Pet Insurance

[Iron Glove]

Occasionally the subject comes up here, opinions range from "a waste of $$" to "a must have" so thought I would post our recent actual experience. First, full disclosure - I was in the Insurance Industry for over 45 years, never in Pet Insurance so I do have some biases.
We have had Insurance on our dogs for years. Our 14 year old recently went through a somewhat serious spell involving extensive surgery and now chemo. Costs to date are @ $9,000 with at least another $1,000 to go and depending on results could go on for a long time. Our Insurance covers @ 80% of that after the deductible, co-insurance and things that are excluded. Over the years we have had a number of relatively minor Vet visits for the dogs and in most cases don't bother claiming, we have the Insurance for "The Big One." If one just considers the economics of it, we've paid maybe $6,000 in premiums on this dog so we certainly haven't "lost" on the deal.
Had a long chat with the Surgeon after all this and he says that many pet owners simply can't afford the cost of care so the pet gets put down.
Having Insurance removes that from the equation leaving the pet owner to decide if the treatment is reasonable under the circumstances for quality or longevity of life.
In our situation we would have proceeded with the treatment whether or not Insurance was available, finances are not an issue for us but it really is nice not have to dig into the savings.
The Insurer we have sent the settlement cheque to us before the bills even showed up on my Master Card, certainly can't complain about the service.
Our dog is 14 but according to all the Vets that have seen her has the body of a 10 year old. One of the Vets didn't believe she was 14 so checked her ID and was amazed. Hopefully she has a number of good years still to come.
So, to all you pet owners, think about it and make an informed decision. It works for some, maybe not for others.

[MB_Boy]

Who did you go thru? Our pup just turned a year old and was looking at different providers a month or two ago but need to get back at figuring this out.

[russm]

We've looked into quite a few different ones and they seem to be pretty restrictive on what they'll cover based on the breed of the dog.

[Piperdown]

Good on you Iron Glove i knew you were a stand up guy, even if you root for the nucks. We too have pet insurance, have had it for 2 dogs and it has paid off for us with both of them. Some people will get it when they first get their dog and keep it for the first couple of years as this can be the time when lots of things may show themselves. The service we have received form the insurer has been awesome, Trupanion is who we use. I think i have loved my dogs more than i have most people :)...hhhmmm maybe that's because they don't hide behind the invisible wall of the internet :mrgreen:

[Iron Glove]

We are with Trupanion, have been since the start.
Very pleased with them and the coverages provided. With them you can choose different plans ranging from a basic one up to one that covers almost everything. All at a cost of course. I sat down last year and changed the deductible around a bit, taking a higher deductible on the younger dog on the assumption that being younger less chance of disease and such. With the juggling we saved enough to add the cat and still were paying less than before just for the two mutts.
And yes Pipey, over the years this particular little girl has helped me through a lot of personal schitt so the least I can do for her is to do everything within my power and wallet to see her through her troubles.
Had to laugh with the present claim, I couldn't figure out how they calculated it so emailed them about it. They said that taxes are not recoverable. Being an Insurance Expert I kinda lost it and told them that was unheard of as it was against the principal of indemnity. The Trupanion Gal politely referred me to the wordings where taxes are clearly excluded. So Mr. Insurance Expert humbly begged forgiveness for ignoring the first rule of Insurance - "READ YOUR POLICY DUMMY"

[Rhyno]

When my dog was young the vet tried to sell us on a plan that would have cost around $3000, I don't remember the coverage it provided exactly. As a rule of thumb my limit for vet expenses is no more than the price I paid for the dog.... or about $50:shock:

[SignalLight]

I have a policy with Trupanion as well. From my research it is the best of the worst (we're talking about the insurance industry after all). Before I got my dog I had set cash aside for an emergency health fund but reconsidered after determining the opportunity cost on having the fund liquid in this low interest rate environment surpassed the monthly premiums for a dog with no pre-existing conditions. I set a higher deductible on the policy because my cashflow situation allows me to absorb a monthly hospital visit or two for simple things but gets squeezed when a 10k surgery has to be paid for. When considering risk for a young dog, while there is less that can go wrong as far as disease and injury go, the events that do come up (ie eating the laundry) tend to be very expensive to deal with.

[Iron Glove]

Signal, you should be in the Insurance Industry - you understand and practice risk analysis and self insurance. :mrgreen:
But yes, taking a substantial deductible will reduce your premiums considerably as will accepting a higher co-insurance factor.
Those options are some of the reasons we chose Trupanion.
Everyone has to take a look at their personal financial situation and decide what they can, or will accept to absorb.
Our Daughter's Lab has racked up bills of @ $28,000 over two years ( that's Trupanion's share, their share is probably another $5,000 or more ) and their situation with two infants, a mortgage ....................... would've left them having to have the dog put down if they didn't have insurance.

[Ohwildwon]

I have a basic emergency care with, 24petwatch, for my dog and thinking of increasing it..

looking at $5000 with max $500 deductible, have to get a quote for the cost...

Any thoughts on pet watch, how do costs go up after your first claim?

