Field Judging Goats

[Gus]

Having not been able to glass any goats in the field as of yet, I have just been doing research on the computer in terms of trying to learn the tricks to identify the sex and quality. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on this subject, or even better, if anyone has any pictures of goats they can post like many have been doing when talking about field judging mule deer, that would be great.

[brno375]

Check out the top of page 26 in the Synopsis.

If you find a billy with horns the same length of his face, pull the trigger.

[WoodOx]

Many will probably disagree, but from the hunts i have been on the best way to judge sex is to watch them until they urinate. If your up in the mtns right at dawn, youll have a couple hours to watch any goats prior to bedding, oftentimes theyll take a piss at some point. Nannies will squat, whereas billies will strength. Kind of like dogs.

billies have wider bases, but how you determine that at 1-3km I have no idea.

Length of horn - if its as long as its face get over there, its a cranker!

[blaker_99]

Good post Andrew, as for the length of the horns....rule of thumb i if they are as long as the face pull the trigger. Also just for the record if you miss judge the animal and shoot a Nanny it is still a very unique and rewarding trophy. You better be pumped either way! Good luck with the hunt. What region you get your draw in?

[WoodOx]

I got one in 5, blake.

I believe a nannie holds the record for either longest horns on a goat ever shot, or greatest score (due to length)

[Brambles]

Sorry I don't have a better picture of the billy on my Photobucket right now.
I'm not an expert Goat judge either but I had NO problems telling that this was a Billy, even from a great distance, actually I never seem to have much problem telling them apart.

The section in the synopsis on sexing goats "get you mind out of the gutter" helps quite a bit, read it a couple times and when you see some goats it will all come together

Nanny
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/Brambles77/IMG_0905.jpg

Billy
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/Brambles77/IMG_0922.jpg

[Gus]

I've read over that section in the synopsis, as well as simular information on the internet, and it all sounds good in theory, but thats why I was hoping to see some pics more less to test myself. I've brought up pictures from google but there usually isn't much there to tell me if I'm in fact right on my call or not.


Thanks for the post guys, keep it up.

[Gus]

What region you get your draw in?

7-04 is the region I'll be hunting. I had a draw for this area a few years back but timing between school and work caused my plans to go sideways, and I never got to do any "real" hunting in there.

[Brambles]

The bases on the horns of billies will appear to be almost touching compared to Nanny's, the glands behind the horns are also very visible,

You can see the gradual arc of the billies horn's starting lower down on the horn, The nannies horns will raise up straighter and start to curve more towards the tip.

I could see the glands from miles away but I couldn't see the horns unless he moved his head just perfect, they curve back pretty good. The were very visible once he tucked his chin down. Of course we were below while spotting, I'm sure that makes a big difference on how the horns are viewed

[Gus]

The bases on the horns of billies will appear to be almost touching compared to Nanny's, the glands behind the horns are also very visible,

So those dark spots behind the horns you can see in your picture, nannies dont have that?

[Brambles]

No Nannies don't have them, not that I have seen anyways.

Some billies have larger glands than others, and while some glands are darker than others.
The glands will actually rot the back of the horn away and cause a narrowing at the back, but this is somthing that you can't see unless your skinning him anyways so its useless info

[mark]

I took this goat pic near westbank last year!

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/../photos/data/500/medium/IMGA0033.JPG (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/../photos/showphoto.php?photo=3797&size=big&cat=500)

[WoodOx]

My Guess: billy w/ >5" horns

A baby?

[BCrams]

You'll know you're looking at a big billy goat when you see one! Especially when they're in the 50-56" category.

[Chuck]

Well.......bull moose have moosetaches
And billies have beards.......so just like
people, the females don't have nothing.
Usually.......LOL

[bcmulie]

Here's some info that I pulled together from various sources last year when I had a LEH goat draw. Hope it helps. The link at the end is particularly useful (assuming it still works.

bcmulie




Judging Mountain Goats

As you are probably already aware, mass is extremely important for any horned animal (not nearly as important with antlered game). One thing I use as a reference for goat, antelope and other game judging is a dollar bill. It is exactly 6" in length. I never get caught up with ear or eye comparisons because they can vary so much from animal to animal. As an example a lone 2 year old billy that is off by himself or with a bunch of nannies may appear to be big. He may have larger ears, nose, body than nannies and his horns may appear very massive but in all reality his horns and body have some growing to do. If the same juvenile billy was standing next to an older billy with gigantic body and body parts the juvenile would be dwarfed.


