look at the resources the bands are getting control of. I think the best way to deal with a lot of the conflict would be to change the rules so you can only hunt in the management area that you live in.
Hahaha.....you just keep getting more bizarre every post! K

[RiverOtter]

I think the best way to deal with a lot of the conflict would be to change the rules so you can only hunt in the management area that you live in.

Classic. Why stop there, let's keep tax dollars local too, why should taxes from southern BC fund a welfare check in Dease?

[steve-r]

I think the best way to deal with a lot of the conflict would be to change the rules so you can only hunt in the management area that you live in.

Completely disagree. I am a resident of BC, not an MU. Try suggesting that rule to the FN couple recently found guilty of poaching outside their traditional territory.

[campking]

I am not a lawyer or a police officer nor a judge so I do not know what constitutes an assault but In my opinion I do not see an assault but that is up to the courts to decide. By your ignorant response I come to the conclusion you are in favour of this type of illegal activity and can only imagine what special interest group you represent! Within my group of hunting friends we all have said that if we were to come across that exact situation we would do exactly the same thing he did, I am really getting sick and tired of all this BS this province is for all to enjoy!

[genockous]

only Indians do
You are way out of line, you are the very reason that First Nations hate residents, have you seen the crap up and down the rivers and trails and the so called cashes that residents leave behind? Are you one if the hunters that goes in and shoots a moose takes the 4 quarters and leaves the rest? You are plain and simply being charged for an illegal activity and when the rest of the world gets into trouble we don't go begging for money.
There were moose hunters in that area last year useing a drone for spotting.... i am a resident hunter of bc and i question what you are making us all look like.

[Buck]

Well if you think the First Nation are going to get less rights your wrong, look at the resources the bands are getting control of. I think the best way to deal with a lot of the conflict would be to change the rules so you can only hunt in the management area that you live in.

Posted at 8:08 whew i just stopped laughing thanks for that LMAO

[Ourea]

This thread has lock written all over it so I will get a comment in while I can.

Chutineshooter, your comments come with an attitude of anger and frustration.
I think I understand why.
I take no offence regardless of my perception and personal views.

If FN wants to control natural resources where is the line in the sand?
Who has the right to control roads....build roadblocks.....where does it end?
Hiways....bridges.....airports.....Gov?

If someone was to set up a rd check going into Walmart and had a self perceived "right" to refuse access to certain users and could use whatever means with immunity for public safety......slippery slope.

All I care is about wildlife, it's future and sustainability.
Creating conflict and polarizing stakeholders just drives the wedge deeper.

Point....
I had a friend that had a shotgun pointed to his head trying to go to his cabin up Apex ski resort by a FN member at a FN rd check a number of yrs ago.
RCMP watched.
Took pictures and did nothing.
Where's the line?

[Surrey Boy]

I think the special status troll is trying to get the thread locked to silence the OP.

Mick McKee, you are a hero. I hope you see vindication.

[tuner]

You are way out of line, you are the very reason that First Nations hate residents, have you seen the crap up and down the rivers and trails and the so called cashes that residents leave behind? Are you one if the hunters that goes in and shoots a moose takes the 4 quarters and leaves the rest? You are plain and simply being charged for an illegal activity and when the rest of the world gets into trouble we don't go begging for money.
There were moose hunters in that area last year useing a drone for spotting.... i am a resident hunter of bc and i question what you are making us all look like.
i think he made BC hunters look pretty darn good actually,he proved that there are still people with principles who won't be intimidated or be bullied by group of scofflaw malcontents. He has shown more testicular fortitude than our government,law inforcement or the judiciary. He committed no crime, he was unlawfully prevented from pursuing his activities which were and are fully legal. I for one will make a donation to help Mick out defending himself against these ridiculous charges.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

You have got to be kidding.

This.

We all pay taxes to the province we live in. Wildlife in this province managed by our hunting license and tags dollars(less than that but that's a different discussion) .

[835]

You are way out of line, you are the very reason that First Nations hate residents, have you seen the crap up and down the rivers and trails and the so called cashes that residents leave behind? Are you one if the hunters that goes in and shoots a moose takes the 4 quarters and leaves the rest? You are plain and simply being charged for an illegal activity and when the rest of the world gets into trouble we don't go begging for money.
There were moose hunters in that area last year useing a drone for spotting.... i am a resident hunter of bc and i question what you are making us all look like.



You are the problem.

Hogzotic you did what every hunter that is not native is thinking needs to be done. The law seems not to be behind us one bit. This whole deal needs to stop and we are the only people who seem to care about our rights.
The Tatlan nation is taking my right to teach my daughter to hunt away.. because i am white. That is racist.
I am not racist i am a god father to one of my best friends kid who is NATIVE. My friends son e has every right to learm our way as my daughter does. Except his skin color makes him have greater rights. F uck that.

Sorry mods but its how i feel in edited.

[squamishhunter]

We could put road blocks at the Rez and keep them inside if they wanted.

[Good Old Outdoors]

Mick. If I wasn't working I would be there on the 7th. When it goes in your favour, and this is all settled I would like to buy you a beer. Keep fighting the good fight! It needs to be clear that as hunters and tax payers, that it is our right to hunt any land that falls within the legalities of our regulations. Period.
GOO

[Bugle M In]

Well if you think the First Nation are going to get less rights your wrong, look at the resources the bands are getting control of. I think the best way to deal with a lot of the conflict would be to change the rules so you can only hunt in the management area that you live in.
get outta here!.....absolutely ******ed statement!
FN gravy train will one day come to an end.
And ya, it will take someone or someone's to get hurt for that to start to happen.

[dino]

Where is Trump when you need him!

[MB_Boy]

You are way out of line, you are the very reason that First Nations hate residents, have you seen the crap up and down the rivers and trails and the so called cashes that residents leave behind? Are you one if the hunters that goes in and shoots a moose takes the 4 quarters and leaves the rest? You are plain and simply being charged for an illegal activity and when the rest of the world gets into trouble we don't go begging for money.
There were moose hunters in that area last year useing a drone for spotting.... i am a resident hunter of bc and i question what you are making us all look like.


Are you one of the 'native' hunters who uses modern methods to kill animals? Trucks? 4 wheelers? High powered rifles let alone spotlights to throw on the Dairy Queen swirl. Are you one of the hunters who goes in....shoots a cow moose...and leaves 3/4 and a fetus in July because "moose nose pate is a delicacy"? I saw it myself in July in Wells Gray.

Please....I await a rebuttal. You DO understand your rebuttal unless delivered by a young brave on horseback is being facilitated by amenities given to you by everyone else.

[dmaxtech]

Well if you think the First Nation are going to get less rights your wrong, look at the resources the bands are getting control of. I think the best way to deal with a lot of the conflict would be to change the rules so you can only hunt in the management area that you live in.

So you are saying I can only hunt blacktail and black bears? Give your head a shake. We are all residents of the same province.

[hogzotic]

Richard-thanks for the e-transfer but I could not get the password to work. You will have to cancel it and resend if you wish
Thanks so much
Mick

[hogzotic]

Thanks Good Old Outdoors-The March 7th court date is just to fix a date for trial. I'll be appearing in Terrace infront of the trial coordinator. Over 34.3 years of being a lawman I have a lot of experience in court. I'll be fine. Support at the trial in Dease lake will be appreciated. I won't have my own vehicle there as I think it will get vandalized while I'm in court. I expect to have to go thru a gauntlet of goons going in and out of court but I'll deal with that shit when it happens.

[souwester]

While I understand your frustration and sympathize with your actions Mick, from a total neutral standpoint its very unfortunate u allowed yourself to be filmed during that conversation on side of the road,I am sure the fact that u are a lawman of sorts and therefore should have a working knowledge of the law is going to be used heavily against you in court.Also I don't see how criticizing the Dease Lake RCMP is going to end up helping your cause in anyway.
I truly hope you are not considering representing yourself I don't think it would be wise at all for a whole bunch of reasons.
I hope things work out for you but I don't have high hopes.
Good luck

[kgs]

Well if you think the First Nation are going to get less rights your wrong, look at the resources the bands are getting control of. I think the best way to deal with a lot of the conflict would be to change the rules so you can only hunt in the management area that you live in.

WTF after reading this I now know you are not a real hunter because no real hunter would ever say such a stupid comment like that. Who are you working for what is your agenda. I will not read another comment you post ever you have nothing I want to hear.

[Wentrot]

It's about time someone stood up to the people running these road blocks. You have done us all a favor. Let's all do the same if we come across one

[snipersights]

Couple years ago me and my buddy and gf were hunting in cayacuse and nit nat, we went driving down a dead end road about 600 yards. When we came back up the road there were two 3' for trees across the road. I never did figure out how they did it but about ten minutes later a couple boys from the local reserve showed up demanding $100 to cut us out. Of course hunting we had hardly any cash so my buddy looks at him and says how bout $50 and a case of lucky.......,...... They actually agreed. About 20 minutes later they were back and cut us out. Just goes to show always be ready for anything.

[BgBlkDg]

I carry a chainsaw, soon to be two and extensive gear to deal with such issues in the bush. I have done this since spring, 1965 and will always be ready when exploring bush roads.

I would NEVER tolerate such behaviour and my truck is also equipped with a Benelli 14" Super Nova, retractable stock as one of my "bear defence" guns. I also always have 1-2 bolt action centerfire rifles and my old Marlin 336-.44M-10 shots, ghost and post sights and very smooth in feeding it's ten shots.

Now, would I defend myself and disabled wife, well, I most certainly will and am ready.

[RE1960]

Well if you think the First Nation are going to get less rights your wrong, look at the resources the bands are getting control of. I think the best way to deal with a lot of the conflict would be to change the rules so you can only hunt in the management area that you live in.


Unbelievably statement as others have said I'm a resident of B.C not of M.U. 1-1 get your head out of your ass!
If rcmp had done there job this would not be happening.

[snipersights]

The one issue though as we all know and I am status Metis and respect native rights before anyone craps on this post is this: we all know that when the rcmp arrests a native, or interrogates them about something they're doing, or tries to actually stop them from committing an offence like this all we ever see on the news is the edited footage shot by one of the other blockaders. You never see the guy getting in the cops face, or attacking the police, running away, pointing a gun, pulling a knife etc. All you ever see is the cops kneeling on some guys back face in the dirt and the headline (Are the RCMP going to far) or whatever. I have watched tons of videos of cops "beating people up" and very rarely do you see the whole story. Having said this I would also like to add the two best ass kickings I've ever taken were from RCMP in my youth and I very much deserved it. So yes I do know what it's like being "abused" by the police before anyone asks. And a friend of mine did film it once and we tried to have the cop disciplined with no luck. Looking back years later I realized yes he went over board but if I was a cop surrounded by drunk yahoo 18 year olds so would I. Man this got me fired up.

[campking]

The one issue though as we all know and I am status Metis and respect native rights before anyone craps on this post is this: we all know that when the rcmp arrests a native, or interrogates them about something they're doing, or tries to actually stop them from committing an offence like this all we ever see on the news is the edited footage shot by one of the other blockaders. You never see the guy getting in the cops face, or attacking the police, running away, pointing a gun, pulling a knife etc. All you ever see is the cops kneeling on some guys back face in the dirt and the headline (Are the RCMP going to far) or whatever. I have watched tons of videos of cops "beating people up" and very rarely do you see the whole story. Having said this I would also like to add the two best ass kickings I've ever taken were from RCMP in my youth and I very much deserved it. So yes I do know what it's like being "abused" by the police before anyone asks. And a friend of mine did film it once and we tried to have the cop disciplined with no luck. Looking back years later I realized yes he went over board but if I was a cop surrounded by drunk yahoo 18 year olds so would I. Man this got me fired up.
Snipersights, help me out here as I am not sure what you re getting at as most of what you are saying is about the RCMP as I would like your honest opinion of the actual incedent that happened at the road block as I don't think the RCMP were there but perhaps I am wrong?

[snipersights]

I'm saying unfortunately if the rcmp were to get involved as they should and stop this blockade some native would film it getting out of hand and send it to the media. Not defending the cops but it's hard for them to arrest any minority group without landing in the papers. IMO I think that's why they avoid issues like this most of the time. Mostly just a rant though lol I did post a few comments on the blockade Facebook page.

[campking]

I'm saying unfortunately if the rcmp were to get involved as they should and stop this blockade some native would film it getting out of hand and send it to the media. Not defending the cops but it's hard for them to arrest any minority group without landing in the papers. IMO I think that's why they avoid issues like this most of the time. Mostly just a rant though lol I did post a few comments on the blockade Facebook page.
Thanks for the clarification, I have always believed and have taught my children to respect the law but this one is really hard to explained to them, it will be really interesting how this all plays out in the end!

