Residents allege poaching

[358mag]

Lets keep this civil boys + girls lots of info in this article for all hunters

Dustin Godfrey (http://www.castanet.net/reporter/Dustin-Godfrey) - Jan 30, 2017 / 3:43 pm | Story: 187430
http://www.castanet.net/content/2017/1/hunt_p3190786.jpg Photo: Contributed


Residents in the Greyback Mountain Road area are frustrated after two elk were allegedly killed and harvested on private property.
Inspector Tobe Sprado with the BC Conservation Officer Service says the incident is being investigated after two elk were killed, including one that was pregnant, and the meat was harvested. Sprado believes it happened on private property.
"Two elk were harvested on private property, which were retrieved," he said. "Later in the day a third elk was found, but I'd been led to believe it was isolated from the original incident."
The third elk is being assessed by the COS, as to whether it was also shot and whether it was connected to the previous incident.
Details are sparse from the COS, as there is an investigation ongoing on the matter.
The accused individuals, believed by Sprado to be from the Penticton Indian Band, were onsite when the conservation officer and RCMP officers arrived to the scene. Sprado said it was a positive interaction between those individuals and officers on scene.
He couldn't say whether or not any action was taken by officers during the incident.
"We're looking at possible noncompliances under the wildlife act, the trespass act and maybe the firearms act," Sprado said.
"We're leading the investigation, and the route, obviously, is charges or we can also look at possible restorative justice if the evidence would support any or either of both of those."
Sprado says First Nations people have the right under the Indian Act to hunt on Crown lands for food or ceremonial purposes, but not on private property without permission.
Victoria Kryzanowski says she's owned the land where the incident is alleged to have taken place for about 15 years, and has never given permission to anyone to hunt on that land, noting that as a hunter herself, she doesn't hunt on that land.
She adds that the issue has been ongoing for sometime, though Sprado was unable to say whether conservation officers have been called to the property before.

[huntcoop]

If the alleged poachers were Caucasian what would the COS and RCMP have done?

Restorative justice?

[IronNoggin]

Given the recent incidences in Manitoba, Alberta, and now BC I can't help but wonder whether these are coincidence or not...

Is is possible that those involved are "testing the waters" to see just how far the matter can be pushed?

Am I giving them far too much credit, or does the possibility strike a chord with anyone else?

Wondering...
Nog

[358mag]

If the alleged poachers were Caucasian what would the COS and RCMP have done?

Restorative justice?
Sure there would have been a bit different outcome for sure .

[Bonz]

since when??? without a licence and tags


Sprado says First Nations people have the right under the Indian Act to hunt on Crown lands for food or ceremonial purposes

[Bonz]

Given the recent incidences in Manitoba, Alberta, and now BC I can't help but wonder whether these are coincidence or not...

Is is possible that those involved are "testing the waters" to see just how far the matter can be pushed?

Am I giving them far too much credit, or does the possibility strike a chord with anyone else?

Wondering...
Nog

been thinking that for a while actualy.

[.308SLAYER]

There is always gonna be those people that try to push their luck too far. Hope fully for these individuals they get some trespassing fines at the very least. Unless one of the individuals in question did not have a PAL and was not seen shooting from the truck then I highly doubt there.will b any firearm related offences.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Wasn't that within the city no shooting boundary?

[savagecanuck]

I say let the Penticton Indian Band deal with it if it's their own members. As its a black eye for all of them. Should not get away with hunting on someones private land.

[tinhorse]

The only reason I would ever buy a chunk of land would be to know for certain that I was the only one allowed to hunt on it. If these clowns don't get the book thrown at then then what's the f***** point of owning land.... complete bullshit trespassing and hunting on someone's property

[willyqbc]

Given the recent incidences in Manitoba, Alberta, and now BC I can't help but wonder whether these are coincidence or not...

Is is possible that those involved are "testing the waters" to see just how far the matter can be pushed?

Am I giving them far too much credit, or does the possibility strike a chord with anyone else?

Wondering...
Nog

Totally agree.....and this is really the crux of the problem and peoples frustration with "why do the fn's keep getting away with stuff like this?"
To me it is quite clear that authorities/govt are afraid to prosecute FN's for stuff like this for fear the court ruling will not go their way. If these guys are prosecuted for trespassing while hunting.... there are many levels of appeal. They get the right lawyer and right judge at some level of appeal and lets say the conviction is overturned.....can you imagine the result of that??? Suddenly you have legal precedent that FN's have the "legal" right to trespass for the purpose of hunting. could only result in widespread violent confrontations. I do believe there are FN's out there that break laws like these on purpose hoping they will be prosecuted so they can take their shot in court at getting these behaviors legitimized by law. If i'm not mistaken, wasn't it a court ruling that legitimized spotlighting??
I don't know what the answer is....the authorities and govt are between a rock and a hard place....it could potentially be extremely risky with huge wide ranging ramifications to try and prosecute a case like this. You better be POSITIVE you will not only win, but that it will hold up through all levels of appeal to go after this.

