Why hunt Grizz?

[AgSilver]

This question is NOT even remotely a critical one - just want to learn more.

I was listening to the most recent Meat Eater podcast last night and something that I took away from it (if I understood it properly) is that predators (grizz, in particular, as the focus of the cast) don't have a seriously detrimental impact on ungulate population, generally (although, it appears wolves may be the exception, here). I'm paraphrasing and maybe misunderstood...was walking the dog and carrying a heavy pack at the time, so forgive me if I'm wrong.

So my question is essentially "what's the draw to grizzly hunting?" (I've seen a lot of threads lately with people very excited about it)

1. Meat - some people say it's gross. Others say it's taste as good or better than black bear. So if it's not meat, then...?

2. Predator control in an effort to assist ungulate populations - see above. If not that, then...?

3. Pelts - most of us don't wear grizzly skins but I guess several people have rugs. Or have them hung, in some instances. This is something that I would refer to as a "trophy" reason for hunting.

4. It's just cool - shooting a big bear is basically an assertion of dominance over nature. This would also be "trophy" reasoning, to my mind.

5. Revenge - see "The Revenant".


For the people that don't eat the meat, I'm guessing it's mostly #2 with side benefits of 3 & 4, is that right? And then I'm guessing there are several people whose main reasons are either 3 or 4, but figure that #2 justifies that. Is that fair?

I'm also guessing that #5 doesn't apply to many of us.

I'm seriously not judging any of those reasons - It's legal and that's all there is to it. I'm trying to decide if I might hunt black bear this spring, myself. I just want to better understand reasoning for the grizz hunt.

[wideopenthrottle]

they steal pickinick baskets......sorry I couldn't resist

but in all seriousness I am considering a gbear hunt to help keep their numbers from exploding not because one stole a deer out of our camp (#5)

[Travalanche]

6. The challenge

[moosinaround]

I hunt grizz firstly, to aid in the management of the species. I hunt grizz because I can hunt grizz. I hunt grizz because it's the ultimate prey animal where I reside, and if I kill one it is because I was the ultimate predator!! I hunt grizz because I enjoy recreating in the habitat the grizz lives in. Moosin

[Hublocker]

According to the GOABC (love 'em or hate 'em) the current hunter harvest rate is approximately 2%, which is significantly less than the maximum human-caused mortality of 5% stipulated in the Grizzly Bear Harvest Management Procedure.

If that is true, then it would be a false and indeed arrogant assumption to imagine that shooting one bear was going to assist in any way at all in management of the species or to keep the population from exploding.

[wideopenthrottle]

According to the GOABC (love 'em or hate 'em) the current hunter harvest rate is approximately 2%, which is significantly less than the maximum human-caused mortality of 5% stipulated in the Grizzly Bear Harvest Management Procedure.

If that is true, then it would be a false and indeed arrogant assumption to imagine that shooting one bear was going to assist in any way at all in management of the species or to keep the population from exploding.

I am only 1 hunter of many so yes my kills will always be irrelevant but together we can make a difference

[bloody bellies]

thrill of the hunt for such a dangerous predator, and the rug

[srupp]

Hmmm most fun you can have with your clothes on..lol
I truly love spring bear hunting..as much as summer sheep..or fall moose..
The challenge of taking on the prime apex predator on in his domain..
Interior grizz meat has a nice bite to it..lol..
Cheers
Srupp

[todbartell]

I enjoy being out in remote, beautiful mountains in the spring, carrying a big rifle. Grizzly is king of our jungles, just being out there with a chance to take such an animal is why I go. It's the experience and memories

[Stone Sheep Steve]

According to the GOABC (love 'em or hate 'em) the current hunter harvest rate is approximately 2%, which is significantly less than the maximum human-caused mortality of 5% stipulated in the Grizzly Bear Harvest Management Procedure.

If that is true, then it would be a false and indeed arrogant assumption to imagine that shooting one bear was going to assist in any way at all in management of the species or to keep the population from exploding.

This is true. Grizzlies are 'managed' so hunting mortality doesnt affect the population. Grizzlies are compulsory inspected so all legal harvest is known. If too many sows are shot, the number of tags is reduced in subsequent years.

This is important when defending the hunt as it is sustainable.

Hunted animals are much more wary of humans which is good for both bears and people.

SSS

[two-feet]

Because we hairless apes are predators. Because bears are a renewable resource managed in a sustainable way. Because the meat and/or fur are wonderful, usable, natural products.

[rocksteady]

7 bucket list

[monasheemountainman]

Because we hairless apes are predators. Because bears are a renewable resource managed in a sustainable way. Because the meat and/or fur are wonderful, usable, natural products.nice I like this answer, ill go with that one too!

[J-F]

Hunted animals are much more wary of humans which is good for both bears and people.



For me, this is the biggest reason I see to hunt them, keep them at their place i.e. just under the top predator walking on two legs.

The other reason I will probably apply for next year is to help ungulate populations. The experience made in Yellowstone with radio-collared elk calves has shown us their impact on the renewal of elk populations, even if they are not the only ones to make an impact.

[AgSilver]

6. The challenge

I'll put that in #4, realistically.


I hunt grizz firstly, to aid in the management of the species. I hunt grizz because I can hunt grizz. I hunt grizz because it's the ultimate prey animal where I reside, and if I kill one it is because I was the ultimate predator!! I hunt grizz because I enjoy recreating in the habitat the grizz lives in. Moosin

#2 and #4, then.


thrill of the hunt for such a dangerous predator, and the rug

#4 and #3


Hmmm most fun you can have with your clothes on..lol
I truly love spring bear hunting..as much as summer sheep..or fall moose..
The challenge of taking on the prime apex predator on in his domain..
Interior grizz meat has a nice bite to it..lol..
Cheers
Srupp

#4 and #1


I enjoy being out in remote, beautiful mountains in the spring, carrying a big rifle. Grizzly is king of our jungles, just being out there with a chance to take such an animal is why I go. It's the experience and memories

#4 then, I think


This is true. Grizzlies are 'managed' so hunting mortality doesnt affect the population. Grizzlies are compulsory inspected so all legal harvest is known. If too many sows are shot, the number of tags is reduced in subsequent years.

This is important when defending the hunt as it is sustainable.

Hunted animals are much more wary of humans which is good for both bears and people.

SSS

There could be a #6 re because it's sustainable and regulated...but that's not a reason to do it as much as a "why it's okay". There's a bit of #2 in here for the "wariness" aspect as a subset of "predator control."


Because we hairless apes are predators. Because bears are a renewable resource managed in a sustainable way. Because the meat and/or fur are wonderful, usable, natural products.

#4 and #1/#3


7 bucket list

Probably still #4, I'd think.



Hunted animals are much more wary of humans which is good for both bears and people.



For me, this is the biggest reason I see to hunt them, keep them at their place i.e. just under the top predator walking on two legs.

The other reason I will probably apply for next year is to help ungulate populations. The experience made in Yellowstone with radio-collared elk calves has shown us their impact on the renewal of elk populations, even if they are not the only ones to make an impact.

#2, for sure.



Thanks, pretty interesting replies. I'm surprised at how little #1 there is, though. I thought more people would say they eat the meat.

[J-F]

I'll get a black bear for the meat.

[Gateholio]

Grizzly is BC's only true "dangerous game" species. Sure, moose, black bear, cougar and bison can be dangerous at times, but grizzly stands out. You are picking a fight with something that will fight back, so it's pretty effing exciting.

[Gateholio]

Also, I eat bear meat- black or grizz.

[boxhitch]

One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted.

If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it. What he is after is having to win it, to conquer the surly brute through his own effort and skill with all the extras that this carries with it: the immersion in the countryside, the healthfulness of the exercise, the distraction from his job.

In all of this, the moral problem of hunting has not been resolved. We have not reached ethical perfection in hunting. One never achieves perfection in anything, and perhaps it exists precisely so that one can never achieve it. Its purpose is to orient our conduct and to allow us to measure the progress accomplished. In this sense, the advancement achieved in the ethics of hunting is undeniable. Therefore it is necessary to oppose photographic hunting, which is not progress but rather a digression and a prudery of hideous moral style.

Every authentic refinement must leave intact the authenticity of the hunt, its essential structure, which is a matter of a confrontation between two unequal species. The real care that man must exercise is not in pretending to make the beast equal to him, because that is a stupid utopian, beatific farce, but rather in avoiding more and more the excess of his superiority. Hunting is the free play of an inferior species in the face of a superior species. That is where one must make some refinement. Man must give the animal a "handicap," in order to place him as close as possible to his own level. The essence of sportive hunting is not raising the animal to the level of man, but something much more spiritual than that: a conscious and almost religious humbling of man which limits his superiority and lowers him toward the animal.

I have said "religious," and the word does not seem excessive to me. A fascinating mystery of nature is manifested in the universal fact of hunting: the inexorable hierarchy among living beings. Every animal is in a relationship of superiority or inferiority with regard to every other. Strict equality is exceedingly improbable and anomalous.

Life is a terrible conflict, a grandiose and atrocious confluence. Hunting submerges man deliberately in that formidable mystery and therefore contains something of religious rite and emotion in which homage is paid to what is divine, transcendent, in the laws of nature.

- From Meditations on Hunting by José Ortega y Gasset.

[Stone C. Killer]

I hunt grizz because I believe in conservation and taking advantage of hunting opportunities. If nobody did it the chance to hunt grizz and get out into the spring mountains would be lost. I like spring hunting and find it very refreshing after the winter.

