Wildlife Branch Survey's

[Cyrus]

what is your take on them? It asks how many days I hunted, area, and what I killed. For this year it is Whitetail and Bear. I got skunked this year but saw bears I passed on but no whitetail bucks. Do they use these to perhaps cut down on harvesting in certain areas if harvesting rates are low?

["No Choke"Lord Walsingham]

No one outside of the MFLNROD decision makers can answer this question for you.

That said, my opinion is that they will shorten seasons/decrease bag limits when Hunter effort is low and kill rates are high and allow longer seasons when the inverse is the case.

I was selected for Wolf and Upland Game Birds/Waterfowl for 2016.

[Fisher-Dude]

what is your take on them? It asks how many days I hunted, area, and what I killed. For this year it is Whitetail and Bear. I got skunked this year but saw bears I passed on but no whitetail bucks. Do they use these to perhaps cut down on harvesting in certain areas if harvesting rates are low?

No, they use these to manage wildlife populations sustainably.

If you're in favour of sustainable wildlife management, fill out the survey.

[TARCHER]

No, they use these to manage wildlife populations sustainably.

If you're in favour of sustainable wildlife management, fill out the survey. I agree. Fill them out honestly

["No Choke"Lord Walsingham]

I agree. Fill them out honestly


+1!

For one, I would never remotely consider lying on a form to manipulate management.

[Wild one]

I fill them out but this is one of the few years I got species outside of small game I actually hunted

[Gateholio]

I always laugh at the conspiracy theory hunters who dream up all reasons why the surveys are evil. :)

[rocksteady]

I always laugh at the conspiracy theory hunters who dream up all reasons why the surveys are evil. :)



Best one I heard is if you don't fill them out, you will not get LEH successful draws

[Cordillera]

The survey is the only way to track data like hunter effort (days actually spent hunting) and to compare that over long periods of time. For species like mule deer on GOS it's the only estimate of actual harvest. If there is not survey the biologists would need to bring in compulsory inspection for those species.

Fill in the survey as accurately as you can.

[Islandeer]

They are important,do your bit,and don't Trump the truth.

[Bonz]

lets not be like some group that wont help with game management numbers. i always do them.

[wideopenthrottle]

The survey is the only way to track data like hunter effort (days actually spent hunting) and to compare that over long periods of time. For species like mule deer on GOS it's the only estimate of actual harvest. If there is not survey the biologists would need to bring in compulsory inspection for those species.

Fill in the survey as accurately as you can.

I generally don't support random surveys especially from government...Why don't they just get us to fill out total hours hunting every species and all our successful tags when we go online for LEH or to get tags...make it a condition of getting a license... almost zero effort on their part to gather exponentially better data....this way they have actual comprehensive harvest data instead of a sample that may or may not capture the true hunter effort/success...I have had surveys 5 or 6 times and not once have they been for a species I hunted in that year

[Fisher-Dude]

I generally don't support random surveys especially from government...Why don't they just get us to fill out total hours hunting every species and all our successful tags when we go online for LEH or to get tags...make it a condition of getting a license... almost zero effort on their part to gather exponentially better data....this way they have actual comprehensive harvest data instead of a sample that may or may not capture the true hunter effort/success...I have had surveys 5 or 6 times and not once have they been for a species I hunted in that year

The minutia of data is less important than the trends of consistent data gathering, that's why.

Mandatory reporting when you're chosen in the sample? I'm all in favour of that.

[guest]

As said earlier, mandatory reporting of all harvests by all hunters on all game would HELP wildlife managers and Bio's to strengthen or herds. No report, no license next year, simple. Save money on the random mail outs for critters not even hunted, those cant even begin to paint the true picture.

PLUS, Governments making it LAW that All animals harvested by FN be reported, counted and calculated into the mix. If they the FN, are unwilling, that just goes to show you just how eager they are to look into the future for their great grandchildren.

Simple. Just do it.

[Bonz]

isnt there already rule in place of FN suposed to report to the band on harvests? i know they dont but i think their suposed to.
again, lack of enforcing alot of laws we already have is an issue

[TreeStandMan]

As said earlier, mandatory reporting of all harvests by all hunters on all game would HELP wildlife managers and Bio's to strengthen or herds. No report, no license next year, simple. Save money on the random mail outs for critters not even hunted, those cant even begin to paint the true picture.