Sad state of affairs
Chris

[Bonz]

more on this. video with statements and conservation

http://globalnews.ca/news/3214496/cow-elk-shot-resident-says-aboriginal-hunters-were-trespassing/

[Steeleco]

This topic was closed on the other thread as some of you know. If this goes even a little sideways it will too. I don't know the answer to this issue/problem but I don know the rules set out by the site's owner Marc!!

For the record, I think these people should be charged under the wildlife act. With no regard to race!

[Bonz]

im getting fed up of the same derailing on threads to. take your personal garbage to pm please. makes us all look stupid

[Dannybuoy]

I say let the Penticton Indian Band deal with it if it's their own members. As its a black eye for all of them. Should not get away with hunting on someones private land.

You don't know the leadership of the Penticton Indian band is all I will say ...

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The lady who owns the property told Kelly Hayes (Global BC reporter) that she hunts and doesn't even hunt her own property.

[HarryToolips]

For the record, I think these people should be charged under the wildlife act. With no regard to race!
I agree.....

[HarryToolips]

Totally agree.....and this is really the crux of the problem and peoples frustration with "why do the fn's keep getting away with stuff like this?"
To me it is quite clear that authorities/govt are afraid to prosecute FN's for stuff like this for fear the court ruling will not go their way. If these guys are prosecuted for trespassing while hunting.... there are many levels of appeal. They get the right lawyer and right judge at some level of appeal and lets say the conviction is overturned.....can you imagine the result of that??? Suddenly you have legal precedent that FN's have the "legal" right to trespass for the purpose of hunting. could only result in widespread violent confrontations. I do believe there are FN's out there that break laws like these on purpose hoping they will be prosecuted so they can take their shot in court at getting these behaviors legitimized by law. If i'm not mistaken, wasn't it a court ruling that legitimized spotlighting??
I don't know what the answer is....the authorities and govt are between a rock and a hard place....it could potentially be extremely risky with huge wide ranging ramifications to try and prosecute a case like this. You better be POSITIVE you will not only win, but that it will hold up through all levels of appeal to go after this.

Sad state of affairs
Chris
You have some very valid points...if this does get overturned, we as hunters and conservationists, need to create public outcry with letters to the editor etc..getting them to be published may be difficult, but we need to do something..

[Bonz]

keep seeing the general public doing petitions against us and other. just posted one for them cougars c.o. had to put down
so when does the hunter do one to stop this native crap?.
ill start one and spam the crap out of it everywhere. tired of just sitting in these forums or groups getting ma at it and do nothing
anyone with ideas on what to use for this pm them to me maybe, so many issues in this it cant be all over the place. not the best at getting the thoughts down on paper so any suggestions are welcome.

or am i wasting my time. people rather just sit and be mad?

[willyqbc]

You have some very valid points...if this does get overturned, we as hunters and conservationists, need to create public outcry with letters to the editor etc..getting them to be published may be difficult, but we need to do something..

Unfortunately, public outcry after the fact is not going to have any effect on the ruling. can't ever recall a judicial ruling being reversed due to public sentiment after the fact. The ruling in effect would be new law. By their very nature our courts are supposed to objectively interpret the law regardless of public/political opinion. If a really smart lawyer can find historical treaty language that can be persuasively argued and interpreted to mean hunting on anothers land is fine....sooner or later some court will agree. The FN's can lose fights like these 100 times.....they only have to win it once.
We do need to make our feelings well known to the powers that be, but our "opinions" will not have any effect on court rulings...nor should they, our courts need to be stand alone entities, objective and unswayed by political/public pressure.
The only way out I can see would bankrupt the country as you would have to offer enough money to get FN's to sell back their treaty rights....essentially "buy" new treaties that would supercede the old, fully and legally...and the price tag on that?? I cant even imagine.

Just my opinion
Chris

[358mag]

Wasn't that within the city no shooting boundary?
No out of city limits-no shooting boundary .

[vortex hunter]

on private property also and co's still let them keep the meat BS

[vortex hunter]

im getting fed up of the same derailing on threads to. take your personal garbage to pm please. makes us all look stupid

why that Bonz it just the truth

[358mag]

You don't know the leadership of the Penticton Indian band is all I will say ...
No kidding , flaming the waters so to say .

[Islandeer]

We are well beyond pushing the envelope here,it has been fully breached.

[Islandeer]

Killing a pregnant animal on private land, why hasn't this landed on Global's news desk? Maybe a little satellite debris perhaps, it would also fit nicely on crime stoppers.

[wideopenthrottle]

Unfortunately, public outcry after the fact is not going to have any effect on the ruling. can't ever recall a judicial ruling being reversed due to public sentiment after the fact. The ruling in effect would be new law. By their very nature our courts are supposed to objectively interpret the law regardless of public/political opinion. If a really smart lawyer can find historical treaty language that can be persuasively argued and interpreted to mean hunting on anothers land is fine....sooner or later some court will agree. The FN's can lose fights like these 100 times.....they only have to win it once.
We do need to make our feelings well known to the powers that be, but our "opinions" will not have any effect on court rulings...nor should they, our courts need to be stand alone entities, objective and unswayed by political/public pressure.
The only way out I can see would bankrupt the country as you would have to offer enough money to get FN's to sell back their treaty rights....essentially "buy" new treaties that would supercede the old, fully and legally...and the price tag on that?? I cant even imagine.