[Dougielightning]

Because I'm a hunter it's in our blood, just as the grizzly hunts it's prey!! Humans have been hunting for thousands of years. The feeling I get when I'm on the mountain confirms this and I know it to be true. Pure and simple.

[Travalanche]

I'll put that in #4, realistically.



#2 and #4, then.



#4 and #3



#4 and #1



#4 then, I think



There could be a #6 re because it's sustainable and regulated...but that's not a reason to do it as much as a "why it's okay". There's a bit of #2 in here for the "wariness" aspect as a subset of "predator control."



#4 and #1/#3



Probably still #4, I'd think.




#2, for sure.



Thanks, pretty interesting replies. I'm surprised at how little #1 there is, though. I thought more people would say they eat the meat.

Its good to know we have a resident psychiatrist we can consult when we need to be told the reasoning behind the reasons we have given. Thanks for free consult!

[Stone C. Killer]

There is also nothing like seeing a monster grizz up on the mtn and heading up after it to kill it. I wish I was blood thirsty murderer on those but its happened twice and still havent connected with a huuuuugggee one lol

[Hublocker]

Hunted animals are much more wary of humans which is good for both bears and people.



For me, this is the biggest reason I see to hunt them, keep them at their place i.e. just under the top predator walking on two legs.

The other reason I will probably apply for next year is to help ungulate populations. The experience made in Yellowstone with radio-collared elk calves has shown us their impact on the renewal of elk populations, even if they are not the only ones to make an impact.

I've always believed that to be a bogus argument. If we are all as good as we claim to be on these pages then a hunted animal is a dead animal. That's pretty educational I guess. Do the live ones in the next valley over get an email or what?

[sausage lover]

Because I'm a hunter it's in our blood, just as the grizzly hunts it's prey!! Humans have been hunting for thousands of years. The feeling I get when I'm on the mountain confirms this and I know it to be true. Pure and simple.This pretty much sums it up for me! Would also love to try Grizzly flesh cooked over a fire!

[Stone C. Killer]

I've always believed that to be a bogus argument. If we are all as good as we claim to be on these pages then a hunted animal is a dead animal. That's pretty educational I guess. Do the live ones in the next valley over get an email or what?

Sounds like you've never hunted before?

[Surrey Boy]

Because it makes the SPCA cry.

[Stone C. Killer]

This question is NOT even remotely a critical one - just want to learn more.

I was listening to the most recent Meat Eater podcast last night and something that I took away from it (if I understood it properly) is that predators (grizz, in particular, as the focus of the cast) don't have a seriously detrimental impact on ungulate population, generally (although, it appears wolves may be the exception, here). I'm paraphrasing and maybe misunderstood...was walking the dog and carrying a heavy pack at the time, so forgive me if I'm wrong.

So my question is essentially "what's the draw to grizzly hunting?" (I've seen a lot of threads lately with people very excited about it)

1. Meat - some people say it's gross. Others say it's taste as good or better than black bear. So if it's not meat, then...?

2. Predator control in an effort to assist ungulate populations - see above. If not that, then...?

3. Pelts - most of us don't wear grizzly skins but I guess several people have rugs. Or have them hung, in some instances. This is something that I would refer to as a "trophy" reason for hunting.

4. It's just cool - shooting a big bear is basically an assertion of dominance over nature. This would also be "trophy" reasoning, to my mind.

5. Revenge - see "The Revenant".


For the people that don't eat the meat, I'm guessing it's mostly #2 with side benefits of 3 & 4, is that right? And then I'm guessing there are several people whose main reasons are either 3 or 4, but figure that #2 justifies that. Is that fair?

I'm also guessing that #5 doesn't apply to many of us.

I'm seriously not judging any of those reasons - It's legal and that's all there is to it. I'm trying to decide if I might hunt black bear this spring, myself. I just want to better understand reasoning for the grizz hunt.

I just like the fur too. Is that wrong. Do I need to dominate nature to enjoy cuddling up on a grizz rug?

[two-feet]

I've always believed that to be a bogus argument. If we are all as good as we claim to be on these pages then a hunted animal is a dead animal. That's pretty educational I guess. Do the live ones in the next valley over get an email or what?
the bears that feel confident spending time in closer proximity to humans get harvested at a higher rate. Maybe that Darwin guy was on to something...

[Weatherby Fan]

Because they keep trying to steal our deer and elk hanging in camp.......pest control I say !

[Bear Chaser]

Because I have to.
I quit trying to rationalize it even to myself a long time ago.

[AgSilver]

Its good to know we have a resident psychiatrist we can consult when we need to be told the reasoning behind the reasons we have given. Thanks for free consult!

:rolleyes: If you prefer, I can "expand" on the very brief wording that I used in #4 from "It's cool" to "It's challenging and I want to conquer it." Or maybe that more or less falls under "dominating nature", don't you think? Or do you think it's a different reasoning simply because it's a different word choice?

[Dougielightning]

Yup I agree^^^ bearchaser . Good thread though important thanks

[BRrooster]

I have not hunted for or put in a LEH for Grizzly as of yet. I hunt Black Bear in the spring , more for the excuse to get out in the woods again than anything else. The two I have harvested were not wasted though. The meat was quite good , and much appreciated. I am a hunter, and the reasons for being a hunter have already been mentioned here. The challenge and the accomplishment , I think, are the key aspects that I am seeking. To someone who has never hunted, pulling a carrot out of the ground is not the same.
I read a book last year that detailed the account of a Grizzly Bear attack on a young couple and the years of recovery that followed. On my hunting trip in the Okanagan Region last year we saw a Grizz. Very close to where many people go camping , fishing, hiking, etc. If they knew that , would they still go there? I know that I don't want them that close my recreating area. Think I will be putting in for the "draw" for that area next season.

[AgSilver]

Because I'm a hunter it's in our blood, just as the grizzly hunts it's prey!! Humans have been hunting for thousands of years. The feeling I get when I'm on the mountain confirms this and I know it to be true. Pure and simple.

This is an interesting one. "I hunt because I can." Arguably, the grizzly hunts for food. I'm guessing (and I might be wrong, I'm no expert on animal behaviour) that the grizzly probably doesn't "waste" much of what it kills (by that I just mean that it eats most of it...although I know some is left for scavengers).


There is also nothing like seeing a monster grizz up on the mtn and heading up after it to kill it. I wish I was blood thirsty murderer on those but its happened twice and still havent connected with a huuuuugggee one lol

4, I think?


Because it makes the SPCA cry.

A category unto itself, for sure.


I just like the fur too. Is that wrong. Do I need to dominate nature to enjoy cuddling up on a grizz rug?

No judgment here, man...definitely not wrong! I think it'd just make me sweaty, though...


Because they keep trying to steal our deer and elk hanging in camp.......pest control I say !

Revanant #5!


Because I have to.
I quit trying to rationalize it even to myself a long time ago.

This fits in a bit with Dougie's comment above...I'd think.

[Caribou_lou]

I hunt Grizzly because I'm on the top of the food chain.

[Rackmastr]

:rolleyes: If you prefer, I can "expand" on the very brief wording that I used in #4 from "It's cool" to "It's challenging and I want to conquer it." Or maybe that more or less falls under "dominating nature", don't you think? Or do you think it's a different reasoning simply because it's a different word choice?

I think you are actually wrong to try and lump them all in your own self-made category when there are in fact several other opinions that don't agree with your "system" of deciding what "fits" where. Yes, they may fall under that for you, but I'd say there are several other reasons that people hunt ANY species so depending on whose list the definitions would all be different.

Just my thoughts on why there will be disagreement. I have a few reasons I hunt grizz, but they don't fall perfectly under your categories nor do I want them bunched how you see fit.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I've always believed that to be a bogus argument. If we are all as good as we claim to be on these pages then a hunted animal is a dead animal. That's pretty educational I guess. Do the live ones in the next valley over get an email or what?

Go to a National Park and see how animals behave differently towards humans than in areas where they are hunted.

[Stone C. Killer]

This question is NOT even remotely a critical one - just want to learn more.

I was listening to the most recent Meat Eater podcast last night and something that I took away from it (if I understood it properly) is that predators (grizz, in particular, as the focus of the cast) don't have a seriously detrimental impact on ungulate population, generally (although, it appears wolves may be the exception, here). I'm paraphrasing and maybe misunderstood...was walking the dog and carrying a heavy pack at the time, so forgive me if I'm wrong.

So my question is essentially "what's the draw to grizzly hunting?" (I've seen a lot of threads lately with people very excited about it)

1. Meat - some people say it's gross. Others say it's taste as good or better than black bear. So if it's not meat, then...?

2. Predator control in an effort to assist ungulate populations - see above. If not that, then...?

3. Pelts - most of us don't wear grizzly skins but I guess several people have rugs. Or have them hung, in some instances. This is something that I would refer to as a "trophy" reason for hunting.

4. It's just cool - shooting a big bear is basically an assertion of dominance over nature. This would also be "trophy" reasoning, to my mind.

5. Revenge - see "The Revenant".


For the people that don't eat the meat, I'm guessing it's mostly #2 with side benefits of 3 & 4, is that right? And then I'm guessing there are several people whose main reasons are either 3 or 4, but figure that #2 justifies that. Is that fair?

I'm also guessing that #5 doesn't apply to many of us.

I'm seriously not judging any of those reasons - It's legal and that's all there is to it. I'm trying to decide if I might hunt black bear this spring, myself. I just want to better understand reasoning for the grizz hunt.