[Frango]

As Rhyno states the value of the dog is pretty much what I paid.We have a German shepherd(our 5th shepherd and most likely our last dog) we paid $1500 for him.That is about it for what I would pay for vet services. As much as we love our dog it is still a dog. As hunters we value life and should treat it with honor. At some point one must come to a common sense decision on what to do .Losing a dog is very hard .As hunters we know that something dies if we are successful. All creatures die at some point. It is a very emotional time when pets become sick. Veterinarians know this and take advantage of it. Spending thousands on trying to save your pet is certainly your option. Don't let your emotion and a vet clinic make your decision .

[srupp]

Hmm our last lab tore her knee..no insurance.. $1700...6 months later her other knee went.. $1700..no insurance..paid up..then Morgan developed rare face cancer and rapid deterioration..vet went on about $15,000 might give her a extra 6 months..we humanely had her put down as no significant improvement in her quality and length of life was assured..

Love our current hair child Ebony..no insurance..injury or illness..costs will be a factor..
Srupp

[mulieaddiction]

We just picked up are chocolate lab today! Hes 8 weeks going to be a great hunting dpg already knows sit and house trained! We also are going to be going with trupanion

[Iron Glove]

Spending thousands on trying to save your pet is certainly your option. Don't let your emotion and a vet clinic make your decision .

And that's exactly the reason that many take out Pet Insurance. It removes the worry / concern / emotions and then it's simply a "what's best for the dog" decision.
In our situation, if the treatment is successful then we can hope for maybe 2 more good years which is basically what we expected from her in any event.
Everyone's comfort level is different, some may consider $1,500 the max., others $20,000 or more, I'm certainly not going to criticize either.

[lorneparker1]

We have PC Pet insurance, They pay 80%. $200 deductible. Haven't had to use it yet, but will be happy I have it If I ever have to.

[Red_Mist]

Pet insurance is a scam imo. Your far better off collecting your own cash for a rainy day , when your dog may possibly need help.

[Iron Glove]

I have a basic emergency care with, 24petwatch, for my dog and thinking of increasing it..

looking at $5000 with max $500 deductible, have to get a quote for the cost...

Any thoughts on pet watch, how do costs go up after your first claim?

Had a lengthy reply done but it disappeared. :shock: Am at the cabin with Internet service that sometimes is iffy so I'll try again.
pet watch is with Northridge, a good Company but no local reps. When I deal with Trupanion I deal with North Van.
Pet watch offers a number of alternatives for limits, coverages, deductibles etc. as does Trupanion. Petwatch is 80% coinsurance, Trupanion allows you to select coinsurance options. One concern with pet watch is it has policy limits, Trupanion is limitless. You can blow through $5,000 pretty quickly. Trupanion does not increase premiums due to your claims, not sure @ pet watch. Pet watch does include a number of extra coverages like Boarding, cremation lost pet and such. I believe you can get similar with Trupanion but you have to buy an upgraded policy.
I couldn't find the pet watch policy wording so can't offer an educated comment on that.
Trupanion has lower rates for us in Hope than we did in Vancouver due to lower Vet fees here - nice gesture.

[Iron Glove]

Pet insurance is a scam imo. Your far better off collecting your own cash for a rainy day , when your dog may possibly need help.

I'm not going to bother replying other than to say that for us it's provided a level of security in the event of a catastrophic loss and ultimately we have received more in claim payments than we have paid in premiums.
"Scam", whatever. :roll:

[Red_Mist]

IG, your story would be the rare one in terms of collecting more claim payments then making premiums. Otherwise every insurance company would be broke and not profitable.... so yes, its a scam. :smile:

[Iron Glove]

IG, your story would be the rare one in terms of collecting more claim payments then making premiums. Otherwise every insurance company would be broke and not profitable.... so yes, its a scam. :smile:

With logic like that, then ALL forms of insurance would be a "scam." The basic concept of Insurance is that "The premiums of the many pay the losses of the few."
I would assume with your opinion of Insurance that you don't carry any insurance other than what you are compelled to by Law, such as the bare minimum on your autos? To do otherwise would make you a hypocrite at best, a participant in a "scam" at worst. ;)
Insurance is there for the large, possibly catastrophic losses, let's you sleep better at night.

[adriaticum]

Insurance is both good and bad.
In the short term it helps with costs but in the long term keeps prices artificially high.

Insurance is a bad business concept that is contributing to sky rocketing prices of services and devalues tangible goods.
Everything becomes replaceable.

[Everett]

Vets are scum worse then used car salesman and pet insurance is just part of the same scumbag industry. How to deal with a vet when they you give a stupid quote to save your dog, offer them $500 to $1000 cash to fix the problem if they refuse tell them you are going to shoot the dog in there parking lot. You will find out what type of vet they are right then and there.
Always look for a farm vet avoid all vets who bother treating cats these are words to live by.

[Iron Glove]

Insurance is both good and bad.
In the short term it helps with costs but in the long term keeps prices artificially high.

Insurance is a bad business concept that is contributing to sky rocketing prices of services and devalues tangible goods.
Everything becomes replaceable.

Then don't but it, simple as that. :smile:
I could offer up a lengthy dissertation about why you are out to lunch but there's not much point.