Just my opinion
Chris

some one should ask an elder what they used to do to other tribes that hunted on their land......I recall someone mentioning a native friend telling them about another tribe that used to live in the area but they no longer exist "because they were not good fighters ... we killed them all"

[rocksteady]

Interesting reading the comments on the bottom of the Global story....

Won't go any further than recommending that, as I may get banned...

[Piperdown]

Complete bullsh*t, guilty of trespass, hunting without permission on private lands and by the looks of the rd, you would need to be 15 meters from the center line and i would say they don't have that distance so yes a fire arms offence, but we can all wait for Jassmine to tell us if we are right or wrong, because i am an uneducated fool :wink:

[vortex hunter]

It's just something will all have to live with and try to let go cause our opinion are like butt holes we all got one ..... I'm done with this subject

[Bonz]

^^^, kinda why it keeps on happening also. like the one lady in the comments...dont like it, then move...lol.

[IronNoggin]

... To me it is quite clear that authorities/govt are afraid to prosecute FN's for stuff like this for fear the court ruling will not go their way. If these guys are prosecuted for trespassing while hunting.... there are many levels of appeal. They get the right lawyer and right judge at some level of appeal and lets say the conviction is overturned.....can you imagine the result of that??? Suddenly you have legal precedent that FN's have the "legal" right to trespass for the purpose of hunting. could only result in widespread violent confrontations. I do believe there are FN's out there that break laws like these on purpose hoping they will be prosecuted so they can take their shot in court at getting these behaviors legitimized by law. If i'm not mistaken, wasn't it a court ruling that legitimized spotlighting??

That's more or less what I was getting at back on page one of this thread.
As in the case of jacklighting, all it took was a test case, quite perhaps perpetrated to test the legal system, and now we face the disastrous results the misguided SCC handed over - "legitimate" (barf) jacklighting... :evil:


... The FN's can lose fights like these 100 times.....they only have to win it once...

Precisely. And I honestly do think there is an effort towards "legitimizing" every and anything they can dream up...

In this case, the overlying concern (that being Conservation) was blatantly ignored. There is NO open season for cows, nor any antlerless elk LEH tags issued in the area - for a reason. The herd simply cannot withstand the removal of cows, especially those of breeding age (and that are pregnant to boot). That, alone, should constitute the basis for charging the perpetrators forthwith.

The fact that they conducted this travesty on Private, Posted Land (basically shooting right overtop of the No Hunting sign) is a direct violation of the Wildlife Act. And they KNEW that at the time, which goes to show premeditation.

While I very much DO understand the points being made by Willy (and share them all), methinks in this particular case there isn't a lot of "wiggle room" for denying the fact they are at minimum Guilty of the two offenses noted above.

Charge them. There is moire than sufficient grounds and reason.

Nog

[358mag]

Totally agree.....and this is really the crux of the problem and peoples frustration with "why do the fn's keep getting away with stuff like this?"
To me it is quite clear that authorities/govt are afraid to prosecute FN's for stuff like this for fear the court ruling will not go their way. If these guys are prosecuted for trespassing while hunting.... there are many levels of appeal. They get the right lawyer and right judge at some level of appeal and lets say the conviction is overturned.....can you imagine the result of that??? Suddenly you have legal precedent that FN's have the "legal" right to trespass for the purpose of hunting. could only result in widespread violent confrontations. I do believe there are FN's out there that break laws like these on purpose hoping they will be prosecuted so they can take their shot in court at getting these behaviors legitimized by law. If i'm not mistaken, wasn't it a court ruling that legitimized spotlighting??
I don't know what the answer is....the authorities and govt are between a rock and a hard place....it could potentially be extremely risky with huge wide ranging ramifications to try and prosecute a case like this. You better be POSITIVE you will not only win, but that it will hold up through all levels of appeal to go after this.

Sad state of affairs
Chris
So true and you know dam well that <POS>Grand Chief Stewart Phillips < who was also the chief of the PIB for many years > is just waiting for charges to be laid. He will be standing up on his soap box fighting the charges all the way to the supreme court using our tax $$ and lawyers to win .
Yes very sad state of affairs for sure .

[willyqbc]

While I very much DO understand the points being made by Willy (and share them all), methinks in this particular case there isn't a lot of "wiggle room" for denying the fact they are at minimum Guilty of the two offenses noted above.

Charge them. There is moire than sufficient grounds and reason.


History has shown that wildlife offences in regards to FN's are a battle we cant win in the courts....they could shoot a whole herd of pregnant cows and never be charged with something that will stick.
As sick as it makes me, i believe the best we can do here is "ignore" the wildlife offences and charge them simply with trespassing. Do not muddy the waters in the courts by making the charges even remotely related to "hunting". If we make the "hunting" and the trespassing related and basically one activity we dramatically increase the chances of giving them what they want. Ignore the "hunting" and make it irrelevant, the charges before the court should be trespass alone.