[hogzotic]

I certainly do not take any joy in bashing the RCMP. I was one for 20 years. But the local detachment, in my view, is dropping the ball here!!. They are playing the politics and standing by, not taking a side, until ordered by the court. That is throwing the resident hunter under the damn bus!!! The road block is illegal!! It did not just become illegal on Oct 4th when Judge Macintosh ordered the police to remove it. It was illegal on Sept 13th, when the police had knowledge of it's existence. If at that time the police had done their job and kept the public access road open then none of this controversy would have happened. I talked to one of the guys at the detachment who I have known for years and he told me the "higher ups" had given direction to leave it alone. That is why I took the time to lodge a formal complaint with the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission of the RCMP. So I know and respect the job that the RCMP do, but in this situation they need to step up to the plate and work for ALL CANADIANS!!

[Bugle M In]

Couple years ago me and my buddy and gf were hunting in cayacuse and nit nat, we went driving down a dead end road about 600 yards. When we came back up the road there were two 3' for trees across the road. I never did figure out how they did it but about ten minutes later a couple boys from the local reserve showed up demanding $100 to cut us out. Of course hunting we had hardly any cash so my buddy looks at him and says how bout $50 and a case of lucky.......,...... They actually agreed. About 20 minutes later they were back and cut us out. Just goes to show always be ready for anything.

Man O' Man.....If I had seen that they had cut the trees in the 1st place to block me and then charge me....
The outcome would have been a lot different with me......really..
But if the trees had fallen down on their own.....okay, then I might see it your way.

BUT, it brings back some old thoughts for me.....
One time, heading up to Lilloet, we were just going to cross the Bridge in Lyton on the route up.
Come down.... and there is a truck, who missed the bridge/road, and was "Hanging" about 2/3 of the
way off the road, pointing straight into the Thompson River.
And yup, it was a drunk native guy, who could barely stand!(this could have been a White Guy as well)
What does my Dad do, he stops, and "winches him out"......NO CHARGE.
My Father didn't just drive by, as there was more than enough room to go by.

So, where is the camaraderie.......has it now come down to race?....and who is starting that.....hmmmmm.

Isn't it supposed to be a unwritten rule, that out in the middle of "nowhere", you do the best to help someone
who is in trouble?????

But as I stated before, if those tress had fallen "intentionally"....
Guess I grew up listening to Judas Priest too much...
But, "you got another thing coming!" would have been humming in my head!

[hogzotic]

To Souwester:

I am going to be retaining a lawyer to represent me, that is why I started the fund raising campaign. I having a meeting set up with a criminal defense lawyer at 1:30 P.M. on March 1st, here in Terrace. I look forward to see what his initial opinion is on this case. He mentioned having to travel up to Dease lake for the proceedings is going to cost as much as the trial itself.

[IslandBC]

Couple years ago me and my buddy and gf were hunting in cayacuse and nit nat, we went driving down a dead end road about 600 yards. When we came back up the road there were two 3' for trees across the road. I never did figure out how they did it but about ten minutes later a couple boys from the local reserve showed up demanding $100 to cut us out. Of course hunting we had hardly any cash so my buddy looks at him and says how bout $50 and a case of lucky.......,...... They actually agreed. About 20 minutes later they were back and cut us out. Just goes to show always be ready for anything.

You paid them??? how bout cut down the 1 powerline going to that goat town. live off the land pricks.

[GetLethal]

It would seem to me that the general trend lately is for the media/government to "support" "marginalized" groups by shitting on the rights of everyone else aka "the white man". I am a firm believer in one land one law. Now FN have their hunting rights, which might hold water for me if it weren't for the use of modern technologies and the abuse of these rights. The ancestors didnt spotlight deer, then kill 7 with high powered rifles from a truck only to sell off the meat in a parking garage. And now they are impeding access for non FNs to access land they are legally allowed to hunt. Its not enough that they can choose where and when they hunt at will, they have to control where the white man gets to hunt too. I would call it racist but as im sure many of you are aware only whites can be racist...

Hogzotic I hope it all works out for you. I see no fault with what you did and its pathetic that you have to defend your actions in accessing land you are legally entitled to because of an illegal activity of others.

[warren0427]

Absolutely I will help Mick, what they are doing there is ridiculous and should have been stopped long before what happened with you. We really do need more guys like you willing to stand up. Good job.

[hawk-i]

Contact the Terrace Wildlife officers and have them charge those named in the lawsuit against you with Interfering with a legal hunt.

Good luck at your trial.

[smallfry14]

Best of luck to you sir!! If I was able, I'd help financially as well as show up to court and shake your hand.

[snipersights]

The weirdest thing is they were not cut. Not were they rotten. The trees were uprooted and both fell from opposite sides of the road. Unfortunately we had no way out so decided to just pay. It was creepy and scared my gf bad. Then we camped at the hatchery and got circled by wolves all night. This is part of why I got my pal.

[snipersights]

Hehehe that's a funny idea.

[hunter fisher]

Hey mick, i donated to your go fund me page yesterday, and today I went to visit the page and it's been removed, and my money got returned to my visa. What's the deal?

[RiverOtter]

Read back through the posts in this thread, it's all explained.

[hunter fisher]

Read back through the posts in this thread, it's all explained.

missed that, thanks

[ElectricDyck]

I'll send $25 bucks your way..one suggestion would be to keep a running total of your estimated costs and how much you've had donated..

In this social climate you are fighting an uphill battle but I hope you succeed and I love what you did at the road block! I've been in there on a grizzly hunt and made plans to come back in fall for a moose hunt but was turned around at the road block..

[hogzotic]

To Hunter Fisher:
Yeah I started a Go Fund Me page and then I was shut down as they do not help raise money for those involved in criminal charges. So they have sent me messages advising they are starting the process of returning the funds to those that contributed. So I have a secondary savings account set up and I am asking people if they wish to contribute to send an e-transfer to my email at hd09hogrider@gmail.com and I will direct it into the account. I know it is not as handy as GOFUNDME but it only takes a couple minutes to send an e-transfer. Thanks for your actions in trying to help my defense. I appreciate it.

[hogzotic]

I am estimating that my defense will cost somewhere in the area 10-12,000.00. I will get a better idea next Wednesday after meeting with the lawyer that I am thinking on hiring. I estimate the lawyer will charge somewhere around 3-350.00/hour. 6-8 hours of trial preparation, 6 hours up to Dease and 6 hours back. Hotel, meals, and probably a full 8 hour day in court. That estimate brings it in at around $11k.
I have raised $1250.00 so far, including one extremely generous donation of $1000.00. I was like...holy crap!!! so I'm at $1250.00 in my fund raising.

[HighCountryBC]

Thanks for sticking up for resident hunters. Wish there were more like you out there. Donation inbound!

[steve-r]

Hogz, thanks for standing up for hunter rights. EMT sent. C'mon guys....let's support the fight!!

[Ohwildwon]

I am estimating that my defense will cost somewhere in the area 10-12,000.00. I will get a better idea next Wednesday after meeting with the lawyer that I am thinking on hiring. I estimate the lawyer will charge somewhere around 3-350.00/hour. 6-8 hours of trial preparation, 6 hours up to Dease and 6 hours back. Hotel, meals, and probably a full 8 hour day in court. That estimate brings it in at around $11k.
I have raised $1250.00 so far, including one extremely generous donation of $1000.00. I was like...holy crap!!! so I'm at $1250.00 in my fund raising.

Hmmm, there is the BC Hunting and Outdoor Show next weekend @ Abbotsford Tradex..

Just thinking out loud, wonder if someone can set up a donation area or something?

Might be to late, or not a good idea I don't know...

[tuner]

Hmmm, there is the BC Hunting and Outdoor Show next weekend @ Abbotsford Tradex..

Just thinking out loud, wonder if someone can set up a donation area or something?

Might be to late, or not a good idea I don't know...
Actually this is great idea.

[Asco]

I never give money to people on the internet. Until today. Pm sent

[hogzotic]

Thank you so much to everyone. I was at a hockey game with my wife and when I got out of the game I had 3 interact transfers on my phone! My defense fund is now at $1450.00
Thanks to all!

[hogzotic]

The outdoor show sounds like a fantastic idea if someone can organize it.

[guest]

Are you a BCWF member, have you spoke with any body from BCWF about this ........ Simular to Douglas Lake challenge.

I am unable to see video, but hear your issue and others loud and clear. Thanks for taking a stand for all residents to access grown land.

I wish I could help you out.

I think the BCWF were helping with the DL legal challenge issue.

CT

[Ohwildwon]

The outdoor show sounds like a fantastic idea if someone can organize it.

If so, cash would not be a good idea?

Any cheque, money order, etc, made out to your name would probably be best?...

[The Hermit]

Hey Mick - Thanks for taking this on! The answer to the security question for the EMT is: < Kapplan > Good luck. If you are ever down in Victoria I'll have a cold one on ice for you!! Cheers

[mooze]

No I am in favour of not assaulting anyone.

TROLL!!!:p

[squamishhunter]

Sent $50

Password: legaldefense

[wideopenthrottle]

read the weekend paper...saw another story about placating protesters....seems some animal rights org used the nudity and sexual content "report" button to get a live "show" shut down.............................................. .................................................. .......................

..

..

..


I bet your imagination is running wild right now....


it was a live feed from a zoo set up to capture the birth of a baby giraffe.... all I can say is holy crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/youtube-pulls-n-y-zoos-giraffe-birth-video-over-complaints-of-nudity-sexually-explicit-content

[Pemby_mess]

I just watched that video you posted. Wow, it really sucks you ended up getting charged for that. I can't really see any assault taking place. The guy got in front of a truck out of his own volition, and you simply nudged him out of the way, refusing to yield in your intention to proceed. There was no intent to hurt anybody, and indeed no one was hurt.

If I was walking down an urban street and a protester gets in front of me preventing my passage, and I simply keep walking; am I then guilty of assault? Or is the protestor?

I don't really see how adding a vehicle to the equation changes anything. Unless you had used it as a weapon, which it's pretty clear you didn't. It was still being used as conveyance, while arguably, the protestor was using his body as a weapon in order to make his point. The fact that it's an unequal foolish match, doesn't change the reason contact took place. It was the protester soley responsible for the contact.

I think calling these guys protestors is pretty fair. But this only assumes you know what the intent behind the illegal blockade is. Think for a moment, what your first thoughts would be if you didn't know the political background behind this. If I was unlawfully prevented from proceeding due to a blockade on a remote road, my thinking would be some attempt at robbery or extortion. We'd then be calling these guys bandits and it would make sense in those circumstances to react with some level of aggression.

It looked to me like heads remained surprisingly cool on both sides. Is there going to be a preliminary hearing? There should be. I'd be very surprised if this went to a trial. Get a good lawyer, busier the better, pricier the better. It'll be cheaper in the long run.

Also, maybe think of finding a good investigative reporter. This sounds like a good story for them given all the details involved. It seems like your doing pretty well at getting your side of the story out thus far, but this could only help, if you find someone with a history of quality mainstream journalism. I'd really like to know why the rcmp in the area are standing down on this, and then proceeding with charges when the inevitably foreseeable conflict occurs. Baffling; and it needs awareness and answers.

Good luck! I'm not personally ready to put money forward, but keep us informed as this proceeds. If the Crown escalates, I'll put up a good chunk of change for sure. I'll be definitely spreading the word and watching to see what happens.

Thank you for your principles and your prior service.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Very Well written there Pemby_ mess :wink: RJ

[Spy]

Very Well written there Pemby_ mess :wink: RJ
X2 thanks :-)

[hogzotic]

To Pemby: Yes< I tried to keep a cool head, had over 34 years of law enforcement experience in my back pocket, worked 13 years as an undercover operator for the Force, so I have seen a thing or two. I think Section 27 will carry the day: Everyone ( that means resident hunters also) is justified in using as much force as is reasonably necessary
a)-to prevent the commission of an offence
i)-for which, if it were committed, the person who committed it might be arrested without a warrant.
b)-to prevent anything being done that, on reasonable grounds, he believes if it were done, be an offence mentioned in paragraph (a)
The judge who issued the injunction made reference to the persons manning the roadblock are committing acts of intimidation and mischief.
Intimidation: Section 423(1)-Everyone who, wrongfully and without lawful authority, for the purpose of compelling another person to abstain from doing anything (hunting!!!)that he has a lawful right to do, ......
(g) blocks or obstructs a highway (the Ealue lake road is a highway under the Motor Vehicle Act)
is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction
Mischief: Section 430 (1)-Everyone commits mischief who willfully....
(d)-obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property. (you cant stop a guy from legally driving his truck down the road!!!)
Section 430 (3)-(Penalty Section) Everyone who commits mischief in relation to property....
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.,

So...I'm driving down the Ealue Lake road, enjoying the lawful use of my property (truck) and I come across the blockade. The people manning the blockade are committing offences that they could get arrested for (mischief and intimidation) I am lawfully entitled to use as much force as is reasonably necessary (and that is the crux of the case-is the force I used, continuing to drive slowly forward in my truck reasonable?) to stop those people from blocking the road and stopping me from continuing on my way.
I feel I acted reasonably.
I could have taken it further (not the wise choice considering I would be at an extremely poor tactical position and probably would have died) BUT:
Section 494)(1) CC-Arrests without warrant by any person:
Anyone may arrest without warrant (a) a person he finds committing an indictable offence (Mischief is an indictable (dual procedure) offence.)
Section 494(2) CC-
Anyone who is the owner or a person in lawful possession of property...may arrest without warrant a person he finds committing a criminal offence on or in relation to that property (ie enjoyment and operation-HEADING MOOSE HUNTING TO THE KLAPPAN RIVER!!!