[Red_Mist]

Your correct IG, when ever possible I carry the least amount of insurance possible. To bring it back to your OP and pet insurance I'll share my experience. Paid $40 a month for 7 years. Dog injured her cruciate ligament and required surgery. I decided to treat conservatively with a brace instead. Cost on the custom orthopaedic brace was $1500....
half the cost of surgery. They covered $350, and that's all. Same company tried to insist that no injuries incured
from "running " or "jumping" would be covered. It's an effing dog , what else do they do ? Anyways point is I cancelled and put away $40 a month for her, had I done that from the beginning the entire brace would b covered by my savings. I get everyone has a different ceiling of what they would spend , it's just mine isn't very high. So stories of thousands upon thousands spent on a dog aren't what I would do. Btw the brace worked amazingly well ! She doesn't even limp and never injured the other leg which often happens within 6 months of the first injury. She's 10 years old now.

[AgSilver]

Your correct IG, when ever possible I carry the least amount of insurance possible. To bring it back to your OP and pet insurance I'll share my experience. Paid $40 a month for 7 years. Dog injured her cruciate ligament and required surgery. I decided to treat conservatively with a brace instead. Cost on the custom orthopaedic brace was $1500....
half the cost of surgery. They covered $350, and that's all. Same company tried to insist that no injuries incured
from "running " or "jumping" would be covered. It's an effing dog , what else do they do ? Anyways point is I cancelled and put away $40 a month for her, had I done that from the beginning the entire brace would b covered by my savings. I get everyone has a different ceiling of what they would spend , it's just mine isn't very high. So stories of thousands upon thousands spent on a dog aren't what I would do. Btw the brace worked amazingly well ! She doesn't even limp and never injured the other leg which often happens within 6 months of the first injury. She's 10 years old now.

Just guessing, but sounds like you may have had an "illness only" policy or similar. I had this discussion with our insurer, PetSecure, and opted for broader coverage for our (at that time) very young chocolate lab. Our vet, a good friend of mine (and very good person, might I add), recommended that I have a velcro flap installed on our lab's abdomen as, if he stayed true to form with her experience with chocolate labs, he'd be in to see her regularly for eating all sorts of things. We opted for pet insurance instead.

When, at 5 years old, he tore his CCL while playing up at Buntzen, our coverage at the time allowed us to make the decision to go to a very good surgeon for the repairs and be reimbursed for a reasonable amount of those repairs. Then, when his second leg went six months later, we were able to go back and do it all again as we'd rolled over into the next insurance year. I believe that, next time, we'll look to other insurers like Trupanion as I prefer the idea of a "no limit" policy.

We probably pay too much for our coverage. At the time of the first repair, we'd paid about $2400 into it and go $2500 back and the second time around, we were way ahead of the curve. We upped our coverage after that to the $5000 limit as well, as I get concerned about future large issues like cancer, etc. I do it because (a) I can afford it and (b) the piece of mind is worth it.

I am one of those sappy types that feels that my dog is not "just a dog, after all." When the surgeries came up, people said things like "why would you ever pay for surgery on a dog?" or "at that price, I'd just put him down." I equated it to putting down Uncle Tom because he broke his hip....a repairable injury where he'd be left (effectively) intact after recovery. I'm not going to kill my dog for that.

Mind you, those other people probably won't let him sleep in the bed with them, too. Guess I'm a sucker.

[Iron Glove]

Well said AgSilver.
When I started this post it was simply to mention our experiences with Pet Insurance and to counter some people's negative opinions about it, and possibly insurance in general. With my life long experience in the Insurance Industry and our Daughter's lengthy experience in first the Vet business and now in Animal Health and her ongoing Pet Insurance claims with, of all things, a Chocolate Lab that eats everything :smile: I felt I could add a bit of experience and possibly expertise to the topic.
We value our dogs for well more than some arbitrary dollar value, and we have chosen to do our very best for them, be it financially or otherwise. If others feel differently about their dogs, so be it.
Glad to read that you, and others feel the same way.
After a long spell of difficulty with one of our kids ( the human type ) I said to the Wife in exasperation "If I had it to do all over again I'd have more dogs and less kids." :wink:

[Angus]

Same as Iron Glove, I've had insurance on my now 11 yr old lab since I got him. It's about $60/month that is of no consequence to me (one less lunch with beers, or round of golf per month), but it does give me that peace of mind so that the "big ticket" vet bills are mostly covered.

Its a personal choice and takes the financial impact out of the decision making process when deciding how to proceed.

[Piperdown]

Did i tell you folks I LOVE MY DOG, so money is not an issue!

[lorneparker1]

Vets are scum worse then used car salesman and pet insurance is just part of the same scumbag industry. How to deal with a vet when they you give a stupid quote to save your dog, offer them $500 to $1000 cash to fix the problem if they refuse tell them you are going to shoot the dog in there parking lot. You will find out what type of vet they are right then and there.
Always look for a farm vet avoid all vets who bother treating cats these are words to live by.

I think you need a new vet. I would never refer to any of the vets I have used as scum.

[BigSlapper]

You are a good man Pipes!
Did i tell you folks I LOVE MY DOG, so money is not an issue!