Some crappy fine for trespassing is very small consolation for what was done here, but I honestly cant see anything else here that will stick.

It sickens me that we are in this position.....it seems like trying to take a legal stand could be disastrous, doing nothing...also disastrous. The vigilante approach is not an option unless a huge number of us are willing to go to jail for it.......so where the hell does that leave us???

Again...just my opinion
Chris

[Xenomorph]

History has shown that wildlife offences in regards to FN's are a battle we cant win in the courts....they could shoot a whole herd of pregnant cows and never be charged with something that will stick.
As sick as it makes me, i believe the best we can do here is "ignore" the wildlife offences and charge them simply with trespassing. Do not muddy the waters in the courts by making the charges even remotely related to "hunting". If we make the "hunting" and the trespassing related and basically one activity we dramatically increase the chances of giving them what they want. Ignore the "hunting" and make it irrelevant, the charges before the court should be trespass alone.

Some crappy fine for trespassing is very small consolation for what was done here, but I honestly cant see anything else here that will stick.

It sickens me that we are in this position.....it seems like trying to take a legal stand could be disastrous, doing nothing...also disastrous. The vigilante approach is not an option unless a huge number of us are willing to go to jail for it.......so where the hell does that leave us???

Again...just my opinion
Chris

While I agree it's a difficult road to follow, I cannot concur that it should be left alone. Both RH and FN are utilizing the same resource, which if not protected it will disappear. You don't need to make an argument on right, but on responsibility. One could even as a private person just sue them in small claims for the maximum admissible of 25k. I wonder how many of those claims would they be able to endure. It's a civil prejudice to us all users of the same resource, it doesn't belong solely to a group.

While I believe strongly our legal system is fundamentally flawed on this, I wonder how the future will look. I know how I'd react if my private property was trespassed.

[savagecanuck]

Trespassing fine is about $128 ,I got one 2 years ago.

[Xenomorph]

Responsibility, not blind ignorance and disregard to not only a resource, but to the inviolable property right. If it's OK for them to do this, should it be OK for us to start conquering, because that's our ancestors did?!?

I know, I'm pushing it, but for a good reason, we need to all sit at the same table and have at the coolaid.

[Xenomorph]

Trespassing fine is about $128 ,I got one 2 years ago.

If the owner presses charges it can end up in much more, punitive damages, restraining orders. It will be ugly.

[wideopenthrottle]

History has shown that wildlife offences in regards to FN's are a battle we cant win in the courts....they could shoot a whole herd of pregnant cows and never be charged with something that will stick.
As sick as it makes me, i believe the best we can do here is "ignore" the wildlife offences and charge them simply with trespassing. Do not muddy the waters in the courts by making the charges even remotely related to "hunting". If we make the "hunting" and the trespassing related and basically one activity we dramatically increase the chances of giving them what they want. Ignore the "hunting" and make it irrelevant, the charges before the court should be trespass alone.

Some crappy fine for trespassing is very small consolation for what was done here, but I honestly cant see anything else here that will stick.

It sickens me that we are in this position.....it seems like trying to take a legal stand could be disastrous, doing nothing...also disastrous. The vigilante approach is not an option unless a huge number of us are willing to go to jail for it.......so where the hell does that leave us???

Again...just my opinion
Chris

as you say...dont charge them with any criminal offences...stick to strick liability stuff and write them the biggest ticket a CO or Cop can pull out of his book right on the spot...as a provincial debt could it be used to prevent them from renewing insurance or drivers licence perhaps?

[.300WSMImpact!]

If the owner presses charges it can end up in much more, punitive damages, restraining orders. It will be ugly.

my cousin pressed charges in a case like this a few years ago, since then his cows have been killed off a little at a time

[Ohwildwon]

Well, as we all know, there is only one significant thing we CAN do...

A peaceful in your face protest with signs...

Not unlike our protest with allocation, perhaps we could constructively open up some dialog?

Along with the public shaming and perhaps some media exposure, we could start to turn public attention to political attention?

Although, with whats happening south of the border, probably best wait until things, calm down, or, another case of this happening...

[Xenomorph]

my cousin pressed charges in a case like this a few years ago, since then his cows have been killed off a little at a time


I'm sorry to hear that. All it takes is tag the culprits once, then he can go after the whole prejudice. I'd invest in some sort of ...let's talk offline.

[Xenomorph]

Well, as we all know, there is only one significant thing we CAN do...

A peaceful in your face protest with signs...

Not unlike our protest with allocation, perhaps we could constructively open up some dialog?

Along with the public shaming and perhaps some media exposure, we could start to turn public attention to political attention?

Although with whats happening south of the border, probably best wait until things calm down/another case of this happening...

I like this a lot.

[wideopenthrottle]

Well, as we all know, there is only one significant thing we CAN do...