So yeah, I felt i showed restraint and did what i had to do to stop those people from continuing to commit acts of mischief and intimidation against me. You can even throw in Section 80 (Wildlife Act)
A person commits an offence if the person interferes with or obstructs a person licenced or permitted....to hunt....while that person is lawfully engaged.

Hang on...I'm just getting warmed up...

Assault-Section 265 (1) A person commits an assault when
(a) without the consent of the other person, he applies force intentionally to that other person, directly or indirectly: (blocking the road with a barricade and then purposely moving infront of my truck
and banging on the hood)
(b) he attempts or threatens, by an act or a gesture (erecting a roadblock and moving infront of a guys truck) to apply force to another person, if he has, or causes that other person to believe upon reasonable grounds that he has, present ability to effect his purpose.
So when you erect a barricade and stand out in front of it telling other hunters they cannot go thru and then further you move in front of their vehicle pushing on it and trying to stop them in their lawful pursuits, you are committing assault.

All these offences were being committed and I'm the only one charged. I'm a little pissed at that and I will do my very best to get that message across to the court and hopefully I'm not the one getting convicted of a criminal offence.

[hogzotic]

Yes, I am a member of the BCWF

[Pemby_mess]

Holy shrapnel! I would say the legislation is on your side by a pretty wide margin. The evidence too seems to be in your favour.

The question seems to be whether it was your intent to intimidate the fellow using your truck. It seemed to me it was your intent to mind your own business and get on with your day ASAP.

That's why I asked if there was a preliminary hearing scheduled. The crown can't proceed with a questionable position. That's a news story in itself: Why is the taxpayer funding dubious criminal charges and prosecuting people trying to legally mind their own business?

Keep us posted!

[Pemby_mess]

I should note that I am generally supportive of indigenous people to have some sort of autonomous say in what happens on their traditional territory when it comes to resource extraction. This is especially true while we sort out the legalities of traditional title.

However, if that is going to take place, their obligations need to be commensurate with their power. Accountability needs to happen. I see it from their side politically, but the state can't let rogue vigilantism happen. There needs to be a predictable, accountable system in place.

Anger at the Tahltan is in my view somewhat misdirected. They say some crazy stuff due to ignorance and indoctrination into victim hood, but that occurs to some extent with non indigenous as well. Everyone should be orientating their discontent toward the place it belongs. This is our leadership - let's get meaningful negotiations underway with this generation and get all this nonsense sorted out. The longer this goes on, the worse it's going to get.

[hogzotic]

Pemby: I appreciate your comments about getting a good lawyer, the pricier , the busier, the better but that is why i started this thread. I see this case having some far reaching effects for other resident hunters. Do you think that if I lose, that you wont see more of these illegal blockades popping up with those manning them thinking they are above the law? Also don't you think it would go a long way if I get a favorable ruling so other hunters facing similar circumstances know where the goal posts are ? So they know what action they can take to continue on with their lawful pursuits?

You say if the crown escalates things that you would be willing to assist financially. They have already charged me with 2 criminal counts and didn't charge anyone manning the blockades. How do they escalate any further than what they have already done??

A good lawyer costs lots of cash and I am willing to spend a lot of cash to try to get a favorable ruling, not only for myself, but also to assist other hunters in knowing where they stand and hopefully stop further illegal road blocks, and to get the RCMP to do their job.

This all costs money and that I is why I need some financial assistance.

[Ohwildwon]

To Pemby: Yes< I tried to keep a cool head, had over 34 years of law enforcement experience in my back pocket, worked 13 years as an undercover operator for the Force, so I have seen a thing or two. I think Section 27 will carry the day: Everyone ( that means resident hunters also) is justified in using as much force as is reasonably necessary
a)-to prevent the commission of an offence
i)-for which, if it were committed, the person who committed it might be arrested without a warrant.
b)-to prevent anything being done that, on reasonable grounds, he believes if it were done, be an offence mentioned in paragraph (a)
The judge who issued the injunction made reference to the persons manning the roadblock are committing acts of intimidation and mischief.
Intimidation: Section 423(1)-Everyone who, wrongfully and without lawful authority, for the purpose of compelling another person to abstain from doing anything (hunting!!!)that he has a lawful right to do, ......
(g) blocks or obstructs a highway (the Ealue lake road is a highway under the Motor Vehicle Act)
is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction
Mischief: Section 430 (1)-Everyone commits mischief who willfully....
(d)-obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property. (you cant stop a guy from legally driving his truck down the road!!!)
Section 430 (3)-(Penalty Section) Everyone who commits mischief in relation to property....
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.,

So...I'm driving down the Ealue Lake road, enjoying the lawful use of my property (truck) and I come across the blockade. The people manning the blockade are committing offences that they could get arrested for (mischief and intimidation) I am lawfully entitled to use as much force as is reasonably necessary (and that is the crux of the case-is the force I used, continuing to drive slowly forward in my truck reasonable?) to stop those people from blocking the road and stopping me from continuing on my way.
I feel I acted reasonably.
I could have taken it further (not the wise choice considering I would be at an extremely poor tactical position and probably would have died) BUT:
Section 494)(1) CC-Arrests without warrant by any person:
Anyone may arrest without warrant (a) a person he finds committing an indictable offence (Mischief is an indictable (dual procedure) offence.)
Section 494(2) CC-
Anyone who is the owner or a person in lawful possession of property...may arrest without warrant a person he finds committing a criminal offence on or in relation to that property (ie enjoyment and operation-HEADING MOOSE HUNTING TO THE KLAPPAN RIVER!!!

So yeah, I felt i showed restraint and did what i had to do to stop those people from continuing to commit acts of mischief and intimidation against me. You can even throw in Section 80 (Wildlife Act)
A person commits an offence if the person interferes with or obstructs a person licenced or permitted....to hunt....while that person is lawfully engaged.

Hang on...I'm just getting warmed up...

Assault-Section 265 (1) A person commits an assault when
(a) without the consent of the other person, he applies force intentionally to that other person, directly or indirectly: (blocking the road with a barricade and then purposely moving infront of my truck
and banging on the hood)
(b) he attempts or threatens, by an act or a gesture (erecting a roadblock and moving infront of a guys truck) to apply force to another person, if he has, or causes that other person to believe upon reasonable grounds that he has, present ability to effect his purpose.
So when you erect a barricade and stand out in front of it telling other hunters they cannot go thru and then further you move in front of their vehicle pushing on it and trying to stop them in their lawful pursuits, you are committing assault.

All these offences were being committed and I'm the only one charged. I'm a little pissed at that and I will do my very best to get that message across to the court and hopefully I'm not the one getting convicted of a criminal offence.

If you win, I suppose you could go on the offense, and charge the perpetrators in the above?

[Spy]

Has the BCWF got a legal fund set up for its members? I'm sure all BCWF members would agree this is the time for the BCWF to step up.

[Pemby_mess]

If you win, I suppose you could go on the offense, and charge the perpetrators in the above?

Its not his decision to bring charges. That's the purview of the state, or in our case "the crown". The Crown can bring charges on someone's behalf, but it's not as simple as the victim of a crime simply deciding that they want a criminal case put forward.

You can decide unilaterally to bring a civil case, but that's entirely different. The first test a judge will use to determine the outcome of that are damages. If there are no damages than likely nothing will be done unless the judge decides it's in the public interest to assign some sort of intangible damages to the matter. In the civil forum, you always risk a countersuit for damages that you potentially didn't forsee from the other party. If the judge finds in their favour or your action was found to be frivolous, you can be found liable for the other party's costs to defend.

[The Hermit]

So Goat Guy can the BCWF step up and help with Mick's legal costs? If not why not? Thanks

[Wentrot]

so goat guy can the bcwf step up and help with mick's legal costs? If not why not? Thanks

x2........

[hogzotic]

Pemby_ I totally agree that this whole situation needs to be sorted out. It has taken many years, decades of negotiation and I'm sure it will take decades more. In the interim there will be many contacts between resident hunters and native hunters. The law of the land must prevail and we must all follow it.

This leads me to the point you make that I do not agree with. I believe that if the Tahltan do not follow the laws of the land then anger directed towards them is not misdirected. How can you say in one sentence that the state can't let rogue vigilantism happen and that there needs to be a predictable accountable system in place and then in the next sentence say anger is misdirected at the tahltan's when they are conducting this rogue vigilantism?

They can protest in a lawful manner and make there point known to their government and the prov/Fed Governments. They cannot expect support when they knowingly break the law by stopping other residents of this country from enjoying the fruits of this beautiful land. The Ealue lake road is a public access road to a vast wild country where hunters, fishers, backpackers, outdoor photographers, campers and horseback riders all have a right to access and enjoy.

The local Police need to realize that enforcement of the law does not depend on how they will be viewed politically. They need to enforce it fairly across the the entire population. If the tahltan's know they will be arrested for blocking the road, their protest will be short lived.

I still think about the guy that has planned a hunting trip all year long, spent considerable time and money preparing, and driven for 2 days, only to arrive and find a barricade in his way. He is alone and knows his police will do nothing to help him. How helpless a feeling.... We are men and feeling helpless does not sit well with us.....Some can turn the other cheek and I commend them for that ability....Me-I hate being slapped!

Simply not right....

[Spy]

The BCWF "stepping up" would show hunters are standing behind Mick & could have a bearing on the courts decision..

[willyqbc]

but the state can't let rogue vigilantism happen.

Unfortunately that is exactly where I see this going. One of these days these blockaders or others like them, are going to be faced by a dozen trucks with blacked out license plates, full of guys wearing ski masks. Perhaps I'm overdramatizing a tad, but I do think there is a pushback coming if the gov't doesn't start putting some shackles on this behavior, and I do think at some point that pushback will become violent. From poaching on private land to illegally blocking roads etc, etc...you can only kick a dog so many times before it bites you.

JMO
Chris

[hogzotic]

To Willyqbc: I feel exactly the same way Chris. I can see several hunters meeting at the tatooga lodge then driving up the road in mass and not being in the mood to deal with an illegal roadblock. Things could get ugly fast. I was only one guy....I can imagine the carnage if a "dozen good ol' boys" showed up!! That is another reason why I took the time to lodge a formal complaint against the RCMP for failing to do their job keep the road open. If they do their job then things should go smoothly....giving time for higher level negotiations to settle the big picture.

[tuner]

Just out of curiosity, what happened when you went through the blockade on your way out?

[Ride Red]

Unfortunately that is exactly where I see this going. One of these days these blockaders or others like them, are going to be faced by a dozen trucks with blacked out license plates, full of guys wearing ski masks. Perhaps I'm overdramatizing a tad, but I do think there is a pushback coming if the gov't doesn't start putting some shackles on this behavior, and I do think at some point that pushback will become violent. From poaching on private land to illegally blocking roads etc, etc...you can only kick a dog so many times before it bites you.

JMO
Chris

Your opinion is correct, now to get the mass of hunters in this province to step up before it's too late.

[Ride Red]

Donation sent. We all need to support Mick as this also affects each and every one of us. Every dollar counts no matter how small, keep this going.

Send your donations to: hd09hogrider@gmail.com

[hogzotic]

ToTuner, On my way out they had the road blocked with a car and I got out of my truck and yelled at them to move it and it was like Moses parting the red sea. They moved it right away. I then stopped and got into a conversation with a camera man and I guess he was delaying me till the Cavalry arrived. A guy pulls up and blocks me. I have a conversation with him and ask him politely to move his vehicle and he says no. I asked again with no response. So I finally said that he has a very nice vehicle there and I drive an old truck but if he does not move his truck now I am going to ram the thing out of my way. He believed me and moved his vehicle.