[Ohwildwon]

Well said AgSilver.
When I started this post it was simply to mention our experiences with Pet Insurance and to counter some people's negative opinions about it, and possibly insurance in general. With my life long experience in the Insurance Industry and our Daughter's lengthy experience in first the Vet business and now in Animal Health and her ongoing Pet Insurance claims with, of all things, a Chocolate Lab that eats everything :smile: I felt I could add a bit of experience and possibly expertise to the topic.
We value our dogs for well more than some arbitrary dollar value, and we have chosen to do our very best for them, be it financially or otherwise. If others feel differently about their dogs, so be it.
Glad to read that you, and others feel the same way.
After a long spell of difficulty with one of our kids ( the human type ) I said to the Wife in exasperation "If I had it to do all over again I'd have more dogs and less kids." :wink:

Thanks for all your valuable information!

Definitely going to go with Trupanion, my dog Dash is so, ****ing, awesome,

could not imagine trying to live with myself over, whatever a month..

[AgSilver]

I think you need a new vet. I would never refer to any of the vets I have used as scum.

Truth. I've known a few including one who is a good friend and one that my mom used to date many, many years ago. They've all been very good people. And genuinely want to help animals, period.

[Piperdown]

You are a good man Pipes!

Thanks Brad and I know you love your buddy too, be coming through your way on the way to the cabin in May

[Elkhound]

Vets are scum worse then used car salesman and pet insurance is just part of the same scumbag industry. How to deal with a vet when they you give a stupid quote to save your dog, offer them $500 to $1000 cash to fix the problem if they refuse tell them you are going to shoot the dog in there parking lot. You will find out what type of vet they are right then and there.
Always look for a farm vet avoid all vets who bother treating cats these are words to live by.

As with any industry. Dentists. Mechanics etc....... you have great ones and you have shitty ones. My vet is awesome and trust her completely. As for used cars. Go see my wife. She will change your mind on car sales people lol

[35rem]

As a veterinarian I deal with pet insurance claims on a daily basis. My experiences with both Petsecure and Trupanion have been good; most clients are happy with their products. Of course it is important to read the fine print and make sure you choose the insurance level you want for your pet.

As to Everett's comments: Not sure what your issue is, but I have never met a veterinarian who went in to veterinary medicine for the money. In fact, most of the vets I know are poor business man/women.

We do however have an obligation to explain ALL options to EVERY client. Just like human medicine, the options for treatment have increased significantly, but so has the cost. CT scans, MRIs and even organ transplants are possible. Some owners feel that spending more than $50 on a pet is frivolous, others will happily spend $28,000 on their 4-legged companion. It is not our job to judge people or make their choices; it is our job to explain what is wrong with the animal and explain all options; including costs and expected outcome. And no, I do not accept money under table; I run a legitimate business and pay my taxes. Threatening to shoot an animal in my parking lot will result in a complaint to the RCMP and SPCA. Comments like these give law abiding gun owners a bad name.

[barry1974w]

I didn't even know pet insurance was a thing, definitely going to look into it now.

[BimmerBob]

Occasionally the subject comes up here, opinions range from "a waste of $$" to "a must have" so thought I would post our recent actual experience. First, full disclosure - I was in the Insurance Industry for over 45 years, never in Pet Insurance so I do have some biases.
We have had Insurance on our dogs for years. Our 14 year old recently went through a somewhat serious spell involving extensive surgery and now chemo. Costs to date are @ $9,000 with at least another $1,000 to go and depending on results could go on for a long time. Our Insurance covers @ 80% of that after the deductible, co-insurance and things that are excluded. Over the years we have had a number of relatively minor Vet visits for the dogs and in most cases don't bother claiming, we have the Insurance for "The Big One." If one just considers the economics of it, we've paid maybe $6,000 in premiums on this dog so we certainly haven't "lost" on the deal.
Had a long chat with the Surgeon after all this and he says that many pet owners simply can't afford the cost of care so the pet gets put down.
Having Insurance removes that from the equation leaving the pet owner to decide if the treatment is reasonable under the circumstances for quality or longevity of life.
In our situation we would have proceeded with the treatment whether or not Insurance was available, finances are not an issue for us but it really is nice not have to dig into the savings.
The Insurer we have sent the settlement cheque to us before the bills even showed up on my Master Card, certainly can't complain about the service.
Our dog is 14 but according to all the Vets that have seen her has the body of a 10 year old. One of the Vets didn't believe she was 14 so checked her ID and was amazed. Hopefully she has a number of good years still to come.
So, to all you pet owners, think about it and make an informed decision. It works for some, maybe not for others.

So, if I read this right then you are going to have to cover $2k of the $10k bill and have paid $6k in premiums so your total is $8k for this one dog (and you are paying the same premium on the other dog as well?)

Would it then be that your total premiums are about $12k (2 dogs) plus deductible of $2k for $14k total and the vet bill is about $10k, how does that make it a good investment? Especially since the premiums were paid in prior years incurring a lost opportunity cost.

Just trying to understand the numbers, not trying to rag on you at all here IG.