Why would someone want to fish? They could just buy that meat in a store for cheaper.

[two-feet]

Mr silver: i also listened to that podcast and perhaps heard it differently, as in i thought the bio was saying that bears do account for quite a few dead elk calves.

Regardless, i feel yellowstone and other national parks should not be looked at as nature in its natural state, as humans do not hunt these animals. North america has been a hunting ground for humans for at least 15,000 years, this is the natural state.

Food for thought?

[albravo2]

thrill of the hunt for such a dangerous predator, and the rug

I haven't hunted griz yet, but these would be my reasons.

[Wild one]

I enjoy the hunt it self more than anything. The country I hunt them in and I find grizz an impressive animal

I enjoy eating and hunting bears in general look forward to it every spring

Really the ? Of why hunt any animal can be asked and many have different reasons. I hunt for the chase and enjoy game meat. I will also hunt/trap other preds for their hide and sell it

[huntingfamily]

I hunt. Therefore I am.

[Bear Brawler]

I hunt grizz firstly, to aid in the management of the species. I hunt grizz because I can hunt grizz. I hunt grizz because it's the ultimate prey animal where I reside, and if I kill one it is because I was the ultimate predator!! I hunt grizz because I enjoy recreating in the habitat the grizz lives in. Moosin
Very well said, you nailed it.

[untilthelastbeat]

This is an interesting one. "I hunt because I can." Arguably, the grizzly hunts for food. I'm guessing (and I might be wrong, I'm no expert on animal behaviour) that the grizzly probably doesn't "waste" much of what it kills (by that I just mean that it eats most of it...although I know some is left for scavengers).



4, I think?



A category unto itself, for sure.



No judgment here, man...definitely not wrong! I think it'd just make me sweaty, though...



Revanant #5!



This fits in a bit with Dougie's comment above...I'd think.

Actually your 100% wrong about grizzlies hunting for food. Grizzlies kill other animals because they know they can. Maybe they want to "dominate nature" as you would put it. Sure they eat meat but they kill for fun. 2 years ago a good friend of mine had a grizzly on his ranch that killed 9 yearlings and didn't eat a thin. Threw them around and jumped up and down on them just because it could. I'm sure there's many more stories like this. Iv been nose to nose with grizzlies before and had them charge. Not because they are scared because they know they can win. Fired a 12 Guage over ones head at 15 feet and it just starred and popped it's jaw before charging again. They are an apex predator. Give your head a shake if you think they are just another animal out there minding their own business. They have no morals or code of ethics. North America's wilderness gangsters. And this, this is what makes them so much fun to hunt.

[two-feet]

Actually your 100% wrong about grizzlies hunting for food. Grizzlies kill other animals because they know they can. Maybe they want to "dominate nature" as you would put it. Sure they eat meat but they kill for fun. 2 years ago a good friend of mine had a grizzly on his ranch that killed 9 yearlings and didn't eat a thin. Threw them around and jumped up and down on them just because it could. I'm sure there's many more stories like this. Iv been nose to nose with grizzlies before and had them charge. Not because they are scared because they know they can win. Fired a 12 Guage over ones head at 15 feet and it just starred and popped it's jaw before charging again. They are an apex predator. Give your head a shake if you think they are just another animal out there minding their own business. They have no morals or code of ethics. North America's wilderness gangsters. And this, this is what makes them so much fun to hunt.


Well done, and correct.

[gmachine19]

I haven't hunted one yet but its on my list. I do hunt blacks though. It satisfies a primal instinct I guess? It's a calling in my blood that I just can't ignore. See, thinking about a reply gets me all riled up right now. I just want to go out in the mountains, have a break from all the mundane stuff and claim that mountain my territory!

[Fella]

Reason #12: a pair of skivvies made out of grizzly fur are not only comfortable, they're damn sexy.

[Sharpish]

Because I want to bang a hot young blonde on a grizzly rug I risked my life to acquire.

[tuner]

Its good to know we have a resident psychiatrist we can consult when we need to be told the reasoning behind the reasons we have given. Thanks for free consult!
He's virtue signalling,lumping hunters into "virtuous" (meat hunters) and " immoral" (trophy hunters).
He applying Identity politics to hunters rationale, this is the world we live in. :mrgreen:

[horse280]

Thanks Sharpish finally someone with some sense! Captain Morgan or M.Dean couldn't have said it better Now back to my HighBrow reading Horsee:cool:

[scoutlt1]

Because I want to bang a hot young blonde on a grizzly rug I risked my life to acquire.


Ok.....this could be the winner!!! :)

[nature girl]

Because as you may be out hunting the grizz he may be hunting you.
The thrill the adrenaline rush as you are walking around not knowing if a grizz is going to be at the next corner or not.

[Trigger Happy]

6. The challenge

You got it man!

[Trigger Happy]

I hunt grizz firstly, to aid in the management of the species. I hunt grizz because I can hunt grizz. I hunt grizz because it's the ultimate prey animal where I reside, and if I kill one it is because I was the ultimate predator!! I hunt grizz because I enjoy recreating in the habitat the grizz lives in. Moosin

And you my friend nailed it on the head!

[HarryToolips]

I hunt grizz because I believe in conservation and taking advantage of hunting opportunities. If nobody did it the chance to hunt grizz and get out into the spring mountains would be lost. I like spring hunting and find it very refreshing after the winter.
These are my biggest reasons....

[Ohwildwon]

Wall to wall Grizz carpet...

A couple more pelts and we will have over 400 sq ft!

Had them all hand cut down to a random 5/8" to 7/8" pile...

Looks awesome with the different colour phases, feels great on the, "bear" feet...:mrgreen:

[604ksmith]

I hunt and eat black bears, enjoy their hunt, and wanted to try Grizzly.

[Xenomorph]

I could go on and on about the reasons why, but what stands to me is the self ...the importance of challenging yourself and finding limits, or surpassing them. It's been mentioned the Grizzlies are the only true "Dangerous Game". To me they're more than that as I am a firm believer in consuming what I hunt. I'm looking forward not just for the end result, I'm looking forward to learn, learn more about myself, the bear, the hunt. I respect nature and the bears and in turn I hope I'll find the opportunity to harvest one for the ages.

Summarizing: you're always searching for the pieces of self, each and every hunt, specie will add a different colourful piece into the wonderful mosaic we keep growing into ...because at the end, when the man comes to collect, you're left with the memories.

[ROY-alty33]

It always amazes me how as a group with a common bond we have this need to label and judge our peers, when others hunting practices or goals do not mesh with yours. The bow guys take issue the gun guys, the meat guys find the trophy guys off putting and immoral etc.... As long as everyone is playing within the rules who the F@&K am I to judge. All we do when we as a group open these can of worms to a public forum is give the anti-hunting establishment ammo basic divide and conquer.
Why do it it? Why not! Sheep and elk ain't my bag, but i don't begrudge them in fact I wish them well and hope they have all the success in the world.
Why do it? Love, passion, heritage, conservation, camaraderie, grooming the next generation, because I can.

[two-feet]

I dont think he is being divisive, or judgemental. Just asking a question and starting a conversation. Of course this is a brave thing to do on HBC as the flaming and roasting is legendary.

[Sportster]

Maybe it does bring out our most primal instincts. the same way the Masi hunt lions with spears. When I'm out in the bush hunting deer or moose I can feel, taste, and smell my environment. it's like dormant instincts resurface. Only other hunters have ever experience this.when I think of all the people in their offices sitting at there computer terminals, I feel sorry for them because that's not living it's just surviving. I wish everyone could experience it just once in there lives. I've never been bear hunting but it's definitely on my bucket list. Keep up these great discussions HBC I so enjoy them.

[AgSilver]

I think you are actually wrong to try and lump them all in your own self-made category when there are in fact several other opinions that don't agree with your "system" of deciding what "fits" where. Yes, they may fall under that for you, but I'd say there are several other reasons that people hunt ANY species so depending on whose list the definitions would all be different.

Just my thoughts on why there will be disagreement. I have a few reasons I hunt grizz, but they don't fall perfectly under your categories nor do I want them bunched how you see fit.

That's fair. Not trying to cause anyone to get upset...just using terminology that categorized things in my head. Everyone has their own words for the same thing (but the psych comment was a bit uncalled for).

I'd love to hear the reasons - I think the results of this thread are quite enlightening and I'm glad I asked a question that I've wondered about for awhile. Any earlier "categorizing" of the responses is just for my own sake...I won't do that anymore...just "thinking out loud" kind of a thing.

[AgSilver]

Why would someone want to fish? They could just buy that meat in a store for cheaper.

For me, fishing is #1 and #4 with a bunch of subsets off #4 (notably because it's a bit different than an apex predator thing...but it's basically "just cool"). In fishing, for me, it's the connection with nature and the calm, relaxing nature of it that suddenly can get very exciting very quickly...and then all goes back to being calm and relaxing.

Which, yeah, that could definitely fit into another category in the way that a lot of people here have commented...in terms of the connecting with nature part. That's fairly general to a lot of hunting and less about grizz specifically, though.


Mr silver: i also listened to that podcast and perhaps heard it differently, as in i thought the bio was saying that bears do account for quite a few dead elk calves.

Regardless, i feel yellowstone and other national parks should not be looked at as nature in its natural state, as humans do not hunt these animals. North america has been a hunting ground for humans for at least 15,000 years, this is the natural state.

Food for thought?