Mick McKee
hd09hogrider@gmail.com

[hogzotic]

Thank you Ride red for the very generous donation!! I want to thank everyone that has read this thread and provided feedback and comments of support. I have raised $1950.00 in my defense fund so far. I am overwhelmed with the response and generosity. My legal bill is looking smaller every day!!

Mick McKee
hd09hogrider@gmail.com

[northernbc]

Is there any use in phoning the dease lk rcmp or the crown (wherever they are) to nicely voice our disgust?

[Linksman313]

Once again begs the question, what if the illegal blockade was by resident hunters instead of FN? Swat team,helicopters, tactical response, national incident, terrrorism?
Way to stand up for yourself and your rights, will donate what I can, what about the BCWF??

[Lionhill]

So Goat Guy can the BCWF step up and help with Mick's legal costs? If not why not? Thanks


Crickets......

x3 - Where does the BCWF stand on this?

[Whonnock Boy]

Not officially speaking for the BCWF I'll say this. Mr. McKee acted on his own, and I doubt the Fed would want to encourage future instances of possible illegal activities and participation in highly volatile events by financially supporting Mr. McKee. Summed up, it's a journey filled with trap doors and controversy. In addition, the Fed already spent $50,000 on the injunction.


Crickets......

x3 - Where does the BCWF stand on this?

[Knute]

A little donation coming your way....answer is hellyeah

Being retired with time to come and go as I please (with the wife's permission) ;) I appreciate what you're doing for ALL of us.

[Spy]

Not officially speaking for the BCWF I'll say this. Mr. McKee acted on his own, and I doubt the Fed would want to encourage future instances of possible illegal activities and participation in highly volatile events by financially supporting Mr. McKee. Summed up, it's a journey filled with trap doors and controversy. In addition, the Fed already spent $50,000 on the injunction.
This would be where I want my BCWF funds spent, the BCWF could actually get more members by backing Mick. I will give the BCWF a couple more days to come to the table, if they don't I will be donating my BCWF membership fees for the year to Mick. I will urge others to do the same.

[hogzotic]

Thanks Nute, I think I tried to figure out the password to your clue "good cause?" ans I was not able to so it got cancelled. ooops!

[hogzotic]

To Spy: I appreciate everything the BCWF has done. It was their good work that got the injunction in place. Like I said they did entertain funding my defense but it is not it their mandate. So Please...continue with your memberships to BCWF and don't send your BCWF membership dues to me. They did great work and should be commended for their timely action!!!

Mick McKee
hd09hogrider@gmail.com

[elknut]

If the BCWF can't or won't stand behind Mr.McKee then what does it stand for?..A retired member of the RCMP that knows the laws and is pursuing his sport of hunting legally is being blocked from pursuing it...This alone is against the law ...The case seems to me to really be about .....The native blockade being legal.... and the pursuit of your govt given right to hunt and pursue game legally.... being illegal...This case seems to me should go all the way to the Supreme Court Of Canada ...If the RCMP were at the blockade and turned back Mr.McKee then he tresspassed through the blockade then he might be guilty..but he just removed some of the obstruction on the road and started to drive through..The FN that tried to stop him by standing in front of him did so of his own accord..The FN then let him proceed on ..Where was the criminal act?..Removing or driving around a blockade is not a criminal act...Unions have blockades all the time during labor disputes ..Company officials and other employees drive through and are not charged..Where is the Native Precident that crossing their blockade a criminal act..Show me that in law ...Seems that if Mr.McKee is fopund guilty a whole new can of worms gets opened for the Supreme Court of Canada ..Many cases will be challenged over this guilty verdict ..Should be someone willing to work ..Pro Bono ..for this case ..Just my rant and belief ...Dennis

[HarryToolips]

^^^^I agree with you Dennis, so mind my ignorance, but are we attempting to submit this case to the Supreme Court of Canada???

[Knute]

Mick I have initiated another transfer......answer is youbet

[Lionhill]

Not officially speaking for the BCWF I'll say this. Mr. McKee acted on his own, and I doubt the Fed would want to encourage future instances of possible illegal activities and participation in highly volatile events by financially supporting Mr. McKee. Summed up, it's a journey filled with trap doors and controversy. In addition, the Fed already spent $50,000 on the injunction.

Thank you for replying. I was hoping that the BCWF would actually respond to this, considering the gravity and precedent of this situation.

I cannot see how supporting a hunter who was pursuing his right to hunt would be "encouraging" future instances, and then suggesting that anything that this hunter did was "illegal" is just wrong.

If the BCWF does not represent resident hunters, then what the hell does it represent? Perhaps we need another organization called BC Resident Hunters First?

[hogzotic]

Thanks Ken I got it. I now have $2300.00 in my defense fund. Thank you all for your generosity!!

Mick McKee
Hd09hogrider@gmail.com

[metalface]

Thank you for replying. I was hoping that the BCWF would actually respond to this, considering the gravity and precedent of this situation.

I cannot see how supporting a hunter who was pursuing his right to hunt would be "encouraging" future instances, and then suggesting that anything that this hunter did was "illegal" is just wrong.

If the BCWF does not represent resident hunters, then what the hell does it represent? Perhaps we need another organization called BC Resident Hunters First?

The majority of people in this province/country do not hunt. If, rightly or wrongly, the perception of hunters amongst the voting majority is that we are not sensitive to working with other stakeholders, or worse, are a bunch of hot-headed 'racists', where might that leave hunting in 10, 15, 50 years? Maybe that's why an org like BCWF treads carefully here. I totally agree with what you're saying, and with everyone's right to enjoy public/crown land in the province, and the blockade was not right, but this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum...

[elknut]

Would like to see it go there to end this BS over FN blockades and all their rights and us hunters have none ..Just tried to show that there is a bigger issue here that might have the RCMP have to stop a FN blockade of a road right from the GETGO ...I"m no lawyer but surely cases are taken on to set a precident in law ..I think this is one of them..There has to be a retired lawyer that would step forward and take this case ..As far as just allowing a lower court judge to decide and not challenge the result to the Supreme court only emboldens the FN and the BS hierarchy of the gutless RCMP management ...There either is precident or there is not ..Lets end this once a for all..Dennis

[AgSilver]

^^^^I agree with you Dennis, so mind my ignorance, but are we attempting to submit this case to the Supreme Court of Canada???

Starts with the first trial, then someone appeals to the BC Court of Appeal, then someone appeals to the SCC (no direct route to the SCC for this kind of thing).

[Jagermeister]

I think that you should ask for a venue change. State that your safety is compromised at the current location and I truly believe it is.

[hogzotic]

I meet with a lawyer on Wednesday and will see what he thinks of the case and what kind of budget is going to be needed. The venue (dease lake) could be a bit tricky so if there are any resident hunters in the area (around the end of August) your presence would assist. I do expect to have to run a gauntlet of Tahltans in and out of court . But there should be Sheriff's if things start to go sideways. We will see what a provincial court says and also what comes out of my formal complaint to the RCMP for the inaction of the Dease lake members. It's going to be a tough road but I'm up for it. I've dealt with lots of court stuff in my life. I've got buddies circulating my post working hard to try to generate funds.
Mick McKee
Hd09hogrider@Gmail. Com

[AgSilver]

Could be worth bumping to Supreme for a jury...lawyer will probably have some advice either way on that, but definitely worth discussion.

[Pemby_mess]

Would like to see it go there to end this BS over FN blockades and all their rights and us hunters have none ..Just tried to show that there is a bigger issue here that might have the RCMP have to stop a FN blockade of a road right from the GETGO ...I"m no lawyer but surely cases are taken on to set a precident in law ..I think this is one of them..There has to be a retired lawyer that would step forward and take this case ..As far as just allowing a lower court judge to decide and not challenge the result to the Supreme court only emboldens the FN and the BS hierarchy of the gutless RCMP management ...There either is precident or there is not ..Lets end this once a for all..Dennis

Easy there!

There is a process and the court has already submitted an injunction on the blockade. Why the RCMP is not enforcing the will of the court in this case is anybody's guess I suppose. Local politics?

WRT Mick's particular issue, we're not even sure if the charges against him will make it to a judge of any sort. All we know is that the RCMP have recommended charges and the Crown has apparently filed them. The Crown may (should?) have the charges rejected by the court based on poor evidence that he has even committed a crime. If that happens, the justice system is working more or less how it should. It makes errors of all kinds while regulating our complex society but there is generally many opportunities for self correction built into the processes involved.

If the process goes beyond a preliminary hearing and Mick is convicted via a decision at trial, only then is it potentially setting a negative legal precedent.

Nothing done in this case will be the "end of the matter". There is a tonne of legal complexity surrounding ownership of Crown Land in BC right now. Best big picture thing to be done ATM, is to put political pressure on legislators of all flavours to get the negotiations moving. Putting a whole lot of communal energy into fighting various spot fires, while ignoring the legal candelling straight ahead, is only counter productive to the larger goal: Which is that every BC stakeholder knows where they stand when it comes to fair productive use of their commons.

[Darksith]

You are way out of line, you are the very reason that First Nations hate residents, have you seen the crap up and down the rivers and trails and the so called cashes that residents leave behind? Are you one if the hunters that goes in and shoots a moose takes the 4 quarters and leaves the rest? You are plain and simply being charged for an illegal activity and when the rest of the world gets into trouble we don't go begging for money.
There were moose hunters in that area last year useing a drone for spotting.... i am a resident hunter of bc and i question what you are making us all look like.

who is this nut bar? 6 posts lol...time for a boot n ban

[f350ps]

who is this nut bar? 6 posts lol...time for a boot n ban
Not sure who he is but I'd bet he's gone back to the roadblock! K

[Darksith]

one question...have the police or crown seen your video?

[Pemby_mess]

one question...have the police or crown seen your video?

Now there's a good question.

it seems to me that the video was taken and edited by the blockade participants and is what would be used against him. I could be wrong. If that is the best evidence to support "assault with a weapon" then the Crown would appear to be on very shaky ground with that. Given the blockade was illegal, I think the video is to Mr. Mckee's credit.

The blockade proponents are getting traction through social media using the preconceived assumption that the blockade is legitimate. Some members of the Tahltan perhaps do feel that way but in the eyes of the law it's not. If it was a legitimate restriction to protect some sort of exclusive use classification, only then could I see how Mr. Mckee's actions could be construed as an offence.

It's actually pretty interesting. It's kind of seems like the Province is yielding to the Tahltan's demands without codifying the ground rules.

[RiverOtter]

Not officially speaking for the BCWF I'll say this. Mr. McKee acted on his own, and I doubt the Fed would want to encourage future instances of possible illegal activities and participation in highly volatile events by financially supporting Mr. McKee. Summed up, it's a journey filled with trap doors and controversy. In addition, the Fed already spent $50,000 on the injunction.
So riddle me this, unofficially of course....The Fed has $50,000 of members money to dump on an injunction to remove an illegal barricade that should have been removed "gratis", courtesy of the Dease lk RCMP. But then can't lift a finger to help a resident hunter exercising his legal right to hunt in his home province, because it might cause controversy???

The Fed absolutely wasted 50k IMO and still made zero SN(Same Nation, they're no more Canadian than anyone else born here) friends.

Curious, how many resident hunters actually made use of the open road, after the Fed "saved the day". Even then, how many would risk their camps getting ransacked because the RCMP refuses to do the very job our tax dollars pay them to do?

Maybe if the Fed actually took a chance and stuck their neck out for a resident hunter, they might actually gain enough credibility to start recouping enough membership to make the wheels turn in this province.

My rant for the day...Clint

[BgBlkDg]

EXACTLY, and one of THE BEST commentaries on this disgrace I have ever read!

When, some time ago, I saw photos of the smug, grinning "Chief" Stuart Phillip, meeting with and dictating to senior execs. of the BCWF, I decided that the "Fed" has become a waste of time and energy.

The end of all of this will be violence, no question.

[hogzotic]

To Darksith: Yes , both the Police and Crown have seen both videos and that is what they are basing the charges on, along with the witness statements of course.

[hogzotic]

To Pemby: I am amazed that RTCC (Report to Crown Council) got thru charge approval-I agree, it stinks of politics!!!

[Lionhill]

I decided that the "Fed" has become a waste of time, energy and money.



Minor addition.

[Spy]

Someone in the know better copy that video before it disappears..

[Spy]

So riddle me this, unofficially of course....The Fed has $50,000 of members money to dump on an injunction to remove an illegal barricade that should have been removed "gratis", courtesy of the Dease lk RCMP. But then can't lift a finger to help a resident hunter exercising his legal right to hunt in his home province, because it might cause controversy???

The Fed absolutely wasted 50k IMO and still made zero SN(Same Nation, they're no more Canadian than anyone else born here) friends.

Curious, how many resident hunters actually made use of the open road, after the Fed "saved the day". Even then, how many would risk their camps getting ransacked because the RCMP refuses to do the very job our tax dollars pay them to do?