A peaceful in your face protest with signs...

Not unlike our protest with allocation, perhaps we could constructively open up some dialog?

Along with the public shaming and perhaps some media exposure, we could start to turn public attention to political attention?

Although, with whats happening south of the border, probably best wait until things, calm down, or, another case of this happening...

that is a very important point....the court of public opinion (aka mass ignorance) is in their favour such that they can do no wrong...only the best prosecutors in the country would have a chance with getting a criminal ruling against these poachers...the fetus in the gut pile is a powerful image to the masses...I would donate to a publicity campaign that involves "educating" the public to the atrocious acts against wildlife being committed.

there are a lot of people that care more about "helpless wildlife" than people ....how many average people could look at that fetus in the gut pile and say " I don't think those native guys did anything wrong"....

that pic is worth more than a million words

[Linksman313]

Criminal trespass and Shooting from a roadway (close to house?) should constitute at least a hefty fine and firearms forfeiture?

[crazy ducker]

Well, as we all know, there is only one significant thing we CAN do...

A peaceful in your face protest with signs...

Not unlike our protest with allocation, perhaps we could constructively open up some dialog?

Along with the public shaming and perhaps some media exposure, we could start to turn public attention to political attention?

Although, with whats happening south of the border, probably best wait until things, calm down, or, another case of this happening...

Maybe start banging those annoying drums like every protest that happens in Vancouver

[wideopenthrottle]

I think anti hunters' brains would explode if they saw an organized rally of hunters carrying signs with the picture of the fetus in the gut pile railing against the practice "stop poachers and abusers of wildlife no matter their race"

[Bonz]

i threw the pic of that on a few making rediculous statements on some of the news articles...sure shut everyone down in a hurry from further comments.
i just posted it and asked to explain how that helps the elk population at all? and i ask to be shown from their rights where they can shoot protected species in that area....no gos for cow calf in the area, so thats illegal also

[wideopenthrottle]

great work bonz

[Bugle M In]

i threw the pic of that on a few making rediculous statements on some of the news articles...sure shut everyone down in a hurry from further comments.
i just posted it and asked to explain how that helps the elk population at all? and i ask to be shown from their rights where they can shoot protected species in that area....no gos for cow calf in the area, so thats illegal also

good on you

[Wolfman]

savagecanuck, I agree. This is bad all around for relations with local First Nations if indeed it is members of their community doing the shooting.

[IronNoggin]

... been thinking that for a while actually.

Apparently so have some of them...

Incidences like the one noted below may in fact be driving some aspect of these actions, in other words, a test of the current system:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/amc-mulls-legal-challenge-on-hunting-on-private-land-401060085.html

"The Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs is considering a legal challenge to laws that prevent aboriginal people from hunting on private land, just as Manitoba landowners are seeking greater enforcement against hunters."

Although the article focused on Manitoba & Saskatchewan, the matters being discussed are very much reflective of the situation in BC...

The plot thickens...
Nog

[Bugle M In]

Apparently so have some of them...

Incidences like the one noted below may in fact be driving some aspect of these actions, in other words, a test of the current system:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/amc-mulls-legal-challenge-on-hunting-on-private-land-401060085.html

"The Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs is considering a legal challenge to laws that prevent aboriginal people from hunting on private land, just as Manitoba landowners are seeking greater enforcement against hunters."

Although the article focused on Manitoba & Saskatchewan, the matters being discussed are very much reflective of the situation in BC...

The plot thickens...
Nog


Maybe we should be asking for "Texan Rules", shoot 1st, ask questions later.
You know, just protecting my property and safety to family.
"Hell officer, some guy comes over my fence carrying a gun, on to my private property, thought my family was in jeopardy"!

[358mag]

Maybe we should be asking for "Texan Rules", shoot 1st, ask questions later.
You know, just protecting my property and safety to family.
"Hell officer, some guy comes over my fence carrying a gun, on to my private property, thought my family was in jeopardy"!
Hate see that but it just might be coming to that .

[Bugle M In]

Hate see that but it just might be coming to that .

I agree...It should NOT come to that.
Reading this thread and seeing that FN do not want to "respect private property"....
Than I ask....
"Why the Hell are we paying them any longer"
This whole SHIT with the FN has got to come to a Grinding Halt! and Quick.

Maybe a "Trump" like character may run for leader of Canada:roll: one day....
Imagine how that would be panning out right now...

No more paying my Tax Dollars to FN....they can stand on their own 2 feet....
I guess I ask..."when does a man become a man"....if he keeps holding his hand out for money.

[Xenomorph]

I agree...It should NOT come to that.
Reading this thread and seeing that FN do not want to "respect private property"....
Than I ask....
"Why the Hell are we paying them any longer"
This whole SHIT with the FN has got to come to a Grinding Halt! and Quick.

Maybe a "Trump" like character may run for leader of Canada:roll: one day....
Imagine how that would be panning out right now...

No more paying my Tax Dollars to FN....they can stand on their own 2 feet....
I guess I ask..."when does a man become a man"....if he keeps holding his hand out for money.