That's an interesting comment, too. I wonder if "we" (whatever that means) always hunted the big bears? I would think yes as, in more primitive times, there was definitely a need for the pelts but also it was a way of demonstrating dominance generally..."I killed this m-f'er...wanna mess with me?"

[guest]

For management purposes, for the challenge and memory of the hunts, a pelt or rug, and yes the meat ....... But ...... I will not hunt or shoot a fish bear. If I want something to taste like fish, it will dam well be a fish.

[AgSilver]

Actually your 100% wrong about grizzlies hunting for food. Grizzlies kill other animals because they know they can. Maybe they want to "dominate nature" as you would put it. Sure they eat meat but they kill for fun. 2 years ago a good friend of mine had a grizzly on his ranch that killed 9 yearlings and didn't eat a thin. Threw them around and jumped up and down on them just because it could. I'm sure there's many more stories like this. Iv been nose to nose with grizzlies before and had them charge. Not because they are scared because they know they can win. Fired a 12 Guage over ones head at 15 feet and it just starred and popped it's jaw before charging again. They are an apex predator. Give your head a shake if you think they are just another animal out there minding their own business. They have no morals or code of ethics. North America's wilderness gangsters. And this, this is what makes them so much fun to hunt.

Interesting. I didn't know that (hence the caveat of not knowing). When you reference yearlings, are you referring to young bears or ungulates? Or cattle? I've heard the term used about a few things before so just wanted to better understand. But that's definitely an interesting phenomenon. I've not heard of that happening among very many animals before.


Reason #12: a pair of skivvies made out of grizzly fur are not only comfortable, they're damn sexy.

Oh that'd make for a ripe crotch!


Because I want to bang a hot young blonde on a grizzly rug I risked my life to acquire.

When can we submit our next LEH entries???


He's virtue signalling,lumping hunters into "virtuous" (meat hunters) and " immoral" (trophy hunters).
He applying Identity politics to hunters rationale, this is the world we live in. :mrgreen:

Hey man, if that's how you interpret it, that's your decision. For me, I'm not associating any virtues to the labels. They're just identifying factors that are my own realistic interpretation of what's happening. If you have a problem with legal "trophy" hunting, I'll leave that with you. I just want to better understand grizzly hunting as I'm still pretty new to the game.

[AgSilver]

Wall to wall Grizz carpet...

A couple more pelts and we will have over 400 sq ft!

Had them all hand cut down to a random 5/8" to 7/8" pile...

Looks awesome with the different colour phases, feels great on the, "bear" feet...:mrgreen:

That sounds amazing...the first true "shag" carpet! You've gotta put wood paneled walls in that room!


I could go on and on about the reasons why, but what stands to me is the self ...the importance of challenging yourself and finding limits, or surpassing them. It's been mentioned the Grizzlies are the only true "Dangerous Game". To me they're more than that as I am a firm believer in consuming what I hunt. I'm looking forward not just for the end result, I'm looking forward to learn, learn more about myself, the bear, the hunt. I respect nature and the bears and in turn I hope I'll find the opportunity to harvest one for the ages.

Summarizing: you're always searching for the pieces of self, each and every hunt, specie will add a different colourful piece into the wonderful mosaic we keep growing into ...because at the end, when the man comes to collect, you're left with the memories.

As always, a great response. Thanks Xeno.


It always amazes me how as a group with a common bond we have this need to label and judge our peers, when others hunting practices or goals do not mesh with yours. The bow guys take issue the gun guys, the meat guys find the trophy guys off putting and immoral etc.... As long as everyone is playing within the rules who the F@&K am I to judge. All we do when we as a group open these can of worms to a public forum is give the anti-hunting establishment ammo basic divide and conquer.
Why do it it? Why not! Sheep and elk ain't my bag, but i don't begrudge them in fact I wish them well and hope they have all the success in the world.
Why do it? Love, passion, heritage, conservation, camaraderie, grooming the next generation, because I can.

I'm not judging or begrudging. Just discussing.

Can you expand on "grooming the next generation"? Do you mean you take your kids out grizz hunting so it's part of their learning process?

[AgSilver]

I dont think he is being divisive, or judgemental. Just asking a question and starting a conversation. Of course this is a brave thing to do on HBC as the flaming and roasting is legendary.

Well, I'm not trying to be, but as you noted, it happens regardless. I like talking about hunting...it's an interesting topic that I don't know a lot about. That's all.

[ROY-alty33]

Yes that is what I mean.

[adriaticum]

What happens when grizzlies get a wiff of humans in the jungle?

[AgSilver]

Yes that is what I mean.

Cool adventure for a kid to talk about at school on Monday.

[sfp]

Saw 17 Grizzly in a very small area while hunting last fall (4-29). Had a moose draw in the same zone . Never saw one moose!
Lots of Wolf, Lots of Bears . Only saw One deer. Hunted hard for months. Granted this massive, steep and deep country,but
there is an imbalance in this zone for sure.
Here's to next year.
Happy to have spring bear in the freezer.
3 of us put in for LEH Grizz and did not get one.

Good luck all.

[bacon_overlord]

I'd have to say for the challenge... I hunt black bears for meat, and will take grizz meat home for sure. But grizz are rarer, tougher, more aggressive and will take ore and better hunting to connect with. The payoff from achieving the challenge is meat, memories, and a souvenir rug...

[Cali]

Why hunt grizzly bears? I can't think of much better way to spend a sunny day in May laying in the snow glassing an avalanche slide waiting for a bear to walk out in freshly green slide. Watching sow and cubs slide down in the snow or stalking a big boar, life doesn't get any better.

[Fisher-Dude]

I've always believed that to be a bogus argument. If we are all as good as we claim to be on these pages then a hunted animal is a dead animal. That's pretty educational I guess. Do the live ones in the next valley over get an email or what?

Take it up with Dr Valerius Geist.

He always emphasizes that we must hunt grizzly bears to keep grizzly bears wary and wild.

I was at one of his presentations when he described how wary a hunted grizzly bear is - a truly wild grizzly is suspicious and "afraid" of any sound he hears on his backtrail.

[wideopenthrottle]

Maybe it does bring out our most primal instincts. the same way the Masi hunt lions with spears. When I'm out in the bush hunting deer or moose I can feel, taste, and smell my environment. it's like dormant instincts resurface. Only other hunters have ever experience this.when I think of all the people in their offices sitting at there computer terminals, I feel sorry for them because that's not living it's just surviving. I wish everyone could experience it just once in there lives. I've never been bear hunting but it's definitely on my bucket list. Keep up these great discussions HBC I so enjoy them.

sitting here "surviving" at the moment...at my computer thinking...well....you just ruined my day..heheheheh

[steel_ram]

Take it up with Dr Valerius Geist.

He always emphasizes that we must hunt grizzly bears to keep grizzly bears wary and wild.

I was at one of his presentations when he described how wary a hunted grizzly bear is - a truly wild grizzly is suspicious and "afraid" of any sound he hears on his backtrail.

How does a Grizzly know he's being hunted? Only way he knows soft little human animals are threat that needs to be avoided is if he's hurt by them. If he's shot (presumably killed) then the lesson doesn't matter.

[wideopenthrottle]

it's not about a griz feeling "hunted" it's about it being wary of humans...ie: we scare it away so it gets a fear of people..if it doesn't have fear of people , it gets shot therefore fear of humans is a trait that helps them live and that is what mom will teach the cubs

[dellis]

How does a Grizzly know he's being hunted? Only way he knows soft little human animals are threat that needs to be avoided is if he's hurt by them. If he's shot (presumably killed) then the lesson doesn't matter.

There is a different "vibe" in the air when you are stalking an animal with intent to kill. They seem to be able to sense that there is danger. Ever notice in the offseason, game animals often pay very little attention to you.....season opens and that all changes.

Lions will be seen sleeping in close proximity to herds of peacefully feeding ungulates. The zebra(or whatever) know the difference between a lion on the prowl and one that is no threat.

What I am saying, is you don't have to kill a grizzly for it to know it is being hunted.

Also, anyone who runs 100% kills on every stalk opportunity is a heluvalot more skilled than I am!;)

Good thread, I hope it stays civil.

Darcy

[Bonz]

why hunt them? if i did id say for the carrying capacity science that says its the right thing to do for healthy populations vs over crowded and week/sick animal if that isnt carried out.

[Rupert Retired]

Babes love to take their clothes off while lying on a bear-skin rug in front of an open fire! But that is a side benefit, not the real reason to hunt them. For society, I think the hunt is absolutely essential, as mentioned in numerous posts above, a hunted population is a wary population. When a grizz runs away from humans, that means they are being managed properly. There are many examples of non-hunted predators becoming dangerous (eg California cougars), and then (if this doesn't end in tragedy) the predator needs to be taken out by the authorities anyway, so not hunting them is self-defeating and dangerous. But that is still not why I hunt them. I would say, it is all of the categories you mentioned (except the eating part!). They are exciting, it gives you a great excuse to get out in nature and enjoy things (after all, it costs $, so you do sort of need an excuse to justify that). It is a challenge, it is exciting chasing a big bear that can turn the tables on you if you aren't careful, it allows you to pursue your hobby regarding rifles, bullets, shot placement, and endless arguments on that front, a bear-skin rug is an awesome trophy that will bring back memories for the rest of your life, it bolsters your ego and is great bragging material. And, don't forget the babes thing.