Maybe if the Fed actually took a chance and stuck their neck out for a resident hunter, they might actually gain enough credibility to start recouping enough membership to make the wheels turn in this province.

My rant for the day...Clint
You get it ! I had the same conversation with a friend about this^^^^^^^ today.. Spend 50gs on getting a highway opened that is being illegally shut down?????

[Vanislehiker]

I just re-watched the video of you passing thru the blockade again and I do not see how that could be taken for as a assault. You can even hear a bystander say " Ryan you are endangering YOUR life" which to me means she felt he was choosing to put himself in your way and not the other way around. Just my 2 cents

[Gateholio]

I understand that people like pointing their fingers at organizations and demanding action because 'they paid their membership fees" but I don't know if I want the BCWF to set precedent by getting involved in individuals court cases.

This is probably as good a cause as any to open your wallet and donate to if it goes to trial.

[Whonnock Boy]

It's good to hear that you appreciate the efforts of the BCWF Mick.

Like I said, I wasn't speaking for the BCWF, I was only thinking aloud at the pitfalls of funding legal endeavors such as this. Sometimes it's just a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for the Fed. Can't please everyone, all of the time, or even some of the time.


To Spy: I appreciate everything the BCWF has done. It was their good work that got the injunction in place. Like I said they did entertain funding my defense but it is not it their mandate. So Please...continue with your memberships to BCWF and don't send your BCWF membership dues to me. They did great work and should be commended for their timely action!!!

Mick McKee
hd09hogrider@gmail.com

[Seth]

I think that you should ask for a venue change. State that your safety is compromised at the current location and I truly believe it is.

Not a bad idea. I'd investigate whether that is an option.

[Spy]

I understand that people like pointing their fingers at organizations and demanding action because 'they paid their membership fees" but I don't know if I want the BCWF to set precedent by getting involved in individuals court cases.

This is probably as good a cause as any to open your wallet and donate to if it goes to trial.
Thats why they have a legal fund, so they can help members that are out hunting and run into troubles, just like Mick.

[guest]

It's good to hear that you appreciate the efforts of the BCWF Mick.

Like I said, I wasn't speaking for the BCWF, I was only thinking aloud at the pitfalls of funding legal endeavors such as this. Sometimes it's just a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for the Fed. Can't please everyone, all of the time, or even some of the time.


Well said, hats off to Mick for standing up for resident hunters. I hope I can help you some how.

[Gateholio]

Thats why they have a legal fund, so they can help members that are out hunting and run into troubles, just like Mick.

.
Do you have a link that outlines this legal fund?

[Dougielightning]

Well said Clint (river otter). Beside my self at this point, cannot believe this has ran a course this far along. This is tax dollars spent at its very finest!!!! Seeing what's happenened in the last few months has shaken me, from the cow elk harvested on private property, while property owner looks on helplessly to the three sheep shot along the road for thier horns, it is clear where this is headed. Sad sad day .

[RiverOtter]

It's good to hear that you appreciate the efforts of the BCWF Mick.

Like I said, I wasn't speaking for the BCWF, I was only thinking aloud at the pitfalls of funding legal endeavors such as this. Sometimes it's just a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for the Fed. Can't please everyone, all of the time, or even some of the time.

Okay, so what happens this fall? The Fed wastes another 50k in court to remove a few logs from the same highway that the cops are supposed too?

Please tell me the insanity doesn't run that deep around the BCWF....

Hint: Spend 50k on habitat enhancement and at least help wildlife, if you're not interested in supporting resident hunters.

[Spy]

.
Do you have a link that outlines this legal fund?
No I don't but maybe Whonnock can explain the BCWF legal fund to us.

[RiverOtter]

but I don't know if I want the BCWF to set precedent by getting involved in individuals court cases.

To be honest, I'd be a LOT more concerned about the precedent set if Mick loses....

[BgBlkDg]

Agreed, BUT, what else can he do, given the situation???

[Gateholio]

To be honest, I'd be a LOT more concerned about the precedent set if Mick loses....

.
There won't be any real precedent. It's an assault case, not a roadblock case. If he loses, it doesn't set a precedent that illegal roadblocks are now legal.

[Spy]

.
There won't be any real precedent. It's an assault case, not a roadblock case. If he loses, it doesn't set a precedent that illegal roadblocks are now legal.
It is way more then a simple assault case.

[Whonnock Boy]

Let's get something straight. I didn't make the decision to get the injunction, and I won't be in the position to make that decision again this fall. In fact, there are many decisions that I am not part of. They are way above my pay grade of...... NOTHING! I don't deserve the animosity you are directing at me, nor from any other person here that has a bone to pick with the Federation. I will gladly attempt to get answers to any questions some may have provided they are asked in a respectful manner. Short of that, you're going to get what you give.


Okay, so what happens this fall? The Fed wastes another 50k in court to remove a few logs from the same highway that the cops are supposed too?

Please tell me the insanity doesn't run that deep around the BCWF....

Hint: Spend 50k on habitat enhancement and at least help wildlife, if you're not interested in supporting resident hunters.

[Spy]

Let's get something straight. I didn't make the decision to get the injunction, and I won't be in the position to make that decision again this fall. In fact, there are many decisions that I am not part of. They are way above my pay grade of...... NOTHING! I don't deserve the animosity you are directing at me, nor from any other person here that has a bone to pick with the Federation. I will gladly attempt to get answers to any questions some may have provided they are asked in a respectful manner. Short of that, you're going to get what you give.
I don't think anyone is blaming or accusing you WB. I think it would be great to hear from GG though....

[Gateholio]

It is way more then a simple assault case.

Assault with a weapon and uttering threats.

[elknut]

This is exactly the bs ..Assault with a weapon ...The truck ...This goes on in union blockades all the time and no one gets charged ...So why is this hunter being charged?...

[Spy]

Assault with a weapon and uttering threats.
Yes thats it you are so clever ;-)

[RiverOtter]

Let's get something straight. I didn't make the decision to get the injunction, and I won't be in the position to make that decision again this fall. In fact, there are many decisions that I am not part of. They are way above my pay grade of...... NOTHING! I don't deserve the animosity you are directing at me, nor from any other person here that has a bone to pick with the Federation. I will gladly attempt to get answers to any questions some may have provided they are asked in a respectful manner. Short of that, you're going to get what you give.

My apologies to you Troy, my vent isn't directed at you personally. You took an "unofficial" position to explain where the Fed "might" be coming from and I was simply challenging that stance. My animosity is directed at the BCWF as a body, not you as an individual. Don't take it personal, cause it's not.

[RiverOtter]

.
There won't be any real precedent. It's an assault case, not a roadblock case. If he loses, it doesn't set a precedent that illegal roadblocks are now legal.

Really??? So you don't think it'll have any future repercussions for any other resident hunter(s) that are simply trying to pass an illegal blockade.

I hate to say it, but from what I've seen thus far with Mick's treatment, they're gonna nail him to the cross as an example for anyone else brave enough to exercise their legal access beyond a SN road block.

[Whonnock Boy]

Thank you.


My apologies to you Troy, my vent isn't directed at you personally. You took an "unofficial" position to explain where the Fed "might" be coming from and I was simply challenging that stance. My animosity is directed at the BCWF as a body, not you as an individual. Don't take it personal, cause it's not.

[HarryToolips]

Starts with the first trial, then someone appeals to the BC Court of Appeal, then someone appeals to the SCC (no direct route to the SCC for this kind of thing).
Good to know, thanks....

[bandit]

I have since been charged with "assault with a weapon " and "uttering threats to burn".

(https://www.facebook.com/klabonakeepers/videos/1301072163244836/)

This is totally down to politics.

Last year I saw some guy reselling a used lift ticket in the car park at the local ski hill. There are signs all over saying it's an offence with a 200$ fine. He got caught by the parking attendant and tried to drive off. The parking attendant tried to block his car but he drove off anyway, pushing the attendant backwards 10 metres until he got out of the way. Exactly the same sort of vehicle confrontation as your case but I believe the attendant had a legal right to stop the driver and collect the fine.

The police already had a roadblock at the bottom of the hill and stopped the driver.I left my contact details with them as I had witnessed the confrontation. West Van police never called me to make a statement or give evidence in court, I can only assume they never pressed assault or any other charges.

[Dougielightning]

.
There won't be any real precedent. It's an assault case, not a roadblock case. If he loses, it doesn't set a precedent that illegal roadblocks are now legal.

What do you mean there would be no precedent set. precedent set would be a person would no longer be entitled to a legal hunt, or the right to travel where a person wishes, where anyone can stand in front of your vehicle in order to fulfill their own agenda no matter what or where it is, and call it assault.

[Gateholio]

Really??? So you don't think it'll have any future repercussions for any other resident hunter(s) that are simply trying to pass an illegal blockade.

I hate to say it, but from what I've seen thus far with Mick's treatment, they're gonna nail him to the cross as an example for anyone else brave enough to exercise their legal access beyond a SN road block.

Hard to say exactly. The problem is what one hunter does may be different than what Mick did and so it may not be applicable. There isn't going to be a precedent that says "it's okay to chainsaw a log off a roadblock and use your truck to push through" but it might help if it's ruled that a roadblock is indeed mischief and therefore Mick isn't guilty.

What will be most interesting is if it goes all the way to trial.

[Pemby_mess]

.
There won't be any real precedent. It's an assault case, not a roadblock case. If he loses, it doesn't set a precedent that illegal roadblocks are now legal.

There won't be any kind of legal precedent set; that's true.

However, it does lend legitimacy and justification to the action of blocking access to Crown land. It's the state's authority backing one party inconsistent with its own laws. That's really problematic.

If there is a conviction, it says to all those thinking of setting these things up; that their tactics work. Even the charges themselves speak volumes. As someone thinking of defying an illegal roadblock, the fact that he was even charged, tells me I will suffer at least a legal nuisance for trying to go about my day. It kinda of opens the province for thuggery. It's one thing for authorities to sheepishly stand by; quite an other for them to be a complicit rook in the thug's game.

I am not saying the BCWF should be funding individual assault cases irrespective the circumstances. That does seem to open a pretty stinky can of worms to me. However, I take RO's point about the organization dedicating resources in pushing the RCMP to do what they're supposed to be doing anyway. That doesn't seem like a worthwhile approach either. There must be a better way.

[elknut]

Just a stupid question ...Is there nothing in our Constitution that says we have the right to pursue our life without obstruction ....Seems to me the FN s have a right to set up a discussion area and we have a right to go around or cross it ..Neither side has the right to stop the other..The FN should be charged with assault for impeding Mr.Mc Kee ..He put his hands on Mr.Mc Kees truck ..

[Gateholio]

Even more interesting is where Micks formal RCMP complaint is dealt with.

Now THAT might set a real precedent. Ultimately the biggest win here could be the RCMP directed to enforce court injunctions and be held in contempt if they don't. I have no idea if that is likely but I would love to see something like that.

[GOLDEN TOP SNIPER]

We are all suppose to be Canadians living and hunting on Crown land .We are all suppose to be under the SAME Canadian law.And no one is above the law and that includes Natives .. . They had no right to stop anyone . And of course that man should not have put himself in Harms way . . The man driving the truck should have reported it . Under the law , yes it was Assault ... The proper authorities should have got off there ass and did something about the blockade and it would not have happen in the first place . Anyone who uses the Word racist is a racist . WE ALL KNOW Excactly what its all about .. GREED .

[1899]

Whether or not the blockade was legal is not the issue. Whether or not the police did their job after the injunction is not the issue. There are only two issue in this case: Did he commit an assault by using a weapon, and did he, in any manner, utter or convey threats to burn, destroy or damage real or personal property? That's it.

This won't set a precedent for anything. Keep in mind that the injunction was granted 10 days AFTER this incident.

[Gateholio]

There won't be any kind of legal precedent set; that's true.

However, it does lend legitimacy and justification to the action of blocking access to Crown land. It's the state's authority backing one party inconsistent with its own laws. That's really problematic.

If there is a conviction, it says to all those thinking of setting these things up; that their tactics work. Even the charges themselves speak volumes. As someone thinking of defying an illegal roadblock, the fact that he was even charged, tells me I will suffer at least a legal nuisance for trying to go about my day. It kinda of opens the province for thuggery. It's one thing for authorities to sheepishly stand by; quite an other for them to be a complicit rook in the thug's game.

I am not saying the BCWF should be funding individual assault cases irrespective the circumstances. That does seem to open a pretty stinky can of worms to me. However, I take RO's point about the organization dedicating resources in pushing the RCMP to do what they're supposed to be doing anyway. That doesn't seem like a worthwhile approach either. There must be a better way.