Cheers, Bob

[Chopper]

I found a mut three years ago, shepard/huskey. He has alergies, so he needs speacial food that is $100 a month. At 38 months, were at $3800 just in food. He has problems with his teeth, so a couple visits there was another $800 over the past couple years. Last week i had his teeth looked at "cleaning ect" found out he need two pulled, add and xray into that for his now fked up back, and i was soaked for another $1500. He's a great dog, and worth the money. But this dog was free ... as in $6100 " free" over 3 years. Hes 9 now and will be around for a few more years i would imagine. He will get the care he needs, we are fortunate finacially. When hes gone were not getting another dog. Finacially its rediculous

[Iron Glove]

So, if I read this right then you are going to have to cover $2k of the $10k bill and have paid $6k in premiums so your total is $8k for this one dog (and you are paying the same premium on the other dog as well?)

Would it then be that your total premiums are about $12k (2 dogs) plus deductible of $2k for $14k total and the vet bill is about $10k, how does that make it a good investment? Especially since the premiums were paid in prior years incurring a lost opportunity cost.

Just trying to understand the numbers, not trying to rag on you at all here IG.

Cheers, Bob

Not a problem Bob.
I haven't included the premiums paid for the other dog as it is a different "risk" one could say, I'm only relating the situation regarding the dog with the serious problem. But, for what it's worth, the second dog has been with us for about 6 years so if you want to include him the total premiums for the two to date would be @ $9,000.
I haven't mentioned that both dogs have had claims in past so if you want to do a complete "is it worth it" then we would have to include those claims. I'd have to go back through our records, if we even still have them but I'd guess about $4,000 total for the two dogs. That would be $4,000 after deductions. So the overall situation would then be $9,000 in premiums paid to date, with "pay back" to us of @ $12,000. If the present claim proceeds the way it looks like it's going, we could well be in for considerably more as each chemo treatment is @ $1,000. Will know more about the ongoing care next week. As this claim progresses, the "pay back" percentage rises above the 80% factor I initially used as the deductible only applies once, that's already been dealt with and many of the excluded expenses will not repeat.
So in simple terms I guess I could say that over the 12 years with one dog and 6 with the other, we have paid @ $9,000 in premiums and have recovered @ $12,000 in claims, with that amount increasing. Yes, if we had invested the funds over that term we may have done better by investing the premiums however we may also have racked up way more Vet bills, nothing's guaranteed.
Also during that period of time, I went from being a 6 figure Company President to a zero figure guy setting up a Company where if a serious accident had arisen with our dog we simply would not have been able to afford it. That's the basis of insurance, it's not to make money or "win", it's to protect you against a financial loss that you can't sustain.

[nature girl]

I think people have to think of a pet as having a child something is wrong with your pet take it to the vet. Don't think something is wrong with it oh I will take it out back and shoot it.
You have many great years with having a pet. Personally I like cats. I have had to cats that lived to be 13 years old. My last cat I think of him everyday. He was a joy to have and to be around.
Some of you are dog owners and love your dog and have good times with your dog.
You take a responsibility with taking on a animal so then take it. Don't say Ill get rid of it and get another one. It that what you do when you have a child.
I know a lot of you are responsible pet owners so thank you. But some are not in this world of ours.

[BimmerBob]

Not a problem Bob.
I haven't included the premiums paid for the other dog as it is a different "risk" one could say, I'm only relating the situation regarding the dog with the serious problem. But, for what it's worth, the second dog has been with us for about 6 years so if you want to include him the total premiums for the two to date would be @ $9,000.
I haven't mentioned that both dogs have had claims in past so if you want to do a complete "is it worth it" then we would have to include those claims. I'd have to go back through our records, if we even still have them but I'd guess about $4,000 total for the two dogs. That would be $4,000 after deductions. So the overall situation would then be $9,000 in premiums paid to date, with "pay back" to us of @ $12,000. If the present claim proceeds the way it looks like it's going, we could well be in for considerably more as each chemo treatment is @ $1,000. Will know more about the ongoing care next week. As this claim progresses, the "pay back" percentage rises above the 80% factor I initially used as the deductible only applies once, that's already been dealt with and many of the excluded expenses will not repeat.
So in simple terms I guess I could say that over the 12 years with one dog and 6 with the other, we have paid @ $9,000 in premiums and have recovered @ $12,000 in claims, with that amount increasing. Yes, if we had invested the funds over that term we may have done better by investing the premiums however we may also have racked up way more Vet bills, nothing's guaranteed.
Also during that period of time, I went from being a 6 figure Company President to a zero figure guy setting up a Company where if a serious accident had arisen with our dog we simply would not have been able to afford it. That's the basis of insurance, it's not to make money or "win", it's to protect you against a financial loss that you can't sustain.

Thanks for clarifying the numbers IG, much appreciated.

Good luck with your dog, hoping for the best. Bob

[Iron Glove]

Bob, when it comes to our mutts, Pet Insurance is one of the least expenses.
Damn things eat better than we do, get all the toys they want, get better health care ........................
When I retired awhile back I rewarded myself by trading in the Ranger on an F-150 with all the extras.
Drive it home, show the Wife thinking she'd be impressed.
All she said was "Molly and Ripley will really like the back seat, it's so much bigger than the Ranger, I'm so happy for them." Ya right, I buy a $55,000 truck just for the dogs. :mrgreen:

[BgBlkDg]

That shows that you have a noble spirit, what would we not do for our "fur kids"?