[Fisher-Dude]

How does a Grizzly know he's being hunted? Only way he knows soft little human animals are threat that needs to be avoided is if he's hurt by them. If he's shot (presumably killed) then the lesson doesn't matter.

If you're trailing a grizzly, and you happen to break a branch, best be looking at your backtrail, because he will circle around to see what you are and what threat you pose.

Geist was emphatic that in the absence of fear of being hunted (be it by man or by other grizzlies), the bears tend to become problem bears.

Kill or be killed is what their natural instinct is. It's not a case of having being shot at, it's a case of being hunted. They are way smarter than you're giving them credit to be.

[300rum700]

How does a Grizzly know he's being hunted? Only way he knows soft little human animals are threat that needs to be avoided is if he's hurt by them. If he's shot (presumably killed) then the lesson doesn't matter.

It's lessons passed from mother to cub that will change the behavior of bears and if mom sees dad get dusted as he climbs off her in the spring then she's going to know those soft little humans aren't to be ****ed with.

[sawmill]

I have taken 2 and helped friends get 4 more over the years. The meat was horrible stinky(Hazelton bears) but the thrill of getting killed was huge. I got them both mounted and they were majestic, a half mount 9 foot boar and a 6.5 silvertip female. Then my house burned down and I realized I had killed them for no other reason than to show them off. I don`t hunt bears at all anymore. Still feel like shit for wasting those two.

[AgSilver]

I don`t hunt bears at all anymore. Still feel like shit for wasting those two.

Not even black bears now?

[RiverOtter]

I try not to assemble animals themselves into a hierarchy of "worth". In that regard, a grizzly is no more "valuable" to me than a coyote mousing in the field or a cougar perched in a fir tree. What sets one animal apart from another for me, is the unique challenges each presents me as a hunter. That is where grizzlies come into their own, at least for me. They inhabit the wildest of places, which in itself presents risks. Add to that, the fact that if you flub your shot, they're not out of character to try and "end" you, instead of fleeing from you. Heck, sometimes they even choose confrontation without being wounded, simply because the urge to fight outweighed the flight at that particular moment. Fact is they're very unpredictable and capable of causing serious injury or death; hunting a grizzly successfully is a huge accomplishment.

Aside from the above, I agree with a hunted population being a safer population, as the bold daytime bears take the brunt of the harvest.

[Useyourfeet]

I hunt them to be a part of scientifically backed wildlife management and to make sure they fear man. Perhaps most of all because you never feel quite as alive as when you're stalking a grizz.

[kgs]

Totally agree with this comment...


I hunt grizz firstly, to aid in the management of the species. I hunt grizz because I can hunt grizz. I hunt grizz because it's the ultimate prey animal where I reside, and if I kill one it is because I was the ultimate predator!! I hunt grizz because I enjoy recreating in the habitat the grizz lives in. Moosin

[adriaticum]

Hunt grizzly because it you don't hunt them, they will hunt you.

[steel_ram]

Shooting them for the thrill, because it makes you, "the master predator", seems to me to be kind of a waste. Pretty expensive thrill in many ways. My opinion anyways. I enjoy reading old stories of pioneers tracking a bear for days in the pristine high country before making a close, one shot kill. Shooting bears along salmon streams and on the beaches not so much.

[Xenomorph]

Shooting them for the thrill, because it makes you, "the master predator", seems to me to be kind of a waste. Pretty expensive thrill in many ways. My opinion anyways. I enjoy reading old stories of pioneers tracking a bear for days in the pristine high country before making a close, one shot kill. Shooting bears along salmon streams and on the beaches not so much.


So as long I'm not on a salmon stream or the beach I'm golden?!? Phew! I'm going for a mountain one and I hope he'll taste as good or better than a blackie.

[adriaticum]

Shooting them for the thrill, because it makes you, "the master predator", seems to me to be kind of a waste. Pretty expensive thrill in many ways. My opinion anyways. I enjoy reading old stories of pioneers tracking a bear for days in the pristine high country before making a close, one shot kill. Shooting bears along salmon streams and on the beaches not so much.

It's not for the thrill, or to be the master predator, it's for survival.
When humans met bears first, bears were eating them.
Then humans figured out how to kill them and hunt them and instilled fear of humans into them.
Bears don't have instinctive fear of humans, it's a learned behaviour.
Bears have the capacity to learn and have culture.
So they learned over millennia to steer clear of humans.
If we don't hunt them, they will start hunting humans.
Or we could just stay out of "their territory"

[.264winmag]

If you've ever been into good interior grizz country and are a hunter and still don't get the allure, you're not truly a hunter imo. That's not to say I don't understand ones reasoning not to harvest said animal, as they are the most magnificent creatures in our country to watch. Been on trips where there were more grizz than most other critters, nothing to see a dozen on a week trip in northern bc, just as many grizz as Rams, goats and mulies IME. The coyote of the mountains one could say HA. I have had a couple grizz tags I've not punched, but mainly because I'd rather pack sheep meat out over hide. The harvest of any game in such country is equally enjoyable, personally...

[Wagonmaster]

Valerius Geist is a respected bear researcher and apparently thinks that simply hunting bears makes them wary and/or fearful. Maybe he is right, but it is likely bears don't have an instinctive fear of humans and that fear is a learned behavior. If you shoot and kill a grizzly bear, it isn't going to pass on a fear of humans to other bears. If you wound it, and it survives, but didn't see where the bullet came from, it still isn't going to pass on fear. Perhaps if it was looking at the hunter, got shot, wounded and survived, then it might associate a two legged being with the pain inflicted. Maybe it would pass that on to another bear, maybe not. I don't think many grizzlies wander around in constant fear of a two legged threat in the neighborhood. Could be wrong, but seems logical to me. On the other hand, 90% of the time I run into a black bear, it turns and runs away. Maybe blacks don't have that ultimate predator mindset? Who knows??

[Fisher-Dude]

Valerius Geist is a respected bear researcher and apparently thinks that simply hunting bears makes them wary and/or fearful. Maybe he is right, but it is likely bears don't have an instinctive fear of humans and that fear is a learned behavior. If you shoot and kill a grizzly bear, it isn't going to pass on a fear of humans to other bears. If you wound it, and it survives, but didn't see where the bullet came from, it still isn't going to pass on fear. Perhaps if it was looking at the hunter, got shot, wounded and survived, then it might associate a two legged being with the pain inflicted. Maybe it would pass that on to another bear, maybe not. I don't think many grizzlies wander around in constant fear of a two legged threat in the neighborhood. Could be wrong, but seems logical to me. On the other hand, 90% of the time I run into a black bear, it turns and runs away. Maybe blacks don't have that ultimate predator mindset? Who knows??

You should refer back to my posts.

Big difference between shooting and hunting a bear. I don't think you've separated the two.

If a bear is pursued, his instinct to avoid his pursuer is kept intact. Pursuit does not equal getting shot at.

There's a very, very low percentage of shots versus hunts. BC has some thousands of grizzly draws, and only 250 get shot. Many of the huge unshot number get educated.

[MichelD]

I have to agree with this:

If you shoot and kill a grizzly bear, it isn't going to pass on a fear of humans to other bears.




Valerius Geist is a respected bear researcher and apparently thinks that simply hunting bears makes them wary and/or fearful. Maybe he is right, but it is likely bears don't have an instinctive fear of humans and that fear is a learned behavior. If you shoot and kill a grizzly bear, it isn't going to pass on a fear of humans to other bears. If you wound it, and it survives, but didn't see where the bullet came from, it still isn't going to pass on fear. Perhaps if it was looking at the hunter, got shot, wounded and survived, then it might associate a two legged being with the pain inflicted. Maybe it would pass that on to another bear, maybe not. I don't think many grizzlies wander around in constant fear of a two legged threat in the neighborhood. Could be wrong, but seems logical to me. On the other hand, 90% of the time I run into a black bear, it turns and runs away. Maybe blacks don't have that ultimate predator mindset? Who knows??

[Wagonmaster]

But Fisher-Dude, how does a bear know it's being "hunted" just because there is a two legged creature milling about in it's environment? And why should a bear be afraid of said creature when it is four times the size and weight of said creature?

[Fisher-Dude]

But Fisher-Dude, how does a bear know it's being "hunted" just because there is a two legged creature milling about in it's environment? And why should a bear be afraid of said creature when it is four times the size and weight of said creature?

I think you've been watching too much Disney.

A deer would kill you or seriously injure you very quickly if you had hand-to-hoof combat. So, why does a deer instinctively run away from you? Deer don't know what a 30/06 is.

[Salty]

But Fisher-Dude, how does a bear know it's being "hunted" just because there is a two legged creature milling about in it's environment? And why should a bear be afraid of said creature when it is four times the size and weight of said creature?

How does a wild buck know to run from humans in the wild and a town buck keeps browsing? How does a dog know your moods? Animals perceive things that we don't and visa versa. If a grizzly's life experience involves a few two legged creatures showing no fear of it and approaching it unless it has food or young to protect it will get out of Dodge. It doesn't know you have a rifle but it knows you are confident and approaching. If that same bear's experience is two legged creatures always retreating when he sees them said two legged creatures are now on the short list for potential prey. Geist is worthy of some detailed reading.

[SPEYMAN]

You either do or you don't, why, because it is an enjoyable experience.

[Salty]

I don't hunt bears myself, my wife has no interest in eating bear, I'm not going to eat one myself so I don't bother. I have though taken 3 different groups of folks out black bear hunting successfully when I lived on the north island. I enjoyed those trips a lot we got some nice b bears. I've never hunted grizzly but am a strong proponent of a limited grizzly bear hunt as we have where numbers allow it.