Thats why I think the most interesting part would be if it even goes to trial or how the RCMP complaint is handled.

Sometimes the crown prefers to just kill something if they think it's going to interrupt the status quo

[BgBlkDg]

Blaming the RCMP officers is pointless as they DO WHAT the politicians TELL THEM TO DO. I have experienced harassment, threats and drunken assholian behaviour while working on an Alberta Forest Service fire tower and the local RCMP "staff" would do nothing.

I did not shoot the miscreants and they never returned, but, I know of other such situations and all I can say is bring in the military and sort these goons out once and for all.

[Dougielightning]

Another possible charge is intimidation, which occurs when someone “blocks or obstructs a highway” for the purpose of preventing others from exercising their legal rights. [41] (http://www.elc.uvic.ca/publications/civil-disobedience-a-legal-handbook-for-activists/#FN41) A highway is generally defined in B.C. law as any public road. [42] (http://www.elc.uvic.ca/publications/civil-disobedience-a-legal-handbook-for-activists/#FN42) Thus an environmental protester blocking a logging road to stop a forest company from logging might be guilty of intimidation. A further possible charge is obstruction of a highway, which is a relatively obscure offence under the B.C. Highway Act.

Would this not be the initial fn charge what am I missing here????

[REMINGTON JIM]

[QUOTE=BgBlkDg;1884063] Blaming the RCMP officers is pointless as they DO WHAT the politicians TELL THEM TO DO. I have experienced harassment, threats and drunken assholian behaviour while working on an Alberta Forest Service fire tower and the local RCMP "staff" would do nothing.

And that is WHY the RCMP are usless in my opinion and we need A provincial Police force that will respond to the " GOOD TAXPAYERS OF THE BC PROVINCE " not to what a bunch of GOOFs working out of Ottawa say ! jmo RJ

[Ohwildwon]

[QUOTE=BgBlkDg;1884063] Blaming the RCMP officers is pointless as they DO WHAT the politicians TELL THEM TO DO. I have experienced harassment, threats and drunken assholian behaviour while working on an Alberta Forest Service fire tower and the local RCMP "staff" would do nothing.

And that is WHY the RCMP are usless in my opinion and we need A provincial Police force that will respond to the " GOOD TAXPAYERS OF THE BC PROVINCE " not to what a bunch of GOOFs working out of Ottawa say ! jmo RJ

Here Here!

[hogzotic]

To Riverotter-You're right they are going to try to nail me to the cross for going thru and maybe they think that will make other resident hunters think twice. But I think I am going to prevail in court. I've been in court many times. I will clearly articulate my position and I believe a reasonable judge will find me not guilty. I think I will also she'd light on the RCMP's lack of action with the court case and my public complaint so that they are forced to do their job. I will be happy if I can drive into the Klappan River next year and see some other hunters with their camps set up, enjoying the beautiful country and hanging with their bud's. If that happens then my goal is accomplished.
Mick McKee
Hd09hogrider@Gmail

[tuner]

Any criticism directed at FN groups, no matter how valid

is taboo under the current social and political climate.

I have a feeling the charges are going to be dropped simply for political expediency, outta sight, outta mind,
problem solved.

[BgBlkDg]

I would prefer that you did not quote me as saying what are actually RJ's comments.

I do not think that all RCMP officers are "goofs" and I worked with scores of them, many are brave, decent and honourable folks and I respect them.

The BC Provincial Police were no better and would also respond to Christy and her kind........an improvement?

[AgSilver]

This is totally down to politics.

Last year I saw some guy reselling a used lift ticket in the car park at the local ski hill. There are signs all over saying it's an offence with a 200$ fine. He got caught by the parking attendant and tried to drive off. The parking attendant tried to block his car but he drove off anyway, pushing the attendant backwards 10 metres until he got out of the way. Exactly the same sort of vehicle confrontation as your case but I believe the attendant had a legal right to stop the driver and collect the fine.

The police already had a roadblock at the bottom of the hill and stopped the driver.I left my contact details with them as I had witnessed the confrontation. West Van police never called me to make a statement or give evidence in court, I can only assume they never pressed assault or any other charges.

There's probably something in there about a private enterprise having no authority to determine what an "offence" is or issue fines (see various discussions around parking lot "fines")...however, they don't have to let him back on the mountain, that's for sure....at least unless the "right to roam" act passes!


Even more interesting is where Micks formal RCMP complaint is dealt with.

Now THAT might set a real precedent. Ultimately the biggest win here could be the RCMP directed to enforce court injunctions and be held in contempt if they don't. I have no idea if that is likely but I would love to see something like that.

Who is usually tasked with enforcing injunctions? Is it the police? I would have thought sheriffs, but I honestly don't know. I guess that when it's an injunction is breaching a court order and therefore criminal'ish...I wonder. Would have to look that up.


Whether or not the blockade was legal is not the issue. Whether or not the police did their job after the injunction is not the issue. There are only two issue in this case: Did he commit an assault by using a weapon, and did he, in any manner, utter or convey threats to burn, destroy or damage real or personal property? That's it.

This won't set a precedent for anything. Keep in mind that the injunction was granted 10 days AFTER this incident.

The video doesn't make it seem like he did those things, does it? Assault on the most technical and simple levels...yes, probably...although there's an argument that by standing in front of his truck, consent was implied...? Probably not, though.

Threats? I wonder what the caselaw is on what is on what is considered a threat....is "I would do if I had to" really a threat?

[hogzotic]

I agree , the RCMP is a great police force. I think the senior managers of the Dease Lake detachment are playing the politics and that is what the problem is. I am confident the guys/gals in harness on the street are frustrated they can't deal with the blockade. I just heard from a cop I have known for a while who said they just got back from a fn policing conference and the word was "hands off" on the natives as they always lose in the press. Those kind of comments I find extremely frustrating.

[1899]

Who is usually tasked with enforcing injunctions? Is it the police? I would have thought sheriffs, but I honestly don't know. I guess that when it's an injunction is breaching a court order and therefore criminal'ish...I wonder. Would have to look that up.



The video doesn't make it seem like he did those things, does it? Assault on the most technical and simple levels...yes, probably...although there's an argument that by standing in front of his truck, consent was implied...? Probably not, though.

Threats? I wonder what the caselaw is on what is on what is considered a threat....is "I would do if I had to" really a threat?

I suspect the video is not the only evidence.

What is a threat?

To determine whether spoken or written words constitute a threat to cause serious bodily harm ‑‑ an issue of law and not of fact ‑‑ they must be looked at in the context in which they were spoken or written, in light of the person to whom they were addressed and the circumstances in which they were uttered. They should be viewed in an objective way and the meaning attributed to the words should be that which a reasonable person would give to them.

plus


On a charge of uttering threats, the actus reus is the uttering of threatening words. Whether the words uttered constitute a threat, must be viewed objectively and involves a determination as to whether or not a reasonable person would consider the words uttered as being threatening. They are to be reviewed in light of the circumstances in which they were uttered, the manner in which they were spoken, and the person to whom they were addressed (see R. v. McCraw, 1991 CanLII 29 (SCC) (http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1991/1991canlii29/1991canlii29.html), [1991] 3 S.C.R. 72 at 82-83, and R. v. Clemente, 1994 CanLII 49 (SCC) (http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1994/1994canlii49/1994canlii49.html), [1994] 2 S.C.R. 758 at 763).

In addition, and as was stated in Clemente, at p. 763, it is not a necessary element of the offence that the intended victim be aware of the threat. Furthermore, “[t]he threat need not be carried out; the offence is completed when the threat is made” (see McCraw, at p. 81).

As to the mens rea, the trial judge must be convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that the accused committed the offence “knowingly.” Therefore, because of the inclusion of the word “knowingly,” the mens rea carries a subjective intent component. It is not enough to merely utter the words which constitute the threat. The accused must utter the words with the intent that the threat be taken seriously or to intimidate. It does not matter whether the accused meant to carry out the threat. As a result, the trial judge must be satisfied that the accused meant that the words uttered would be taken seriously or would intimidate the complainant (see McCraw, at pp. 81-82; R. v. K.W.B. (1993), 85 Man.R. (2d) 220 (C.A.); and Clemente,at pp. 762-63).

[1899]

Even more interesting is where Micks formal RCMP complaint is dealt with.

Now THAT might set a real precedent. Ultimately the biggest win here could be the RCMP directed to enforce court injunctions and be held in contempt if they don't. I have no idea if that is likely but I would love to see something like that.

GH - the injunction was heard and granted 10 days AFTER the incident which led to Mick being charged.

[BgBlkDg]

Friends, now retired have told me this for years and the frustration was/is very debilitating.

I was with the Alberta FS and had an opportunity to become a BC CO, back in the early '90s. I looked at the whole aboriginal mess in BC and AB and choose to not accept and then retired from the AFS. I was tired of these politics and the stress caused me hypertension even in my 40s......

The future looks kinda bleak for we average citizen hunters, IMO.

[REMINGTON JIM]

I would prefer that you did not quote me as saying what are actually RJ's comments.

I do not think that all RCMP officers are "goofs" and I worked with scores of them, many are brave, decent and honourable folks and I respect them.

The BC Provincial Police were no better and would also respond to Christy and her kind........an improvement?

Dewey- RE Read - I did not call the RCMP officers GOOFs - i called there Bosses the " POLITICIANs " out of Ottawa that CONTROL the RCMP Goofs ! and Christy will have to do for a while yet as the NDP would DESTROY things taking sides with the FNs in this prov ! jmo RJ

[tuner]

GH - the injunction was heard and granted 10 days AFTER the incident which led to Mick being charged.
If the injunction was granted, does it not affirm that the roadblock is,and more importantly WAS illegal?
Would it not have retroactive force? Just wondering.

[1899]

If the injunction was granted, does it not affirm that the roadblock is,and more importantly WAS illegal?
Would it not have retroactive force? Just wondering.

No. And even if it did, it would still not permit an individual to break the law. You can't say, "well they are breaking the law, so I can too".

Two completely separate issues.

[rzycio]

$50 coming your way EMT password is Legaldefense

[hogzotic]

Thanks rzycio appreciate the support

Mick McKee
Hd09hogrider@Gmail

[hogzotic]

The injunction was granted on the facts and then an enforcement order was issued directing the police to remove the roadblock. So the police had to . The judge said in his comments that blocking roads is illegal and made reference to those blocking the road are committing acts of mischief and intimidation. So the road block was illegal from the moment it went up. It was the RCMP's lack of action in taking it down that necessitated the BCWF to go to court and get the injunction so the police were ordered to do it.

Hd09hogrider@gmail.com

[hogzotic]

To 1899- Section 27 of the Criminal Code allows you to use reasonable force to stop someone from committing offenses against you. (Force that on its own may be defined as assault) to stop them .

Mick McKee
Hd09hogrider@Gmail

[1899]

To 1899- Section 27 of the Criminal Code allows you to use reasonable force to stop someone from committing offenses against you. (Force that on its own may be defined as assault) to stop them .

Mick McKee
Hd09hogrider@Gmail

Only if the offence being committed is "likely to cause immediate and serious injury to the person or property of anyone" - i.e. "self defence".

Given that these are public forums I would not post anything about what I thought, felt, considered, knew etc relating to an incident that led to charges against me.

[hogzotic]

To 1899
You quoted ii
Read i-Eveyone is justified in using as much force as is REASONABLY NECESSARY to prevent the commission of an offence
ii)-for which, if it were committed, the person who committed it might be arrested without warrant. So mischief is a dual procedure offence and as such the person committing it may be arrested without warrant . Therefore, you are justified to use reasonable force to prevent the commission of the offence and furthermore to prevent anything being done...he believes would if it were done, be an offence...
I just don't want folks on this forum to be mislead.

[tinhorse]

Guys and Gals, lets not get into a pissing match here about wording around laws. What Hogzotic is going through and doing should just be left as great for hunters. Lets let the lawyers and courts decide if he did it appropriately or not. Why try and call him down when we should be boosting him up like others earlier in this thread.

[Pemby_mess]

Guys and Gals, lets not get into a pissing match here about wording around laws. What Hogzotic is going through and doing should just be left as great for hunters. Lets let the lawyers and courts decide if he did it appropriately or not. Why try and call him down when we should be boosting him up like others earlier in this thread.

I, for one, am really interested in the obviously very knowledgeable opinions of some of the posters. Both the member raising money and 1899 have a lot of grounded reasoning on this. It's obviously the outcome that is ultimately consequential, but access to their brains and individual understandings allows us to dig deeper philosophically. It's more important that the community understands the details surrounding legal decisions that effect us vs building the perceived righteousness of any one person's actions.