When, we lost Can. Champ. Quean Lily Loveliface, last May 31, large, inoperable abdominal tumour, the costs were minimal and we have never had pet insurance. I am probably done with dogs and cats, due to health and family issues, but, crave a fine PB B&T Std. Dachshund male from Brunners and another PB male Rottgod from Trojan Kennels of Mission.

IF, I can get these dogs, I will buy pet insurance based on your advice here as I consider it a very, very good asset when a person's beloved pet(s) are sick or injured. No pets live better than mine and I agree with your lady, buying the new truck with the pups in mind IS the way to go.

[AgSilver]

...buying the new truck with the pups in mind IS the way to go.

Our last four vehicles have all had strong "how will the dog fit in here?" considerations. Especially for me because I historically took him with me so much of the time.

[M.Dean]

So, pet insurance eh! So, if I was to go into town today and insure my cat for, lets say, well, a new truck, boat, couple new quads, so about 300 hundred grand, and it got accidentally run over tomorrow, well no, not tomorrow, going fish'in, lets say it got squashed on Friday, could I pick the cheque up like on Monday or even Tuesday??? And I loved that olde cat, Really!!!

[Iron Glove]

So, pet insurance eh! So, if I was to go into town today and insure my cat for, lets say, well, a new truck, boat, couple new quads, so about 300 hundred grand, and it got accidentally run over tomorrow, well no, not tomorrow, going fish'in, lets say it got squashed on Friday, could I pick the cheque up like on Monday or even Tuesday??? And I loved that olde cat, Really!!!

That sounds like a Catastrophic loss. :lol:

[SignalLight]

Yes, if we had invested the funds over that term we may have done better by investing the premiums however we may also have racked up way more Vet bills, nothing's guaranteed.


Given the requirements for a pet emergency fund (liquid and quickly accessible) constraining your investment vehicle options, the zero risk return you would have realized over the past 12 years would have been negative in real terms so you're definitely ahead going the route you did.

One thing I can't reconcile with these 'I paid x for my dog so I'm not going to spend more than x on it at the vet' types is they aren't attributing any value to any improvements in the animal. Assuming it is a hunting dog, there will be a lot of time and money invested in developing it into a capable animal in the field. Assuming the dog is healthy and structurally sound, using a capital cost approach only makes sense if the dog needs treatment almost immediately after leaving the breeder's on pickup day because that is the point when they have the lowest economic value. If I took this economic approach, I would definitely be factoring in all the inputs like maintenance and most importantly, time which is the largest cost in owning and raising a decent dog.

[Iron Glove]

Given the requirements for a pet emergency fund (liquid and quickly accessible) constraining your investment vehicle options, the zero risk return you would have realized over the past 12 years would have been negative in real terms so you're definitely ahead going the route you did.

One thing I can't reconcile with these 'I paid x for my dog so I'm not going to spend more than x on it at the vet' types is they aren't attributing any value to any improvements in the animal. Assuming it is a hunting dog, there will be a lot of time and money invested in developing it into a capable animal in the field. Assuming the dog is healthy and structurally sound, using a capital cost approach only makes sense if the dog needs treatment almost immediately after leaving the breeder's on pickup day because that is the point when they have the lowest economic value. If I took this economic approach, I would definitely be factoring in all the inputs like maintenance and most importantly, time which is the largest cost in owning and raising a decent dog.

Yup, you get it. :D
Our last dog was "free" because we agreed on a 3 times stud service so if I took the "ain't paying more than I paid" approach he would've been put down pretty quick. :roll:
People tend to look at most forms of insurance as a "win or lose" situation with "winning" being you recover in claims more than you paid in premiums and "losing" being the opposite. They fail to factor in the "I can sleep at nights" aspect. Using the "win or lose" philosophy, I guess my wearing a PFD every time I go boating is a "loss" as I've never had to use the PFD. :D
With a dog, factor in feeding, vaccinations, training, toys, equipment, liscences, ............................. and the insurance costs are relatively insignificant.

[Ron.C]

I know this is a bit of an older thread, but I just went through this for my puppy and read this thread before I spoke to some companies.

She is a 4 month old lab. I called Pet plus. They took over the PC pet insurance.

2 coverage levels a ($7500 and $15000). You can chose 70,80, or 90% coverage and 100,200 , or $ 300 deductible.

For my pup, the highest coverage , $15000 coverage at 90% with a $100 deductible would be $90.38 a month.

In comparison the lowest coverage, $7500 @70% with a $300 deductible is $60.78

I also asked, worse case scenario " my do gets shot while hunting". I am covered. She eats a rotten seal and gets I'll, I'm covered.

Basically covered from initial visit to completion of rehab up to the max amount at the percentage chosen.

You have to maintain regular vet checks at your expense but if during a routine checkup and the vet notices something that requires treatment, it is covered.

Common breed specific issues are factored in with the quote and covered.