Hey.. we've been screwing with nature as the mastermind for a long time now with that comes responsibility. And not hunting them and letting grizzly bears become overpopulated and without fear of humans would be irresponsible and lead to a shit ton of grizzly bears needing to be killed by COs. Ask the folks at Rivers Inlet about this scenario they've BTDT.

[sawmill]

Not even black bears now?

Nope, I only shoot what I`m gonna eat and I don`t eat bears. I don`t shoot gophers or coyotes either.

[RiverOtter]

Nope, I only shoot what I`m gonna eat and I don`t eat bears. I don`t shoot gophers or coyotes either.

Interesting concept. Curious, where is your cutoff point, where it becomes "okay" to kill something you don't intend to eat? Pack rat? House mouse? Wasp? House fly? Or does your logic only extend to animals you kill with your rifle?

[RiverOtter]

Hey.. we've been screwing with nature as the mastermind for a long time now with that comes responsibility. And not hunting them and letting grizzly bears become overpopulated and without fear of humans would be irresponsible and lead to a shit ton of grizzly bears needing to be killed by COs. Ask the folks at Rivers Inlet about this scenario they've BTDT.
Had a prime example of that right near my house last fall. A sow with 2 yearling cubs and a lone adolescent boar, all hanging around residences in Cherryville, to the point of sleeping on porches. CO's finally got around to setting a trap and "relocated" thr sow and cubs to the far end of the Monashee, then claimed a job well done in the local paper, like the bears somehow "accidentally" ended up here in the first place. Less than 2 weeks later, I get a pick up roar up my lane and inform me that the same sow(now with a single cub) just ran into the trees that border my house. What a joke. The only reason those bears were here in the first place is because bigger dominant bears had the wild food places claimed. The CO'S might as well have just dispatched them right out of the gate, as a dominant bear obviously killed one before mama could make it back to the safety of the houses. Not sure what happened to the rest, but never seen them again on my trail cams and there was still plenty of fall left before den up. A likely scenario in these parts is someone finally did the right thing before someone got mauled or killed.

So there's another reason to hunt grizzlies, SAFETY, to make sure there is enough room in wild places, so grizzlies aren't forced down into residential areas.

[AgSilver]

Nope, I only shoot what I`m gonna eat and I don`t eat bears. I don`t shoot gophers or coyotes either.

Fair choice. Seems to be a common one among many hunters


Interesting concept. Curious, where is your cutoff point, where it becomes "okay" to kill something you don't intend to eat? Pack rat? House mouse? Wasp? House fly? Or does your logic only extend to animals you kill with your rifle?

I don't think he was saying whether or not it's "okay" as much as that's just how he personally draws a line for what he's willing to hunt.

[RiverOtter]

Ya I know. Just baffles me how guys think nothing of shooting their deer/elk/moose every year, but refuse to manage predator populations because they don't eat predators.

[elch jager]

Ignorance

It was only through this forum and discussion like this that I figured it out. Will kill at least one blackie this year and will try for a grizzly. Any Wolf I see will be shot. Kicking myself for missing a shot at a coyote last fall...

[bearvalley]

Ya I know. Just baffles me how guys think nothing of shooting their deer/elk/moose every year, but refuse to manage predator populations because they don't eat predators.
But they sure can bitch if they don't find something to shoot for the freezer.

[HarryToolips]

Nope, I only shoot what I`m gonna eat and I don`t eat bears. I don`t shoot gophers or coyotes either.
Next time your swinging through reg 8 let me know, I have a black bear smokie I'd like you to try, then you'll change your tune..

[BCLongshot]

Because I might die and it's all about extreme for me...

That's why deer hunting etc. makes me sleepy

[HarryToolips]

Shooting them for the thrill, because it makes you, "the master predator", seems to me to be kind of a waste. Pretty expensive thrill in many ways. My opinion anyways. I enjoy reading old stories of pioneers tracking a bear for days in the pristine high country before making a close, one shot kill. Shooting bears along salmon streams and on the beaches not so much.
Most people hunt griz on slides, clear cuts, and the mountains...

[steel_ram]

Ya I know. Just baffles me how guys think nothing of shooting their deer/elk/moose every year, but refuse to manage predator populations because they don't eat predators.

How much of an effect do you think the small number of grizzlies killed by hunters has on deer and moose? Little if any I'd guess. Is it not true that the big male bears actually prey on the smaller ones, therefore actually reducing overall bear predation on deer etc.? Seems to me that grizzlies manage themselves. Apparently the current bear harvest is sustainable (fine), but with few exceptions, not really a tool for managing ungulate populations.

I know a few and am acquainted to several hunters that have taken grizzlies. None of them had any intention of taking the meat. A few of them had regrets and said they'd never shoot another.

I think it's a fair question to ask, "why pull the trigger ?"

[srupp]

It differs in different locations..however the lower Bella Coola valley..from McCall flats to the ocean has in excess of 150 extra bears..above the optimum carrying capacity..eventually a human death..then 150 grizzlies will be shot and taken to the dump.
Other areas ie 6..29....6..28 also exceeded the ideal population density..the Cariboo has as many grizzlies now as it did 35 years ago..some areas like Chilco lake has stupid crazy density..and no tags? Seriously?
We are seeing bears..26...27..28..29...30 years old being harvested..routinely..like every year for the past 4..5 years..in the Cariboo mts"
Along the central coast the harvesting has been dropping with the confrontations...the numbers were always high..and d with loss of respect has come some cranky boars.hopefully a couple of hunters will post their confrontations..
Srupp

[Hublocker]

I'd agree. I'll bet if you look at the number there are far more moose killed by trains and deer killed by cars than by grizzly bears, but I don't see anyone here volunteering to go "control" any train engines.

The whole notion that we are some kind of self appointed "White Knights" with a God-given right to save ungulates from predators seems a little overblown and obviously self serving. After all, they are our deer and moose aren't they? They don't belong to the damn bears and wolves.




How much of an effect do you think the small number of grizzlies killed by hunters has on deer and moose? Little if any I'd guess. Is it not true that the big male bears actually prey on the smaller ones, therefore actually reducing overall bear predation on deer etc.? Seems to me that grizzlies manage themselves. Apparently the current bear harvest is sustainable (fine), but with few exceptions, not really a tool for managing ungulate populations.

I know a few and am acquainted to several hunters that have taken grizzlies. None of them had any intention of taking the meat. A few of them had regrets and said they'd never shoot another.

I think it's a fair question to ask, "why pull the trigger ?"

[Barracuda]

Fear is a normal survival requirement of every creature and almost any animal pursued will be fear full of the unknown . Some animals once maturity has been reached show what we perceive as little fear but you can bet your bottom dollar that they have fear hardwired into them and have used that hardwired fear to survive.

If it was as simplistic as only survivors of attacks have fear then deer bunnies blackbears , grizzly,jackalopes etc would not show fear to something that hasn't tried to harm them.

[Linksman313]

Why do it? Love, passion, heritage, conservation, camaraderie, grooming the next generation, because I can.

Agreed, if I ever am lucky enough to draw one, these would be my motivating factors, as well as #6 - the challenge

[AgSilver]

I'd agree. I'll bet if you look at the number there are far more moose killed by trains and deer killed by cars than by grizzly bears, but I don't see anyone here volunteering to go "control" any train engines.

The whole notion that we are some kind of self appointed "White Knights" with a God-given right to save ungulates from predators seems a little overblown and obviously self serving. After all, they are our deer and moose aren't they? They don't belong to the damn bears and wolves.

I'm trying to leave my own views out of the discussion (partially because they aren't either fully crystallized or based on realistic or fully informed notions)...but I think that there is a philosophical argument in support of predator control in that we have such a tremendous impact on the ecosystem and the ungulate population and, in some way then, it's our obligation to bring a bit of balance back to the ecosystem by (similarly?) decimating (or "impacting" if we want to use a nicer word) the predator population.

Mind you, I also believe the ecosystem is more complex that we can truly account for or control, but I can see the point of that argument. Buuuuuut, I fully understand people saying "yeah, I don't want to shoot it because I'm not going to eat it." It may be considered self-serving if the aforementioned philosophical argument is fully grounded in sound biology, though. What I mean by that is that the view may be valid that one should not be shooting ungulates if not also contributing to predator control, to some extent.

[wideopenthrottle]

when it comes to that philosophy, I used to think I would only kill what I eat IF IT ISNT THREATENING ME ME ME....when predators numbers get too high in areas they shouldn't be we need to step in (kill some bad actors) or let nature take its course (the weak ones will be chased away to ???? starve or be killed by others of their kind)..... you can sort of think of it like killing off invasive species like zebra mussels or gold fish....If man has caused an imbalance by facilitating animals/plants/disease to get to areas they wouldn't naturally get to, we need to mitigate that impact.....for wolves, pushing roads in everywhere has allowed them to penetrate into areas where they should not be....grizz/cougars etc were SSS by anyone on the fringe and over time it went too far so we changed how we think about grizz and started to let them live/reproduce to the point where there are problem bears that are not being dealt with

[Xenomorph]

The whole notion that we are some kind of self appointed "White Knights" with a God-given right to save ungulates from predators seems a little overblown and obviously self serving. After all, they are our deer and moose aren't they? They don't belong to the damn bears and wolves.


Uhm, I'm hunting because it's part of the management, because I want to eat them ...none of the knight BS you're going on.