I've read some of the comments in that thread on global and I had to shake my head. Some are smoking something that is not a peace pipe, and I fear the day the "white man" reverts back to some ****ed up medieval crap, just because our ancestors did it. Some of the arguments made are beyond puerile, "pack up and go home", "aboriginals been here for 250000 years" - :mrgreen: that actually made me laugh quite a bit.

In all honesty, it's the lack of integration, we need more efforts on both sides to eliminate this, or it will end up bad.

[Dannybuoy]

Hate see that but it just might be coming to that .

Yup , it could get ugly , I saw the "chief " stocking up a few years ago ... ( crates of sks's and ammo)

[rocksteady]

I've read some of the comments in that thread on global and I had to shake my head. Some are smoking something that is not a peace pipe, and I fear the day the "white man" reverts back to some ****ed up medieval crap, just because our ancestors did it. Some of the arguments made are beyond puerile, "pack up and go home", "aboriginals been here for 250000 years" - :mrgreen: that actually made me laugh quite a bit.

In all honesty, it's the lack of integration, we need more efforts on both sides to eliminate this, or it will end up bad.

Agreed just did not want to it cause I would go over the top and get banned.

How many centuries til bygones are bygones???

K... gonna shut up now. Getting mad.

[Piperdown]

So i called the CO buddy up where we have the cabin I gave him the skinny on what happened in Penticton, he said pretty simple, trespass, poaching, guilty!!! Then he tells me the fine folks up there shot 7 cow moose last week alone, he said he can't believe what he sees yet in these cases his hands are tied. Pretty sad state of affairs and i can't see things getting any better :(

[Glassman]

Are we not all supposed to be treated equally? Why are some races of people more equal than others. If he can do it then I should be able to as well. If I can't, then he can't.

[leftfield]

I just hope he/they are keeping notes. Not just on one group but on all so we can have an objective opinion to discuss. It's hard to argue photos and facts.


So i called the CO buddy up where we have the cabin I gave him the skinny on what happened in Penticton, he said pretty simple, trespass, poaching, guilty!!! Then he tells me the fine folks up there shot 7 cow moose last week alone, he said he can't believe what he sees yet in these cases his hands are tied. Pretty sad state of affairs and i can't see things getting any better :(

[Darksith]

Totally agree.....and this is really the crux of the problem and peoples frustration with "why do the fn's keep getting away with stuff like this?"
To me it is quite clear that authorities/govt are afraid to prosecute FN's for stuff like this for fear the court ruling will not go their way. If these guys are prosecuted for trespassing while hunting.... there are many levels of appeal. They get the right lawyer and right judge at some level of appeal and lets say the conviction is overturned.....can you imagine the result of that??? Suddenly you have legal precedent that FN's have the "legal" right to trespass for the purpose of hunting. could only result in widespread violent confrontations. I do believe there are FN's out there that break laws like these on purpose hoping they will be prosecuted so they can take their shot in court at getting these behaviors legitimized by law. If i'm not mistaken, wasn't it a court ruling that legitimized spotlighting??
I don't know what the answer is....the authorities and govt are between a rock and a hard place....it could potentially be extremely risky with huge wide ranging ramifications to try and prosecute a case like this. You better be POSITIVE you will not only win, but that it will hold up through all levels of appeal to go after this.

Sad state of affairs
Chris

yes but without enforcement they have the right to do it anyway then

[Bonz]

So i called the CO buddy up where we have the cabin I gave him the skinny on what happened in Penticton, he said pretty simple, trespass, poaching, guilty!!! Then he tells me the fine folks up there shot 7 cow moose last week alone, he said he can't believe what he sees yet in these cases his hands are tied. Pretty sad state of affairs and i can't see things getting any better :(

even if some peoples hands are tied, pics always help sway public opinion..lol

[willyqbc]

yes but without enforcement they have the right to do it anyway then

I hear ya...like i said, rock and a hard place. I think that as long as there is a "line" there will be those out there unwilling to cross it, my fear is an unsucsessful prosecution would remove that "line" that is currently acting as a barrier to some people. If the result of a court case renders this sort of behavior officially legal....it will be way more than the brazen and militant doing it. Basically is it better to have 10% of FN's doing this or 50%? Sometimes in a no win situation, limiting the damage is the best we can do....no matter how distasteful that may seem.

Chris

[338win mag]

If Stewart Phillip supports this trespassing then he should be the first to jump a landowners fence with rifle in hand to lead the charge, he wont though, he's not stupid but he knows enough stupid people that will jump a fence.
I dont know why FN are taking this avenue of approach, they have to live in the very communities with the same people whom they trespass, its not going to work out to good for them.