[1899]

To 1899
You quoted ii
Read i-Eveyone is justified in using as much force as is REASONABLY NECESSARY to prevent the commission of an offence
ii)-for which, if it were committed, the person who committed it might be arrested without warrant. So mischief is a dual procedure offence and as such the person committing it may be arrested without warrant . Therefore, you are justified to use reasonable force to prevent the commission of the offence and furthermore to prevent anything being done...he believes would if it were done, be an offence...
I just don't want folks on this forum to be mislead.

I don't want them to be misled either. Which is why I am providing relevant information.


27 Every one is justified in using as much force as is reasonably necessary


(a) to prevent the commission of an offence

(i) for which, if it were committed, the person who committed it might be arrested without warrant, and
(ii) that would be likely to cause immediate and serious injury to the person or property of anyone; or


(b) to prevent anything being done that, on reasonable grounds, he believes would, if it were done, be an offence mentioned in paragraph (a).



So in response to whether I or ii is applicable, note the "and" between the two subsections. Which goes back to what I stated in the earlier post - s.27 kicks in only if the offence would likely cause immediate and serious injury...




Guys and Gals, lets not get into a pissing match here about wording around laws. What Hogzotic is going through and doing should just be left as great for hunters. Lets let the lawyers and courts decide if he did it appropriately or not. Why try and call him down when we should be boosting him up like others earlier in this thread.

Tinhorse - not trying to call him down at all. Just injecting a dose of reality into a conversation that has a lot of passion and anger fueling some posts. What is happening is not great for hunters. IMHO what would have been great is for a hunter to show up to the blockade with the RCMP in tow AFTER the BCWF did the heavy lifting to get the injunction in place. Then to record what the RCMP did, or did not do, to enforce the injunction and allow the hunter(s) to pass the blockade.

Then the RCMP and government would have been put in a tight spot - enforce a court order or show the public that FN are above the law.

Here is a copy of the injunction:
http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2016/2016bcsc1944/2016bcsc1944.pdf

[The Hermit]

I, for one, am really interested in the obviously very knowledgeable opinions of some of the posters. Both the member raising money and 1899 have a lot of grounded reasoning on this. It's obviously the outcome that is ultimately consequential, but access to their brains and individual understandings allows us to dig deeper philosophically. It's more important that the community understands the details surrounding legal decisions that effect us vs building the perceived righteousness of any one person's actions.

What he said ^^. Save the righteous indignation until the matter is resolved one way or the other then call on and support politicians both Federal and Provincial that are willing to support your position, thoughts, needs, and feelings.

[Pemby_mess]

That all sounds exceptionally reasonable. I hadn't realized that this took place before the injunction.

Something is nagging at me though. And I'm having trouble seeing how it makes any difference in this particular scenario.

humour me for a moment:

I decide one day to go into Stanley park, and a schizophrenic meth addict gets it into his head that I have no right to recreate there. So he dances all around me in hysterics, puts his body up against mine in order to intimidate me and ultimately prevent my passing. I can't then push him out of the way and go about my personal business? If so, it would be assault?

What's different here? Unequal match of using the vehicle? There's only one other plain language difference that I can discern , but won't mention it on a public forum.

[elknut]

I'm with you Pemby -Mess...The thing is the FN jumped in front of the truck of his own accord ..He put his own life in danger..No different than me running out in the freeway and someone smucking me ...then the RCMP charge the driver that hit me with assault ..The weak case here is the threating to burn the place down in my opinion ..Dennis

[1899]

That all sounds exceptionally reasonable. I hadn't realized that this took place before the injunction.

Something is nagging at me though. And I'm having trouble seeing how it makes any difference in this particular scenario.

humour me for a moment:

I decide one day to go into Stanley park, and a schizophrenic meth addict gets it into his head that I have no right to recreate there. So he dances all around me in hysterics, puts his body up against mine in order to intimidate me and ultimately prevent my passing. I can't then push him out of the way and go about my personal business? If so, it would be assault?

What's different here? Unequal match of using the vehicle? There's only one other plain language difference that I can discern , but won't mention it on a public forum.

I don't want to speculate about various scenarios - other than to say one has to think "how can I avoid this situation"? That is really what the "law" wants - leave it up to the LEO, if at all possible.

[Pemby_mess]

I don't want to speculate about various scenarios - other than to say one has to think "how can I avoid this situation"? That is really what the "law" wants - leave it up to the LEO, if at all possible.

Ok I hear ya. Thanks and had a feeling it was something to do with that. Well, I still am going to be following with interest and wish Mick the best of luck with it.

I still ill feel it's unfortunate that he was charged. Nobody was hurt. Sometimes I wish the Law could act more like an old school HS principle in these situations:

"shake hands and make up!" finger wagging, "now let the authorities handle it next time!"

lol

[hogzotic]

I believe in going thru that roadblock that I was "out there on the edge" and that serious injury to myself or my property was a very real possibility. This was later validated by the barrage of death and serious injury threats posted on Facebook. I was one guy, alone and there were more people at the roadblock and two buildings there that clearly could have been housing more. So I feel section 27 is relevant. The use of force/self defense sections of the cc often overlap and section 34 (1) Everyone who is unlawfully assaulted ....(Assault being defined as-Everyone commits an assault when without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to that other person, directly or indirectly)....without provoking the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.
I don't think there is any hunter on this post that has been turned away at the roadblock that would say that he would not have felt serious injury to himself or his property was not a real possibility, if he had tried to go thru. I believe that natives manning that blockade are applying force to the hunters going thru and further by stepping infront of my truck, banging on the hood and pushing my vehicle is applying force to me without my consent as I try to drive around the roadblock. Therefore he is assaulting me. So i can use force to repel force. I didn't provoke it, I was just driving down the road to go hunting and even after I cut the logs etc, I clearly try to drive around the roadblock taking my truck and Trailer into the ditch.
I think my actions were restrained and that the force I used was not excessive and only that necessary to stop the offences being committed against me.

[DarekG]

Curious what would happen if a bunch of resident hunters decided to set up their own roadblock a few KM before theirs? Would the RCMP show up?

[BCLongshot]

I feel bad for you Mick...this issue has been going on for a long time.

Obviously frustrating and more so now that it's going to court. You know now it's showtime and at least nobody can or should be able to be dramatic.

Legal counsel will be extremely important.

[hogzotic]

To BC longshot-I meet with my lawyer tomorrow at 130 pm. He was referred to me as being a good criminal lawyer. I will see what he says about the case. I feel pretty strongly that what I did was reasonable with no intention of hurting anyone. Being by myself I did think that when I started to dismantle and bucked up the roadblock that my ass was hanging out there and I could very well have gotten hurt or my property destroyed. That was a very real possibility.

[1899]

I believe in going thru that roadblock that I was "out there on the edge" and that serious injury to myself or my property was a very real possibility. This was later validated by the barrage of death and serious injury threats posted on Facebook. I was one guy, alone and there were more people at the roadblock and two buildings there that clearly could have been housing more. So I feel section 27 is relevant. The use of force/self defense sections of the cc often overlap and section 34 (1) Everyone who is unlawfully assaulted (Assault being defined as-Everyone committed an assault when without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to that other person, directly or indirectly)without provoking the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.
I don't think there is any hunter on this post that has been turned away at the roadblock that would say that he would not have felt serious injury to himself or his property was not a real possibility, if he had tried to go thru. I believe that natives manning that blockade are applying force to the hunters going thru and further by stepping infront of my truck, banging on the hood and pushing my vehicle is applying force to me without my consent as I try to drive around the roadblock. Therefore he is assaulting me. I didn't provoke it, I was just driving down the road to go hunting and even after I cut the logs etc, I clearly try to drive around the roadblock taking my truck and Trailer into the ditch.
I think my actions were restrained and that the force I used was not excessive and only that necessary to stop the offences being committed against me.

Note highlight. But as you know, it's not me you have to convince. You could give George Leven a call - excellent lawyer and an avid hunter. If I were you I'd be prepared to answer - "why didn't you just turn around?" and "you knew there was an RCMP station in Dease Lake, right?" and "you could have called and asked the RCMP for assistance if you needed to pass, right?" etc etc - and forget the moral and principled issues as those don't count.

I think the situation may be viewed very differently if you were in prior to the roadblock and trying to get out.

[northernbc]

1899 you sound pretty knowledgable,please try to help him .to me it feels like you are busy pointing out what you think is wrong with his case as apposed to helping. Just describing my feelings after reading this post thru again

[Jagermeister]

As we have seen on this thread, those that have a vested interest from the other side are paying attention to what is transpiring herein. There is no sense in us providing fodder for the other side.
Instead, those of you who have a Facebook account should be complaining to Facebook how the Klabona Keeper page is fostering racist hate, law breaking. Perhaps the Klabona Keeper account would be closed down.

[wideopenthrottle]

lets face it...mick actually DID what a large number of us tough guys SAY we would do....he deserves our support

[Jagermeister]

1899 you sound pretty knowledgable,please try to help him .to me it feels like you are busy pointing out what you think is wrong with his case as apposed to helping. Just describing my feelings after reading this post thru again
I think constructive criticism is quite beneficial. Better to know where the weak points are so you can be prepared to refute them.

[hogzotic]

As I said earlier in a post, and also in my complaint to the RCMP, when I arrived at the roadblock I told those guys they were breaking the law and the police could be called, they told me the police had already been there and did nothing. I believed them and I later confirmed this was true. There is no cell service at the blockade. I also believe I don't have to turn around, I have a right to go hunting.

[hogzotic]

I think a lot of hunters on this post feel the same way. We LOVE hunting. We prep and plan and think about it all year. I love being out in the bush, all senses on high alert, scanning for sign, listening to every noise, watching my wind, and moving slowly thru the bush. We are law abiding hunters and respect the great outdoors. So when we run into an illegal road block it is very frustrating to us. I stand by what I did and whether I get convicted or not, I feel I acted with restraint and that what I did was right. I can't change that...I won't. I am not going to meet with a lawyer and try to manufacture a defense. What I felt that day...what I feel today is what I'm going to tell the judge. I've never lied on the stand in 34.3 years of being a lawman. Not going to start now. And if I lose and people start slamming me, I'll live with that. I stand tall for what I believe is right and that is not going to change. My goal is to try and insure that the Ealue lake road is open next year and that licenced resident hunters can go into that vast country and enjoy themselves.

[northernbc]

Yes Jaegermeister you are probably right,I am just very frustrated with this whole mess. And while I was making my last post 1899 came up with some helpful points.thanks 1899!

[1899]

1899 you sound pretty knowledgable,please try to help him .to me it feels like you are busy pointing out what you think is wrong with his case as apposed to helping. Just describing my feelings after reading this post thru again

Pointing out what is wrong with a case focuses the issue - anyone can cheer a fellow on, especially in a situation where there is passion and a feeling that "he did the right thing". How many of us dreamed we had the fortitude to do what he actually did? Lots of folks post here about how they would do this, they would do that - OP isn't a keyboard warrior - he actually did it. So we celebrate that. BUT, there can be consequences to these actions. I've posted enough that people can at least seriously turn their minds to potential consequences, and the law behind such charges, before making a decision on how to deal with such a situation this fall. It helps other people from falling into the same situation.

The other issue is the idea that BCWF should foot the bill for his defence, and that the failure to do so somehow brings disrepute to the BCWF. I hope my posts show why they ought not to do so.

All the best to him and I hope he stops posting any more justifications or reasoning behind his actions.

[hogzotic]

I have never said anything bad about the BCWF and I won't. You were right when you said they did the heavy lifting...they did...and got the injunction in place. They also entertained funding me and sent a proposal thru to their president. But it is not within their mandate to defend people charged with criminal offences. I totally get that and I was just appreciative that they entertained it. They did mention they would take my plight to their membership. They got things done as fast as they could to try to save a hunting season for their members and I commend them for a job well done.

[snipersights]

Good for you man. Great to see there's still some mens men out there who stand up and take a stand.

[RiverOtter]

I have never said anything bad about the BCWF and I won't. You were right when you said they did the heavy lifting...they did...and got the injunction in place. They also entertained funding me and sent a proposal thru to their president. But it is not within their mandate to defend people charged with criminal offences. I totally get that and I was just appreciative that they entertained it. They did mention they would take my plight to their membership. They got things done as fast as they could to try to save a hunting season for their members and I commend them for a job well done.

Do they have a mandate against fuel, food and accommodation reimbursement, while you're defending yourself?

[guest]

I have never said anything bad about the BCWF and I won't. You were right when you said they did the heavy lifting...they did...and got the injunction in place. They also entertained funding me and sent a proposal thru to their president. But it is not within their mandate to defend people charged with criminal offences. I totally get that and I was just appreciative that they entertained it. They did mention they would take my plight to their membership. They got things done as fast as they could to try to save a hunting season for their members and I commend them for a job well done.

good to hear ..... Well said.