Satisfied?!?

[BCbuckhunter]

Hunting is far more than just one adjective listed earlier. I think trying to put a single label on our pursuit of wild animals does a disservice to the act of hunting as a whole. Hunting for me is not categorized by one term, but many. Food, adventure, exploring the unknown, the challenge physically and mentally, learning wild animals in their natural state. I don't know how many times i have experienced something out hunting than I would not have experienced.

The term "Trophy Hunting" is a wrongly placed label used by those who don't understand hunting. Is the meat no less a trophy? Or does the act of simply taking the antler, horn or fur make along with all the useable parts make it Trophy Hunting"? If one was to leave the parts that make it a "Trophy", is that not as wasteful as leaving edible parts of an animal thats life was just taken?

Hunting as conservation is another disputed topic. For the act of hunting is not really conservation, but the management and oversight of hunting is. 120 years ago a group of hunters got together said that if our wild places and wild animals are not managed and conserved than there will be no wild places and wild animals. If the endangered Species act was around in 1910 all big game in North America would be on it. Bison, Elk, Moose, Pronghorn, Whitetail deer, Mule deer, Sheep, Black Bear, Grizzly Bear, Wolf and Turkey. All those animals would not be here if not for hunters.

[sawmill]

Interesting concept. Curious, where is your cutoff point, where it becomes "okay" to kill something you don't intend to eat? Pack rat? House mouse? Wasp? House fly? Or does your logic only extend to animals you kill with your rifle?

For chrisake, smarten up. That`s all I got for you.

[sawmill]

Fair choice. Seems to be a common one among many hunters



I don't think he was saying whether or not it's "okay" as much as that's just how he personally draws a line for what he's willing to hunt.

Thanks, yes I do.

[sawmill]

But they sure can bitch if they don't find something to shoot for the freezer.
Never had that problem in 43 years.

[wideopenthrottle]

when I was about 13 or 14, I watched my brother shot 3 whiskey jacks in quick succession with a 12 gauge before I flipped out on him...it is funny what we will consider "fair game" to kill without eating and what we wont...had they been crows, I doubt I would have cared....I still remember coming to blows with my best friend at around 9 or 10 when he switched from playing badminton to swatting dragonflies, tearfully yelling "THEY EAT MOSQUITOS...STOP IT" as my mom broke up our brawl...

[sawmill]

Since we are on this, the reason I don`t eat bears anymore is because I shot a nice young blackie boar for meat and was cutting steaks off a nice loin when the phone rang. 10 minits later I got back to work and all these thin hair-like worms were crawling out of the cut end of the loin.A fall berry fed bear too. Yeah, tell me about all the deer and elk you have seen with parasites.

[kevan]

I like and enjoy hunting as much as anyone else but for me hunting Grizzly was about as much fun as shooting a leashed St. Bernard.
I'll take hunting Moose or Elk anytime over Bear hunting..

[Darksith]

For the longest time I wasn't ever going to go on a Gbear hunt...my dad never had an interest in it and he kind of passed that on to me. But as I get more involved in hunting I started to ask myself why not? I now am actively looking to bag a Gbear. Its not for the meat, its not for the trophy, but I plan on utilizing both the hide and the meat...its simply because why not? Why is a grizzly bear any different than a black bear, a deer, a moose or elk? Why not is the question rather than why...if its sustainable, done ethically and everything is utilized then the question is not why, but why not. Its not a magical creature, its not special, its just another animal in our environment. If you say no way to a gbear hunt, you might as well hang up the guns or bows, stop buying licenses and simply let others tell you what you should or shouldn't do. If we let them shut down the gbear hunt, the next will be black bear (already happened on QCI), and then it will be big bucks because they are magestic and beautiful...

So I am choosing to excercise my right as a hunter to hunt any creature as long as we do it ethically, and by doing this I am supporting those that really are into it, the guys that dream of that hunt. We should not choose what we find acceptable and pass judgement on others in our community, but rather support each other as long as it meets 2 criteria...ethical and sustainable.

Don't ask why, but ask why not. As soon as you ask why, you are siding with the anti hunters who have choosen this angle to attack us on, and when they achieve the outcome there, they will pick another angle to attack us on.

[AgSilver]

Since we are on this, the reason I don`t eat bears anymore is because I shot a nice young blackie boar for meat and was cutting steaks off a nice loin when the phone rang. 10 minits later I got back to work and all these thin hair-like worms were crawling out of the cut end of the loin.A fall berry fed bear too. Yeah, tell me about all the deer and elk you have seen with parasites.

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

[Fisher-Dude]

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

Hate to see you if you were in the kitchen where your cod for fish'n'chips is being cut up.

[kevan]

Since we are on this, the reason I don`t eat bears anymore is because I shot a nice young blackie boar for meat and was cutting steaks off a nice loin when the phone rang. 10 minits later I got back to work and all these thin hair-like worms were crawling out of the cut end of the loin.A fall berry fed bear too. Yeah, tell me about all the deer and elk you have seen with parasites.


I posted regarding two Blackies I butchered that were totally crawling with red pinworms a few years ago.
That did it for me and bear hunting..

[wideopenthrottle]

i remember someone else mentioning the worms (filarial worms) and ow they quit eating bear out of respect for the "white spirit worms" heheheheh

[RiverOtter]

Too funny, guys get all grossed out over a few tiny worms in their bear meat, but think nothing of chowing down on hormone ridden, chemically processed meat from the grocery store.

If you're too scared to hunt down a grizzly, that's perfectly okay, but please cut the garbage excuses that wreak of "anti" and just own it.

[AgSilver]

For the longest time I wasn't ever going to go on a Gbear hunt...my dad never had an interest in it and he kind of passed that on to me. But as I get more involved in hunting I started to ask myself why not? I now am actively looking to bag a Gbear. Its not for the meat, its not for the trophy, but I plan on utilizing both the hide and the meat...its simply because why not? Why is a grizzly bear any different than a black bear, a deer, a moose or elk? Why not is the question rather than why...if its sustainable, done ethically and everything is utilized then the question is not why, but why not. Its not a magical creature, its not special, its just another animal in our environment. If you say no way to a gbear hunt, you might as well hang up the guns or bows, stop buying licenses and simply let others tell you what you should or shouldn't do. If we let them shut down the gbear hunt, the next will be black bear (already happened on QCI), and then it will be big bucks because they are magestic and beautiful...

So I am choosing to excercise my right as a hunter to hunt any creature as long as we do it ethically, and by doing this I am supporting those that really are into it, the guys that dream of that hunt. We should not choose what we find acceptable and pass judgement on others in our community, but rather support each other as long as it meets 2 criteria...ethical and sustainable.

Don't ask why, but ask why not. As soon as you ask why, you are siding with the anti hunters who have choosen this angle to attack us on, and when they achieve the outcome there, they will pick another angle to attack us on.

I believe that we can ask "why" of almost anything. Without reason, there is little to support our own positions. I've personally been careful to try not to impart any particular values on the grizz hunt in this thread (particularly because I don't have strong feelings about it...but also because it's not my place - it's legal and sustainable - which makes it ethical...at least in some regards). No judgment - just discussion. I've learned a lot in reading this thread and find the responses intriguing. I can understand better now why people are interested in it. I'm personally not that interested in actually doing it myself, but I wouldn't object to anyone else doing it.


Hate to see you if you were in the kitchen where your cod for fish'n'chips is being cut up.

Cod's one of the worst...but I was joking anyhow. There's a lot of shit (literally and figuratively) that we eat that we don't see.


Too funny, guys get all grossed out over a few tiny worms in their bear meat, but think nothing of chowing down on hormone ridden, chemically processed meat from the grocery store.

If you're too scared to hunt down a grizzly, that's perfectly okay, but please cut the garbage excuses that wreak of "anti" and just own it.

I don't plan on taking taking up grizz hunting, despite excellent arguments in favour of it found here...but my reasons are personal and ones that I would NEVER impose on others. My reasons don't even make sense, and I know it - but that doesn't matter - I just don't want to do it. But, to me, bears are essentially too dog/human-like for me to want to pull the trigger. Sure, it's a silly and arbitrary reason and I'm sure others will feel compelled to skewer me for it, but, hey, we're all entitled to our own reasons for doing things.

I remember speaking to a guy (a member here, actually) who was hunting and had a black bear tag...had a bear in his sights but then the bear did something that simply made him say "nope, not shooting today." And that's fair, too.

I have a much better understanding of the grizz hunt now, even if I'm not dying to do it (not scare of it...although probably should be!).

[todbartell]

..had a bear in his sights but then the bear did something that simply made him say "nope, not shooting today."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL-Dj-rk-v4

[RiverOtter]

My post wasn't directed at you AG, even if you are scared of worms. Haha.

Bear hunting isn't for everyone and that's fine. What concerns me is some of the reasoning used to defend that stance. When hunters start using the same angles as antis, it is very concerning to me as a hunter. If grizzly hunting is eventually shut down, despite thriving populations, rest assured another "majestic" animal will take its place on the chopping block.

[Downtown]

This question is NOT even remotely a critical one - just want to learn more.

I was listening to the most recent Meat Eater podcast last night and something that I took away from it (if I understood it properly) is that predators (grizz, in particular, as the focus of the cast) don't have a seriously detrimental impact on ungulate population, generally (although, it appears wolves may be the exception, here). I'm paraphrasing and maybe misunderstood...was walking the dog and carrying a heavy pack at the time, so forgive me if I'm wrong.