[358mag]

Penticton woman wants legal action after elk hunted on private land By Shelby thom Global Newsw



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A frustrated Victoria Kryzanowski is demanding charges be laid after two cow elk were shot and killed on her private property on Greyback Mountain Road Sunday morning.
“There were three gentleman, they were out there processing the meat,” said Kryzanowski. “They did not have permission, no permission has been given to anybody to hunt here.”
She said “no hunting” signs are clearly visible along the property line and hunting in the area puts people’s safety at risk.
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https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/themes/vip/shaw-globalnews/_img/social-impulse/small/alerts/alerts.gif (http://globalnews.ca/pages/email-alerts/) “They are shooting, there are residences nearby, who knows who is walking where, shots are fired, what way are they going”? questioned Kryzanowski.
The hunters are members of the Penticton Indian Band.
READ MORE: Cow elk shot (http://globalnews.ca/news/3214496/cow-elk-shot-resident-says-aboriginal-hunters-were-trespassing/)
Conservation officers say unlike non-native hunters, aboriginals can hunt without bag limits or seasonal restrictions.

“First Nations people can hunt wildlife year-round for traditional, ceremonial, or sustenance purposes,” said Toby Sprado, Conservation Officer.
But First Nation hunting rights don’t include harvesting on private property without permission from the land owner.
“We would be looking at non-compliances under the Wildlife Act, Trespass Act and possibly the Firearms Act if there are any safety issues related to the incident,” added Sprado.
The Penticton Indian Band says it’s also investigating.
“We want to make sure that our protocols around harvesting and access are recognized by those people living in Syilx territory. This may include an education process and dialogue with residents, experts and officials which brings clarity and understanding to our shared relationship,” said Chief Chad Eneas in a statement issued to Global Okanagan News.
But Kryzanowski maintains the hunters should be prosecuted.
“It’s necessary because you know what, everybody figures they can just go do it and it’s washed under the carpet,” she said.
It’s not known if charges will be laid.
© 2017 Global News, a division

[tuner]

There will be no risk of reoffending by these folks after they are hammered with the full brunt of "Restorative justice" handed out by the penticton Indian band. The sentence will probably involve community hours manning
road blocks on Apex Road,as well as the mandatory drum circle or worse, the dreaded half hour in the sweat lodge! :shock:

[Piperdown]

Tuner you missed out a little smoke smudge too!

[Lionhill]

I'd like to hear from the BCWF on this.

Have the been approached by media to comment on this?

Does their newly acquired seat at the table with the ONA and their participation in "Cooperative Protocol between Okanagan Region BCWF and the Okanagan Nation Alliance" buy them any influence in this situations and future "interactions"?

LH

[Bonz]

i see thier actualy is a new elk anterless draw in this area. not sure how they work with draws. thought they still had to do that if the species, or sex is under draw hunt only..how do they get 3 draws, 2 cow and 1 calf?...lol
10 total for the area

[Bonz]

id have figured bcwf would have been all over this talking to media an explaining this

[303savage]

two elk were allegedly killed and harvested on private property.
The elk were shot on private property, where does the word allegedly come in? :-)

[358mag]

The elk were shot on private property, where does the word allegedly come in? :-)

Political correctness ,innocent until proven guilty. The world we live in .:roll::roll:

[GoatGuy]

id have figured bcwf would have been all over this talking to media an explaining this


That happened, media didn't include any of it.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

That happened, media didn't include any of it.

Thats weird as I saw you in a clip talking about the upcoming story before the commercial break but nothing when the story aired.

[Lionhill]

That happened, media didn't include any of it.

What was the message from BCWF?

[Walksalot]

If the people who shot the elk are not charged and convicted be prepared for animals going down on private land posted or not. It will set a precedent for future cases regarding native rights to hunt on private land. The fact they were able to keep the animals speaks volumes to this issue.

[GoatGuy]

If the people who shot the elk are not charged and convicted be prepared for animals going down on private land posted or not. It will set a precedent for future cases regarding native rights to hunt on private land. The fact they were able to keep the animals speaks volumes to this issue.



They are being charged.

[358mag]

They are being charged.

Great news .
Can hardly wait to hear grand chief stewart phillip racist comments on it .

[chris]

I don't really know how charges work. Have these guys been giving court dates already? Does anyone have any idea when we can expect to see a conclusion to this?

[bonecolecter]

everyone treated the same!!!!problem solved no ones spetall, no one should get away with what bands are,its heading for a showdown,and thay just keep pushing a pushing!thay hunt elk here on the island prityneer year round,dot contribute!take elk in the dark?take them in the parks?these iv seen with my own eyes,back in the days before our government rolled over AGAIN!!!!! and gave them the right to off elk without a draw???like everyone!drawing a line and making them......SPECIAL!!!and giving!!! away our(paying residents who transplanted elk to the ISLAND!!)opertunitys, to take elk in a normal season,not affecting there numbers.we used to drive out and loch elk now u go anywhere and u are lucky to see them running away.use stand around and woch, i feel very strongly that the line is being drown, by ass kissing governments,and the bands that abuse these opertunitys

[338win mag]

So they are going to be charged, that means that they may lose or.....they may win, a win or loss will likely result in an appeal by either side and it could be before the courts for a long time, possibly 10 years.