PLUS, Governments making it LAW that All animals harvested by FN be reported, counted and calculated into the mix. If they the FN, are unwilling, that just goes to show you just how eager they are to look into the future for their great grandchildren.

Simple. Just do it.


Yes! Evidence based management of wildlife will ensure that this resource is sustainable.

[Caribou_lou]

I really think these questionnaires can be so much more than they really are.

I strongly feel every animal should be reported when harvested. All they need to do is set it up online and give you time to complete within 10 days of harvesting. Then there is really no guess work. Just straight facts.

[todbartell]

just filled mine out online

[Fisher-Dude]

just filled mine out online

I hope you included ballistics and load information with it.

[325]

No one outside of the MFLNROD decision makers can answer this question for you.

That said, my opinion is that they will shorten seasons/decrease bag limits when Hunter effort is low and kill rates are high and allow longer seasons when the inverse is the case.

I was selected for Wolf and Upland Game Birds/Waterfowl for 2016.

I think the opposite. Low effort-high harvest rates indicate a robust population.

[Fisher-Dude]

I think the opposite. Low effort-high harvest rates indicate a robust population.

You'd be correct.

[Iron Glove]

Completed mine, might walk it down to the PO tonight.
I really, really don't get the objections that a few folks have ??

[Fisher-Dude]

Completed mine, might walk it down to the PO tonight.
I really, really don't get the objections that a few folks have ??

Why wouldn't you do it online and save the scarce resources of the F&W Branch?

[Iron Glove]

Why wouldn't you do it online and save the scarce resources of the F&W Branch?

Because I was too busy on the computer reading some of the intelligent, thought provoking and inclusive :roll: posts on HBC today.

[Fisher-Dude]

Because I was too busy on the computer reading some of the intelligent, thought provoking and inclusive :roll: posts on HBC today.

Priorities, man. Priorities.

[Iron Glove]

Priorities, man. Priorities.

Well, to be honest ( as we liberals, note small "l" are ) I didn't even think @ the on line option. :oops:
To all my fellow tax payers in BC, my humble apologies and I will now mail Chrissy a stamp to pay for my error.

[IronNoggin]

Done - With NO mailing to The Crunch of any stamps (nor anything else btw)...

Cheers,
Nog

[HarryToolips]

I think the opposite. Low effort-high harvest rates indicate a robust population.
X3.....filled mine out....even though they only ask for certain species, I put down my harvests of the other species anyways, along with my days hunting, don't know if they'll use it or not..

[wideopenthrottle]

got mine in the mail yesterday and for the first time ever they picked the two species I actually hunted....as I have said, this is important info to the people trying to make evidence based decisions....I just wish we had to submit all our kills and time spent getting them so that these decisions were based on more evidence rather than the minimum required to be statistically relevant

[ACE]

Survey ..... lets Premier Christina Clark know how much more RH opportunities she can 'slide over' to the GOABC.
Black stetson and dimples will get you far .....
Do your part for CC ....

[rocksteady]

I just wish we had to submit all our kills

By gathering data from local butchers, does that not provide an insight into harvest numbers? I realize it does not count in people at home butchering, but wondering if they could not make a decent assumption of home butcher types ( +/- 10%) and then add that on to the butchers numbers???

[Bonz]

they may use butcher info as well. im sure theirs multiple sources of their number gathering...i hope anyways...lol

[xcaribooer]

From the included notice page I gather that we can buy our hunting license online this year. I am just wondering how they will police people from printing off multiple copies like many do with the fishing licenses?

[Bonz]

you cant print your tags, they mail them to you. can have s many licence copies as you want, its all about tags this year, and we arent printing them ourselves

[xcaribooer]

you cant print your tags, they mail them to you. can have s many licence copies as you want, its all about tags this year, and we arent printing them ourselves

ahhh makes sense thanks
this will force us to plan ahead better, no more buy your tag Friday after work to go hunting on saturday

[TreeStandMan]

this will force us to plan ahead better, no more buy your tag Friday after work to go hunting on saturday
I understand that you can still buy last minute tags at Service B.C., if you're lucky enough to have one nearby.

[Bonz]

sounds like retailers or gov bc will still have them on hand. its the purchases online that will be mailed.
basicly all the same as it has been, with the addition of being able to buy them online also.

[hoochie]

. For this year it is Whitetail and Bear.

mine only asked about WT, and nothing else.
My wifes' asked about game birds and nothing else.