Basically, male goats (billies) have thicker horns with large bases, they taper gradually to a point and generally sweep back in a more uniformed arc. If you see a goat where the bases seem to touch, this is typically a billy. Nannies have more slender horns however they are oftentimes very long - sometimes much longer then billy horns. They tend to flare out when looking straight on and from the profile they seem to hook near the end.
Nannies urinate in a squatting position while an adult billy urinates by stretching. However, we were fooled once by a nice billy goat which squatted to defecate. From a distance it looked like he was urinating. Many people look for a stained rump which often indicates a billy. While this may be the rule in some places, all the goats here were filthy from dust baths and we found this trait unreliable when tying to identify gender.
Generally, a billy goat is much larger than a female. Also, billies tend to be loners and are rarely seen with kids. If you spot what you think is a billy, and there is a kid tagging close by, it is best not to shoot as it is probably a nanny. Also, billies tend to grow hair sooner than nannies and they have a more pronounced hump.


How to Judge Trophies by Horn Size and Appearance

Horn lengths are approximately the same in male and female goats of the same age. Kids grow only short buttons up to one inch long during their first fall. By the time a goat reaches the yearling age class, it has attained over half its expected horn length. Most yearling goats have horns about six inches long, which at a casual glance look much like adult horns. By the time a goat is four years old its horns are 8-9 inches long. Although a goat may live to be ten years old or older, the annual horn growth increments are frequently less than 1/10 inch after the fourth year. The world' s record mountain goat, a male killed in British Columbia in 1949, had 12 inch horns. According to Boone & Crockett's 1993 Records book, the top 25 record goats all had horn lengths greater than 10 inches.

Although horn lengths are difficult to discern, other horn characteristics can be used to differentiate between the two sexes. Males have heavier horn growth, with a greater basal diameter and greater diameter along the entire length of the horn. Female horns are thinner and less massive appearing. Unfortunately, this difference is difficult to distinguish except in larger adults at very close range.

Horn curvature usually differs significantly between males and females. Males exhibit a smooth, even curvature throughout the entire length of the horn. In contrast, horns show their greatest curvature near the tips.

Contagious Ecthyma or "Orf"is a virus which has been found in Southeast Alaska goats. This virus is contained in dark brown or black scabby lesions around the eyes, nose, muzzle, ears, or sex organs of goats and sheep. The virus is contained in the scabs which dry and slough off, and is known to remain active in scabs laying on the ground for at least 30 years. Goats grazing in the area can then pick up the virus through cuts or abrasions. Manifestation of the virus has periodically occurred in goat populations throughout Southeast Alaska and, while not common, is not considered unusual.

Orf does not affect the edibility or quality of goat or sheep meat. However, through contact with the lesions, the disease can be transmitted to humans. The disease manifests itself in humans in the form of small blisters. Although antibiotics have no effect on the virus, symptoms can be treated. The lesions usually clear spontaneously in 2 to 6 weeks with little scarring. Goat hunters are encouraged to wear surgical or rubber gloves when processing harvested goats. Doing so will minimize the likelihood of contacting the virus.


Look for Small Groups at High Elevation
Look for large billies high on the slopes. They are usually found alone or in groups of two or three in steeper, higher elevation country than nannies, kids and young billies. So, if you see groups of more than three goats that are just above the tree or shrub line, they are probably nannies and young animals. Keep climbing to find that big billy.
Key on Large and Stocky Animals
Adult billies can be recognized from a distance because they are larger and stockier than nannies. But, don't depend on size alone because an adult female could be the largest group in a group of nannies, kids and subadults. Look for the other clues in addition to size and shape.
Look for Stained Rumps and Stretching During Urination
As you get closer, you often will see stained hindquarters on billies. Nannies usually do not have this discoloration. Billies will stretch while urinating. Nannies will squat to urinate. Take your time. Watch your goat to see how it behaves.
Watch for Narrow Space between Horns, Large Horn Base, and Gradual Curve in the Horn
The most effective way to identify a billy is by stalking close enough to see the size and shape of the horns. As compared to adult nannies, adult billies have less space between the horns at the base, have larger diameter at the base, and have horns that curve gradually. Nannie horns curve sharply near the end.