It could be something contrived by 1st nations and government, as both sides know this is how laws are made in Canada regarding indigenous peoples, this allows the courts to make the decision, leaving government squeeky clean.
If it is over in short order it was contrived by the 2 parties mentioned, if the provincial government does not appeal a loss, it was contrived.

I wouldn't be surprised if it results in a victory for 1st nations, regardless of common sense. Just like the rulings on pit-lamping for example......

[Walking Buffalo]

They are being charged.

With what?

Could be a new round of public outrage when this information is released.

[tinhorse]

If they go to court and win and First Nations are then legally allowed to hunt on others Private Land, It is no longer considered private land.....If the government wants to ease the battle, they better not let these poachers go free.

So they are going to be charged, that means that they may lose or.....they may win, a win or loss will likely result in an appeal by either side and it could be before the courts for a long time, possibly 10 years.

It could be something contrived by 1st nations and government, as both sides know this is how laws are made in Canada regarding indigenous peoples, this allows the courts to make the decision, leaving government squeeky clean.
If it is over in short order it was contrived by the 2 parties mentioned, if the provincial government does not appeal a loss, it was contrived.

I wouldn't be surprised if it results in a victory for 1st nations, regardless of common sense. Just like the rulings on pit-lamping for example......

[338win mag]

I think IIRC there were/are court rulings pertaining to hunting on private land out in the prairie provinces, much of the land is private until you get to the provincial forest area of northern saskatchewan,,,, when 99.99% of the land in BC is crown land I fail to see the need to hunt private land without permission. Theres going to be trouble, the result of throwing common sense out the window, public safety is no longer a concern it would seem.

[IronNoggin]

They are being charged.

Have a link or anything of that nature to share??

Wondering...
Nog

[GoatGuy]

Have a link or anything of that nature to share??

Wondering...
Nog


unlikely for a while.....

[bonecolecter]

even if some peoples hands are tied, pics always help sway public opinion..lol
here after the natives got there quota of frickin elk, i can go by it on the res along with sockeye and halibut lol this discustion is nasty, I'm getting angry now,

[bonecolecter]

can charge a native, but he will never get convicted,its his right to take what he wants?wen he wants it,and sell it to us????what happened to laws?thay sell fish every year everyone knows it??nuthing happens, lord nos last thing we need is a road block??? coward politions

[bownut]

This is nothing compared to the exclusive they will get on that park down south, resident hunters will be the trespassers then.

[HarryToolips]

I think IIRC there were/are court rulings pertaining to hunting on private land out in the prairie provinces, much of the land is private until you get to the provincial forest area of northern saskatchewan,,,, when 99.99% of the land in BC is crown land I fail to see the need to hunt private land without permission. Theres going to be trouble, the result of throwing common sense out the window, public safety is no longer a concern it would seem.
That's right...if the First Nations win on this, then they can shoot whatever they want on PRIVATE land, that is not only just plain wrong, but unsafe, just like pit-lamping at night...

[bonecolecter]

So they are going to be charged, that means that they may lose or.....they may win, a win or loss will likely result in an appeal by either side and it could be before the courts for a long time, possibly 10 years.

It could be something contrived by 1st nations and government, as both sides know this is how laws are made in Canada regarding indigenous peoples, this allows the courts to make the decision, leaving government squeeky clean.
If it is over in short order it was contrived by the 2 parties mentioned, if the provincial government does not appeal a loss, it was contrived.

I wouldn't be surprised if it results in a victory for 1st nations, regardless of common sense. Just like the rulings on pit-lamping for example......
you talk like u never herd of deals or making things disappear?like u almost believe its cut and dried?nuthing is if u have $$ or threats of rd blocks or no the right people

[bonecolecter]

I think IIRC there were/are court rulings pertaining to hunting on private land out in the prairie provinces, much of the land is private until you get to the provincial forest area of northern saskatchewan,,,, when 99.99% of the land in BC is crown land I fail to see the need to hunt private land without permission. Theres going to be trouble, the result of throwing common sense out the window, public safety is no longer a concern it would seem.
well 338,some animals don't live were we are allowed to hunt,so therefore the peeps that be feelin.....special..?lol shoot were thay see them(private)

[338win mag]

I'm sorry bonecolecter, I cant understand anything you say, nor get the jist of what you are trying to say.

[somethingnuw]

been thinking that for a while actualy.
Yup me too

[bownut]

This reminds me of the time years back when I was a director working on trying to get the FN to try and collect harvest numbers from their members. After many meeting trying to explain how it would aid the ministry with
a accurate harvests counts, the representatives from the band with a smile said " We as a band can make all sorts of requests of our members, but as individuals they have the power to do as they please."
Their hands are tied also. That was the end of those meetings.

[Sitkaspruce]

I'm sorry bonecolecter, I cant understand anything you say, nor get the jist of what you are trying to say.

X2 on pretty well every post that he/she posts.....

11 post/day......a new name for an old poster????

Sorry for derailing the original post!!

Will wait for the all the announcements before making any comments on the OP.

Cheers

SS

[bonecolecter]

sorry guys...?ill try harder,I'm new ta this stuff.lol