[hunter1947]

I got one in the mail only regarding an elk hunt for information feedback to the wildlife branch ,,should be how many animals did you hunt and fill out your hunts in the questionnaire
for each animal you hunted or no success..

[Wild one]

Why wouldn't you do it online and save the scarce resources of the F&W Branch?

Be happy he filled it out some get annoyed with computers lol

I do like the principle of your comment though.

[Squamch]

I got wolves and game birds.
I didn't cut grouse tags though so I had to tell them I hunted "lots" and killed "several."
I can't point out on a calendar the days I hunted, so the precise "how many days did you hunt" question is hard to answer properly.

[Ryo]

got mine in the mail yesterday and for the first time ever they picked the two species I actually hunted....as I have said, this is important info to the people trying to make evidence based decisions....I just wish we had to submit all our kills and time spent getting them so that these decisions were based on more evidence rather than the minimum required to be statistically relevant

I totally agree. This might be one benefit of a more streamlined online system. Fill in your survey from 2016 before buying your tags for 2017.

[TreeStandMan]

I filled mine out today. They asked about Moose, Mule Deer and Whitetail Deer--the species I purchased tags for--so it looks like they're already using tag sale data.

[wideopenthrottle]

I filled mine out today. They asked about Moose, Mule Deer and Whitetail Deer--the species I purchased tags for--so it looks like they're already using tag sale data.
they did tell me all about the LEH moose hunt I was drawn for in the survey bu the only other species I was asked about was WT...I also had a mule tag, elk and BB tag but those were not asked about

[Surrey Boy]

My wife got a survey but I didn't. It's gender discrimination!

[adriaticum]

My take on them is that they are not sufficient.
We should have an online reporting system that reports every big game kill.
If you want good data, you have to have good input.

[goatdancer]

My wife got a survey but I didn't. It's gender discrimination!

They probably know that you don't do surveys :tongue:

[adriaticum]

My wife got a survey but I didn't. It's gender discrimination!

Thats because she wears the pants :mrgreen:

[Caribou_lou]

My take on them is that they are not sufficient.
We should have an online reporting system that reports every big game kill.
If you want good data, you have to have good input.

I may sound crazy. But I feel the Ministry doesn't want to have great data on harvests. They like to use their formulas and calculate things to make it seem more confusing than it needs to be. It makes too much sense to have every harvest reported.

[GoatGuy]

The reason the province samples is simply due to costs. There's a pile of science around sampling/response rates etc. Basically it doesn't cost too much to get a good idea, it costs a pile of $ to get great precision. Notice harvest for some species that are sensitive or have low participation are generally placed on compulsory inspection. Not an accident. If you wanted mandatory harvest report under the mail-out system using the TDM you would bankrupt the branch.


If you don't want to participate that's your choice - recognize that detracts from the effectiveness and adds to the costs of wildlife management.


With electronic licensing mandatory harvest reporting is a possibility and we can close the loop.

[adriaticum]

I may sound crazy. But I feel the Ministry doesn't want to have great data on harvests. They like to use their formulas and calculate things to make it seem more confusing than it needs to be. It makes too much sense to have every harvest reported.


I think it's all about dollars and cents and hunters and wildlife are the low on the priority list.

It doesn't cost a whole lot of money to build a process and system of tracking big game reports.

But of course, with government, everything costs 10 times what it should and delivers 20 times less than what it should.

At this point they are just happy they are getting paid again.


I heard BCWF hired a new database manage. Something they haven't had before.
She better get cracking.

[p0stij]

I filled mine out honestly. Elk and WT on mine.

[f350ps]

The reason the province samples is simply due to costs. There's a pile of science around sampling/response rates etc. Basically it doesn't cost too much to get a good idea, it costs a pile of $ to get great precision. Notice harvest for some species that are sensitive or have low participation are generally placed on compulsory inspection. Not an accident. If you wanted mandatory harvest report under the mail-out system using the TDM you would bankrupt the branch.


If you don't want to participate that's your choice - recognize that detracts from the effectiveness and adds to the costs of wildlife management.


With electronic licensing mandatory harvest reporting is a possibility and we can close the loop.
I agree with most of this except for this, I bought tags and hunted for Elk, Moose, Whiteys and Mulies yet my survey was for Whiteys and Mulies, how much more postage would it have cost to include every animal? Just curious! K

[Cordillera]

there is declining value from a higher sample rate; and not every hunter actually wants to fill in the survey. So the province sends out enough surveys to get reliable data, and not more.