A good Billy will have horns over 8 inches long, or 2 ½ times the length of their ears. Thickness or mass is also important, but harder to judge. Goats that have horns that appear short compared to length, but log compared to the length of their ear are probably shooters. Another good measurement system is to compare the horns to the distance between his nostril and the bottom of his eyes. This distance is usually 8-9 inches.


Field Evaluation of Rocky Mountain Goat – Boone & Crockett


If the apparent horn length is visualized as straightened out, and it then approximates the distance from the nostrils to the bottom of the eye, you are looking at a horn length of probably at least 8 , but not over 9 inches. If the same comparison yields an apparent length equivalent to the distance from the nostrils to the ear hole, you are unquestionably looking at a records-class billy, providing his horn tips are not broken and he appears to have a thick base on each horn.

Another useful gauge is the apparent length of the horns compared to the visible length of the ear. For trophy quality, one normally must look for a horn that appears to be 2-1/2 times the visible length of the ear.

Bulk and pure size are then perhaps the final criteria. You are looking for a very old goat in terrain having mineralization to support better-than-average thickness of horns. This will almost never materialize in a breeding billy. Normally the trophy goat will be a loner. What makes this all the more difficult is that outside of the rutting season (late November) one seldom sees a mature billy other than alone or as one of a small group. Since a loner is not necessarily a big mature billy, an assessment of his size, bulk, and apparent horn length is essential to proper identification of a real trophy.



http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/goat/goat_orientation.pdf (http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/goat/goat_orientation.pdf)

[willy442]

BC Mulies post should really help with sizing as over my years of goat hunting I judged length by using the distance between the tip of the nostril and bottom of the eye as 9 inches and found it to be accurate as long as you are looking at mature goats. Be careful on this though because there is a big difference in face length between a 4 year old and a 10 year old.

For sex I always told hunters the two finger method was best. How this is done is hold the top two fingers of your right hand about 1.5 inches apart, straight and stiff, extend arm forward and run up behind goat if bottom finger disappears don't shoot, if bottom finger bends pull trigger.:)

Actually there is a number of ways to tell, one of the best is generally mature billies are by themselves, they may be in the vicinity of others but seldom in groups during hunting season. Usually if you see a lone goat that appears to be mature it's worth getting closer for a better look. Once closer you can look at the curvature of the horn and also the base. Billies will carry their weight over the horn length, where a nanny may appear to have nice weight she will loose it quickly about 1/3 to 1/2 way up the horn and will curve back sharply a couple of inches from the tip. Sex on goats is like aging sheep mistakes are made sometimes due to various circumstances you can only do your best when the time comes. If by mistake you take a nanny don't let devastate you it's still a good trophy and it's the effort you put forth that matters. Good Luck

[Gus]

Thanks bcmulie, lots of good reading in there.

[brad ferris]

i'll throw my two cents in here because i really like this issue.over the last 14 years i've made the right call on 24 billies.and the wrong call on 1 nanny.i agree with most of what has already been stated.i don't put as much stake in whether a goat is alone as some of you.i've seen a fair numberof nannies on their own as well as nannies that appeared to be alone.the one nanny i killed was all alone.compareing the thickness of the horn base with the size of the eye is one thing i rely on heavily.if the horn is the same or smaller than the eye let her live.i also use the scent pads as a good indicator.i've been told nannies can develop a bit of a pad around the back of the base of the horn but i haven't seen it personally.with billies they typicaly become obvious at 4 years old.from a conservation standpoint i don't like to see nannies harvested.but then thats up to the man behind the trigger or drawing the string.i'l leave it at that for now.good hunting



BC Mulies post should really help with sizing as over my years of goat hunting I judged length by using the distance between the tip of the nostril and bottom of the eye as 9 inches and found it to be accurate as long as you are looking at mature goats. Be careful on this though because there is a big difference in face length between a 4 year old and a 10 year old.