[HarryToolips]

I think a lot of hunters on this post feel the same way. We LOVE hunting. We prep and plan and think about it all year. I love being out in the bush, all senses on high alert, scanning for sign, listening to every noise, watching my wind, and moving slowly thru the bush. We are law abiding hunters and respect the great outdoors. So when we run into an illegal road block it is very frustrating to us. I stand by what I did and whether I get convicted or not, I feel I acted with restraint and that what I did was right. I can't change that...I won't. I am not going to meet with a lawyer and try to manufacture a defense. What I felt that day...what I feel today is what I'm going to tell the judge. I've never lied on the stand in 34.3 years of being a lawman. Not going to start now. And if I lose and people start slamming me, I'll live with that. I stand tall for what I believe is right and that is not going to change. My goal is to try and insure that the Ealue lake road is open next year and that licenced resident hunters can go into that vast country and enjoy themselves.

Our hats are off to you sir, you did an admirable thing...you stood up for not only your rights, but the rights of all resident hunters, all the best to you, and like you said, hopefully this will be open next year and for years to come for every licenced resident hunter to pursue they're legal right to hunt there..

[f350ps]

So, to try and get this thread back to the original intent, EMT just sent Mick, good luck and thanks for standing up for the resident hunter! K

[hogzotic]

Thank you f350ps for the contribution, I'll message you for the password. It didn't like legal defense.
Just to advise my lawyer meeting got postponed till Thursday at 2 PM as my lawyer has to go to Prince rupert tomorrow and it's snowing here so he may not get back in time. My defense fund is now at $2500.00. Thanks to all for your generosity!!

Mick McKee
Hd09hogrider@Gmail

[REMINGTON JIM]

Hi Mick - I said i would Help out so there is a EMT just sent to you - Good LUCK in your-our battle against the law breaking FNs up there in the Klappan - and as f350 said THANKs :wink: for standing up for ALL the BC resident LEGAL hunters ! Your all our HERO there Buddy ! :-D

Cheers RJ

[hogzotic]

Thanks Jim I appreciate the contribution . All the best, Mick
Hd09hogrider@gmail.com

[Vanislehiker]

EMT sent Mick thank you for standing up for our rights. following closely. Password: bigmoose

[hogzotic]

Thanks Kyle I appreciate the contribution.

Mick McKee
Hd09hogrider@Gmail

[hogzotic]

I just talked to a wildlife biologist in Smithers about the latest survey information for moose populations in the Klappan River area. He said the latest survey was in February of 2016. He said the report is not ready for publishing yet but he will send me a summary next week. He said the moose population in the area is doing fine. He said the previous survey for that area was in the early 2000's. He said the population is down slightly from the early 2000's but that they expect some fluctuations in moose numbers. It's natural. Bottom line-the moose population in the area is doing fine!!

[BCLongshot]

I just talked to a wildlife biologist in Smithers about the latest survey information for moose populations in the Klappan River area. He said the latest survey was in February of 2016. He said the report is not ready for publishing yet but he will send me a summary next week. He said the moose population in the area is doing fine. He said the previous survey for that area was in the early 2000's. He said the population is down slightly from the early 2000's but that they expect some fluctuations in moose numbers. It's natural. Bottom line-the moose population in the area is doing fine!!

Crazy...survey done 12 months ago and not ready for publishing yet ?...and that's 'normal'...isn't it 2017

No wonder we have trust issues !!!

[hogzotic]

Yeah I was kinda wondering why it has been a year and it's not finished but I don't know their workload and it is a big province

[hogzotic]

Well..I have retained a lawyer here in Terrace and he has just done some very preliminary work on the file. With respect to the first charge of assault with a weapon, he feels I have a very legitimate defense in that the native at the roadblock is forcible confining my movement down the road and I have a right to use reasonable force to stop that. He does not feel the force I used was unreasonable.
The second charge of utter threats to burn may be problematic. He will do a more thorough file review and we will meet later to discuss in detail.
The budget for the trial is going to be in the $8000.00 range . I have raised $2675.00 to date in my defense fund and many thanks to all those who donated.
Mick McKee
Hd09hogrider@Gmail

[CodyRules]

So your saying because I find employment in the city I shouldn't be able to hunt! Yeah you can go ahead a blow me

[BgBlkDg]

WHO, exactly are you referring to, the aboriginal terrorists on the blockade?

[Lastcar]

WHO, exactly are you referring to, the aboriginal terrorists on the blockade?

My guess if the chump who many posts back suggested you should only be able to hunt in the MU you reside. Or region anyways...

Clearly, a troll who hopefully is not a fellow BC hunter but rather someone who showed up to derail things on this thread.

[Lastcar]

So your saying because I find employment in the city I shouldn't be able to hunt! Yeah you can go ahead a blow me

Use the quote function when you can, helps keep posts in context. Assume you are replying to the guy who said you should only be allowed to hunt in the region you reside?

[CodyRules]

Use the quote function when you can, helps keep posts in context. Assume you are replying to the guy who said you should only be allowed to hunt in the region you reside?

Yes, I'm sorry I meant to have the quote added ! I just don't understand why I should only be able to hunt the region I live in! To suggest something so crazy blows my mind , I've only been hunting for a handful of years but I don't get why hunters think they own the area they live in or near.

[Wild one]

Yes, I'm sorry I meant to have the quote added ! I just don't understand why I should only be able to hunt the region I live in! To suggest something so crazy blows my mind , I've only been hunting for a handful of years but I don't get why hunters think they own the area they live in or near.

Would not get hung up on it as it will never happen

I come across this mentality from a small portion of hunters. They often live in areas that many out of town hunters travel to.

[CodyRules]

I wasn't trying to derail the thread guys my bad!

[hogzotic]

Don't worry about it, Cody rules. It was a ridiculous comment. About as silly as the as the Tahltans thinking they own all the moose in the klappan. You have a right to hunt anywhere there is an open season that you are licenced for

[hogzotic]

I was at the hockey rink watching my son play and the local RCMP Sargeant came and sat beside advising that my formal complaint against the Dease lake RCMP FOR failing to keep the Ealue Lake Road open was given to him to investigate. He wants to meet with me next week to discuss it. I feel it was necessary to lay a complaint to bring attention to Senior managers in the RCMP that the road needs to be kept open for all resource users in the area

[Ride Red]

I was at the hockey rink watching my son play and the local RCMP Sargeant came and sat beside advising that my formal complaint against the Dease lake RCMP FOR failing to keep the Ealue Lake Road open was given to him to investigate. He wants to meet with me next week to discuss it. I feel it was necessary to lay a complaint to bring attention to Senior managers in the RCMP that the road needs to be kept open for all resource users in the area

Hopefully the meeting goes well Mick. Keep us posted.

[ElectricDyck]

I think we should be careful lumping all the Tahltan people into a group opposing resident access. From what I heard while hunting there was there are a few families that stir the pot and work with the eco terrorists and others that sneak pass the road blocks to get to work at the mine, hardly a unified group manning road blocks religiously..

Again great work Mick, doing what I wished I had the balls to do..

[Red_Mist]

Your situation is exclusively the result of the RCMP doing nothing to protect residents of BC. Any "escalations" at road blocks are due to the RCMP enabling criminal activity.

[russm]

I think all of us white devils should set up a road block to keep them in their traditional territories if its that important to them, I wonder how quick that'd be broken up and plastered all over the news, I'd be willing to burn up some vacation time...

[hogzotic]

Yeah I stand corrected. Not all Tahltans support that roadblock bullshit. It's that Klabona Keepers crew.

[russm]

Just finished watching the videos on the FB page, it would appear most of them support that bullshit, quite a few death threat and threats of violence too.

[hogzotic]

Yeah lots of death threats and to my knowledge no one was investigated or charged.

[hogzotic]

Red Mist-I totally agree and that is why I laid a formal complaint against the RCMP

[turbolar]

How is it that the Klobona Keepers can have a site with death threats to any residents of our country and not be charged ? I dont get who the hell makes the laws of this country, talk about a double standard, it would seem they make the laws as it suites them. Because our laws dont apply to them they are above our laws. Maybe we need good old west coast justice. This bull shit needs to end. I think your a hell of a big man for standing up for your rights. I dont hunt in that area but next time you need a hand going through the road block to hunt send me a message and i will bring some other concerned citizens, then we can all get on the front page of the news paper, seems like we need to speek louder to be heard as a second rate citizen in our own country.(please send me your info so i can donate to your fight for all our rights to be equal) TIME FOR US ALL TO STAND AND END THIS BULL SHIT !!!!!!!!!!!!

[hogzotic]

Hey Tubolar-I'm still hopeful that with my case going forward and the complaint against the police for standing around and not doing their job, that the road is hopefully open next year for all to enjoy. Would be nice to share a rum and cigar with some of the brothers on this site . If you wish to donate to my defence you can send an e-transfer to hd09hogrider@gmail.com.
Thanks for the words of support!!

Mick McKee
Kermodeinvestigations.ca

[turbolar]

Sent e-transfer (klappan). Please keep us informed of proceedings. Larry

[hogzotic]

Thanks Larry for the very generous contribution. I really appreciate it.
Mick McKee
Kermodeinvestigations ca

[.300Tikka]

[QUOTE=turbolar;1885912]How is it that the Klobona Keepers can have a site with death threats to any residents of our country and not be charged ? I dont get who the hell makes the laws of this country, talk about a double standard, it would seem they make the laws as it suites them. Because our laws dont apply to them they are above our laws. Maybe we need good old west coast justice. This bull shit needs to end. I think your a hell of a big man for standing up for your rights. I dont hunt in that area but next time you need a hand going through the road block to hunt send me a message and i will bring some other concerned citizens, then we can all get on the front page of the news paper, seems like we need to speek louder to be heard as a second rate citizen in our own country.(please send me your info so i can donate to your fight for all our rights to be equal) TIME FOR US ALL TO STAND AND END THIS BULL SHIT !!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE


report there F B page to face book ,we all did at home here !!! Only got one shot at it tho,the more that do they'll have do something bout it

[turbolar]

Thanks i will do that 300Tikka, The sooner we crush these turds, the sooner we can all be equal. Dont get me wrong i have a lot of native friends and these few turds dont speek for all natives on this matter.

[scott h]

You are way out of line, you are the very reason that First Nations hate residents, have you seen the crap up and down the rivers and trails and the so called cashes that residents leave behind? Are you one if the hunters that goes in and shoots a moose takes the 4 quarters and leaves the rest? You are plain and simply being charged for an illegal activity and when the rest of the world gets into trouble we don't go begging for money.
There were moose hunters in that area last year useing a drone for spotting.... i am a resident hunter of bc and i question what you are making us all look like.

While there are slob hunters out there giving hunters everywhere a bad name, there is a 50-50 chance that those slobs are first nation.

[scott h]

Actually after watching the video on facebook there appears to be no assault.

[Darksith]

I think a lot of hunters on this post feel the same way. We LOVE hunting. We prep and plan and think about it all year. I love being out in the bush, all senses on high alert, scanning for sign, listening to every noise, watching my wind, and moving slowly thru the bush. We are law abiding hunters and respect the great outdoors. So when we run into an illegal road block it is very frustrating to us. I stand by what I did and whether I get convicted or not, I feel I acted with restraint and that what I did was right. I can't change that...I won't. I am not going to meet with a lawyer and try to manufacture a defense. What I felt that day...what I feel today is what I'm going to tell the judge. I've never lied on the stand in 34.3 years of being a lawman. Not going to start now. And if I lose and people start slamming me, I'll live with that. I stand tall for what I believe is right and that is not going to change. My goal is to try and insure that the Ealue lake road is open next year and that licenced resident hunters can go into that vast country and enjoy themselves.

I fully support your actions,

But if your not willing to hire a lawyer why are you asking for donations? Sorry maybe its already been stated...if so just direct me to the post #. This isn't a fight I would personally do without a lawyer

[j270wsm]

He hired a lawyer from terrace

[Tuffcity]

Darksith, see post 220.

RC

[hogzotic]

Darkseth-I have hired a lawyer-Bryan Crampton from Terrace. He is appearing for me today in Terrace Provincial Court. I understand he is going to put the matter over to March 21st to fix a date for trial.
Mick McKee
Hd09hogrider@Gmail

[hogzotic]

The trial is going to cost around $8000 due to the fact it is going to be in Dease Lake. My lawyer may try for a change in venue due to the amount of death threats. I expect it to be a bit of a gong show in Dease Lake with a lot of natives trying to cause me problems going in and out of court. Nothing I can't deal with. Following a very generous contribution from Tubolar, my defence fund is at $3200.00. Many thanks to all!!
Mick McKee
Hd09hogrider@Gmail