They pick who gets the survey randomly. Sometimes you get picked once, sometimes more.

The design of the system is mostly focussed on getting statistically valid data.

[GoatGuy]

I agree with most of this except for this, I bought tags and hunted for Elk, Moose, Whiteys and Mulies yet my survey was for Whiteys and Mulies, how much more postage would it have cost to include every animal? Just curious! K


To send to you it wouldn't have cost much more, but it wouldn't be a random sample, which is an integral part of the design.

[GoatGuy]

Here's a very based/theoretical approach to the simple random sample.

For a population of let's say 100,000 hunters across the province we need a sample of ~383 for a confidence interval of 95% and error of 5% (without stratifying the pop). The method requires an initial survey be sent and two subsequent follow-ups if there is no response.

Generally speaking the rule of thumb is $10/returned survey (it is probably cheaper with BC hunters as the program has been around for a long time and BC's hunters have a higher response rate than other surveys). For the sake of discussion you are looking at around $3830.

You would never get all 100,000 to respond, but let's say you wanted to increase to a confidence interval of 99% and error of 1% you're going to need around 14,300 returned so $143,000. The higher you push the CI and error the more it costs per response. Millions of dollars is not something we have in the bank to spend.


With electronic licensing mandatory reporting is something we could go to if ppl wanted to. You can provide incentives/disincentives to respondents as well to help encourage participation.

[bownut]

Being that we know that our presents system has room for improvement and we are aware of the costs for this data base we have been using, our game managers using this system
feel like they are working with a dull pencil? how cost effective is that?
Maybe now is the time for change before this evolution thats been happening with the modern hunter blows right past this simple data entry program.
As the world best Armchair Biologist I can see the end is near if we don't get a handle on what is really going on out there. Just Saying.

[GoatGuy]

Being that we know that our presents system has room for improvement and we are aware of the costs for this data base we have been using, our game managers using this system
feel like they are working with a dull pencil? how cost effective is that?
Maybe now is the time for change before this evolution thats been happening with the modern hunter blows right past this simple data entry program.
As the world best Armchair Biologist I can see the end is near if we don't get a handle on what is really going on out there. Just Saying.

Reducing the error in harvest reporting for what are predominantly male only seasons will not make more wildlife.

Under the historical constraints the system is the most efficient way of monitoring dead side data and resulting trends. When paired with aerial inventory it simply shows if we are meeting our objectives as they relate to sex ratios.

The trouble with combining our current harvest management and dead side data is it doesn't make more wildlife.

Dealing with things like habitat, predation, road/rail mortality makes more wildlife. Those are the things that sharpen the pencil.

[Fisher-Dude]

My wife got a survey but I didn't. It's gender discrimination!

I thought you'd get one for sure.

[Rupert Retired]

I fill mine out every year and of course the on-line option is so much easier. However, I had always had a problem with their definitions, so I phoned them last year, and asked a few questions. Some of you may be interested:

1. I took 10 days off from work, but only hunted 7 of those days, the other three days were travel, but were definitely related to my hunting trip. So, which number do you want?
Answer - We don't care about travel days, only count the days you hunted.

2. I arrived at camp and after setting up camp, I hunted 2 hours that evening, do I count this?
Answer - Yes, you count every partial day as a day. Do not combine two half days as a day, count this as two days.

3. I hunted moose in an area where there were other species open, and I would have shot them if I had seen them. For instance, I had a black bear tag, a mule deer tag, and a caribou tag, and all these seasons were open, as well as of course wolf. How do you want this recorded?
Answer - If you hunted an area with a legal tag, and the season was open, then you count that as a hunting day for that species. For instance, if your questionnaire asks you the amount of time hunting for black bear, and you had a black bear tag, and the season was open, then all those days that you spent hunting for mule deer and others, etc. are counted as hunting for black bear as well.

Hope this helps some of you fill out your forms. In other words, every day or partial day you spent hunting in the bush, you could put down as hunting wolves.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Got surveyed for 5 'things' this year including game birds. Killed nothing except a mule deer and that wasn't on the list.