For sex I always told hunters the two finger method was best. How this is done is hold the top two fingers of your right hand about 1.5 inches apart, straight and stiff, extend arm forward and run up behind goat if bottom finger disappears don't shoot, if bottom finger bends pull trigger.:)

Actually there is a number of ways to tell, one of the best is generally mature billies are by themselves, they may be in the vicinity of others but seldom in groups during hunting season. Usually if you see a lone goat that appears to be mature it's worth getting closer for a better look. Once closer you can look at the curvature of the horn and also the base. Billies will carry their weight over the horn length, where a nanny may appear to have nice weight she will loose it quickly about 1/3 to 1/2 way up the horn and will curve back sharply a couple of inches from the tip. Sex on goats is like aging sheep mistakes are made sometimes due to various circumstances you can only do your best when the time comes. If by mistake you take a nanny don't let devastate you it's still a good trophy and it's the effort you put forth that matters. Good Luck

[kgriz]

Three years ago I shot a big heavy 10 inch Billy that even the Biologist thought was a big Nanny due to curvature of the horn tips so don't rely on horn morphology. I agree that the easiest way to sex one is to watch for the stretched out urination ( they do this more than one would expect ) or to ID their nuts as they are very large on an old Billy and visible even with heavy coats.

[Mtn Wonderer]

I took a goat last year. My first I was relying on the nannies won't be alone theory It didn't work for me I ended up shooting a nanny, at first I was a little dismayed as I try to be as ethical as possible. I caped the goat and had the inspection done the horns are 7 -7/8" long. I was almost appologizing on inspection but the fellow doing the inspection made me feel much better about it, it kind of turned the whole thing around in my mind. I had the goat mounted it hangs proudly on my wall and to boot I found the eating okay too.

[blaker_99]

Well Mtn Wonderer i am very pleased to hear you found the meat of your goat was tasty..... I have been on several succesful goat hunts over the past few years and we have had maybe 3 our of 9 goats taste alright. For the most part gutting and skinning a old ranchy mamoth of a goat usually it revolting. But then again my last billy was very mild and taste was good to boot.

[Gus]

Lots of good info here, thanks guys. Now, to curve this topic a bit, where would i look to find goats this time of year and into early fall? I have been into this area two or three times now, but I havent had the time to get off the road to do some real scouting. There are many places I can glass from the roads though, but I have yet to see a goat.

[Rubicon500]

How big would you goat experts say these 2 are ??

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Alpine85/goat1.jpg

[Fosey]

The Ministry of Environment has a excellent video called "Is it a Billy or is it a Nanny" There is alot of pictures of goats and with good identification points. I got a copy of it from the regional Biologist in nanaimo, Kim Brunt. You should be able to get it from your local CO or try the Regional Wildlife Biologist. The one big thing I have learned is take your time the goat is probably not going anywhere or he will return and it is hard to judge a solitary goat without something to compare him to.

[boxhitch]

How big would you goat experts say these 2 are ??


I'll go out on a limb and say about 1 m. at the shoulder ??

[Brambles]

I'd say both the Nanny and the billy are between 8 and 10 inches, hows that for ballpark. Shoot the billy and measure after.

[Kitimat Killer]

this goat was only three and half years old
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/777DVC00486.JPG (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=888&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=777)

[boxhitch]

Nice weight o that one, KK. It does have that youthful face.
Last year we took a double-header, two billies together. One was three the other was ten. The old guy had the long horse-face, and was double sized almost everywhere. Hoofs, quarters, cape, scrotum were all massive. Horns on the older one were a whopping 1/2" longer.

[Fisher-Dude]

Hoofs, quarters, cape, scrotum were all massive. Horns on the older one were a whopping 1/2" longer.

You need a big scrotum to hop around on those cliffs all day.

[boxhitch]

You need a big scrotum to hop around on those cliffs all day.
I get by.....

[GoatGuy]

You need a big scrotum to hop around on those cliffs all day.

Is that to be used as a parachute for the old billies on their way down?