Big item of note, ANY issue that has required vet care before the insurance is purchased is considered a pre-existing condition. So you may be out of luck if you have future issues.The example provided to me was an ear infection. If your dog has had one before insurance is purchased, the insurer will consider all related ear issues as pre-existing.

Premiums are set and don't increase as dog ages. That said, you can increase or decrease coverage and dogs age will be a factor if a change is made.

My brother in law just spent nearly 8k on a two year old pointer to have her knee repaired. And my buddy spent about $4700 because his mutt ate some shit in his shed that nearly killed him.

To each his own I guess. My pup is hopefully going to be my hunting partner and family member for a long tome to come. Am I taking a loss if I never have to use the insurance ? I don't think so, considering some of the stupid crap I waste money on. Just means my dog lived a healthy life. Will my pup get the best treatment I can afford. Absolutely.

Of course, there is law as the fine print. Before I sign Ill be carefully reviewing the policy.

[lorneparker1]

We have pet plus. We pay around $50. We have had nothing but good expereinces with them. I think anyone who has a working dog that is also a family pet that doesnt get insurance is crazy.

[Iron Glove]

Ron, good on you for looking into pet insurance for your best friend.
A couple of comments on the quote:
1. Does the policy exclude the initial examination?
2. Are taxes included or excluded?
3. Are dog "fights" excluded?
4. Are Vet specified foods covered? If your dog suffers from renal degradation and you have to use special foods, that'll be covered. Note that some plans will not pay for the cost of Raw diets.
5. Is the Limit an annual limit or a "condition" limit?
These are a few of the issues that I have run across over the years and they can make a big difference in what, if anything you get back from the Insurer.
Think very carefully about the limit that you take - $7,500 can be eaten up pretty quickly on any serious "incidents".
We are at @ $20,000 on our girl's cancer treatment.
Get a quote from an Insurer that offers "unlimited" to see if the difference in cost is warranted.
Looking at your quotes, I'd take the higher limit with a higher deductible.

[Ron.C]

Iron Glove, this is what I know:

1. Does the policy exclude the initial examination?

Yes, but in my case because my puppy is 4 months, they will contact the vet and get her health and vaccination records that will cover the initial exam

2. Are taxes included or excluded?
Taxes are included in the amounts paid back to you under all Pets Plus Us coverage.

All benefit maximums are per policy year and apply to after-tax amounts.

3. Are dog "fights" excluded?

Injuries from Organized Dog Fighting are excluded

4. Are Vet specified foods covered? If your dog suffers from renal degradation and you have to use special foods, that'll be covered. Note that some plans will not pay for the cost of Raw diets.

No, foods are excluded

5. Is the Limit an annual limit or a "condition" limit?

Annual Limit

[Iron Glove]

Ron, sounds like a good overall package.
My query about the initial exam was for the Vet's exam each time you bring the dog in as a result of an "incident" - some policies exclude that charge.
My policy excludes injuries arising from "fights" in general, not limited to "organized fights" but also the normal two dogs in a melee thing. Our dog was jumped one time by another dog, he didn't fight but the Insurers said "we don't cover fights." I said it wasn't a fight - it was an assault by another dog. The hemmed and hawed but in any event the minor injury was below the deductible.
Our Trupanion Policy doesn't cover taxes but will cover prescribed foods - just an example of how all policies are different and need to be read.
Have fun with your pup.

[mastercaster]

I've been paying my $55 per month ($700 deductible) Trupanion Ins. for 18 months now so basically a grand. My dog has only been to the vet for her annual shots and to be spayed so of course I'm wondering now if I should have just put $55 per month in a jar. That being said, she is a Hard driving dog with a second hunting season quickly approaching so you never know what could happen the way she leaps over barb wire fences and full speed ahead charges through the fields making retrieves, not to mention full out running with other dogs in the off leash area of the park we go to.

I guess there's always a chances of never seeing a financial return on what you've put into pet insurance and that's obviously a good thing for your dog!

[Iron Glove]

I guess there's always a chances of never seeing a financial return on what you've put into pet insurance and that's obviously a good thing for your dog!

So true, I would have gladly paid the premiums over the years on our old gal but not had to claim. :-(

[Ron.C]

Iron Glove

Some further clarification on your questions above:
-Deductible is only paid once per year on the first claim.
-Initial exam is covered for every vet visit for injury or illness
-Coverage is a yearly amount . If treatment of an illness or injury spans more than one year, you can use each your insurance max value for both years to treat the same illness.

I took your advice and got a quote for $15000 covering 90% with a $300 deductible.

$77.24/month

[Iron Glove]

Sounds like a decent overall deal Ron.
I'm a retired Insurance Executive, after almost 50 years in the business, so I take a keen interest in Insurance matters.
My advice to everyone, be it regarding Pets, Cars, Houses, Boats, whatever is to read your policy and ask questions before a claim arises.