[bownut]

This almost sounds like the old saying "What don't know Won't kill you" If we are spending all this money on data that should be updated knowing there may be a better way then lets get on with it.
If you look at our present system and how it breaks down, improvement are a must.
We all receive this Questionnaire in the new year well after the regular season is over and are asked to fill it out to the best of our knowledge.
Eg. Did you hunt or harvest a animal? Well thats a easy one.
What Units and days spent? Now that can get a little tough to track but I guess a average guess is still a average guess.
I have always filled mine out with the hopes that it will make a difference, but have my doubts.
I fully understand how all those others factors have a big effect on healthy number, but errors are still errors and are not conducive to good
Management Practice.

[GoatGuy]

This almost sounds like the old saying "What don't know Won't kill you" If we are spending all this money on data that should be updated knowing there may be a better way then lets get on with it.
If you look at our present system and how it breaks down, improvement are a must.
We all receive this Questionnaire in the new year well after the regular season is over and are asked to fill it out to the best of our knowledge.
Eg. Did you hunt or harvest a animal? Well thats a easy one.
What Units and days spent? Now that can get a little tough to track but I guess a average guess is still a average guess.
I have always filled mine out with the hopes that it will make a difference, but have my doubts.
I fully understand how all those others factors have a big effect on healthy number, but errors are still errors and are not conducive to good
Management Practice.


It's about consistency over time. Obviously there are some input errors, and errors are ok so long as they are consistent.

Sampling is a process which allows us to get a very good idea of what's going on in a cost effective manner. Sampling is used across scientific disciplines.

The same thought process you are using can be applied to wildlife inventory (aerial flights).

We could take one management unit for moose.

We can do the following:

1) Do a composition flight to get a handle on sex ratios for probably $5K
2) Do a stratified random block to get a population estimate for $30K
3) Fly the whole thing and try to count every moose (we know that won't happen) for $100K or more (probably quite a bit more).

Consider those costs in the provincial perspective. There are about 38,000 moose tags sold = ~$950K/year. Let's say that is your annual moose budget. There are probably 150 management units with moose? Of course those can be supported through dead side data. So the question is where do you want to spend your money? If you wanted to count every moose you would have to take a loan out just to do one of 7 regions of the province.


We don't try to survey every hunter, count every moose same as we don't take a blood sample from every human being on the plane to identify the prevalence of a given disease for two good reasons - money/time. The more you want to tighten up the error your costs will raise incrementally. You could spend all your money trying to identify the prevalence of a disease, or you can spend a fraction of your money on sampling to get a really good idea of what's going on, and the spend the rest on a cure.

As said with electronic licensing we can increase sampling effort or make it mandatory. Either way that won't increase wildlife populations. Truth be told it's more of a displacement activity in the scheme of things. If you're able to keep things up around a CI of 95% and error +-5% you're fine. It would be different if BC had widespread antlerless/female harvest, but we don't. As a result the juice for the squeeze is pretty minimal.


Hope the analogy helps.

[bownut]

Thanks for clarifying the monetary value of studies. I can see how the piggy can get tapped out quickly.
How does widespread antler less/female harvest aid in in increased wildlife populations when we have a limited study base. In a controlled condition male/female ratios may yield good results but you have
already stated that other factors like our high predator/road kill and access are having more of a effect than hunter harvest. Please feel free to enlighten me.
Lets use Region 8 for a simple model. It is probably one of the areas the has a steady increase in opportunity in the past ten years with increased bag limits, antler less seasons, ect.
Is it possible to get the Coles Notes on this area, keep it simple for it is a simple data base that we have to work with correct.
What percent of the provincial hunters hunt in Region 8?
Are the harvest numbers increasing with the increased opportunity?
Are the days spent afield proportionally holding or has it become harder on average to be successful?
Are the user areas becoming more condensed?
We all know that funding has and always will be a problem that wildlife sustainability will be challenged with and it will continue to haunt us.
When the Ministry earmarks large amount of money funding Parks Rangers and giving it the title of Conservation Funding we lose again.
That sharp pencil may not be enough, I think a laser is going to be needed to resolve the management problems.
Thanks for the input.

[Bonz]

well this years is diff. just got mine...dated jan 10..lol
anyways., not 1 animal i bought tags for was on mine. usualy i get asked about my bear hunts, not this year. they wanted my wolf info, whitetail and game birds..whatever those are. i heard of migratory and non migratory. im assuming thats non..like grouse? didnt even buy a fed migratory licence, nor did i buy any whitetail tags, just mules and bear, think ya already know my whitetail hunt. didnt buy a tag so would be zero days and zero punched tag guys. or do they expect me to put i poached a white tail?...lol