So my question is essentially "what's the draw to grizzly hunting?" (I've seen a lot of threads lately with people very excited about it)

1. Meat - some people say it's gross. Others say it's taste as good or better than black bear. So if it's not meat, then...?

2. Predator control in an effort to assist ungulate populations - see above. If not that, then...?

3. Pelts - most of us don't wear grizzly skins but I guess several people have rugs. Or have them hung, in some instances. This is something that I would refer to as a "trophy" reason for hunting.

4. It's just cool - shooting a big bear is basically an assertion of dominance over nature. This would also be "trophy" reasoning, to my mind.

5. Revenge - see "The Revenant".


For the people that don't eat the meat, I'm guessing it's mostly #2 with side benefits of 3 & 4, is that right? And then I'm guessing there are several people whose main reasons are either 3 or 4, but figure that #2 justifies that. Is that fair?

I'm also guessing that #5 doesn't apply to many of us.

I'm seriously not judging any of those reasons - It's legal and that's all there is to it. I'm trying to decide if I might hunt black bear this spring, myself. I just want to better understand reasoning for the grizz hunt.


Hunting big old Grizzly Boars the kind which can outsmart the most experienced Hunter is an old thing, it goes way back like 1000s of years. If it,s not in you, then you probably never understand.

And for that poorly done Movie "the Revenant" gee I bought a Ticket because of DeCaprio. Big mistake, animatet Bears, Wolves and Bisons for plenty of hype.

Cheers

[HarryToolips]

I'd agree. I'll bet if you look at the number there are far more moose killed by trains and deer killed by cars than by grizzly bears, but I don't see anyone here volunteering to go "control" any train engines.

The whole notion that we are some kind of self appointed "White Knights" with a God-given right to save ungulates from predators seems a little overblown and obviously self serving. After all, they are our deer and moose aren't they? They don't belong to the damn bears and wolves.
Hunters have funded lots of wildlife fencing along highways etc, not so easy around train tracks, but at least we have done something in that respect toward helping ungulates....and we're not saying that bears and wolves don't deserve to be there, but we have to manage their numbers as well, there's too many in many parts of the province.. managing predator numbers will help the ungulates rebound quicker..

[j270wsm]

If man has caused an imbalance by facilitating animals/plants/disease to get to areas they wouldn't naturally get to, we need to mitigate that impact.....for wolves, pushing roads in everywhere has allowed them to penetrate into areas where they should not be....grizz/cougars etc were SSS by anyone on the fringe and over time it went too far so we changed how we think about grizz and started to let them live/reproduce to the point where there are problem bears that are not being dealt with


do people honestly think roads are the reason wolves are being seen in new areas???? Let's be honest.....there are huge areas of Canada that do not have roads but guess what....wolves live there or travel through. Due to high ungulate populations the wolf population has exploded. Packs will split and create new packs and find new territory but it doesn't have anything to do with roads.

[HarryToolips]

For the longest time I wasn't ever going to go on a Gbear hunt...my dad never had an interest in it and he kind of passed that on to me. But as I get more involved in hunting I started to ask myself why not? I now am actively looking to bag a Gbear. Its not for the meat, its not for the trophy, but I plan on utilizing both the hide and the meat...its simply because why not? Why is a grizzly bear any different than a black bear, a deer, a moose or elk? Why not is the question rather than why...if its sustainable, done ethically and everything is utilized then the question is not why, but why not. Its not a magical creature, its not special, its just another animal in our environment. If you say no way to a gbear hunt, you might as well hang up the guns or bows, stop buying licenses and simply let others tell you what you should or shouldn't do. If we let them shut down the gbear hunt, the next will be black bear (already happened on QCI), and then it will be big bucks because they are magestic and beautiful...

So I am choosing to excercise my right as a hunter to hunt any creature as long as we do it ethically, and by doing this I am supporting those that really are into it, the guys that dream of that hunt. We should not choose what we find acceptable and pass judgement on others in our community, but rather support each other as long as it meets 2 criteria...ethical and sustainable.

Don't ask why, but ask why not. As soon as you ask why, you are siding with the anti hunters who have choosen this angle to attack us on, and when they achieve the outcome there, they will pick another angle to attack us on.
Very, very well said.....

[HarryToolips]

I posted regarding two Blackies I butchered that were totally crawling with red pinworms a few years ago.
That did it for me and bear hunting..
Weird, outa the bears myself and a couple buddies have shot, weve never had any of these problems....

[300rum700]

do people honestly think roads are the reason wolves are being seen in new areas???? Let's be honest.....there are huge areas of Canada that do not have roads but guess what....wolves live there or travel through. Due to high ungulate populations the wolf population has exploded. Packs will split and create new packs and find new territory but it doesn't have anything to do with roads.

No. We don't have higher ungulate populations, we've created more access via roads and cut blocks for wolves to travel and become more efficient at hunting which has caused an increase in wolf numbers and a decrease in ungulates.

[adriaticum]

Since we are on this, the reason I don`t eat bears anymore is because I shot a nice young blackie boar for meat and was cutting steaks off a nice loin when the phone rang. 10 minits later I got back to work and all these thin hair-like worms were crawling out of the cut end of the loin.A fall berry fed bear too. Yeah, tell me about all the deer and elk you have seen with parasites.

I've seen this in fish.
I don't think bears are unique in having parasites in their tissue

[adriaticum]

i remember someone else mentioning the worms (filarial worms) and ow they quit eating bear out of respect for the "white spirit worms" heheheheh

Lol man you're on a roll here

[.264winmag]

Since we are on this, the reason I don`t eat bears anymore is because I shot a nice young blackie boar for meat and was cutting steaks off a nice loin when the phone rang. 10 minits later I got back to work and all these thin hair-like worms were crawling out of the cut end of the loin.A fall berry fed bear too. Yeah, tell me about all the deer and elk you have seen with parasites.

Ever hunted moose where there's a good population of wolves? Wolves piss in the water, swamp donkey eats/drinks from that water and gets worms. It's pretty common...

[Stone C. Killer]

If everyone that hunted ungulates hunted predators as well the world would be a better place.

[sawmill]

i remember someone else mentioning the worms (filarial worms) and ow they quit eating bear out of respect for the "white spirit worms" heheheheh

I quit eating bear meat out of respect for my health. I don`t want those things in me. Screw the "spirit worms" Must be a David Motorcycle thing.

[sawmill]

I posted regarding two Blackies I butchered that were totally crawling with red pinworms a few years ago.
That did it for me and bear hunting..
Glad to know I`m not alone. Ain`t gonna kill it if I ain`t gonna eat it.

[sausage lover]

Mmmm........yummy bear worms:lol:

[Wild one]

do people honestly think roads are the reason wolves are being seen in new areas???? Let's be honest.....there are huge areas of Canada that do not have roads but guess what....wolves live there or travel through. Due to high ungulate populations the wolf population has exploded. Packs will split and create new packs and find new territory but it doesn't have anything to do with roads.

Man did creat conditions that benefit the wolves travel and hunting by building roads. Add in the correct winter conditions and wolves become very successful do to the conditions. Yes they can live without them but no doubt they benefit from roads, pipelines and any other travel routes man builds

Would not say ungulate populations are high in many locations in BC. Personally see wolves as only 1 factor that effects game numbers and many parts of BC I would say impact is low compared to others. I don't see high wolf numbers being a blanketed across BC issue but is a big factor in some areas in my opinion

When it comes to predators I see it as man cannot just take animals from the prey category of the food chain and expect balance. If you want balance you need to target both predator and prey

[kevan]

Glad to know I`m not alone. Ain`t gonna kill it if I ain`t gonna eat it.

Exactly !!

[RiverOtter]

Yep, and the way things are headed currently, we're not going to have to worry about eating either(predator or ungulate). The "More Restrictions" crowd have a strong voice and seem very determined to ride the ship to the ocean floor.

[Stone C. Killer]

All hunters should view themselves as conservationists not just consumers

[.264winmag]

The # of b bears wandering around Revy last year was insane. Last I heard they had exterminated 20 last year alone. Overpopulation, bad berry crop? Either way it looks bad, hunting could level it out and at least the animal would be utilized...

[Stone C. Killer]

In these times anyone who wants to enjoy future sustainable hunting opportunities should support regulations that are based on science factoring in all species and the entire ecosystem.

[HarryToolips]

If everyone that hunted ungulates hunted predators as well the world would be a better place.
Very.true.........

[Grizz.325]

I believe grizzly hunting is important especially for those of us that live in their environment all the time. Sure, I enjoy the challenge of hunting an apex predator, and their hides r a unique and special conversation piece in any serious hunters trophy room but the most important factor is that we as hunters r installing and maintaining a fear of humans in grizzly bears. They r one of the smartest animals on the planet, and also one of the most deadly. When they know they r hunted by humans they r usually pretty good at keeping their distance from us and avoiding human contact when possible. That saves bears and humans a lot of grief. If u look at statistics in Alberta, where Grizzlies r no longer hunted the bear r now becoming more aggressive to livestock and encroaching on human areas without the same fear they once had. The result is bears r being shot and buried and game wardens r called out more often to dispatch problem bears. Likely the same number of bears r being killed but now not for sport but out of necessity. A true hunter of Grizzlies has the utmost respect for them and hunts to maintain a balance. Bears that cause damage to property and livestock do so because they have lost that fear and respect for humans and our guns and as a result the human looses respect for the bear.