[deltawaterfowler]

Thought I'd pass this on... we recently added Pets Plus insurance for our lab puppy. Here are the different pricing options:

Below you will see the options for your little vacuum... I mean Lab puppy! ��



Co-Insurance

Deductible

$7,500

15,000



90

100

91.83

110.46



90

200

85.02

102.49



90

300

78.1

94.39



80

100

83.06

99.05



80

200

77.00

91.97



80

300

70.86

84.78



70

100

74.29

87.65



70

200

68.99

81.45



70

300

63.96

75.16



*above are monthly premiums, valid for 30days

Our coverage is there to protect you from the unexpected costs of vet visits and pet parenthood often see us encounter.

Below you’ll find some highlights about what makes us different from other companies!



Exam fees and sales taxes are eligible for coverage – this can wind up saving you hundreds, especially on the big bills!
There is no need for additional riders for alternative therapies or access to vet hotline services – those are just part of our coverage and Blue Ribbon Benefits
Our deductibles are yearly and not per condition – meaning if you have a visit with more that one condition diagnosed you don’t have to satisfy that deductible out of pocket for every different thing.
In efforts of being transparent, we underwrite your policy upfront, this way you know exactly what your coverage will be like
We offer pay practice direct (pay directly to the vet) for claims over $1000 and handle claims within 3-10 days
We are proudly 100% Canadian
Our premiums don’t increase based on age – or claims history!


What I can say is that this insurance plan is fantastic. Worth its weight in gold. Our pup Molly cut her paw wide open several weeks back and required surgery and 10 stitches to her paw. Not only did the insurance cover the initial surgery, but all of the follow up related to it. I had my coverage in effect for less than 3 months and had to call in a claim. Absolutely no problem and super friendly and helpful service over the phone. Can't say enough about it. So glad that our little family member is covered in case of accident or illness.

For what it's worth, I did the 80%, 300 dollar deductible with $15,000 annual coverage.

[ajr5406]

Im in the process of deciphering through all the various insurance plans and companies to work out what is best for us: we have a 4 month of GSP.

This thread has been very helpful and certainly led me to think: what about self insurance??? What if instead of signing up for a plan, I put aside $50-$70 per month into a savings account? With most plans costing this much or more (the average seems to be around $80 with $5000-$15,000 max, 80% coverage and $300 deductible).

I know that overall, the population will generally spend more money on insurance than they will get back.

Is this something any of you guys do?

[Iron Glove]

Im in the process of deciphering through all the various insurance plans and companies to work out what is best for us: we have a 4 month of GSP.

This thread has been very helpful and certainly led me to think: what about self insurance??? What if instead of signing up for a plan, I put aside $50-$70 per month into a savings account? With most plans costing this much or more (the average seems to be around $80 with $5000-$15,000 max, 80% coverage and $300 deductible).

I know that overall, the population will generally spend more money on insurance than they will get back.

Is this something any of you guys do?

I know a few Breeders who "self insure" but realistically their situation is different - lots of dogs for short terms.
If you can be disciplined enough to put aside a reasonable amount and if you don't have an incident early on or a catastrophic one at any time, you'll be OK.
If however you are hit with a $20,000 incident early on, can you afford to pay for the Vet Services? Will you have to make a decision on your Dog's life based on finances or can you make the decision ( with Insurance) based on what will be best for your Dog's life?
Some of the more expensive plans are "all inclusive" and expensive, others are more intended for more serious, expensive incidents. Do you really need the "full meal deal" plan which is basically a maintenance plan?
Personally I'd suggest that if you are in a reasonably solid financial situation, buy a more limited ( in coverage, not in amount ) Insurance Plan with a higher deductible ( $1,000 or higher ) which will produce a very reasonable monthly premium but provide coverage in a catastrophic incident.
I've said it earlier but we would've paid out of our pockets for our Girl's cancer surgery and treatments but having the Insurance made the decision to go ahead with it easy.
On our newest dog we have a $1,000 deductible, no $$ limits on each incident or per year, and 90% coinsurance. It does not include exam fees, taxes or "maintenance". It's about $50 a month.

[ajr5406]

Good points Iron Glove! Certainly something I’ll keep in mind.

Are you with Trupanion?

[Iron Glove]

Good points Iron Glove! Certainly something I’ll keep in mind.

Are you with Trupanion?

Yes, we've been with Trupanion for about 14 years now.
We do benefit from a "multiple pet" discount as we have 2 dogs and 1 cat with them and we did notice a decent premium reduction when we moved from Vancouver to Hope. Apparently they factor in local Vet prices in their premiums.
They were very, very easy to deal with on our pet claims, in particular during the almost 2 years of continuous bills for our dog's cancer treatment. Very quick to pay.

[mastercaster]

I've been with Trupanion since I got my pup at 8 weeks of age and they keep bumping my premiums every year. My pups just over two years old and I haven't used my insurance even once. The only money I've spent at the vet is for annual shots/vaccinations and getting Sako spayed.

I started at $50 /mo.,,,,now it's $60/mo. with a $700 deductible. I'm questioning myself now whether I should have just put that money each month into a kitty jar.

[charlie_horse]

Had dental issues of 3k with a broken canine tooth and if we just did the inexpensive route and pulled the tooth there would be no more dental coverage from the insurer. So we did the fake tooth and it was covered @80%. Now e has a bad ass titanium canine! I wasn't about to put my mutt down over a tooth.